You pay for a certain amount of space (One seat) if you don't use all of the "space" then why would you expect to get a discount. Again you are paying for one seat.

If you need to use more than that amount of space and use up someone else's "space" then maybe you should be paying that person for taking his/her space...

Exactly. As the mother of three small children, I don't pay a percentage of the seat that they take up. You pay for the seat you take up. Therefore, if your body cannot fit into ONE seat, you pay for TWO seats. For those who do not agree, find a different means of transportation.

Mother-of-three-young-girls... as long as I don't have to put up with your three small children making my flight a living hell.

No. Fares are now so low that everybody pays the same prices for each individual seat. If you want an extra seat for your violin, guitar, whatever, you pay the same fare for the second seat that you do for your own seat. Airlines are in the business to make money by carrying passengers. They can not give away their product - an airline seat from "here" to "there".

I bet every person on a plane pays a different rate for the seat.

childern shouldn't be allowed on planes!

I agree totally! Childern are absolutely frightening!

Children, on the other hand, I can live with.

I am not "plus-sized" but I am on the tall side. Airlines have made the seats so tiny and so close together that even the average person is cramped. It is all in the name of trying to get more money from more people for less and less space and fewer and fewer services. Not all people who are large are that way because of out of control eating and it is ignorant to believe that. I would rather sit next to a large, but clean and pleasant person, than a thin person with poor hygiene. Why don't the airlines screen people for bad breath or the last time they bathed? And kids? Don't get me started. The airlines in the country are a disgrace and the size of the seats is only a part of it. THis is just an attempt by another airline to grab a little more cash by singling out a group of people. I say charge a fee for each day of not bathing or brushing of teeth before a flight and for each decibel of some kid screaming through the whole flight. That will raise revenue fast. Besides, the closer two people have to sit together, the more United can claim to be the "Friendly Skies" Just sayin'

Fazool - Great points! I totally agree.

Great points! I just had to deal with a persaon who had very poor hygiene a few weeks ago. He smelled sooo bad. (The sad thing is my friend and I were sick-noses clogged up-and could still smell it.)

Fazool,

Your height is not a choice...obesity generally is. I think that people need to live with the choices they make. Deciding to be obese (and you make that decision by not exercising and eating poorly) means that you might have to decide to buy an extra seat. However for the tiny minority who have a natural reason for not fitting....obesity due to illness or genetically tall people could have a medical exemption from the payment rule. As height is natural Xi Shun who is 7.9ft tall could get a medical exception and two seats. It is kind of like how we are all willing to make small sacrifices for the disabled. If you require some special treatment that we can't enjoy ourselves because of an eroneous circumstance that you did not engineer we will accomodate, but not if you just want to have the best of all worlds. For example I would delay a road trip for a friend with food poisoning who was too sick to travel that day but not for one who was sick with a hangover.

April,

I couldnt disagree more. Your position is, IMHO, indefensable. With your logic, you could justify an airline charging an African American more because (fill in your exuse), or a gay person, or a student whose books on his lap ooze over just the teensiest little bit to "your space"...

Of course that is a ridiculous scenario...it is meant to be. Just like your "I think you are fat therefore you should have to pay more" logic. It is, frankly, none of your business why a person is "of size"; and your pontificating about it only shows, again, IMHO, ignorance. Which, of course, the airlines should charge more for.

:)

This is not a very good argument. Some of us have been fighting for so long to make it a requirement for children to have seats for safety reasons. Now you want to take things out of context and compare children to overweight people taking up others' paid seating space. If a rather large person was taking up that extra space your child had in his/her seat I'm sure you would be the first to recognize the problem. Be realistic!

Wow! I dont think you made one point through that whole rant.

The problem with children either on parents' laps or in a seat by themselves is that they don't stay there -- as a former road warrior of 10 years, it has been my experience that parents are woefully unaware of how annoying their "precious" trophy is when "it" is screaming and jumping, etc. Flying is stressful enough without screaming children or oozers spilling all over me.

When did this become a discussion about children on airplanes? Quit your whining.

Your comment is ridiculous because your child has the right to the entire seat, not spill over into my seat. Get it? So why would you even ask if your child should get a discount because he doesn't use the entire seat? What a dunce you are and oh by the way...would you like some cheese with that WHINE?

No, this simply means that your child has the benefit of more seat to jump up and down on while screaming and crying, in between bouts of puking and throwing stuff.

Sorry to get off the subject, but for all those bitching about children on planes, it is evident you should not procreate. It appears nature is making sure your hateful, negative, self-absorbent bloodline ends here (that is, if you haven't been ignorant enough to have a few of your own already...God forbid). And...did you pop out of your momma's womb as a grown adult? You were children at one point as well...as such, I am sure model behavior was most likely present at all times. Village idiots.

Why Bother indeed. You were so busy casting insults that you missed the point of the complaint. We're not saying people shouldn't have kids. We're saying they shouldn't bring their small children on airplanes.

"What I really don't get is if there are no available seats on a plane for the large person to use for free, what are they going to make them pay for? If the empty seat doesn't exist in the first place, how can they pay for one? That makes entirely no sense at all."

Wow - someone else noticed this illogical statement also. Figure this one out.

I agree that seat prices should be pro-rated for height and weight of each and every passenger. There could be seating areas which would accomodate children (lowest price) small adults, medium adults, very large adults. Why on earth not?

As a post above mentioned weight = higher fuel consumption so extra luggage, extra space could also = extra cost to fly.

Like your <5 yr old, my children do not "take up" their entire seat, but they get to enjoy the extra space-a relative first class if you will. Wait, I shouldn't say that or United might get the idea to charge 1st class fares to smaller passengers because they enjoy more room around them...

Would you let an extra large family use part of your hotel room? But, on the other hand, if you rent a hotel room, but don't watch the TV, should you get a discount because you "didn't use the entire room?"

Last time I checked that is discrimination and in this country that is supposedly illegal. I am not what you would call skinny but I can still fit in those seats that were made for someone 5'8" 150 lbs. I am 6'3" 325 lbs. and even when I was 220, 230lbs the seats were still a problem. Let me guess everyone that said yes to this is probably fairly lean and a few inches under 6'. It just seems to me that every major corporation that has anything to do with transportation (ie. cars, planes, buses) just don't care about anyones comfort that does not fit into a certain range. I've got friends that are considered average size that complain about flying because of the seats.

