Touche! What a valid observation.

We are spending money to rebuild irac, our medicine is being used on their citizens our top doctors are performing life saving surgeries on another countries helpless why not ours?

If our country would take back what we spend on these wars we would have no deficit! Stop fighting for oil, find a solution so that AMERICA can float its own boat.

So many people forget that the Democrats controlled Congress for 40 years straight before the Republicans took control for 12. Let's get the facts straight.

To mark in st. pete...the fact that the GOP lost control after 12 years of power shows that there is something majorly wrong with either their platform or their tactics. The fact that the Republicans cannot capitalize properly on the relative conservatism of most Americans is not the Dems' fault. Maybe, just maybe, they've shown they cannot be trusted with the common welfare of the American people. And misinformation spread by Republicans like Sarah Palin and Joe Wilson just reinforce the fact that the GOP is not fit to represent the American people.

What are you talking about? I assume you mean Obama won't take Medicare (the 'public option' will be similar to Medicare)... Obama isn't disabled or 65 - he isn't eligible for Medicare.

He made a mistake and apologised. I think President Obama should invite him to the White house for a beer, talk things over and see if he can get another vote...

To Donna-454628: What are you talking about? Did you not listen to the speech? Obama said that people who could not get insurance coverage in the private market had a right to expect the same health care coverage standards as himself and members of Congress, the nation and the world. He said it in public, on TV, in front of the entire Congress. People like you are so blinded by your paranoid hartred of Obama that you can't see, hear, or think straight. Never let the truth get in the way of your preconceived notions.

BTW - It's "liar", not "lier".

I am a Republican through and through but I can not condone acts such as his. Obama is President and people must face up to it. He will get the same opportunity as every other President to keep America financially and terrorists safe. I will back any President in office as he was selected by the majority. I don't have to back everything he has done or will do. His rating will show whether the majority accepts him or rejects him, as it always has. To date his rating has fallen below 50% and that is not good news for any one in that position. Time will tell. Bashing and heckling does nothing to help any cause. To come in here and show your feelings is does nothing but make your heart beat faster and anger build inside you. That, my friend, is not good for anyone's health. There is not one person, in here, that can make a difference in this country. Only the majority rules and if you want change, get that majority to accept your change and move forward. We will have the opportunity to vote again and this time make sure you understand politics before casting your vote. Voting out of hate and poor knowledge can only do more harm than good. It's sort of like what Nostradamus said. "The 3rd Anti-Christ will have a golden tongue and seduce the people into putting him into power, of which he will rule and destroy the the countries. He will divide nations among nations to go against themselves."

to moonstrem

Where did you learn how to write? Oh wait, you didn't; my bad.

To mark in st. pete

Let me get this straight, When America decides to give republicans a chance in power and they clearly blow it in every way possible (and continue to do so) it's because the democrats don't have America's best interest in mind. Huh! 40 year vs 12 years.

I ask why a lot of republicans are such angry, close minded people? Clearly, your way is not the only way, nor is only the Democrat way. Diversity has alway been our strength, it's what made America and continues to be, "reps" don't be sheep and follow the ones that, knowingly or not, try to break up America from with in. There's is only one America and together we can do whatever we is best; Most the rest of the world sees it that way. Why can't you?

skipster56,

Except for the Nostradamus qoute, as a fellow republican I agree with you 100%.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."- Lincoln

Call Joe Wilson now, tomorrow, and indefinitely until his resignation is on the speakers desk.

Fax:
202-225-2455

Phone and U.S. Mail:
The Midlands’ Office
1700 Sunset Blvd (US 378), Suite 1
West Columbia , SC 29169
Phone: (803) 939-0041
Phone: (888) 381-1442 (*only for area codes 803, 843, and 864)
Fax: (803) 939-0078

The Lowcountry Office
903 Port Republic Street, Beaufort, SC 29902
Mail to: Post Office Box 1538, Beaufort, SC 29901
Phone: (843) 521-2530
Fax: (843) 521-2535

The Washington Office
212 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-2452
Fax: (202) 225-2455

Y'all know, of course, that if a Democrat had done the same thing to a Republican that the news media and all the other lefties out there would be hooten, holleren, and high-fiven one another and the praise and accolades would be unending for the demonstrated hutzpah.

Oh lighten up ... Obama deserved it ...

So many people forget that the Democrats controlled Congress for 40 years straight before the Republicans took control for 12. Let's get the facts straight.

Given to what has happened with republicans in power this isn't much of a point. And nothing to really make a point of.

You know I could read this entire thread of comments but I think I will opt out of it now because all I could really do is just load up my ignore list.

For much of Bush's Presidency the democrats, or at least one democrat could have called him a liar. That is something to think about, is that they do not have it in them, that they lack the "stuff" or is it the bar.

I like to think of that bar, as much as the rabidness of the right wing is present, and the coolness remains with the left, the cooler heads will in the end prevail and the rest just left looking more like fools.

As low as they want to go is fine, it's easy to go there, but as long as the rest keep their own bar higher, well you that know what I mean, get my drift.

Out.

Barney L. Cornett - You are illustrating just what I hate most about trying to have a good conversation about a unusual political event in which someone excersized their free speech right and albeit inappropriately confronted a sitting president and called him a liar. Your generalizations, and own name calling is just supporting the beliefs and statements of others on the otherside of the argument and not helping your reasoning or argument one bit.

gracie-1093372 & lp-1072382 - I find it strange that people that jump to racism after hearing someone yell "You Lie!", seem to spout of the most derogatory and racist statements towards those that may not agree with them. Just because someone does not agree with your point of veiw is no reason to call them a racist. Also, negatively labeling an entire group based on their beliefs is wrong. And before you attack me and accuse me of being racist, I am a American who happens to be white who grew up in the south, married to an American of Peurto Rican decent, we have adopted four children one is Native American. I am not conservative/liberal or Democrat/Republican. I am independent. I am simply one of the regular working class people trying to get by from paycheck to paycheck working two jobs. What do I believe the government should do to help me? Take care of business and leave the partisan BS at the door and get some real change going for the betterment of OUR nation.

It was the repuglicans that got us into the last depression so bad that it took a Democrat president AND a World War to get us out of it

The outburst was inexcusable but the facts are still in question. At this time we won't cover illegals, but where is the control mechanism? The issue for most of us is:

1. We don't believe that this is a deficit neutral proposal. Where is the control mechanism if the cost adds to the deficit?

Either socialize the program or don't, but any proposal that gets us 1/2 in will leave us with a half working plan. Either get in or don't but somewhere in between will not work.

Wilson just proved correctly what Van Jones was just demonized for by the Republican party: Calling Republicans A$$holes. They keep proving, by their moronic behavior, his point time and time again. Keep it up! You are not destroying Democrats with this infantile behavior...you are destroying yourselves. MANY a time Democrats certainly could have accused Bush during an address of being a liar (which we now know he was) but they have respect for the office. How pathetic this party has become.

Harry Reid called Bush a liar and has never apoligized. Polossi sang Ding Dong The Witch is Dead when Bush arrived for Obama'inaguration. You call what respect?

I see a great variety of comments, facts and fiction discussed and "vocalized" here. As per our constitution, we are exercising our Freedom of Speech - one of the Great things about this country. While I think it was unprofessional of Wilson to voice his opinion in the manner and at the time he did, I don't believe that he derserves to be crucified for his opinion and for being human. Obama has publically expressed opinions based on fewer facts than Wilson has and he wasn't crucified - he was allowed to be human, admit he was wrong and let the situation pass. I believe that Wilson deserves the same. For those people on here that believe a politican - any politican - can't or isn't lying because they read the teleprompter and look sincere on National TV, please grow up. All politicans lie, none of them will take the same health insurance plans and retirement plans that we must choose from. I will show more support for our corrupt leadership (country & corporate) when they are willing to live by the same systems that are supposed to benefit All American citizens. Think about it - the people leading this country have more vacation time than the average citizen, guaranteed retirement plan, better- guaranteed medical benefits and we pay for it all while we work harder to see our money not go as far. Regardless of which party you support more, as a citizen you should be getting pretty ticked off at where this country is, where it is headed and that our "elected" leaders demonstrate clearly that they believe they are better than those of us who work everyday for living. Personally, I am disgusted (and have been for years) that the politicans claim to be "by the people, for the people." It's more like by their peers and for their careers!

To Barney L. Cornett: You are simply wrong in virtually everything you said. First, there is a time and place for such dissent and that was not it. Noone jumped up and called Bush a liar during such a speach...even though, as we now know, he was quite often lying. And Obama was not lying as the bill specifically excludes illegals. Maybe you, and WIlson, should actually read it sometime. And I didn't see democrats jumping to defend Jefferson the way republicans jumped to defend Cunningham. As for the rest of your trash...it is simply based on fantasies. For example, on your college funding/middle class claim...Hello...Obama's Grandmother was a VP for the Bank of Hawaii. But thanks for demonstrating how completely insane and irrational the right has become.

Brandon In Montana: while I agree with most of your response to gracie...you are overly charitable to the right in presenting the question of granting benefits to illegals as a matter of opinion. The bill specifically excludes illegals. That is not opinion...it is fact. If the right were sticking to honest complaints that there is insufficient enforcement built into the bill, then I could defend their position. But that is not what is happening. Portraying their side as legitimate or honest debate is giving credit where it's not due.

