Yes! And Bush and Haster were highly intelligent along with all the republicans.....................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're right about Nancy "Deer In The Headlights" Pelosi. She is an incompetent moron and I'm being really nice in my description of her. This bill is about as bogus as they get. It's probably not going to do anything except increase taxes further and there is still no evidence of global warming or measurable carbon dioxide danger. This is all about Pelosi, Waxman, Gore and the other environmental idiots that are disillusioned as to the problem and certainly to the fix. Let's not paint all Democrats with a broad brush. Hopefully, there are still a few that have a moral compass. Certainly, the Democratic leadership is extremely self-serving and their moral compass is very much in question. I think we know who they all are. Obama had better hope this doesn't pass because everyone voting for this bill is going to be ousted at election time for sure.

speaking of intelligent, Who is Haster?

I wonder how much Al Gore stands to make off of this Bill with his carbon credits? Global Warming has already made him a billionaire.

Plus don't we as humans breathe in Oxygen and breathe out Carbon Dioxide? I don't see how Carbon Dioxide is killing our planet, personally if there is a climate problem it has everything to do with over-population if anything. I am not a scientist but that makes the most sense to me.

Here's a good idea... create a website, call it "Why I did nothing about Global Warming", put your real names down, and we'll see. A lot will happen in 10 years. By then, you'll either be able to claim the largest "Told you so!" in history, or you might be singing a different tune.

The real problem here is that many people have very little humility - everyone thinks they are right, even when they know very little about a subject, and can't even consider entertaining a different viewpoint. I'm not a scientist, but I have looked into this topic, and I find it very hard to accept that there is some kind of plot being hatched by most scientists, around the globe, all at the same time, and about the same subject. And that the only voices of opposition are tied to interests who profit from the status quo.

I've seen many talks on this subject, from many countries, and they all point to the fact that we have to stop using fossil fuels, even if there is plenty left to use, because our environment can only absorb back so much CO2 at a time. Globally we keep increasing our energy consumption, China and India are quickly assuming an American lifestyle, and the world's resources are strained. Building a sustainable energy grid and getting off coal and oil is the only way to reduce our parts per million (ppm) concentration of CO2 that has already built up in the atmosphere. And it's not the ocean level I care about, it's the half of animal species that could die by the end of the century. It's the 110+ degree heatwaves for weeks at a time predicted for the end of the century. I'm not sure how many crops can withstand that kind of heat.

We could wait another 10 years, but many many scientists think we have to do something now. I'm doing my part in my life to use less energy, but if it were clean energy to begin with, not as much would have to change. Google "Saul Griffith's Climate Change Recalculated" for the best explaination I've seen on the topic.

Look deeper and go back to 1988 when they told us the world would end if we don't do something right now. This has been an ongoing theme for decades. You must be a very young student who has listened too much to your commy teachers or professors. Environmental policies are nothing more than a communist rues to take over and destroy our economy. The big picture as they say is not seeing the forest for the trees.

Beaglescout,

Grow up. Science has proven that the earth goes through cyclical changes, science has not proven that man has anything to do with any of them. Science has proven that for the past decade we're in a cooling trend not a warming increase.

20 years ago these same people predicted we would be living in another ice age, read "A Creed for the Millenium". 3 decades ago these same nutburgers predicted over population and mass starvation in the US.

Science is not about a consensus, it's about facts that can be proven and identified.

Saul Griffith is a hack and has been disproven by numerous scientist. His findings are often as dubious as those by Hansen at NASA.

Science is about forming theories that can be tested and reproduced by peers. The science has been getting increasingly accurate, and in 10 years, will likely be even more accurate. Please consider my first idea about the website, and we'll see.

I'm an industrial designer for the world's largest consumables manufacturer (look it up), and know a thing or two about what is happening in China, our supply chain for places like Wal-Mart and Target and consumer habits. They are not getting smaller, they all use large amounts of oil and they have absolutely no intention of stopping. Again, show some humility, look at what has been happening because of globalization over those last 20 years.

She know what she is doing. Her husband just like AL Gore own's companies that will make millions of selling these Cap and Trade points.

I hope everyone asks themselves, did I use my vote last election to change the congress or did I vote for the incumbent, self-serving politician, be it a Republican or Democrat , who has become entrenched in office. How is it that congress had a 12% approval rating yet 96% were reelected? The "my congressman is ok, it's all the others that are the problem" syndrome was, as always, in play. These politicians need to loose there job! They are responsible for the state of this country. The American people have gotten the Government that they deserve. Next election, vote against all incumbents, or look in the mirror to see the real problem.

The German steel industry is looking to move to Saudi Arabia. Why - no carbon market. Let's see who is exempt. China, India, most African nations, the middle east. No one who has read completely about AGW and it's effect on economies. Examples, Germany lost 3.1 jobs for every green job created. Spain has lost 2.5 jobs for each green job created. Estimates for the US is expect us to lose 2.1 jobs for every green job created.

Didn't anyone here read the whole story behind CFL's. Yup the bulbs do cut energy (many by only by 0-25% energy saving instead of 75% as advertised), but still contain mercury. Trace the source of the MFR's. The most of the CF:'s are coming from china. Those plants are experiencing elevated cases of mercury poisoning! We should have waited for LED's to be fully marketed. NO poisons, and even less energy demand than CFL's

Global warming advocates claim that the missing and deformed legs on frogs are from global warming. Out of Britain last week, a group actually observed that the deformities are due to dragonfly nymphs that feed on the emerging extremities of tadpoles.

There are hundreds of ridiculous pro-global warming claims. What is bad is these are people with scientic degrees who are promoting an opinion without complete facts. And they are promoted by a news media and politicians that don't know any better or don't even care to know better.

Eagle, Then you know that the "science" of global warming can't be reproduced. Look at all the "predictions" that have been made based on the science and none of them have come true. Go to junkscience.com and you will find articles based on actual scientific observations rather than computer models. Any science based on computer models is not science. Junk in, Junk out. I've yet to read one scientific study where the data supports the conclusions. Remember the antartic warming study? Well, the western half was supposedly getting warmer while the eastern half is getting colder. The conclusion of the study was that the eastern half was getting coldet because of global warming. Use your logical abilities to ask questions and not just accept conlusions. You'll be amazed at how many holes exist in the global warming theories. Plus, and perhaps most telling, is look at the people who support global warming and what they are proposing that we do about it. They are all liberal politicians and they are using all means possible to try to destroy the capitalism that has made this nation the greatest nation the world has ever known.

Because of the environmentalist wacos, we have oil, coal, etc. that will easily make us energy independent, but we are prevented from using them for various reasons, making us dependent on foreign oil. Other nations are allowed to use nuclear power, but we are handcuffed and haven't built a new reactor in decades.

We do dumb things like let the snail darter or 2 inch long minnows prevent us from irrigating the richest soil in California, even though we have plenty of water there to do it.

Follow the money and you will see the farce of global warming. Also, follow your local weather forcaster. Half the time they can't get right what is going to be happening 12 hours down the road, let alone decades or centuries.

Probably the most telling sign of the fraud of global warming is to watch what the alarmists do. AlGore is flying all over the place using more fuel in a week than most of us use in a lifetime. Or, in your terms, he is doing more to pollute the environment and cause global warming in a week than most of us do in a lifetime. See the hypocrosy? Don't forget that we have maybe 7 years left before the Arctic ice is completely gone according to AlGore and his cronies. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

From today's Washington Examiner

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has vowed to bring the Obama-Waxman-Markey (OWM) anti-global warming cap-and-trade energy bill to the floor for a final vote Friday, which raises an interesting question: How much money will Pelosi make if the measure becomes law, as seems quite likely?

Pelosi, of course, is not the only member of Congress to own significant shares of energy companies. Senators and representatives from all over the country do, not just the "oilies" from energy states like Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana.

But as House Speaker, Pelosi's ownership of an unknown number of shares in the Clean Energy Fuels Corp. (CLNE) valued at between $15,000 and $50,000, may deserve particular attention.

Do people NOW understand the urgency in passing this JUNK SCIENCE Bill?

when was anything passed by congress not about making its members money?

Obama is no different, he gets to destroy america and make a goodly sum of money at the same time.

Captain Marvelous, witchrunner, Bushhaters...,

I've talked personally with the CEO of American Electric Power in Columbus, because I've worked with his son. Power companies are taking this issue very seriously, looking at the data and looking at ways to benefit from the changes that will be implemented. It's only a matter of time, and if people like that are taking it seriously, you should too.

When they are in a better position to profit, from things like the Smart Grid meters, the critics of climate change will no longer be credible. Every company I work with is trying to see where they fit in with the 'green' movement and profit from either energy efficiency or the public perception. Companies will make a lot of money from this - duh! Why do you think this issue has gained any traction at all? Companies like Wal-mart and GE, Bush and Obama have acknowledged the issue (from different levels), even the Pentagon has acknowledged that climate change will be a future security threat (that was a few years ago). As long as all of them are using less energy from fossil fuels, we'll all be in good shape. Let them make as much money as they can.

In the mean time, I suggest you listen to Saul Griffith's talk "Climate Change Recalculated", because it lays out the whole situation, and suggests really interesting business plans based off where we would like to be. Just calling him and Jim Hansen 'hacks' is a good way to be angry and left behind.

