Should the Lockerbie bomber be released on compassionate grounds?
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Should the Lockerbie bomber be released on compassionate grounds?
Should the Lockerbie bomber be released on compassionate grounds?
VoteTotal Votes: 59450
So he has terminal cancer. Who cares? He caused "terminal death" to all those on the flight. Let him rot and die where he belongs.. jail.
I agree. There are prisoners who die in prison everyday of cancer, Aids, Tuberculosis, beatings, old age,etc., but you don't see those people getting out on a compassion horse, now do we?!
Totally agree - keep him prisoned up. Once released, he's not dead yet ! ! what would keep him from helping someone else do it again !
He is no more special than any other prisoner that dies in jail due to cancer and other illnesses. Compassion should be reserved for his victims. Justice undone!!!
What is insanity in an insane world called? Whatever it is that what this story is. He should NEVER be allowed to breathe free air. IMO he should have been executed.
If he had killed one of my loved ones I promise you he wouldn't be dying from cancer. Perhaps there's a silver lining here: Prison has been protective custody for this piece of dreck. 270 people have THOUSANDS of relatives. Perhaps a good number of them will now be able to pay this fine gentleman a visit in person and express their feelings in a very open and expressive manner. I sure hope one of them gets the chance to express some "compassionate relief" very very soon. I surely doubt they would step afoul of the law in expressing themselves, but if they do what jury in the world couldn't understand their need for 'compassionate release' on the skull of the slime that killed their child, mother, father, husband, wife, brother, sister, etc.
Hell no, prison is too good for him!! I say Let him out... and then give any surviving family members of the victims an M16 and the F*****s address and let them settle it.
I'm so tired of this compassion stuff. He didn't have any for those he MURDERED. He doesn't deserve to have any given to him.
Course it doesn't matter what most of us think. He'll be out by the end of the week. Hey Scotland, you going to watch him 24/7 so he doesn't teach anyone else how to do this.
Terminal Cancer. So what? I could think of another ailment that he could get that would cure him- high-speed lead poisoning...
This is why you need capital punishment. If he was executed years ago when he was convicted we wouldn't have this discussion right now. Just another idiotic left wing country. Way to go Scotland. Take your kilts and shove them up your a*s*s*e*s*.
Hey, he is just going to take himself out of the picture with a DuPont (or Semtex) suit in a crowded theater, bus station, or whatever. I just hope the judge or release panel or whatever the Scots use to determine this are in the place when he yells "ALLAHU AHKBAR", because THEY will have committed all those new murders with him, and they will deserve to share the fates of their victims. This is stupid,let the bastard rot.
Think of his family members. What he did was cruel and we all agree on that, but many british people believe he was inoccent and i am sure he family would want to see him one last time.Everyone deserves compassion. Besides, anyone can love their friends, it takes a great person to love their enemies.
Keep him locked up. I can see him get out and try another bombing to further his cause. I mean, hell, he has a "get out of jail free" card. Let him pay for his crime. CAncer is not the payment, the life sentence is.
I feel for his family members, for them I have compassion. Compassion should not be heaped on this sorry slimy bit of humanity. However, they can visit him in prison one last time. He should not be released, he should not get to breathe the air that those he killed have long since been denied. Based on your reasoning, there is absolutely no reason to have any laws that punish convicted murderers if the murderers don't have to suffer the sentences imposed, whether it be life in prison or death. And you are incorrect, everyone DOES NOT deserve compassion, except from his God, whomever that may be. His God will judge him in the end, not us. But since we are humankind, and we elect peers to create laws to punish offenders, we should allow that judgement to stand, otherwise we may as well be wandering nomads living under no moral law at all.
Let's just hope that the judge in this case can be removed from the bench... since the bomber has now been freed.
I fear that more terrorists will decide to kill because of this so called compassion. After all there really have been no consequences for this murderer...
He has been sheltered, fed and cared for by physitians... where's the punishment?
how does this deter terrorism?
This encourages more of the same kind of murder.
I hope I am wrong but I don't think so.
Prostate cancer is treatable and can have a good outcome--his victims certainly did not! Is this a case of the handing off the medical care to another country?
Boy do I agree. Did the people who made this "decision" to free him lose their families to this degenerate?
Loving your enemies does not mean "playing nice" and giving them what they want. It means that you have a love for them that recognizes them "as a mortal human being loved by an immortal God", and at the same time also recognizes that they have done something very wrong, (if indeed they have) and that there is a price to pay for your actions. There is nothing (that I know of) that says when you are in prison for a crime that you committed, that you deserve to be released if you get terminally ill.
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!! Those poor passengers and innocent people on the ground had NO CHANCE of survival. What comes around goes around - it's not even fair that he KNOWS he's going to die!
Goes to show that the British leadership will also sell their souls for some oil. The American leadership sold their souls for some oil in Iraq. Hmmm, I wonder why we are really in Afghanistan. All the while innocent young men and women are lied into dying for the wrong reasons. The fact is that the true leadership do not represent the majrity of the people they pretend to serve. Ah GREED, the true reality of mankind.
