Do you agree with the Southwest flight crew's decision to kick a mother and cranky 2-year-old off the flight?
Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:42 PM EDT
Live Poll
Do you agree with the Southwest flight crew's decision to kick a mother and cranky 2-year-old off the flight?
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They should have bneen thrown off at 30,000 feet! God know I've wanted to do it!
Your fellow passengers shouldn't have to suffer because you cannot control your kids.
How about an apology from YOU, you insensitive, narcissistic <redacted>!
ANY unrully passenger should be removed.
I have asked parents with out-of-control children to leave my store. It is unfair for my others customers to be subjected to screaming children while they are concentrating on making purchases.
So true, so true.......I've traveled far and wide with my children over as far as five time zones in one trip. I had toys, small electronic devices, snacks, diapers aplenty, planned seating for easy access to aisles, and yes, even a small dose of sleep aid approved by my pediatritian to make it to the other side. To go on a plane with nothing but a prayer and a toddler is the height of stupidity
My mother just had to give one us five kids "the look" to get us to behave. Being tired or cranky or sick or bored was never an excuse for rude behavior.
So many parents today are helpless or don't seem to care that their screaming, spoiled brat kid is...
1) disturbing other diners at expensive, candle-lit restaurants at 9pm on a school night.
2) giving others a migraine at the supermarket because the kid wanted something and was denied.
3) talking non-stop and loudly throughout a must-see movie at a local theatre.
4) kicking the seat of the airline passenger in front of them.
5) or, is...[insert your example here]
I agree a thousand percent!! Trying to add your grocery purchases in your head so as not to 'go over' your budget and a screaming kid short circuits your brain!! We were taught to behave, not touch other people things, not to talk back, and Heaven forbid we ever threw any kind of tantrum! I travel VERY seldom, and almost every plane flight has been spoiled by kids
Parents that shrug off the misbehavior of their out-of-control 2-year old will be the same parents scratching their heads and blaming "society" when their precious little monster turns into a 14-year old delinquent.
If you're old enough to be a parent, you're old enough to learn parenting skills. For Pet's sake, it isn't rocket-science!
C'mon, John, tell us how you really feel. Don't hold back now.
I DO agree with you. Well, no the bit about tossing them out at 30,000 feet.
You never know what its truly like to have and raise a child until (GUESS WHAT!) you HAVE and RAISE one. I am frequently appalled at how childless adults are so un-understanding of the efforts that have to be put forth daily by those of us who are raising the next generation of leaders and adults. That having been said, if you are going to have children, know how to raise them, or sign them over to someone else who will. Dont give all of the rest of us parents a bad name, its the people who sit there and let their kids scream and run amok and ignore it are the exact reason why childless people can be so cold to the rest of us the way they are.
No matter who you are, sometimes your child is going to have a fit despite your best efforts. Why? Because its a child. As parents we know this, therefore, DO NOT put yourself in that situation. What does that mean?? It means KEEP YOUR YOUNG KIDS OUT OF MOVIE THEATERS unless its a KIDS MOVIE!!! If you cant find a sitter, then guess what? DONT GO. KEEP YOUR KIDS OUT OF ADULT RESTAURANTS... I mean, Chili's and Buffalo Wild Wings is one thing, but fine Italian restaurants is another. Pretty much, keep your kids at kid places where they belong, until they are old enough to behave consistently like everyone else. Of course, we cannot always avoid flying without our angels, but when your angel becomes the Devil on a flight and you choose (read: CHOOSE) not to contain him, dont be surprised when you find yourself back in the terminal and NOT at your destination.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, we cant always control the tantrums of children, but it makes me sick when these parents nowadays fail to even TRY. Until your lack of parenting skills and your failure to step up becomes unacceptable to you, childless people will continue to hate us all.
I wish more business would ask parents to leave with monster that are uncontrolled kids. I will not sit in a restaurant next to a table of kids. If there is no other place to sit we will leave.
You all shock me with your angry, insensitive accusations of poor parenting and rude people. This was a TWO YEAR OLD boy and any of you making such rude remarks and accusing the mother of poor parenting have clearly never had a two-year old child or are too old to remember what it was like.
Sometimes even well-parented kids at age two have melt downs, furthermore I fly a LOT and am routinely inconvenienced more from fools who have consumed too much alcohol on the plane, grossly overweight people taking up my seat as well as theirs, or people with severe body odor than by crying children... and those are adults who could be far more sensitive and in control. NONE of them in my opinion should be thrown off a plane either even though they are old enough to know better (okay maybe the drunk shouldn't be allowed back on). People today have no tolerance of anyone who even slightly inconveniences them. Life is a lesson in giving and taking, and that young mother could have used a little giving by people around her and the flight crew. I've seen flights where complete strangers pitched in to help out a mom in need rather than complaining or throwing a mother off the plane.
Grow up folks, I'm sure glad I don't have most of you as part of my support system. Your intolerance is appalling and you ought to be ashamed.