I'll check out junkscience.com The best argument that I've heard against global warming came from science fiction writer Michael Crichton. He basically argued that no one can predict what the weather will be like in 100 years. It's such a common sense argument, I have to agree. But that doesn't mean that we can't look at the trends of globalization and urbanization, look at the atmospheric measurements from reliable sources around the world and make a few educated guesses about what will happen if we continue business as usual.

Besides, if we make a prediction about things that will happen at the end of the century, and then wait for it to be proven right... that's not the kind of proof I'm willing to wait for. Even if we stop all CO2 emissions right now, it's estimated that the CO2 levels will even out in 250 years. You guys seem willing to wait. I am not.

This so called, "Man-Made Global Warming", is the biggest hoax EVER perpetrated on the civilized world. This Cap & Trade is nothing more than Tax & Kill (Read:Redistribution of Wealth), because it will drive up cost which will then, in turn, cause businesses to lay-off employees by the millions (a true business killer indeed) and ultimately the higher product cost will be passed on to the ultimate consumer (me & you) in the form of increased cost for fuel, electricity, food, light bulbs, you name it, and just able everything else. You want to see the American economy destroyed, then call your Congressman and Senator and tell them to pass this lug of a bill. Then watch Al Gore and his cronies smile all the way to the bank. What a big joke!

Wow the oil industry has really pumped a lot of dollars into keeping public opinion in favor of killing the planet today. WOW! So you guys are all in favor of just paying terrorists to come over here and kill our kids and to heat up the planet to extremes. Did anyone forget New Orleans? You freaks out there can keep burning up oil like crazy and sending money to terrorists if you want. Leave me out. I think its disgusting. I also find it really interesting that so many people here are FOR the oil industry that helped create this recession we are currently in by running oil and gas through the roof. So you like paying $50 a gallon for gas? DO IT!!! Not me. Its irresponsible on levels I can't even begin to explain in a few paragraphs. All of you should know better. The shocking thing is that you would think that at least self preservation would kick in. I live on the Gulf Coast I have the honor of seeing it get hotter and hotter and watching bigger and badder storms every year. Likewise if the sea level went up 30 feet most of my city would be under water. Thats ok though you guys just sacrifice the rest of us and our property for some political scenario or because your afraid of progress.

To all the scaredy-cats crying about change, here's the real deal:

Climate change is for real, and if you don't think it is, you're simply kidding yourselves.

Green industry is for real and if you don't think it is then look at our domestic and Euro-Asian energy producers - they are all going "green." BP leads the charge, but it is happening with every oil company out there right now because resources are finite and they are actively trying to leverage their power structure into the next money-making product(s).

Int'l markets are gearing up for Cap & Trade, countries are aligning with the Kyoto Protocol and IPCCC implementation. The US has lagged behind, and from the looks of this paltry poll, could continue to fall behind the global trend.

People, it's a little bit about pollution and climate change - and a lot about the almighty dollar. The companies that lobby and influence Republican lawmakers are the cheap & dirty providers that have been around for nearly a century. They either need to change their stripes or step away, but one way or another we need to improve our lot in life, our economic status in the int'l energy markets and viability as a relevant superpower.

Life is not about gipping on an ideal and vowing to never let go no matter the consequences. It's about improving and taking the next step. And this is one of those long overdue moments when it's time...

msdx1949, hey genius don't you realize that this cap & tax WILL drive the cost of fuel thru the stratosphere. And by the way, what ad campaign has the oil industry been running in favor of killing the planet today? I don't seem to recollect seeing one of these, if anything, companies like BP (they actually call themselves "Beyond Petroleum" now...I guess you haven't seen this commercial since you are probably still waiting for FDR to pipe in one of his fire-side chats over your vacuum tube radio, right!). As for your assessment of the weather changes, you are incorrect. The weather is unpredictable and fluctuates radically between periods of calm and extreme hot and cold. So I guess the dinosaurs caused their own extinction by emitting greenhouse gases, right...so, replace dinosaurs with humans and see how stupid that sounds...you lefties are so "arrogant" to think humans can have such a dramatic affect on climate change when the earth has been in existence and going thru many, many climatic changes over its 4.6 billion year history and to say that we CAN control and change the weather patterns is just pure nonsense...Earth will get along just fine whether humans are here or not. I am tired of hearing the ramblings of you No-Growth-Flat-Earthers. Leave the American economy and American industry alone. You idiots have no idea what you're talking about! Please, go move to the Alaskan frontier, then you won't have to worry about 30 foot storm surges.

Eagle, one problem with your "theory" of "You guys seem willing to wait. I am not.", you are assuming that the "theory" has merit and are willing to act accordingly. That's fine, I think you should. But, our position is that this is all a bogus fraud. Based on that, why would we be willing to do anything in that regard. One does not go about making a drastic change to the way a whole economic system works based on a slight, if that, possibility that the looney fringe may be right. Not only is the "evidence" of damage caused by CO2 flimsey, it is non existent. The earth is millions of years old. It has gone through a lot of dramatic changes. CO2 is a naturally part of the ecology of the planet. Without it, we'd all die. The measurement of CO2 has only been measured in the last 30 years or so. Even if it was within the last 100 years, it's still an extremely small period of the history of the earth. Plus, where the measurements have occured is a very small number.

Yes, Crichton is very persuasive. His "State of Fear" gives some very informative insights into the workings of the environmental movement. And, he backs up his work with real citations.

As far as various people and companies acknowldging the "issue", it is impossible to ignore it. There are several aspects to the "issue". First of all, if you are old enough, and apparently you are not, in the 1970s, these same people who are claiming global warming were touting global cooling. Now it has been established that there has been not global warming in the past decade. The "main-stream" media reports only one side of the issue. Admittedly, they have a leftist agenda. If that is the only place someone gets their news from, then they would be convinced that global warming is a fact and that it is caused by man. Why, because their reports on the issue usually include false statements such as " all scientists who study the issue agree..." Or "the consensus of the scientific community is...". I'll give them credit for trying to pursuade people that this is the case, although, in the process they have lost any and all claims to be journalists interested in the truth. They are now a part of the propaganda machine for the left and this administration.

I had a discussion recently with a friend about the global warming issue. We have a different point of friendship basis, so the issue had never come up. But, he was just like the attorney in State of Fear, he didn't realize that the global warming crisis being pushed was not universally accepted as fact.

As far as educated guesses, I think it is very presumptuous to believe that we humans have that much impact on the environment. Yes, we are capable of polluting areas, but it is not as if there is no oversight of the environnment now. Remember, they complained about the smog over Rome 2000 years ago too. Also, the oil fires from the first gulf war was supposed to be an environmental catastrophy. Another sure fire prediction that never happened.

Bottom line, I shouldn't be forced to "do something" just because others feel that something must be done. One only needs to look at the bailouts to see the falacy of proposition. If you want to buy and drive a prius or walk to work, that's fine. You have no right to tell me I can't drive my SUV. Hitler and Stalin could, but we live in the USA, where freedom reigns. At least it did until this current administration.

The funny thing about this legislation and the entire global warming/climate change movement is that they have failed to study history. This is the same for everyone that believes in the environmental movement's position on global warming/climate change. Why do I say this? In the mid-1800s, the WORLD came out of a 400-year period known as "The Little Ice Age." It was a period of abnormally low temperatures that included the freezing of the Thames River in England. Now logic would suggest that there would be a period of approximately 400 years where temperatures would be abnormally high after a brief period of average temperatures. So, we have between 50 to 100 more years of NATURALLY increasing temperatures. This means that any sort of human impact would not be felt until the vast majority of today's world population were all dead and buried.

I wish all you planet killers would at least give us enough time to start colonizing Mars before you kill off the rest of us with abject irresponsibility and short-sightedness. That would be great if you could do that. I mean, on the other hand, if a few bucks is enough of a price to sell out the entire planet and watch our children get asphyxiated by noxious gases by all means lets all take the couple of dollars instead. That sounds like the smart scenario right? I hear Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is very pleased with your decision to keep buying his oil today. Is there anything else the planet killers out there would like to add while we are at it?

I wish all you planet killers

Herein lies the fundamental problem. The planet will be just fine no matter what we do with CO2.

This whole "save the planet" tag is nothing more than a focus group approved slogan.

Well witchrunner, first of all scientifically all actions have an equal reaction. YES the planet moves from one extreme to another naturally in CO2 content. Thats true. YES periodically all life over abotu twenty pounds gets extinguished. YES speeding up that process also speeds up our demise. Likewise the planet DOES have a tipping point at which the natural cycle gets tipped too far in the wrong direction. SEE the planet Mars for reference on this as it once had oceans on its surface and a thicker atmosphere. The whole theory that because some particulate of matter already exists in the atmosphere that its safe in massive quantity is flawed and ridiculous. Methane exists in the atmosphere, ever tried to breathe it? I bet you haven't. Like I said the planet is immortal. We aren't. If you want to you are fully entitled to hasten your own demise. I would prefer though you didn't try to hasten mine or my kids thanks though.

Yes you are correct the planet will be fine when we are dead. My bad the planet would survive a nuclear annihilation so by all means we should immediately go out and do just that right space guy?