They say this criminal has less than three months to live. Let's see if they spoke the truth.
About loving your enemies------ "if one smites you on the left cheek, turn the other to him also". " You have heard it said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, but I say unto you love those who spitefully use you". "If you do not love your brother, whom you have seen, how can you love God, whom you have not seen".
I have the same loathing as you about the Lockerbie monster, but there comes a time to have compassion and , yes, even forgiveness. The poor families of those killed in that terrorist attack will be much better emotionally if they will realize that nothing will bring those loved ones back.
Actually, I think "the poor failies of those killed in that terrorist attack" realize by now (I'm sure they realized it at the time, don't you think?) that "nothing will bring those loved ones back." That is a ridiculous sentence. They've known that from the instant they were informed of that egregious act. There may be a time for compassion in some instances. but this isn't one of them. It was too cruel. If it had been your loved one you'd be outraged. If not, then you're not human. You should try to put yourself in their places. Apparently you aren't able to do that - where's your compassion?
I agree with the idea of compassionate release. I feel that if someone is terminally ill and only has days, weeks, or a couple months to live and has family/friends willing to care for them then they should be released to die. It takes the burden off the government for paying the medical and perhaps burial costs and shows compassion and forgiveness. This country was built on Christian principles and the Lord will judge the quilty and remorseless and they will pay for eternity.
Love my enemies my A S S. Let him rot in jail. As an aside, kinda off topic, the British sicialized medical system JUST DIAGNOSED him with advanced prostate cancer? Thank God that this time, socialized medicine screwed up the right way in delaying diagnosis.
Surely, the courts need review the meaning of compassion. If they completly understood the word, they wouldnt let a person that murdered hundreds free, now matter of act maybe they should look up empathy. (See below)
How many chapters within the Quran begin with the verse compassion, 114, with the exception of one.
This release is more of a political release then a compassionate release.
GOD bless the souls of those lost and their families. May GOD provide us understanding into something we have difficultly with.
Peace!
Compassion is a human emotion prompted by the pain of others.
Empathy is the capability to share and understand another's emotions and feelings. It is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes," Empathy does not necessarily imply compassion, sympathy, or empathic concern because this capacity can be present in context of compassionate or cruel behavior.
What compassion did he show the people on the plane. If he was able to walk on that plane he is capable of trying to take out more American's before he dies. Kadafi will use this to his advantage against America.
Pancreatic cancer is one of the slowest-moving cancers. He could 'linger' for another 5 or 10 years. This animal should have been executed years ago. As of Aug 12th, the Scottish gov't denied any rumors that this terrorist would be released. Now he's a free man: what happened?
I am willing to bet any of the over 200 he murdered would have loved to have 3 months more. What the hell was the judge who turned this animal loose thinking? Scotland...you need to remove this putz from his position. If you do not at least try, you are spitting on the graves of those who died.
PLEASE look at the Dark Elegy video on YouTube. I'll be boycotting anything related to Scotland for the rest of my life.
Those that died that day never got a chance to go back home! Rot in hell you scum bag!
Actually, the scottish government sent him home because they did not want to care for him anymore. But that does not excuse them for releasing him, he was a terrorist, committed a crime that 270 people died. For that his soul should rot in hell.
Here is an idea: Put him on a ground-controlled plane filled with jihadists and lots of pigs running around. Then, crash the plane into a Lybian neighborhood. GEE I'M GOOD ! BTW I am sorry for the pigs...
He can drop dead--They are always in a hurry to meet ALLAH anyway. FU*K HIM!!!
Sorry pal,
The Good Lord will make the determination on compassion for you or not. You murdered innocent people and you must pay for your crime here on earth and into the eternal if and how God sees fit.
Are you or were you EVER sorry for your heinous crime?!?
The VICTIMS deserve compassion, not the murderer...
I agree 100% however, I think he should meet the maker NOW!! Why continue to have the people pay for this scumbag to rot in prison. He should have been executed years ago.
if they let him out and it goes into remission for 3 years are they going to put him back in??
Ryan: Spoken like a typical American asswipe. Compassion is not weakness, but it is not always right, either. They're wrong, but that doesn't make them weak.
Compassion shown to terrorist shows weakness and terrorists love that and will kill more of us. Know your enemy it is important.
Why must Dave insult just because he does not agree???
Terrorists see compassion as weakness...you may not, Dave, but they certainly do.
Europe is weak.
Spoken like a typical American asswipe.
Let's not keep this up.
American asswipe....without American asswipe you brits and the rest of Europe would be spesking German...not that long ago...but you all seem to always forget!
Pete: NM (New Mexico) is an American state. I am an American citizen, red, white, blue, born and raised. We're just not all ... intolerant and ignorant (sorry, tyler - I'll tone it down). Some of us are just acutely aware of what jerks we ALL appear to be to the rest of the world. Ryan painted a vivid picture of exactly why that is.
bear fan: You and the terrorists are wrong.