Spoken like someone who lets their kid scream in restaurants... And NO, random strangers are not responsible for being your "support system." I consider myself to be aware of the feelings of those around me, and I try not to offend/disturb in any way. But I am not helping someone contain their problem child...I was two once, my parents never would have let me act like the child on the plane, or like any of these little bastards that ruin almost every dinner out.
2 year olds aren't always the easiest to reason with. Every parents been in a similar situation at one time or another. Maybe time for you to grow up.
Christine and H-man,
My mom had 5 kids under the age of 6 and all she had to do is give us "the look". Whatever obnoxious behavior was going on stopped right then and there.
Mom and dad rarely spanked us, but they NEVER put up with bad behavior. They were consistent. Their rules: No yelling, crying or pouting! No fighting! No touching other people's stuff! and the best ones: "When I say NO, I mean no!" and "Because, I said so!"
Bring back "the look" and responsible parenting. And if you can't or won't control your kids in public, stay home with them until you learn how!!
My parents never took us to a restaurant until we all learned how to sit at a table and eat without bugging others.
Mandy I think you are still two with that attitude.
First of all you all have no idea if this boy is a "problem child" he could be the nicest kid 99% of the time and was having an off day due to an inflexible travel schedule... children have been known to have that happen at two right Mandy?
Second, we all get through tough times by VOLUNTARILY helping others. This article says nothing about the woman not caring, she may have been mortified by her son's tantrum and working hard to contain him.
We don't know the real situation but so many of you have decided that she is a bad mother and the boy is just a crummy kid who has been poorly raised.
Now I know why our country is in such tough shape when so many people can judge another person when knowing so little about the situation.
Based on these Newsvine votes it seems less than 20% of the people are driving more than 80% of the others crazy by allowing their obnoxious spoiled brats to misbehave!
I would be totally embarassed as a parent of a two year old if I had not learned to control my child. I have children and they are tought the same basics I was as a child, please and thank you, yes mam, no mam etcm. Parents today are too self absorbed to teach their children right and wrong today, then they try to excuse it as children being children when they act up. Parents need to take personnal responsability. The parent in this article is a screw up, and will never realize it because she will never see the true problem. Herself
I agree with inga, my parents were also the "look" givers, and as far as I remember, thats all it took for me. That carried on down to my parenting, and my son has been raised the same way because to me being able to command your child's obedience with ONE GLANCE is the best way to do it and is how it SHOULD be done. And the look works 99% of the time. But I agree with H-man and stormrider in that, every now and then there IS that rare time where that child or baby is gonna have a meltdown no matter what (yeah, try giving the look to a 1-year-old with an ear infection who is experiencing cabin pressure changes). You can look and look but the only solution is to remove that child and calm or punish them accordingly. Unfortunately, not much leeway (or room for that matter) on a plane in that situation.
I dont believe that anyone, unless they were or know someone who was on that plane, can assume that the woman was being a bad parent and if we werent there then how do we know that she wasnt trying to calm him the best she could?? My comments were shot to parents in general, because instead of blaming those who are on the outside looking in (people without kids), I feel as though the housecleaning should start at "home" with us parents as a whole. I personally wouldnt have put the woman off of the plane unless it was apparent that she was ignoring or accepting (and therefore encouraging) of her child's unruly behavior. Because if you dont care, then why should the people around you?
really ? control a 2 year old? are you really that out of touch? maybe you should just tell the president how you don't want to pay taxes either......
I would be hard pressed to imagine this mom didn't know her child had the potential to cut loose and get rude. Parents KNOW how their kids can turn for about 90% of the time. A sick child, be it flu, cold or ear infection shouldnt be on a plane anyway.
I applaud Southwest for putting the plane back in the parking lot and making them deplane. No one who has ever suffered through a red eye or transcontinental flight and put up with a rude, badly behaved child would think the airline was wrong. If they had not even left the damn airport and the child was disruptive, he'd be such fun at 30,000 feet. Pilots are responsible for a whole plane load of passengers, to get them safely to the other end. Who could say for sure this child wouldnt have hit the aisle running, yelling at the captain or worse, banging on the cockpit door. How do you think the pilots would feel then, someone banging on that door??
This isn't about anything but inability to control one's own child, be it with a look, glare, curled lip or harsh words (I left off swat on the butt due to child protective services). He's rude at 2, at 16 we'll be reading about him in USA Today.....
A symptom of a failing society is a lack of tolerance to "other". Children can not always be as quiet as we would like them to be, especially a two year old. I am increasingly concerned about our culture and the lack of tolerance towards children, and the elderly for that matter. Chances are quite good that that child will grow up normally and may even one day be the adult who researches, creates or dispenses the prescription for another drug to mask your anger and/or depression that you all can't figure out why you have.........
Compassion and tolerance.........just try it.
Christine - USMC
I find your comment interesting. I totally agree with your perspective on parenting re: - learn how to do it and accept the responsibility or don't have them.