Likewise answer the question earlier whats your vested interest in keeping America enslaved to the oil industry? You like paying terrorists? Nevermind i know what it is American lives must be worht less than a few bucks for the oil industry and their cronies? Thats it isn't it? We'll just sacrifice some more soldiers for the next Iraq. Thats no biggie right? Maybe we'll just pay some Ayatollah so he can fund the next 9/11. SOunds awfully cheery right? What fun.

Eaglescout, if you're talking to AEP's CEO's son, you might want to ask him how this exact same proposal in the electric industry turned out 15 years ago.

They already did an extensive research throughout the electric industry, led by the government, First Energy, then Centerior Energy and AEP led the investigation in Ohio. They found out that it was a complete waste of money and scrapped the idea after all the data was collected. They found out that the pricetag was hundreds of millions of dollars (and that was in the mid-90's). The cost to consumers per year was in the middle of four figures/year, not $175/year. The EXACT same reasons were put forth then, more jobs, same carbon, yadda yadda yadda, but after the report came out, it proved the exact opposite.

If you're truly talking with the CEO, or his son (which I don't know how he's a source of truth), they should be well aware of this.

What i don't like is Congress rushing to pass this bill without really letting the American public know what's in it for them. Sure it may clean up our air, decrease our use of foreign oil, but does it also include a plan on how it is to be implemented? Does it include positives and negatives in this bill, or is all rosey with happiness like it came straight from some fairytale novel? It scares me to think that our elected heros are jumping the gun...sure they want to make history, but they need to also have a viable plan for implementation. I don't want to wake up tomorrow and all of a sudden pay 10 bucks a gallon to fill my car, or I open my utility bill and find it had quadrupled in price...it would destroy the economy!

What is the next energy source? Do we even know? Solar? Wind? How do they propose to energize our vehicles in the near future? Sure they are trying to create new technology, but where is it?

The way this is being handled is scaring me to death.

Funneling American dollars to fund terrorism in the Middle East is anti-American. PROMOTING funneling MORE American dollars to terrorists now thats just good sense right? WOW I'm surrounded by patriots. NUCLEAR IS BETTER THAN OIL BY FAR!!!!!

Yes you are correct the planet will be fine when we are dead. My bad the planet would survive a nuclear annihilation so by all means we should immediately go out and do just that right space guy?

I was merely pointing out that your appeal to save the planet is based upon a market researched emotional appeal that has no basis in reality. By the way, we are not talking about nuclear war here.

Are these millions of new jobs Pelosi cites in the same category as the phantom 150,000 shovel ready BO keeps yapping about. Nah how could I be so cynical huh?

One other thing: I recently graduated with a degree in Game Software Development from Westwood College Online, and most of my degree was about programming computer games/simulations. Most computer models are simulations of data sets entered by a person then a program is run that spits out new data based on the formulae in the program and the data entered by the person running the simulation. A program is only as good as its programmer(s) and can be designed on purpose or by accident to only show desired results rather than create a true unbiased simulation. When I was in High School, I had a Chemistry teacher shoving the words accuracy and precision, as well as the phrase "It isn't accurate if it isn't in the 95th Percentile," down our throats. Accuracy is the reliability of the results, and Precision is how sensitive the instruments are to error. This meant that if the resulting data from an experiment was not grouped extremely close together in a graph, then the results were no good. Most science today is accepted in the 90th or lower percentile, which means that the results are really no good.

Environmental experiments are almost completely based on the results of computer simulations which has a lot of error already placed into it, because I know of no real program that is absolutely error-free. Look at your operating system, if it crashes or "throws an error;" then it is a program filled with errors already. Now add a simulation on top of that and see how accurate you get the results. I bet you would be lucky to get results that were in the 80th percentile.

Rick in BH, I can understand and respect your opinion, although I will disagree on your point about "humans" causing global warming. I believe in a clean, and pollution free Earth just as much as the next person, however, if the earth is going thru another warming trend, it isn't because of human activity (very arrogant to assume we have such power and control over this planet) it will be due to its own "natural" trends, that's all (nothing to do with humans). My problem with all of this is the gov't intervening on, supposedly, the good of mankind. Yes, the gov't. I despise the gov't meddling in issues they have very little to no knowledge about (and in this case they have none...truly, this is nothing more than about gov't CONTROL of our everyday lives and I do not want the gov't that deep into my wallet and life). And yes, gov't intervention with the intent of doing good for the Earth WILL have negative consequences. There is no doubt in my mind of the outcome and it will not be good for the citizens of this country. Let industry make these economic decisions on their own and get gov't OUT of the way. Everything gov't meddles into always has a negative end result (and it has historically been gov't intervention that has caused most problems). Is that so hard to understand and comprehend? Truly, that is what most Americans are afraid of (and nothing to do with the "sky falling" scare tactics...give me a break!).

Rick, it seems that the point you are missing is that most people (as evidenced by the results of this poll, even on a liberal website) simply don't agree that there is sufficient and credible evidence that supports your premise that man-made carbon emissions have any tie to climate change.

Rather, people believe that climate change is a naturally occurring phenomenon and the contributions from the human race to climate change are infitestimally small and insignificant.

There is nothing in your argument that will cause people to change their minds.

Explain to me now why we did not build more nuclear power stations? If we had started years ago we would be able to power this country cleaner. The people did not want nuclear power. We have some operational. We tried to go "greener" years ago and it was rejected. It is not of urgent need now either. Not at the cost of our present system. Not at the cost of high taxes. Anther secret, Global warming is not even real.

Show me the web site and I will put my name on it. There have been fads come and go. This one is no different. People eat science fiction up like it is candy. Then ignore the truth. Actually I am kind of glad we had global warming in the history. Otherwise we would still be in the ice age.

We all know we need garbage dumps. But no one wants it in their back yard.

Dale in NYC,

or google "GE Google Plug Into the Smart Grid" if they take that link out...

witchrunner,

Yes, yes... we are all free to make poor decisions. Living in the suburbs and relying on cheap oil to get yourself anywhere is perhaps the most inefficient way to live your life. Since living downtown, close to where I work, I'm excercising more, eating more healthy, saving money, and having more time (not commuting) to spend with family and friends. The American dream is not defined by the size of your car, yard or what school you went to. It's about having the freedoms to really take a look at the big picture and improving your quality of life (without suggestions from commercials).

msdx1949, man, you certainly do read things that don't exist. I never said or implied that just because a substance exists that there is no limit to the amount of it that is acceptable. But, your logic fails to point out that there is no scientific evidence that shows what the acceptable range is. The only argument regarding CO2 is that there is supposed to be a relationship (though not scientifically established) that the more CO2, the warmer the planet will get. Everyone knows that the main cause of earth warming and cooling is related more to the sun than anything else.

Your point on Mars is well taken! If only man hadn't ignored the CO2 crisis there, then Mars would still be habitable.

As far as hastening your demise... you are entitled to believe what you want. That's the beauty of beliefs, they are individual to each person. Just because you believe that I am hastening your demise doesn't mean that I am. I believe that when a person believes that the world is out to get them, or in your case, a bunch of people are out to hasten your demise, then I think that is called paranoia. Trust me, I have no desire to hasten your demise, or your kids' or mine. And I'm not.

eaglescout, I'm lowercasing your name because I truly believe that you didn't earn it. Next, I'm going to get ride of eagle, and just call you scout.

You do know that we had the "smart grid" in play nearly 2 decades ago, right? Ask the AEP CEO, or the son (who seems to be the marketing rep for you). It was not the brain child of Pelosi. BTW, are you connected to it? Are you having the gov't control your thermostat? You know it's free right? Actually, they'll cut 10% off your electric bill and give you the termostat for FREE!!! What a deal. The only problem, when it's hot and humid, you get an 85-degree setting on your A/C. Sleep tight.

Just call your local electric company. Better yet, wait until you get your next bill from AEP, and you can read about it on the bottom of your bill. The "smart grid" already there, the simple fact...no one wants to use it because they like to control their A/C when it's 100 degrees outside.

Wow the oil industry has really pumped a lot of dollars into keeping public opinion in favor of killing the planet today. WOW! So you guys are all in favor of just paying terrorists to come over here and kill our kids and to heat up the planet to extremes. Did anyone forget New Orleans? You freaks out there can keep burning up oil like crazy and sending money to terrorists if you want. Leave me out. I think its disgusting. I also find it really interesting that so many people here are FOR the oil industry that helped create this recession we are currently in by running oil and gas through the roof. So you like paying $50 a gallon for gas? DO IT!!! Not me. Its irresponsible on levels I can't even begin to explain in a few paragraphs. All of you should know better. The shocking thing is that you would think that at least self preservation would kick in. I live on the Gulf Coast I have the honor of seeing it get hotter and hotter and watching bigger and badder storms every year. Likewise if the sea level went up 30 feet most of my city would be under water. Thats ok though you guys just sacrifice the rest of us and our property for some political scenario or because your afraid of progress.

Living not far from NOLA I think I can pretty accurately state that most of it that flooded was well below sealevel well before we all started using oil. Probably was the reason most of those areas were never developed by the original settlers, no? Pretty ironic too that much of NOLA's business income for decades was thanks to the presence of the oil industry and its supporting industries. Flooding along LA's coast has just as much to do with ACoE screwing around with the MRGO and various other inane projects that altered the flow of the Mississippi and this state's absolutely pathetic ability to care about the environment and wetlands. I wonder if you realize that if the oil industry would cease to exist that this state would be bankrupt, no ifs ands or buts about it. Take a little gander at the state deficit just because of reduced oil prices and revenue.