I agree airline seats are too small - but if you need more than one seat - you pay for more than 1 seat! I have a 5 year-old and I have to pay for a full seat - even though he only takes up 1/2 of it! Once a child reaches 2 years old you have to pay for a full seat - and they spend the majority of the flight in your lap. I'm not discriminating against larger people and I'm not rude (like others on here who want to assume you eat too much), but why should I give up my limited space to accommodate someone who needs 1/2 of my seat because of their size? I think the same should be true for buses as well.

If you fit into a seat then you pay for a seat. If you can't fit into a seat than you should pay for how many seats you can fit into. How hard is that?

If a person is traveling with a child under 5, they should also have to pay more. The kid may be small but the screaming, kicking and hitting the seat in front of them is very annoying to the other passengers. Airlines should either have special flights or special (cordoned off) areas of the plane for travellers with children.

Bethcat: I feel your pain and have on ocassion shared it as well. Being a DOD employee, I fly often and have on several trips been crushed by the "heavies". Nothing personal against these folks but the extra girth should be in my seat nor a hindrance to free movement this creating a safety hazard. Mormally the exit row is wider, put those folks there. Additional point is, I am 6foot 230 pounds and thoes airline seats are snug even for me!

Exit row seating isn't the solution. Those in those must be willing and able to assist staff in an emergency evacuation. Some big people would be too unhealthy to do that.

I have been in the position of having to cede part of my seat to an overweight person. It was extremely uncomfortable. If I bring my grandchild I need to pay for a seat, not push my seatmate out of the way.

Some people have a weight problem that is medical, it's not as easy as you think. I need an extender because I need an extra 2 inches. Stewardess have always been so kind. And yes, it is embarassing to ask for an extender. Why can't airlines make bigger seats, for a little more money. Or have a section for larger people?

bethcat, that is HORRIBLE that they wouldn't move to let you use the bathroom! And yes, the person in the middle seat usually winds up the worst off in these situations. You paid for an entire seat, but it sounds like you only got about half that. I swear, sometimes I wish the armrests would be replaced by something larger that one could extend to prevent spillover. Yes, I know that sound childish (reminds me of my brother and I drawing a line down the middle of the backseat of the car when we were kids), but still...

I agree with the majority of other posters. Someone who needs two seats should purchase two seats. I do think they should be sold at a deep discount, though, so that a passenger who has already paid an expensive last-minute fare should not see that doubled. After all, this is an accommodation made for persons of size (some of whom are heavy due to genuine disability), not an election by a second passenger to travel at the last minute.

To those inclined to push back based upon the fact that obesity is a health condition, I would respond by saying that a lot of people suffer from heath conditions that are easily aggravated by cramped conditions. I have a co-worker who tries to avoid air travel because of a back injury that makes the experience very uncomfortable - I would imagine that squeezing his shoulders together for 4+ hours would make a trip downright painful. Of course, you can add poor circulation, etc. to the list. I imagine that those people count on having all their seat space at their disposal so that they can position themselves without pain. Really unfair for them (and us) to get squeezed after paying the same fare as everyone else.

I see comments like "these people". What are we talking about... illegal aliens. Their people. One glaring problem I see as a very frequent flyer is that the airlines are crushing people into smaller seats to maximise profits. A lot of planes I fly on are not problems then some are simply jammed together and the stupid seat belt barely fits around an adult. Fly Jet Blue some time. They have spaced the seats out where there is no problem for just about anyone to fly with them.

Oh, please... We all have to deal with unpleasantries from time to time. DEAL WITH IT and stop whining about "them". I have had to deal with fat people, smelly people, and noisy kids with overly coddling parents on very long flights. Yes, it's unpleasant, but it's just a few hours worth out of your life and when the flight is over, so is your "ordeal".

Deal with it and move on, and stop kvetching about every little minor inconvenience.

I so agree with bckm.  People are so self centered these days.  Get over yourselves and start to think about others for a change.  People on cell phones in public places bug the heck out of me.  Do you think we could levy a fine for that?  How about those people who take more than 10 things through the speedy line at the store?  People who wear too much perfume make me nauseous, and there's always at least one of those on every plane.  They're sucking up my clean air so they should pay more, too. 

What I really don't get is if there are no available seats on a plane for the large person to use for free, what are they going to make them pay for?  If the empty seat doesn't exist in the first place, how can they pay for one?  That makes entirely no sense at all...

I'd rather share some of my space with a friendly heavy person than sit next to a skinny person who thinks they're entitled to have everything just right for their own personal convenience.

My hero...I second that emotion. The rants of some ignorant people totally ignore the issue of airlines making seats too small in the first place. And where's the human compassion we all talk about. I rather have a nice Big person haanging each of my knees than the skinniest self-centered cretin 2 seats away.

Looks like my boyfriend and I may have to take alternate transportation. My boyfriend is 6'1" and 370 but not by choice or overeating. His is a medical problem which caused his weight to escalate and he DOES eat healthy and tries to exercise. I'm sorry that people and the airlines have chosen to discriminate a person just because of their size. So it's going to cost us nearly $800 to fly to Bangor, Maine this summer for a family gathering..how sad. Taking the bus the seats are smaller than the airline seats, same thing with trains. My boyfriend is the cleanest, nicest guy and he's going to get charged to fly and his weight is NOT his fault. :-(

It's unfortunate that your boyfriend has a medical condition, but I really don't see how airlines are discriminating. They aren't saying that heavy people are worthless, inferior, ugly, etc. They are saying that if you take up more than one seat, pay for it. Your boyfriend's medical condition is not everyone else's problem, sorry to say. Just because you don't mind being crushed by your loved one's weight, doesn't mean that the rest of us do.

I have several medical problems....yet, in all fairness, they are MY problem. Okay, I can complain a little to family or good friends...and they may give me a little consideration at times.... However, MY medical problems are still MY problem.

Simply put, if you take up too much space to fit into one seat, then you should pay (maybe a discount) for a second seat. YES, the seats are too small for most average adults, especially guys. However, your size does not give you the right to crush other passengers.

I had to take medicines in the past...that put on weight. The meds make you hungry and it it hard not to eat more.*** Yet I STILL believe that if you need two seats... you should pay for two seats... (I hope that I will never need two seats...but I would pay for them.)

