Do you think the so-called 'green' economy can help lead the country out of recession?
Since history shows that in other countries for every green job created at least one other job is lost, I don't see how that gives anybody any real hope.
#1 - Thu Jul 2, 2009 4:56 PM EDTAmericanwolf, you must vote republican. They're the only people on Earth who can rationalize the disuse of any alternative, clean energy source. Batteries don't need to be disposed of, they can be recylced. The wind turbines can be placed in any state with the room for it, such as here in Texas. Trust me we've got enough space for a couple hundred wind farms to be placed well away from residential areas. Solar power is underestimated. There's promising developments in personal solar power systems for powering individual homes(imagine financing your own personal home solar energy grid). Solar power can be used to charge electric cars as well. All we have to do is build the infastructure and support it (jobs and industry creation) The return on the investment is the savings incurred by not owing an electric company a bill every month, or not having to pay to refuel our vehicles, simply recharge, or install a new solar charged battery system. By human timescales, the Sun is an infinite source of energy, and so is wind.
Nuclear energy sounds good, but creates harmful wastes in production and can lead to catastrophic accidents. Don't think for a second we can't have several more Chernobyl or 3 Mile Island incidents. Nuclear waste storage is also a problem as it is radioactive and takes far too long to decay. Offshore drilling won't solve anything, because it will take nearly 20 years to get production on those wells going at a good enough rate to keep up with demand. Natural gas, while definitely better than oil or coal, is still only 30% cleaner. It is not only non-renewable, but still releases toxins into the atmosphere. The goal is 0 emmisions, not reduced or less harmful emmissions. There is no such thing as "Clean Coal Technology" it's mostly a marketing gimmick by the coal industry to stay relevant in the face of emerging alternative energy sources. The idea is that you can burn coal, which is just hardened carbon, and somehow contain all the emmissions created by it. The problem is that any system that could pull it off would be outrageously expensive and those expenses would be passed on to consumers in the form of higher energy bills. Heaven forbid any of these systems turn out to be faulty, leaking emmissions into the atmosphere anyway.
The entire world needs to move away from fossil fuel use if we are to make a positive impact on our planet.
Plant a tree. use up some of that co2. The cap and trade bill is just one more way the politicians can grab control of every aspect of our live. If they are serious they would turn up their thermostats in winter and down in summer, double up on their jetsetting, and drive a "green" car. They don't even know what the problem is. let alone how to solve it. As evidenced by their rush to vote for something they haven't even read. They just have those feelings about things and are out of touch with reality.
i wrote the ethnol council twice and asked a simple question if it were not subidized by the federal government what would ethenol have to be sold at to make a profit? and they just did not respond to that question.... truth it would be around five dollars a gallon at the least and consumption would be greater because it is not as fuel efficent as gasoline.. a real looser when it is made with a food source..like corn FOOLS IN CHARGE ?IN WASHIINGTON don't need to say more...
Republicans oppose anything that would help the country and have no ideas whatsoever. I agree with green technology but I couldn't put up the fight against the NO ideas = Republican party.
#2 - Thu Jul 2, 2009 4:59 PM EDTI know you mean well, Rixar13,, but you've bought into the biggest smokescreen ever in American politics - and that's the Myth of a Two Party System. It doesn't exist. There is only one party, and it's the Republicrat Party.. and their goal is to utterly consume your liberties at a rabid dog pace.
It's NOT about Republican vs. Democratic ideals anymore. It's about the Republicrats vs. YOUR LIBERTY... so far ... .they are winning.
Going green ...What a joke..Congress fly jets with only a few people in it in place of flying commercial...We want to spend million to give a few some mercury laden light bulb.That they need a hasmax team to dispose of. We think an electric car will lower pollutions , but we have to build new power plants to support them. Hell knows where the batteries are going sense they can't be recycled. But we can put wind tower that we pay millions for that have a rate of return that don't work. All just to buy votes ...And pay companies to pay them(congress).. You know these companies ..GE..wind towers..Acorn ... energy regulator with GE...This is what you call going green...? It's big business as usual and congress with so called change.
So Rixar13, are you ready to park your own gas-guzzler and get a bicycle?, turn off your lights, eat raw food, not refrigerate anything, etc. etc.?
I think not!
apparently, you only listen to one side, so naturally you wouldn't know how to oppose anything. When the democrats come up with something that is viable, sensible, and workable, maybe the republicans will say yes. The democrats say they will create all this tecnology and will exort it to other countries. More likely, we will get it by importing from countries without labor unions.