Dave, Did you see what Libyans are saying? It is exoneration. They believe that this shows that he did nothing wrong, even if it is on compassionate grounds. They just don't see that killing anyone from the West as being wrong. If they consider us as jerks, what should we consider them as? At least we don't believe that all of them should be murdered. And I agree with others that say this shows terrorists how weak we are.
America is not the one releasing him. And what difference does it make that Libyans are saying it is exoneration. They are not one of the countries that we are currently at complete odds with.
Besides, if you had listened to more news you would know that Scotland has an oil stake with Libia and is doing this primarily in due consideration.
I don't want to be inhumane in our country and our country is getting uglier everyday and more hatred and intolerance is being touted everyday.
If he is not at death's door, then I agree with you. But if he is definitely a walking dead man, then I think the Scots are a more compassionate nation than those of you who would call us "a Christian nation"
OUR country is uglier every day??? Perhaps you've forgotten 9/11 or the Oklahoma City bombing. My guess is you didn't lose a single loved one in any of the horrific terroristic actions in this country. I think you need to find the definition of ugly. It's about time this country took a stand. We should make changes that positively affect our lives and stop terrorism no matter what it takes. You think we're ugly? I can't imagine what you think of terrorists! Hatred and intolerance is being IGNORED every day.
you go Andrea!!!!! - let's all remember 911 and every other act that has hurt this country - the television should be showing clips from 911 everyday to remind everyone why we are at war and why the criminals should be punished to the extreme !!!!!
This goes with my previous statements that I believe all terminally ill patients should be released before death. If there were an instance of remission or such, then a clause should be made saying a return to prision is justified.
Jim, Pete, bear fan, etc: I still say that compassion is not weakness. That has nothing to do with the fact that compassion is also sometimes not called for, as it is not in the case of this evil wackjob the Scots somehow saw fit to release. Are the two ideas really that irreconcilable to you? Let this piece of filth rot in jail. He deserves no compassion.
But that still does not mean that compassion is weakness.
Andrea, I live in Oklahoma and it was a home grown terrorist that bombed the Murrow Building.
Is that where our intolerance and hatred has taken us? Timothy McVey was an American and a terrorist.
We were terrorists invading Iraq and killed hundreds of thousand of innocent Iraqi Women and children.
Be rid of terrorism no matter what it takes? Looks like we need to start at home.
Dave, when he shows compassion to his victims I will grant him compassion- 185 gr. Semi-jacketed hollowpoint .45 caliber compassion, right between the eyes.
He is a killer and got caught. In his culture it is an eye for an eye so let him
die the way he deserves to die. He does not respect Christian morals and
does not deserve to be released into dignity. He should die in the prison
hospital, under 24 hour watch. He is a mass killer, not a low level criminal
that stole because he was poor.
He killed sooo many.
He doesn't respect human morals, either. This is not a religious issue.
As a muslim in jihad it was a religious issue for him when he brought down the plane. Having cancer will have some type of religious implications for him as well. Being released will have religious implications for him. Remaining in prison will have religious implications for him. It is NOT a religious issue for YOU.
Dave it is good tosee such a compassoniate person here in NM. maybe you will rake him in to live with you.
ftk: Who said I had any compassion for this piece of crap? Have you read anything I've written?
Reminder: Susan Atkins (Manson follower) also has terminal cancer and has been denied every time at her parole hearings. While she has been a model prisoner and turned to religion for salvation , her crime was deemed hanious enough to not be considered for parole even after 40 years! ( Murders committed back in 1969, while sentenced in 1971.) What are they thinking?!
At least the US has spoken out against this. Wow, something I agree with Hillary on, scary...
Nevitts: Susan, Pat and Leslie (all three of whom I had the rare opportunity to get to know at CIW where they are incarcerated) made a terrible mistake, under the influence of a madman and hallucinagenic drugs. They are and have been for many years, kind hearted, aging, generous souls who deserve to be considered for parole. The prison system is, after all, expected to release those who are rehabilitated. They wiped a few debauched rich couples off the face of the earth. This guy accounted for 270+ and has never shown a bit of remorse. Filthy monkey, I repeat what I said before: He should be thrown in the street and kicked to death by the families of those he slaughtered...a fitting end for a "good Muslim".
OMG! Because the people that Manson and his gang killed were rich and, in your opinion, debauched, and now they're old, you think they deserve more consideration and what, love, than a Muslim who killed over 270 people who hasn't reached pension age yet?
Stop being such a loser. Murder is murder is murder. There is NO rehabilitation for it. Life is prison should be life in prison. You want to rehablitate someone? Go find yourself a shoplifter, a bank robber, a car thief, but stay away from the murderers and the child diddlers. They stay in jail..... FOR LIFE!!!
I'll love them all right. RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES WITH A .45 CALIBER BULLET. An eye for an eye works for me.