Witchrunner, Brave Sir Robin, and the rest of you doubters:

Assuming, as you do, that the the science data which seems to indicate that the planet is warming is not so convincing, which is a better strategy for long term success?

1) There MIGHT be a huge potentially life threatening problem which might NOT actually happen, so therefore we can safely assume that it won't happen at all, that way we can save some money today, and if the problem does happen in a hundred years... well, we'll be dead and buried by then so, so what, let the kids deal with it.

or 2) There MIGHT be a huge potentially life threatening problem that we can hopefully do something about if we act soon enough, so we'd better act now, even it does cost us quite a bit, because even these costs will be small compared to the long term costs of doing nothing.

For comparison, I think my brakes might be failing on my car. I know it will cost me some money to take it to the shop and get them checked out and even more money if they've got to be worked on, but I'm feeling kind of financially tight right now, so instead, I'll just keep driving around and hope they don't give out completely. Yeah, that's what I'll do, who cares about those pesky kids crossing the street to get to school anyway?

Let me get this straight. See levels go up and LA and NYC will be under water? Explain to me the problem again?

I know what you're thinking...but Dale you live in NYC, you'll be underwater. I've got that one covered. I live on the 19th floor, so I'm well above the 30-foot water level. Plus, I tied up a row boat with a long rope to my window. People laugh now, but he who laughs last, laughs best.

Typos are one thing, but since you misspelled "idiot" in two places, you just must not know how to spell it. Well, now, what does that make you?

MikeyMike, Huh? Exactly what point are you trying to make here other than rambling stupidity? First, I never said I did NOT believe the planet was warming (or even cooling for that matter). I said, I don't believe in "Man-Made" global warming, get the difference Mickey Mouse, er, MikeyMike! And exactly what is it that we pesky humans should be doing to change or reverse this course...change our brake pads, LOL! This entire post was meant as a joke, right?

First saying you don't believe in "man made" warming is like saying you don't believe in "man made" pollution. I can guarantee you that the smog cloud over San Francisco isn't being created by God. Likewise I can also guarantee you that if a man changes something then that change will have some kind of impact. If I park my car in front of your house it isn't because GOD did it. Its because I did. This whole non man made argument against stopping the damage we are doing is ridiculous. Thats like saying that the cancer from cigarettes is just God's will. Seriously man do you believe this or are you just repeating something someone else told you?

MikeyMike, do you always live in irrational fear? If we live in fear of what MIGHT happen, even though the possibility is so remote as to be considered nil, then why do you even leave your house? You might get into an automobile accident. You might get hit by a meteorite.

No wonder the left has such a strong following. Other than the leaders who prey on the fears of the followers, they live in fear of everything and want the government to take care of them. No price is too large or too small to pay for the comfort that the politicians are taking care of them. But, I digress.

Back to the original story, this is about cap and trade. Nothing in the bill even pretends to cut global warming. It is all about taxes. An artificial limit is set on carbon emissions. Note that there is no evidence that the level that is set is based on anything close to science. What happens if emssion levels set by the politicians and bureaucrats are exeeded? They have to pay more taxes! Of course these politicians know that the limits aren't going to be met, that's why they are buying votes with promises of doling out the additional revenue that is going to be raised. And who is paying for it all, why we all are. Corporations may pay the taxes, but they collect the money from us. That's why a certain element of the left is so anti-corporations. They are too stupid to realize that corporations don't pay taxes, the customers do.

All this bill is designed to do is artificially raise prices on energy so more revenue can be raised. Not to mention the CONTROL over our lives that the government gets to exercise in the process.

If there is a better way of producing energy than what we have, why isn't it done? Perhaps the best way of determining the validity of people's beliefs in global warming is to let everyone who believes that we need to reduce carbon emissions be the ones who are subject to the cap and trade. Certainly they are willing to "pay their fair share"! They should all be required to ride bicycles and give up their A/Cs, vehicles and flying. But, as always, it isn't about them doing their part, it's about them forcing everyone else to do what they want. All libs should take their homes and businesses off the grid and use only windmills and solar energy or other non-polluting energy. Then you would be living your ideals and beliefs. Of course we know that won't happen because you aren't about to do it either, unless big brother tells you to.

You Are A Republican, from the party of "NO" to everything unless its a Republican idea.... get real....

Oh, sadly beknighted one, it's called a metaphor, and no, it was not meant as a joke.

Witchrunner, as I understand it, the purpose of the legislation is to impose additional costs on those industries and manufacturers who cause the worst harm to the environment, thereby motivating them to change their practices, reduce pollution and become more efficient. Yes, some of those costs will inevitably be passed on to the consumer. The revenues generated are to be turned into subsidies for newly developing clean power technologies. SUBSIDIES for clean power!! How dare they! Well, they've been subsidizing the oil industry with tax breaks to the tune of trillions for years. Let the flow of money shift and soon we'll see the benefits.

Ellie***Excuse me! Not picking a side here... but, if you're going to make an argument learn how to spell first! I'm an not even a 'home-grown' American and I can spell. Maybe you should consider that Republicans are truly the 'idots.'

Well we better get ready the flatulance tax is coming. It really harms the environment plus really and truely irratates the nostrils. And second hand flatulance is the worse kind of all. But handling of the flatulance first is way to risky and causes severe problems.

Most scientists believe and can prove this is true. But there are others who think the whole thing just stinks. Byt we have to act now to stop the over abundance of methane gas being released.

On another news front salava causes cancer. But we know it is only true when swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time.

Since things are going really bad now we have global warming.

Science is great. History is better. The rule of nature cannot be changed. Our effects on the environment are actually relatively small. I am for conservation but this is going a bit over board. I will not now or ever accept the global theory. I now nor will I ever support evolution either. There are things I cannot explain. There are things I just have to accept as true. Global warming is not one of those things I have to accept. But they can try and force it down my throat. Doesn't mean I have to accept it. SO bye bye living free and constitutional rights. The Government says it and we do it. Tear the constitution up right now and sign your bill. As for me I stand firm on freedom.

By the wy I live 25 miles from work and want to move 150 miles away. If you think I want to live in a city you are crazy. But I guess we are going to forced to live in the city next door to work. Yes that this what this government is trying to force down my throat. No I am going to silent and just take it. Guess they could treat me like the protesters in Iran and jsut shoot me. Go ahead. I would rather die then be forced to be a slave to the government.

Irish, I'm hardly a Republican. But, I am versed in the Constitution and there is no doubt that the founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves seeing what has become of the country they created. You and Mikey seem to think that the government was given the power to do whatever it wanted. That's not the case. Read the document and the Amendments. Specifically, read the tenth amendment, then read the powers granted to the federal gov't. Also, read the federalist papers. You will then understand that it was never intended that the federal government can do whatever they damn well please. This country was founded and is based on the concept of freedom. The government has absolutely no right or interest in making sure that I can do things that are only in what it deems to be my best interest. The only real purpose for the federal government is to provide for the national defense and regulate commerce amoung the states and treaties with other countries. This middle is to be understood in the context that the founders didn't want various states enacting various laws that tax or otherwise restrict commerce between states. The latter is to be understood in the context that they didn't want the various states to enter into treaties with other national governments. It was not meant to obtain powers that they otherwise do not have by entering into agreements with other governments regarding matters that were reserved to the states. Yes, this is a simplification, but it goes to the point that the government is doing way more than it should or is healthy. Where does it say that education of children is the responsibility of the federal governement? Where does it say that the federal government has the right to take money from people and give it to artists, scientists, etc.? I could go on.

You obviously think that history has nothing to teach us and that the federal government should be allowed to do whatever it wants. Just by phrasing something as being "in the public interest" doesn't make it so and doesn't mean that they therefore have a right to do anything about it. If one assumes that the government has the right to do anything because they determine that it is our best interests, then we have truly submitted ourselves to tyranny.

The problem in our country is that we have reached a point of complacency. We are not only granting the power of the government to look over us and protect us from ourselves, we are demanding it. If you are familiar at all with history, then you are aware that unless this trend can be stopped, the great story that is the USA, will come to an end shortly.

Yes, I believe in Capitalism. It is what made this country the greatest, most prosperous and most technilogically advanced nation the world has ever known. Our system based on freedom is why we are the envy of the world and why millions of people have died trying to reach our great nation or bring such freedoms to their own nations.

Tell me, what has government ever done to produce weath? The only thing that government has done is take money from someone who has earned it and given it to someone who hasn't. That's not a power the government should ever have. Do you really go to work with the idea that: This is great, I'm doing my social duty by earing money for the government for them to spend wisely in their infinite wisdom? Of course not! You put in the hours with the idea and expectation that you are getting paid for it and that it is your money to spend as you please. Are you really willing to work extra hours and extra hard if it is not going to benefit you personally? Doubt my thesis? Then which all controlling government that has existed would you rather have lived under. Or better yet, which country has a system that currently exists that you would rather live under? If there is another one, then why aren't you there?