When I flew with my baby son years ago, I paid for a seat for him...even though he could have sat on my lap. It wasn't fair that others suffer if I could help it...and yes, he was reasonably good....

I bet you hug trees too, don't you? Why should someone blame someone else for their problem? It isn't the airline's fault someone is of 'extra-proportion,' so don't pass off the blame onto the airline.

Good point, but the bigger issue (no pun intended) is simply that if you cannot fit into your seat and you are impacting the person next to you: then you don't fly.

To your point: only until the vast majority of people reduce their flying and let the airlines know it's about comfort will they budge on inch. Anybody in the industry will tell you the single most important variable for the consumer when it comes to flying is cost. Everything else is a distant second.

The seats haven't shrunk, people have gotten fatter. And not all people, just some people. The rows have gotten closer together, but generally the problem with overweight people is they spill out the sides of the seats onto their neighbors, not forward into the seat in front of them. Of course the airlines are going to try to fit more people onto the plane by adding more rows and decreasing legroom- it's a pretty east-to-understand business model.

Being so fat that you can't fit into an airplane seat isn't okay- it's not okay for your health, your lifestyle, or for the people who have to sit next to you on the plane. I paid for my whole seat, and I want the whole seat- I don't want to share it.

Good point... To highlight one of your points, airlines have not reduced the width of the planes. They still seat the same amount wide. I feel really bad for the tall travelers as they cannot help their height, but if you make a conscious effort to be overweight, then you should have to pay the extra cost.

Even the Council on Weight and Size Discrimination admits that seats have not gotten narrower, people have gotten wider. (As usual, I can't post a web address here, but you can search on them and airline seats.) The widths were set way back in the '50s and haven't gotten bigger since. (The rows HAVE gotten closer together, though, greatly reducing leg room.) Just watch some old TV shows like Bonanza or the original Star Trek and you'll see how much trimmer everyone was then. Since it costs more to create a larger plane, it would seem that the only "reasonable" solution would be to add some larger seats AND charge more for them. But then what if you're small and only the jumbo seats are still available to purchase? A very sticky issue.

Stacie H: Must be nice to be in prefect health and the prefect size. Shame on you for just assuming that everyone large person who can't fit into the tiny airline seats chooses to be that way! There are thyroid illinesses and heart conditions out there that doesn't make it a "conscious effort" for someone to be overweight. They can eat healthy but are still considered overweight and can't fit in the regular seats. And what about the individuals who are fit but are over 6'5" and just can't fit into the tiny seats these planes have created. This move by the airlines is just about greed!

Makes absolutely no difference, why you're fat, health problem or choice.
If you exceed the seat, you're in my territory and I paid for my seat,too. If you can't fit into the seat, and don't want to buy two tickets, stay home

Why is everyone making excuses for these 'big' people?! 99% of these people are obese because they choose to be. Just as smokers choose to smoke and had to accept the terms of a smokeless flight (otherwise take an alternate means of transport), so should Two-Seat Jones !!

Those who are fat due to health problems are the extreme minority.  Most who are fat are fully responsible for their size.

My entire family is considered tall...the men are mostly over 6'5 and the women are generally near 6'. We make it a point to purchase bulk head or exit row seats to accomodate for our leg room, and get an A boarding pass on SWA. I think if anything the airlines need to remove the recline option on seats.....do people really need to sleep on a 2-3 hour flight? Come on have courtesy for us tall folks! If you have someone kick your seat...check that you aren't reclining in their LAP! TRUST ME---I WILL KICK your seat for hours if you are in my lap! And yes, I get fulfillment out of it! SLEEP IN A BED!!! (Overseas flights are a differenst story!)

Tall Tami: You can be restrained, arrested, and fined for combative behavior on a flight.

I strongly suggest that you control your passive aggressive tendencies while aboard commercial transportation.

Are you willing to pay significantly higher airfare costs to accomodate the reduction is seating that will result in providing more space per seat?

Air Marshal: Excuse me? Since when is it a crime to actively resist an invasion of space through non-violent means? Pushing on a seat back is not against any flight rules on any carriers or any federal guidelines.

Do you enjoy some snoring person in your lap? Get real.

Not that I for a moment think that you are a Real Air marshal, since it is against your code of conduct to post on open forums, myspace, twitter, blogs or other sources of public information.

So, either your full of crap, or you are already violating rules.

Must be nice to be a liar or a hypocrite in your little world.

As far as the topic at hand, I am 5'11", 290lbs. I fit just fine into one seat and had a great flight to Idaho a few months back on Alaska Airlines. So really, if someone is bigger than me and needs more room, buy the extra ticket. If you are smaller than me and complaining about the lack of room, get some prospective.

Here is a few things to think about. One of the biggest factors in aircraft performance is weight. That's the reason you never here pilots refer to fuel in terms of gallons. Its referred to in terms of weight. Lbs. of fuel. Every aircraft has a weight and balance performed before every flight. Baggage is actually weighed people are assigned a weight. So yes your small child is assigned a weight of 200lbs They do this so they don't have to ask how much you way or put you on a scale.

A while back the airlines were trying to cut back on cost so they attacked the issue of weight. This can get a little complex so I'll try to keep it simple. The more weight they could get off the plane the less fuel they burn. Even how the aircraft climbs to altitude is calculated to burn the least amount of fuel. So they cut the weight. They didn't fill the tanks in the bathrooms, think how much a gallon of water weighs. They got rid of the galley where the food was prepared. Some did you a favor by removing one or two rows of seats. They told us they were making more legroom but in reality they were removing weight. The removal of seats actually made the flights more profitable. Also they very rarely fly with full fuel tanks. Fuel is calculated for flight time and 10-20% more for delays and headwinds.

I agree with the decision to charge for people who don't fit into one seat. REGARDLESS of what the reason is. I was on a flight where the person next to me was obese to the point they were well into my seat on a full flight. When I respectfully complained to the flight attendant I got a too bad answer. I then asked to speak to the senior flight attendant. As a result I was moved to business class. I had the same thing happen on a light were I was placed in smoking. They had to move me to a open seat in first class.

Exit rows are another matter altogether. People in exit rows must be able to open the exit door and assist the crew and other passengers. Think what might have happened in the Hudson river landing if the person in the exit rows were a hinderence to people exiting the plane.