Totally agree with you.

Old fat guy...look at the venue where the statmements were made. This was a forum that is supposed to be respectful and of course the President was speaking. My students show more respect when I am teaching.

dizzykat - I don't believe that I was being charitable to anyone. I was merely commenting on the fact that this man is being called a racist for calling the POTUS a liar. Now I as I stated I am a simple working class family man, so no I have not read the 1000+ page proposed bill. However, whether the man was right or wrong or even lying, nothing that he said can be construed as racism. I made no mention of coverage of illegal immigrants in my response, due to the fact that I am not informed enough on the entirety of the bill to make an educated statement about what it may or may not contain in the fine details. Now as far as "Portraying their side as legitimate or honest debate is giving credit where it's not due." The same thing could be said on either side of the aisle. We have two factions butting heads on one side we have the Republican Minority in lockstep trying everything they can to stop this bill from being passed, and accusing the POTUS and the Dems of being sorcialists that are trying to institue a large socialized system. On the other side of the aisle we have the Democrat majority doing everything they can to push this bill through and labeling dissenters as elitist, wealthy, uninformed imbeciles, that don't care about the poor or minorities. The point I am making is like I had posted similarily on a similar thread is that both parties piss me off equally and until they can stop all the damn partisan name calling, mud slinging, and finger pointing, there is no way that OUR government can effect positive change for ALL American people.

It was inexcusable but the fact is Repubs tried to pass an amend that stated you had to prove citizenship to use this ins. Dems shot it dow

tazam78

So you want everytime some one goes to the emergency room they have to pull out their birth certificate or green card? Or maybe they should have their number branded on their forehead?

Wilson, who is a disciple of Strom Thurmand, is the perfect example that the GOP is collapsing into an incredibly dense core of racists and brainectomied right-wing-nuts slavishly aping their alpha males, ie. Lush, Dreck, Hammity, O'Liely, Coulter.

Nice.....very true. The GOP is outdated and full of douchebags and liars, as it has been seen lately.

John 8:32 & 45 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Pg 50 Section 152 in HC Bill - HC will be provided to ALL non-U.S. citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Joe Wilson does not need to be "muzzled" by the democratic majority. The President did lie not only to members of the House but to all the American people who watched him.

Ray K.

Joe Wilson is just another republican cry baby @!$%#!!!!!

Wilson's hair follicles should be tested for evidence of heavy metal poisoning.

It was Joe Wilson & his Republicon/Conservative buddies you have been LYING Through Their Teeth as they have for months!!! And the Lying SOB's Continue to LIE!! It's Disgusting! These guys have no scruples... no ethics... and no morals!

Wilson's blatant disrespect for the office of the presidency is a striking reflection of his bile character and unethical political tactics. The Bill 3200 can't be written any plainer than it is that NO illegals aliens will qualify for health care!! Furthermore, Obama has his own bill of which he was mainly referring to in his speech on Wednesday.

Wilson done the right thing "HE GOT THE LIE OUT THAT FOR EVERYONE TO HEAR WAS KEY" then apologize to obama . Now he should be able to fright for all of us in this country, He's the only senator that has stood up to Obama and called Obama out. All Democrats who think Wilson should apologize to congress are all drunk. Those in Congress should kiss Wilson A.. for standing up to Obama.

The american public, we live in a society that allows for freedom of expression. We as americans feel that at any giving time we can burst out our opinion on any matter and at any time, without any subjection or care for retribution. Yes Mr Wilson may have felt that the President was not entirely truthful. Am sure that Mr wilson would not appreciate an equal out burst if he was the one who was giving a peach to the nation. Mr wilson as a representative of congress should have respect for his superior. He Mr wilson lack control and self respect for his office and The people he represents.

Corriss Kirkpatrick,

Pg 50 Section 152 in HC Bill - HC will be provided to ALL non-U.S. citizens, illegal or otherwise

and that is because health care will not be refused to anyone in need of emergency care in the US, legal or illegal. that is a civil right extended to ANYONE seeking emergency health care in the US

that point you're using to point out a lie by the President is exactly what is so wrong about you and everyone else that keeps calling the President a liar when he tries to explain the Health Care Insurance Reform Plan. look closely at what you highlighted, edited, and tried to use to prove your point...guaranteeing...health care (HC). that is not the same thing as guaranteeing health care insurance to all.

you need to read more thoroughly...listen more carefully, and speak less often about this subject, until you understand the difference between health care being guaranteed to all; and affordable health care insurance that the President is trying to propose for all legal residents. this is what the special interest are manipulating...and you are and so many others are up in arms and so confused by.

...you thought you were so right, didn't you? hopefully now you realize that you are working against something that you really would like to have

Civilitity, It dose'nt start with Joe Wilson in the republican party look back to Dick Chenny and his outburst in the Senate to Pat Leahy, words I can't print.

Realistically US now needs to either implement what is called in other countries "institute of local assignment" and vigilantly track every individual violating not just country border, but even state border.

Miron,

Really!

Realistically US now needs to either implement what is called in other countries "institute of local assignment" and vigilantly track every individual violating not just country border, but even state border.

and you could support coming up with a plan that would pay for the endless effort it would take to accomplish that (you did, afterall, suggest it)...but you groan about the cost associated with health care insurance reform.

...instead of "total reform" that has neither sufficient intellectual grounding nor baking of alien fiscal institution with un - ending resources, it seems to require.

you seem mis-guided and a mis-informed. do you have any figures on the federal funding it consumes to secure the national boarders? and you're suggesting an idea that involves monitoring the movement of illegal residents as they traverse state borders as well? and this money (were your suggestions ever accomplished) would come from what pile of untapped tax money that exist for that...but does not exist for health care insurance reform.

get back to me on that...AFTER you figure out how to make that make sense

Miron, i'm not quite done...

Well... yeah, and even more then that

it also sounds like you want every fourteen year old that's had a skateboard accident to provide ID and proof of citizenship before they are eligible to receive treatment from emergency care providers.

You should think of it before you approve any bills, but our President is bent on passing bill first and thinking "after".

you've obviously thought through your posted comments thoroughly!

No one calls him a king but he does deserve respect. All you haters always have something to say but you never speak the truth. He was a disgrace to all Republicans and the Congress. We have to agree to disagree in order for Americans to receive the best healthcare, education, jobs etc.

How scary! No one remembers what country this is! Next thing, they will want him tortured!

Joe Wilson is a politician also, and given the time and place, he should have NEVER opened his mouth like that. He revealed his true neck color.

JDM, haven't you ever heard the term "a time and place for everything?" Wilson's outburst displayed a lack of respect for the man, regardless of the fact that he holds one of the most respected seats in the free world. I will bet my last dollar that Wilson would have never committed that despicable act if the POTUS was "someone else"... lets not dance around it, let's keep it real.

Question: How would you react if a Congressman made an outburst like this while George W. Bush was speaking before ajoint section of Congress?

You spelled president wrong, He is the cheif executive of the united states, elected by the people in a majority. This position demands the respect and civility of all in a formal setting.

It wasn't a townhall meeting where you can heckle the person speaking. Its a presidental address. I do believe in speaking your opinion but the congressperson should of spoken when its the appropriate time for it. The guy should feel really stupid and embarassed for what he's done.

You're right, President Obama is not "the King." He is OUR PRESIDENT, elected fair and square by AMERICANS. I believe every American has the right to free speech (you know, the 1st admendment), but you don't heckle Our President (democrat or republican) when he is addressing congress-in their house. Heaven knows, past republican president(s) have given enough opportunities for heckling in the house, but you never saw one get it - too much respect for the office. Congressional addresses are not the place for hecklers-go to a comedy club.

You must know the meaning of respect for others.

Even at the height of the Bush Derangement epidemic, Democrats listened when the Republican war criminal said his peice. So what's next from the peanut gallery? Republicans throwing spitwads and paper airplanes during the SOTU?

You babies need to grow up and start acting like adults instead of tantrum-throwing two year olds.

He has the right to voice his opinion in a seperate avenue. To yell out in the middle of a speech given by our president lacks in couth and shows great disrespect, not only for President Obama, but for our country. It makes our country appear divided, weak, and uneducated in the simple things, such as manners.

I don't really care if Joe Wilson respects Obama. I can't make him do that.

I care that he cannot show simple courtesy, good manners, and decorum appropriate for the setting. He showed rudeness to not just the President but all present and all listening.

JDM--You must be as rude as Wilson. Do you do that to guests in your house? Try factcheck.org. It is a fairly unbiased site with conservative underpinnings, that says the President didn't lie. Wilson did.

Have you considered what could have happened to a Democratic congressperson that had done this in the previous misadministration? Where the Shrub could not abide having members of his audience wearing t-shirts he didn't agree with? Where protesters were hidden from his view?

And a very very poor President. Do you think he will bail us out when this Health care overhaul fails.