With over 81% of the American people against this bill, how can it pass? Simple, our problem is with the House of Representatives. This is where we need to make a change. Let's post the names of those that supported the bill and not re-elect them back into office.

Once the Senate shoots it down, we should do the same thing. Post those names that supported the bill and not re-elect them back into office.

This is the only way we can stop this non-sense.

This bill was sooooo ridiculous that I am comfortable looking at those stats to make my voting decision. No need to look at any other voting records of these stupid politicians. They exposed themselves big time with the bill. Socialist pigs!

I keep reading $17.00 a month to pay for this, but all the experts who aren't in congress say, nearly double the average current bill. I'm sorry, but if I have a choice between gov't "experts" and industry "experts", I've been lied to a lot more by gov't. If the industry says double the current bill, you can bet that's what you'll see no matter what Nancy Pelosi, Comrade Obama, and Barney Franks say. Let's face it, the gov't lies all the time, while big industries only lie about half the time. And we all know that the gov't has NEVER gotten ANYTHING under budget or on time. Besides, the same meteorological "experts who today are screaming "Global Warming will kill us all" are the same Chicken Littles who screamed "The ICE AGE is coming" in the late seventies. For me, I choose common sense. We should work hard to eliminate, or at least reduce, Pollution right now, on the theory that a clean house is nicer than a dirty house. But we should also work towards energy independance dy drilling our OWN oil right here, where WE can make people do it cleaner and more environmentally friendly than ANY Arab oil sheik or South American Scumbag (yeah, Chavez, this means you!!!). We should make alternate sources of energy big tax breaks, but remember, growing our fuel is not possible, unless we conquer about twice our land mass of arable land, and Grow nothing but corn on it all. OH, YEAH, I forgot, corn is one of the most destructive crops to grow, requiring more petrochemical fertilizers than any other crop. And we'd also have to wipe out all indiginous life on the land to keep the crops safe. Do you see where we're going with this? NO solution is perfect, so we must continuously work to improve, without giving in to hysteria every time Al Gore needs more money. After all, Liberal Europeans even classiffied that crap film of his as fiction, NOT a documentary.

witchrunner, I hate to correct you; but you forget one thing about liberals: They want other people to pay for their programs, they do not want to spend their own money for their ideas. If they actually put their money where their mouths are, they would actually be poor and not have a lot of power. They put just enough behind their ideas to get uneducated, emotional people to fund their movements until they can shout loud enough to get the idiots in power to pass their agendas.

Let me say something else, those of you who support this cap-and-trade bill are voting to STARVE Americans. The government in the past decade has been going after farmers. Soon, there will be so few farms left in this country that they will all be controlled by the government and there will be bread and food lines. This is all because farmers, whom are already barely subsistent (due to prices already being regulated by the government), will soon be unable to stay in business due to:

1) The regulation of methane emissions by cattle.

2) The already burdensome need to hold public hearings to improve their manure storage and handling facilities (which produce more methane, btw).

3) Prices being held so low that many farmers have already sold/are already selling their farms to development companies whom then take the land and build buildings on it thereby reducing viable and available farmland.

4) High Gasoline prices have increased the cost to provide good feed for maximum production of milk.

5) Ethanol production has reduced the corn supply, which is the PRIMARY source of nutrients to create milk and bulk up beef.

6) Minimum wage increases have affected farmers by requiring them to pay higher labor costs, which reduces the meager supply of money that can actually go into their own bank accounts.

7) Uneducated idiots believe that food comes from supermarkets/Wal-mart/grocery stores instead of grown/produced by farmers.

In the end, we will be importing our food like the Soviet Union in the mid-1980s and with today's threats from terrorism, it will be an unsafe food supply. Already in the early-mid 1990s we had signs of what could happen with importing our food. Or, has everyone forgotten the million children that got sick in Michigan from berries imported from Mexico which were turned into fruit cups and then distributed in the School Lunch Program (which is supposed to be US farm products ONLY).

Note: My family owns a 1000 cattle dairy farm in Central Pennsylvania and this bill could put us out of business due to the debts we already have from getting only $10.00 - $11.00 per 100 lbs of milk we produce. Check the price of a gallon of whole milk (3.5% milk fat) in the grocery store which is the amount for approximately 8 lbs of milk. Use math to figure out how much for 100lbs. Here in Central PA it was $3.06 per gallon about 3 days ago. That's about 38 cents per pound, so milk is being sold for about $38.00 per 100 lbs in the stores and farmers are only getting $10.00. Who is making the money? Not the farmers.

Oh, the liberals will be paying for this baby if it passed in Congress, which it won't.

In Iowa, the average household will see an increase of $110 per month for electricity, 50-70 cents increase in gasoline prices, a 95% increase in natural gas, and so on.

American steel prices in Ohio is estimated to increase by 30-40 percent. Exactly how will this help our hurting automobile industry. It won't, in fact, you can say good bye to American steel because they will simply buy their steel from China or India. Sounds like more jobs moving overseas across the board. When America needs jobs, why would our government sell us out causing more job losses to overseas operations? Simple, too many of them are going to get rich especially Al Gore. Al Gore is expected to become the first billionaire from this bill should it pass Congress.

With my 40 years of CEO experience, I can't help but wonder about the basis of your economic expertise, Eva. Personally, I don't believe you have any clue about what "our economy can bear." If you have facts, present and document them. If not, muffle your hot air exhaust.

She can't muffle her hot air exhaust, she has floated by already!

OK Henry, since you are an expert explain to me how you can GAURANTEE this will produce more jobs than will take away. because without a gaurantee there is no way we should proceed with this bill.

There are few guarantees in this life. I can "GAURANTEE" [how ignorant (the spelling) and childish (the caps)] you that continuing on our present course will cause disaster. We must muster the courage to change, and change again if necessary. But, our courage isn't enough. We citizens desperately need to be represented in Congress by people who can be accurately described without reference to poultry excrement. I am disgusted by the politics of fear ("conservatism"). Grow up. Man up. Get this country moving in a potentially- sustainable direction again.

With my 40 years of CEO experience, I can't help but wonder about the basis of your economic expertise, Eva.

With your 40 years experience, I have to wonder about your motives sir. I mean look at the economy as it stands right now at the hands of you so-called...experts! Stop buying into the Kenyesian Economics system and try something new. Your brand of economics has never worked in history nor will it work now. Get a grip....some of us are not buying your load of BS anymore....you can keep the entire truckload sir.

Henry, 40 years as a CEO of what, an ice cream stand?

If you have so much experience you would know that no industry abandons its current activity for something untried, untested or unproven, the shift is made gradually based on facts. You make me laugh with your "holier than thou" elitist attitude.

henry, keep believing the government. if you think they know what they are doing and believe them, you need to pull th wool from over your eyes. this will kill the middle class, drive jobs out of this country, and take even more money from your pocket. all so congress can make some money, and look good to all the green hippy nuts out there. well, i do not believe in global warming. i believe in cycles. and this is one of them. gore and his nuts are making billions off people like you that believe this crap. and congress has bought into it.

I can't believe there are so many people buying into Al Gore's JUNK SCIENCE and are willing to pay taxes on almost everything that has an on/off switch. GE and a lot of other Obama supporters are going to make BILLIONS. Those BILLIONS is OUR money that Cap and Crap steals. This has nothing to do with Global Warming as that myth has already been debunked, it has everything to do with Nationalizing our Energy. Wake up people

Here comes Chicken Little again: "the sky is falling! the sky is falling!" Fear is the Republican's #1 tool to obstruct any needed change for this country, and like Reagan used to say" "there you go again." The truth is, our carbon-based energy policies have killed our economy and they are killing our planet.When all you care about is what you think you will lose, then you deserve to lose. As for atmospheric science being "junk science", you have absolutely no idea what real science is. One thing it is not, is opinion, and that's all Repubican'ts have.

Or maybe it's the truth and you're just ignoring it for your own reasons---mainly you don't give a damn about the person on fixed incomes or the working class. Odumbo thinks the working class is nothing but a pocket book for his half-witted Communist crap-----I hope that people wake up and get rid of the bastard.

Ed, speaking of Chicken Little and fear mongering...

Claiming that the oceans will rise, that the world will be gripped in drought and famine, and that hurricanes will kill millions, and all the other far-fetched "crises" that can be imagined by Global Warming? Who exactly is doing the fear mongering? It sure as hell isn't the Republicans.

Eva, good point and think of it this way if this Tax & Kill bill is passed, we LOSE, China WINS. That basically says it all. So I guess our so called leaders in D.C. could care less about America's interest (no, these narcissitic dirt bags are looking out for their OWN interest and their cronies...NOT you and me...so I say, "to the gallows ALL of them and OFF with their heads, the revolution has begun").

henry 111,

Is that guarantee backed by your life so that if we do stay on this course and nothing happens you'll kill yourself. That is good enough reason to do nothing.

Henry111,

Do you back that guarantee with your life so that if we do nothing and nothing happens you'll kill yourself. If thats the case then its worth it to do nothing and hope you're wrong because the world would be so much better off without you.

