What if we gave up on the American Bison, or the Bald Eagle, or the Humpback Whale? If there is a chance to save a species, then we have an obligation to at least try. Once the Panda is gone, it's permanent.

We have to try! We, humans are why it is going extinct! I guess when he signed up for the job he didn't know what he was going to be doing!

I take it you are not pro-death penalty?

The death penalty applies to those who are NOT innocent (i.e., child killers, serial murderers, etc.). The panda is innocent. There is a big difference and bringing up the issue of the death penalty is irrelevant.

I agree! Animals are innocent beings, even the carnivores! They are just doing what they are "programed" to do...insticts!

As for "programming," humans have programming just like animals, we are inherantly afraid of heights and snake-like objects, across cultures. This point to instinct the same way. True, humans can control their instincts to a greater degree because we have a more adaptive-type body and brain, but we are still bound to our instictual, animalistic origins.

We are all innocent, including humans. We are also 'programmed' to think, act in certain ways. I used to think humans were not innoncent beings, but we are just as innocent as your pet dog.

i completely agree with you michelle, no one is responsible, everyone is driven by chemical processes.

The fact that we are or are not "innocent" is not relevant either, though. The facts are that

The panda IS a symbol for the wildlife conservation effort, and should not, be neglected, for the sake of the cause.

BUT on the other hand, who are we to disrupt the flow of nature by Not pulling the plug on animals that would have died anyway. Death is as big a part of life as our "programming" is.

This board seems surrounded by pathos-hungry people who do no see the real issue. If you want to go all kamekaze and kill of the humans to save the animals, that's fine, but do you realize that when the people are gone, those SAME animals that we are "protecting" will ALSO die out.

We have found a species that is frail, and, in terms of natural rhythm, DUE to die out anyway and is costing us LOTS of money just to keep it ALIVE. In case nobody has noticed, money is something that the world economy is lacking! If we find it to be fact that a species is unfit to inhabit, let alone RE-inhabit any space other than a zoo, then perhaps we let nature take it's due course.

Maybe the panda is NOT that animal we should let go. Naturally it is a great example, of a species that we simply can not save, but it IS the symbol for an organization that has done many wonderful miracles for animals who COULD be saved. For that cause and that cause alone I believe the panda should not be let go, but some animals MAY just be ready to "move on" in the cycle of natural selection into which they all entered.

HELLO DRAGONDO201

in case YOU haven't noticed, WE are the reason Pandas and many other animals are dying out (and have already gone extinct) from the Earth! WE as in people. there's nothing "natural" about it! humans have the capacity to make choices that affect our environment locally and globally. so please, get your head out of u-kno-where.

China!

a no-brainer.... people go, save the panda!

Save him, let the panda go.

Packham states that the Panda can't survive on its own.

Seems that the 'Human species' is having a Hell- of- a- time at this

'species survival' thing as well.

I can see a huge market for novelty fundraising t-shirts Save a panda today shoot a BBC reporter donating $5 from each sale to the WWF and $1 to British Dental Hygiene Care.

AMEN!!! I think this is the best idea yet. Think of what they could do with all that money!! I will buy at least a dozen.

Given the choice, I'd rather have the bears

The shy and reclusive panda is not known to frequent bus stops in rural China. Most people living in the area NEVER see them in the wild, let alone fear for their lives. These are not Grizzlies or Polar bears, they sit around all day eating bamboo and sleeping. Also, I don't think they have bus stops in the mountains of Szechaun. Please check your facts before commenting.

One of the reasons the Panda is almost extinct is because it isnt aggressive as a species....and cant compete with human intervention

nor can it compete with the human ignorance of the highly misinformed

I will cry the day that the only way my children can see the animals of the world is either in a zoo or a book.

stupidity is as stupidity does, pandas are not agressive , check facts before opening mouth.

1. Open mouth

2. Insert foot

dennis, Pandas are not aggressive and are not really bears, they are in the raccoon family, are incredibly shy and only eat bamboo!!

Dennis, Children wait at bus stops every day with worse threats than Pandas would ever be. Rememeber a month ago Jaycee finally got to go home after 18 years of terror and a hell hole for living conditions. God never intended any of this to happen to his good, very good creation; however sin changed the whole picture. Pride and self, it's always the culprit. I hope you take the time to stop and look at your own life and just see how much you're doing for the good of others, whether it human or breast.

Amen to that!

I agree with you completely, but would like to add that, Handicapped Children, mentally and physically handicapped, can survive very well on their own. Many to get jobs, and many live on their own. But they must be given the right tools to thrive. Early intervention is key. 1 dollar spent today on early intervention saves 10.00 in the future.