Wrong time, wrong place, wrong words to yell, but he was truthful. Read the words and you will find that illegal aliens are not being excluded from taxpayer-paid healthcare coverages. Now is the time to significantly reduce the number of unemployed citizens with their added exodus of U.S. Dollars and the huge tax burdens we pay for medical care, legal support and imprisonment by sending all of the 12 million plus illegal aliens back to their home countries. This, of course, is in addition to the harm that is done to law-abiding employers who can no longer compete fairly with their unprincipled competitors.

And equal to the members of Congress, not superior to them.

You're wrong. Everyone has a right to free speech, but civilized people should act that way. A degree of decorum and decency should have been observed. It looks like civility and respect are foreign concepts to you. He is an adult, and should have acted like one. Save the childishness for his town halls. Pathetic.

Wow Donna. "a very very poor president" What is that opinion based on? He seems to be doing fairly well with the mess he inheirited. Just today I heard unemployment rates have fallen. Our economy is showing signs of improvement. The housing market is showing subtle signs of improvement. He has a plan for bringing our troops home. He is working to ensure all legal citizens have access to health care. This is endorsed by the American Medical Association, The American Nurses Association and many other respected medical professionals. I am a Nurse of 21 years and have seen all kinds of abuse, serious illness and even death because of our citizens not seeking timely medical care because they are uninsured. All taxpayers are paying for the uninsured to use Emergency Rooms for non-emergencies because they can't pay at the Doctor office. Many choose between medicine and food. This is happening in the greatest country in the world. Reform is long overdue. Please tell me why I should value your opinion and what your evidence is that he is a "poor president." What do you base this on?

gee what color is it in your liberal world?

the jobless rate has just gone UP!

and as far as the 'so called' heckling

it was a guy with his Country at heart and

when he heard the same old socialistic

mind controlling attempts of this man who

was elected illegally ( he WAS born in Kenya!)

he lost it ........for a short moment, so please forgive

him, he apologized, something the libs never did

when they were rude and interrupted President Bush

over and over during his S.O.T.Union address!

We forgave Pelosi for her un American activities (calling

the C.I.A. LIARS!) and her

misuse of the taxpayers money on her BRAND NEW

jet , (which she demanded on day one of her admin)

and when she didn't get it, she just waited for the

right moment...and 'stole it'! from you and me!

Why don't you protest that? You pay taxes too!

Republicans will retake the White House from this

administration so get ready !

it will benefit you too!

as far as one of your 'counterparts' who said this

outspoken patriot (Mr. Wilson) was 'rude' or something

equally childish...all I can say is I he was

just exercising his Freedom of Speech , while he still could!

there will be a major change and it will be the Republicans

retaking the Whitehouse, and also getting rid of any

'fence sitters' who voted against the American Constitution!

a citizen who still believes in the Constitution!

Belinda. Your information gathering is a bit off, Unemployment rates have gone up, not down. Our economy is NOT showing signs of recovering as of today. The Cash for Clunker program was only a temp fix. Think of the economy like this. The economy is a big gash in your arm. The blood flows freely. You go to the doctor and he puts 1 stitch in it, but the blood is still streaming down your arm. That is what is happening. If you followed the news yesterday, they stated the the foreclosure problem is going to get much worse. He does not have a plan to bring the troops home. As a matter of fact he is planning on sending more troops to Afghanistan. So, in closing, it is in bad taste for anyone to bash the President of our country, but it is best, when stating facts to state just that. Facts.

Obviously his mother didn’t raise him very well. Interrupting is always rude. Interrupting the president of the United States mid sentence on national television shows that we really have evolved from the apes, just that some haven’t evolved as far as others.

I wonder would you feel the same way if the present commander in chief was someone other than Mr. Obama? Sounds like his politics is not the true issue you have with Mr. Obama. I hope you don't live in a glass house!!

Wilson is not fit to be a Congressman and he's not upholding any respectable American's values. True Americans won't stand for this type of nonsense. You don't deface the flag and you don't EVER heckle The President...PERIOD!

I'll bet you fly the Confederate flag at your house JDM.

Obama is the problem, not Joe Wilson. I will call his office and thank him for standing up to a puppet in a suit. People need to wake up and see what this man is doing...do you think when Obama accused the police officer of racism that was right? Obama is the racist. These people in Washington D.C. are evil and want to change everything we have known about our FREE NATION. They want our money, and want to fundamentally change this country. We need to vote out all the DEMOCRATS in 2010 and any Republicans that have been in office too long. We need change, but not the change B.O. is offering. Get that guy out of the White House.

Believer, you had a puppet in a suit for the last 8 years, his name was dubya and Cheney was making him move and talk with his hand up dubya's a........

___________________________________________________________________

If we quit voting for them will they go away?

There should be term limits on all political offices, not just the president and some governors. There should also be no salary for life for those holding any political office, as it is now if you are elected to office, at the federal level, you get paid for life no matter how short or long your term is.

I'd like a job like that, "work" for 4, 6, or 8 years and then continue to get paid after you decide to "retire" (quit) or you get "voted out of office" (fired) by your boss.

makes our country appear divided

Last time I looked appearances seem to be correct because IMHO we are pretty divided.

I think it was not right what this congressman did.

I do wish our president would do more to try and bridge the divide, but as long as he continues to blame others for the mess and denigrate any who disagree with him, (no matter how much he veils it) the divide will continue to grow

Obama has done everything imaginable to solicit Republican input. But you can't work with disrespectful people who text message during a speech, who yell insults during a speech, and who walk out during a speech. Not just any speech - but one in in a joint session of Congress.

The Republican party is ridiculous, and they should all be embarassed to allow a bunch of ill-mannered Southern boys set the tone of discourse. The fact that the party has no leaders makes it all the more clear that they are the party of white voters who are just plain angry that a Black man has more stature than they do. They liked it better when the deal was rigged the other way in the past - you know, where white folks automatically were better, just because of their pigment....

The Republicans are the party of the South. Angry, ignorant, intractable, and still living off the money of the federal government.

My spiteful comment - If I were Obama - I'd shut the bases in the South, close the government facilities, and have those paychecks go to the folks in other parts of the country who have better manners. If they really don't like government programs in the South, then they should all be cut off from Social Security and Medicare and military pensions and military helathcare. Half of the South lives off that stuff.

My forgiving comment - let's drop this topic. It has no bearing on the healthcare debate, and gives time and energy to a no-name congressmen from my dopey state. Media - stop covering this nonsense.

Freedom of speech and you can not pull the wool over every ones eyes! BTW! It does seem as if some folks like being led by flowery speeches and promising words that are more like hot air than solid truth!! There I said it and don't read it if you don't like what I said!!

Dear Conservaphobics-

All Republicans are not from the South, not angry or ignorant or racist bigots.

(When will you all get over the race BS card - in case you haven't noticed, he is as much Anglo-American as he is African-American??? We don't be hatin' on him because of the color of his skin, it be the lies from his mouth!)

This Congressman from Michigan has some pretty compelling comments.

"The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G44NCvNDLfc&feature=player_embedded

Go Mike!

Go back to U. S. History class or learn some Civics. There are House rules, written by the Republicans, that set the tone and behavior of how Representatives are to act.

One section specifically speaks to the fact that yelling out anything to the President of the United States while he or she is speaking to either the House or the Senate and the House, is NOT allowed.

Look it up. I am giving it as a hand-out to my Constitution class on Monday. Wilson can disagree or feel the President is lying, but he CAN'T yell it out during a speech. It's against the rules and it's childish, unhinged, desperate behavior.

It is the office of the President of the United States that is to be respected. The disrespect for the office was shown in a joint meeting of the Senate and Congress in the House. It was a failure to observe the rules of behavior in the House. Quit mixing your personal slant against an individual with what was offensive behavior.

There is NO EXCUSE for Joe Wilson's despicable behavior and disrespect for the president and congress. We can disagree, however that is NOT the Forum to voice your opinion. Furthermore, Pres. Obama said to the Republicans and to all you have ideas, "my door is always open". Joe Wilson should have met with the president in an appropriate setting and discussed his disagreement or concerns with the president regarding the health care bill. There simply is NO Excuse, no excuse for his behavior and Wilson's approach so far is completely Unproductive!

