Do you really think there are no problems attached? What about the payments they will need to make over the next five to six years. I think there is a reason most of these people were driving "clunkers". It was because they couldn't afford the payments. I don't think the $4,500 makes that much of an impact. It will probably be just like the mortgage mess that we are still digging out of, once the dealers start repossessing the cars. And then the individuals will not even have "clunkers" to drive. End of story.

jim, here here. end of story.

Right on Jim. People like Rixar only see one side of the cash for clunkers event. They don't see the domino effect it has on the people purchasing the new cars with insurance, stretched out auto payments they must now contract to, and the maintenance of these vehicles (new cars have higher costs like registration, parts, service, etc.). Besides this, I hear that some dealers like Ford are tricking people into thinking that they are getting a good deal from their trade in my marking up the MSRP's on certain vehicles. My father in law went into a dealership yesterday to buy a Ford Ranger that had a CarsDirect.com price of around $13500. When he went to the dealer, they had the MSRP of the same truck @ $18000. That's not including the registration, title, taxes, and dealer fees. Luckily my father in law knew better than to pay this rediculous amount. The salesman even said that he didn't qualify for the cash for clunkers because he argued about the price. So these dealerships are actually ripping off unsuspecting customers. They are acting like the banks and loan officers that gave all these homeowners bad loans. People must read the contracts and educate themselves before they get into debt over this cash for clunkers deal. It's a scam folks produced by the wonderful Obama administration and the Auto Companies.

Boy I would love to see a guy like you on a car lot I owned. First used car new car the sales people are the same people. Crook or not .

The whole enviroment thing is how this started and somehow it became this great selling point for new cars. Why, because the big three hijacked it, now who is the crook.

More expensive because only new parts will be available, more people making payments on cars they can't afford, and fewer options for people buying used cars

It will be good for the REPO man in about 6 months or less,when will the jobs that have gone over seas be coming back,that's the stimulus we need,we can't all be repairmen for imported products that are nothing but throw aways.

People aren't seeing the big picture here. If you trade in a car that gets 12 mpg for a car that gets 28 mpg over a 150,000 mile life span of the car a family will save $21,000. Not to mention the environmental benefits and the reduction of dependence on foreign oil. So basically they are getting a free car in the life of owning that car. Not to mention that these cars will probably go over 150,000 miles. These numbers are with the gas price of $3.00 a gal. Lord knows it will be higher than that before to long.

So Rixar13, you are comfortable with the Federal Government picking economic winners and losers?

I have friends trading in cars this week. I just talked to one of them. He will be able to save as much in gas as half the payment he'll make on the new car. That's no joke.

I know for sure I'd trade in my 17 year old sentra if it qualified. Sadly I always had decent mileage.

So Rixar13, you are comfortable with the Federal Government picking economic winners and losers?

They always have, so yes.

Your post has flawed logic.... That family, should have invested in a good solid vehicle, like a box style 87-01 Jeep XJ Cherokee with a 4.0L engine that runs for $400,000 miles. Just the interest that they paid on the new car loan on any good car that is going to last amounts to way more than it ever would have cost to buy any vehicle worth driving that long. Plus those Jeeps get 20MPG (that right, a 4000lb suv built in 1992 got 20mpg) if maintained right. So I'll save your family $16,000 of that $21,000, plus I'll save them the $20,000 they are going to spend on the new vehicle, plus I'll save them the $6,000 in interest they are going to pay on a 60 month loan, plus I'll save them $5,000 in repair costs because it costs nearly nothing to keep a Jeep 4.0 on the road, plus if we would quit this crushing the cars from the clunkers thing, I'd save them thousands more on insurance or on used repair parts since we would not be crushing the vehicles rather upcycling thier parts to keep other good Jeep Cherokees on the road. As for your reduction on foreign oil or energy.... who in the hell do you think is buying all of the steel scrap.... CHINA and the countries in ASIA. When we need to buy it back from them in the form of rotten useless Nissan Trucks (like the mid 90's hardbodys that broke in half in 5 years) we will be paying 25 times what we sold the scrap to them for, for just the metal it self. This program should have been a standard program incentive that let any one individual trade in a vehicle that would be dealt with in what ever normal fashon the system provided and then gave the consumer a $4500 check 90 days after buying the vehicle as a rebate. This would have forced the consumer to qualify for all conventional froms of financing that we now have after the bank crisis and given them a reward for being able to afford supporting the economy. Istead what we have done is attract every $5000 driving no pot to piss in credit criminal to the car dealer to buy a new car and take on thousands of dollars in debt. For every single one of these cash for clunkers deals that gets repoed they should force one government official or bank official who approved this crap this way to surrender thier caddilac for that person to drive.

Some other instances of gov't picking winners and losers.

No bid Iraq contracts. Cincinnati airport that has Delta and only Delta as a hub (a situation in which Delta threatens to pull the hub and thousands of jobs if any low cost airline flies into Cincy). Effect? Tickets out of Cincy are higher than anywhere else in the country. 100% of the factories are built in cities/townships/counties where gov’t leaders offer tax incentives. The DoD backed out of a deal for a tanker because AirBus (and not Boeing) won the bid to build it. Neither you nor your employer pay taxes on your health care benefits (artificially benefitting those companies that offer health care coverage). Corn and beef are federally subsidized, benefitting those companies that sell corn and beef. Especially benefitting those companies that sell corn fed beef.

