And I think people who answered "It's the best we can expect right now" are those living off of the government teat.

His budget assumes things will eventually get better....what if they don't?????

It's a selfish move to make our children bear the burden of these costs just so that we can feel more financially comfortable now...we should have to suffer the pain, so that we can appreciate all that we once had.

Unfortunately, I think the Obama administration WANTS things to get much worse so that we will bend to his will of complete government control and everyone is a government teat-sucker...that way he'll have a one-party system of socialism/communism.

Be very afraid. What the government regulates it can also ration. expect higher abortion rates, crowded ER's as illegals, druggies and losers rush for more free healthcare.

The working class is really being screwed by the Obama Administration. No surprise, he promised change and none of the press asked what that meant. We who opposed him knew without asking, socialism and class warfare.

Medicare is a single payer system with some portion not covered so we have additional insurance to cover the part that Medicare doesn't cover. I would agree that underweight and premature children should be saved if medically possible. I do not agree that overweight people should get joint replacements until they lose weight; it is just throwing good money after bad and the new joint won't hold up. One of the reasons for bad joints is excess weight. Up until recently, 50% of the bankrupcies in the United States were due to people not being able to pay their medical bills. We need a signgle payer, universal health care system and we could pattern it after Medicare.

Why did Congress not permit Medicare to negociate prices for drugs? Is it because the drug companies give so much money to the campaigns? How much do the drug companies spend on TV? "Ask your doctor if __— is right for you!" I can get the my drugs in Canada at a much lower cost and they are the same drugs as in the US because Canada has negociated lower costs. England has lower drug costs. So does Australia, New Zealand, Israel, etc. Many drugs are not even manufactured in the United States but overseas and then imported by the drug companies.

We spend three times as much for health care as Canada yet they have a longer average life span. I don't care for the Canadian system necessarily, we should look at all the systems. We are the only industrialized country that I know of that does not have universal health.

The difference between insurance companies and government input is dramatic. Insurance companies and their paid sycophants are profiteers. Look at their balance sheets over the last several years. Government does not need to start deciding as much as it needs to regulate medical practice decisioning, and unwarranted sharing of private medical information. The medical/pharmaceutical insurance industry is the second worse colluding, price-fixing cartel industry in the world, next to oil companies.

There is a huge difference between what doctors say they are charging, and what they actually get paid by insurance companies. Take a close look at your Explanation of Benefits.

AARP already has assurances that Medicare won't be affected in the new budget. Remember, Obama has the ability to send the budget back for revisions before he signs it.

The problem remains with the neo-cons and wealthy not wanting to pay their fair share. I can't blame them for throwing a fit - but NOW the American People deserve a break from the domination of the GOP and their buddies in the Banking, Wall St., Auto, Oil industries.

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation… You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931-2005

I can't say it better than that!

Truly excellent comment. I agree 101%!

Beautiful

Bob, if you want socialist healthcare, you should do better research. Universal healthcare and Welfare nearly destroyed New Zealand economically. In Canada, it compels their citizens to come here for critical operations because of the extremely long waiting periods. Do I even need to mention the horrendous condition of hospitals in Russia? Yes sir, Universal Healthcare will solve alot, mostly overpopulation. The Funeral and Casket industries should fare nicely soon.

This comment is 100% accurate. And now we get to sit back and watch as things get far worse then they have ever been, at the habds of the democrats.

"It's the best we can do"???? Since when is putting more fuel on a fire the way to put it out??? How in the world can anyone believe this guy when he says that he's cutting the deficit in half while tripling it in the first month in office? Are adult Americans really that stupid? Or is this just showing that the strengths that built America are now gone and we're nothing but leaches now.

Fisherman grow up!!! There are many people in this world who chose to work hard and make their own way in life and then there are those who do not. Those who do not want to punish those who work hard because they "feel" like they deserve the same treatment; and they do not.

No matter what you want to say about the people who make millions of dollars a year they worked hard to get where they are at today; very few of them relied on their parents money to get there. I know that the company I worked for right out of college I worked longer hours than any union member and so did everyone else in upper management and we were rewarded for our hard work.

The difference between the rich and the poor is that the rich CHOOSE to work hard while they are young while the poor CHOOSE not to work as hard while they are young and suffer for the rest of their lives.

I chose to work hard and earn the money and scholarships I needed to go to college and then work hard while I was in college so that I could get a great job. I then worked hard and saved all my money at my job so that i could pay for law school where I worked hard so I could be at the top of my class so that when I got out of school I would make over $100,000 starting out (A goal of mine since i was young). I then worked hard and paid for my wife to go through law school and helped her study so that she too would get good grades and could work for the same firm as I (So we could save on money driving to work and only need one car). As a family we make well over $250,000/year and now we have Obama telling us that we have to pay 39.6% of our income to the government, which is just barely over $100,000 a year, so that someone who does not work half as hard as i do can go to the doctor or get food stamps? I am not happy about this and I am not afraid to tell anyone that I come in contact with.

I am paying more in taxes than most people make in year and I would not consider myself to be wealthy enough to do that. My wife and I share a car, well a minivan, we live in a modest house (2300 sq ft), we have yet to get a digital TV and do not have cable, we have two kids that are in school who earn an allowance ($) for doing all thier chores and we are able to afford a vacation once every other year to somewhere within driving distance.

I love to sit around and think about all that I could do with the extra money if they would just lower my taxes but hey why should I get the money when there is someone out there who does not work as hard as I do getting the money, right?

Please, don't feel sorry for me, that is not what I am asking at all; just look at this from another point of view, the point of view of someone close to the bottom of the highest tax bracket that has to shoulder all of this responsibility. Also, I will work hard to figure out how to lower my tax bracket so I don't have to pay that much.

Thank you for your comment Dan! In a smaller scale, I have friends in Canada who come to the states to buy Advil because they can't buy it in Canada. They have told me that the only over the counter meds they have are tylenol and bayer. I would hate to live somewhere that I could not buy my medical products that I take for granted because they are government controlled.

Not true, that is the most ignorant response I've ever heard. So you really think the poor don't try to work hard? Theyv'e got it harder buddy. Scholarships and opportunities for the lower classes are slowly diminishing due to GOP agenda which I can say is not education.

Are adult Americans really that stupid? You betcha!!! And it is a crying shame.

Having worked in medical mgmt for 27 yrs, I can tell you that insurance companies are crippling business with staggering premium increases and high deductibles, forcing many to cut these benefits. Insurance companies care about profit, not people. Medicare is non-profit, does not practice medicine, and the best we have right now. They do not deny care or claims that are medically necessary. People who are uninsured are unable to afford or obtain coverage due to ins. companies "cherry picking" only the healthiest. Payroll deductions, matched by employers (same as Medicare & Social Security) would be far cheaper & provide coverage for the majority of Americans.

Eileen V, you must be kidding me right (otherwise, I'd love to have some of what you are smoking)! Do you not realize that once government gets their smelly hands into the health care industry that health care delivered will be rationed. Rationing will cause long waits for treatment. So if you need that MRI, expect to wait possibly months to get it. Do you want some stinky beaurocrat in Washington to decide the fate of your health (or your family's) and not your family doctor. I don't. Anything run by the gov't will always be run incompetently and inefficiently. That's the only way gov't knows how to manage ANYTHING! As for Canada and Great Britain, I believe you need to do a little more research before you hand out gold stars for their socialized medical systems.

By fair share, do you expect the rich to pay a higher percentage of their income? If so, how is that fair? I agree there is a segment of the wealthy that have not earned their wealth, but what about all those who have? Generalizations and stereotypes only divide our country. Can you really blame the bankers, brokers, car makers, and oil companies. Or do all those who lived beyond their means, bought houses they couldn't afford, trying to make "easy" money, spending equity like it was an an ATM, and those who bid house prices up to 50,000 above asking price share in the blame? I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican so don't think my response is a partisan rebuttal. Stop looking to the government to fix this problem. The end result will be economic cannibalism.

I think this is very frightening for us and our grandchildren. This is terrible for our economy and our well-being.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you believe the VA hospitals count as working socialized medicine you have a very different definition of "working" than I do. Being underfunded, unable to properly support those the VA hospitals were designed to support, and constantly under scrutiny for deplorable hospital conditions does not qualify as "working" when it comes to me and medical needs.

I deal with insurance companies every day. They suck. They deny just claims. They have extravagant administrative expense. They care only about their profit and not your health. And the whole system is way more expensive than it needs to be or would be under a universal health care system. You are just wrong, and your position is based on ideological horse manure, not real data. The other countries in the industrialized world maintain universal health care because it works, not because it doesn't work. They have had it for generations. We are the only ones who cling to the idea that it is wrong, and the result is that we have the most expensive and inefficient health care in the world, and even with all of our technology we produce the worst medical results in the industrialized world. Start looking at the facts and not just right wing propaganda.

Where are you getting your source from? Have you not spoken with people from other countries such as England where the Dr.'s are given bonuses if their patients get healthier and need less care? That's the type of medical care we need in this country and the sooner we get it the sooner those of us who DO have medical coverage won't have to pay for those who DON'T with our taxes and then maybe more can be put towards education.

Who the hell was it that said, this past Tuesday, that Americans need to be more responsible?

Oh yeah! MR. Obama. You know what, MR. Obama, I DON'T NEED YOU TO TELL ME HOW TO BE RESPONSIBLE!!!

Especially from someone who doesn't KNOW THE MEANING of the word! HOW DARE YOU! Why don't you people in WDC throw out some coins for the slackards YOU think I should pay for. How about I send my doctor bills to the White House c/o MR. Obama? Better yet, why don't I just work my 60 hours a week, flip my paycheck over, sign my name and mail it to you? YOU PAY FOR EVERYTHING I NEED!!!

Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't realize that's what you're aiming for to begin with.

Socialised medicine does not work, I work in health care so I can see the differences. What makes the dems think it will work here if it does not work in other countries. Why do people from other counties come here for thier health care ?

We've already got an examples of government run universal health care - Military Health Care and the Veterans Administration. The VA does what it can but a lot of care is rationed and the system costs a lot more than it should for what it delivers. In the Military Health Care a lot of military members pay out of pocket for some things because of the poor care that they get for free.

This is a bad idea that the American people have rejected time and time again. It's time again.

"Sorry buddy, I know your infection is sever and your nearly septic, but your coverage is lapsed so....go on home now. Here's the number for the undertaker, or you can try your luck in the ER for 9 or 10 hours."

andee, currently as it stands in America, if you go to the emergency room, insurance or note, you will get treated, and alot faster than your ancedotal evidence suggests. The US ER is in fact faster than other countries, though it is still to slow for my tasts

"Show me one doctor that doesn't want to be paid for services rendered, and then try and justify why all Americans should NOT be able to get good affordable coverage."

I don't totaly disagree with the idea of spreading coverage, however, the idea the goverment subsidised health coverage is more affordable is simply not true. You are merely shifting the cost from the individual to the taxpayer. Making healthcare more affordable requires two things, one, that the industry finds way to become more efficient, and two, better personal decisions by we Americans. Currently, the major health problems, heart attacks, diabeties, etc, in the this country are 'luxury' health problems, we suffer from conditions and diseases associated with poor living choices, not because of a lack of healthcare in this country.

My advice to you is to stop listening to NPR and actually listen to the critics of Universal Healthcare, they are not wholly right, however, they bring up a very important point that is too often brushed aside. HOW IS IT GOING TO BE PAID FOR? The US already faces the explosion of Social Security and Medicaid in this century because of too money people recieving and not enough people putting money into these programs. Simply saying tax the rich is no real answer.

Fisherman grow up!!! There are many people in this world who chose to work hard and make their own way in life and then there are those who do not. Those who do not want to punish those who work hard because they "feel" like they deserve the same treatment; and they do not.

No matter what you want to say about the people who make millions of dollars a year they worked hard to get where they are at today; very few of them relied on their parents money to get there. I know that the company I worked for right out of college I worked longer hours than any union member and so did everyone else in upper management and we were rewarded for our hard work.

The difference between the rich and the poor is that the rich CHOOSE to work hard while they are young while the poor CHOOSE not to work as hard while they are young and suffer for the rest of their lives.

I chose to work hard and earn the money and scholarships I needed to go to college and then work hard while I was in college so that I could get a great job. I then worked hard and saved all my money at my job so that i could pay for law school where I worked hard so I could be at the top of my class so that when I got out of school I would make over $100,000 starting out (A goal of mine since i was young). I then worked hard and paid for my wife to go through law school and helped her study so that she too would get good grades and could work for the same firm as I (So we could save on money driving to work and only need one car). As a family we make well over $250,000/year and now we have Obama telling us that we have to pay 39.6% of our income to the government, which is just barely over $100,000 a year, so that someone who does not work half as hard as i do can go to the doctor or get food stamps? I am not happy about this and I am not afraid to tell anyone that I come in contact with.

I am paying more in taxes than most people make in year and I would not consider myself to be wealthy enough to do that. My wife and I share a car, well a minivan, we live in a modest house (2300 sq ft), we have yet to get a digital TV and do not have cable, we have two kids that are in school who earn an allowance ($) for doing all thier chores and we are able to afford a vacation once every other year to somewhere within driving distance.

I love to sit around and think about all that I could do with the extra money if they would just lower my taxes but hey why should I get the money when there is someone out there who does not work as hard as I do getting the money, right?

Please, don't feel sorry for me, that is not what I am asking at all; just look at this from another point of view, the point of view of someone close to the bottom of the highest tax bracket that has to shoulder all of this responsibility. Also, I will work hard to figure out how to lower my tax bracket so I don't have to pay that much.

This guy above is one of the more intelligent people on this blog. All of his comments were spelled correctly. He used correct punctuation even. Hmmm.... perhaps it's because he has an education & really apparently knows what's about to happen to our Country.

If you even do the math on the tax bracket he's in & see how much $ he gets to keep AFTER taxes, perhaps you'd get what he's talking about. I'm guessing he lives in a high density city where real estate costs a ridiculous over-inflated price & sucks up a LOT of his monthly income. I've lived in NJ & it is ridiculous too!

So, you want to "be human" and bash the "rich" people as you call them. Grow up. The ones that worked hard to actually be something & get an education deserve to keep more of what they earn. You people that chose to "stay home with the kids" - and I am a woman, so I can say this- Grow up. If you're CHOOSING to live on a one income family lifestyle- that is YOUR choice. Learn to live with the choices YOU make and deal with it.

There is NO reason that any of us that make better choices or earn more money need to support you people that choose to live off others- I lived that too from my ex-husband (LEACH!)

So, in short- Learn to be self supporting. I don't want to pay for all of you people that are leaches or the illegal immigrants (yes- ILLEGAL) that barge into the country bankrupting all the hospitals & the social security system & creating violence among the US.

Call me heartless- as many of you will. I say grow up & be responsible for yourself and your families.

Socialized medicine in Canada is costing them 16% federal sales tax on everything and they are not getting the preventative care we get in our country at all.

Taxing the Rich to give to the poor only stiffles productivity. Why work hard if someone else gets your money? Frankly, it will drive businesses out of this country even faster. Our labor costs are already too high to compete and if you take away the business's incentive to stay here then they will leave and take they equipment & jobs with them. China will just get more of our jobs or Mexico. Obama has a lot to learn about the long term results of such actions.

This massive deficit budget will bankrupt our country and the foreign investors will foreclose.

Anyone who pays taxes and doesn't sit on their butt is going to be stuck for this. Even the welfare people haven't got a chance of not paying when they go buy their cigarettes and gasoline. It will come to the government putting a Fed Sales Taxes on everything just to pay for the Stimulus Plan without all the rest of this. It won't stop at the rich paying for it when they drain them they'll head right down the income line. It will destroy the middle class entirely.