They wiped a few debauched rich couples off the face of the earth.
And unborn children? Young, expectant mothers? Sharon Tate was a 26-year -old woman who was eight-and-one-half months pregnant. She was due to deliver her baby in just two weeks. When she begged for the life of her baby (asking for them to kidnap her and let her deliver her baby before they killed her) Atkins told her "Look, b****, I have no mercy for you. You are going to die and you'd better get used to it." Then she was stabbed sixteen times (5 of which would have been fatal on their own). Atkins then proceeded to write "Pig" on the front door of the house in Sharon Tate's blood. At the trial, even when details of Tate's last moments were being discussed, Atkins laughed and shouted insults. Where in this do you see a generous soul, Adela?
The inner liberal in Adela just "knows" that the supposed "Rehabilitation"is real. In my opinion, there are two different ways to look at this. We will use Atkins as an example.
1- The rehabilitation is false. She is faking remorse and compassion to get out. We fall for it, she goes out and yells "Helter Skelter" and we have more Manson murders. Bad call.
2- She is truly "cured" of the mental aberration that made her able to do such a horrendous act. She is totally rehabilitated. She looks in the mirror and gazes into the eyes of the woman who said "Look, b****, I have no mercy for you. You are going to die and you'd better get used to it." and then stabbed Sharon Tate 16 times. If she was truly cured of her disease, she will be able to realize the truly vile things she has done and want to atone for them. Her ONLY OPTION is suicide.
Since she hasn't killed herself, she is not rehabilitated. ROT IN JAIL, Since the state of California refused to execute your vicious A S S as it should have. I know the Manson broads are off topic, but it all ties in to the scum flying to Libya. He should never walk the streets again, for any reason. PERIOD!
The news article mentioned that he might be innocent. If he is innocent then he should never have been in jail and certainly should be let out now. If he is not innocent and had direct involvement in mass murder then the question is irrelevant.
There are no guilty men in jail. They all cry " I am innocent." They justify their evil just as this evil piece of work justifies his.
And that is just a lie or you are showing your ignorance. There are plenty of people in jail who are not guilty.
Britain is becoming an Islamic state - even the Archbishop of the Church acknowledges Islam. Now, compassion for a cold blooded murderer - compassion would be to arrange him to meet his perverted god, the sooner the better.
A church "recognizing" Islam makes the country an "Islamic state?" I was not aware that Great Britain was a theocracy to begin with.
Why does everyone keep trying to turn this into a religious issue? It's a criminal justice issue, and they got it wrong. Can we please just analyze it on that factual level?
Islam is the most successful cult in history. Following a 6th-7th century warlord on his dynastic conquests is a religion. Okay, fine. What has changed since then? I would ask the leaders and citizens of Islamic nations what they honestly want the most. Would the answer be an Islamic World? Now ask the evangelical Christians what they want most. Would it be a Christian world that leads to 'The Rapture'?
As long as I brought that up, investigate the historical source of 'The Rapture'.
John Nelson Darby, considered the father of dispensationalism, first proposed the pretribulation rapture in 1827.[7]. This view was accepted among many other Plymouth Brethren in England. Darby and other prominent Brethren were part of the Brethren Movement which impacted American Christianity, primarily through their writings. Influences included the Bible Conference Movement, starting in 1878 with the Niagara Bible Conference. These conferences, which were initially inclusive of historicist and futurist premillennialism, led to an increasing acceptance of futurist premillennial views and the pretribulation rapture especially among Presbyterian, Baptist and Congregational members.
The Catholic and Orthodox churches as well as the Reformed denominations have no tradition of a preliminary return of Christ and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers and find its biblical foundation weak.[9]. Some also reject it because they interpret prophetic scriptures in either an amillennial or postmillennial fashion.
This stuff is just from Wikipedia, but really, check out the footnotes and sources for yourself.
The point is, that between these two cults, Islam and Christian 'Fundamentalism', the whole world is suffering. Most especially, innocent people. Remember them? They're the people that Jesus was trying to help in the first place.
What does this have to do with the news story? What does this have to do with killing lots of people by bombing an airliner?
Nothing, and everything.
Dave, N.M.
What do you mean trying to turn this into a "religious issue" Don't you read? What name appears before "Terrorist" in nearly every incident since 1972? I believe the answer is "Islamic".
"Islam is the most successful cult in history"
There are more muslims than christians?
"Don't you read? What name appears before "Terrorist" in nearly every incident since 1972? I believe the answer is "Islamic"."
I guess you don't read...Ever hear about Ted Kaczynski, the KKK, Neo-Nazis, violent anti-choice advocates and the Aum cult.
Rick: The criminal's beliefs don't matter. What matters is his crime, and this one's was murder. Cold-blooded, purely intentional, malevolent craven murder. I don't give a pucker what he thinks he gets after death. What matters to me, and to the law, is what he did. So no, this is not a religious issue, any more than Tim McVeigh's case was. They are murderers, and they deserve the same treatment.