What intrigues me is your beginning comment stating how un-understanding (now a word btw) people without children are. Why should an adult without children have to understand? No one asked you to have children or raise the next generation of leaders or adults. You made the choice to have kids. You should have known what the responsibilities are of raising those children BEFORE you made that decision. Why are you looking for "understanding" / sympathy / empathy from childless adults? You shouldn't be expecting adults who chose not to have kids to be understanding or empathetic about the "efforts it takes on a daily basis". You made the bed - lie in it.
We all make our own choices in life and we all have to put effort into being successful - regardless of the path we take. Don't assume that the effort you put into your life - raising kids - is any more valuable or important than the effort I put into mine.
And - btw - it was never acceptable for me as a child - whether I was 6 months, 2 years, 10 years or an adult to get up from the dinner table and run around a restaurant. Nor was it ever ok for me to sit there and be loud at the dinner table. It didn't matter what restaurant it was - buffalo wild wings or a 5 star dining establishment - my parents expected me to behave and I did. Why is it acceptable for a kid to get up and run around restaurants now? Its' NOT. If your kids won't sit at the table - then feed them at home.
To USMC: You hit it on the head.
I have no children. I chose that. I don't want another life style imposing their behavior on me. I don't impose it on them. A parent can not, should not, must note try and do all the same things a non parent can do. You want to get someplace? Drive or don't go. Fine dining: sitter or don't go, etc...
Sheri at 1.3 had it completely right - be prepared!
We too never went anywhere without a pack of stuff for the kids to do - plus snacks/drink, whether on a plane or to a restaurant (rarely there - but you can sit at a picnic table at Joes Crab Shack while Junior plays within eyeshot). No running - not through the mall, the restaurant, the store, period. If the kids fussed at the grocery - I left. Kids can learn to behave, and will if parents insist and are consistent. We never had a plane meltdown, and our kids flew at least once a year, from infants, as the inlaws were across country. (Not to say they never melted down - but when not on a plane - I left wherever.)
Finally a person who thinks before they speak! So many people on this forum are too busy spewing venom that they don't take the time out to actually make an educated statement. So thank you Kent!
(PS- no its never ok for kids to run around at ANY restaurant. I was merely attempting to imply that kids should be at kid-friendly restaurants only... keep them out of arenas that are typically reserved for adults if you are going to be offended that another adult reasonably does not want them there)
I think what I was attempting to put across by understanding was the idea of giving someone the benefit of a doubt. I'd say that I agree....Parenting is absolutely a choice. However, so are most things in life. Driving is a choice, so should we not empathize with people in car accidents? Should we not be understanding of a teacher who is struggling with the behavior of a problem student just because s/he chose to be a teacher? Should we not empathize with a slain officer because they chose to be a cop? Should we not support the troops just because they CHOSE to enlist? Nearly everything in life, save being born, is a choice... does that mean that no one on this earth is deserving of understanding?
I think you may perhaps be associating empathy with sympathy--which is not what I meant. As a parent, as a military member, as a teacher, as a WHATEVER--- I simply ask that other human beings attempt to understand where I'm coming from (empathy)... NOT to feel sorry for me (sympathy). I certainly do not believe that anyone's effort is more valuable or important than ANYONE elses--on the contrary; I believe we all have our individual albeit different crosses to bear. Which is why I believe--unless your problem has sprouted directly due to malicious intent or gross negligence on your part-- that at the end of the day, we all deserve a bit of understanding... no matter who we are.
Are you kidding.... throw them out at 30,000 ft.????? You obviously don't have kids and if you do, then your disposition is to beat them when they get out of line. I'm a new parent and understand that toddlers are impatient and unruly at times, but SW airlines really needs to check their policies before allowing their employees "cart blanche" with what they felt was an unstable situation. As for you Mr. John-K..... get a vasectomy while you can and never spread your evil seeds of hate and villany across this country. LORD knows that we have enough @!$%# on this planet, so do us all a favor and take the day off!
Whoever thinks a child cries because a parent "cannot control them" does not have children. They have no understanding of children's behavior. They melt down under any number of circumstances. And to say, I chose not to have children why should I be subjected to them....thank goodness your parent decided not to abort, heh? What is next, no old ladies in grocery stores because they are too slow? If you do not want to be around people, do not go in public places. Southwest was out of line returning to the gate to remove a mother and child from a plane. Personally, I would have been irritated that my plane was delayed for such an insensitive act.
Next time fly on Northwest. Maybe the screaming kid will keep the pilots awake!
I'm an Army brat with 3 siblings, and believe me when I say that we flew...a LOT. Several trans-Atlantic flights before I was 13. And let me say that not once did any of us even think about behaving like that on an airplane at any age!
Ultimately, the captian of the aircraft is the one who makes the decision to return the plane to the gate. If he felt the need to do that, then I'm pretty damn sure that kid had to have been somewhat out of control. Because doing that? That costs the airline a HELL of a lot of money. It's not something a pilot does lightly.
you sound like a real A$$ hole
they should thow your fat ass off, you were a child once, or did you go strait to being a jerk
Give me a break. You can set any kid down in front of the TV or video game and they'll be quiet for hours. They can do it on their ter,s they can do it on the parents ters. The problem is the parents don't give a dam.