How soon people forget. Especially when it suits their argument. Bush was booed by the Democrats when he said that Social Security would go bankrupt. And now it is even on the Social Security website that payments could be reduced by 2025 if changes are not made. I don't remember Democrats wanting a public apology when they booed in 2005, so what makes it different this time?

skipster,

The Cash for Clunkers program was only a temp fix. Think of the economy like this. The economy is a big gash in your arm. The blood flows freely. You go to the doctor and he puts 1 stitch in it, but the blood is still streaming down your arm. That is what is happening. If you followed the news yesterday, they stated the the foreclosure problem is going to get much worse.

since you offered your analogy, i'll use it to rebut your theory, somewhat. now, if you don't panic about the gash, clean it up and examine the injury thoroughly, you COULD very-well place one stitch precisely where it needs to be to close the wound properly; and then move on to fixing some other injuries that may exist (pardon me for ad-lib)

but this economy's problems aren't quite that simple. we are a nation that was thrust into a conflict with terrorist by the events of 9/11. those events have forced some decisions to be made, that weren't easy to make (liberals and conservatives refrain from comment; this isn't an effort to further divert this forum to yet another off-topic discussion...i'm taking it far enough off-topic as is). Those efforts strained our economy, whether you agree or not with the choices that were made. that pushed some very high-priority domestic matters like this health insurance reform work into a secondary status. our President is now trying to get this matter back to a focal point (again...agree or disagree, not now...). if it were just a simple injury, as you used in your analogy, it would maybe be something that could respond to a quick fix more readily. the events that put you, me and every us citizen under pressure of economic peril, was a war that was VERY expensive, marginally effective, and without an easy exit strategy.

i said all that to ask you if you think YOU or any other person knows how to step into this economic ring and start delivering one-shot knockout blows to the problems this country is facing with it's economy. "There are no silver bullets..."

the health care reform work is a step toward improving our quality of life in an area that has huge impact on long term economic factors. so you have an example above of the President applying a fix to the auto-industry to address a short term economic need; and an example of an approach to address the health and well-being of the nation's population, which won't show up immediately, but will impact the economy on a long term basis.

as for your comment to the housing market decline continuing, economic experts knew the housing decline would continue far longer than this stage of the President's first term. You really are asking a lot of this Administration if, in the first year, you wanted more to happen sooner. Unrealistic expectations on your part, doesn't define failure by this adminstration.

btw, the latest reports on the status of the recession is that we're now through the worst of it. i know it's several days after your original post, but that's an indication that something is working for this administration. maybe things have changes in eight days since you posted?

I'm angry like you Angel, but booting him from office isn't yours or my job, or even his party's job. It's up to his constituents in South Carolina to boot him from office. His opponent for next year already received over 200K in donations after this outburst. It's their call and us calling for his head does nothing to advance this debate on health care, where I think all people in both parties can agree that something needs to be done. I'm scared and angry too though at the complete lack of respect for the President and the apparent lack of decorum not only in Congress, but all across this great country.

Should Obama have been "booted" when he bowed to our enemy, and apologized for the American people to other enemies who want to kill all of us? Should he be "booted" because he has hired tax cheats, racists and an avowed Communist? Should he be "booted" because he used HIS freedom of speech to call the actions of police as acting "stupidly" when they tried to assure that Obama's buddy, (who was overreacting and throwing out the face card), was safe from what they thought could be an intruder in the man's home?

This whole incident with Mr. Wilson has been way overblown. But...he did sit quietly while Obama, himself, accused all kinds of groups and people of lying during the very same event.

Really??!! You're serious?

The problem with America is the inability of it's citizens to think for themselves. "Bowed to our enemy...racists...Communist...stupidly..." You know how I can tell you're a Republican, your arguments is insane.

Disrespecting the President of the Unites States is never an overblown incident...no matter who the President is. Personally, I'm proud of President Obama for calling out the people who spread lies and ignorance to the American people. I hope he keeps it up...I hope you get a clue.

Those incidents are all on tape. I agree that we should all respect the office of the President of the United States, however, it should work both ways. And from both parties.

You know how I can tell you're a Democrat? Because you buy everything that's practically being shoved down our throats...without question. We CAN question our government, at least for NOW, and we should.

Aggie - the republicans do the same thing forcing their family values and all other nonsense on people.

The repuglicans keep cutting funding for education for a reason known only to them until now. They want a country that can't think for themselves and will believe anything they tell them.

Darned, too late, it's already happened, they lied to us and invaded Iraq. The repuglicans in power stated, as fact, that Iraq had Weapons of mass destruction. We found none! The repuglicans in power stated, as fact, that Iraq was trying to build a nuclear device (bomb for you repuglicans). We found NO program! The repuglicans in power stated, as fact, that Iraq was backing Al-Qaeda. We found that Saddam was against them too!

Who got most of the rebuilding and supply contracts in Iraq? Haliburton did, you know, the repuglican Cheney's "old" company.

Now the repuglicans want us to believe that healthcare reform will kill us all (actually doctors are fraid the government will set the prices they can charge). Healthcare reform is needed so that healthcare can be as affordable as a basic education. If the repuglicans had their way you would have to pay for that too, until you're 65 of course, then you would get it for free or at greatly reduced cost.

I think the repuglicans have their heads so far up their a**es they couldn't see the truth if it hit them with a baseball bat in broad daylight.

(note to self: you could make a fortune from the repuglicans by selling them glass belly-buttons so they could still see while they have their heads up their a**es.)

Aggie, should Bush have been booted for kissing our enemy? (kissing/bowing..which is the more egregious act?) Winking at the Queen? Lying to American people? Bankrupting the coffers of the government? Making a decision based on greed that has ended up killing millions? For trampling on our civil liberties? The list goes on and on. You don't think Bush had communist/nazi affliliations? They even existed in his family tree. So all of this baloney about these kinds of affiliations needs to stop. Those accusations belong to the McCarthy era. We aren't even at "cold" war with those nations anymore. Get over it.

Angle, Greg and Karma; Amen !! Three Great Posts! I'm so sick and tired of the Repub/neo-con(Libertarian) Lies!! Have you noticed they haven't stopped Lying even after the campaign ended?!

you going to showthe prez the door also, he did his fair share of liar calling, he set the tone

What is the problem? Neither one was obscene.

john - when did President Obama do what you say he did? Did he show that much disrespect?

I'm a democrat. I was sick (in bed) on election day. I didn't vote. I most likely would have voted AGAINST McCain/Palin.

Even though I am a Democrat, I can vote either way (unlike alot of people).

All of this @!$%# that President Obama gets blamed for didn't start when he became president. That, IMO, is the problem. So many people (republicans) think Obama started everything. Hell, NIXON was the shining REPUBLICAN. As long as there are those of us who remember NIXON, there will never be anyone worse for this country!

john-847382

you going to showthe prez the door also, he did his fair share of liar calling, he set the tone

This from the party of "law and order"? The President of the United States had the floor. Roberts Rules of Order require that anyone else who wishes to speak must first be recognized. Even in the fantasy Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, the rules were observed!

This is exactly what is wrong with this country today; 90% of the populace act like spoiled-brat-not-very-bright-pre-schoolers! Whatever happened to TAKE TURNS?? The Distinguished Gentleman from South Carolina (I choked, but I got it out!) has every right, as do we all, to rebut any point that he disagrees with BUT, no one - repeat, NO ONE - on this planet has the right for flout the rules of civil discourse and expect to be taken seriously.

Gayle-324397,

You asked the following:

john - when did President Obama do what you say he did?

I believe John-847382 may have been referring to this exchange in the sentence prior to the outburst:

Obama:...Some of people's concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but by prominent politicians that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens.

Now, such a charge would be laughable if it weren't so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie plain and simple.

(APPLAUSE)

You apparently haven't watched what goes on every week when the UK's Prime Minister has to endure questioning by members of the House of Commons.

Oh, if only Congress had the gumption to hold the President to that level of accountability!

Obama Hitler Healthcare? Now I have heard it all! Do you even know anything about Hitler? To compare President Obama to Hitler shows that you are another of the hysterical, ridiculous people who do not do any research on your own, but listen to every piece of garbage that comes over the airwaves. Please...Please...Please...become more informed! Educate yourself by reading the proposed healthcare bill. Don't...please, don't be another of the followers of the neo-con destroyers who have set their course to destroy this President and this great nation.

That is the truth you speak there. I dont think that any of our congressmen/women or senators could hold up to what the English go through..But the truth is I know for a fact that illegals are or will get treated. Hmm how do I know. Well im from El Paso Tx and with the Border issues here, when a mayor of Juarez or police from Jaurez are shot/injured they are not taken to a Juarez hospital, they are taken to Thomason General in El Paso, the whole hospital is basically shut down with armed guards, no one in and while the "foreigners" and yes they are treated by Americans at our expense. The mexican Govt isnt paying a dime. So you need to think about the priorities here.

Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II we are not in the UK . Don't you remember that event called the Revolutionary War?

Seems it is YOU and people like you who can ONLY see the color of a person's skin. There were probably more people who voted FOR him BECAUSE he was black, than there were people who did NOT vote for him for that reason. BOTH are blatant racists!!!! You are not the "bigger" person for pointing out how all inclusive you are, you're not the only black OR white person who doesn't CARE what color a person's skin in. By insisting on stirring the racial pot, it is insulting to any and all races of AMERICANS.

Oh please! We all know that 99% of the reason Republicans don't respect President Obama is because he's black. They are all closet racist.

As a black woman, I prefer racists who let their hate flag fly, that way you know who you're dealing with and where they really stand.

The problem isn't that they lost to a Democrat, it's that they lost to "a black". I live it everyday as an African American. There's only so much success that Afircan Americans are supposed to have. And if that success doesn't come on a basketball court or from hip hop music, we're over stepping our boundaries; now we have a problem. I grew up in a military family, enter-actingwith all races. The Republican Party has always been a club for racist. I don't have any problem with white people-I have a problem with Republicans no matter their race.

But lets call a spade a spade: Republicans don't like having a black man calling the shots. Bottom line.

I am sorry for you that you are so invested in your hate. Myself and my adult children have all had African Americans as our bosses. Educated, successful people. So you're belief that you are being held back solely because of your race is dilussional. I'm not saying it NEVER happens, mind you, just that you have tunnel vision. Explain to me please why you say "African Americans can only go so far".....yet we have an African American President. I'd say that's pretty damn FAR,!!!! wouldn't you?