Plus, a true Air Marshall sits in first class these days, taking up a seat that a large individual might be able to upgrade to, especially if having status in a frequent flyer program. But, there is justice, in a public interview, one of the heads of a major airline pointed out that he was most digruntled about having to give up first class seats on the aisle that had a clear view to the cockpit door to Air Marshalls, that is when you all actually fly. And that's assuming I'm willing to believe you are who you say you are.

But with that statement, I guess you get to rest assured that there is a target on every person sitting in the aisle, with a clear view of the cockpit door now in first class.

And really, just how hard is it for someone to spot an Air Marshall? Those polyester slacks, fresh out of the Military, high and tight haircuts are just not that hard to see.

In previous portions of my career I had th eopportunity to track and study terrorist behavior, the one reason they are so successful is that they never do the same thing twice. Your presence on the plane, TSA, and the whole Homeland Security mission is a farce. It is pointed squarely at the public perception to need to feel safe. It isn't combatting anything. The real folks that matter in this "war", are small in number, inconspicuous, and are looking somewhere other than commercial flights for the next attack.

Keep believing you're making a difference Ace. I can guarantee it, that's why I paid $50,000 in total taxes this year. And for what? But that's a different thread...

I too am plus sized. So far I am able to get the armrest down comfortably, and I have room left in the seatbelt.

However I have to take issue with the comment that we are "fully responsible for our size." I am a raw foodist and exercise more than most thin people I know. In order to bring my figure down to a size 8, I had to spend an entire morning or afternoon exercising every other day, working as hard as I could work, and this was in college twenty years ago when I still had a young person's metabolism and a college student's schedule. Yeah, sure, I'd like to be able to take that kind of time out of my day just to take care of myself, but, um, who would pay the mortgage?

Ever read the fine print about all those Hollywood stars and the people on The Biggest Loser who drop 60-100 pounds? Those people are exercising, hard, for THREE HOURS A DAY.

Can you afford that kind of time? Heh, maybe when I'm a multigazillionaire Hollywood star I will be able to, too.

The point is most people do still fit in the seats. They aren't as comfortable as they used to be, but we still fit. For those who don't fit in one seat, they should then buy two. It doesn't seem rocket science to me. I'm sorry if it's a medical condition or genetics or anything else. The fact remains that I still paid for a whole seat and I should get one. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, if your luggage is overweight or oversized you have to pay an additional charge. I think the same applies to the interior of the plane. If you can't fit in one seat, then buy two.

I paid for my seat, I intend to get my WHOLE seat, and not have someone else impose on my space. It's bad enough that I have back problems and sitting so long on a flight leaves me barely able to stand up and walk after four hours or more on a flight. Having someone practically in my lap is not going to happen. I will make my situation clear to the flight attendent if someone so large they cannot sit in just one seat is seated with me. And they will either move that person, or me to a different accomodation. I need what little room I get to move to keep from having even worse problems during the flight. Thank you very much.

Oh and I hear you about the meds that make keeping the weight off difficult. I'm 20lbs overweight right now because of my meds and working hard to get it back under control, I've lost six pounds in the last month. Slow going but I am doing it. Bad back and all.

and I am sure you'd be the first in line to complain when all airlines collapsed and dissappeared that they were denying you your god-given right to travel, eh, Just (not) Thinking ?!

More power to the air marshal, seats are made to recline. I have never had anyone in front of me who has a reclined seat effect my comfort.

Yahoo to making people of size pay for the extra seat. I have been stuck beside a women who took up half of my seat on an Air Canada flight, the arm rest could not be lowered. That was one of the worst flights I have ever been on.

The seats barely accommodate me. I'm 5'3" and weigh 125 lbs

Hummm . . . strange! I'm 5'9" and weigh 195lbs. I have no problem fitting in my seat.

yeah, i'm 6'1" 155lbs and have no problem.

what airlines are you flying on? I am 5' 10" 170lbs. My shoulders are wider than the seat. If you put three guys my size in three adjoining seats, the window guy would have his shoullder against the window, all three of us would be pressed shoulder to shoulder, and the aisle person would be hanging three inches into the aisle.

That said, last time I flew I sat next to a guy who was maybe 6 feet tall, but carried probably 300 pounds - he sagged a solid 6 inches into my seat on a full flight. I ended up trying to sit sideways in my seat, but still stuck into the aisle a good 4 inches - there was just nothing I could do about it. And yes, I got clobbered by every passenger or food/drink cart going up or down the aisle to the point where I had bruises on my shoulder the next day. I don't like the idea of making "heavy" people pay extra - not all of them can really help it - but allowing them to make me pay for their size is definitely NOT the answer.

under- whelmed must be all hips

i don't buy being 5'3" 125 lbs and not being able to fit in the seat--i'm only a little smaller than that and i can practically curl up in one of those seats. well, not when i'm stuck between two huge people who take up half my seat (miserable way to fly from the west coast to europe). what bugs me is that i have to pay the same for my ticket with my 115 lb body and maybe 40 lbs of luggage as someone who weighs 200 lbs and takes 60 lbs of luggage. do any of you heavier people think about the rights of those who are subsidizing you while you're busy campaigning for your own? i'd love to pay airfare based on weight (body+all luggage), seems fair to me.

If you are 5'3" 125lbs. and find the seats too small I want to know what type of aircraft you are flying on. I am 5'7" 140lbs. and have flown on virtually every airline in America and even the seats on small commuter planes are plenty big enough for someone my size.

The best solution to this issue would be for airlines to develop some sort of modular seats that can be expanded or narrowed as needed. Then charge each passenger according to the volume of space they require.

I would also like to see an airline implement some "adults only" flights. Not all of their flights of course. For example: If an airline has 10 flights a day from L.A. to N.Y. at least one of them should be for adults only. I'd rather deal with two large, clean adults spilling into my seat from both sides than one whiny, crying, screaming, out-of-control, snot nosed kid.

HAHAHAHA

You know...you have a valid point, dmac225.

I'm a parent, and I agree with that concept. Only if the cocktails are free, and the Mile High Club is in effect.

At the same time, there are youngsters who can handle the trip, and several adult passengers who manage to find a way to be whiny, screaming, out-of-control and snot nosed.