Airplanes, restaurants and theatres should kick them all out when they have a brat throwing a tantrum. People pay good money for dinners and airflights and movies and don'd deserve to be miserable with some screaming crying baby. They should have adult only places to go and if not they should have rooms in restaurants and quiet rooms in theatres. They use to have quiet rooms in theatres in the balcony in the back of the theatre. Keep you cry babies at home.
Some parents should eat their young.
I'm sorry, but my 5-year-old has been flying at least 4 times a year (including long-hauls to Europe and South America) since she was 18 months old. She had a meltdown on her first flight (cross-country) that lasted about 5 minutes, until I basically told her that unless she stopped we would not go to Disney (which was the purpose of our trip). It's amazing how quickly even a toddler will see reason once it's made clear that her behavior has consequences. As a parent I do have sympathy for families with misbehaving children AS LONG AS I can see that the parents are making real efforts to control the situation. If this mother on Southwest had books, toys, snacks at the ready and was trying to comfort/reason with the boy, I would have been understanding and supportive. However, in my experience a lot of parents out there choose to look the other way when their kids act up, and that truly pisses me off. If you chose to have kids, you assumed responsibility not only for their well being but also for their actions until they are grown up. If you don't want the responsibility, don't have children.
lol
We live in Germany and have to fly quite often with our children. On my then 2 year olds first flight to London from germany she had a fit right before we were to take off. I did not know what to do to calm her down. Even the flight crew were trying to help (British Airways rocks!). I knew that once we took of and I could sit her in her own seat she would calm down. about 15 min later we took of and she did calm down. I apologized to everyone and mostly everyone reassured me that they all had been there before, We were all once that young. If you don't have kids then I can see that you would not understand the roller coaster of emotions that they go through, especially in a strange situation. All children are different....and further more I have never heard a child throw a tantrum for the duration of a flight, they always calm down. It is disturbing to me that grown adults would rather see a mother and child kicked off a plane. My husband is in the Military and that forces me to do a lot of things on my own. Including flying with my kids. And the next time we fly and she throws a tantrum I dare anyone to say anything about my parenting skills
You people are kidding yourselves if you think anyone can control a 2 year old when that specific child has gone into tantrum mode! What about the grown ups that seem to have no better manners than the 2 year olds? I was on a SW flight just a few weeks ago with a couple of drunk men. They screamed profanities and made sexual comments to the flight attendant the whole flight! Not one time did a flight attendant or crew member ask them to behave.
Kids are going to act out at that age. It is ridiculous for anyone to come on here and post that they do not deserve to fly because they are interferring with the rights of other passangers. BS. You either never raised a 2 year old, or your children were shot up with Riddlin in you say that 2 year olds don't act out in public. SW should be ashamed of themselves for kicking that family off of that air plane. It is not about having compassion for them, it is about understanding.
1.38, this child's behavior was way beyond "Acting out." He was unruly and by age 2, he should have better self control. If he had been raised right, he would have known how to behave in public. This mother has probably indulged his every whim. He's still in diapers and she had to rent a crib? Why couldn't the kid sleep in bed with her at the hotel and why isn't he potty trained? Because obviously that kid calls the shots at their household. The airline was right and that ignorant mother needs some parenting classes. you have to get a license to drive but any fool can have a child in this society.
A 2 YO is not unruly maybe he was scared. Ever happen to you? Do you have any kids? apparently not. So stop being ignorant. The mother was right the child most likely would have stopped after they took off.. So stop being so narrow minded and ignorant.
Until parents are held accountable for their kids behaviors (Like in this case), we will deal with misbehaved and disrespectful kids. It is so aggravating to be in a place with a screaming child and a parent who just cannot control the child because they have not done so at home. Parenting starts at home. Do not let your kids get away with murder at home because gets what? they will do the same when they are out there. It is not rocket science.
Big kuddos to the flight crew, they should be given a raise and a medal!!!
An adult and/or responsible parent can control any two-year old. It takes an adult/parent whom has integrity, responsibility and respect of themselves to have an ability to teach their children common social balance. This mother may not have been taught such a balance herself, or she may not have the interest or confidence to instill such balances for her child. (Which is not an excuse.) Nonetheless, the situation was the parent's responsibility, such as it is the responsibility of the majority of other passengers and Southwest to maintain integrity and respect for themselves and for others.
I'm a parent. Teaching any child such skills as confidence and self-control is just as responsible as it is to protect, feed, nurture them, when the parent has the means to do so. Children without consistent parents are no different than orphans, in my opinion. Of course, a child will falter now and then. Yet, if it is often, and the guardian states that a child is "acting their age", then you have a parent who uses excuses for their own irresponsibility, and they will fail the child, consistently. In other words (which may seem harsh to some), it's a form of hatred toward the child.