If you don't like the policies of the Republican Party, that is your perogative, but if you want to label the entire party as racists.....well, that is too narrow minded to even try to address to one whose mind is closed and is obviously so bitter. I'd say your "hate flag is definitely flying."

The repuglicans will do anything they can to discredit President Obama and his policies since Bush 3.0 and "the ditz from the north" couldn't get elected. They have stooped so low as to try to compare Obama to Hitler, Marx, Stalin and a number of other 'bad' guys. What they the repuglicans didn't realize and probably never will is that they had their own Napoleon (Cheney) in office and Jeraldine (Bush) was totally clueless the whole time.

_____________________________________________________________________

If we quit voting for them will they go away?

I live it everyday as an African American. There's only so much success that Afircan Americans are supposed to have

Keep telling yourself that, and keep teaching it to your children, it has worked so well. In my opinion it is time to let it go, move on, take responsibility for yourself and stop blaming the man for keeping you down.

We are who we believe ourselves to be.

Hey proud american - I agree with the African-American post. I am white, but it is easy to see that if most of the problems are coming from white, Southern men, it is racist.

No one really wants to admit this. Those who don't like Obama THINK it's because he is a socialist, whatever. That is an excuse to say I don't like him because of his socialistic policies. Bull - you don't like him because not only is he black, but he is smarter than all of the Republicans put together.

So to your ilk, a very smart black man who rises to the highest political level in this country, to you, is "uppidity."

The poster is correct. At least be honest about your racism.

And I voted for Obama - not because he is black, but because I did my research on both candidates and found him to be the smartest and the one most concerned for America.

Oh it's true. There are a lot of racist Republicans. Of course not all are but most of the ones I know are, and they all lie about! They'll make a racial epithet then turn around and get mad when you call them out on it! It's super annoying! It irritates me when people who I know are racist for a fact, say that they are not at all! I hear it at least once a week if not 5 or 6 times depending on what's going on in the news cycle.

Oh and now they are all calling themselves Independents which I also think is hysterical! Like Lou Dobbs who is clearly a bigot! Even Ted Turner called him out saying he was being nasty towards Latin Americans and Obama. He owns the network Lou Dobbs works on, in case you didn't know.

But I knew Obama was going to win. Not just when he won in Iowa or when he started getting ahead of Hilary but when I first heard him interviewed on Meet The Press around 3 yrs ago. I also knew it would stir up racial tensions in this country. I saw this coming a long time ago.

It doesn't matter what the current talking points are. Of course debates are going on about various policy changes, in this case, Health Care Reform. That's always been a hot button topic. But this time it seems that everyone wants reform except for the Republicans.

The bottom line is that the nasty behavior by the conservatives over the past 2 yrs has been part of an overall strategy to strike terror into the american people and plant so many seeds of doubt that everyone becomes utterly confused. Reply all you want. You will know as you are typing that what I'm saying is true. Plus I don't care because I don't ever come back to these boards.

But if you really watched this thing closely play out as I have, you would see that the socialist rhetoric was kicked into high gear just as Obama emerged as the Democratic candidate. It was always a back up plan. They talked about it openly for crying out loud! Openly discussing whether or not they were going to make the campaign about race early on.

It was only thrown in and kicked in at high gear when Sarah Palin came on the scene and at a time when the Republicans knew they could dig their heels in. While Hilary was licking her wounds and the Dem party seemed divided. It's called POLITICAL STRATEGY! None of it is even real. Well except for the hearts and minds that are merely collateral damage along the way!

The disrespect that was shown during the speech, not only by Wilson's outburst, but the always condescending Minority Whip Leader texting during the speech and all of the rude chattering and sign waving was over the top! Beyond the realm of freedom of speech. This level of disrespect is much more deeply rooted.

Don't forget the visceral town hall meetings, malicious e-mails and the clever little jingle "Barack The Magic Negro." And this is just what is being shown by the media. Unfortunately, this doesn't even scratch the surface of what's been stirred up among so many American people. I wish it weren't true but at least where I live, it is very much so.

The Nixon campaign's strategy was to stoke the American people's fear by fueling racism. Any political historian will tell you that plain and simple. Do some reading or googling and you can find out more on that.

Not all of the Republicans who are engaging in the current race bating even know that they are! Not ALL of them are even racist! Now, the boys from the South? I would be willing to bet LARGE sums of cash that 99% are! In fact, a documentary is underway as we speak which will reveal the truth about this.

I am so sick of hearing people deny it! It's soooooo annoying. I heard a guy the other night call President Obama stupid. This was a Texas frat boy who cheated his way through college only to achieve a BA and he's a President alright, of his mommy's family business! But he's got all the answers! Please! I could go on for days on things I've heard from all parts of the US as I travel a lot, so it's not just where I live! It is what it is!

Come on people! Wake up and smell the BS! Don't get sucked into arguing socialism and all this other crap the right is throwing out. This country has always had Socialist programs. It's what we do both here and abroad! Only here the socialism is among the wealthy. Abroad, we pay for everyone else to have freedom, food, firearms and funding and it's all over fuel. What's wrong with helping out our own middle class? Most everyone I know who are hard working middle class people between the ages of 22 or 23 and 45 or 50 don't have healthcare!

We have a President who was elected by a landslide! The name calling has to stop. Most of my generation generally has an aversion to intolerance. It's not in our make up as most of us went through the integration of the 70's made friends and just see things much differently. Like I said, our President was elected by a landslide!

Presidential support is an ebb and flow. We have to let them do their jobs! But I do wish people would just go ahead and wave their flags already and quit hiding behind issues that they don't even know much about! That way the MAJORITY, who elected our President doesn't get confused my all of the moronic hateful and untruthful rhetoric!

People, a Republican was on record saying that if they can stop him on Healthcare they can basically bring him down and it's because they know that perception is everything! They want to make sure at any cost, even your own healthcare, to make sure that he's a 1 term President!

Play on Play'as! But seriously, what are you even defending and arguing when it's all right there in front of you?

Joe Wilson is a front man for many many many more people just like him. A club that may as well be wearing white hoods in the House Chamber! Whatever.

Just look around people. They don't care one bit about anything but their own political ambitions and yet you passionately defend their heinous actions. Very sad. Your cutting off your noses to spite your own faces! It's also not fair to the tried and true Conservatives who are so by way of fiscally conservative values and various core beliefs and principles.

Done!

TO: Southern Girls R Best; Sadly, the conservatives, libertarians and republicans in the media and on the Blogs do Not present themselves a favorable light. There are few I have see on the net that are articulate, honest, and truely open to a constructive, honest, and sincere debate geared towards a viable solution. The jest of the these bloggers are sound bites of GOP congressional misrepresentations and then echoed by the likes of Fox, Rush and Beck.

With all due respect, the same southern congressman and/or governors who tried to impeach Pres. Clinton pushing the Moral Issue, are the Very Same who had extramarital affairs as well.

A little confused about your reply. Not sure what you were saying. I'm pretty sure that you are saying in a nutshell exactly what my point was, whether that was your intent or not. It's hard to tell sometimes when reading comments that are not openly slanted one way or the other, which I appreciate by the way.

Again, my concern is the impact that all the attention given to these extreme pundits has on people's hearts and minds, not to mention the impact it will have on their children and how it will shape their views as well as the highly dogmatic undertones which seem to be highly charged with disrespect. It is all about perception which was a major point I was trying to make.

As far as Clinton goes, he lied under oath. That is against the law! And make no mistake, I was furious about his actions for how much the whole ordeal cost the taxpayers and how much of a distraction it became. I could also see that the impeachment hearings were also and most likely more about strategy to bolster the Republican platform as much as anything else. Another good point to bring up which also underscores part of my commentary.

Southern politicians are some of the worst role models for the government! I know that all too well :( Again, part of my whole point.

Bring on more of the articulate, honest, and seriously open to a constructive, honest and sincere debate towards a viable solution! We need it! AMERICA needs it desperately!

name calling will get you anywhere you want, right, hipocrit

Hey MK Trash - you can't even spell "indicative" correctly! Maybe you should try hard work instead of trying to "catch a break"!

indepententjoan, I believe MK Trash got his/her point across very well. Please tell me why anyone who disagrees with you people are accused of not working? There is no excuse for the rudeness Wilson displayed, even those in his own party were shocked, YOU should be shocked and dismayed, instead of correcting a person's spelling. When you people have no valid argument, it seems you sink to making personal, inane attacks which are completely off subject.

Nobody remembers when bush was boo'd do they? I didn't think so. Funny how arrogance leads to selective memory loss.

Clinton was booed, too. Now that we've played tit-for-tat, that still does not equal the disrespect shown by shouting out "You lie!" during the President's speech in that forum. Not only is it against the basic rules of politeness and intelligent discourse, it happens to be against the rules of the House. So, either way, he was just plain wrong!

I'm with you bigeasyluv. Yes, Bush was heckeled and booed when he pointed out that social security wouldn't cover future retirees. Clinton was heckeled and booed when he talked about the deficit. In both cases, nobody came right out and accused them of lying. I think our Congressional Branch could benefit from some British "frankness", however, there is still a point where your actions are just plain rude and that line was crossed. Not sure there are any Congressional rules against accusing people of lying though.