I agree - we need to send a clear message that this will not be tolerated - we need to flush the congress and senate of Democrats - force the left to govern closer to the center - this level of "sky is falling" politics....only to push a social agenda is sickening....confidence is causing this crisis.....and yet he continues to nay say the economy - only to push his left wing agenda....we need balance....the country is spinning because of his nonsense

ever watch the michael moore movie "sicko"?our healthcare industry in this country is a disaster and if we keep listening to these republican idiots and don't start providing healthcare for our people(yes universal health care--i'm sick and tired paying a fortune for co-payments while the billion dollar insurance industry doesn't give a you know what and keeps raking in the big bucks off of the sick and needy).i'm sick of people that have the "pick yourself up by your own bootstraps"mentality--that's what's wrong with this country--SELFISHNESS!!!

If you think about what government controls I think you will have a hard time finding anything that they do effeciently. Giving government the control of my health is very stupid. As far as socialized medicine goes, I have traveled all over the world (to include extensive travel to Canada) and everyone thinks that our U.S. system is better. Why are you mad tht doctors, nurses, hospital executives, drug companies, etc. make money? What do you do for a living? Should the government control your line of work because you make a profit? Don't be mad because someone makes a decent living.

Lets also speak of another reason that health care is so expensive. The law firm of We Fleece Them & Howe. How would like to work in a profession that the likely hood of someone sueing you for being human is daily worry. Don't get me wrong, neglegence needs to be dealt with but come on everyone makes mistakes. The payday that greedy lawyers get from these mistakes is one of the main factors in the cost of today healhcare.

I just had a scary thought. If we go to Government run universal health care does that mean the Federal government will have to subsidize the poor attorneys that will loose out on all of the lawsuits.

I know that we have been conditioned to be afraid of everything and believe all the fear tactics that is directed at us who diet on basically nothing but political soundbites, but it is not true that the insurance company has independent radiologist and other experts that determine the cost...they have "hired help" that is inclined to protect the interest of the insurance company that determines the cost and that is why a lot of people that needs medical attention does not "qualify" for it or it is deemed "not necessary" under our current system of medicine.

It is a scare tactic that would suggest the government is the one that determines whether or not someone receives medical attention...the mechanism of having medical records placed on computer systems is to ensure that less mistakes are made...have you ever tried to decipher a doctor or nurse handwriting? I for one recognize that we are living in exrtraordinary times and that demands unique solutions.

We are in a crisis. If one house catch on fire...the individual may not appreciate the firemen coming in and breaking out the windows and flooding their house and furniture with water...but guess what...it was necessary to stop the flames from causing more damage to possession and possibly lives. What part about being in a crisis YOU don't get...those that complain and want to continue doing the same old tired "cut taxes" mentailty that has helped us arrive at the lane of disater in the first place.

This is not a democrat or republican plan to regain health...this is what most economist on both sides of the spectrum recommends who are being pragmatic as oppose to just being idealogical. We had eight years of philosophy that ran the country into the ground...I personally welcome pragmatism into the discussion and conversation for we need practical dreamers....one that can harbor hope but does not allow unreasonable ideas to block results.

Now maybe those that elected Bush will finally see what kind of MESS his administration left this country in.

Way to go "sick and tired in Ohio!" Being responsible, or rather not being responsible, seems to be the norm. Individuals who tried to live beyond their means were a big part of the housing mess. Now we have a federal government that thinks they can spend their way out of this mess. Let's start acting fiscally responsible in this country, and lets start with ourselves, and tell our elected officials to do the same. If the Federal Government would enact a "Reagan" style approach to the economic problems we now face, i.e., lower business taxes, decrease the depreciation schedules for new plant, property and equipment, incentivise businesses to hire new employees, create new programs to help start up businesses grow and expand, and start shrinking the size of government vs. growing it, we would soon start to dig our way out of this mess.

We have a foreign exchange student from Denmark. Keep in mind Denmark has 5 million people. The US has what 380 million. In Denmark, you have to have a state issued ID card to get anything. Health care, education, to vote-get the idea. The state provides all health care, education, vacations and other social programs. All post secondary education programs are at least 4 years. In other words, if you want to be a welder, you spend 4 years in school. There is no incentive to get out and work. The tax rate is 40 to 50%. Most of this being paid by 1 man who is a billionaire. When Denmark started discussing tax increase he threatened to leave. What happerns when he dies, I don't know.

My point is this, it works for 5 million people. We have 380,000,000. What government program including social security, medicare, medicade that the US has developed has not become a logistical, black hole nightmare. Liberals would have to understand that illegals would need to be deported. All legal residents obtain their valid ID card-no matter what the inconvenience.

In Denmark, you do not receive medical care without a card, to get a card, you have to prove you are a legal resident.

Do I sound anti-immigration? Well I'm not. My ancestors immigrated to the US. But they came through legal channels. Assimulated into society. Illegals cost 350,000,000 dollars a year. Deport them all and you go a long way to recovering short falls.

Oh, and the banks and wallstreet jerks that got bail-out money and mismanaged it, I say let's send them to Gitmo. Another note about the bailout: We gave all this money to banks, wall street, GM, Chrysler, etc., and the states are holding out their greedy paws, yet in almost every situation we left the same people in charge that created the problems in the first place. What's wrong with this picture?

I agree that insurance companies are part of the problem. But the hospitals, drug companies, and doctors are most of the problem. They are all out to make the most money they can and if it wasnt for the insurance companies negotiating costs for procedures, we would all be paying more to the docs and hospitals. Take a look at your EOB for any procedure that you have done. Now if you have insurance, you will see that there is a section that shows what the doctors and hospitals want you to pay (and for those who dont have insurance, will be paying). Now look next to it and you will see that there is a section for allowed amount. That is normally 5-20% less than what the doctors and hospitals want. That is what those of us who have insurance pay. What needs to happen is that the insurance companies along with the federal govt need to regulate what the hospitals and doctors can charge. I think that doctors, good doctors, should make good money. I dont think that they should make enough that they can build that 10,000 sq ft house on the hill and drive the BM'er to work while the wife takes the kids to school in her new Lincoln Navigator but that is just my opinion. I dont think that the BoD of a hospital should all make 6 figures for sitting around deciding what services are going to cost and what new wing they are going to build on to the hospital next year.

The insurance companies are not perfect but they are the only ones standing between us and the extravagent costs that the docs, hospitals, and drug companies want to charge us. Oh, and btw, most Blue Cross/Blue Shields run on very tight budgets and can only pay out small bonuses if they meet very stringent goals. Plus most of them are just a 'manager' of the insurance policies that are set by your companies. I work for the State of Montana and our insurance is self funded. The state decides what will be covered and what wont. They rely on the BC/BS to negotiate costs with the medical fields and manage our plan. Its not perfect but I am glad that they are a stop gap against the docs, hospitals, and drug companies and their outrageous profits. The feds can help but if they are put in charge, they will 'F' it all up. Guaranteed!

This guy above is one of the more intelligent people on this blog. All of his comments were spelled correctly. He used correct punctuation even. Hmmm.... perhaps it's because he has an education & really apparently knows what's about to happen to our Country.

If you even do the math on the tax bracket he's in & see how much $ he gets to keep AFTER taxes, perhaps you'd get what he's talking about. I'm guessing he lives in a high density city where real estate costs a ridiculous over-inflated price & sucks up a LOT of his monthly income. I've lived in NJ & it is ridiculous too!

So, you want to "be human" and bash the "rich" people as you call them. Grow up. The ones that worked hard to actually be something & get an education deserve to keep more of what they earn. You people that chose to "stay home with the kids" - and I am a woman, so I can say this- Grow up. If you're CHOOSING to live on a one income family lifestyle- that is YOUR choice. Learn to live with the choices YOU make and deal with it.

There is NO reason that any of us that make better choices or earn more money need to support you people that choose to live off others- I lived that too from my ex-husband (LEACH!)

So, in short- Learn to be self supporting. I don't want to pay for all of you people that are leaches or the illegal immigrants (yes- ILLEGAL) that barge into the country bankrupting all the hospitals & the social security system & creating violence among the US.

Call me heartless- as many of you will. I say grow up & be responsible for yourself and your families.

Oh for Pete's sake! Get off your high horse. And just how long; do you think, your better educated a@@ would stay nice and clean? Do you honestly believe that the middle and upper class have been cleaning the sewers and hauling the trash that all of you like to create and not take credit for?

How would you handle it if we all made better choices; received more education so we could always use correct grammar, spelling and punctuation, and you had to do all those distasteful, disgusting and filthy jobs that you decided were beneath you to yourselves?

That is the one thing all you people seem to conveniently forget when you talk about the people that would benefit from some of these programs. They are the ones that need to be taken care of the most... because they are the ones that you forget are taking care of you and your loved ones. NOT the sensationalized few that take advantage of everything.

Hey Nan, ever been to a VA hospital? they get the bottom of the barrel for talented doctors, have little resources and are heavy on administrative costs. 60 minutes story on Chillicothe Ohio's VA found the patients being dry shaved due to no shaving cream. Walter Reed had mold growing on the walls. Canada has people coming over to Detroit in droves due to waiting lists for CT scans and my personal favorite an 8 month wait for prostate cancer surgery. Maybe the great reviews for the Canadian system are due to the dead tell no tales.

I don't think we should just flush out the Democrats, I think we need to flush out the entire government as a whole and start over with new people that have fresh ideas on how to solve this situation we are in....not with the agendas of the ancient Teddy Kennedy and the John McCain's (even though I voted for him). We need to take control of our govenment and it is our civic duty to do so because it is our children and their children's futures we are talking about.

At this point, I am giving Obama the benefit of the doubt that his plan will work even though in my heart it is only telling me his bridge to recovery will go down in flames. Why Obama is deciding to tax the backbone of the US is beyond me...most of the people making $250k or more are small business owners that create employment opprotunities. How is taxing them going to pay down the debt AND increase the number of jobs in our economy? I don't see this working at all. To me, it is un-American and a share-the-wealth socialist idea.

We need to hit a reset button and start over.

We've tried it the Repub way for the last 8 years. Look where the country is now.

We voted for change for a reason.

Little did I know that Obama’s message of “Change” meant a change from the world’s only superpower to weak European Socialism…

This smooth-talking communist will not get my vote again.

"

I don't think we should just flush out the Democrats, I think we need to flush out the entire government as a whole and start over with new people that have fresh ideas on how to solve this situation we are in....not with the agendas of the ancient Teddy Kennedy and the John McCain's (even though I voted for him). We need to take control of our govenment and it is our civic duty to do so because it is our children and their children's futures we are talking about. "

Lets face it, we are all just sitting here giving out opinions on what we think but most, if not all of us will do nothing more that voice our opinion or complain to others. Americans are lazy. We want to be taken care of. Heck, that is why we have so many poor people (not that all of them are lazy, some have bad luck or are in a poor social area) and illegal immigrents. They want to be taken care of. But hey, go to any south western state and you will see that the Mexicans are doing all the crap jobs that lazy Americans dont want to do. Working the fields, roofing you 300,000 house, taking away your garbage.

You want to help the US of A, set term limits for all Congressman. That way, we all could have the ability to have a say and you would have a fresh perspective from the junior congressman that enter the house or senate. Make government smaller. Make your 300 lb son or daughter get off their a$$ and lose weight and work harder. There are lots of things that can be done, but we Americans are lazy and like to complain instead of doing something about the problem.

Now if you'll excuse me, I am goint back to sleep and thinking of things to complain about instead of doing my job, that I am lucky to have. God bless the Lazy States of America.

It makes me upset to read the majority of these comments on this blog. From comments like "people are only wealthy cause they work hard and poor cause the chose not to work hard" to "our country is loosing the last bit of freedom that we have". I am a US Military and have seen my share of US troops that have struggled to make ends meet and have bust their butts not only serving their country but also taking care of their own families. Sometimes I find myself wondering if its all worth it. After over 15 years of service I have seen our country turn into a bunch of winy baddies. The rich scream socialism and the poor can't get enough of feeding off the system. Well where is the happy medium??

In regards to comments. There are a lot of individuals that strive to be successful and work really hard to make their dreams come true. But the sad truth is that we want to believe that every oppertunity is available to every American but it's not! While working as a recruiter for the Air Force I was required to review the ASVAB scores (an academic test required by all military branches before entry) for all schools within my zone. I was very surprised to see that my inner city schools that where majority black could not pass the test with a minimum score required to join and my upper class schools that were majority white scored well above average. Of course I don't believe that any race is smarter then the other but do you really believe that those separate group of kids are getting the same opportunities. I had a student from one of the inner city schools got a full medical scholarship to VCU and could not keep up with the workload cause he was not prepared academically. He stated that he felt that is to at least 2 years behind the other students.

Who failed him? He worked hard and did is part but the school systems failed him. This is not uncommon amongst many American children. Obama's plan I admit has some issues but there are a lot of good thing that can come from it. Improving our school system is one of them.

The bottom line is we will only know the impact of this bill years from now, either it be good or bad. Maybe our economic state needs to get worst so the US as a whole can come back down to reality and stop this out of control spending.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

Well if some one is over weight the replacement won't work. Even in our medical care system people won't do the surgery until you drop some weight. It is the smart thing to do. But not triing to save babies is wrong no matter how you look at it.

The last eight years of the so called "republican" way were actually six years and two years of the democrats. Grow up america, it is not republican vs. democrat as there are good and bad ideas on both sides of the isle. It is more a question of how you tax and spend. Do you really think that by taxing the so called "rich", (a moving target as pointed out by the fact that so many democrats couldn't agree on the same number), is going to solve our problems? The truly wealthy folks will adjust and figure some way to not pay all the taxes. By the way, have you met any poor congressmen or senators? We can not tax a few to pay for the many and expect the few to continue to work and pay for those who do not.

For anyone who made comments that Canadians prefer the American health care system, I think your information is incorrect. I pay nothing a month for my health care. If I decide that I want to leave my current job and pursue a new career, or go back to school, I can do so without worrying that I'll be left with no coverage. I can't even imagine how horrible it would be to have the fear of losing my coverage hanging over my head all the time. I don't know how you handle it.

Also, to the person who said that you can't get Advil in Canada, don't be ridiculous. That's all I use, and it's been readily available here for as long as I can remember.

Carol, I've been on Medicare for about 5 years, now, and have yet to have the Feds tell me what doctors to go to or what knid of trearment I need, and I have had a broken legg, two hip replacements (now I can walk!) a perforated ulcer and a bowel obstriction surgery. I used to be quite the athlete and adhere to the so-called Mediterranean diet, do not drink or smoke (quit years ago) and don't use drugs except what the doctor prescribes (and she is a believer in letting the body heal itself as much as possible, so she doesn't hand out RX's like candy) I don't know what happened to me, having been so healthy most of my life, but thank God for Medicare! Otherwise, we could well be on the streets, at the age of 62. Actually, I feel better now since my leg healed than I have for years, once I got the new hips and my gut straightened out, thanks to Medicare and some great doctors (whom I chose or was referred to by my GP.

The insurance companies will try and scare everyone away from Universal care because their profits are at risk, but they cannot avoid this truth: We spend twice as much --16% of GNP vs. 8% of GNP for Canada, and do not have better health, outcomes or longevity. As a retired physician, I am strongly in favor of Universal Health Coverage. If everyone had a doctor, and full coverage, they wouldn't end up in an emergency room at a cost to society of $500 for treatment of "the flu."