Rick, NM
TERRORISTS are the killers who MASQUERADE as Members of Islam!!! There is a very BIG difference between the two. When you say that TERRORISTS are Moslems then YOU "Rick, NM" ARE THE ONE WHO IS WRONG!!!!
On a different note: "love55"says it all - "it takes a great person/nation to love their enemies. I agree, love55, and more: We need to change our way of thinking of :an eye for an eye"!!! Cancer is aPUNISHING disease. Killing human beings is a CRIME!There is punishment in THIS WORLD. And then there is God! If we, motley crew that we are, as people decide to be "compassionate" in special cases, it is NOT on our head as being stupid! We chose to give compassion. We are to be complimented for that - it is NOT a gift to the prisoner as much as it is a gift to ourselves. Never leave God out of His justice for this man if he deserves it. I, for one, believe he is paying for his part if he is, indeed, guilty (and many believe that he is NOT GUILTY)! He will receive the Ultimate Justice in about 3 months when he succumbs to his TERMINAL DISEASE (which is NOT subject to REMISSION someone earlier suggested) It is a pity that it seems that a lot of the people writing here did NOT hear what Scotland had to say about how the decision was made to give compassion to this man. It would do everyone well to hear it from start to finish. It may be a stunning education to most!! Thank you
probably should not use wikapedia for your religious scholarship. Muhammad a warlord is quite a stretch. Some who do not subscribe to his faith would consider him a revolutionary(a person who brought suppressed people together by words and war). People tend not to consider people like Che,Adams or Robespierre as warlords but their actions directly related to the death of those who did not believe in their cause. They are heroes to most because their beliefs directly relate to many values western society's believe in today. Lets not judge the Islamic society just because all of their values do not match up with ours. The great majority of Muslims are appalled by acts of terrorism but fell betrayed by many Americans who lump them into these groups. Muslims have alot of respect for Christians and do not consider them a cult, we should offer them the same respect and maby their could be a little more peace in this world.
D Smith- I refuse to love my enemy. As a person who does follow biblical precepts, I prefer to believe that all do. Therefore, I do unto others as I would have them do unto me, and I believe all others are doing the same. So, when scumbag al-Meghrahi blows up a plane, he wants me to blow him up, and I'm willing to oblige him.
sclms-Have you read the Koran? I would guess the answer is no. It has a lot to say for itself, but there is much to detest, also. While an infidel is at your table, he is safe. BUT, if he leaves without accepting Allah, which you are supposed to try to convince him to do, you should kill him. The entire tenet of Islam is that the ENTIRE world MUST SUBMIT TO ALLAH, and be ruled by Shaaria law. The inconvenient fact that many people do not wish to worship Allah has no bearingupon them, as it had no bearing to the Crusaders that Muslims did not want to worship Christ. The primary difference being that the CRUSADERS ARE NO LONGER CRUSADING, while Muslims are. The only Guaranteed way to heaven is through Jihad, or holy war. They kill you, they go to heaven. Yes there are many things wrong with the Christian cult, and there are nutjobs who believe that we must kill for Christ ( a thought that would appal Jesus, a gentle teacher). But nowhere in the New Testament does it say that we "Must spread Christianity to the entire world by means of the sword" as the Koran does regarding Islam. If you read the Koran, you will see the truth, and realize one simple fact: there can be no moderate Muslims. If they proclaim to be devout, THEY MUST SUPPORT JIHAD. If they do not support Jihad, they must, by their own faith, be apostate (denying the truth of Islam while knowing better) and subject to the death penalty. Since I HAVE READ THE KORAN, and I choose to remain non-Muslim, and to allow my children the same freedom, I must, respectfully, decline to allow them the opportunity to forcefully convert me. By the way, ALL ORGANIZED OR FRINGE RELIGIOUS GROUPS ARE, BY DEFINITION, CULTS. I say this as a semi follower of one of the most successful cults, the Christian faith/cult.
Neale: The Crusaders aren't employing the same methods, but you do yourself and everyone else a disservice when you imply that Christianity is any less bent on world domination than is Islam. The Crusaders are now operating, and wielding military force, politically, instead of directly. Otherwise, there is little if any difference from their former selves, including their disdain for the lives of non- or other-believers.
Did you read the post? I call Crusaders evil, but your contention that they are still owning the military is BS. Both cults may be bent on world domination, but the difference, as I said, is that Christians, THESE DAYS, are far less prone to the "KILLEM OR CONVERTEM" philosophy than the Muslims. I FOLLOW some precepts, but I am not a diehard Christian. I feel that Christ was a philsopher with some good ideas. Then, a bunch of fanatics took those ideas and ran them over a cliff. That is what I mean by "semi-follower".Personally, I feel that in the long run, Christ and Mohammad are the two individuals responsible for more death, doom, and despair than anyone else in history. If both of their teachings were to dissappear tomorrow, the world would be a better place. the primary difference, as I tried to express, is that Islam REQUIRES killem or convertem, While christianity merely practices it at times.