Hey Rixar 13,
You can call us the party of no all you want, but it's been the the Dems and tree huggers that have stopped us from drilling for oil for how long now? If we're the party of no then why do we want to drill for oil, use wind, solar and nuclear power? Please don't give me that stupid, it would take years to drill and get the oil ready for use. If we would have drilled years ago we would be off foreign oil by now.
I am not a republican but I don't understand how you can say they don't want to help the Country. They want to build nuclear powerplants, drill for US oil, use Coal, and natural gas among other things. Won't all of those create jobs, without the need for government subsidies (which ethanol, wind power, and solar power all do)? So unless you mean they don't want to help push for Socialism and your global warming incentive I think you are wrong.
#3 - Thu Jul 2, 2009 5:08 PM EDTTom
They want to build nuclear powerplants, drill for US oil, use Coal, and natural gas among other things.
Yeah right, Drill baby drill. Perhaps you shouldn't be so short sighted, there is only so much oil on the earth and it's in the middle east. I'm tired of sending all our money there.
Rixart13 -
The adminstration will have no problem leasing our oil fields to China. Hybrid vehicles are not the final solution it will require a major break through in battery technology. I don't see hybrids as even a stop gap. Hydrogen fuel cells show much more promise and even that technology posses major technical obstacles.
It is time that the voters stopped with knee jerk reactions to very silver tongued politician and environmentalist fanatic to evaluate what is being proposed verses what can be done with in the limits of science. Should we stop looking for alternative energy solutions? Look at the results of energy policy to date.
Ethanol use has actually hurt our economy the price of ethanol sources has soared to the point where farmers cant feed live stock. On top of that 10% ethanol make you engine about 10% less efficient so the net savings is less than 1%. What is the point?
My guess is you are one of the people that say gay marriage is OK and anybody that thinks it is between a man and women is ignorant and intolerant, yet when somebody says marriage should just be a legal contract between parties be it with a Man and Man or three men and two women, well NOW that is just no CRAZY talk!
#4 - Thu Jul 2, 2009 5:18 PM EDTTom
yet when somebody says marriage should just be a legal contract between parties be it with a Man and Man or three men and two women, well NOW that is just no CRAZY talk!
I don't judge people and try to dictate what other people must do. I couldn't care less if you married a monkey and make it legal. I say it's not right to discriminate as all people should be treated equally e.g. two men or two monkeys, they should have rights to have benefits i.e. health insurance.
#5 - Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:36 PM EDTEvery American has the right and ability to have health insurance right now! Call Blue Cross or Blue Shield and they will be happy to provide you with the coverage of your choice so long as you are willing to pay the appropriate premiums.
What you want is FREE health insurance. Unfortunately there is no such thing. Someone has to pay those premiums...
We are paying for it now. The uninsured get free health care paid for by us. To care for the uninsured costs us more than if we just paid for them to have insurance. The uninsured go to the emergency room when they absolutely have to. This costs us more than if they went to the Dr. at the first signs of sickness.
What you want is FREE health insurance. Unfortunately there is no such thing. Someone has to pay those premiums...
I have health insurance but millions don't. Nobody ever gave nor did I ask or get anything free in life.
The uninsured go to the emergency room when they absolutely have to. This costs us more than if they went to the Dr. at the first signs of sickness.
Exactly as I was saying, the system is dysfunctional.
two men or two monkeys,they should have rights to have benefits i.e. health insurance.
When did monkeys get included in the health care? You are so full of it.You must of got your Obama check..
Hey, Frank, tell me how I can exercise my right to purchase health care when I don't have a job? Tell me how I can get health care when it costs, on average, about $5,000 for an individual and I make minimum wage? Tell me why my car insurance costs only $600 a year (4% of my net income) and health insurance costs $5000 a year (25% of my income). Tell me why the last time I had to go to an emergency room it cost me $300 for a 30-second exam?
Not everyone is like you, Frank.
And again, what the $&$%^@ does this have to do with green jobs?????
Debi, if you're in Indiana, contact Hoosier Healthwise for free health care. The answer to most of your questions above should have been answered when you visited the emergency room: Illegal immigration getting FREE health care/assistance via the emergency room. The system is broken, that's for sure, but a federal health care system is not the answer. Just think how rotten it is to deal with an insurance company on the the treatment you're doctor advises. Really want the government involved as to whether you can have that hysterectomy or not? I think the problem is, people don't just want health care, they want free health care. Remember the old adage: "If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is." Oh, and I'll believe in Global warming when I see peace in the Middle-East; not gonna happen. And, really, if it did take a billion years for the earth to increase it's temperature a half a degree, who really cares?