Captain Marvelous said,

"Be very afraid. What the government regulates it can also ration. expect higher abortion rates, crowded ER's as illegals, druggies and losers rush for more free healthcare. The working class is really being screwed by the Obama Administration. No surprise, he promised change and none of the press asked what that meant. We who opposed him knew without asking, socialism and class warfare."

That's because they didn't want to know. It was more sexy to fall in love with the idea of Obama being the president instead of commonsense, and Sen. McCain was the wrong choice for a Republican representative making it worse, but unfortunately for this country, commonsense doesn't exist any more. Obama is one of the main reason why we are in this mess. Can we say Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae? He benefited very much from all of these sub-prime mortgages that should never had been giving to people who couldn't afford them. The funny thing is that while everyone was blaming President Bush, which much of it was deserved, Obama and some other members of the Democratic Party (no names needed) were taking advantage of the opportunity to make things worse without taking the blame. What fools most of us are for listening to mainstream media and not trusting commonsense. Many people elected this man and now we will have to endure the twisted ideas that he is bring forth. And to make it worse, people liked to laugh at President Bush, I was one of them, and now they think that President Obama is so smart. I now realize that's a joke at best, but the joke is actually on us. Oh well, we had a good run in this country, and if we don't make some major changes to start slowly correcting the disasters of the last two administrations, the good times will be over all in the name of greed and certain people's own private agendas. Pray, really pray.

Get ready to wait months to see a specialist. Cancer pt. are going to have a hard time.

Population control for the weak & old. One way to fix Social Sec.

Gosh: How silly! Where was your comment all the time before this last election when 5 trillion of debt was piling up? Obama wasnt the US President during the last eight years when the top 5% of our population was transferred the greatest share of wealth from our stressed economy! We have to fix this situation, and that is only fair to make these adjustments and for that already benefited population to sacrifice too.

The insurance companies have raped its insured and it is well documented that many of these companies have taken steps in denying claims for profit that justify convictions for murder if charges were filed! Open your eyes and look where this nation is headed in raises taxes to cover the rising costs of healthcare that already outgrows the nation's income. Somebody has to do something to stop and make changes or you wont have any access to healthcare at any price.

Holy Mother of God. 4 Trillion dollar budget? DAMN I want a check book like that. So when you start bouncing checks in your own personal account, do you go out writing ones for millions of dollars? Hell no, you look at what you are doing and pare back. It is wise to invest in teh future but you have to have money to invest- that is basic Enon 101. When you are broke , you don't go buying the Brooklyn Bridge - and I think that is what we are being sold.

I think alot of people are misinformed, or just don't read for themselves. We should have been afraid for the past eight years. Obama is spending money to get the country out of the HELL HOLE that Bush has gotten it into. Only a fool would tax non-wealthy people. Fortunately, we no longer have a fool for a president. Taxes will be raised if your income is $250,000 and above. We non-wealthy people have nothing to fear but fear itself.

This is a lie. Show me the statistics of that. In the UK, Canada, Sweden, Denmark, and well...EVERY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY they make sure that all are taken care of. Have a certain standard of taking care of everyone, and if you want the extras the insurance companies can create a supplemental insurance.

And stop advertising on TV for erection pills and medicines! This multi-billion dollar industry forces the prices for medicines they advertise to inflate to unreal prices, while the insurance companies walk away from paying for them.

Sick and tired in Ohio nailed in. Be honest enough, be adult enough to live gratefully and happily within your means. Accept the lifestyle that you have CHOSEN to provide for yourself. We each make our own bed and should sleep well in it!

Here in Illinois we have expanded government health care to cover more people and it has bankrupted he state. More important the fee schedule makes certain procedures impractical for many providers, the fallacy that the recipients get what they need is just that, the government decides what every procedure is worth and how often one can receive benefits. They can arbitrarilyreduce or deny benefits and pay providers when they feel like it and put enormous pressure on their financial picture. The myth of socialized medicine is the patient will not just get what they want or need on the spot, it just doesn't work that way. Rationing will become a fact of life for everyone just as now it is for many who rely on government administrated plans. I am not convinced that government involvement will solve the problems.

Have you ever lived in a socialist country? I grew up in Norway, which has a much higher standard of living than the USA. By the way, my parents were American missionaries, for you right wing nut jobs about to tell me to go back to "my country".

Rich socialist countries take better care of their people than we do. Poor socialist countries take better care of their people than poor capitalist countries, which are the most miserable he!!holes on the planet.

Health care is a human right, like food and clean water and a safe, decent dwelling. If all that means the CEOs have to make do with $55 million a year instead of $60 million, well, I can't say I feel very sorry.

We need lower cost medical care. Hospitals should be made taxpayer owned /non-profit with all tests given for a small fee. Supplies,drugs and such aquired from lowest cost suppliers that would serve as a single point for billing in a single bill instead of getting bills for six months from tens of different places. Malpractice laws need to be changed to make problems be heard by a expert panel instead of by a jury and severely limit any awards. Americans need to begin to understand that everyone has to die from something and sometimes it is not in the best interest of everyone to save everyone... like new born defect babies and the chronicly ill that will require a high level of care for a long time. Personally, I do not take any medicine that is not generic as one,I cannot afford it, and why would the treatment that was prescribed ten years ago as a new drug now generic not work today as well?

So, how many children do you have with type diabetes?

We should have stopped "saving' grossly underweight premature babies along time ago. It is not natural and it is bankrupting our country and our childrens future. Get a grip on the realities of life.

Ronwell,

I don't know where you are from but our local hospital is non profit...Also it's loosing money left and right...The ER is loaded with non paying patinents.

John-338580,

That was one of the most idiotic statements i have ever read...You must be a fatherless person and don't know the joys of being a parent..

You should get a grip on the relities of life...All life is worthy of saving...

I didn't vote for Obama, I would never. It was a media driven popularity vote, not a capability decision.

The economies of the world are going to become much, much worse now.

Additionally when we withdraw from IRAQ, everything we worked to achieve will be destroyed, and we will leave 50,000 American servicemen there to suffer the consequences.

If Canada's health care system is so bad, why do they live longer than we do? Their system beats ours in every single catagory that we measure. Just because insurance companys call it socialism, Americans are to stupid to vote in there own interest. I am a single man with no children, but I pay school tax. Isn't that socialism?

You have to be kidding, my insurance company & all the others don't use doctors & radiologist, they use numbers counters & don't pay for testing. Medicare pays for nothing & the last administration gave us the ability to pay a $4,000. deductible for medical care & 3500.00 for drugs then it kicks in. The haves & have mores need to pay their share, because the last administration certainly gave them more. Let the president do his job & get off your ass and help get his nation moving.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if health care were completely denied to people who couldn't afford it on their own. Would things be better or worse? From an economics perspective, I would wonder if the medical R&D firms would go bankrupt because there wouldn't be enough demand for the technologies they produce to justify producing them. Would there be as good of drugs for senility if there weren't people who started showing the signs of it at extraordinarily young ages?

The work force works better when it is healthy. How about this scenario. You are working hard, getting ahead, but the company is in rough shape so it cancels your medical coverage. The stress of the company's financial shape causes your blood pressure to go up and you don't recognize the signs of an approaching heart attack. One day after the announcement of some particularly grim numbers, your heart gives out. By the time someone gets you breathing again, you've already suffered brain damage and are now permanently out of the work force. Had you been able to afford your annual check up, you'd know that your blood pressure is a bit high and that you should take a breather when things get tough and you won't end up in a nursing home in your 40s. Of course, what do big companies say when your hard work kills you? "GOOD! GO TO HELL YOU SLACKER!"

As it stands, many people who do go to work, work hard, maybe even go to college, sometimes make personal sacrifices by taking lower paying jobs in order to help people who are in need, or make non-tax deductible donations which leave then without much money of their own and they must rely on public assistance. Shall we penalize these people for being dedicated to the good of everyone?

We need to prevent the kind of situations that get people dependent on public assistance, and we need to use public assistance money with more of an emphasis on getting people who can work back into the work force. The fact is, though, that some are completely incapable of doing it for whatever reason. To say that if someone is paralyzed from the neck down, perhaps by no fault of their own, they should either be forced to make a contribution or be killed, as some of the others who favor the current system have strongly implied, is truly capitalism at its worst. Since when did money become so important that we really honestly want to see people die because they can't figure out how to meet their needs on their own?

We need to keep the system as fair as possible, but the fact of the matter is that bad things happen to good people which they can't always overcome. Being from Montana and seeing how horrid the summer days and winter nights can get here, I find it hard to imagine that anyone would choose to be homeless here for long periods of time. Having known people who live on social security and seeing how they barely scrape by on what money they get and how hard they have to fight to qualify for that money if they haven't reached retirement age, I find it hard to imagine it would be any better than going to work at Burger King. BK pays better too. Not quite enough to make a living on as a single person, but better than SSDI. I know I wouldn't be clamoring for a system where I would have to wait 3 months to see a doctor if I thought I had a better option, but if I were faced with not getting to see a doctor at all, 3 months would sound much better.

Universal medicine is fair if you make the standard a certain amount of work. If you contracted a childhood illness that left you without one of your arms, there isn't a lot you can do for good money since most everything nowadays requires two mostly working hands. Think about this: if you didn't have one of your hands, how hard would it be to open the latch on your laptop, or type, or multitask? Pretty hard I would imagine. Buying groceries, getting dressed, getting a lunch packed and the drive to work would all take either a very long time or insane effort. Most of these things you would have to do in some way shape or form even if you weren't working. Is that not comparable to a hard day on the job? Is it fair that they should have to work as hard as a corporate executive to just stay alive and get no real gain from their extraordinary efforts? I'm usually fairly indifferent about this sort of stuff, but I think you can only let a person fall so far before it becomes the responsibility of society to give them a second chance to prosper. Once they've lost everything, they may never rejoin society. If we can't at least give them the chance, we are dooming ourselves to being stuck with the obligation to help them or the inhumanity of letting them die. Is a human life worth one of those $3000 bottles of wine? The ones you give to everyone you know at parties without hesitation. There is great money to be made in getting these people back into the workforce if possible and obviously great money to be lost in letting them stay destitute. A "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" lecture won't change this. Many people who are in need of such a system already have the motivation to do what they need to, but it isn't enough.

Though I find it to be a bit rediculous that so much money goes to keeping people who will never recover on life support and other highly expensive and unproductive uses of money, I don't think we should give up on those who have potential just because they aren't showing it now. They may someday be your next millionaire customer if we can just get them headed in that direction. If paying for everyone to have medicine is going to be required though, I do think it is fair that we should be very, very careful about what we count as worthy of such a program.

Finally, I really think that the well-to-do need to consider how all this resentment of everyone who isn't wealthy impacts the less fortunate. You are having to hand over money now because the less fortunate don't see the struggles of the rich, just like the rich sometimes don't see the struggles of the poor. The open hostilities don't help either side. It just means that with every shift of power, either the rich or the poor takes a beating that could be avoided because of the pent up hostilities over previous injustices.

One way or another though, the underprivileged are worthy of an investment.

I couldn't disagree more. Through personal experience, I have come to understand that we the people need an alternative, with the power to alter injustices within the market, through choice that currently is bullied out by the giants of healthcare. I broke my back in 2005 and needed a reconstructive surgery in order to walk again. My insurance company, Blue Cross Blue Shield, approved the surgery, which involved removing disk and vertebrae gone awry, to replace with synthetic bone, disk, and metal bracing. They approved the surgery, but never informed me that they would not be paying for the bracing or the synthetics bolted permanently inside my body. I was sent a bill six months after exiting the rehab hospital, and am now still 6k in debt. It is not as though I can return the stuff.
Again, these "free" market insurance providers approved the operation, my doctors performed the operation, reconstructing my spine, and then after sewing me up, sent me a bill for what they had implanted into my body which allowed me to walk again. I am now uninsurable because of the injury, so I am stuck paying the company which screwed me or else racking up debts I cannot shoulder. I can't shoulder the debt I'm in already. We need more options, and the collective power of individuals within our society, is the only option by which these conglomerates are intimidated enough to create options.

This are just thoughts to consider. This isn't just my story, too many other Americans have had similar experiences. I firmly believe it is immoral to not dialogue about a way to change the staus quo. I also believe that simply criticizing the attempts of this administration, without acknowledging the need for some kind of change, is irresponsible, and ignorant to the suffering of those in situations like my own. It may not be perfect, but it is something.

(I apologize if this may seem incoherent, I am currently medicated pretty heavily)

if your definition of "rich" is working for a living and not feeding at the government trough, then yes

Or maybe they someday hope to be on their own account arthur pelland. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have the ambition to make something of themselves instead of thinking that government is their only answer. Big Government = BIG PROBLEMS - and that goes for both sides of the aisle.

Nope. Not rich. We are just working and paying our own way. It is called personal responsibility.

I voted it a mistake and I am the futhest thing from rich. I make a lot less than 75K a year. This spending is out of control, it is not going to fix things and we will be paying for it for generations to come! People voted for change and all the got was a slick talking dirty politician from the dirty IL political machine. God help us..........

If your definition of rich is working two jobs and never taking public assistance from government programs, then I am rich in personal responsibility

no were not rich people were just smart people.

Rich? you mean free transportation, 2-3 TV's, free food, free housing, free medicare, free utilities, free clothing, multiple cell phones, free day care, free college tuition, free social security.....that would be the so called poor.

Work 50+ hours a week, pay for healthcare, pay for what I can afford housing, pay for my food, 1 old TV, pay for all my tax laden utilities, pay 43% of my income out in taxes, contribute another 15% of my income plus 5 hours a week to charity, pay for my own retirement, pay for my kids education....yes, I'm rich in the knowledge that I don't need someone else to pay my way.....for now...but Obama is working on taking that away.

Sorry to disappoint you! I am a disabled miltary widow-and I don't like what I see Obama doing. Nothing to do with potenital Medicare cuts. I'm afraid for my grandchildren.

Amazing!!! Success must be punished, misery must be shared by all. I will love to know who will start a business which is not allow to make a profit.I know let's form collectives we all have seen how well they work in other countries. Funny in countries like Venezuela is not the middle class that backs up Chavez. is the ones that had nothing and no education because they are "getting their due"; look how well they are doing today.In medicine don't worry; people like Bob will decide who is worthy of receiving medical care, which medical care and for how long. Don't be fools people from countries with socialized medicine come here for treatment all the times, so our system is not that bad. We are seen the story of The Piper and we are the mice following the music to our ultimate demise.

no i'm not!

If you consider less than 6 figure income rich, then, ok, I'm rich....but I am nowhere near the 250K mark!! I am outraged at the spending spree the government is on right now.

You are very wrong. I'm not rich and I think it is a complete disaster what this man is doing to our economy.

I take home 65% of what I earn. How about you?

No, I'm not rich.  I am single and work two jobs so I can have a savings account and pay my mortgage.  This is a huge mistake.  I believe he is a socialist and he was trained to conquer from within.  That's what he's doing.  He will destroy America as we know it with these plans.

FAR FROM RICH, thank you very much. I'm just tired of paying for others laziness. There is only one place for this money to come from and that is WORKING people. Many of us are too emotional to see what is really happening, and has been for years. too busy name calling, finger pointing, and placing blame. does it really matter?! It makes no difference if a robber comes throughthe front door or the back door - you're still being robbed!!! Left, right, liberal, conservitive, republican, democrat - just labels - nothing more! wake up before it's too late

A great post MBrown49!! If the pseudo rich, neo-cons actually read your words and even glance at the new budget and see what it contains (that is if they read) then they will see that Obama's budget plans and bail-out is his attempt to undo the disaster that we inherited from Mr. Bush. GWB, as President was a sinful, arrogant man who looks out only for himself and his buddies.....that's what got us into this mess in the first place. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT!