It appears to me that most republicans are owned by one company or another to pass legislation that will help fill their corporate coffers. Abraham Lincoln is probably spinning in his grave because of what his party is doing and the way it's party members are acting today.

_____________________________________________________________________

"With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds.... "

Greg M.-769618; Wow Greg! Awesome Post!! Thank you.

The GOP & Neocons middle name is, Malice. The have no scruples. And the Libertarians want to do as they please WithOut any Regard to consequences, or the Rights of Others. The Constitution I beleive are the principles of which our forefathers created for us (future generations) to build on, and the Freedom for future generations to build on as they (we) see fit. It has to fit within the context of present day.

Yes, his actions go against what republicans stand for. However, you take any kind-hearted, gentle man (from anywhere), and he will have his breaking point. I don't condone his action but his comment, rude as it may be, was completely correct. If you disagree, look at the state of California's budget and consensus. Waaay to much spending in the Welfare and other Human Resources areas than what would be necessary for the numbers showing how many people are actually registered with the state and federal governments.

You make it sound as if the President is superior to Congress. The three branches of the American federal government are EQUAL: the President is not entitled to deference from an equal.

While Obama might personally not support health care for illegals, the bill that the House of Representatives wrote - the one that has been the subject of so much ire at town hall meetings - can certainly be interpreted as giving health care to illegals.

Yes, there are three branches of government and rules govern each one. The House rules call for deference in that setting. Therefore, the President was, in fact, entitled to deference.

When an illegal alien goes to the doctor, who do you think pays for that? You, me, our neighbors, everyone. I don't think that people here illegally should be given all of the rights and benefits of citizens, but I don't think they should be left to die either.

At some point, we have got to stop thinking of this in terms of money, and start thinking in terms of what's right. My God! When did America become incapable of empathy?! We have to find a middle ground on this.

If I were here illegally, perhaps escaping the drug wars in Mexico, or the fighting in Dafur, I'd hate to know that people in this country would rather see me die than find a way to help me live. There's no such thing as doing the right thing anymore. God help us.

It was the repuglicans who wanted to allow all illegals to become citizens......so they would hopefully vote for repuglicans. It was the repuglicans who wanted to pay $600 for my vote.......didn't work, didn't vote for Bush 3.0. It was the repuglicans who started the bailouts so that their cronies wouldn't lose money and hopefully keep them in power, but when that didn't work they pointed their fingers at the new president and claimed it was all his fault. They booed Clinton whenever he talked about the deficit, yet when he left office we had a budget surplus..........which the Cheney-Bush crime syndicate pissed away by declaring war on Iraq with a pack of lies and running up the largest deficit in history. The repuglicans ran us into the last depression and they did it to us again............hopefully this time it won't take a world war to get us out of it again.

GO GREG GO!

Greg and Teri - yes and yes. Wilson' unevolved blurt aside, I think the 'enemy' here is neither the Repubs NOR the Dems but THE FEDERAL RESERVE! The Chairman of the FED has more power than ANY single politician, including the President (any president). The FED is directly responsible for the continuing bailouts of badly run companies which are not being permitted to fail. While being propped up by our tax dollars, the FED simply prints more money. This is insane, contrary to all known economic basics willy nilly by this cabal. It's insane and must be stopped. Our nation has been bled dry of our $$$ and by the trillions lost to the war along with the loss of America's most precious asset - our kids in the service. I don't know the answer and this involves machinations way beyond MY ken, but the Fed needs to be stopped. The Fed is worse than DeBeers, in the way they control the market. The blood diamond market is equally as vile as the Blood Market created by the Cabal we know as the Federal Reserve.

To use a medical comparison: the evisceration of our economy by Ben Bernanke and Co., is a virulent and rapidly growing malignancy inside the body of this fine nation. Sadly, our national "immune response" is being diverted by 'impostor threats' like Wilson's oral stupidity raucous town meetings, Serene Williams and verbal gaffes by politicians in BOTH parties. While posts to this thread alone number +1000, our national body continues to quietly exanguinate courtesy of the FED.

Wilson et. al represent pesky, but mild and transient viruses whose effects, while attention getting, are self-limiting. Whereas THE FED is our nation's LIFE THREATENING CANCER, sadly and astonishingly, no one has called the surgeon to remove the lethal malignancy. National Death is imminent without drastic intervention. The treatment? After debulking the Tumor of the FED, the surgeons need to cauterize ALL the blood vessels which supply the tumor with oxygen. Then the body must be flooded with such strong chemotherapy that the body is brought to the brink of death (which means we must STOP the BAILOUTS which will allow badly run outfits to fail), just like you and I fail when we stop being productive. CANCER spreads and then kills the body and some cancers are so quiet we don't even know of their presence until our body (our nation's economy) is so overcome by the tumor (the Fed) that any chance of cure becomes impossible and life becomes nothing but a death watch.

treatment.

There are five different versions of legislation out there. Which one are you referring to?

If you are referring to HR 3200, Section 246 says the following:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

acgrout - your efforts to educate this guy is futile because he can't read either.

well put

ac, you are absolutely correct about the not paying for undocumented aliens. The only problem is that under the House version of the bill the medical facilities cannot ask for proof of citizenship. Without the power to document the individuals you have just given coverage to anybody walking through the door, making Sec 246 a wasted section of paper.

I have to agree with the wrong one. Based the the 14th Amendment as ratified to its current interpretation ALL people residing in the United States are covered under the laws and bi-laws of the land.

This is why illegals and non-Americans can get free eduction, free health care, housing, interpreters, etc ... the list goes on.

Those who follow Obama's plan know this ... those who don't should! I have llittle doubt that as soon as there is any discrimination shown towards a particular group you will have the civil liberties, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and all the other guys scream racial profiling and the 14th Amendment will take presidence.

You want to see real change in America ... then look into the 14th, Amendment and several others and see how they have been changed which brought about much of the mess that we are in today. These Amendements need to be restored to their original meaning. We have to stop allowing special interests, Federal agencies to dictate where this country came from and where it is going.

this is absolutely not true!!! if coverage under health reform is linked to social security numbers, then that is all the documentation that will be needed to prevent illegal aliens from using it, and hospital employees will not be placed in the position of acting as the ins. this does work. it is how medicare is provided, and keeps illegal aliens from using this. if people were less busy hating president obama, they would already know this, and know that not only is wilson an uncouth racist, he is also the liar.

Has anyone else figured out how 59% of the illegals in this country HAVE health insurance?

How often do we find Illegals Using Other people's Social? Every Day! I've pulled people off the list and off the road sometimes 20 times a day with "Bought" social #'s, so "Security" has no meaning as far as "Verification" is concerned. It's just another slip and work around so social programs can be used to support Illegals so the votes can be bought, and calling people "Haters" and "Racists" because they don't agree with you is going to backfire so badly it'll make your head spin. Over half the people responding here are using terms they don't understand and most can't even spell like they're experts, but the truth is you're throwing around things that can bite you folks-read, watch, and pay attention. President or not, his Manchurian Candidate time is closing, so Pelosi and the crew have little time left to ruin this country-they have to push all thier programs thru before next year's elections take away the opportunity for permanent destruction. That's why the big push, so sit back and watch-Then cry. Personally, i'll be watching the terrorists rebuild while we abandon the fight. Once they get here, have fun-Veterans like me, accused by Pundits, lame liberals and unknowledgeable idiots of "Domestic Terrorism" with no cause for such accusations, Won't defent thier lib selves from the fruits of thier labors. Enjoy it. Suck on it, and drain the blood while you can.

this country will survive your departure.

Has anyone else figured out how 59% of the illegals in this country HAVE health insurance?

Dollvintage,

are you asking to infer that there is something wrong with illegals having health insurance even if they are paying for it out of pocket?

SSGDave,

you're a veteran so it's in your interest to seek a plan that can provide you with better health care insurance as well. to your point on illegals using false documentation to gain access to social services i'll ask this question; do we stop making mortgage loans simply because of identity theft? so, according to your logic, because there are illegals that are criminals, honest US residents are supposed to deprive ourselves of the benefits that WE rightfully deserve. i'm all for protecting my rights...and dealing with illegal resident issues too, however; i'm not going to deprive myself of my own liberties because others may find a way to cheat the system. what you're suggesting is contrary; it sounds like you propose nothing for anyone...until we figure out how to keep everything to ourselves. by that model, we'll ALL end up with nothing...forever.

and as it goes on fighting terrorism, that work still continues and it's certainly got nothing to do with the Health Care Insurance Reform proposal. are you inferring that because this work is being done, that that effort has been compromised somehow?

The President and the members of Congress are EQUALS - the President is not entitled to be treated any differently by a member of Congress than other members of Congress. Maybe if Presidents and congresscritters started being more openly honest with each other - to each other's faces - things would start to actually get done in Washington.

Learn that at your local bar?

They were appropriate.

She's retarded

More annoying were the indignant looks made by Madam Pelosi

LOL I thought she was going to swallow her tongue.