Do you need me to go on?

I've owned my fair share of Jeeps and they were the biggest money pits I've ever owned. I will also tell you that they don't even come close to getting 20 mpg. If you live in the midwest where there are no hills then maybe. Jeeps are good for fun but not much else. Although that is just my experience with them, and my fathers, and my friend, and my cousin. But hey, thats only a few people. Oh yeah, my high school teacher would also agree.

schwannomin, glad you are confortable with Goverment picking winners and losers, but I am not. Because when Government picks the winners, corruption runs unchecked.

Why do you think there are so many who want Gov out of everyones business. Regulation is fine in moderation and enforced but subsidies, tax or direct payments, warp the system.

The only reason that you Jeep was a money pit is one of the following. Either you have no clue how to maintain a vehicle, greasing ball joints, replacing universal joints, keeping fluid full, etc. or you bought one of the awful models that they made like the grand cherokee with a V8 in it, or some of this new junk they are making. 4.0 Liter Jeeps, especially Jeep XJ Cherokee's were excellent vehicles. I drive very hard, and nothing big every went wrong with mine that was not to be expected... I'd rather spend $500 to fix a Jeep Cherokee than spend $250 on 2 payments on a Kia

schwannomin, glad you are confortable with Goverment picking winners and losers, but I am not. Because when Government picks the winners, corruption runs unchecked.

Do you need more instances? How many drugs do you suppose would be developed if gov't didn't directly pay for basic research at the University level? How many people would die if gov't didn't force ERs to accept patients without proof of insurance? How many 3-5 year olds would go without two meals a day without Head Start?

If you'd like to see some examples of unchecked corruption, take a gander at what was happening at Lehman Bros, Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan Chase, AIG, Bernie Madoff, Enron, Tyco, Worldcom.................... the list is exhaustive.....er....exhausting.

Why do you think there are so many who want Gov out of everyones business. Regulation is fine in moderation and enforced but subsidies, tax or direct payments, warp the system.

There are so many who want gov't out of everyone's business because there are millions of people who don't realize how much they already depend on the gov't for everything from the highway they drive down to a $3 Big Mac to a cruise missile that flies up some guy's rear end they've never met. Of course subsidies warp the system! The system, left unchecked, looks a lot like the boom/bust cycle of the 1800's leading right up to the Great Depression. We want that system warped because that unwarped system left an awful lot of people unfed.

Please provide proof that Government directly pays for Drug research. Most drug research at the University level is conducted in conjuction with Drug companies not Governement.

As for unchecked corruption. You obviously are having trouble reading. I said regulation is necessary but without enforcement (that falls on the Government by the way) it is meaningless. It was corrupt Government that failed to adequately regulate the Investment Bankers.

"We want that system warped because that unwarped system left an awful lot of people unfed."

Your logic defies all rational thought.

I personally am waiting for the "Nice New House on the beach for your cheap and small rental apartment" program.

I'll be the first in line, but just to let everyone know, I expect you to also pay my real estate tax and utilities. Oh, and surely you'll want to pay a gardener so that my house will look nice as you drive by.

THANKS!

"I expect you to also pay my real estate tax and utilities. Oh, and surely you'll want to pay a gardener so that my house will look nice as you drive by."

That only seems fair. It would be so rude to give you that nice house without the means to keep it looking good. :)

What about the fact that these dealers aren't getting reimbursed from the government for participating in their Clunkers program? They are either stuck in red tape or dealing with people rejecting their applications. There is no money and yet people are praising it left and right. Talk to a car dealer and ask him/her why they are dropping out of the program if it is so wonderful???

They will let them go back. just like they did with their homes.

I have a clunker.

And, NO, I did not participate in this program, even though my clunker is 12 years old and it's time for a new car. I am going to buy a new car within the next 6 months or so, but with my own money.

I am taking accountability for my own finances! How weird is that?

Do you know why they changed it to 7500 miles?? Because to many vehicles like 4.0L Jeep Cherokee's were running till 300,000 miles or longer and the auto manufacturer wanted you to blow your car up faster. Any cast iron pushrod or aluminum OHV/OHC engine built today that runs on gasoline needs to have it's oil changed every 3000 miles if you want your engine to last for its entire life span. If you want premature engine failure, premanture emission components failure, and crappy gas mileage, then wait till 7500 miles. Remember it is the automanufacturer that is recommending that change interval to you. They are the same manufacturer who let thier dealers double the oil change price ten years ago to nearly $50 on some models. Imagine that, doing half the work less often, for double the price, and it makes the customer owned equipment fail faster, and get worse gas mileage to boot. TERRY 127464 how many miles have you put on any one vehicle in your life?? I've put nearly 400,000 miles on multiple Jeep 4.0 Liter engines.... and I change my oil every 3000 miles, I also have a waste oil burning heater in my garage where I pour my waste oil through a paper filter and then burn it at like 2000* instead of sending it to the auto parts store recycling program that does the very same thing with it (yes folks that right, recycling your motor oil usually means that they burn it to produce heat) False perceptions?? Keep chaning your oil in your Lexura luxury car every 7500 miles... and the problem with trusting mechanics, is that you probably deal with a repair shop that has some slickster in a shirt and tie punching numbers into a computer... I take my vehicles to a guy in greasy overall who's name is on the outside of the shop...