If the American people don't want to spend the money necessary to establish market stability and pull us out of a deep recession than go ahead and lose everything you have. The lower and middle class has been bearing the load for too long. Now it's time the Corporations, Banks, and Wall St. to start paying their share of what they've been able to steal over the last 8 years, or more.

I understand that Halliburton and the other no-bid contractors in Iraq and right here will be forced to pay back what they took from us. The Banks and Brokerage houses have a responsibility to pay a large part of the recovery money. That isn't socialism, that's honesty.

NOT rich people, just people who don't want to hand over our freedom. Our forefather's and millitary personnel have paid the price so we could make our own choices and make our own way-we're handing it over like it's not worth anything by allowing this regime to take over. These are people who know that nothing from the government is ever free. People who understand the necessity of taking responsibility for supporting our own families and not asking for handouts. People who know that they have to support their kids even if it isn't convenient. People who have been down and out and didn't ask for welfare or a free ride. People who pick themselves up, dust their knees off and keep going when they fall-and don't ask the government to give them money when they make a bad choice. These learned that there in fact are consequences for our actions. Those are the people who say that this "budget" is a mistake.

I wonder where all the non-believers and non-Obama worshipers, you know, all the intelligent people out there, will be sent to for exile. Just wondering if I will have to pack warm clothes. Might as well because he is turning this once great country into a socialist nation, just like Russia. He probably has made a deal with Russia to lease space in Siberia to send people like me that believe in free choice and democracy. At least I was able to live the majority of my life as a free man.

Lets get a few things straight about healthcare models. We have three active models in this Country currently:

(1) Private insurance- most individuals have this now

(2) Medicare (Universal Health Coverage for seniors)

(3) Socialized medicine (Veteran's Administration)

What Obama is proposing is not socialized medicine. The health care providers are not government employees. What Universal healthcare is can be best described by the current Medicare system expanded to the general populous. The gov't acts as the insurance carrier, but the healthcare professionals remain private.

Fact: Private health insurance carriers are sucking the life blood out of this Country. They have become vampires that are driving people into the uninsured, bankrupted, and homeless ranks. This puts people's lives at risk while insurance CEOs are buying 3rd houses in Vail. It's wrong, and I challenge any right-winger to defend it. If you firmly believe that an American only has a right to healthcare if they can afford it (or die), than I say you are fundamentally immoral.

Not only that, but our healthcare quality is getting worse, not better, under private insurance.

Everything I've heard says taxes will only go up for those earning well over 6 figures....and for those who are doing well, it will only go back to where it was under Bill Clinton...what's the freakout? No one is stealing from the rich to give to the poor, it's just more balanced.....why should i be in a 30% tax bracket and someone who can well afford to pay more is paying next to nothing, or in a lower %?

It's not fair that the rich pay less taxes, and get more breaks/loopholes.

"The poor don't pay taxes, nor do the rich, it's on the backs of the middle class"

Obama has never supported himself so knows little about working people. He went from affirmative action schooling to Government in the chicago machine. He has little knowledge for one with degrees. He is leading us to the collapse that USSR endured.

Think again buddy. I voted it a mistake. I am NOT rich, I just have a brain and can think for myself and can see that it and Obama are a huge mistake. Wake up.

If rich means having the means to provide for my family because I work and not leech off the government, then I guess you could categorize me as your definition of rich too!

I think people like you Arthur, are ignorant of the reality and prejudiced against rich people because you don't think. You feel and react with knee-jerk emotionalism, which if you're a Liberal is endemic to that political philosophy.

You are kidding me with this socialist comment and trained (?) to conquer from within? Calm down with your paranoid fear. I am also working two jobs just to pay off my mortgage. My sister lost her job about ten months ago after working for 30 years. Neither of us have even taken government money and we are barely keeping our heads above water. If I lose my primary job, my second job will not be able to support me and my sister. I support whatever this President does to try to help turn this economy. I don't think I heard this kind of yelling and screaming from the right wing when Bush drove this country into debt. Where was your concern about the welfare of your children and grandchildren when Bush was in office? Obama has been in office for only a month and I think he is doing what he feels best for this country. What ever happen to the battle cry that all good Americans should support the President in a time of crisis. Isn't that your right wingers were shouting with Bush-I guess that doesn't apply when you don't like the President. After all is said and done, you are no better than those people you call unpatriotic for the last eight years who said things you did not like about Bush.

I did not vote for Mr. Obama and I'm not rich - We, my husband and I, drive 9 and 10 year old vehicles and rent a house (we cannot afford to buy) - We both work and probably will until we die - We DO NOT WANT SOCIALISM, I was born and raised in a socialist country.

So we continue to tax the rich. Congress went after the Wall Street exec's bonus and guess what, NYC lost over 100 mil in revenue. Guess who, middle class, will have to pick up the slack or lose services. When you get robbed on the street because Bloomberg cuts the cops, thank Chuck and Hillary.

You are sooooooooo wrong. Ithink it's a mistake to penalize the elderly with less payment for their healthcare. I didn't hear whether medicaid recipients will suffer. These are our parents and grandparents folks. Do we care whether they live or die? I care immensly. I also think its shameful to burden our children and grandchildren with this tremendous debt that a working woman like me cannot even imagine. Lucky to make 50,000/year.

Excuse me, but I voted NO and I make $40,000/year. Last time I checked that did not make me rich.

I say 9 out of 10 of you people talking about tax hikes will be getting a tax decrease under Obama. So sorry to disappoint your Republican sensibilities.

Big Government=REPUBLICAN, take a look at the last 8 years. Republicans talk small government, but their actions betray them. Republicans stand for fiscal irresponsibility and filling the pockets of corporations.

Now we have to clean up their mess. Republicans think they deserve a 'free ride' and now we all have to suffer. The boogyman of welfare is nothing compared to what the Republicans have brought down on our heads. Scurry away now, we've seen what you're about these last 8 years, and it ain't pretty!

I am barely middle class, on the verge of being poor, and I said it was a mistake. I was no big fan of George Bush, but people in his administration tried to tell the likes of Barney Frank that there would be a major financial meltdown if we didn't set up a regulatory committee, and Frank said that Fannie and Freddie were sound and he was not in favor of a bailout. Does anyone realize that the more money poured into an economy, the less our dollars are worth? I think Obama is trying to do something right, and I think no one has the answer so something needs to be done; but a package full of pork to bailout industries like the auto industry that failed to keep up with 21st century auto needs is rewarding failure. And you know what we get? $13 a week and passing on a country that will resemble France to our gradnchildren! Perhaps I will go on that cruise to the Bahamas after all with my $13 a week.

Thank God someone with some gray matter between their ears!Yes where were they durning the Busch Adm. - they were stealing us blind with the flag draped over their cold stone hearts.

YOU NEED ONLY TO LOOK AT Obamas choices for his cabinet and to advisors to know that he is the mistake that we are all going to have to pay for, as for being wealthy try living on Social Security with sever health problems and of course his partial solution to our problems is to cut back even further on medicare, too bad he doesn't have to pay my insurance premiums and figure out hoe to pay the rent and put food on his table! I just turned 68 today and am supposed to be living out my "Golden Years" instead of living out "What the Hell is going to go wrong next?"

Old fashioned Grandma

For all you 250K and over earners. As Leona Helmsley said, only the little people pay taxes. This statement is so true. The rich continue to want their cake and eat it too. Its sad that the rich continue to think its fair for them to be taxed at the same rate as a school teacher or police officer who makes 50k. Greed has no boundaries. Its a sin and a shame that they cannot see through their own greed. I've said it once and I'll say it again FAIR IS FAIR! A 3% increase will NOT send you to the poor house. Get a grip and pay your taxes.

Or "probably" people who educated themselves enough to spell and obtain decent employment.

"I think the people that voted "I think it a mistake" are probable all rich people"

Actually, I'm a full time college student, employed 40 hours per week and I have a brand new baby and a husband who was recently laid off. Try again, your stereotypes are failing.

Eileen V, you get the "biggest dummy posting" award for today. And who do you think pay the "most in taxes" and the "highest tax rates", no, its not the bottom feeders like you think (or even the middle class). It's the top 2%. This group pays 40% of all federal income taxes. And you think they're NOT paying their fair share. Lady, as I said earlier, I'd love to have whatever it is you are smoking. And don't tell me you are that niave to believe this lying sycophant of a president when he says taxes are only going to be raised on those making over $200,000 (or whatever figure it is for this week). Lady, we are all going to be paying MORE in taxes. This man has not met a tax he doesn't like. People in the middle class should worry. Because you are going to be targeted next time around. The strategy of all good Marxist/Socialist is to play the classes against one another, GET IT! First, you go after the wealthy (and that is because they represent such a small % of the overall population and carry a smaller voice). After you tax them into submition (or chased them out of this country, which is more likely to be the case), then next in line is the middle class. So, open your eyes and stop being a "useful idiot" for the Marxist/Socialist. Also, if you're falling into a 30% tax bracket, you should be making a fairly decent income, if not, then you must have hired the dumbest tax accountant alive!

I'm not rich, but I make a good wage and if the government would allow me to keep more of my wages I might make it one day. As it is right now, I'm splitting my raises almost 50:50 with that idiot in California who pops babies out like Pez dispensers and people like her that have done nothing to warrant taking half of my pay.

Hey Fishermann 144- you need to do some more research before you blame the economy on GWB. Take a look who has been the majority sitting in the house and the congress and writing and presenting the bills for the past 2 years when the economy started to take a downward turn. That's right- your liberal budies and their pork filled bills. You want to talk about Halliburton, then you better do some research on Nancy Pelosi and her special interests. Take a look at the stock she owns and compare it to what was presented into this "recovery" bill before the republicans squashed the pork.

Wow aren't you a good little socialist!  I think this is a mistake and I make 30k per year, does that make me rich?  No!  But when I work hard for years and continue to get education, I will get rich...and its just not fair to pay for everyone else along the way!

Then call me rich, if you want to. Remember - there aren't enough "rich" people to pay this back until the definition of "rich" reads: "middle-class".

Middle-class and tired of it, already!! The federales are already "spending" 3x as much money as the US owns; now our new President wants to jump it to 10x !!! I think I'm gonna need a raise to subsidize the new taxes.

I think this is "the best we can expect" and I am quite comfortable financially. I believe that if we don't engage in massive relief we will ALL go down, and I mean really, really down. I am not sure where the paranoia comes from (all the references to socialism, for example) but I don't agree with it. Do any of you who have criticized the budget refuse the government help we have all come to accept, such as unemployment, medicare, social security, tax breaks for mortgage interest, college scholarships and loans, disaster relief etc, etc? Many of these were called "socialist" by conservative opponents when they were first started.

The only erosion I have noticed in my personal freedoms has come about from incursions like the Patriot Act which makes it a nightmare even to open a bank account, so I don't quite get the "socialism" argument. You can say what you want about Canada and ALL of the other western democracies' health systems, but the essential freedoms and standard of living in those countries are equal to or better than ours, including all the health measures (such as life expectancy, infant mortality) you can think of.

I am willing to pay more taxes to turn our country around.

itsjustanillusion, Leona's comment about "only the little people pay taxes" absolutely must emphasize 'PAY'.

Her tax rate was higher than yours or mine will ever be, but her deductions and shelters were much more expansive! This is due to the current, government-scrambled tax codes that even the IRS can't fully understand.

Until the taxes are fairly (and flatly) applied, there will never be parity and the rich and political will pay a smaller percentage; and until the spending is severely curbed, there will be no relief from outrageous bugets with their pork.

I think its hilarious that all of the "Rich Person" bashers can't use proper grammer. Here's a thought - go to school, get a job - preferably one that pays LOTS of money so you can be a "Rich Person" too, and then tell me how sweet it is to give 40% of your income to somebody who can't even distinguish the difference between "probable" and "probably". Move along now - I'm sure the welfare line is getting longer as we speak.

Not rich but I have a job because somebody else is! I have insurance because somebody else is rich. I know where my bread is buttered and you liberal, blind, greedy, never satisfied till everyone is poor people don't know how to appreciate anything. You aren't smart enough to get rich but you don't want the ones that are to have what they made. What if there was someone in your community that was making less than you and they said it wasn't fair and decided to take more of your money away to give it to that other person. Face the facts, people! There have always been haves and have nots, this is never going to change. Get over your somebody owes me mentality! I don't agree with the CEO's that failed miserably still making high salaries, bonuses, and perks but I don't agree with unfair policies that try to "redistribute" the wealth! That is cutting your nose off to spite your face. They provide the jobs and many times the insurance or a portion of it. Why is that so hard to see?

It probbly depends on your definition of "rich." I do not make a six figure income and in no way consider myself rich. I do have a job and work very hard for the money I earn.

I have a problem giving my money to a government that doesn't ever manage money well. I don't know about you, but I can't run my finances in a defecit. The fact that some of my money goes to people that are in this country illigally, or choose to not work and do not contribute at all to the system that pays for their medical and other benefits bothers me greatly.

Also, doesn't seem a little strange that BO wants to cut the defecit in half by the end of his first term yet just added over a trillion dollars in new spending to the current defecit? Usually when I want to cut my expenses, I have to cut out something I'm currently spending my money on. I've never saved money by increasing spending

I think it is a mistake.  I'm not rich either;  worked full time until 62; started collecting Social Security (figured I best take it before it was given to someone who hasn't worked) and now clean to supplement my income.  I don't believe President Obama  read the 1000 plus page stimulus package that he says does not contain earmarks (when in fact it does) and I doubt if he read or understands the proposed budget.  (That is not a slam against our President - I think it is a realistic opinion)  Those of us who run our households within our budget and don't go over our heads in debt should be an example for President Obama.  Our country cannot sustain itself when it is over its head in debt just as simply as our households cannot carry on when overburdened with debt.  The Bush Bashing gets pretty old; me thinks when someone tries to "blame" someone else for anything they are not being mindful of the issue at hand.  

Hey Brian, I can spell. I can also tell you that without those people cleaning up after you and making sure the distasteful things that you would never do to make your life more comfortable had your exalted education. I guess that would put in a bit of a bind, wouldn't it? Maybe, you should think about all those things; like running water, a flushing toilet and trash removal to name a few, that make your world so comfortable. I don't think, the last time I checked, that any of the individuals responsible for those things, were as educated as you. Hmmmmm...

obama is just another politician, sayin one thing, doing another, no-one calls him on it, scary don't you think? , barney frank and dodd are alot to blame for the housing crisis, Obama should fire them, but as usual they are here to stay to really mess things up even more, they have no idea what they are doing. I refuse to help people with thier morgtages, what a bunch of B.S. Pelosi and reid are nothing but a joke. hope she had fun on her little vacation. We need to throw them all out and let REAL American people do their job.

I voted "I think it is a mistake". So you think only the rich voted for this. My roots are from a socialistic country. I am on disability and wish I could work in my chosen profession. This country needs to go on a diet! A fiscal, physical and every other way diet. If we ate sensibly and did not use our cars for every little thing, we wouldn't have nearly as much diabetes and unhealthy eating related conditions. Yes, this includes me! I have personally witnessed doctors prescribing so many medications that the person was overdosing and wound up in a nursing home environment to get "detoxed." Improvements need to be made but I don't think anything efficient will come out of government obesity -- just a lot more illnesses and diseases -- that could have been controlled with less, not more, spending. Show me the efficiency in U.S. government managed programs. I have found few.