Maybe that policy could be modified to a "No Childish Behavior Flight". I got five on THAT.

I have 3 young children, and since we are military, we have flown all over the world and back, including mac flights where there are only uncomfortable netting for seats and no heat. My children are never a problem on flights and don't get dirty looks. They have been TAUGHT to sit properly and they know it is inappropriate to jump around, scream, and act like animals.

Now, for the subject at hand...I think this rule should apply to ANYBODY who takes up more than one seat, such as overweight people, people who are too spoiled to use the space allotted, and children who have not been taught to act like humans. My aunt must weigh 300 pounds, and the last flight I was on with her she had to use a seatbelt extender, but she kept plus-sized rear end in that seat because she knew of the potential to inconvenience somebody else, and she did not want that to happen. She knows she is fat, but doesn't think that everybody should accommodate her just because of it.

I fit into the seats, but my knees touch the seat in front of me and there is little room to spare on either side between the arm rests. I can't imagine how uncomfortable it is for people of normal sizes, let alone people of larger sizes.

To all of you who want to charge for a seat by the pound. You need to get a clue. You are thinking that since you weight 100 pounds your ticket should be half the price of the person that weights 200 based on the cost of fuels. You forget fuel is the smallest part of the cost of the ticket. The best number I could find is that when it comes to passenger and cargo weight the fuel cost is about $0.09 per pound per hour. So on a 2 hour flight a 100 poound person costs the airlines $18 in fuel while the 200 lb person cost $36. Your ticket was probably $150 to $300. I can go along with a charge by the pound. You pay the ticket price (most of which covers overhead, salaries the plane etc...) pluss 10 cents per pound per hour for fuel. You will find it will save the 100 person 5 or 10% over the price of the 200 pound person not 50%.

This also does not solve the problem of the 300 lb person needing 2 seats. this raises the price for a $200 ticket to $400 where his/her extra 100 pounds only cost $10 in fuel. So drop the whole rediculous fuel argument when it comes to accomadaing large passengers. This is not the point. I only say rediculous as far as the two seat argument goes I am all in favor of a price per pound fee added to the ticket but that is $10 not $200.

WHat you are really talking about with overweight passengers is space. The average seat is 17 inches wide by 31 deep (leg room plus seat depth). For $200 ticket this is about 38 cents per square inch. So if you tiny people want a discount for fuel it will be $10. If you want to to go by space I suggest a few rows fo 15 by 24 inch seats that you can buy at $0.38 per square inch. That would be $137. The average sized person would pay $200 for the normal size seats. For the tall overweight of tall passengers thay can offer a 22 by 34 inch seat at $284. This way we can all be equally cramped into a seat designed to be unconfortable for passenger in each size bracket. This would be more fair than selling the large person two seat or force them to first class which cost 5 times as much a coach.

Wrong, . I don't think that I should pay less than the cost of a full SINGLE seat since I fit in it and have a bit of wiggle room. And most don't think so either. But if you can't fit in one single seat, then you should have to pay for taking up the extra room, period. I've seen people who would take up more than the space of one seat even if they were widened to 20 inches. And then there is, sadly, the fact that most people who are overweight have body odor issues. A whole problem in itself.

Just remember about 80% of us think that heavies should be paying for two seats because we're tired of being abused by having our space imposed upon.

bfoster, It is not all about you.

I was not talking to you and if you understood my point you would know that. There are several people in this and other threads that want to charge large people by the pound because of the extra fuel that cause the airlines to use. BUt if you charge for the exta fuel you would only increase the price by 10% not 100% which is what a second ticket does. And it does not solve the problem. If people are fooled into believing that the primary cost of the ticket is fuel the airlines will use this to rip you off. I was pointing out about $10 of $200 in a ticket was actually fuel. And there were people above that want to charge by the pound. I was pointing out we pay for space more than we pay for weight when we buy a ticket.

I can agree that if the person takes two seats they should pay for it. But this is a seperate issue from weight. You will also find that sometimes a 250 pound woman has her weight distributed in a way that is does not encroach on your space. Where a 250 pound male semi athletic person will crowd you more, his weigth is all in his shoulders and will take up more of your space. Not in the seat but you will be leaning away to avoid the shoulders. But the large fit person will not be forced to buy an extra ticket while the fat person will. I have sat next to basketball players and football players and they take more room then the chubby people I have sat next to. And the fat person would lean away or fold their arms in from to avoid bothering others. The young athlete is cocky and figures he deserves the space and is ot at all embarased to get in your space.

HAHAHAHA

This thread is crackin me up!

I was one of those passengers...after doing a sweaty gig in Glasgow, then partying all night on the tourbus to Heathrow, then flying to Copenhagen. STINKYSTINKYSTINKY. My bandmates called me out HARD.

I would have gladly paid a fine, and felt like I deserved it. It would have been less emotionally damaging than the hazing my friends put me through.

How obnoxious of you! You knew you smelled dreadful and somehow it amused you?!? Next time, find a shower. And I'm delighted that at least your friends didn't let you get away with it.

Could you not have slipped into the public restroom and at least tried to clean up a bit? perhaps growing up a bit would be a good option for you too. Not adult enough to refrain from drunken parties--not adult enough to fly without your mommy.

Geoff G GOOD ON YOU.. you took revenge on the rest for once after suffering all the fatties and farties for so long. Well done.

Rejoysing...OH YEAH..That made it worse!

I went to the duty free shop and bought cologne and took a ho bath in the men's room.....OOOPS. Add the smell of over-cologne with the previously mentioned bouquet....

Then of course, everything escalated with my friends. It just became comedy after that. Even tried to speak to a lady on the connecting flight.

Mommy would be horrified, I'm sure...

Her baby the traveling musician.

Gee, I wish I was as special as you and could afford to go first class........funny how you really didn't discuss the issue, you just broke your own arm patting yourself on your back.

Indeed...I also wish I could afford to fly 1st class. I am 5'10"135 lbs and all legs, which usually go numb during my coast to coast flights. I can't count the times I have been smothered between "beefy" individuals, jammed against the window and when fortunate enough to snag the aisle seat, end up in it. Why someone is overweight is not my business nor should it be my problem...Lest we mention the potential safety hazard. Pay for the space you require and stay out of mine!

Must be nice to have the cash to do that KatGirl.

I'd like to see that....