The limit of parental love and legitimate guidance is displayed by how responsible a child is of themselves. A child who does not possess confidence, self-control and responsibility in order to give and receive it throughout their lifetime is/has lacked the love and respect they're wanting of a guardian. Children are capable of teaching a parent how to be a parent; a parent may not have the ability to learn. Children with lack of basic self-control displayed in social surroundings may not have the guidance of a proper, receptive and loving guardian. Even if the child may have a mental/chemical imbalance, the guardian is still responsible of getting the child the care that they may need.
It is not responsible to try and "reason" with children of such a young age any more than it would be to try to reason with self-destruction. Some mistake "reasoning" with prepubescent children as a form of "responsible parenting", so much so that it's been followed more as a trend. (Trends are temporary, and have nothing to do with parenting.) The reality is that "reasoning" with a child is a form of irresponsible parenting taught to parents who do not have the skills, confidence to parent. No matter how "successful" it may appear.
Discipline, consistency, love and nurturing are just the basic starting points that children ask. They deserve those things.
wow what a bunch of sociopaths...
Keep kids off of planes unless you own the plane or you purchased the tickets for the rest of the plane's passengers. Take a bus or leave the kids at home. That's one of your life responsibilities that go with being a parent.
Keep kids out of movies unless it's a kids' movie. Only a selfish parent would take a kid to the movies.
Only a selfish parent would take a kid to a fine restaurant. If you choose to be a parent, your responsibility does not stop with your child. Your lack of parenting skills should not be imposed on the rest of society.
Got it?
I assume you don't have any children, because your comment was just ignorant and not something a parent would say. Believe it or not, sometimes kids are UNCONTROLLABLE!
Sometimes children cannot be controls. As a mother of a child with autism, I know first hand. Buy some earplugs!!!
Kuddos! People do not have responsibility to understand, period! There are countless examples of disruptive children and the parents who allow it. I have been in restaurants with children climbing over booths and drooling food, plane trips with kids kicking the back of my seat, etc....the list is so long. My opinion, parents inability or lack of concern for other's. Their little darlings are so precious and fragile, how could one scold them? Give me a break! 2 years of age is a perfect time to start teaching kids limits and accepted behavioral norms. Maybe try parent behavioral classes!
dan42day..thanks for the laugh!!! and WAY TO GO SWA, if there wasn't a round of applause when mom and child were booted, I'm sure there were plenty of smiles!
a child who knows know limit setting and will probably become a gang member
First and foremost, I'm single and because of that, I'm not going to judge any parent on how they should raise their child unless I witness violent activity towards their children. I can definitely respect Christine USMC. She seems to be a great parent towards her children. I will definitely listen to her advice when that time comes for me God willing of course. I can respect to some degree H-Man's frustrations on how others are judging, but I don't think that its all that simple. I have been on many flights like all of us, and I know its never a picnic for any 2-year old child to fly. I remember recently one flight on Southwest in which in order to make a flight quickly from Chicago to Central Florida, we flew at an altitude of approximately 41,000ft. compared to the normal 30,000ft plus of cruising altitude. Pressure was building up in my head as we started to descend and I could not wait to get off the plane. Meanwhile there were quite a few kids and a few infants crying non-stop. I'm not an expert on these matters, but it did not take an expert to understand that those kids were crying simply because of the pressure which they definitely don't experience often and don't understand was building up in their heads as well. I definitely could understand why all those kids were crying almost non-stop. I simply ignored it understandably. And I probably would do my best to ignore that woman's child as much as possible from this incident. I also respect why other paying flyers may want the parent of the uncontrollable child off the plane as well. I know that the alleged misbehaved child was ranting things quite differently compared to my brief story, I'm just saying that kids are not stupid. There's got to be some reasons to why that child was misbehaving on that flight. Maybe that 2 year old child does not like flying. Perhaps the flight crew was not having a good day and kicked the parent and her child off the plane to rectify the situation expediently. Overall, my opinion is: The Captain of the flight crew has every right to determine what is the most appropriate step to take during those incidents at that time; right or wrong. The incident will eventually straighten itself out if it was the right thing to do. The Captain is the skipper of most flights, whether we like it or not.
As a mom of three and an international traveler for my job, I have to believe that the child's (and parent's) behavior must have been absolutely unaccepable to warrant returning to the gate. Those of us who chose to have children need to teach our children how to behave in public places and respect the rights of others. Sorry, mom, you're both grounded in my opinion.
To comment 1.35 (Pumpiuyai), that was a totally heartless comment. Hopefully you haven't attempted to eat your own children.
Hey all you A holes who agree. Remember you were once a kid too! Deal with it get headphones!
The obvious solution would have been for the mother to rent a car and drive to her destination with her little precious screaming in her ear the entire way.
Children who are normally well-behaved and well-socialized do not just 'go off' in stores and on airplanes, pitching fits out of the blue. This child's stunt is routine behavior. I've always been able to take my son to a restaurant, to a store, on a plane w/o incident because he's been taught how to behave in public. The one time he tried to pitch a fit, I left my grocery cart full of groceries by the customer service desk, took him calmly to the car, strapped him into his carseat and took him into his bedroom where he was put in a 'time out' while I went back to finish my shopping. My hubby was home so no, I did not leave him unattended in the house! That was the first and last time he tried to throw a tantrum because I kept my head and took control, and he learned very quickly that this behavior would get him nowhere.