In this case, compassion should only be given to those who lost their lives. This guy is the scuzz of the earth and should die on his straw mattress!
We have laws for people who commit crimes , I believeas laws are set into place we must carry them out. Also, think about this ...........if Charles Manson gets terminal Cancer........are we suppose to let him go and others like him ? or are we looking at age and the cancer?Please people , If you do the CRIME you do the TIME remember that Saying............Also where was his compassion when he made the choice to commit to the crime.
Yea, he has terminal cancer so now he won't worry about it and plan to just take more people with him when he goes. He should stay in jail so the world will be safer. He can just die alone.
Why wasn't this guy hung years ago? Too many bleeding hearts?
The morally broken left, in their foolish understanding of compassion, by showing it to the guilty/cruel, only unleash cruely to the innocent.
The world is a far worse place because of this very, very cruel action.
The what? Bite your tongue. I'm a liberal and I think this creep should hang by his fingernails until dead. What compassion did he show anyone of the innocent people on the plane or their families and friends? None. He's a dirty pig.
As a liberal, I find this statement repugnant. Conservatives do not have the higher moral ground on anything.
This guy should definitely serve out his sentence.
Austin (and Dave, I guess):
I believe in the dignity of an individual having liberty and control over their own lives. To that extent I believe conservative DO have a moral high ground. What has liberalism and statism brought to America? Government dependency and loss of liberty. The Native Americans a (sadlly) a perfect example of what happens when we travel down the road of government dependency.... and their story is a national stain that may never be erased.
Now in this case the Brits want to me "nice". That will only backfire on them should they pursue that policy. Unfortunately we seem to be traveling down the same road.
bear fan,
Your understanding of Native history is sorely lacking. Native peoples were forced into reservation lives, at least the few of them that remained after genocide. We did not travel that road willingly and many fought to the death to avoid such a fate. To use us as a "perfect example" of dependency is misapplied at best.
Once on reservations, Native folks were denied citizenship and unilaterally made "wards" of the government. The few nations that fought this were summarily hunted into oblivion. More recently, those nations that have found their feet and are truly independent are now being fought against in courts, to deny sovereignty that is guaranteed by treaty. We are also fighting the takeover of now valuable lands that the government would like to exploit, for mining and other industries. We are winning these fights. That is hardly dependency.
What has liberalism and statism brought to America?
Liberalism? Seriously? And you speak of liberty? The words are from the same root. Liberalism is entirely about freedom (a/k/a liberty). Conservatives have the brass to tout "liberty," but the only freedom you ever seem to advocate is shooting people. That and not paying your share of taxes, I guess. Where is the freedom of gays to marry? The freedom from religion in government? The freedom to grow whatever plants we want? The freedom from dependence on foreign oil? The freedom from egregious banking practices? The founders were liberals. Liberalism IS America. On an ENTIRELY separate subject, the prototypical liberal was Jesus.
What has conservatism brought to America? Ignorance (a/k/a NCLB), hatred, a listless drift toward theocracy. War. The economic chaos of markets left too free, at the expense of our own economic health (and the concomitant freedom to do as we please with our money. No money = no freedom).
Of course, all this is wildly off-topic. The point is that the Lockerbie bomber is not entitled to liberty, and you'll be hard-pressed to find a single American liberal who will say otherwise.
Wikipedia has the best definition.
"Liberalism is a broad class of political philosophies that considers individual liberty and equality to be the most important political goals."
No where did I find a definition where "Liberal thinking" said anything about letting murderer's and killers out of prison. I personally am not a liberal. The Liberal parties do have their share of (for lack of shorter description) "Bleeding hearts". So do the conservatives, just not as many.
So- If we are trying to send a message to Scotland and its government, lets keep it on a personal opinion basis.
I don't think we should let him out, it will accomplish 2 things.
#1. He WILL be a hero, and will serve to stir up anti-americanism. (we seriously don't need any more of the attitude in the world)
#2. It will prove that we are rather a bunch of (tylers comment) and are weak.
They already think of us that way. Check out english.aljazeera.net,
"I don't think we should let him out, it will accomplish 2 things."
Correction.
I don't think they (Scotish Courts) should let him out...
I'm a liberal and I have a Silver Star and two canes to walk with. What have you got!?
Gotta love the nut jobs that try to turn everything into liberal bashing. You going to blame Obama next? I guess I'm a liberal and I think he should rot in jail.
When the left is faced with the consequences of their beliefs and their actions - in this case "liberal compassion" - of course they don't want to accept it!
But this is the result of liberal left actions. They cannot have it both ways!!
The people setting this murderer free are not on the right but of the left. And the result is not "compassion" but the exact opposite - terrible cruelty to the truly innocent.
These actions are outrageous and nothing but wrong, actions only a member of the left could come up with. It is only the left defending this, only the left. Liberalism causing cruelty, once again.