So the tie in to the Panda's, if we give the Panda's what they need, the right "tools" they'll prosper. We have to remember this wasn't natural selection, Mother Earth didn't decide to rid the world of the Panda's, the Humans did. So "WE" are held responsible to correct the mis-doings of our previous generations. It's just the right thing to do. Right is right wrong is wrong, it's not morally right for us to cause a problem to a different species, and because it's too hard, inconvient or too expensive to fix we decide to forget about it. If we allow this type of thinking then we are choosing to walk a very dangerous moral line. What or should I say who is next?

Doubble Aman to that

About your handicapped person thing: If they can't be productive over the course of their lives or keep themselves alive; let them die.

besides, it is not only the money of people who want to help pandas that is spent on pandas, it is also the money of people who pay taxes to governments who have environmental initiatives that donate to panda preservation. (or to facilities or foundations that then support pandas)

Tyler,

People Like you, are truly what's wrong with this world. Your comment literally makes me sick. It sounds to me like you and Hitler would have gotten along well, your sentiments for the disabled are quite disturbing.

As a mother of a child with Trisomy 21 (Down Syndrome) I can say that I am usually a pretty peacful person, but had we been sitting face to face and had this conversation, and you let that little comment slip, I might be so inclined to react with more then just words. Let us hope you're never faced with a situation where you must make choices regarding someone with disabilities. Maybe a son or daughter, Mother or Father, maybe yourself. If you found yourself in an accident where you're not 100% fully functioning, and maybe needed a little assitance to get by, (But otherwise can live a normal life) would you follow your own advice and kill yourself? Some how I doubt it.

Many of the disabled are no different then other children or adults their age. Just like you go to school to learn to read and write, (survive in the real world) these disabled children learn the same. But they also learn how to live with their disabilities. And as I said before many, many of them do. Who are you to judge the "productivity" of another? My son is still so young that his future is still unknown, but one thing I can tell you, productive or not (by your definition), if you were to look into his loving blue eyes, and see into his kind and gentle soul, could you really take him from me and put him in the trash and let him die? Could you do that to ANY child? Any Human being? Now really think about that... if you say yes, that makes you a really sick person and you should seek help. But more then likely if you're being honest with yourself you wouldn't be able to. I find most people like you have a lot to say when they are sitting in the privacy of their own homes, or sitting at their desks at work. People like you, like to spew hate and start arguments. People like you are cowards. Because when the cards are down, this BS that you claim is your opinion, you would never repeat in a group gathering of your peers. You would never speak up in front of a news camera or start a campaign to end the lives of millions. People like you, want to complain about something, but never truly offer a real solution. If you ask me, its people like you with your empty voices and empty words that are a waste of space. Why don't YOU try being a little more productive. Thanks.

I wouldn't speak up in front of my peers? Thats funny, everyone I know I have told the same thiing if we ever get to a discussion on the subject. When I was in high school I brought the idea forward in theory of knowledge, ethics, and psychology classes. I told my parents too. Now that I am in college, I still believe the same thing and will raise that point if given the opportunity to discuss in any class.

I disagree with Hitler, no one race is better. People shouldn't be killed based on race, or on ability. Only if they cannot support themselves should they be allowed to die, not killed.

As for me killing myself, no I would not, I didnt say that disabled people should kill themselves, just that no one should support them. If I was strong enough to survive, or if anyone else is, more power to them.

As for children, yes, you should support you child until they are old enough to support themselves. if you love them, you can support them as long as you live. At no point does it become anyone other than your responsibility to provide for them. Not the government, not your friends or neighbors. If someone else wants to, they can, but no government should spend money keeping unproductive people alive in society. I was told while in high school that our district spent 10 times as much funding on children with mental retardation as on gifted children. That is pure stupidity. Spending the money on people who might soon become productive or may become productive in the future is much more efficient. or spend it on ill people or homeless people who might one day recontribute to society. And yes, some mentally retarted people do benefit the world. The degree to which they benefit the world is much surpassed by that put forth by an average or above average member of society, especially in terms of cost-benefit ratios. Besides, the money could also go to other people, such as people living in India, where people live in squalor. The money that teaches on retarted child could help a larger prportion of Indians, or for that matter, people from any peoorer country, making it entirely a matter of cost-benefit. It is more efficient to help groups other than the mentally disabled.

if you wanted to compare me to a historical figure or group, pre-Greco golden age sparta would have been more accurate.