BRAVO!!

I am so tired of these knee-jerk, neo-con banshee(s) screaming socialism! When Bush was driving this nation to "war" and bankruptcy, we were called unpatriotic for criticizing him, yet the neo's feel free to yell socialism from the rooftops when they don't even know what socialism truly is. Barack Obama is a well-educated man (unlike Bush who is a dry drunk and bragged about being a "C" student) who has more common sense in his little finger than Bush, Cheney, Rove, and the rest of the apoplectic neos combined! I'll take President Obama over those wingnuts ANYtime!!

Regarding the deficit spending issue: presumably when the economy recovers (and it will) tax revenues will increase, just as they have shrunk with the increase of unemployed workers, who no longer have withholding. BEFORE you go ballistic about "higher taxes", this increase will be due to more people working again and paying taxes, not higher taxes per se. We are involved in a "contraction" here, and everything contracts. When the economy expands again, everything will expand.

I am surprised that so many people in this conversation still seem to believe that their taxes will go up, yet they claim to make under 250K. Maybe when you start to see the extra $ in your paycheck you will believe Mr. Obama.

PS Since Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are elected officials, President Obama can't fire them.

"I think the people that voted "I think it a mistake" are probable all rich people "

so if i don't praise every move obama makes i am wealthy.....weird. I didn't know that a 22 year old mother of 2 with an income of 80,000 was wealthy. what a jerk!

angela, obviously the elevator does not go all the way to the top when a person generalizes and labels everyone rich because they do not agree with him. Touche for you for expressing your opinion.

so if the people who said it is a mistake are all rich , then the ones that said it was about right are people who are jobless, have no idea of the value of money and hard-work and are leeches on society?

I think not. People rich and poor vote both ways. Your vote here means nothing other than it is your opinion. It certainly is not the opinion of Obama or most of the members of Congress. If you want a change that you can believe from that, you had better start writing and calling your congressmen.

My family makes over 250,000. a year. My husband has worked for the same company for 28 years. We have had to move 7 times,from one coast to the other,for his advancement. It was our choice! My husbands father worked for 40 years in the coal mines to provide a college education for his children. My father was a box salesman. We are raising 3 wonderfull children in the public school system. They all work hard in school along side of children who don't care about doing well in school. Mine will go to college and I hope that they will do well for themselves in their choosen professions. They have been taught respect for themselves and others. They will suceed!

You say the rich should pay more because we have more. WHY? After the Presidents tax hike on the rich,39.5%+SS tax+State tax , we will be paying over 50% of our pay in taxes alone!! We don't know about any loopholes we can use, never have. We write off our house interest and charitable contributions.

Here's what I think needs to happen. Get ride of the pork in the current government. At least allow a line item veto. Next ,get rid of the IRS. Now have a Flat tax on everything we buy,grocery's,tv's,cars. This way everybody keeps all their money from their paychecks and buys what they can afford. The drug dealers pay, the illegal immigrants pay,the rich pay,the middle class pay,the poor pay, Everybody pays their fare share!!

All I know is when my taxes go up I won't be hiring anyone to help with yard work or any remodeling or washing my windows or painting projects or giving so freely of my money to charities in need or the man on the street. I will use it to pay for my house payments,my gas,my electric,water,and other neccesities. We won't go out to eat,We won't take even modest vacations, won't buy a new car(mine is 7 years old).

Do I sound like a spoiled rich person? I have sripped wallpaper from walls,painted houses,dug my own garden to make my 6 previous homes a house where someone is proud to buy. We have Never bought a house beyond our means and asked someone to bail us out. We don't use credit cards. We live within our budget. Even 25 years ago when we got married, We both had student loans,car payments,and yes credit cards(That's where we learned our first valuable lesson,only cash and carry). I stand here today PROUD of what my family makes and the way we choose to spend it. We have worked hard and smart! I THANK MY PARENTS AND HUSBANDS PARENTS FOR TEACHING US TO WORK HARD,LOOK TO THE FUTURE ,PLAN FOR THE FUTURE,AND MAKE NO EXCUSES!

So please before you jump on the band wagon about hirer taxes on the rich,lets get our government to clean house and watch how they spend our money, make them accountable!!! Because when the so called rich stop spending many more hoseholds and businesses will feel the pain.

I make $45,000 a year. Does that make me rich?

Yes the evil rich, they want to keep it all for themselves. If one looks at the attempts to create a Utopian society where a group of people pool their resources and give as needed. Something strange happened that defied the good intentions of the great thinkers who surmised that this would indeed be a swell place to live. There is and always has been a segment of society that will do a little or at worst a lot less than others and expect all the benefits of residence in the great giving society. Soon the producers resent the exploitation of their efforts and suddenly the model of communal living becomes less and less desirable. Now it seems we are debating expanding the model to include the roughly 300 million living here. Strangely the number of people being asked to contribute to the general welfare is becoming a smaller number all the time. I am betting the brilliant political leaders figure if the folks who don't give as much support them because they get stuff they don't have to pay for they better make the takers a bigger number of voters than the givers. Maybe sooner than later the givers will decide its better to be a taker, then I wonder who will pay for all of this? Hmmm

I think the people that voted "I think it a mistake" are probable all rich people

If going to school and working for a living and paying my taxes and bills makes me "rich" guilty. For the record I started with very little, paid my way all of my life and live better now than I ever imagined. I get no thrill out of seeing others suffer and try to help others whenever I can. I do not support government programs that prop up professional politicians who spend my tax dollars and act like they are opening up their checkbook and helping others so they can buy some votes. Don't listen to what they say look at the record of how they give their assets to help others, that tells the story of real compassion for others.

I too am well below the 200K threshold and believe this is a mistake. It seems to me that a lot of people think that a CEO with 200M in compensation and a dentist making 200K are in the same economic demographic. This is certainly not true.

The Democrats are beholden to the same corporate special interests as the Republicans, so corporate welfare programs like TARP will continue unhindered and the superrich will make out like bandits. In the meantime, they are attempting to pacify the diminishing middle class with an extra $13 per week and a promise to soak their (slightly) more prosperous neighbors.

Of course, MSN did an article suggesting that "the rich" is a relative term. To a person making $30K per year, $75K is "the rich", while a person making $75K might consider $150K "the rich", and so forth. The Democrats did their homework in this regard - they chose an income cutoff that is not only higher than most American's income, but also fits their notion of "the rich". Whether it is fair to charge a $200K income at the same marginal rate as a $200M income therefore becomes irrelevant, since we all know "the rich" are a bunch of bastards who don't deserve their paychecks.

It sure does make it easier to sell a bunch of good when you distract people with good old fashioned class warfare.

What is "rich" in your eyes? I made $148,000 last year and paid $41,840 in Federal Tax, $16,280 in State tax, $14,000 in property tax, $2200 in Medicare, $5800 in Social Security which leaves me paying 46% of my income in taxes and I am not counting the sales taxes, gasoline taxes and all of the other hidden taxes on our utility bills etc. This is a huge mistake because when Obama says he is going to tax the rich to pay for all of this, there is no way it is going to stop there, everyone of us is going to be paying a whole lot more, may not be labeled as an income tax but it will cost all of you, because small business, the job creators, are going to be the first ones to fall under the burden of Obama's tax hike to the "rich" what a backward way of stimulating the economy, I do not believe he truly wants to stimulate the economy because he would not be doing something as totally fool-hardy as this!

I actually voted "it is a mistake" and I am a STRONG supporter of Barack Obama. I still am. This does not change my feelings and intuition that he will be one of the greater presidents of this generation.

But here are some of my thoughts about this budget:

1 - It's honest. Unlike Bush, he included the Iraq war and provided an accurate picture of the financial situation of the government.

2 - He knew that this was clearly going to be a shocker to the American people, but he did not back down from it. I think that this is somewhat commendable.

3 - While I think that this is a mistake, I also see the long-term picture. What I believe Barack is doing is having a large initial outlay of funds; however, IN THE LONG TERM (3-4 years), the economy will see a great improvement and all of those gov't savings will start showing.

4 - I strongly believe that Obama will at least cut the deficit in half by the end of his term. This is simply a capital investment.

5 - I think this was a mistake because he should have smoothed out the expenses over the course of a couple of years (in my humble opinion).

Not rich(under 50k per year). Tired of paying for others. Tired of paying for people who make a career of being on Welfare. Tired of paying at a daycare and having others having it paid for them. The more we tax the "rich" the more they'll charge us for their services. I know I'd do that if I were in their situation.

I think a lot of you that believe socialised medicine is so great need a strong dose or reality to cure your "Rectocranial Insertion Syndrome" brought on by drinking too much liberal koolaide and believing everything you read and heard on the liberally biased press who picked your president for you and then sold him to you with the "Change and Hope" BS that had no meaning or substance to it; kind of like Obambam himslef; an Empty talking Suit with out a clue or brain cell to back up his words.
Once you raise the Capital gains tax to 20%, you are going to see revenue to the treasury drop faster than the stock market has since bambam took office. All the smart money will leave this country to avoid having it confisticated by the government for the lazy and inept. Sadly these people that think the crook now in office is the "messiah" are the same ones that dropped out of school or majored in Black Studies, women's Studies, English or some other "fine arts" degree; certainly nothing that required any degree of intelligence.

This honeymoon is far from being over we have ben getting screwed since January 21, 2009 Please put some vaseline in the "Pork" bail out Thank you

robert3rd......no I am not rich, I'm unemployed. The greed of Wall Street, the Banks, and Mortgage companies caused this financial crisis. Loan Officers with no accountability. This is the problem that should be dealt with now and the only issue that should be dealt with now. The rest is just smoke. The fire is in the banking system, the Treasury, and the Federal Reserve. In false securities and bonds and this fraud continues today. It was Congress that failed us, all of them. This occurred on their watch. Yet they continually take their raises and perks just like the Wall Street executives. If it takes Nationalizing the Banks for a brief period the sooner it is done the sooner it will be over.

For all those going into or are in foreclosure.....make sure the guy, company, business that is foreclosing has the right too. Ask them to produce your mortgage note. You would be surprised how many can't. They are just a service company. You must ask, the judge won't.

The Treasury can print all the money it wants and soon, very soon, that money won't be worth the paper it is printed on.

Jeff,

Maybe they moved off shore because of the EXCESSIVE taxation?

Get a brain or at the very least think for yourselves and stop drinking the liberal Kool Aid pumped out by the media.

Why do you think GM, Ford and Chrysler have parts made in Mexico and Canada? Cheaper and get around the taxes associated with producing parts themselves. Boeing did the same thing with the 787.

Excessive taxes drive businesses out of the US.

These companies that move offshore pay no payroll taxes either but the USA will wind up taking care of these employees sooner or later while the company owners stuff their wallets. Check out the facts on the internet.

No Marv,

Detroit moved across the border because our health care system is corrupt, over-priced, and insufficient. No less than $2000 is added to the cost of every care due to health care costs. Give us a break with the rediculous "taxation" line. Corporations are paying less in taxes now than ever before.

As for Halliburton, that whole arrangement was criminal. Halliburton moved off shore to prevent Congress from hauling their filthy a$$es in for questioning. Blackwater eventually did the same thing to avoid the Law. These are both outfits that sucked off the public trough to the tune of billions- but that waste is ok according to neo-con kool-aid drinkers.

MBrown49: let's put our head in the sand won't we. Do you like the profits in your 401K? Well were do you think they come from?Is so sick about the big bad corporations; understand this: a corporation is there to make profits not to subsidized a social agenda.

Companies don't leave because of taxes,but because of wages for non educated workers in other countries is lower.Detroit still employs plenty of people in Michigan just not people without degrees.Education is every thing.That's the saddest thing about World trade.Low levels jobs are leaving.that is why there are people on Welfare unfortunately we aren't all given the same intellect and if you are not smart you have less oppurtunities for work.McDonald's and Walmart can't employ all the people with only High School or less.I hate paying for Welfare but can we really find jobs for all the people on welfare.

Ivonne- I am not stupid enough to have left my retirement to the devices of the crooks on Wall St. Your comment is off kilter. I want you to spell out for me why you think corporations should operate any way they want to and pay no taxes. You obviously think that even $1 a corporation pays in taxes is socialism. I want you to explain that position to me in a coherent, literate post that is based in reality.

And turn off Limbaugh already, I can hear him talking to you in the background.

Are there really people ignorant enough to think that companies pay taxes? Those taxes are SALES TAXES to the consumers of the company service or product! ONLY individuals can pay taxes. The corporate taxes are part of the cost of the product. You not only pay those taxes but pay the profit on those taxes in the cost of the product! WAKE UP!

What are you talking about, Mike? I guess it's time for my company to request a refund for all of the taxes we have paid for the last 15 years! Of course companies pay taxes on profit. It's not sales tax. That's simply a tax we collect from sales and send onto the government. There are definitely taxes on profit, on inventory...

Ivonne-411507: I don't know what company you're working for, but my 401(k) is suffering HUGE losses! I had to freeze my contributions so that I am not throwing good money after bad.

elenore: A fancy piece of paper does not make one smart. I have worked with many "educated" people who have had to ask me (an "uneducated person") for help, guidance, or advice on a number of issues and/or projects. The big company that employs me hit the jackpot when they hired me because they are getting the work of an "educated" person at the wage of an "uneducated" person. Because I am a struggling single mother (who does not qualify for ANY government assistance), I have neither the time nor the financial resources to invest in getting that fancy document just to prove that I am smart.

MBrown49: It is my impression from what I have read in this disussion that you are by far the most sensible and intelligent person posting in this forum. Any plans to run for a government office one day?

You idiots (oops... maybe I should define the word - an offensive term that deliberately insults somebody's intelligence- after working so hard to get the education necessary to feel superior to others, you may have forgotten how to think for yourself) do realize, don't you, that there are plenty of us (obviously uneducated, unmotivated, underachieving, suck off the system) employees that are paid low to minimum wage to work for the business owners, executives, etc. of this country and are happy without asking for or expecting handouts and are still willing to overlook the few sensationalized examples of people willing to bilk the system.

Heaven knows there is none of this happening in the ranks of all you people working so hard to get the education necessary to achieve your exalted goals.

mikki-537418: Thank you! You have made me proud to be uneducated! I am SO glad that I am not the only one. The truth be told, I would much rather be classified with the likes of you and MBrown49 than any of the other people on this site that seem to think they are morally and intellectually superior just because they spent tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands on their precious educations!

copsis- thanks, but I would be assassinated by one of these dittoheads in pretty short order.

elenor made an interesting comment. She believes that you need a college education to make money. I would say that it deffinately opens more doors and increases the possibility to get a better job, but it does not guarantee it. Also, just because you can't go to school doesn't mean you can't be wealthy. My grandfather never made it past the 8th grade, yet died a wealthy because he saved his money and invested wisely. My father has a friend who never went to college and he his a millionaire.

Another person brought up the 401k thing...amen brother. Where do you think those profits come from?

As for Halliburton and Blackwater, don't fault them for making a buck. They did not set up the rules, they just took advantage of them. If you don't like the rules, fire the rule makers (Congress). The people who are complaining about them weren't in line to go over to Iraq and Afghanistan to assist either. Next time you want to complain about Blackwater, go over ther and do what they do and see if your getting compensated enough

This is all a chicken and egg debate with everyone taking either the chicken or egg position. American business is bad and must be punished, but we actually need them to provide jobs, but don't let them make too much money, but why would investors invest if not to make money, but where would these companies get the capital to build or expand. America has been a capitalist economy for as long as we have existed. In capitalism, everyone wants to make a profit. we have survived since the late 1700's following this model. It now appears that the voters of this country have decided that capitalism no longer works for us and socialism is better. That being the case the only real decision is whether or not to stay in a socialist country. I am sure that the Americans who have busted their butts to be successful will be extremely unhappy with this choice. I believe it was a very similar internal struggle (something about a tax on tea) that lead this country to a major change in its government some 233 years ago. The only thing I wish is that this administration confront the people and admit that they are lobbying for a socialist government.