Well lets see, the Dems and Obama want our country to go green. I guess nobody realizes Ca. went green 3 yrs ago under the Democratic controlled State Assembly. I guess 11.5 percent unemployment and 26 billion dollars in debt is the model Obama was referring to a couple of days ago in a interview. Jobs moved out of the state or out of the country. Things are so bad in Ca. that the illegals are going back home. Yeah, going green will definately be the answer to solve all of Americas problems. Common sense doesnt exsist in government, greed and power do. Why would anybody in their right mind spend millions of dollars to win and election for a position that pays peanuts. Just look at the Speaker of the House, Ca's own Ms. Nancey Pelosei. She is married to a millionare, let her go green. Green beer and a green enviorment will still leave a bad taste in your mouth no matter how much you gargle.
Cudos to you Tom, I agree with you 100 percent also.
#6 - Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:40 PM EDTG. Torres
Things are so bad in Ca. that the illegals are going back home.
Whoa, hope they take the whole family with them...?
Global warming is a fiasco and more news comes out everyday it is so. Recently an EPA document was not published by the government because it countermands global warming. Green is very expensive, all those solar panels, windmills, etc., that are not predictable energy and don't work much of the time. CO2 is not a pollutant and it cannot be regulated and the whole thing is a big money making scam for Al Gore, democrats and some republicans and would you believe Wall Street. This is the only thing giving it any credence.
#7 - Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:40 PM EDTDebbie in Dallas is on the cool aid. "Yes, because this is where we have to go if we want a habitable planet. Start now, make it easier later."
The ice caps on Mars are melting and since the industrial revolution every single day more carbon dioxide is released into the air than the day before and some how every single day isn't warmer than the day before, anybody care to explain that?
#8 - Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:46 PM EDTTom
It takes a long time to poison something as big as a whole planet, mo. Takes an even longer time to warm it up significantly. The industrial revolution was only a couple centuries ago. Compare that to the billions of years the earth has existed and maybe, just maybe, the explanation will make sense to you. Who knows, though, maybe the Martians did that to Mars. Maybe that's why their ice caps are melting.
-
You didn't answer my question. Are you saying this is global warming now, or that there might be? Is the earth really warmer than it has been and if "yes" when 1 year, 10 years, 100 years, 500 years, 1000 years, 10,000 years, a million years? What caused ice ages and warming in the past? his are all questions nobody can see to answer, they just tell me to believe what they are saying is true. We have more polar bears now than at any time in our history, yet people tell me they are dying, what does that mean?
Rixar13
I guess you havent heard about the North Slope in Alaska and one of the largest untouched oilfields in the world located in North Dakota, yes I said N.D. One thing they say about Chicago politics, "GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT."
#9 - Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:53 PM EDTThe ONLY thing that will help this economy and this Country is to get Obama OUT of office. He's taking over this Country and trying to become a dictator.
#10 - Thu Jul 2, 2009 10:36 PM EDTTo: Rosy Red Rectum - Only monkeys have rosy red rectums - and you are proof!
Yes you are.
If Congress stood by and did absolutely nothing the economy would come back anyway. American business is driven and resourceful and nothing will keep it down for too long.
If Congress really wanted to help the economy, they would simply subsidize the cost of oil so that Americans don't have to pay more than $1.50/gall. American citizens and businesses will take care of the rest.
The oil subsidies would cost a tiny fraction of the foolish bailout plan and have a far more dramatic effect.
#11 - Fri Jul 3, 2009 12:08 PM EDTi agre with you we americans can get out of this ourselves if we are just given the oppurtunity.
Yes if they would just stop interfering, and cut corporate taxes! folks who have lost they're jobs would only have to go without food and shelter for 8 months tops (until winter)! And seniors that lost they're retirement? Tough sht!
/sarcasm/
We became a Global Power By Inventing and Manufacturing New Product.
To regain any position in the Global Markets - we must make something to sell=
Green Products are the New Products that do not use or damage The Earth, That, my friends, is the Capitalistic Free-Economy that will get us back on track.
Any nut-case who tells you that Oil is an answer, is just that, a real live nut-case. (Coal too)
Our Highways, Tunnels, Bridges are falling apart = jobs rebuilding = wise investment
#13 - Mon Jul 6, 2009 10:33 AM EDTAny nut-case who tells you that Oil is an answer, is just that, a real live nut-case. (Coal
The answer is the cheapest is the cheapest solution that doesn't bankrupt the country. And that right now is oil, natural gas, and coal. I don't think anybody thinks this are the long term solution, but we can't have the government force us to use expensive non efficient solutions (ie. Wind, solar and Corn) (umm that my friends is socialism at best and communism at worst)
Since you seem to think money is no problem in going green maybe you could help others pay there energy bills at cap and tax is passeds. You think the ecomony is bad now, just wait and see, but hey we who pay taxes will have very expensive (free) health.
if spain is any indication , they have for years been embarked on a "green course" and they found that it takes something like 8 million dollars of government (read taxpayers) money to create one "green" job. there is no report on how many regular jobs have been eliminated in the process. their economy is worse now than their compatriots in the rest of europe. the "green" agenda is a fraud!!!