I understand you completely dear! I have an 11 yo son with disabilities as well. He was born 9 weeks premature. They gave me a shot 11 weeks prior to deliviery to develope his lungs. They first thought he wouldn't make it at 9 weeks and gave every slim odds of him surviving after birth. He came out screaming and fighting into the world. Well, everything was looking optimistic till week 2. Everything was developed on my son except his intestines. The only thing they had overlooked. The sugar in the formula caused an infection in his intestines killing off most od his bowel. His stomach turned green and purple. He went to childerens hospital for hours of surgery and with myself panicing in the waiting room if he was going to make it. He made it threw that surgery with only 36 cm of bowel felt. This was suppose to be a death sentence. I could only see my son at 15 minutes at a time in the neonatal unit 3 times a day. He was strapped down to the bed. Hands tied down with a life supporting tube down his throat. I couldn't even pick up my own child. We made it threw that. Only thing that was keeping him alive was I.v. fluids called TPN (Total paretnal nutrition) threw his central line. Well he finally go sent to the special care unit. Where we had more visiting time. after a few months they put in a g tube and started him on a special formula. Starting out at 1 cc an hour. Then gradually 2 cc. Went his bowel went to dumping to much we would have to knock back his tubal feedinging and replace the electrlites. Not counting all the blood transfusions. Around 5 months it looked optamistic and in a flash his liver went to shutting down. He turned yellow and cried yellow tears. The transplant team turned him down for a transplant because they thought he wouldn't make it to get a liver and bowel transplant. I was furious. I asked who were you that gets to say who lives and who dies. As I was running out of the room. My sons surgeon from the very beginning. I heard him say. I will make him survive without your transplant. They gave him 6 to 9 months a year to the most. This wonderful man worked so hard on my son. He started pushing the feeds even harder threw his tube. He would begin to dump. he would back off but not like before. He would get the fluids he lost right back in him and start again. It was horriable. My son only knowing pain. Surgery after surgery. 9 in all. All my son did was smile. I even has to watch as his stomach busted open from infection ffrom a surgery and could not close it till the infection was gone. I could see threw the clear bag and see right into his stomach. Well, it was time once again to get into the meeting room with the whole team working on my son. Of course it was always bad news before so I was quite scared. One of the doctors asked doctor georgeson how was his progress. " He looked aroung he room at all of us sitting aat the table and said. "He's going to make it. His liver has rebuilt it's self all but 2 %." dooctor figaroa asked how can that be? Doctor georgeson just threw his hands in the air and said we don't know with a smile on his face. I knew it was a doctor what would go to the ends of the earth to try to save a child. They started calling him the little mirical. After a year and 2 months of being in childrens Hospital. Myself having to go threw R.N. training just to run his machines and mixing his I.v. fluids. Central lines colosty bags and all. My son got to leave for the first time. He was scared to death of this new big outside world. My son after 2 learned to walk considering most of his life was strapped to a bed. He caries two backpacks around with him. One with his I.v. fluids and maching in one. The other backpack with his Feeding machine. He out runs me. He is a few years behind other childeren mentally. Givin tho. He knows he how to clean and prep his central line. He knows if done wrong he will delovlope an infection. So, he would rather do it on his own. He know how to run his machines and so forth. I even got to take him to disney world to ride the rides. If there wasn't that one doctor that decided not to give up. My son would not be here. Don't give up people just because it seems like there is no hope insight.

The surgeon forced his intestines to grow. One day he will have enough bowel to reattach to his rectum.

If he would have got the transplant. The longest they have had someone survive a bowel transplant is 5 years. We are actaully forttunate that he didn't get the transplant. The bowel is the only organ that doesn't have an immunity. There for fail. With as short as his bowel is. He is not suppose to be alive. As for the pandas. You say they can't survive on thier own. If my son can adapt to his condition. Anything is possible

Tyler~

I have to say that I am still amazed at your way of thinking. Do you actually believe what you say? And are you ready to act upon your thoughts? And I mean 100% with zero discrimination? If I'm reading your statement correctly, it appears that your qualm is with ANYONE that can not care for themselves (As an adult) without any time of government assistance, or intervention. Is that about right? Or are you going to be Hitler like in saying only handicapped, (Physically or mentally) people should be made to fend for themselves? The reason I ask is, Imagine an elderly women walking down the street. She has no family, she lives on her own. She's walking because she's too old to drive, but she doesn't mind because she only lives across the street from the store. She goes into the store and buys the little bit of groceries she can afford and manage to carry in her little old arms. She begins her journey back home, only to fall down in front of you, groceries spilling out onto the street. Would you leave her there to fend for herself? After all, isn't it her responsibility to "Be strong enough to survive", And didn't you say At no pointdoes it become any-ones (other than family) to provide for them. Not the government, not friends or neighbors. Or is that a bad example? Perhaps you would feel that she has paid her dues, and "DESERVES" the right to be looked after. So how about a young man, bound to a wheelchair. Paralyzed from the waist down. Making his way to work. Unable to afford the mecanically altered vehicles that are available now for the disabled. He's listening an IPOD, just like you might listen to the radio on your way to work. He begins crossing the street, right there in front of you. He hits a bump in the road, that you in car really don't have to pay attention to. After hitting the rough patch in the road his IPOD falls to the ground. He leans over his chair to get it. Just can't quite reach it. Try as hard as he might, he can't get it. Suddenly his chair tips over, the same time your light turns green. Tell me Tyler, what do you do? Do you get out of your car and help him? Or do you honk your horn at him, annoyed that yet again another Cripple is having trouble fending for him/her self, and may require the help of a stranger?