And as hypocrites (Pilosi) go, while she tells us to drive electrics and hybrids, she puts her butt in a FST SUV (think Suburban only upscale).

Pelosi as did many I sure, had the same reaction. Quite appropriate!

GW Bush was the elected president as well, and neither the Democratic party nor the media gave him any respect. Unfortunately there's an "us vs them" attitude when it comes to political discussions. It would be great if we could all discuss these issues without using terms like "Repug" and "Democrap" but most of us (myself included) are blinded by party-lines. I voted for Obama, however I have a bad feeling that I may have voted for the wrong candidate. His policies have proven to be un-American, and he may or may not be a legal citizen of this country. That is my issue.

The issue against Geaorge Bush was that a fat filmmaker was pissed off about something that he read in his Hollywood Gazette and so he made a film full of lies to "prove" what a creep Bush was. Never did I hear any "facts" condemning George Bush, only lies and slander spread by haters and the media. If this is a war for oil, then why am I paying 2.89 per gallon?

After reading posts by IH8OBAMA and DONNA-454628, is there anyone else as worried as I am about the incredibly low level of intelligence, erudation and education that the right wing exhibits. Maybe it's a virus of the mind like intellectual rabies or something.

Skep-Tic, you are right on - we should all be worried. Taking the easy, mindless way out doesn't require thought - you just have to make something up (or adopt someone else's fantacy), add hate, and spew away. Very scary

What's actually scary is watching the liberals spew Thier hate and lack of skills in english. Please finish school before spewing liberal thoughts-at least you'll be able to spell correctly. Thinking is obviously Beyond your skill set.

I don't know why I am still surprised at peoples rude behavior, I work with children everyday, and see their bad behavior, then ask myself, "Don't their parents teach them any manners or respect"? I guess not, especially after hearing the congressman being so rude. You want to diagree with the POTUS, fine do so, but when the POTUS was speaking to a joint session of the congress, NO!!!! Wrong forum! I am a independent, I did not vote for Mr. Obama, and did not vote for Mr. Bush ( in the previous elections), but did not think it was right when the Dixie Chicks were running down Mr. Bush a few years ago, when they were in England. It is a good thing we are not facing an enemy like Hitler, based on the way this country acts now, we would have lost the war

I'm with you, Pat. I voted for neither man, but my generation learned to show respect to whom respect was due. I wanted to go to a Town Hall Meeting held by the representative from my district, but I was concerned that a bunch of rabble rousers would disrupt the occasion (they came and tried to) and I just didn't feel up to being pushed around by such crude people. As a person to whom respect is due (teachers especially are due respect), I don't know how you are able to teach the children of such people anything. I couldn't. Small wonder education in our country is a problem.

False, the legislation includes language to prevent coverage of non-US citizens. What was turned down was a draconian proof of ID clause. So as I understand it Republicans would be happy if everyone had to produce a citizenship card for health coverage, and show no proof of anything to buy a gun. Sick it you ask me!!!

If they aren't allowed to ask, how would anyone know they were here illegally?

isn't it interesting how we stick on the issue of whether or not illegals will have access to coverage as a focal point of the President's plan for universal health care. damned if nearly every red-blooded American here doesn't have family with heritage that starts somewhere with an illegal. for all of the irish, italian, scottish, german, chinese, african or whatever else you have in your history, don't forget where you're from...American. all the up-roar and scoffing people are doing about pointing to this issue as a reason to not move forward with a better health care system is truely ironic. i'd be interested to know if you'd have your illegal great-grandparent turned away for a treatment if they could have been served by someone willing and able to help them under a system modeled somewhere near this ideal. seriously, that can't be a real reason not to move forward, because to deny someone in this country, solely based on that principle, is true Hypocrisy. some of you seem to think that illegal means that a person just hopped a fence at the Tex-Mex border.

The question is WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE OUTBURST? The content of either gentleman's statement(s) is not the problem here, it's the manner of expression. Mr. Wilson's manner of expression diminished and embarrassed each and every citizen of these United States of America!

In their fantasy country Amerika, patriot1953 and still waiting 1331221 would like to see your papers please.

He was talking about his proposed program which is not what most of you are ranting about

I work for Medical Assistance programs and we do not give free healthcare to illegals.

Of course it's not FREE. The taxpayers are paying for them!

Any hospital emergency room is prohibited by law to turn away anyone due to the lack of insurance. Pres. Obama lied and its a about time someone called him on it in away that people heard about it.

I think it took a brave man who showed more concern for America and its citizenry than his own career. I wish there were more like him in our elected officials who promised to be our voice, to speak up for us, this is the reason why we elected them in the first place.

But that is not the point. Will he be throwing shoes next? How about challenging Obama to a duel. This is not about whether there a lie or not, its about whether a president can make a speech without being interrupted as he would be IN A THIRD WORLD NATION. Its about CIVILITY. Its about respecting the office of the president. How would it be if Obama had said back"Hey Charlie shove it up your a** - I'm talking and I dont give a Sh*t what you think anyway". Our leaders must treat each other with respect - why is this a hard concept?

How can you lie about something that is already in place? If they are covered it wasn't the President that made it happen before he became President. So how can you call him a liar?

Hospitals cannot refuse emergency treatment, that's true. But that is not a "covered" service. It is not paid for, the patient will be responsible for payment. Most simply won't pay it, and you can't get blood out of a turnip. That means the hospital generally will write it off eventually, but will try to collect, turning it over to collections, etc. So how do you figure that means that it's a lie that illegals will be covered? Noone said that they would be refused treatment in an emergency situation, it will just not be covered under any plan.

"They will get health care because it is a law right now that no hospital can refuse emergency treatment. Even though it may not be in the current bill it already has a law that covers it. They will receive health care."

The key word here is "emergency". All health care does not qualify as "emergency" treatment. And it's NOT free. If a patient does not have insurance, they receive a bill from the ER and all physicians involved in the ER care. Usually a bill that even someone with a six-figure salary would have a hard time paying, if they didn't have any insurance.

ER personnel will do whatever is necessary to stabilize a patient. Then the patient is either released from the hospital, or, more often, referred elsewhere into the health system for surgery or additional treatment. If someone has a heart attack, the vast majority of their treatment is not received in the ER. Nor someone diagnosed with cancer, or any other disease or disorder. And the patient is obligated to pay for every bit of that treatment - room, board, tests, surgery, anesthesia, medications, labwork, consultations, etc. The provider (hospital/doctor) very often will discount the bill, but there remains a huge balance for the patient's family to pay - very often into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

This is not a few hospitals, but virtually every hospital in the United States. They do a wonderful job. But someone has to pay the bills. I sincerely hope that you and your family are fortunate enough to have insurance and good health. But many of our fellow Americans do not.

His next step if this is passed is to grant immunity to the illegals so they can get coverage. We as americans should respect the office of the President but we do not have to respect the current lying individual occupying that office. he has disgraced the office by his many actions degrading the United States of America

Openmind - Thank you SO MUCH for explaining the truth behind the 'myth' that the uninsured can just show up at any emergency room and be treated for free. I'm an uninsured rare cancer patient who worked and paid taxes until last year when I lost my job and insurance 2 days after I returned home from the hospital. No COBRA, disability disqualifies me from medicaid, and medicare mandates a 24 month waiting period for everyone on disability before they are covered (only exception is end stage renal failure and ALS). I've posted my story in detail hoping to open some eyes to the fact that the uninsured are not all 'lazy, alcoholic, druggie, illegal aliens' - to no avail. In repeating your explanation about emergency rooms, I thank you again!

The key word here is "emergency". All health care does not qualify as "emergency" treatment. And it's NOT free. If a patient does not have insurance, they receive a bill from the ER and all physicians involved in the ER care. Usually a bill that even someone with a six-figure salary would have a hard time paying, if they didn't have any insurance.

ER personnel will do whatever is necessary to stabilize a patient. Then the patient is either released from the hospital, or, more often, referred elsewhere into the health system for surgery or additional treatment. If someone has a heart attack, the vast majority of their treatment is not received in the ER. Nor someone diagnosed with cancer, or any other disease or disorder. And the patient is obligated to pay for every bit of that treatment - room, board, tests, surgery, anesthesia, medications, labwork, consultations, etc. The provider (hospital/doctor) very often will discount the bill, but there remains a huge balance for the patient's family to pay - very often into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

This is not a few hospitals, but virtually every hospital in the United States. They do a wonderful job. But someone has to pay the bills. I sincerely hope that you and your family are fortunate enough to have insurance and good health. But many of our fellow Americans do not.

His next step if this is passed is to grant immunity to the illegals so they can get coverage. We as americans should respect the office of the President but we do not have to respect the current lying individual occupying that office. he has disgraced the office by his many actions degrading the United States of America

GL Houston TX

I'm absolutely astounded by the level of intelligence absent from that comment!

He apologized immediately and it was accepted.

He was TOLD to apologize by senior Republican leaders. He wasn't sorry he did it and has never said that he was sorry.

Yes, He ALREADY APOLOGISED-Pelosi Deserves None, nor alcohol joe and the rest who whine can deal with it or cry. HE DID THE RIGHT THING. UNlike the whiners who have to have more, no matter how much is given. Sound familiar, Vets?