1. The debate over who caused the mess we are in is pointless- it will not solve the problem other than to know where we came from. We came from GREED- both parties contributed heavily as did most Americans. Look in the mirror- YOU are the problem- not one party or the other. That neighbor with brand new cars, jet skis , the latest HDTV - all bought on payments and bought with money you didn't have along with that too large house. That caused the problem more than any politician.

2. Those of you saying why worry- only the Rich will get a tax increase are not being realistic. Do you really think there are that many people out there making 250k a year that an increase of tax bracket from 35% to 39.6%( and yes that is what we are talking about) will pay for all of this stuff? You have got to be kidding yourself. The costs are coming down the road with possibly increased taxes in many forms- use taxes/sales taxes/gasoline taxes etc. It is not just Income taxes that they get you with. We all will pay for this- not just the Rich but every man, woman and child in the US and for years- possibly generations to come

MBrown49 and Copsis ; I see education is bad the ability to read something other than the propaganda from the government is wrong. I propose something to you go and download the stimulus package (I did) and read it (I did that too). Then go and download the plan for America is in net also. After you read this then let's have substantive discussion on the merits. Trust me it won't be pretty. If you want to hail what is happening go ahead, but when I see my children( I have four) being taught that excellence is not needed and that mediocre performances will be rewarded makes me sad and afraid for this country.

They (the communists who infest and control the Democratic party) are TRYING to bankrupt our country. A real "hard choices" budget would cut entitlements dramatically; Obama's ramping them up. Their vision of a perfect world is one in which the government controls ALL means of production and profit. They cling to discredited philosophies like rats on a sinking ship: insisting that what has been proven wrong is actually right. The only way that they can force us to accept their ideology is to collapse everything and then pose as the only means of salvation. Rahm Emmanuel said as much himself; don't let a crisis go to waste. That's why Obama has been doom and gloom lately. This budget is a thinly disguised attempt to bankrupt us that much more quickly.

JustThinkin : Said:
"What are you talking about, Mike? I guess it's time for my company to request a refund for all of the taxes we have paid for the last 15 years! Of course companies pay taxes on profit. It's not sales tax. That's simply a tax we collect from sales and send onto the government. There are definitely taxes on profit, on inventory..."

You really ARE an idiot, what company do you work for? Hopefully you aren't in any position to make important decisions because what you wrote shows you lack any business knowledge at all.

Sure, YOUR company handed the money over to the government, but they weren't paying the taxes, the cosumers of your Product paid those taxes through the higher prices they had to pay. Your company (hopefully) did all it could to reduce those taxes through deductions and passed those savings back to the consumer with a lower price.
Shish-- go get an education dolt.

Read it and tried to get people to listen, no one wanted to hear anything other than "Santa Clause is coming to town....he's making a list and checking it twice, to see who has been naughty and who has been contributing millions to his election campaign and stuffing ballot boxes...."

We are so screwed.

I've read that book cover to cover, and this situation has nothing to do with it. If anything, the last 8 years as been an Ayn Rand utopia. Laizzes Faire capitalism- no holds barred- it's unsustainable as we have now found out. Stop blaming others and look at what has really driven us to this point. And spare me the Rush Limbaugh witicisms. Rand did a good job of portraying "industrialists" as poor put-upon people.

As entertaining as the book was, it is fiction. We are dealing in reality here. Instead, "Taggart Transcontinental" has become a monopoly and controls the means of production.

Of Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged, Parker said: “This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force.”

I tend to agree.

MBrown49 is spot on.

This country hasn't been "laizzes faire Capitalist" for quite a while. The Government has been sticking its nose where it never belonged in the first place for a very long time. I rarely agreed with Bush, but now Obama is taking all the same tactics he used and is running with it. He is using fear mongering everyday to get his terrible spending bills passed. If you had any complaints about how Bush and GOP wasted so much money, hold on because the ride isn't over yet.

Hope and Change? get real. You all live in a fantasy world

And Dan, name one instance where the Bush Regime stepped in told a corporation it was out of line and actually did something about it. Peanut Corporation of America Maybe? Enron? I could go on.....

Yes, great quote from Parker. Glad to see someone else out there read that book for what it was- pure fictional entertainment.

I there anyone left alive who has really seen laizzes faire capitalism in action? If so, they are very old.

Ayn Rand wrote the book in response to what was happening then. Laissez-faire had already been "trumped" by keynesian economics - where you aren't considered smart enough to handle your own money.

It was fiction - now becoming fact

MBrown49 is spot on with everything he's said.

I actually did read Atlas Shrugged, as well as many other Ayn Rand FICTIONS.

Those of you who don't realize how close the shrub brought us to a fascist state would do well to read up. Obama has to reverse the damage he did to the Constitution, the office of the Presidency, our reputation and fix the economic disaster that horrible administration left us with.

The hysterics by the right are hilarious. Where was this concern about money when the shrub was giving it to Haliburton hand over fist to fund his illegal war? Where was the outrage then?

IT's painfully obvious that the GOP is swirling the drain. Look at the leaders it has chosen: Piyush "Bobby" Jindal, who fell on his face on Tues. night in an embarrassing display of serious disconnect; Sarah Palin, a vapid bible-humping know-nothing; Joe the Not Plumber, Michael Steele, who, on national TV last week, advised everyone not to trust his own party.

They are a bevy of buffoons. Next to the accomplished, intelligent and charismatic Obama, they are jokes.

Personally, I was worried that Obama would govern from center-right, but am very happy to see he is truly more progressive and will take us in a new direction.

The old ways have failed.

I have been telling anyone who could listen for the last few weeks to read Atlas Shrugged, glad to see somebody else has some sense! A word to the socialists - when the only way to keep the money you earn is to leave America, America is dead. That is not too far off from how the estate tax works now. The death tax, the most unfair and unconstitutional of all taxes as it is double taxation, can only be avoided if you don't die as an American. Personally, I'm moving to Curacao when I get to retirement age. You communist leaches can have this country all to yourselves. To quote Margaret Thatcher, "The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

MBrown, GM is adding $2000 to the price due to the union holding them hostage on these outrageous retirement packages. Time for the UAW to get real.

Chuck, you're wrong. The $2000 was carefully calculated based on healthcare costs only. It's time for the Country to get real and understand that our healthcare system is broken. It didn't used to be broken. It is broken now because it was decided during the Reagan years to make healthcare a profit-based industry. That didn't work.

Again, the ranting neo-conservatives on this board will attack labor and use the term "socialism" and "communism" at will, without knowing the meaning of either word. If they choose to leave the Country, fine. We need people in this Country who are well educated and understanding of how the system works. Not people who collect their talking points from a degenerative, bloated, drug-addicted, gas bag whose show just ended a few minutes ago. You live in a society, not on an island. You want roads, bridges, safe food, and a healthcare system that works? Do you collect Social Security at all? If so, pipe down with your socialism and communism talk. You know not about what you say.

No social security here, I pay my own way, which is becoming harder and harder, but I have never collected unemployment, saved for bad times and yes have been laid off. I just wonder when all in this society will begin to contribute? too many folks living on the dole of the government and rewarded for it. I thought the gas tax was for roads? and I have not had problems with health care, but then again I am here legally. Sure the auto industries woes are due to management, labor has none, right? why go to a job and perform when your contract guarantees you will make as much as the guy who is a slacker. Soon we can wonder around aimlessly, receive our check based on whatever the cap is, live in a subsidized home and have free health care. What do we do when the rich as you say are broke and the corporations are destroyed/

Well, congratulations. Excuse me if I have a problem believing that because I have never seen anyone turn down SS regardless of their wealth status (including several millionaires), but for the sake of argument, I will take you at your word.

Gas tax is for roads, that is my point. Now I'm aware that tax money has been mismanaged by both sides of the aisle over the years, but the discussion here is about the existence of taxes in general. Without some type of tax for road maintenance, who are you going to go to when your car is severely damaged by a pot hole, or it's your lucky day and the bridge you're on decides it has finally reached it's fatigue stress?

You have set up a strawman in the "lazy, loafing, slacker" model along with many others on this board. Who exactly are these people you all speak of and where are they working? If they aren't working, are they on unemployment? Who decided they were in the "lazy" class? If you are talking about welfare, that was reformed way back in '96.

Soon we can wonder around aimlessly, receive our check based on whatever the cap is, live in a subsidized home and have free health care.

What are you talking about? Listen to what you are saying. Try to imagine that happening. That's as fictional as Atlas Shrugged. It is widely understood that many of the corporate failures have been management driven- not employee/labor driven. Right now the only free healthcare being given out is to those who simply cannot pay for it and can't afford the exhorbidant premiums for it. Then the ones who are still hanging on have to pay for it, and the cost goes up. That is an example of a failing system.

If you are really concerned about the precious corporations going broke, you need not look much farther than the top. Unions make up less than 7% of the entire workforce anymore. You can't continue to beat up on them. It's time to look in the upward direction for a change.

It is great to see some intelligent discussion going on( section 5). While there may not be agreement, and least there is little of the ranting and raving seen elsewhere. It is that reasoned discourse that will lead to solutions, not the hysterical cries from both sides of the aisle. And it is unfortunate that that is what we have going on now in Washington. There is only polarization , no interchange of ideas.

I do see many elements of Ayn Rands writings in what is going on at the present time. It is a fictional series of books pushing a philosophy of life that not all agree with. The Robert Jordan series of books The Sword of Truth does this also as do many other books. They are there so one can read, learn and have insights into why things happen.

MBrown49- you have great insight and a very reasoned approach. I do not agree with everything you say but you make solid points that have validity. To take the thought on business failures a bit further- it IS the Management that screws up companies/business 99.99% of the time( and let us not forget, running a Union is a business also). Lets recognize that is the the Politicians that have screwed up the country- from both sides of the aisles( and yes it is our own greed that started it - they act in response to what we want). And don't waste the time on saying that X or Y was in charge so it is X or Y's fault- If our politicians were really interested in anything other than themselves, they would have had the moral courage to make a great deal more noise about the issues. You can complain about Iraq , the budgets etc but how many times over the last 20 years did any party really go toe to toe to stand up for what they believe? Review Presidential veto's over 20 years , review filibusters over 20 years and you will see moral courage is greatly lacking in all of our politicians

That is about 7% too many unions. You have documented cases of employees at GM clocking in and going to work other jobs, Lorain OH was widely publicized, when a line went down the electrician would be 3 hours getting there to repair the problem. Too many employees look at the job as an entitlement and in the end "profit" is the reason to have a business, nothing horrible about that. Ever see a state road crew? 10 guys standing around while one is working, that is not efficient, but the pay is great. Your utopia is flawed, who do you think it affects when the government talks about mileage taxes, increased "sin" taxes, the middle class. I see this as a way to get people out of the middle class and more dependent on government. As for social security, it is in that lock box, right? at least the IOU's are I guess. I work on commission, great motivator, you don't produce you don't get paid, I control my wages, and like it. I get out of bed to cover an 8 state area, I am gone from my family weeks at a time, but I control my earning potential. So when people sound a little testy about giving more towards the folks who choose not to control their future, I get that too. So are you outraged at the postmaster general's income? I think he is receiving taxpayer money, lets cap his salary while we are at it.

Absolutely right!!!!!!

You forgot why unions were formed in the first place, or don't care. You see, we had to evolve from slave labor, child labor, unsafe conditions, and working conditions that resembled squalor, in order to become a more civilized society. I claim no sights on "Utopia" as you say- I understand it's not realistic. However, it is also unrealistic to think that unbridled capitalism that just continuously sucks the money from one direction to the other, thus leaving little left to circulate (where we are now) is the answer either.

I've already acknowledged that there are abuses in every organization, including unions, but compare those abuses you mention to the ones of the last 8 years by executives at AIG, Lehman Bros., Enron, Peanut Butter Corp of America, The Big Three, and other numerous examples of CEOs and those at the top sucking the life blood out of these companies and leaving them for dead. Then they have the audacity to ask for the gov'ts help. Sorry, I can't lay the blame for that at the feet of the employees, especially when these CEOs are hauling in millions in salaries and millions more in bonuses on top of that- all for poor performance.

Like you, I work my butt off. I produce. I also pay through the nose for healthcare AND I have to fight my insurance company tooth and nail for coverage at times. I shouldn't have to do that. Americans shouldn't have to do that. No one that lives in a civilized society should have to do that. My parents didn't have to do that. People who don't control their futures very well aren't going to live in luxury, but they should not have to worry about whether to pay the insurance premium or the heating bill. Not everyone is going to excell, but that shouldn't sentence them to a life of bankruptcy or death because they can't afford nearly a second mortgage payment for health insurance.

As for the Postmaster General's salary........seems like a red herring right now.

Oh and I did read the stimulas plan as well. Brilliant stuff.

$185,000 for coral reef research and preservation in Maui County, Hawaii

$55,000 in meteorological equipment for Pierce College in Woodland Hills, Calif.

$9.9 million for science enhancement at historically black colleges in South Carolina.

In addition to the basic operations of government, the new budget includes 775 pages of earmarks, funding programs that include local museums, colleges and infrastructure projects.

$764,000 for the Lake George Watershed Protection Initiative in New York, requested by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, New York
Democrat;

$9.9 million for South Carolina's historically black colleges and universities, requested by House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn, South Carolina Democrat;

$1.1 million requested by Senate Republican Conference Chairman Lamar Alexander and Sen. Bob Corker, both of Tennessee, for water treatment plant improvements in Tennessee's Unicoi County, as well as $300,000 for a sewer extension project in another county.

$713,625 Woody Biomass at SUNY-ESF. Walsh and Schumer sponsors

$951,500 Sustainable Las Vegas. Berkeley and Reid sponsors.

$24,000 A+ for Abstinence. Specter is sponsor.

$300,000 Montana World Trade Center. Rehberg sponsor.

$950,000 Myrtle Beach International Trade and Convention Center. Graham sponsor.

$200,000 Oil Region Alliance. Peterson sponsor.

$190,000 Buffalo Bill Historical Center, Cody, WY for digitizing and editing the Cody collection. Barbara Cubin is the sponsor

$143,000 Las Vegas Natural History Museum, Las Vegas, NV, to expand natural history education programs. Sponsored by Harry Reid

$238,000 for the Polynesian Voyaging Society, Honolulu, HI, for educational programs. Sen. Daniel Inouye is the sponsor.

$381,000 for Jazz at Lincoln Center, New York, NY for music education programs. Jerrold Nadler is the sponsor.

Rep. Jerry Lewis of California, the top Republican on the House Appropriations Committee, would spend $3.8 million on a Needles, Calif., highway.

Sen. Thad Cochran of Mississippi, the top Republican on Senate Appropriations, backs earmarks including a $950,000 nature education center in Moss Point, Miss. He defends earmarks.

$2 billion batteries, $800 million for carbon capture projects and more than $3 million for new uniforms for the Transportation Security Administration.

$200,000 for a "tattoo removal violence prevention outreach program."