Maybe yet again these are bad examples and aren't really speaking to the meat and potato's of your suggestion. So we have a child, lets say my child, born with Down Syndrome. He WILL by all accounts have some form of slow brain development, (Retardation, as you put it) the degree in which that will be remains to be seen. But let's say for argument sake that it's severe enough that although he can hold a job, and contribute to state and federal taxes, he's unable to live on his own. So he must stay with his Momma and Daddy. Something neither one of us would mind, he is our son after all. Not to mention how many thriving adults still live with a parent or both well into their adulthood, sometimes until their parent's die. But I digress. We're talking about my "Mentally Retarded" son, living at home, he works and has bills, pays taxes. Until one day when his parent's are dead. The life insurance policies help put him in a facility, so he can still be helped. (I assume you would be okay with that since the Money came from his parent's) But let's say the money runs out. Happens all the time. Happens to people like you, people like me, not just the handicapped. But we're talking about the handicapped right. So my son has no more money, he's still able to work, but just can't quite manage living on his own. What should happen to him Tyler? Because he can't fulfil his own survival, he should be left to die on the street? Never mind that he is a person. A man just like you. A human being like all of us. A victim of horrible circumstances. But too bad for him right? It's not your job or anyones job to care. Wait, you didn't say care, you said help. So we can care, but shouldn't help these people that can't help themselves.

People like you are so jaded. And are so pathetic. People like you want to talk about the human plight, and tell the rest of us why we should give up the effort to help our fellow man. Well Tyler, if you're going to say half way, might as well go 100% as I said. You mentioned helping the homeless, or ill. That's a hypocritical statement if I ever heard one. Let's stop funding Cures for Cancer, for HIV, for the FLU, for all the diseases the whole world over. Survival of the fittest right? People with cancer's and other deadly disease have been selected by nature to die. They too are victim's of circumstances. Just like the mentally and physically disabled. No one chooses to be the bearer of these conditions. But let them all be ALLOWED to die. And let us stop wasting money and resources. We CAN NOT be prejudice on human survival... Or can we? Is that what your statement is all about. You can't stand to afford any sort of help for people BORN with disabilities, (If they ever need your support), but you'll justify people who acquire a disease, and may require support from various organizations. And why would you? Could it be perhaps because you yourself may fall victim to something in your life that may require help? The only difference is between the two is one is born with a life time struggle, whereas the other, is allowed to live to some degree of a normal life, and then must learn to pick up the burden and learn to struggle.

Really think about it Tyler. We're here a human beings, and the only reason we've gotten as far as we have in this life is because part of being a human, is being humane to others. You're a sad and pathetic example of a human being, and my only wish for you, is that you can evolve your own mind, and begin to empathize with your fellow man. I'm sorry to say that the way your mind is working now, and how you feel about your fellow man; you may be surprised what happens when your that old man walking across the street with his groceries, and you fall down and break your hip, only to have someone like you are now, drive by you laughing. If nothing else please learn, Karma is a b*tch.

I understand karma, and I do see where you are coming from. Yes, I would help the older woman and the man in the wheelchair. I don't think helping the disabled should come from the government. I plan on donating to facilities to help the disabled as soon as I get a job out of college and have money to spare. It's only when the government uses tax dollars to do so does it bother me. I was thinking more of government programs to help people or spend money on individuals who do nothing to contribute.

As for the person with down syndrome. Why not help him? If he can work a job then he can pay back his cost. I see nothing wrong with an individual helping him, my issue is more with the government paying to help him. If an individual help him then that is their decision. If the government does, then people are forced to pay for something they did not cause.

Also, I have advocated not curing disease, only ensuring that a small portion of the population is immunized to prevent extinction. But, the cures for these diseases are paid for by the recipients, meaning they were fit enough to make enough money to do so. if they have the treatments subsidized by the government, I disagree with in, except as a measure to prevent epidemics. I have nothing against a foundation or optional charity helping diseased or disabled people. I really am focused on the government. If someone creates a cure to a disease, then they will be more likely to advance science to a point where ALL disease, even those that are genetic, can be prevented or cured.

If someone drove by me laughing, I would be p*ssed, but I would not begrudge them the right to do so. I do help people if I can, I just dont like the idea of a goverment forcing me to by making me pay taxes to help these people.