Ric: Thank you for your willingness to accept responsibility for every action ever taken by a conservative. Nixon is a good start. Watergate was "the result of conservative right actions." By your reasoning, you clearly "want to accept" that all conservatives are cheats and thieves (OK by me...). Care to try and argue against accepting responsibility for any other "conservative right actions?" The purest form of right-wing conservatism is fascism. Since you don't acknowledge any gradations of political thought, you must be proud to be a Nazi.
After, all you cannot have it both ways.
Watergate was never "accepted" by conservatives; that is bogus. The facists were a socialist party not a conservative movement. Your understanding of historical facts are very lacking.
You are entitled to reject liberalism when it goes too far. And well you should. Plus learn from them. To deny sympathy for criminals is a liberal tenant however is bogus. Here is another example of liberal sympathy for the guilty ideology going too far. Smell the roses; they are the product of liberal thinking. And should rightly be rejected by all.
Well, Ric, it looks as though this idiotic freeing of a mass murderer is not "accepted" by liberals, either (unless you contend that the 93%+ on this board are all conservatives), so what's your point?
Socialism is an economic theory; conservatism, as embodied by the neocons and Nazis, is a social movement. It is not my understanding that "are" lacking.
But your argument is pointless. What is your criticism of liberalism, when all the liberals here seem to disagree that this lunatic should have been freed? Doesn't that just leave you having to admit that you and the liberals agree? In other words, if no liberals believe in what you are criticizing, how is yours a criticism of liberals? The Scots got it wrong. Big deal. Live with the fact that you and the liberals are on the same side on this one. Don't worry - I'm sure it won't happen again.
The Nazi party was short for The National Socialist German Workers' Party. Calling nazism "conservative" is bogus. Socialism is far more than just economic theory, when the state is controlling more and more of people's lives.
The argument is not pointless but understood perfectly.
The man deserved the death penalty, what far more on the left than on the right would oppose. But the concept of sympathy for those who do evil is not a conservative value; it is rather far more condoned and practiced by the left. This act is the fruit of such liberal ideology.
I acknowledge most liberals and leftists are not so far gone as to condone this murderer's release. The point is enough did and that has resulted in cruelty and tremendous suffering. That is fact.
Ric, names mean nothing. Does "compassionate conservatism" ring a bell? Fact is, Hitler drove the leftists out of the party very early on; he just kept the name. None of this is remotely relevant, of course, where we're discussing the ridiculous notion that "liberals" should answer for the release of this murderer. The people who let him out should answer for it; those who agree should defend their position, and those who disagree should state theirs. Where all these various people stand on other, unrelated issues, is a red herring, which you raise to score a quick political point. I'm not buying it. Yours was a comparatively artless troll; you're just sore that I called you on it.
Gonna get some more work done now. Been a pleasure.
If none of the discussion of Nazis was relevant then you should not have raised it. If names mean nothing then you should practice not calling people names.
You stated: <the only freedom you ever seem to advocate is shooting people.>
That alone disqualifies you from a dignified discussion. If this is the best you learned from the overpaid "higher education" received then a refund is clearly due.
<Where is the freedom of gays to marry?>
Same-sex is not the same as male-female. We are not obligated to redefine marriage as the same - when it is not - to anyone who whines for it.
<The freedom to grow whatever plants we want?>
Living one's life getting doped up all the time does not make the world better. Self-gratification priorities only subtract from the obligation to the society. The rest of us don't teach our children to get stoned all the time so have no purpose advocating legalization laws.
<The freedom from dependence on foreign oil?>
It is the left, not the right, who oppose capturing our own resources. Windmills and solar won't run cars or planes. We on the right don't live in fear of evaporating/dying from "global warming".
<The freedom from religion in government?>
The right wants our freedom to practice religion protected. It is the left, not the right, who holds far more antipathy towards Christians, Israel, and religion.
<The founders were liberals. Liberalism IS America. On an ENTIRELY separate subject, the prototypical liberal was Jesus.>
Jesus talked about marriage between one man and one woman, talked against all sex outside wedlock, and defended the death penalty. All conservative values.
If none of the discussion of Nazis was relevant then you should not have raised it.
You began by generalizing; I merely showed the logical extension of your generalization.
If this is the best you learned from the overpaid "higher education" received then a refund is clearly due.
Care to share with these nice people the cost of any education I might have received? Or are you just making assumptions?
Same-sex is not the same as male-female.
Living one's life getting doped up all the time does not make the world better.
Ohhhhh - so freedom to do something YOU don't want to do doesn't count as freedom. I get it.
It is the left, not the right, who oppose capturing our own resources.
Nicely dodged. It is the right, not the left, that opposes any attempt to curtail fuel usage (and maybe - horrors! do without something from time to time), pretending instead that we can just finish depleting our own resources and that will solve our problems forever.
The right wants our freedom to practice religion protected.