One seat per customer, unless you want to buy another seat. If you are thin, and fit in one seat, you are comfortable until someone less fortunate sits next to you and crowds you. We all pay for a ticket and should all be comfortable. If you are heavier, you should pay for 2 seats and be comfortable too. I do, however, wish the airlines would have a few extra large seats for those who are heavier. I don't believe they should have to pay more for that bigger seat, but I don't feel anyone should have to be squashed by a heavy person sitting next to them.

Only if it involves 2 hot chicks.

That IS an interesting idea, though. However, I'm sure the Association for the Equitable Treatment of Butts Wanting Extreme Comfort and Cushy Seats (AETBWECCS, for short) would disagree...

<big cheesy grin>

I agree. I am 6'2 and 225, the same as our former Buccaneer quarterback, but he has better weight distribution.

Yes, the seats are too narrow, and the legroom is insufficient. The legroom is easily fixed...if you look at the floor, you will see the seat tracks where the distance is adjusted. The airlines can add or remove seats depending on how many they want on a particular route. But, that is not the issue.

Plain and simple, you take up more than your 17 inches of space, you pay extra, in 17 inch increments. The minimum is 17 inches even if you have a small child.

However, the issue goes beyond girth. To fly an aircraft it takes fuel. Fuel need is based on weight, both of the aircraft and its cargo. The airlines already have an average weight of a passenger and luggage. You go over that, you should still pay more for the extra fuel. They have half of it, they are charging for extra luggage. The extra seat is to pay for the extra fuel so I dont have to subsidize your ticket because I am paying more for mine.

Maybe they should charge extra for those with broad shoulders too since they are invading another person's space.

Dearest AvalancheChief. You say "When You get Plus sized." and You decry the "Oozers", but then you tell us that you "Ooze" into other people's space with your shoulders." You say that when you get "Plus sized" you will buy a bigger seat, but you are already "Plus Sized" and your shoulders "Oozing" into someone's space is just as uncomfortable as someone's girth. I am 6'6" and 240 lbs. And I don't fit into a regular Airline Seat. I am not what would be considered fat, granted I'm not waif thin either. So why is it that because I am big because of my genes I need to pay an extra fare? If a person is disabled due to their own stupidity. The Government forces everyone to make expensive modifications to their building so this person who is disabled though their own stupidity can have access to the building. But a Person who is extra Tall can just bend down and deal with it... seems the ADA needs to be revised.

I am 6' 2" and when I was young and 240 pound (and athletic, 36 inch waist) I fit in the seat belt just fine but my shoulders and chest were much larger than my waist. I had a hard time fitting in my seat. I found I always had to lean to the side to avoid imposing on other passengers. Now I am old and out of shape and over 300 lbs and frankly I fit in the chair better now than when I was young and athletic. I lift the arm buckel in and push the arm back down. I lean against the window to rest and I find I impose on the neighbor less than I did than when I was young with big shoulders and chest.

I was approached by southwest airlines on one flight and they recomend I look into their large person program. I would buy 2 seats and could perboard. But if the flight were underbooked I would receiver a refund since the skinny people did not have to pay for the extra room next to them they would not charge me for the extra room. This sounds fair enough to me. But on the otherhand if the filght were full I think I should have the option go to the stand by passengers and sell the seat next to me under the condition that they don't complain. I bet I would get a long line of takers. Stand by passengers are always desperate to get on the plane. I will bet I could even find a stand by passenger desperate enough to get home that I could make a profit on the seat. Or if I buy two seats in advance I should have the option to find a skinny guy that is willing to sit next to me in advance and sell him the ticket. I could run an add in the paper of Craig list. "Cheap seat to skinny guy call ...."

Having said this I still want to point out to you broad shouldered young guys, having been there and done that myself, that it is entirly likely that you are imposing on your fellow passengers more now than you will when you get old and flabby.

Interesting that you brought up the "broad shoulders" issue, but feel only people taking up the seat bottom should be penalized. I have sat between two guys with broad shoulders multiple times. Miserable experience. They take the armrests and their shoulders are on my seat back. I end up either slouched down or sitting at an angle, my arms squished in front of me. Since the two guys were my husband and a friend, I really didn't have much alternative - but if they'd been strangers...

Dearest Melissa. And exactly what would you recommend as alternate transportation to Europe or Asia? A ship? Are you now going to lobby that "Plus Sized" people get an extra Month of vacation so that they can take alternative transportation to their destination? There are indeed a lot of ugly comments here about overweight people. And then there are people like you who want to sound reasonable, but you are still being nasty. Find alternative transportation indeed. What if you were ugly and I didn't want to look at your face for an entire flight? Would that entitle me to force you to pay an extra fare in the Ugly section?

Dear Richard, I think what most of us are saying is it seems only fair that people get the seat we pay for. If you take up part of my seat, that's not "fair". You should buy what you need to accommodate your size. The fact that you need more seat than what is included in one seat, means you should buy two. I'm not being nasty about your weight. I'm simply pointing out a fact. Pay for what you need - don't expect smaller people to subsidize you.

I get and use the "alternative transportation" argument and I use it. I too hear all of these ugly comments and, as a large person, it makes me afraid to fly anywhere. I have flown a little in the past and I cringe to think of how much loathing might have seethed in the minds of those around me. I have always been a considerate passenger and stayed within my boundaries, but I have seen the dirty looks directed at me in places such as busses and movie theatres when someone notices me in the area. I just can't take that level of contempt on a plane too. The "friendly skies," they ain't.

I also worry that if I tried to fly nowadays, some airline employee would suddenly demand that I could not board unless I suddenly forked over several hundred dollars for another ticket. Who needs the stress of that worry? If I had stray hundred dollar bills to toss around on a moment's notice, I would be surrounded by a gaggle of eager admirers.

So, I just don't fly. In the meantime, I drive or stay home. When the airlines boo-hoo about falling revenues and employees cry about job losses and manufacturers cut back production and so-on, I just shake my head. This industry didn't try hard enough to make me a customer, so why should I care about its problems?

If they are too big for their seat AND the person(s) next to them complain AND there are no other seating options available, then I'm assuming that the airline can kick them off the plane. They would then have to purchase two seats on another flight. Only my assumption...