*new keyboard, sorry about the misspells

Have you not heard of saint jude hospitals. Purely runs off donations. How many childerns hospital donation boxes do you see out. Or the art they put in the hospital for people to by for a cause. You and your cures. How to you think they are able to advance. These so called pathetic humans! Pretty much what you are saying. These are the people that will take risky proceders to help in devolpment in cures. They are you're so called guinee pigs that save your sorry tuss. Most don't have a choice but to be the lab rats. A lot do it because they just don't want others to suffer as they do. Weather they live or die as long as it gets them closer to cures. A lot of this research doesn't come from your pocket. It comes from indiviuals donating to a cause. If it wasn't for the ones donating either thier money or thier bodies for these cures. You wouldn't have a paycheck. Right now your paycheck is paying for oil reserves, wars, Fat politicans, so forth. One day you will eat these words. Maybe my son will be your doctor. Just because he's just a couple of years behind others doesn't mean it matters as an adult. At the mind of 20 that just means a mind of an 18 year old. Get a life before it is you that dies alone at your beside because of who you are. My grandmother always told me. "Your reputation doesn't just follow you to your grave. It follows you beyond your grave." Another words they'll still be talking about you when your gone. i could just imagine what they would say about you! he/she was worthless. That's what you are saying about the rest.

Tyler-1362686 How are you in college? Maybe, a scholorship? Grant? Who paid for it. If it's a grant. You have to pay it back. Scholorship your home free. What if you fail at what you are taking. govenment crashes and you have no job. Where did the money come from?????? don't make up a lie to cover your butt. Maybe you should become a funeral director. I just can't see you working with the living. Only the dead would keep thier lips sealed. Then again. You don't even have the heart for that job. Wait a minute. Are you studing to be a politician???? giggles!!!!

Caroline-559057 My heart and love goes out to you and your family. If you need help. I offer a little help. I have 20 dollars to spare. Your child is a gift and nothing less.

Caroline-559057 If you don't need it for yourself. Donate it to whatever you like.

Yes, and I just stated that I have no problems with anything funded by money that people choose Personally to donate. I'm not talking about lab rats, I was referring to advancements by scientists.

some of that Paycheck does go to, yep, you guessed it, charities, schooling, and other benefits for people who are unlikely to ever pay the money back, but yes it going to politicians and wars is debatably a bad thing too, but not the point of this argument. As for oil reserves...if you use plastic, cars, electricity, or eat food/drink water in a country that is even semi-developed, then you should like the oil reserves. Your modern-style life depends on them, barring a within-the-last-3-second-technological breakthrough.

You have no idea what people will say of me when I die.

You realize people can:

A-pay their way through college?

B-Have college paid for by parents?

But no, I wont lie to you. I am recieving a state-funded scholarship. The reason I see less problem with these scholarships is that I, and other people receiving them, are much more likely to one day be productive and pay back the debt to society than a mentally disabled child, especially in term of cost:benefit ratio. It costs more to educate a disabled child, but they will be less productive throughout their lives, on average. Hmm, seems like simple math to me. If the extra money was lying around, go for it, spend money on every pet project; this is a zero-sum game, money is finite, we should spend money on the things that bring the most benefit per cost. Yes, I may fail my classes(I won't). For the sake of argument, let's assume that I will fail. OK, but I am less likely to fail statistically, and a failure will cost the state less than a disabled child who the state funds education for until they reach the same equivalency level I am at, if at all possible within a reasonable life span.

A child who will always be two years behind would be a very goo investment. the cost would not be much higher to teach them than any other child, and they would still perform, theoretically, at the same output levels minus 2 years. this means they will effectively contribute to society. I see no issue in funding their education as the public funds a majority of student's educations.

Nope, not going to be a politician. I hope my sister will. She believes the same things I do. She isn't vocal about them. Scary Thought for you, huh?

Caroline-calling me jaded and pathetic? really? I am not particularly scarred by life's circumstances, and am not the type of person most would see as pitiable. I more pity this false sense of worth most people seem to think they and everything they do has. i pity the "humanity" that you cling to, a trivial, misbegotten concept. Get a dose of existentialism. Get a sense of proportionality.