Eva- Of course jobs will be lost and the cost will be enormous. But more jobs will be created than lost and frankly I don't believe that you can put a $ price on the future of humanity in exchange for short term gain. I think that's called by such terms as callous, cold-hearted, selfish, etc. Also, did you never attend school? We haven't always been an industrial nation as you put it. We began as an agrarian society, but then the "industrial revolution" developed in the 19th century. Ever heard of that? Apparently not. Perhaps you should get some sort of basic education before claiming to know all of the answers, because otherwise you may encourage others to remain lost in their own ignorance!

From my ice cream cart, here's the scoop! I live pretty damn well, travel all over the world, and make an embarrassing amount of money. Actually, instead of an ice cream cart, I run a materials science lab and serve as a consultant to manufacturers, but that is immaterial.

If Captain Marvelous were marvelous, or a captain of anything, he would know that the leading enterprises in every sector constantly adopt untested and unproven methods. It is called innovation. American excellence at innovation, and the courage to take the risks inherent in solving our problems instead of refusing to face them, is why our nation is a superpower today.

This life takes guts and education and innovation and work. You can't muster that from listening to talk radio folks.

I'm reading a LOT of PERSONAL ATTACKS here regarding Henry's first comment in response to Eva. What exactly are you people so afraid of?

I don't know if you've noticed, but energy production based on fossil fuels ain't working anymore! As I've stated earlier, Cap & Trade and the Kyoto Protocol's IPCCC implementation(s) will begin to have an even greater economic impact on the US economy in the years to come if we continue to ignore the problem.

And if you're one of those blinded believers who thinks we don't have a global climate change problem, then I suggest you run along to Fox News dot com and join the brain trust proselytizing there...

Here's a little industry fact that most of you won't know because you've never been the CEO of anything more than possibly your alpha-numeric and pajama drawer:

Procter & Gamble, a great American company based in Cincinnati with 29 plants world-wide, is going "green." They are immediately reducing their carbon footprint by 10% with goals for further reductions...

We have a plant here on the West Coast that has a $250,000 a month electricity bill; they're tired of the brownouts (from the utility gaming the system, recall Enron) and they're installing solar. With over 1,000 employees at the plant, no one is loosing their job. As of a matter of fact, jobs are being created here locally as one of the world's largest solar cell manufacturers is in the next city.

So to all you naysayers and detractors, I'd suggest you start to bone up on your homework 'cause Henry has a pretty good idea what's going on in the real world of business an commerce, and it's apparent most of you do not.

Bill, it sounds like P&G is doing exactly what Capitalism is meant to do, create change if economics dictate, not the government.

I don't think anyone ever disagrees that we have global climate change, isn't that the definition of climate...change? If I wanted to live in a place that was constant, I'd either live in Quito or the south pole. They seem to be pretty consistent year round. I like the change of seasons, I like snow in the winter and hot sun in the summer, rain on some days and bright sunshine on others. If we had it any other way, what would a meteorologist do for a living?

As far as Henry, yeah...ummm, I'm a CEO too. Of a large conglomerate thingamagigy, I travelled the world, twice, and I own huge houses all over, and I make a quadragazillon-billion dollars per year (that also just happens to be Obama budget for 2010). I also own a H2 because if water levels increase by 15" (as the EPA states), the H2 gets 16" of clearance. The Prius...only 5".

Xplorer,

It's funny how you guys voted into the Highest Office in the Country someone with no business or governing skills. Most of his Cabinet is a bunch of tax cheats. Then we have the Czars that don't answer to anyone but him. I still cant figure out who came up with he'd be better for the economy, to do what break it. How can anyone who's ever been in any kind of business sign something into law they've never read? Talk about the sky is falling. Then we just take over the Auto industry and tell dealers who have been in business for years sorry we're closing you down. These people bought and paid for those Franchises what right does Obama have to close their Dealerships?

Hey, Henry since you seem to know so much about Business is this a usual way to treat someone who owns a business? I bet you wouldn't want someone coming in telling you how much you can make as the CEO huh? I don't agree with how much money some of the guys made but, I also think Ball Players, Movie Stars, Singers and a lot of people make to much, but I also don't think I have the right to take money they earned and say you've got to much give some to me because I don't make as much. We are supposed to be a capitalist society, but I don't think it's going to be that way much longer.

Our country has had years to drill for oil here but one some tree hugger always had some reason why we shouldn't. We wouldn't disturb a mouse so we could get off foreign oil. What do they think happens every year in California with all the brush fires? Anyway I think This Cap and Trade is just something else to tax the crap out of everyone. Why does everything have to be so rushed through on everything they vote on under Obama? What are they trying to hide? Where's all the transparency? He said I'm going to read every Bill line by line and cut out the pork just another lie. What are all these people on fixed incomes going to do? It's like to Obama the elderly are just disposable. You know we will all be their one day.

Henry, Well Mr. CEO, if you are as smart and innovative as you say you are you would know that all innovation begins with freedom of choice and usually out of some form of incentive (inventions and inventors just don't fall out of the sky). Inventors freely choose to create new products and services and not by the gov't aiming a loaded gun at their head. You seem to think that we are at a point where we can just flip a switch and, wallah, we now have unlimited solar, wind, geothermal, etc. power to run our cars and homes. Sir, you can not be that arrogant and stupid to not realize that we are anywhere from one to two generations from realizating alternative technology. Go ahead, blame it on the Repubs or whoever (actually, most of it has been due to the enviro-wackos and their know-nothing leftist buddies in Congress...the greatest stifflers of innovation and progress), but our main source of energy IS (oh, there goes those caps again...please don't slit your wrist over my immaturity) oil & gas and it will be that way for many more years to come. Do you now get it? Okay, now run off and go take care of your lemonade stand Mr. CEO.

Sir Knight,

I'm pretty sure you mean voila, not "wallah" as you typed above. Wallah is Hindi slang for a lower class servant sort of person like a tea-wallah or a dish-wallah, hence the name of that pop band. Voila is French for basically "see it."

Oh, and by the way, your grandmother smells of elderberries!

Rich, sorry to bring this up, but just a curiosity

"no one is loosing their job"

Do you mean losing instead?

What do you think?

As I see it, Henry III doesn't care about the massive increase in the cost of living like us blue collar workers. Go figure, as he stated, he makes an embarrassing amount of money. So, don't listen to him. He certainly doesn't represent the average American citizen when it comes to making ends meet, raising a family, and trying to secure enough money to send our kids to college. Just tax the crap out of him.

Besides, I have never met a CEO that truly earned his/her income. In fact, CEO's of large corporations are much of the problem regarding bleeding their companies dry as they lay-off the people that actually earn a living.

Is my grammar ok Henry? I know it is, unlike your response complaining about Eva's grammar. You apparently missed a few words there. Try proof reading your own writing before you post (it's simple, click on the little icon with the check mark).

Hey Rick in BH:

P&G is already going green you stated. Looks like P&G made a decision without our government stuffing it down their throats. In fact, once again, the free market is taking care of the concerns of the Country and it's citizens. So, why do we need this bill to pass? Simple, it's a tax!

The 60's revolution generation are making their latest and greatest stand with this Cap & Tax crap. I always knew those good-for-nothing, stinky, smelly hippies would one day be the ruination of this country. One day in the not so far off future, these loser/scum will come to be known as the biggest stain in all of American history. I can't wait for the day the last of these jerks dies off. Then maybe we will have the chance to take back the America that once existed in all its greatness, but not until these fart sniffers have taken their last breath! I wish upon you, Destroyers of America, the utmost pain and suffering because THAT IS what YOU are pushing on America today.

Knight- I believe you're confusing cap-and-trade with a carbon tax. Both are important but you seem lost in your hatred and delusional in your thinking. I hope for your own sake that you can overcome the ignorance you so blindly embrace and actually become part of the solution, rather than lumping those whom you dislike with a simplistic label and wishing death on them. Grow up, man! We need all the help we can get to extricate ourselves from results of the America of your myopic view. It's a new century and you can't turn back the clock, but you can work towards your goal of a great America- just NOT the one that worked in the 19th and 20th centuries. But America CAN be great again!

Knight, you have certainly given yourself an appropriate moniker.

xplorer: "confusing cap-and-trade with a carbon tax"

exactly what do you think this is?

cj, thanks for the follow-up, I could not believe this nitwit (probably a former hippie himself, LOL!) made that comment. I've been scratching my head ever sense. And I don't think people like him ARE the solution. No, they are the problem. Thanks for stating the obvious to the brain dead. Rick, also thanks, I'm sure that came straight from the heart!

Knight,

I take offence sir....I am one of those leftover "hippies" And I am vehemently against this tax. Please don't wish death upon me....not all of us were tree huggers....I always preferred women...they are much softer and a whole lot more cuddly......And.... I never got a splinter in my butt from one...lol

You are absolutely right. Reminds me of England in the the 1700's when folks left there and wanted to join a new colony free of excessive taxation by government when people wanted to a chance at free life, liberty and the pursuit of property. I think Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams would be apalled that we are going back to the old ways after a mere 235 years.

You only have yourself to blame. Democracy is a full contact sport, not a spectator one. How many times did you sit and passively accept Reagan's BS about the government being the enemy? And you believed it. Nobody had a problem with government under Eisenhower, and this country went through one of the greatest economic expansions in its history. People get the government they deserve. If government is a monster, then YOU created it.