Unions had an honerable start, needed even, but have way overstepped their bounds as social security, "a chicken in every pot" supplement for retirement not "the" retirement, now it has become a huge weight. Bill Gates is a billionaire, so what? look at all the Microsoft employees who are millionaires, and the 10's of thousand who have jobs. What government program did he take? all his risk and vision. Cuba has their Gates, only his name is Castro. Nobody said it was easy, I have 2 in college, know what I need to do to pay for that? work more, although I am begining to wonder why should my kids strive to better themselves only to be punished if they do well. There should have been no bailouts, bank CEO's should be shipped to Gittmo, Franklin Raines should payback his bonus, I agree with you on that, It is called capitalism.

I guess we made a quick turn toward the stimulus plan. OK, just a note on that- while the items you list make good print, and several of those items could have been effectively argued out of the plan, it amounts to only one-quarter of 1% of the entire stimulus package. There are 535 members of Congress. It's difficult to get everyone under control at the same time. I read the original 647 page H.R. 1 bill, and part of the Senate amendments, but haven't yet had a chance to review the final marked up copy that was signed, so I can't comment on this in detail.

Your kids will not be punished for succeeding. I have not been punished for succeeding. I think my property taxes are a bit too high, but that's a local issue I need to work out with my county. I look at my overall situation since I left college and I can't honestly say that the gov't has "stolen" my wealth. I understand the concept of taxes and why they exist. Of course, I want spending under control, but these are extraordinary times. We may never see another time like this again- at least I hope not.

I will say this- we have some friends who are right-wingers who voted for McCain who are actually excited about the prospects the stimulus could bring, ie. new investment opportunities, tax incentives, and real estate prospects. These are manufactured opportunites, but not free handouts.

I am an American who has lived in teo EU countries. The idea that they live "freely" is somewhat of a joke which varies by country.

They have markedly lower wages, somewhat universal health care which varies by country, and exorbitant taxes on everything.

So... poor people in every EU country get the same care poor people get everywhere (including the US), middle class get basic care but are assigned to doctors and wait, wait, wait, for everything, better-off people have to buy private insurance. We're talking ~60k Euros salary is the cut-off.

They employ MANY more government clerks who are unmotivated and inefficient, who will deliberately not process paperwork because there is no standard way to file a complaint; the time/wait element is incredible!

I suggest before anyone supports the socialist agenda here he/she goes to live in Europe for at least one year.

Quite a lot of good discussion, but because we all understand so little and assume so much, we're probably ALL wrong.

Mbrown49, your arguments and reasoning sound good, but the way you assemble the content isn't. You are promoting Socialism as a form of govenment and economy, yet you are unwilling to admit that we are already far more socialist now than at any point in our past. In fact, the entire time-frame for the blame being bandied about has been more socialist than free. It has been rather steadily moving in that direction since America lost the last revolution, 150 years ago.

You also assume (possibly due to your trust in government) that taxes paid for a particular reason are spent for that reason. The truth is, all the tax monies (including SS) go into the same basket and CONGRESS (for those who blame Presidents) decide who gets what and how much.

I am curious - where do you keep your retirement, that it's out of the hands of "the crooks on Wall St."? Without the banking and investment communities involved, you can't be getting much interest.

Then we get to unions. Unions are Socialist - can't help it, that's what they are - we could argue 'til we're blue, but they fit the mold with a click. That's not to say they are bad, but the animus against unions today is generally because the membership (the People) have let many of them grow totally out-of-hand: the same as we've been doing with our governments. The problem with unions is a problem with people; if you have guarantees of work, wages, etc - i.e. no risk - you have no real incentive. The unions weak spot is that they must defend and support mediocrity - and damp down incentive - in order to be "fair" to everyone.

That is not where we're going - Obama or not - it is where we are; where it seems the people of America want to be.

We sure as hell don't want to be free

Look at our European counterparts, they are happy and live very efficiently and freely

I beg to disagree. Do you actually know anyone who lives in Sweden, of for that matter anywere in the EU? They would argue with your perception of efficiently and freely.

So far we still have some freedom in the US, though I fear the last of that will be taken from us in the next <8 years.

Ask yourself "Why are we 'such world leaders'?" - Free market, democracy, capitalism.

AveFamilyGuy, I know many Europeans and they do have a higher standard of living than we do, especially when it comes to healthcare, vacation, etc.

Obama's intention is to take us into the new century, not back into the dark ages where the republicans have led us.

Let's use Europe as an example... France just recently elected a conservative to lead their country because they realized Socialism was burying them. Germany just recently elected a conservative because socialism mas hurting Germany. Gordon Brown in the UK is less popular than Bush ever was here and he'll be out soon and will be replaced by a conservative because, oddly enough, socialistic tendencies have hurt the UK too.

For the first time in my life I wish we could learn from the Europeans. How many times does Socialism have to be tried before we realize that gov'y can not be the saviour of an economy based on the free market. Gov't makes decisions that are not based on who is best or works the hardest... they make decisions based on "fairness" which usually is anything BUT fair.

Two words: Rationed Healthcare

No, this is not a spin, nor is it just politics. It is in the Stimulus Bill, word for word. It is in Daschle's book. it is modeled off the British and Canadian system of healthcare. If moving into the "New Century" is rationing healthcare because "its not worth the government's money" then count me out. You'll soon understand how terrible a single payer system is when your grandmother gets turned down for a procedure.

Not that Bush did any better regarding healthcare, but instead of finding an actual solution, Obama is preying on the people's desire to vote themselves free gifts.

My oldest son currently lives in France. He has health care and the cost of living is less, however getting anything acomplished in less than 2 months is impossible due to government bureaucracy. He works in education and has been waiting 6 weeks for his paycheck because of a strike. He also is required to have all sorts of IDs and be prepared to wait whenever one needs changing. There are pros and cons to everything and most of my ancestors came here because they did not want someone else directing their lives. Freedom sucks at times because it allows you to fail. It would be nice to have a balance however, as a small business owner I would rather the government would not tarriff, tax and regulate me to death. PS to all workers out there who wonder why you're not getting paid more- everytime I give you a wage increase I pay an increased shadow tax to the government. If you earn $ 10/hr, you pay taxes and I pay taxes that you never see to the Feds and State for unemployment and other income tax. This helps if you become unemployed, but you never get the money and I can not hire another employee because I can not afford to. There is no such thing as a free lunch!

Then what happens when the producers and tax payers are effected and revenues decrease. It amazes me how the takers are ingrates who denigrate the sources of the paying tax base but thrive on the proceeds of others labor and success.

Two words: Rationed Healthcare

I don't know anyone who doesn't have Rationed Healthcare now, DanMan.

Unless you have more money than God, you don't either. <sarcasm

My husband and I pay over $800 a month for health insurance for the two of us, and we have rationed healthcare--with one of the best HMOs in the area, that gets sued all the time for not covering something its members want and think they are entitled to.

Two of my co-worker's in the past 10 years whined long and loud because the HMO didn't cover every dime of their multiple fertility treatments--only some of the first 2 tries.

Nobody wants to hear that what they need or want won't be covered, but there has never been a time that healthcare wasn't rationed for anyone who couldn't pay for every single thing they needed or wanted.

And all the uninsured who end up in ER get ruinously expensive treatment that we foot the bill for, but they don't get what they need, when they need it. Even hospitals that "aren't allowed to turn away" the uninsured operate within the constraints of $$, including (in some publicized cases) literally dumping patients on the street when they couldn't provide beds (or care) for them any longer, and shutting down ER completely when they couldn't recoup enough of the sky-high costs to keep them open.

Bush's "contribution" to healthcare was to provide a nice windfall for the pharmaceutical companies, to (nudge nudge wink wink) help out seniors with a prescription drug benefit. The fact that both sides of the aisle in Congress, and even #%!(!)#! AARP went along with it didn't fool anyone I know. The Fed had to spend massively for advertising after it was passed to try to convince seniors to sign up for it. Our HMO dropped some of the most reasonably priced (and most prescribed) prescription drugs off its formulary because the drug companies wouldn't bother negotiating reasonable prices with it, after the Fed became their favorite customer.

Obama will be doing better than that if he manages to reserve some of the benefit to citizens rather than stuffing even more profits down the pants of large corporations.

Go work and live overseas for just a while ... a year maybe. Then write again. Or, talk with someone who has relatives in France, England, Belgium, Germany, Australia...

Our European counterparts are happy and living efficiently and freely??

Based on what? That they are already at the advanced stage of socialism that you want?

And where our government is surely taking us?

You better think again! It is not genius. You stick it too the guys who own your workplace and you won't have a place to work. They will pack it up, equipment and all and move it all out of our country.

MRBrown - you are paying increased taxes already. Yes, gasoline went down but while it was going down the Fed. Gov. added more gasoline tax per gallon already. So while you were thinking how great it was to be paying less they snuck right in and added more tax. Your gasoline would be 25 cents cheaper if they hadn't. And that pack of cigarette went up 61 cents to cover HEALTHCARE which also was already in the Stimulus Package and now Obama wants 638B more for HEALTHCARE.

You say only the rich are getting higher taxes. Not true. they have already made over a hundred changes in taxables to increase their taxes and they aren't all on the rich. They raised Medicare again this year too. Ask the little old lady next door -

Well said, Truthswake. Many people don't understand we can't go back to how things were. We have never had a global economy, we do now, whether folks like it or not.

It seems the rightwing folks up here think an old man who wanted business-as-usual would have done a better job than Obama, which is stunning to me in its ignorance.

The GOP has lost most of its power, and continues to do so by choosing clownish leaders such as Jindal and Palin, so I can understand the frustration of the rightwingers.

In light of that, you'd think they would come up with a plan and demand better leaders instead of spending all their time having hysterical meltdowns. I've never seen such needless panic. If you want something to panic about, righties, try global warming or the depression the shrub left us in. Help fix it or shut up. The hissy fits are just wasted energy.

I suggest that those of you who adore European socialism simply move there for a year or two. Live in that system. Enjoy its wonders and advantages. Then come back and tell everyone how wonderful it is. In other words, take the brave new world on a trial run.

I love how "the rich" get skewered all the time. Who exactly ARE the rich? Those who earn $250,000 and up? What about if they live in cities with a huge cost of living that eats up that salary? Small business owners who create 80% of new jobs in this country and who often go without pay in order to meet the payroll? Or are the "rich" simply those who have worked long and hard enough to have a house, car, and schooling for their kids?

The multimillionaires will simply find new and better ways to NOT pay taxes. They'll move, hide the money overseas, or whatever. They didn't become multimillionaires by being stupid and giving away their earnings.

Then the word "rich" will be redefined and will keep being redefined until every working person is "rich." When people realize that they can work their tails off and get nothing in return, either they'll quit working or move elsewhere.

Then who will you resent when we're all broke from paying our taxes like good little rich people and you're suddenly "rich"?

There IS real poverty in this country. There is also a faction of the 'poor' wearing gold jewelry, cell phones hanging off their ears and expensive cars parked in the inner city. Please explain the reality of that scenario. George Bush in NO WAY bears sole responsibilty for this mess. Look to your precious Clinton and Carter whose entitlement programs and ideas about the 'RIGHT' to own a home started it. Read your history.

FYI Jacks, it was Democratic Pres. Clinton who signed a bill in the mid 90s to take away the safe guards placed upon banks because of the use and abuse of mortgages as investments that lead to the Great Depression NOT BUSH and the Republicans. Since then uncontrolled mortgage selling, trading and investing in the stock market got us into much of this high financial MESS and the need for all the bailout of the banks and failed investment groups.

The poverty discrimination in this country must stop.

Absolutely! Obama should stop destroying jobs for the poor by punishing people that provide jobs. When gov't gives money to people for not working it encourages the poor to remain poor.

Obama is working for the people, and if there are those out there that are incapable of seeing past self-interest groups, I send my condolences as I believe what comes around goes around.

Obama is NOT working for the people. 65% of the stimulus bill went to bolster gov't jobs and Unions... he paid hundreds of billions of dollars to the people that got him elected. Aren't those considered special interests?

This Republican, George Bush created this mess which took 8 years and waving a magic wand is not going to clean it up, and further anyone that supported Bush should suck it up, put their big kid panties on and accept some responsibility for supporting such conditions in the first place and not complain now that it is time to clean up this mess.

It's sad to me that people believe this was caused by G.W. I think that it was aplified by G.W. spending so much money on stupid entitlement programs. Entitlement programs hurt the recipients and hurt the people that work to pay for them. HOWEVER... The problem was created by Jimmy Carter and the Community Reinvestment Act that had as a goal to create home ownership for people who could not afford it. It was expanded by Bush 41 and by Clinton. When Republicans tried to enact regulations on Freddie and Fannie 3 yrs ago they were called racist because Harold Raines (CEO of Fannie Mae) is a black liberal. So make up your mind... are we racist because we want to point out problems or are we careless and destructive because we aren't willing to be called racists and stand up to the Democrats in Congress?

Heres a clue for all of you that blame bush for the situation or country is in today. The number one reason for our jobs going accrossed the border to mexico and china and other countries is not because our health care Its because of NAFTA and guess who passed and signed that into law. For those of you that dont know (clinton DEM)

Business is formed to make a living and hopefully in the end make a profit. And those of us that own one know the risks that are taken to have one. Business owners work on the average of up to 80 hours a week if not more to make the money that we do and most important to be able to create jobs and support the communities an the families that make up that community. The most important thing this country needs right now is JOBS. Taxing businesses more only results in one thing ( businesses that wont make a profit because of taxes or being made to pay for health care means companies will freeze hiring because if there is no profit in business there is no sense in working your fingers to the bone for nothing.)

Why is it that If we want to sell something in china that product has to be made in china and produce by chinese Labor. Can you imagine if we had the same trade agreement with china or mexico or any of the companies that import products into this country. We diffentlly would not be in the position we are in now.

I Believe President obama called that Protectionism I call that fair

Well said. Thats the history lesson. Wait for Obama's next assault on the 1st amendment (Un-Fairness - Fairness doctrine) 2nd Amendment (Gun owners registration) and Fourth amendments which would allow your residence to be searched if you are a firearm owner.

Can anyone explain to me in detail how GWB created this mess?

and by the House 362-57). Clinton had to sign it.

uhh??? I think Bush was the minority, who do you think does the voting to pass the Bills that got us into this mess? If you look at the congress and the senates during his administration, the majority of the votes were Democrats or "liberals" How can you explain the the faults on Bush? He can either veto it or signed and if he vetoed it, the house will find a way to pass it.

Obviously, my comment didn't come through in its entirety.

sel-91549 is yet another historical revisionist.

The Gramm-Leach-Bliley act to which you refer was voted into law by a vast republican majority.

The bill was passed by the Senate 90-8 and by the House 362-57. A REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.

This legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999, not the mid-'90's.

You tell me: Did Clinton have a choice of whether or not to sign it?

Mark L, that's what the google is for. Use it.

With all due respect, the deregulation was started by Carter (with the airlines) and greatly added to by Clinton (who made a few million in the doing). Bush/CHENEY caused many problems but had nothing to do with this. I voted NOT for any of them nor for any socialist-leaning regime. Gramm-Leach-Bliley was enacted on a bipartisan basis and Clinton absolutely had veto power which he failed to use (and was sharply criticised for).

If I recall correctly, in 2004 the Senate had 51 Republicans and 49 Democrats. The House had 230 Republicans, 202 Democrats, 1 Independent, and 2 in LA had such a close election they had a revote. Certainly not an overwhelming majority.

I am so for a new party - who is with me?

You have no idea what your talking about do you kjacks. everyone is to blame for this, carter, clinton, greenspan, bush's, dodd, pelosi, good ole Barney Frank and the greedy wanting something for nothing, I'm entitled americans......