We adults also have to stop over-scheduling our kids, and not take them into public places when we know that they are overtired and are close to a meltdown. I know we're running in three different directions, but if your toddler is tired or not feeling well, then maybe you postpone your errands that day, or all but the most critical errands. And NEVER take your child into a toy store to buy a birthday gift for another child unless you intend to buy something small for your child as well (ie a Hotwheel car). Loving discipline never hurt a child and there is security in knowing that Mommy and Daddy are in charge.
And I'm sure others have wanted to throw your insensitive, ignorant ass off of a plane at one time or another as well. You obviously don't have kids so allow me to educate you: You CAN'T ALWAYS EXPECT A TWO YEAR OLD TO SIT QUIETLY AND ACT LIKE AN ADULT SHOULD......HE'S TWO YOU IDIOT. I'm sure that once the plane was in the air the child would have calmed down. They usually do, unless the pressure in their little ears starts to cause them pain.
This has nothing to do with parenting skills! or the ability to "control" your child. When you throw a child, especially a SMALL TODDLER into a situation that they don't quite understand, and they are scared, you can expect them to cry. I don't think any of the people on here that have left rude nasty comments have been on a plane with their small child. Deal with it.... when you fly, expect that there might be small children, so bring headphones!
We don't have enough information about the situation. Did the mom try to calm the child or did she let him create a scene. My wife and I were traveling with a two-year-old but we scheduled our flight during her nap time so she'd sleep on the way. Anyway, the flight got cancelled and we had to take a cab to another airport and catch another flight to get home. That plane sat on the runway for over an hour and during that time the plane got very hot. This was more than three hours after our original flight was supposed to leave and our daughter was very tired by this point. Once the plane was in the air and the air cooled off she was fine, but during the waiting time she had trouble. The flight crew was very understanding and gave us a cold washcloth to help her cool off.
So, without know what caused the situation and what the crew or mom did or did not do to help, I don't think we can say who is right here.
Thnk you have to lead it up to the Airline folks in this situation. Just like when we get mad when a flight is cancelled. We don't know the whole story. Accountability! Another example of people using the blame game. Who came on board with the crying child? The airlines, other passengers, no the person asked to leave. I do not support the 300k feet departure but have to admit, there have been times I would have done so with some adults. People, get on the plane, chat to a minimum and sit back and relax for a change. I don't want to know your life story.
John - have you got children? By your answer I'm guessing you either have no children or are the type that let's your wife handle the situation. Children are not adults and don't understand what is going on and get scared. I'm sure once the plane was off and running the child would have been fine. You fly, you deal with it. You know what the risk are when flying that there may or may not be children on the plane. Bring headphones and you will not be bothered. It isn't like a resturaunt where she can walk outside and explain the the child what is going on and calm them down. I think she should get her money back plus a free ticket for future travel!
I agree with John 100%. That mother should apologize to every passenger personnally.
I don't think she deserves anything from the airlines.
ABSOLUTELY - the other paying customers have rights, too. I shouldn't have to use expensive noise canceling headphones because she can't sedate her kid and regular ear plugs don't block it out.
Two year olds throw temper tantrums IF they parents let them learn that the behavior brings a reward. IF there were no reward (rocking, comforting etc) there would be no bad behavior. And, by the way I have 2 advanced degrees and spent my career working with unruly kids with ineffective and lazy parents.
Excuse me, you are a jerk. it was a 2 year old. How about we throw you off the plane at 30,000 feet you stupid ass.
A little harsh but the point is well taken.!
We've all met parents that let they're children run wild and exclaim," how dare you say anything about my little darling". I have a strong feeling that the pilot's decision was based on the mother's actions instead of the childs. As a father of 2 adult sons, I know that young children will try to assert their will at times. You don't choose the time, they do. A good parent recognizes the rebellion and addresses it immediately. A tantrum at the mall once meant I took my 2 yr.old out to the car with stern words while Mom continued to shop. Never happened again. If this mother had tried to contain the child and promised to take him to the restroom once it was safe, this incident might never have happened.
I work for an airline (not southwest). thank God someone isnt afraid of the political correctness that has gone overboard. If we did that where I work, we'd be fired even though one unruly kid and a mom who probably didnt do squat to quiet the kid down was bothering upwards of 140 paying passengers, many of whom just want to sleep or do some work.
What the hack has happened to our society anyway?