Sometimes, We all lose control of our emotions-just look at the garbage spewing from the rep-haters! calling republicans everything from disloyal to haters to racists and a LOT worse-and it Truly Offends people that Most of these individuals have no clue about. I Truly Doubt some of the garbage rhetoric would come out if they had to say this face to face-thier mouths would be writing checks thier bodies couldn't cash, to put it politely-lol. Hint, hint?

Wilson was out of order, he obviously felt very strongly on the subject (knowing that he just read the healthcare bill and knew the president was lying) and didn't show self-restraint, but to take it any further than that is ridiclous. How many of you lack self restaint?

I believe it is called frustration with a locked up congress, no give by the power people. I think he is wrong just like many Dems are wrong in the their actions. Do you agree with the president who appoints a communist to the administration? I quess you won't will you. No guts no glory.

We could show respect if we were given respect, I believe he accused dissenters of using scare tactics, lies and other degrading remarks for those who do not support bigger government intrusion into health care. Why does he, Pelosi and Reid ignore the desire of the majority of Americans! Why won't they care about the majority! I bet they find a way to deny or degrade the marchers on DC on Saturday!

Excuse me? How did the losing side in the last election suddenly become the "majority"???

Misinformation is NOT facts, my friends!!!

charles the marchers on saturday are a bunch of idiots that feel they represent the american people....they dont!Scare tactics from the right is nothing new thats how they stayed in power for 8 years.in case you forgot it was said that the dems were weak on protecting the united states and would not go to war to defend us.then it was give the poor people a break so they (republicans ) cut the taxes for the rich because that way they might hire more people.oh and dont raise taxes on oil they will just raise the price of gas...scxrewed uo thinking

What ever happend to the President of the USA standing up for what is right. OBAMA left all of us out in the cold. He himself will not be under this health care, SOOOOO why not. BECAUSE it is not good.

The "majority of Americans"??

So many on the Right have no idea what they're talking about- spout nonsense to attempt to 'win' an argument and accuse a great President (history will judge him so) of anything and everything to excuse such bad behavior. In fact only once in the history of Presidential speeches has a member of Congress shouted "liar". It is unbelievable that in the year 2009 that this type of Republican incivility exists at all, but to think that the outburst was by a grown man and an elected official was nothing if not reflective of the classlessness that consumes their regional Party constituency at the moment.

Even as W took our kids into bloody War for no reason but whim, Democrats- myself included- never stooped to the behavior of these tea-baggers and Town Hall attendees. There were protests and our frustration was palpable and caught in our throats and sure we muttered foul names for Bush, but when did you ever see this yelling and Nazi talk, and "liar", and foul, racist attitude and promise of violenc.

Even during the campaign until today it is always Republicans that exhibit this aggressive, angry, nasty stuff. Look at the McCain/Palin crowds and the foul exhibition of infantile, classless and even dangerous behavior. I attended almost every Barack and Micelle Rally and it was civil, positive, enthusiastic and hopeful- what a difference!

And today we have Right-Wingers toting weapons to meetings. Meetings w/ families and children present. It is insanity.

The "Majority of Americans" want the President to succeed in making our nation better, stronger, safer and more stable. The Majority would like better and more fair Insurance for everyone. The Majority would love to see this Administration succeed in getting decent health-care to the millions that suffer from NOT having any- especially the innocent kids. That's what the "MAJORITY" WANT.

Social Security IS the gov't. Medicare IS the gov't. Medicaid IS the gov't. The VA IS the gov't. Insurance companies that gouge, and deny coverage and cheat patients need some healthy intervention to get the system back to fairness for all Americans.

If they had kept it fair and the profit motive hadn't gotten obscene than we'd all be fine and the Gov't wouldnt need to adopt any regulations- exactly as most Republican fat-cats and their wealthy benefactors continue to campaign for...nothing. Let the millions of Americans suffer and their children too, why?- because YOUR health-care is fine and YOUR pockets are lined we United Healthcare money.....

Please don't speak for the "Majority" and stop your incessant whining about being called "dissenters, using scare tactics, lies and degrading remarks"...when that is exactly what you and your Republican bretheren are doing....again. Even your Congressmen are getting into the act.

Scott, I couldn't agree with you more. The level of craziness many are exhibiting is troubling. What is wrong with these people? Do they think their anger and insanity will change anyone's mind? Not mine, not a chance. They just make my case stronger. No wonder the Republican Party membership is dwindling so dramatically. Lies, Fear, Hate are not family values.

Thanks to MSNBC and to David for asking the right questions and trying to get some answers from the Republican base. They can never just answer the question.

Joe Wilson's comment was absolutely disrespectful and he clearly went in with a closed mind. How short sighted and unfortunate. How can anything be resolved when they are just out to get the President and to derail any agenda he might have?

Call Joe Wilson now, tomorrow, and indefinitely until his resignation is on the speakers desk.

Fax:
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They should give him a Medal

Scott - maybe you should check YOUR facts before spouting off. The latest Gallup poll shows that more Americans DON'T want healthcare reform than those that DO. FACT. So your statement that the majority of Americans want it is a simple falsehood.

You are correct that "Social Security IS the gov't. Medicare IS the gov't. Medicaid IS the gov't. The VA IS the gov't." And each and every one of them is failing us miserably. SS is teetering on bankruptcy; Medicare and Medicaid don't cover costs today, and the President wants to reduce reimbursements even further; The VA's quality control has been shown time and again to be abysmal. So, yeah - keep lauding these 'government successes' - it just proves the point that the 'public option' is a really really bad idea.

Was Wilson wrong? Absolutely - respect for the office of president is called for in such a forum. I won't make excuses for him - he was flat wrong. But while I respect the OFFICE of the president, the MAN must earn my respect - and Mr. Obama has not done that. He promised 'change that we can believe in' - we're seeing change, but it's hard to believe in it when he's already spent a trillion dollars, the healthcare bill (according to the CBO) will cost a trillion more (where's the budget neutral requirement, really?), and they've been talking about a SECOND stimulus.

GWB was an idiot, and ran this country into the ground. Mr. Obama isn't any better, he's just using different tactics.

Scott - EXCELLENT post. I couldn't agree with you more!!!

So watch dog, are you ready for Big Bother and socialism.... The man is a liar and completely bamboozled the american people with his showmanship. I am a Dem and still think that McCain would have been a better choice, better the enemy that you know....

Ditto exCalifornian! Kudos, Scott,....Nice "spouting off" ;0) !

Larry: The assignment of blame minus the resolve to responsibly work toward viable solutions serves nothing except one's pride.

Collective America is recognizing that there are those citizens among us who have an agenda to fan the flames of contention simply for the sport of it. It's time to attach serious stigma to that ego-centric, self-serving behavior so that we block the paralysis it brings to resolution and progress on behalf of the people of this great country. It is only through genuine, solicitious action that we can persevere as a nation.

Larry... You're quite misinformed. I'm going to quote you now...

maybe you should check YOUR facts before spouting off. The latest Gallup poll shows that more Americans DON'T want healthcare reform than those that DO. FACT. So your statement that the majority of Americans want it is a simple falsehood.

Now, I'm going to disprove what you said....

http://rtgft1.newsvine.com/_news/2009/09/08/3239742-think-progress-new-poll-finds-that-77-percent-of-americans-still-support-the-public-option

See what I did there? I gave you a link to prove what I said. Just because you say the Gallup Poll said it, does'nt make it true. And I don't 'just trust you' to tell the truth.

The Republicans have become the 'Party of Chicken Little'-The sky is NOT falling...

And the 'Boy Who Cried Wolf' (Wilson) is about to get the 'Smack Lain Down on Him'....

IF 'Ya SMEEEEEEEEEEEEEL.....WHAT BARACK!!!!!

IS COOKIN...

RT_36, thank GOD for informatve people like you! Ths ones aganist OUR President are the ones that has a problem with blacks. Thank God our president don't give a @!$%# about what they feel or think, he is doing what's best for all a Americans!!! It is sad that any American feels the same way that some of these fools in this forum do1 I guess none of them have had a loved ill and can not get the best of health care. These are human beings. Most of these full of @!$%# Congressman has animals that gets better care than a lot of uninsured Americans. As for Wilson, that racist Ass, he just showed his true colors. For anyone to shout you lie to the President of the US on national TV is lowest of the trailer park trash. One thing I noticed of our President when that was so arrogantly shouted out, he didn't miss a beat. That was professional and a man that has honor, because he could have been like all the arrogrant fools in this forum and others in America who are haters and shout YOU MOMMY!!!!! All of you haters are need to try and think of a fair plan to help all and leave all the bull@!$%#

DITTO RT! Amen to That Lou! Jesse Jackson I think has as accurately articulated what's really going on.

BTW, Here's an excerpt from (oops).. on google.

"JESSE JACKSON: ...There is a struggle between the hope of going forward and the fear of going backwards and the word – the atmosphere is loaded with coded words. Hitler, socialist, un-American, not born in America, even indoctrinate our children, these are very heavily coded words. And the elephant in the room really is the big ‘C’– behind the big C-word, conservative, for some that means fiscal, for some, it means religious ethics, for some it means a code word for race. And we would do well to try to keep fighting to relieve these [inaudible].