You're right. They charge them a second seat, but still leave them hanging over in the one seat they are in. Now that should be discrimination....a monetary punishment for being fat. I could understand paying for 2 seats if you were getting 2 seats

Yes VirginiaGirl I believe you are correct. And wouldn't that just be a pleasant experience for the person being kicked off of the plane and forced to take another flight because they are big? I am 6'6" and 240 lbs. Not "Fat" by any but the most stringent of standards, but I don't even come close to fitting in a regular seat all the way up. My Shoulders are too wide. So now comes some fufu idiot who feels empowered and they complain that I am too big for my seat. Now I get to be embarrassed, delayed and have to pay an extra fare to boot. Yeah such a deal. Thanks Airlines we all love you too. Oh and while you are at it go ahead and ask for some bailout money too so some of my tax dollars can be burned up susidizing your sorry butts, instead of being used to educate our future generations about what a bunch of greedy wack jobs we have become.

In YOUR opinion you fit in one seat...I would wager money that some of the posters here would feel that you are encroaching on their space.

What makes all the "yes" votes think that United won't over time continue to narrow the size of their seats to increase the number of "oversized" passengers who must now pay for two seats? Only the most thin among us will ever be left to only buy one seat. Why not push all airlines to more properly size their seats in the first place to eliminate half the problem?

bjh- Someone who expects to be able to use all of the space they have paid for is not being "greedy". An airline making an obese person purchase an extra seat because the safety and comfort of all the passengers requires it is not being "greedy".

Most people who accuse others of being "greedy" are actually expressing their own envy.

mkg- You should do some research before spouting off. The industry standard for a coach seat has been 17" since the 1950's. The seats have not gotten narrower, people have gotten fatter.

Dearest dmac 225. You speak of "Obese People" like you have a bit of envy. As stated many times in these comments. One does not have to be "Obese" to not fit in an airline seat. The standard may have been the same since the 50's, but that doesn't make it right.

Hey Sparks, let me see if I have this right....I should care what a donkey's butt like you thinks about me? Come on..never! I'm plus size, I have walked down the aisle of a plane and I can pick the idiots like you in a minute..you all look scared and stupid. I was on a flight to Detroit and as I walked to my seat, I said to the guy sitting next to my seat.."looks like you're the lucky winner" and laughed ......there was a seat between us, I ordered a drink, watched a movie and had a nice flight. Never bothered with him! I do upgrade most of the time (because I can), why would someone like me who is happy and enjoys life and travel let myself be brought down by most of you very angry and bitter people anyway?

I'm plus-size, that's the label I wear, what would your label read? RUDE?, MEAN? NASTY, ALCOHOLIC, ABUSER? DRUG ADDICT?, SELF RIGHTEOUS?, TRASH?, DIRTY?, UN-EDUCATED? ILLITERATE? ADULTERER?, THIEF?.....

Hey ummm . . . Sheplover. I hate to say this but your response sounded a lot angrier and more hateful than Sparkys did.

Just sayin'.

UNDER...where's the anger and hate? just the truth, you can see my biggest flaw; what is your biggest flaw? Can people see it?......I think most people don't expect the plus sizer to speak up....

here's the deal sheplover....if the guy next to me is rude, I put on my earphones. If the guy next to me smells, I put some perfume under my nose, if the guy next to me is so overweight that I can't move - I have no recourse other than to sit there for several very uncomfortable hours. I pay for a ticket just like you - and you're comfortable sharing both my seat and yours - and you think I AM THE ONE WHO IS RUDE? I'm sorry, it's inconsiderate and rude to expect those around you to compensate for something that is your responsibility. It's not about hate or disrespect - its about taking responsibility for one's self - and one's impact on those around them.

I also don't buy the "what about those who have thyroid or other weight-related problems?" I've had a thryoid problem all my life and have struggles with my weight - and yes, it is MUCH harder for me to maintain a healthy weight, but, hey, it is possible. I just have to work harder at it than some others. What I won't do is put the responsibility for my own well being on someone else. Why don't you try that?

Plus-Sizer???????// Gods I hate P/C:(

10 yrs ago I bacame Crippled, injured, Disabled!

Not handicapped, differently-abled or handi-capable! :)

If your too fat for the door or seat your too fat!! end of disscussion! on a plane you pay for size and weight life with it!!

You can't even spell so you must be mentally handicapped as well.

I was in the medical industry for many years. A STANDARD wheelchair has an 18" wide seat, the narrow w/c is 16". Seems like there are many "standard" sizes and perhaps they should be (ahem) standardized. Leg length is more of an issue for me. My tray table is STOWED.

hazcats...sorry I didn't say fat....I just use plus size ..whatever!

Bogebecall...I never said rude and inconsiderate, re-read please. Those where examples of what anyone can be..sounds like they could be yours however. Most FAT(feel better hazcats) people do stop caring what people think, I know I don't care! I just don't let folks like you ruin my fun and /or travel...traveling by plane is not pleasant for most people...get over it..as I stated before, I do upgrade whenever possible to avoid the likes of you.

You see sheplover people with your mind-set are the problem. While you rant about how, "I just don't let folks like you ruin my fun and /or travel...traveling by plane is not pleasant for most people...get over it.." you have no problem with making other passenger's experiences even more unpleasant than it already is. In fact based on your "I have walked down the aisle of a plane and I can pick the idiots like you in a minute..you all look scared and stupid. I was on a flight to Detroit and as I walked to my seat, I said to the guy sitting next to my seat..'looks like you're the lucky winner' and laughed.." comment you apparently get some sort of sadistic pleasure by causing others discomfort.

Uh...you're posting to somebody who has said repeatedly that they already upgrade.

So they're not encroaching on anyone's space.

dmac....so you want us fat people to hang our heads in shame and bow down to you?

no sadistic pleasure....just don't care. Actually, I've never "oozed" on anyone. I'm just not what you would consider "normal" size and some people do look scared and stupid. Don't like it when the "fat" girl walks proud? Most fat people can pick out "fat phobes" in a heart beat...you are obviously one of them. I'll think of you when they pull the curtain to separate us and I order my drink....LOL!

SparkyGump...yes, we do tend to cater to whiners. That's why United has taken this step. After spending far too much time reading these posts, it is clear to me that the most whining is being done by those who are more concerned about themselves and their comfort than they are the feelings of others. For shame.