Tyler-1362686 Your first mistake! Said quote "I'm not talking about lab rats, I was referring to advancements by scientists." unquote. This is advancement towards science. Your so called lab rats! This is how cures are made by either desperate people that have no other choices to but take risk in trials. The others that contibute doesn't care weather they live or die. Just wanting to keep others from suffering the same ill fate. Science needs these heartfelt people to come up with cures of your so called dead weights of sociaty. As far as your college being more imortant to saving the planet. As you stated above! What about the people that are trying to become doctors. It saves lives. Thier science comes up with the cures. Slowly but it does come around. Studing handcapped children now gives us advancement toward finging the defects in these childeren and to come up with cures to the children of the future. By studing them. They will soon be able to figure out what the problem is. Thus, finding the cure for these childeren and by gentics factors from birth. (which will come down to treating childeren in the wombs before neurological defects. Taking control of developement) Childeren that wasn't born with birth defects nor adults. That set in on them later in life. There was something that caused these defects. By studing these defects and the causes. What lead to this? What is it effecting? Pin pointing the cause besides just treating the symptoms. Most diseases are unknown M.S. Multi organ system failure. They no not the causes yet. Givin time. They will find the answer. They are trying to save the world. a lot of things in the past were uncurable and they didn't know where to start. They are curable now. Scalet fever, The black palague. Certain cancers are completely curable that was once a death wish ect.I could do this all day. Transplants for organ failures. The brain being the heart and soul to your body. Nothing happens without our brains to tell it so. Your breathing, your heart beat, Movents of the body. You feel pain in your stomach because the nerves connected to the brain. It sents information to the nerves at to the brain letting you know something is wrong. The brain lets you know these is pain. The brain is the most complex organ. They will be able to find ways to perfect proceders in the future and isn't so risky and could save many of people ill fate but that is a work in progress. The brain .It more complex. You kill the brain. everthing else dies with it. Are doctors worthless because they are trying and have succeded at cures??? You and your oil reserves. Sucking the planet. It's natural resource. Everything has a delicate process. It's like taking out It's appendicts. The metals. Taking sand to make glasses for houses and cars. Mining for diamond and other rare gems. for what!!! cutting down trees to make yourself 2 or 3 homes, mulitple cars. mining for coal. it's like going into a doctors office for the planet. Hmm well you don't need you appendicts. Well, now we have to remove your heart. We can't replace it. So your dead. We have to remove your liver because we need it and we don't have another to replace yours. The planet thrives as we do. We are delicate and so is it. Your killing your home. What good is as you called modern living if you keep the one thing that is keeping us alive. Oil!!!! You know if you cut down on usless trips that use oil just to amuse yourself. Buying, thing you realy don't need. Thing you store up in the closet just because. Buying things just to impress others. Instead of keeping your t.v. running and the lights on. Why not go outside for an hour a night leaving all these energy draining sources off.This includes the day. Go look at the stars at night. Take a hike. Go to bed an hour earlier to save power. Cut down on t.v.s all threw your house. The water you drink.. hehe. Most places have recycling plants. The wastful water you throw down your sinks with chemicals. Landry as well. your bathwater and yes!!! What comes from the toilet. Tampons!! Drugs!!! Puke!!! Cigaretts. I don't really want to know the rest. People with diseases use the toilet. this is what your water treatment plants are recycling. Read how dangerous your water truely is. Why not try eco friendly detergents. Why not cut back on electrity. Gas. They are trying to find ways to save the enviroment. Designing cars that doesn't run off yyour precious oil. looking for safer enery for the enviroment. look around you at everything you buy these products trying to become greener. Making cars smaller to use less gas. It shows it's a work in progress. We will have cars that don't need your oil. How about going out and getting a car that doesn't suck up 40 dollars or more a in gas. 12 miles to a gallon. Why not a car that I have that use 48 miles to a gallon till they find a way to come up with more efficiant cars. My car brand new was $9,500 brand new. compared to 36 thousand and up on bulky cars and truck that cost a furtune. You're goverment that is supose to fund thing as you call it. Fema is a goverment funded opperation. Then when katrina victums stayed in that filth did the goverment wait 5 days to do anything. Innocent childeren. People in nursing homes got abandoned. Innocent people. Even the ones that didn't have enough since to get out. They let a lot of those people die. The goverment is suppose to look after the ones that can't look aftre thierselves. THEY WAITED 5 days. How many donations went to fema. NOT YOUR CHECK. GRRR!!! The donation for earth quakes, ect. They set up sites for people like us to donate. Get your facts straight. Wars oils fat politican. We have salvation armies. the red cross. down tere doing thier work. People donating trailers. Even thier own houses. How many volentier??? you made a statement about food. I posted this in this forum but guess you didn't read that. A farm consist long summers of growning your and the animals food to store for winter. You don't to to the grocery store and get cattle food. It is grown. Chopped up siloledge. (grown corn cut and chopped into fresh veggies for cattle stored in silos for winter. cutting, raking and baling hay. For them to survive winter. Milking twice a day and 300 head of cattle is time consuming. growning and canning your own food to survive the winter months Planting yourr on veggies. breeding them to repopulate what you have eatten. Plowing fields. I could go on. stores just make your life more conveint. Which means more building. ore distruction to the earth. It scares the crap out of you because you couldn't fend for youself. So kil the eart because you won't learn the basics in life survival. You said. one day be productive and pay back the debt to society than a mentally disabled child. And when the govermnet crashes and you have no job. How will you pay back. You would be the waste of money. As it is proving to be true. You said, B-Have college paid for by parents?. my responce is How many parent can afford to sendthie kids to collage. How many People have that much money that comes out of thier pockets that they can afford. 2% about 7 % can afford for thier children to go to college out of pocket. With loans!!! I had an argument with people that think they know everything. If you want to really make a statement. Do the research first. Because to people like me. You look like a fool. it's like people and the bible. Yes, few have read it. Have a very good argument but most just hear the most famous scripts quoting them and have no clue of what it is truely about. if you want to speak up!!! know the facts!!!If this is simple math to you as you stated. You need to take more advanced chorse in math. Simple math is just a lazy question. You want to give a simple anwer because you are simple. Looking at thing from a more educated. Not counting common sense. which you lack.. Things are more complex than just simple math. no that is your oppinion. As far as your grave. people that think like you do. With no compassion for not even your own kind. You really think they will have compassion for you?