Airlines...........empowered by 911
I had 3 kids that i COULD take to a fine restaurant or anywhere as i am a PARENT who is in CONTROL & knew if if could not have control i would NOT take them out!! I CHOSE to have kids, and also chose to be the "alpha" person in my house. my kids knew that if you could not control yourself, you would NOT be going with me as i do NOT condone bad behavior. people at fine restaurants would actually compliment me on how well the kids were. this was encouraging to me & a positive reinforcement to my kids to hear someone else tell them how good they were behaving. guess what - they are now 18, 21, & 23 yrs old and are responsible adults and are also active in the community helping others. why is this?? because i was a responsible adult & parent who was very active in my kids lives & raised them to be respectable, well behaved, responsible adults. this mentality of "he's only two" is an EXCUSE for poor/lazy parenting & is raising another poor example of what society is becoming. look at the spectators in the gang rape of the 15 yr old - more lazy irresponsible actions of poor excuse for a human being. please raise your children to be shepherds/leaders NOT sheep - there's way too many sheep out there with excuses!!! parents should be teaching their kids that there is NO excuse for bad behavior & to be responsible for their own actions (there is no age limit on when to start - if it's done when they are little - they grow up with the expectation to continue being self respecting/responsible)
I can just picture the 200 HAPPY passengers clapping and buying each other drinks as psycho mom and the little monster is escorted off the plane.
Thank you for saying what you think, instead of 1) being too wimpy to tell the truth, or 2) standing up for them because your own kids are worse and you cannot control them because you are afraid of them. It's refreshing when someone says what they mean nowadays and isn't afraid of being attacked by an inept mother who is so easily offended by the truth. I commend you.
Word.
I have a 5 yr old, and always carry enough stuff to keep her entertain, and so far she has behaved, but kids are unpredictable, and I had to deal a lot of that in my before-kids time.
Everybody that is blaming the mom, I would have wanted the airline to ask them as volunteers to settle down the kid, and I'd like to see how you manage, and how you put to practice "your so-called good skills".
Sometimes kids think that doing a tantrum like that is going to get them what they want, now this kid is going to think "if I scream, they'll get me out of this confined place", and you think that's well done? I fully disagree. I am my daughter's parent, she is not the boss, and she has tried what this kid did in other kind of situations and guess what?, she is not going to manipulate me with a tantrum, she knows better now, but we had to sacrifice a couple of times another people in the way (with these tantrums), to get to the point of well behavior, but what the airline did only encourages today's kids mind "they can do whatever they can get away with, with just a tantrum", that's why kids nowadays feel so powerful over authority, because they get to be manipulative due to people that let them take control with a tantrum that "bothers" so many people.
I used to travel a looooot for business, If airlines are going to start doing this "because it bothers people", they should start taking off the plane annoying drunks, people who stinks the plane up by taking off their shoes and even socks, people that sits by window and get up 100 times to go to the bathroom, people with bad breath that chooses to fall asleep with their mouth open facing at you...I mean...come up people!!!!
A few years ago I was on a flight from London to Newark. This kid somewhere behind me started up the minuted it sat down and continued for at least 45 minutes to an hour. It must have finally fallen asleep. About and hour or so before landing it started up again. This was not a wimpering cry. This kid had lungs that would put Pavarotti to shame. Needless to say everybody was estatic when the plane landed and we could get away from the kid! I have no idea what the mother was doing because she obviously had no skill in quieting him/her down. Meanwhile 300+ other people had a horrible night!
If parents have no parenting skills, then getting kicked off the plane might help them think about this next time. One child who probably hasn't paid for a ticket should be removed if the parent cant keep them quiet nad it is disturbing tothe majority of passengers who have spent money for their ticket and would not have paid for a ticket had they known a disruptive 2 y/o could control their environment. I love Southwest!
I have no idea and make no judgement as to whether this mother had good parenting skills because, yes 2 year olds will occasionally throw tantrums no matter what you do. I think the real issue here is that there were likely more than 100 other passengers on that plane who would have had to listen to that tantrum for the entire flight. Earlier posts have asked for compassion and understanding, but I can tell you I rarely have gotten it myself from parents who's children kicked my seat and cried during flights, giving me migraines and making me miserable for hours.
As a young child I was always told that things like plane flights (we always DROVE for our family vacations) and fancy restaurants were for older kids and adults ... I may not have liked it as a kid, but I see now that my parents were correct. When I shell out hard earned money for an expensive meal or a plane ticket, I dont' see why I should be expected to forgo my comfort and enjoyment because #1 it's too incovenient for parents to make other arrangements or #2 they just don't think it's something I should be bothered by. The other passengers on that flight had rights too and I applaud Southwest for not compromising the service to many for the accomodation of two.
Flying on Southwest (or in coach on any airline) is no different than riding in a bus- You want privacy, peace and quiet, an all adult flight and exclusivity- then shell out the cash for either first class or a private jet. Don't kid yourself, this is Southwest domestic, not Emrites first class.
Limeygal,
"I'd be interested to see how you manage a "terrible two" confined into a tiny space on an airplane."
Simple...I don't take them on a plane until they're old enough to behave.
No Kim, flying Southwest is not the same as riding on a bus. And if kids were screaming on a bus, they and their parents should get the same treatment.
I applaud Southwest on the decision to evict. It should happen to anyone from "Terrible Twos" through "Terrible One Hundred and Twos".