People, people. Getting on the plane is NOT the destination. It is one step TOWARD your destination. You're not on that plane for the "experience" or for comfort. You're on that plane because you're trying to get somewhere faster than your car will take you there. Grow up and deal with the little inconveniences. Make the better choice to be kind to your seat mate, whatever their size...you'll feel great for it, and they will too.

Shep seems to have some pent up hostility towards people that are not "plus sized". Why does every one of your comments towards someone else end with an insult?

Good for you that your fat and proud. To insinuate that your only flaw is your weight is ridiculous. Maybe you have little to no self control, or even no consideration for others. Those seem like flaws to me.

While it is commendable that you tend to buy extra seats when you can, why don't you always buy an extra seat. And your example of your recent flight is a poor one. You say there was a seat in between you and the gentleman in your row. Well of course everything worked out, you were simply "oozing" into the seat next to you...not on some poor shlumps lap.

Someone else had made a comment about your attittude and I agree. Obviously air travel is uncomfortable for us all. No reason to make the experience any worse than it needs to be because you have some attitude problem directly related to your weight.

j-5...don't like it when fat people don't hang their heads in shame? It may come across like an"attitude" or whatever you want to call it....I just simply stand up for myself and fat phobes don't seem to like it on this board...your post proves that. What would your lable read? Hmmmmmm?

When you're overweight, you see the real person in others immediately. So all those poor gentlemen and ladies on this board are not true gentlemen or ladies. You can think whatever you want about fat people, maybe if you wiped the disgusted look off your faces, we could and would have a good time on a flight.

re-read my above post more carefully.....I'm not rich, so I up-grade whenever possible.

You suppose, it could have anything to do, with being a business, whose stockholders expect them to make a profit.
The airlines ar running on the edge, now.

You know . . . speaking as someone who has traveled a good bit and has had someone literally not just touching me but overlapping me in my seat in the summer (they were sweaty) I can tell you that this is in fact about more than greed and money. I paid the same damn price for my ticket that you did!!! What right do you think that gives you to expand into my personal space (what little I have)??? This is about some reasonable level of comfort for everyone concerned. I'm sorry if it means that you have to pay more but the truth is that there is limited space on the plane. If you take up more than your share then you should have to pay more. It's that simple.

Paid the same price for the ticket? Then how come there are all these so-called "specials" and websites for discounts, plus airline-backed last-minute seating, etc.? Passengers almost NEVER pay the exact same fare to fly on the same airplane!

Dearest R White. and how exactly was it that "I" had any control over becoming 6'6"? Please tell me because I am tired of paying more for my clothes, and shopping at special stores. And I am tired of having to pay more to have the seat on my car modified so I can fit behind the wheel without my knees in my ears. Yeah I'd like the magic formula to make me an Average size person. Could you maybe clue me in on where to find it? Until then don't talk to me about the "Choices" I have made.

Truly Dearest Big Richard,

Um, R White isn't talking about you, unless you're also too fat to fit in a single economy airline seat. OBESITY is a result of poor choices, which have consequences. DRUG ADDICTION, DRUNK DRIVING, etc. YOu could have saved yourself the rant at R White becuase I am certain that, philosophically, he would agree with you that you got a genetically bum deal.

*sigh*

Been there done that too! Not their fault really, It's their diet and culture but jeeeez!!!

i'm not as annoyed by larger people either and the East Indian thing gets me too, but the thing that really, really, really annoyes me is kids....I am not your childs parent so control them.

Oh and how about the person who's music/sound is SO loud you can hear it beyond their headphones?

Or the one that talks incessantly...

How about someone who is just ugly. Gee I really hate sitting next to an ugly person. Can we get an ugly section too? And maybe one for all the haters too. You guys make me ill.

Sooo, you're big AND ugly, Richard ? I feel for you, but please sit somewhere else.

I've never had a person in a wheelchair invade my seating space but I have had 300lb+ perfectly healthy sweaty people laying all over me. This is fair.

As someone who fits in his seat and pays for his ticket like everyone else, I also have rights!!!! When someone spills into my seat onto me, those rights are being violated. I do have a fundamental right to my personal space.

. . . and another thing. This is NOT discriminatory! That would imply that they are being singled out as a group and charged this fee because they are fat. Although that may be tempting to those looking for a way around this, it is not accurate. It is a matter of practicality. Let me make this statement as clear as possible: IF you do not fit in the space alloted for you then you are invading someone elses space. People have been complaining to the airlines for years about this problem and please remember, MOST people fit into their seats so whose side is the airline going to fall on? Another thing to remember is that the airline is in the business of making money. Is it fair to them and their stock holders to give you free seating because you don't fit into a single space? Someone has to pay for that space. Finally, MOST people who don't fit into a single space are in that situation due to poor personal decisions. That is not the fault of the airline and not the fault of the person in the seat next to them - it lays squarely upon them.

To say this is discriminatory is rediculous.

What are we really paying for? The space? Or the transportation? Think about it. We are paying for a service that takes us from somewhere to somewhere else. When I look at my plane ticket I am made aware of my departing location and my arriving location. No where on that ticket does it say that "you are also entitled to 17 inches of space."

But I agree with the majority of you ... I hate being squished between two large people.

people in wheelchairs don't sit in their wheel chairs while on the plane - so that argument is bogus. Lot's of people take medications that can cause weight gain - it doesn't make losing weight impossible - just more difficult. Too many people just want it easy and are looking for anything to blame for not putting in some extra work to maintain a healthy weight. I know, I take several medications that have significant weight gain as a side effect and I have to workout 5 days a week just to keep myself at a health weight. I must watch what I eat every day and really focus on eating healthy foods. I choose to do this instead of blaming my weight problems on medication or medical conditions.

The word is RIDICULOUS.

Those that say this is discrimination are intellectually bankrupt. Ofc you should pay for 2 seats if you cannot fit into one. We are sick and tired of fat people blaming their unhealthy, unbecoming sizes and problems related to their fatness on others. Take responsiblity for yourself...LOSE WEIGHT and quit moaning!! I moved from USA to Sweden and guess what...hardly anyone in Sweden is obese or even fat. It is because they have pride in themselves, take care of themselves, exercise, and eat right. Americans could be the same if they quit making exuses and get off their fat duffs! If you need two seats because you are too fat, then you must pay, END OF STORY!