Dealerships make their money anyway on maintenance, not on sales, so I wish these dealerships would stop whining about getting reimbursed.

This is all fine if you can afford a new car, but what about people like myself that cannot afford to buy a new car? The car I am driving now, a 2004 Isuzu Rodeo, is in need of repair that I cannot afford and I am still making payments on it. I had wanted to buy a decent running used car, but I can't now because there aren't any available or I miss out. So, how am I supposed to get to work, which is 23 miles away, when the car I'm currently nursing so I can drive it, finally craps out? In my opinion, middle and low income families once again lose!

well, thats your first problem, buying an isuzu.

buy something that lasts long, and has a good history of not having many issues. i bought with this clunkers thing a couple weeks ago. traded in my 01 nissan frontier that was going to need thousands in repairs, but it was still a good truck, in for a 09 toyota tacoma. i would never buy a gm or ford or chrysler, those lose thousands of dollars the moment you drive them off the lot. when it comes to cars and trucks, paying a few thousand more is always going to be worth it in the long run.

I own a 2000 Ford Escort that I bought new back in December 2000. It has NEVER been in the shop. Not once. The only thing that's ever gone wrong with it outside of normal maintenance was a broken hose about 5 years ago. Total cost $100.

This car has just short of 100,000 miles on it. It runs great. I wanted to do the CARS thing, but guess what? My Escort gets such good gas mileage it didn't qualify. I'd have to buy a hybrid, which I'm not against, but I didn't want to spend that much money.

Last year when the price of gas went through the roof, some guy offered me $6000 for my car because it was costing him $200+ per week to fill the tank in his truck. No thanks. Come to think of it, I should have taken him up on it. I'd have used that money to buy a new one.

These cars are being recycled not wasted. Let's look at the future here.

Find a different dealer. They are not all like that. There are some good honest dealers that still have some integrity in the way that they do business.

You should report that dealer to the Better Business Bureau and your states Attorney Generals Office. It didn't sound like a new car to me and the dealer shouldn't get away with selling "lemons" - some states have laws to stop that.

Go to a different dealer.

I'm willing to bet that someone fell for the game and bought the car.

I wouldn't doubt it, Greg. Did you see the story where some "entrepreneur" was selling "flat screen TV's" for a mere hundred dollars? Problem was ~ they were oven doors but there were still enough suckers to make him over a thousand dollars before police shut him down. P.T. Barnum was not only correct, he was a prophet.

there are good dealers out there. you just need to do homework now a days on them too.

I'm sure there are some great dealers out there. I was recently shocked at a Ford dealer in which they actually allowed me, as a customer, to park my car, get out, and look around at a few cars before a salesperson approached me. And, weirdly enough, the salesperson was the Sales Manager. He handed me his card, told me to enjoy my review of their inventory, and that when I was ready to talk, just come inside and ask for him!

No one hounded me, no pressure, no nothing.

I will buy my next car from this particular dealership.

you just summed up the health care reform bill as well!

Actually it would be 60% of us are paying for the 1% who use this program. 40% of the population doesn't pay any federal tax.

Actually these people are getting ripped off if you think about it because the dealer is going to get some money off the customer by raising the MSRP a couple of grand and then the dealer turns around and still get the $4500 from the government. It's all a scam and people need to read the fine print and do some research (on the internet "www.Carsdirect.com" on the true cost of the vehicle they are looking at buying. They must also figure that their insurance rates are going to go up, maintenance, and registration fees will go up also. $$$$$

While that might the case for some, it's not for all. We had a clunker because we drive our vehicles until they die. We don't trade in every 2-4 yrs. We knew we probably would need to purchase a car (used late model) for my husband whose 2002 has 185,000 miles on it and he commutes 85 mis. per day. We were able to trade in the clunker we were letting our daughter drive (a 99 Bravada) and purchase a Prius. We'll save $1,500/yr in fuel costs and my husband gets a car that will last longer than the used car we would have purchased next year. Meanwhile, my daughter has a car (my husband's old car) that will last her (hopefully) through college. This will come with some short-term cash flow pains, but it's a good decision for the long term.

I want to help the environment too . This doesn't help it at all, it isn't pushing more fuel economy just new. They took money from renewable energy to pay for it. the second bailout of the program was almost completely from the funding for wind energy. The car they buy doesn't get a large increase in fuel economy. They destroy the old car even if it gets better mileage than 90% of the cars on the road, new or old.

Bev, my Rodeo usually gets 24 mpg highway, but because it is not running properly now and I have no choice to keep driving it because I can't afford to fix the problems it has developed and I can't afford a new car, what good is this program to me? Jeez, the damn Rodeo was $24,000 when it was purchased new in 2004 and won't be paid off for another year or so. Tell me, how does this program benefit me?