There is not now, nor has there ever been, the slightest threat to your right to practice your religion. I said IN GOVERNMENT. That's not practicing; it's establishing. It is the right, not the left, that holds far more antipathy toward any worldview except for Christianity. The contemptible union of religion and politics that took place under Reagan was the worst thing ever to happen to either.
Jesus talked about marriage between one man and one woman, talked against all sex outside wedlock, and defended the death penalty. All conservative values.
You really want to go there? He also talked about not judging others, and not amassing wealth. I really don't have time to pile on the scripture, but Jesus' point was to be nice to one another and to eschew worldly goods. Very sloppily played. Jesus was obviously a liberal - consider when he lived.
All you've done is to redefine "freedom" to exclude anything of which liberals might be in favor.
All of which is so ridiculously far afield from the point, here, that there is no point whatsoever to pursuing it. But have at it if you must.
Jesus said to "judge righteously". As far as "amassing wealth", there is plenty about "not to envy". As long as the leftists make it their mission to envy/resent/judge people based on how much money they have, then punish them for having it, killing jobs and creating suffering in the process, the world is not a better place.
We don't judge motives, only consequences. The left hated Reagan because he didn't stand for more govt control in people's lives, but more personal responsbility. The left hates personal responsibility and cherishes the govt, but only as long as they are in control/power; thus, the contempt of personal success/wealth from anyone nnot sharing their worldview, because it takes away from the left's obsession to control.
As to this topic, you won't find any conservatives agreeing with the release of the murderer; in this country they are only on the left. The left doesn't ask what makes the world better, by looking at the consequences of their ideas; they ask first how do we get/maintain/exert power then if they feel good about it that somehow justifies it. Releasing the murderer was all about feelings, not justice. Another example of liberal feel-good emotions leading to cruelty and suffering.
Ric: You've got your true colors flapping nicely in the wind for all to see. No time to parse out your truckload of BS (busy making a living); I will leave your contemptible screed on behalf of both sides laid bare as you left it. I can't hurt your cause any more than you already have. I'm just glad I could make you actually say it.
When the left cannot refute truth, they instead demean and attack on a personal level. My posts were never directed as PERSONAL insults to anyone I addressed. Too bad those addressing me on this page cannot say the same.
Liberalism embraces sympathy for the guilty. This murderer going free is the product of such morally broken "reasoning".
Liberalism = sympathy for the cruel = cold cruelty towards the innocent.
If those on the left can see the cruelty as the CONSEQUENCE of letting this murderer free, they should also reflect on their own liberal philosphy of "sympathy for the cruel" that creates cases like this. Deal with what makes the world better/worse based on the consequences of choices!!! Having good motives means nothing!! Not when the consequences make the world worse.
He should die in jail. He destroyed so many families. If he could bring back those he killed, then he could be released on compassion. If not, he should rot in jail.
I thought LIFE IN PRISON ment LIFE IN PRISON. Guess when the last time a person died of old age was? 1952 was the last time doctors used OLD AGE as a cause of death. So of course the guy was going to get cancer, have a heart attack, or die somehow that is why he recieved life in prison. Now after the parades in Lybia are over, he can die a hero to the cause instead of being a worm dying in a box like he was supposed to. A real travisty to be sure. The Scottish Judge should be ashamed.
This is SICK! Why should a terrorist & killer who stole memories & took the lives of so many be allowed to walk out & be free? We should have executed this scum on the spot upon his conviction. People like this deserve to be locked up - I don't care if they are sick, find a new type of lord, etc. They committed terrible acts and the MUST pay the price for their actions. If I violate the law in the Middle East do you think they'll go easy on me if I get sick? If anything they'd prevent me from getting treatment just to prolong my pain. What a joke! The families of the victims deserve to see this guy rot in a jail cell.
There is nothing to discuss here. That evil criminal stays in jail and that's all there is.
F--- HIM..let him die in prison!..Thats life in prison...his sentence.
How about this? Rather than waste money on keeping him in prison I think he should be taken up to 38,000 feet in a jet and pushed out, without a parachute. That way he might begin to understand the terror he inflicted on the poor innocents on the Lockerbie flight. I for one would be more than willing to push him out should he show any reticence.
NO !! NO !! He should never be released !! He should of been executed for killing all those people. They can never return to their families, so he shouldn't be allowed to either. When he does die from this cancer, he will go straight to hell.
Amen ..I have to agree...we shouldnt even be writing about this....HE HAD NO MERCY for everyone he killed...why have any mercy for him.. i say..die in jail..and even that is to easy
I love you people...your responses are great, justified and filled with compassion for the right people in this tragedy, the VICTIMS!!!!!
if the guy is innocent then like anyone else he should be free. however if the sob was involved in this killing then the same goes for hitler, stalin, castro, manson and all the others who beleive in dying for a cause instead of living for one, sick or not, he stays in jail. it's time to pay the piper.
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LET HIM ROT IN JAIL!!!