And as far as your sister... Heh. Not scared at all. Honest!!! That just means add another moron to the bunce. She is scared to voice because she knows people won't like it. it's down grading. obtuse. immoral. unethical. selfish and revolting. You family needs serious help! You are hitler.

I think I'll keep my money, and use it to preserve my kids.

I would have to be rolling in money before I spent it saving Pandas. I spend my money on saving humans - wells in Kenya, vaccinations in Malaysia, starving children in Uganda, etc. I would trade a lot of Pandas for one child. That's just my preference.

Neal and Eric, all worthy causes to spend your money on, but don't begudge others trying to save animals who can't aks for help from human interference in their lives (the hinderances, not the helpful interference). Pandas did not ask for humans to cut off their access to each other by developing the land, nor did they ask for humans to cut down their food source, both of which are contributing factors in their endangerment. So pandas don't produce a bazillion babies a year, most large species of animals don't. Does that mean they are all on express train to extinction?

If there were fewer people, the Pandas would be fine. Too many people. Too many religious leaders wanting to increase their flocks, so they encourage people multiplying.

Until we control the population, we will continue running animals out of habitat, ourselves out of resources and food.

DeeToo - population growth is an economic decision more that it is a religious one. Parents in third world countries know they will never save enough money to "retire" so they have large families to ensure someone can take care of them when they grow old. Unlike many firstworld countries where parents and children avoid each other, families in third world countries support each other. Grandparents raise the grandchildren while parents work. With high infant mortality one needs a lot of children to ensure enough become adults. I lived in Asia for 6 years and inviting a friend and his family for dinner meant cooking for 10 or 15 people. The cure for over-population is world wide economic prosperity.

You'd think a species with the intelligence of our own would have sense enough to control our own populations. In doing so we would slow the use of rapidly declining finite resources (like oil and mined products) and ease the strain on forests and agriculture. Most of the world's problems are caused or exacerbated by overpopulation.

For all of the grief he has received over it, George Bush recognized the problem with disparate economies and overpopulation. He understood that national economies have global impacts and that the best thing we can do for the globe is to assist 3rd world countries is developing their economies. Unfortunately, much of the improvement in the economies of third world countries come at the expense of 1st world countries. Countries with strong per capita economies have low birth rates, higher living standards, etc which can be good for the globe. We still need to take care of the planet as we were instructed to in Genesis.

"...The cure for over-population is world wide economic prosperity..."

which does NOT include socialism. Free market, free enterprise, deregulation!

NEALE!!! How can you save the world from us. Talk about your children. Killing this innocent creatures to make room for yours. I guess you don't understand how this works. You kill everything on the planet. There is no planet. If you can kill one thing. You can kill all. Including us. Maybe we should just need to pick which humans should live. That should solve the problem.

You want to make a difference. How about just having one child. If each parent decided to just have one child. 2 parent and one child. It knocks down human population by half and you still get to have a child and we can all thrive together. Make sense people.

"TheMostDestructiveSpeciesMAN" - 1 child per couple makes sense in a purely eco-altruistic model but nobody lives there. Economic demands dictate populations that grow. We spend more than we make so we need a larger tax base all the time. That is why Italy and Ireland for instance, with very low native birthrates, have to encourage high levels of immigration to make up for the growth that is not occuring internally. Without it they could not support their governmental budgets. Until global economics gets in check 1 to replace 2 does not make sense.

Now here is a nother Issue. Why do we think we need the government? So, they can get rich off of tax payers. Why do we have to pay to drive or car every year. (tag) Why property tax. if not paid. They own it. Groceries. Did they grow them??? Nooo. Why do we need baby sitters. To cause wars to steal more from others. They have taken your freedom. even the farmers get taxed on food they eat. If it was a really free world. We would take care of ourselves. Have our own land and remember how strong we are. We my be evolving but diseloving at the same time. Most would not know how to grow and store up for the winter. Enough food for you and the animals that help support a farm. meaninvg working long summers to prepare for winter. Please educate yourselves. They will take care of thierselves before they go down with us. Yes, you can live with just one child.

TheMostDestructiveSpeciesMAN- I'll tell you what-YOU have only one child, hell, have none. I, for one, chose to have three, and then welcomed the oops. If you want to eliminate mankind to save animals, DON'T START NEAR ME, because I tend to be a carnivorous predator, and tree huggers are just targets if they try to step on my rights. Spend your money to save whatever you want, but an evolutionary dead end, such as the cute big panda, does not rate the sympathy that a thriving species would get from me. I can't eat it, it is not particularly pleasant, it's sole saving grace is a cute face, so I choose to save a more useful species.