Who is the author of that? I was going to read that but never found the author's name...?

Ayn Rand

Atlas Shrugged is so flawed as far as real life. Its a good FICTIONAL novel, but everyone who's acting as if this woman is the next L. Ron Hubbard of the right is seriously out of their minds. Ridiculous.

15 or 20 years ago I read that Atlas Shrugged was the second most
published title behind the Bible. and you say the next L.Ron Hubbard?
and its FLAWED? Did you actually read it? Or just buy a copy to impress
your friend.

If you want to talk about a book that is playing itself out now, try reading fleeced...

is that the title? " Fleeced" author?

Yes, Dick Morris is the author.

Not impressed - so by your logic, David Copperfield could be seriously considered as a basis for a model of government because it was popular? Fiction is fiction.

Objectivism is a crappy, selfish and ridiculous political philosophy.

Helen, he was suggesting that Ayn Rand might one day be as known as L Ron Hubbard.

My point is that her book already is well known.

Objectivism is a non fictional philosophy, what is fictional is that

socialism ( collectivism ) works. You apparently follow Copperfield?

No, I just suggested a popular fictional work w/political leanings. Just because something is well-known does not mean it should be considered a basis for government.

I follow Copperfield? What does that even mean?

No, I'm a liberal.

I'm just curious. Can anyone tell me whether or not Rush Limbaugh was talking about Ayn Rand today?

The simple fact that you even asked that question, is so typical of lazy liberals. Is it so hard to believe that intelligent people actually think for themselves and just by chance have all read Atlas Shrugged and have drawn the same conclusions. You liberals are all so fascinated and I think, a little afraid of Rush Limbaugh, you are always bringing him up...why? I bet that is where you get your information from and then spew out the exact opposite because you are too lazy to think on your own. Point--you elected Obama! He fooled all of you!

you got that right. He is an elitiest--do as I say but not as I do.

Lary -- How can you criticize Obama's parties? They obviously celebrate his greatness. Don't you know he does a Loaves and Fishes routine so the grocery bill is almost nil? Don't you know that for his next trick he'll walk on water?

He's already done a great Loaves and Fishes routine with his spending proposals.

I hope you are consistent enough to have complained about cost whenever the shrub held his expensive inaugural festivities or parties. Did you? Or are you guilty of bias?

It was mentioned Tuesday night and the last time I checked, Haliburton lost their contract is now being investigated by the Dept of Justice.

Yes...it really sounds like you are competent enough to whip out a 140 page budget outline and can do much better, please.

This is the time for the common people. The rich who have been criminal with their money (not those that worked hard) will be dragged out the in open. That means big corporations that do nothing but act as if just because they are big and/or longstanding they should just keep getting handouts. The time of the ordinary citizen has come.

giuliag why do the ones that work and succeed own you anything? Let's see you get a education, you work and but together a company , you follow the rules, you pay adequate wages for the skill set, provide health insurance but somebody like you thinks they are en tittled to a bigger share of the profits because you are the "common people" well WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO EARN IT? What is wrong is that you think is owned to you, well it's not , neither the constitution or life assure success.

Agreed; the basic difference in so much of this national dialogue about spending and who gets what is rooted in the notion that too many have no clue as to what freedom and liberty really mean. They really believe that somehow they are owed healthcare, a job, a wage they like, a house where they want live, and on and on.. is mentality that Obama is playing like a fiddle for the votes and power that it brings. But in getting their "dues" they are in fact holding a gun to someone elses's head and taking their money. It's robbery. And its self-destructing system.

Ivonne- Corporations in America have been piulling the wool over our eyes for decades. Using lobbyists to keep wages down, bash apart unions (so you're so fearful of losing your job that you don't complain about your crappy wages). You think you paid your employees a decent wage? Maybe compared to the staus quo, but the status quo is about 20 years behind the inflation curve at this point. You are a sheep, put your head down and keep doing what you're doing, and you'll keep getting what your getting. People have realized that we can be a better country. We realize that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Every employee of your company has contributed to make your company successful, that's WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO EARN IT. The common people DO work hard, and they get paid a pittance to do so. It's time for you to wake up and realize that every American deserves fair treatment and pay.

Morgan R. - So you are saying that a doctor that has gone to school for 12 years with endless hours of study and surmounting school bills should be taxed higher then a road worker that works the average 8 to 10 hour day? These rich that struggled to get to where they are now earned that paycheck that they receive, and get the same protection from the government as the road worker but pay more for it is unfair...

Ivonne-411507: I gather that you are the exact type of person that needed to get that fancy piece of paper (a college degree) just so that you could convince the world, and yourself, that you are smart. One can assume from reading your posts that you most certainly did not major in English Lit. If you are going to assault us with your political views, then the least that you could do is proofread before posting.

Carol, not sure you know what your talking about. I have friends in Canada and family living in London and both have had children thier and complications. They rave about the health care system there and the fact that they are being covered, treated and and not going broke in the process. I have family being treated oversee with MS and they received better care and more advanced treatment then when they lived in the US and were being covered here. We will not even get started on the paperwork and time they save over seas and if they get sent to another doctor for treatment their records go right with them with the doctors clicking on the computers. We call ourselves industrialize and so much better but after spending time with them and learning about London and Canada systems no wonder America is the only industrialized country still not using Socialized medicine. Maybe we are behind in another system just like education.

Copsis :the ultimate weapon of the zealots is putting down the opposition. Sorry if my English offends you, but it happens to be my second language. I love when people post about unions, trust me they are not the knights in shining armor you make them to be. Please go look at growth in states with right to work vs states that protect unions. The results will surprise you. And yes I have not one but two diplomas, which is irrelevant to the conversation.

Some Tax levels during FDR were 100% taxation after the first $25,000. This was to pay for the war spending. Tariffs are illegal because we have free trade agreements. They are also a bad idea because we can raise the prices of imports but then other countries will just do the same on our exports, making everything more expensive. Instead, why not cut taxes on our own domestic goods. Then everything is less expensive (Read: It's better for the poor). So if that's what you want, then fine. Just count me out. And just like FDR, we'll probably have our treasury secretary go before congress and tell them how all the spending didn't work. Just wait for the 17-25% unemployment, and then tell me how we should go back to FDR era policies. That was 25% unemployment circa 1938.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan, I could actually could care less about fighting those wars. let those people fight for their own freedom. I did my time in Iraq. Maybe we should just leave.

What?....Your speaking of the poor baby boomers right? The generation that grew up in the "Land of Milk and Honey". I work very very long days as a small business owner,my wife is a nurse and we still can't afford health insurance! OMG he's taxing the rich!! OMG the small business owners will go broke! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! I cast my vote this year for CHANGE, as did the MAJORITY of the PEOPLE. Maybe someday I'll be able to afford a glass of milk and a spoon of honey.

My wife and I have worked for 35+ years and have never asked for anything from the government. 3 years ago we filed for bankruptcy not because we lost our jobs, but because my wife contracted MS and the medical bills destroyed us. I don't even go to the doctor for myself anymore, despite having "good" employer provided health insurance.

Between the horrendous co-pays and hidden charges then the insurance company not paying what they said they would, I can't afford to be sick. There's something wrong with the system when hard working people WHO HAVE INSURANCE can't even afford to go to the doctor anymore.

My father is retired military and both my mother and him have to pay over 92.00 a month for medicare. So if medicare isn't paying could my parents save 184.00 amonth? Would any of our senior citizens have to pay for medicare if they won't be able to use, since doctors will drop them all like a hot potato.

Yes Health Insurance is next to the anti crist, just like credit cards. But instead of reading what you think you are getting, read the fine print. Most insurance companies spell out exactly what your paying for. It's just like law, we don't understand.... but we get the hint, bunch of crooks, just like our government

Some of these comments are so absurd they barely need to be addressed.

Obama is not looking to kill off the old. H#ll, he can't make some of you happy. First he's a baby killer and now he's killing off the old. Growup and turn off Fox News for a moment. Think for yourself.

Our medical care system in this country is a disaster. We pay more than any civilized country, but we are not the most healthy.

My medical insurance goes up every year even though we have never had anything close to a major claim. Shoot, we don't even use up the five doctors co-pay per person each year! Medical costs keep rising and unnecessary procedures are done. Lawyers make a fortunate suing doctors; doctors insurance rates go up; they pass on the cost to the patient; the patient's insurance rates go up. Seems the only ones making any progress is our lawyers. Tort reform is necessary!

And just so you all know, in England there is socialized medicine and it doesn't necessary work well, but at least everyone can get care if they need it. If they want, they can go to "private" doctors still. Socialized medicine doesn't make private practice illegal. So if you want to pay for your 90 year old grandmother to have knee surgery (after it's deemed unnecessary by the system) you can pay for it personally.

I look at all the surgeries my mother-in-law has had and how unnecessary some of it was. And all of us paid for it through Medicare. Extending a life beyond there being any quality of life serves no one.

You want to make medical care cheaper, than get the government hands out of it.

Thank God for Fox News. Otherwise we would be told that Obama walks on water and will magically fix all our problems...

Oh yeah, Rick, we all saw how well that worked in the banking and mortgage industry.

Remember, it was the government pressuring these subprime loans that started it.

Yeah. Right.

in addition to that, we bailed out the banks that are headed by greedy CEOs who put millions in their pockets, who laid off workers when their bonuses are at stake, who put us in this dire predicament, who asked for taxpayers money to bail them out, who send jobs offshore to line their pockets with more millions.

The least the government can do is before receiving the bailout money, require them to bring back the jobs they send offshore that made those countries rich, made the owners of companies be in the top 10 billionaires of the word. See how the economy improves very quickly if they bring back millions of jobs that are offshore back in the United States.

it is about time the workers in this country get taken care of. is it about time workers and their families learn to boycott these corporations that are moving US jobs overseas. It is time to stop the bleeding of hard working Americans.

I'm a small business owner, but, I will shut it down and go out of business before it will go union, and there are alot of others like me... It's my business and my employees have a choice.. They can either take the pay I offer or go on down the road... I will not let a union dictate to me what I will pay my employees...

The bailouts and stimulus packages are what will eventually tank our country's economy. We are a nation built on capitalism, but the government is interfering with the natural ebb and flow of the capitalism tide. We're going to hit a second Great Depression, and these packages are going to make it worse. Why haven't we learned from our own previous mistakes? Didn't FDR try to tax the country out of the Depression? Did it work?? NO!!

Yes, and what did the Republicans do this past 8 years? Spend, spend, blame. Hello? Think before you speak.

Mr. Obama has spent more in 30 days than any other president in US history. He is a joke.

For starters, he has not spent 3 trillion and you never new what Bush was spending because they hid it in "Emergency Funding".

Kjacks08 - I think you need to look into a little U.S. history, particularly the last 8 years and focus on Congress. Democrats have been in control since 2002. They received some of the worst ratings and were typically consistently lower than former Pres. Bush. Study, research then reply.

And just because Bush and the GOP spent a whole bunch of money, doesn't make it right. I never agreed to all the spending Bush allowed.

I didn't agree with the spending then, and it certainly don't agree with it now. And on that line of thought: If Bush and GOP spent a lot of money, and we voted for hope and change, where is the change? I guess the change for politics as usual is to spend twice as much...

Yes, the Republicans did spend. They started acting like Democrats so they were voted out because they quit being what the Republican party stands for. Personal responsibility.

Exactly right. Fiscal conservatism and less government always works for the better.

Independantarded - Prior to the 2006 elections, the Republicans held majority in Congress and Senate for 28 years (almost consecutively). Talk about knowing history, it's not history it's current events and you are woefully ignorant.

And the DOW was at 14,000 in 2006 and we were safe and had good jobs.

Bush had no option but to try to get us out of the mess Clinton got us into. Obama is is a puppet on a string and clinton is in charge of pulling the strings. When are you gonna realize this mess started way before bush came into office. We are doomed for 4 years, hopefully the country will realize that and not re-elect the "money spender". and its not even his money he is spending, it is ours and he did not even ask!!!!!!!

This is more appropriations than stimulus. Bush, ha ha, There is a U Tube of him warning

congress of the fannie and freddie train wreck 5 yrs ago. American's remember this. the

recession, was brought to us by  our government.  Keep printing money, you fools.

People voted for change in 06 and the democratically controlled congress orchestrated

this fiasco along with the country clubin gop'ers. DEM REP. Labels they use to keep the people divided.

Well said. I hope more American will remember the U-tube that president Bush warn the congress regarding this mess when the congress wanted to do NOTHING!! Don't blame Bush when the mindset of the majority in congress is give away (Socialistic).

You're funny, barb:

Bush had no option but to try to get us out of the mess Clinton got us into.

Well, yeah--and you can see where cutting taxes (especially for the people and corporations who have most of the money and are sending jobs overseas,) and invading and occupying a country that didn't attack us, posed no imminent threat to us and wasn't behind 9/11 to the tune of nearly $10 B a month--6 years later--would be a great way to get us out of that mess.

Yeah. What mess was that? That "spend and borrow" was going to help? Hmm? Because maybe it's just me, but it looks like President Obama has inherited a REALLY big mess. Just sayin'.

prez obama is the mess!!!!!!

Bush had no option but to try to get us out of the mess Clinton got us into.

What mess was that?

prez obama is the mess!!!!!!

I see. And Bush tried to get us out of that, how?

ADHD much?

I am not glad that Obama is president, but I don't know that McCain would have had better answers. I do hope he would have curbed the social programs. Both parties need to own up to their responsibility in the mess. But just because the Republicans voted against the stimulus does not make them any more obstructionist than the Dems were the last 2 year. Votes have been cast along party lines for the last 10 years. This is just more of the same from both parties. What scares me the most is that now we have basically a one party system, not a good thing no matter who is in control.

my thoughts exactly. Those who mention socialism are scorned, but the only difference between socialism and communism is that communism has 1 party rule. How would you like to have Queen Nancy dictating your life, or Barney, Harry, etc. The really sad thing is that they can do this to all of us as any 3 Americans could hardly agree on anything - we are our own worst enemy and allow them to herd us as lemmings.

Responsible AND realistic in the face of an unreal liberal political/ social agenda

Responsibility...yes. I wish I heard our new administration taking some ownership in their part of this mess. What seems to be happening instead is akin to a dying man who need CPR but is instead getting a face lift, lipo-suction, new hair implants, and a tummy tuck -- all things that are nice when the patient's heart is still beating. Wrong response at the wrong time results in death.

I agree with you, MDM. Those opposing the bill, or at least those i have spoken with, are the ones who have shown a desire to be responsible for their own actions. If they go to school and earn a degree, they feel as though that responsible choice has lead them to positive benefits. They also believe that if an individual does not bother to learn about budgeting or basic economics, that the person should be held accountable for their actions.

Those who I have heard oppose this have not been so much about "don't take whats mine" or "starve the poor" as much as they have been about "why did I work so hard if its only going to be taken away?" and "why should I support someone who has made poor decisions?"

On the other hand, those who I have spoken to who firmly support bailouts are those who have said "Its not fair that CEOs make so much money" and "Its not fair that poor kids are only given cold cheese sandwiches by the schools"

My question is: When was life ever fair? Your reap what you sew. If I make the decision to purchase a home I can't pay for, I deserve to lose that home when the bills come due. If I do not go to school and get an education, I do not deserve a well paying job more than, or as much as, the person who did go to school. Looking at someone else, particularly a large body of people who are entirely unaware of my circumstances, and asking them to save me is like walking up to a person on the street and saying "You don't know me, but I can't pay my house payment. Pay it for me?"

I wish more American had your common sense Sidona, especially during the elections.