#14 - Mon Jul 6, 2009 8:53 PM EDTAn estimated $85 billion in federal stimulus funds earmarked for clean energy and transportation projects....a growing number of states, cities and companies are jockeying to expand their share of America’s clean energy economy, and they see the stimulus monies as pivotal to that goal
Hmmm, I wonder what will happen to these companies and their employees once the stimulus money and federal subsidies run out?
#15 - Wed Jul 8, 2009 8:04 AM EDTThe moral of the above story is that if it were not for Federal Government money (read taxpayer dollars) these green projects would not be worth doing and nobody would be interested or willing to invest in them. They are only worth it to investors for the subsidy money the government is handing out. How this will improve our economy is only a fantasy in the minds of the liberal socialists who are currently in charge in Washington. The jobs that will be created are nothing more than welfare for the people who have lost their jobs due to misguided government taxation and regulation that have caused businesses to close and their jobs sent elsewhere. The jobs that are created will only last as long as the government feels it can tax and print the money necessary to subsidize them. Something that is not economically viable wil not be made economically viable because of federal subsidy.
#16 - Wed Jul 8, 2009 8:57 AM EDTGreener is a fallacy. We have all the green energy we can get - it's called sunlight. If one spends a dime to get more, what are you buying? If it's green it would be free. Solar colectors, wind farms.... all cost, what are you buying? You are buying energy that came from fossil, hydro, nuclear.... So until a "green" system has converted more energy than it cost to make itself it isn't "green", and by then it's near its end of service life. The pay back is so poor it's almost a complete loss. Nuclear as the best example of the opposite, pays back so quickly compared to it's lifetime it's truely the greenest.
#17 - Wed Jul 8, 2009 9:25 AM EDTRight on Joe the Plumber! We need all forms of energy, coal, oil, gas, wind, solar, hydro, and nuclear. Instead of the government taxing dependable and cheap forms of energy out of existence how about giving incentives to produce cleaner power plants. This whole idea of replacing our power with wind and solar is nonsense. Do any of you know how many wind mills and solar panels it would take to power America? I do not want our amber waves of grain replaced with whooshing towers of steel.
Production of these new energy components will be outsourced to another country because manufacturing them in the United States will become cost prohibitive. Every time there is a successful business/manufacturer the Government will eventually find a way to tax it to death and force the business to move to another country.
What Government needs to do is stop the tax punishment and encourage FREE enterprise. If we keep this up America will soon become California, broke and out of business.
#18 - Wed Jul 8, 2009 9:38 AM EDTAs a practicing engineer, the energy requirements we will need now and going forward can not be supplied by "green energy". There is not enough "green energy" and it so diffuse and unsteady, it can not supply our needs. To get to "green energy", how will we build the machines and infra-structure to support them? We need cheap and plentiful fossil fuel energy now to do this job. IT AIN"T GOING TO HAPPEN BY MAGIC OR CHEAPLY>
#19 - Wed Jul 8, 2009 10:26 AM EDTGreen jobs, what an absolute joke. If the results of this poll don't scream what America thinks about this so-called job creator I don't know what will. Global warming due to man is a complete and total sham. You people that refuse to accept this fact are worse than those that continue to push it down everyone throats. To bring back jobs to this country you have to paint the picture that the US wants business and industry to be here. All worldwide industry looks at the US as the last place they want to set up shop. Yes a few automobile co's have a few assembly plants here, big deal. The fact is we've been hemorrhaging business/industry/jobs way faster than any coming here. Save the blame the greedy CEO BS, that holds no water for me. Either we want business/industry to be here or not. Judging by Obama's all out war on anything successful in this country I would say we don't. Cap and tax will destroy what little manufacturing is left in this country. If you think build a bunch of windmills is going to put this country back on track you're dreaming. Save the it's-Bush's-fault BS, it's Obama's show now and judging by the polls seems as though he's losing support faster than Bush. Solution? Obama should begin by apologizing to those who deserve it, every company that's been pushed out of the US due to the incredibly unreasonable environmental, financial and political barriers put in place by all previous adminstrations. That would be a great place to start...
#20 - Wed Jul 8, 2009 10:30 AM EDTYou're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
Half of the new wind turbines put up last year were in this country. Lots of new jobs making turbines & solar collectors.