Another moron that can't understand what is read. I don't care if you have 3 kids now. I was talking about talking with your kids or others about having one child. We are educated enough to know that your kids or grandkids will, if not change will suffer a horrible death because of over population. Cutting this coming up generation in ahalf by one child then the next greneration. It will balance out. Not liking man kind. Your killing mankind and everthing on it because everyone have to have more. There is plenty of room in the world for everything is you concerve the planet. I got an idea. The ozone collapsed and your children burn to death because you didn't educate. As far as you threats I laugh. You are behind a computer. You really have no idea of how you are talking to. which is funny. You better hope you never run across people like me. I love this world. I love my kid. You came at me making threats about either one. It would be you that would find yourself in a bad predicament. I stand for the world that I have made it my whole life work. even in art of distruction of man. I live and let live. Come at me and the whole story changes. II throw rallies of people and animals alike. parades for peoples rights. I have the guts to stand up for others that . Fund raisers. What about you. I'm the faithful dog till you try to beat me then I go for the throat.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a281/Charming_Southern_Belle/Modeling/jonk-14-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Yes this is me and my protest againt man and thier distuction. (even outselves.) Just one thing of many I do. go ahaed and say something about the pic. I live ffor this planet and all that inhabitit. What do you do. just talk!!!

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It's sad you would even call your kids opps. For others reading. LISTEN YOUNG GENERATIONS. Educate yourself. Having one child can save the planet and all that inhabit it

Like I said before. When it comes down to it. Man would eat each other. You guys would!!! The ones that kill for your own selfishness. Wait till there is no food source but man. Just wait and see.

Call a person a moron again, and you will be deleted when it is reported. The term OOPS is a family joke in regard to a family planning snafu. And, to be blunt, The whole overpopulation crap is exactly that. Unless you get China and India to cut their populations, nothing we do will make a difference. BUT, if you want to do your part, remove yourself from the ecosystem if you desire. I prefer to live, love, and have a great time as a member of the ONLY species capable of changing this world for good OR bad. I will work for the good, without worshipping nature and abhoring mankind. It must be a sad existence to hate yourself because of the species you belong to. Perhaps a Psychiatrist could help. The vitriol you spew must cause gastric disturbances at the very least. Hoping you feel more human, Talk to you later.

The only reason kids should come into this is to mention that it would really be a shame if we don't perserve these wonderful, beautiful animals for future generations. Tigers too. Wow, what's up with this I don't give a damn attitude folks. Since humans are the ones destroyng their natural habitat isn't it only fair that we try to save them??

Amen to IslandSparkle and Kathy Proud Mom!! Hello people . . . WE are the reason the planet is polluted, overcrowded and certain species are extinct or going to be!!!

To you, not to me.

Hopefully before everything else is.....

if that's really the way you feel, let it start with you

Mike-you realize you are talking about yourself, right? Unless, of course, you are a monkey or some such animal. :P

I am ashamed at some of these comments I have read. It makes me want to cry--or scream. If this is truly how some of you believe--why don't we have a mass suicide day to save the animals! Oh, wait, that's NOT what y'all meant? Could've fooled me. Many of these comments are extremely-and sadly-ignorant. I understand you all are angry that this man suggested pulling the plug on the pandas. That doesn't mean we need to start being stupid and hoping that the humans (that's US for those of you not following my chain of thought) become extinct. Use the brains that the good Lord gave you, people.

Although, I do believe that we, as stewarts of the earth, should seek to care for the animals--we should not do it to the point that we forget the sanctity of human life. Humans are far more important than animals. Period. Yes, we should strive to save the pandas and the tigers etc. However, we need to set proirities. If we do not care for ourselves, we cannot care for the animals. If we do not respect human life, what point is there in trying to save an animal spices? How is that so hard for everyone to understand? It seems logical to me. Just because we want to save the pandas does not mean we need to start rooting for our own demise. It doesn't work that way. There is a fine line between caring for all life in a responsible way-aka taking care of animals and people to the best of one's ability without going bankrupt over it and becoming enviromentalist nutcases who care more for animals than their own children. When it comes down to it, if you had to choose between taking a bullet for a child or an animal, which would you choose? If you choose the latter, that is plain sad. Humans are more important. If you would be willing to die for an animal and not a child, well then you have lost your grip on what is truly important.

Save all those in danger--start with the children. The animals will understand. An animal would defend her baby sooner than defending a child, why should we be any different? Yes, we should strive to save the pandas (and all other endangered animals), but be smart people. Understand what is really important.

well thought out comment. I agree...

Oh yes, killers, murderers, child molesters and rapists are SO much better than animals! Some people in this world do not deserve to share life with the rest of us. What you're saying is if someone was going to shoot either a child molester or a dog, I should save the child molester? Um, yeah, sure.

Your comment is not well thought out at all. You say we must protect the sanctity of human life. I thought ALL life was sacred, according to God?