While avoiding near term costs for energy investment, we have pushed a bow wave of problems before us that are swamping the economy and our environment. The consequences of those deferred costs are precipitating global problems and require immediate attention. Consumption of polluting fuel that we have to borrow to buy is a dead end and dumping money into a 100 year old energy architecture mires us deeper into a situation with no future.

See progressive ideas in action: go to Tokyo Gas

The era of energy diversification in the 21st century is now.

Drawbacks of large-scale electric power generation, and distributed generation.

• Electricity is easy to carry and difficult to store! Distributed electrical power generation making use of energy properties
• Why are high hopes held for the fuel cell?
• Investing in future eco-friendly, home grown, engineered for the future energy technology will improve our life quality and is a foundation for economic health. What is it, exactly, we are waiting for? What should we do?

1. Deploy New Generation Methods

1.1.Wind

1.2.Solar

1.3.New Hydro

1.4.Tidal Motion

1.5.Fuel Cells

2. Improve Transmission Efficiencies

2.1.Re-architect Grid Pipelines and Controls

2.2.Reduce Transmission Distances

2.3.Generate Electricity at Point of Use

3. Address Availability Issues

3.1.Interleave Generation Methods

3.2.Use Storage Sparingly

3.3.Rely on Homeland Fuel Sources

4. Collapse Technology Time to Market

4.1.Leverage Current Assets to Transition

4.2.Establish 5 Year Engineering Standards

4.3.Subsidize Technology Deployment

4.4.Use Regional Fabrication, Construction and Service

5. Prioritize Investment Longevity

5.1.Invest for the Future

5.2.Build for Long Life Cycle

5.3.Establish Strong Quality Standards

6. Improve Energy Security

6.1.Design for Catastrophic Weather Events

6.2.Leverage Local and Regional Fuel Sources

6.3.Distribute Generation

6.4.Bury Transmission Lines

7. Integrate Energy Generation and Usage

7.1.Home Fueling Stations

7.2.Residential Power Generation

7.3.Onboard Electric Rail Power

7.4.Electric Autos with On Board Fuel Cell Rechargers

Government IS the enemy when it intrudes into your life and paycheck without your consent----ask somoene who is a refugee from Eastern Europe if you want a good idea of how unfettered government destroys lives.

At the time that I am typing this, it would appear that the "democratic" opinion on this issue is slightly more than 80% not in favor of tackling this issue, at this time, in this manner. As I stated above, it is a worthwhile effort, but so are all of the other worthwhile efforts. We are not a population with deep enough pockets to keep handing money over to the government without having to sacrifice things like, say, our children's college funds, etc. I believe that the private sector has the capabilities to start working on alternative sources of energy that will be clean, such as T. Boone Pickens. This would be the ideal place to let the efforts begin. Once the country is in a better financial situation, perhaps revisit the issue. The current stimulus bill has money ear marked for this kind of initiative as well. As for my where abouts at any given adminstrative times of the past, I was probably working too hard and too many hours to really be paying enough attention to the day to day political games. As for government being the enemy, I do believe that there is some aspect of this in every single adminstration that has been elected over the years. I have always found things that I agreed with as well as things that I disagreed with in all of them. Obviously, some more than others. We should not fear the government, but the government should fear us.

Jack DeTate, good post.

Finally, someone who's looking at the economics of the situation. The days of "There Will Be Blood" are history. And thank goodness for the change. Given the rise in population and finite resources, something simply has to yield.

Hey cubscout,

Your propoganda is not working... Better try and come up with ta better story than 'I worked with', or 'I talked with.' Better yet, go back to your handlers and tell them that your blogging is useless, people aren't as stupid as you, and your puppet masters believe.

In the meantime, America, get ready to take back our country. We are going to have to clean house real soon...

Jack,

I like the way you think. Not to mention the well conceived outline.

If we weren't giving billions of dollars to fat cats in big banking and foreign countries we'd have more than enough money to pay for this without higher taxes. The "powers that be" in Washington really have their priorities screwed up. Screw peoples lives, screw peoples health, as long as the rich get richer and foreign countries bow down to our power trip!

Just keep counting your pennies while the water rises around you. You'll get what you deserve.

Living in the socialist state of VT, I will finally get my oceanfront property!

Ron, I think we've pretty much demonstrated that what had worked in the past is no longer a viable option. Even if we were an island all to ourself, which we are not.

The total costs of ignoring the problem until it's too late would completely dwarf the modest expenses this law mandates.

Suppose the temperature keeps going up, half of Greenland melts and the oceans do rise even ten feet, not the worst case scenario of thirty, just ten.

What happens? Half of Florida is underwater. Miami property values? Zip. Zilch. Nada. Also, Bye-bye New Orleans and just about everything else on the gulf coast. Sarasota, Pensacola, Houston, Galveston, fuggeddabout it. Sayonara. Total of lost income, jobs and real estate values... Quadrillions... I can't even hazard a guess.

Now on the other hand, Mahattan island is small enough to build a dike around, but it's got to be 20 feet high to meet the storm surge from all the hurricanes that are now striking that far north on the east coast since the tropic zone has expanded. That'll cost a pretty penny. Maybe Donald Trump could foot the bill, maybe.

But here in California, I'll have beach front property. Whoo-hoo! Too bad it's so frickin' hot all the time...

Yes, be afraid. Be VERY afraid...

I think we've suffered enough scare tactics and low-brow politics for the last 8 years. Time to turn the open the book and turn the page.

Sinca, and all those of you voted for the comment,

Why don't you take your hate-mongering and paranoia somewhere else? You bore me.

I agree MikeyMike. All that 80%+ of people who don't agree with your point of view ought to just shut up and get off this vine. How dare they have the audacity to offend you and speak in disaccord with your thoughts! The very idea!

James-Lee- I'm not sure how you arrived at your 80%+ number- did you review all of the comments posted (which, by-the-way, don't all address MikeyMike's comments) and find enough to make a statistically significant comparison? But definitely include me among those in your "80%+"! And I'm impressed by your use of the word "disaccord", not a lot of people are familiar with it. For online forums I would've used the shorter and simpler "who disagree with you", but I admire your sense of sarcasm. Keep up the good work!

MikeyMike, you sound like you are the hate monger, an ignorant one at that, about the underlying plan to bring our America down. You might be easily brainwashed to think not, but 80 plus percent of us have realized by now that such a plan is being implemented. We need to stop it now, vote no on this bill and any other bill that sends us, in this country, deeper into debt. You had better wake up MikeyMike, 80 percent of us already have. And, it might be a good idea for you to study the adverse impact of so-called remedies these politicians attempt to dictate - even without voter input or consent - we have to thank talk radio for keeping us accurately informed - without them, socialists in office today will have already had their party at freedom expense.

"we have to thank talk radio for keeping us accurately informed"

...that pretty much explains it. Did your drug addicted fat windbag of a leader instruct all you sheep to log onto msn and flood the vote with your scientifically ignorant self-centered views?

When are you folks going to wake up and realize that this is about more than the price of gasoline today or next week. It's about whether or not our grandchildren will have a safe and healthy place to live.

When and how did "conservative" come to mean a lack of interest in conserving anything except corporate profits at the expense of the health of all humanity.

Agreed. Democrat/Republican, Pelosi/Haster, Obama/Bush. I don't care who you are, Policticians must STOP, SHUT UP and THINK. I know this sounds crazy but somebody in Washington needs to think. This madness is getting crazier by the day.

Our very existance is threatened???  No more debate?  You seem to be a 'my way or the hiway" type.    There are more and more people trying to speak out against this global warming theory.   So they cannot be heard? 

This sounds like more of a way to control people than climate change.

Yes our existence is threatened: the acidity of the oceans is increasing very quickly, and eventually (if we don't change) it will be so acidic nothing will be able to live in them (except for microscopic beings, maybe). We're also quickly running out of fresh water (but again preventable if we change our practices). No, there is no more debate: since 2007, no national or international scientific body has officially held a dissenting opinion. Its not "my way," its the "if-we-want-to-survive-as-a-species way." And no, unless these people speaking out against man-made climate change have a background in environmental science, they should not be heard. If they are not authorities on the subject and don't really know what they're talking about, why the hell sohuld I, or anyone for that matter, listen to them? And if they are environmental scientists, they better have some damn good data to support their theories.

Carbon dioxide propagandists have a campaign going for an "acid in the ocean" alternative to the greenhouse gas scare. This tactic is a result of the danger of the "greenhouse gas" lie blowing up in their faces at any time due to the obvious scientific frauds.

Carbon dioxide has been an extremely effective and insidious propaganda scheme, being used as the latest pretext for population reduction and shoving the lower classes out of the economy. The public considers the greenhouse gas problem to be unquestionable science and an imminent peril. This does not immunize it from scientific truth, which is bound to expose it eventually. But the acid ploy is unrelated to global warming, and it salvages the propaganda value of carbon dioxide.

Two billion years ago, there was a huge amount of carbon dioxide in the air and carbonate in the oceans. Since then, most of it disappeared. It was converted to calcium carbonate in the oceans and ultimately limestone. Now there is a shortage. The human addition is slightly rescuing life and the planet by increasing the CO2. For propagandists to claim humans are destroying life and the planet through CO2 couldn't be a bigger fraud.

I know no one on here wants to hear this, but I can't help it: if you "chicken littles" would only read the first chapter of Genesis, you would realize that everything was made "very good". For those of you who think overpopulation is the problem - not so. God told man to multiply. The earth was created just for the purpose of populating it. Since the earth was created with everything in perfect balance by an all-knowing Creator, we are so arrogant to think we can destroy it. I'm not saying we don't have to take care of the earth, I'm all for keeping it clean and all, but you would have to an atheist to believe that we are just hanging in space dependent on ourselves, with the ability to control the destiny of this planet. What a sad thought.

Sage,

Nice try, no one is going to buy into your new approach to scaring the world with junk science. Your acidity scare is such a joke, Jaques Yves Cousteou tried that in the '70's until he was proven wrong by NOAA, NASA and just about every other scientific organization out there.

Acidity is the latest lie being promoted by the global warming charlatans.

My understanding is there has been climate change since day one. What is the scientific consensus on what the climate should be? Were man made emissions a factor when we had climate change in the past. Seems to me there was an Ice age, I also remember reading about a warming period a few hundred years ago that caused quite a bit of problem. Unfortunately for the Malthus (dismal theorem) crowd is we don't know enough right now to know what we don't know. People have been predicting the imminent destruction of the earth due to the misdeeds of the human race for a long time, maybe this time they are right and we will exterminate ourselves. It seems to me that the air is worse in China and India and Mexico City among other places than here, whats the point if they are not going to participate in saving us from ourselves. My advice is look at who gets what out of this legislation, those facts may tell the real story.

My biggest concern is this , if the most prodominant spokesperson on this issue, does absolutely nothing in his personal life to save the world. (Al Gore flies constantly in private jets and has energy bills for one month nearing the thousands) I mean if he can't make sacrifices (Instead of profits) in the name of global warming why should I?

Sage,

Even if what you say is true it won't matter anyway. We will have so many restrictions and be paying such ungodly taxes we won't be able to buy food and run our air in the summer. So you see we'll either starve to death or die of heat strokes.

Oh and one more thing what I'd really like to know is why does the big Global Warming Guru leave one of the biggest carbon footprints out there? It's alright for us to all make sacrifices just not the Carbon Guru.

Moose-975922, good job copy-pasting vague statements like the "obvious scientific fraud" of "the greenhouse gas lie." If the scientific fraud is obvious enough for someone like you (i.e., NOT AN ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTIST) to point out, why hasn't a major scientific body (i.e., FULL OF ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTISTS) pointed it out? Why do you feel like you can argue with people who spend their whole lives studying various aspects of environmental science? Would you argue with a doctor about a disease/condition? Would you argue with an IT specialist about how to fix a computer? (Note: I assume you are neither a medical doctor nor an IT specialist because, if you were, it would make sense to debate with them. But I think the examples illustrate my point.)

You say the ocean isn't increasing in acidity/decreasing in pH; I say your full of @!$%#. And rather than just copy-paste from an opinionated article written by someone with no authority like you do, here's a source:

(dot)stanford(dot)edu/research/Oceans/GES205/Caldeira_Science_Anthropogenic%20Carbon%20and%20ocean%20pH.pdf

And another one:

(dot)ipsl(dot)jussieu(dot)fr/~jomce/acidification/paper/Orr_OnlineNature04095(dot)pdf

(Another note: I had to change the periods in the URLs to (dot) in order to get Newsvine to display them.)

The science is there, but its up to the people to take what science shows and solve the problem. I guess we really are @!$%#ed.

And as for Al Gore... I mean, someone has to travel and speak and get the word out. But still, he appointed himself as "Carbon Guru" even though he has no formal education about anything related to the environment. It would be like if a sports star wrote his own sponsorship deal with Nike, signed it, then started making commercials for them all on his own accord because he felt he was good enough. Ar-ro-gant. Plus I find him smug and irritating in general.

Ok so changing "." to "(dot)" wasn't enough. Let's try this:

h t t p : / / p a n g e a . s t a n f o r d . e d u / r e s e a r c h / O c e a n s / G E S 2 0 5 / C a l d e i r a — S c i e n c e — A n t h r o p o g e n i c % 2 0 C a r b o n % 2 0 a n d % 2 0 o c e a n % 2 0 p H . p d f

h t t p : / / w w w . i p s l . j u s s i e u . f r / ~ j o m c e / a c i d i f i c a t i o n / p a p e r / O r r — O n l i n e N a t u r e 0 4 0 9 5 . p d f

I have the answer-----someone farted!

AMEN, AMEN & AMEN!

How about we all stop breathing. Carbon has never been proven to be harmful to the atmospere. It is "The" essential element for life.

Where in the world did that come from?....stop breathing?...are you insane?... did you even read the post before commenting? WE inhale oxygen and exhale CO2. Plants on the other hand, inhale CO2 and exhale oxygen. More plants would mean that there is more CO2 being taken from the atmosphere and more oxygen being placed in the atmosphere...ie....cleaner air to breath. Instead the powers that be are leveling forrests throughout the world at an alarming rate to provide housing, offices etc. Scaling back population or at least maintaining it will mean that no more forrests will need to be mowed down to accomodate the human race. Yes it is a manmade problem, but it is manmade in that we are destroying the main source (plants) to remove the CO2 from the air.

So let's review: Population control combined with reforestation of the planet can reverse the effects of "percieved" global warming

Average Joe - you sound like you're a member of the eugenics cult. You first.......

No, actually, I believe that for every action, there is a opposite and equal reaction.When you cut down all of the trees, we will stop breathing. Unless of course you have some way to produce the oxygen that is more sound and efficient than plants, I can see no other alternative.People like you come to a debate with nothing but your own opinion, no facts no resources...nothing but your opinion. Opinions are like A**holes...everybody has one....stop talking out of yours.

"God really must love stupid people, he made so many of them"

Joe,

your modest proposal is right on target. Capping population growth is indeed the only way to fix the crisis over the longest view. If we spin the current exponential growth patterns out for another five hundred years, the supply and demand problems quickly become insurmountable. At some point, when food and water becomes rare enough that third world populations can't afford it, I suppose the growth tapers off.

Trouble is, how do you get hormonally driven family oriented folks to voluntarily stop procreating? One Child laws here in the U.S.? Wow, I can't imagine the backlash. To say nothing of what the Mormons would do!!

Joe,

If we did that what would all the illegals and people who keep having babies to get a bigger check do? If the government really is so worried about the environment they'd help these ranchers that the illegals come across their land leaving behind all kinds of trash. Oh no we can't do that the dems might lose some votes. Just imagine what it will be like when they grant them all amnesty and all their family members flood over. who's going to pay for all them. What about the the AMERICAN jobs they take. Go to any construction site and thats all you see, along with all the trash they just throw on the ground. Real classy huh? Oh and don't forget all the shovel ready jobs waiting for them too.

This is just a small portion of something I have been rolling around in my mind,I hope this addresses your immagration question

Immigration?

I say let anyone into to this country that wants in, With these stipulations:

You do not have a criminal conviction in any other country'

You provide two medical reports done at not more than 6 month intervals and within a year before the time of application for entry into the U.S.showing that you are disease free (HIV, Hep, etc.)

You come here on a five year permit.During your Permitted time you will:

Register for a Social Security Card and have your card before you may work here.

During the time your permit is valid, you will submit to double the normal rate for SSI payments

Any children born to you while you are still on a valid permit will not automatically become a citizen of this nation. They have the same status as their parents (temporary, until all requirements of the parents is met for citizenship).

You will not be permitted welfare. It is not a option don't ask.

During the time your permit is valid, you will : Learn to speak english, Use it in everyday life. You must becume fluent. If you come here, do not expect us to learn your language in order to communicate. English is spoken here!

While I understand the diversity of cultures in this country The nation was founded by the British Colonists as such, the official language is English.If you want to keep your cultural language alive, that is fine, but you left your country and now you are here, so when in public, Speak English..

lets all have at least one thing in common....One Language...English!

You will learn the history and Contitution not only of the nation, but also of the state where you live.

You will submit to a test to validate that you know these things and you will be sworn in by your oath as a citizen.

Failure to attain Citizenship within the five year permit time, revokes the permit and you return to your country of origin, not sad tales, no excuses. Your stay here is over and you may not apply again for five years.

Anyone caught in the country without the valid permit to be here will be jailed for a period of one year first offence 5 years for any subsquent offense. Also, while incarcerated inmates will have no recreational equipment,TV's etc....eats and sleeps nothing more. While incarcerated, all inmates will work 10 hour days 6 days a week in a variety of jobs, from gardening, raising pigs and cattle as well as making license plates. This way the citizens don't have to support them.Prisons are for punishment, why should we support you? Don't complain if you end up there. The gardens ,cattle , pigs ect. will be used to both feed you and to clothe you (any excess will be sold to the local community at a fair market value, which will in turn clothe you).Once in one of our prisons, any violations of law will be dealt with according to the crime(but, I see a lot of people in good old fashioned stocks and pillory, as well as the good old fashion public floggings.

....just a thought......Joe

Speak for yourself.

This growing cesspool we live in is based on high volume carbon driven disposable comsumption. I don't like the outlook and want to curb the bad habits now. Are you saying that providing 100 MW of energy from non pollution sources is not as good as 100 MW from coal?