The kid shouldn't fly until he/she learns to behave... or the parent learns how to parent.
Kim-451369 is exactly right. Flying is a form of PUBLIC transportation. If there was enough demand for passengers to have child-free fights, then I think there would be an "adults only" airline by now. And YES, the mom, unless she lied about the kid's age bought a ticket for the kid b/c two year olds are required to have a separate seat. I wonder how long it took SW to kick them off b/c I seriously doubt that the kid would have screamed the entire flight. A two year old only has so much stamina. And you people who are blaming the mom obviously have no children or are lucky enough to have well behaved two year olds. I have flown with my 2 year old over a dozen times and often get complimented on how well behaved he is. I can tell you, I am a great parent but IT"S LUCK!
It doesn't matter Kim451369 whether it's Southwest, any other airline, or first class, coach. I raised 4 children and I can promise you in public they acted EXACTLY as they were told to. They knew there were consequences for not doing so. That being said I can only remember a handful of time out of all four that I had to actually do something other than look at them. They understood from an early age. All of my kids are healthy happy well adjusted adults with children of their own they are raising the same way. It infuriates me, the mamby pamby way folks are raising their kids today. I go to a restaurant and pay $100 for a meal yet I have to listen to somebody's screaming ranting 2 yr old, I don't think so. I usually demand they either move me or the others. If not refund my money. I just don't take it anymore and apparantly niether does Southwest. Hooray Southwest for taking a stand!!!
None of us have any idea what actually happened with the 2 year old. It was probably awful for them for a few minutes. (Poor passengers!) But, 2 year olds tantrums tend to end just as quickly as they start. You do not know that the tantrum would have lasted the entire flight and it is completely awful for you to judge whether or not it is ok for a parent to take a 2 year old on a plane! How do you know she wasn't on her way to a funeral, wedding or some other important event that required her to have her child with her.
I don't like hearing a screaming child either, but you only speak of your rights to have peace and quiet - well, you know when you are in public that is NOT actually a right. I have not seen it anywhere in the constitution. What about the woman's rights? She paid for her flight too and she would have paid for a ticket for her child if he was over 24 months old as well. If the child was disruptive enough that the pilot could not fly the plane then I would understand them taking him off. I am pretty sure that it is impossible for a screaming child to interrupt the pilot however.
The mother has the right to be treated fairly whether she is a bad parent or not is not for us to judge - we weren't there. The child was more than likely out of her control due to confined spaces and an irrational stewardess! Southwest inconvenienced her unfairly. Would you really throw a woman and small child into the street in an unfamiliar city? Shame on you! I hope you have a tantrum throwing 2 year old one day so you can learn some compassion.
hey VAL let's be honest in todays world if i opened an all adult's airline, the first thing to happen would be me being sued by some parent for discrimination.
I totally agree with you, no one knows what the real issue was with the child. I know that its annoyiny to hear achild crying, or screaming etc. However many times the child is uncomfortable or not feeling well. Maybe the flight attendants should have escorted the mom and child to the back of the plane and have them sit there until he quieted. I don't know the whole scenario so its hard to comment either way. This is not a race issue or a parenting issue for the most part, as amedical personnel who have worked with small children (and adults) I think people should have a little more compassion. I have two children and have travelled with both of them younger and older than 2y/o. I think if you are properly prepared for the trip it should go fairly smoothly. Maybe all those people who think this woman should have a hysterectomy etcare over reacting abit. Many adults behave worse than 2year olds. Trust me I see them everyday at work. As for that writer who wants to go to a home when he/she is old, maybe you should volunteer in one and listen to some of the elderly who have no one to visit them. Having children is a choice and a blessing. THANK YOUR MOTHER!!
Blame the flight attendant??? That's rich. These other people spent several hundred dollars for Southwest to provide a service. Part of that service is a reasonable expectation to not be inconvenienced by some woman's inability to control her screaming kid. By not removing the unruly passenger they are doing a disservice to the others. It's simple math. You inconvenience one passenger because of their own actions, or you inconveniece 100 others through no fault of their own. I stand by Southwest.
Your statement about throwing her on the street in an unfamiliar city makes assumptions. Look at it like this: You don't want to go to jail?? Don't steal. It's cause and effect. She's responsible for her kids actions, period. She can't follow rules??? Get your money back and find another way.
Unless the child is not suffering from colic or disabled, and as long as they are not kicked out of the emergency exits in mid-flight.
Can sure tell you have no children. In the first place the child more than likely would have stopped once the plane took off (note he was saying "go plane go"). How long had they been sitting waiting to take off. The confined space and the need to sit still in a belted in condition makes me want to scream also, and I'm talking about in a car until the movement and noise of the engine (white noise) calmed the antsiness, and having had 3 children I know that they disliked it also, until the car started moving and usually within 5 minutes they were looking out the window, reading a book or even sleeping. For heaven sakes, the child just wanted to go. Surely the flight attendant could have come up with some kind of treat (bribe) which would have calmed the situation immediately. Grow up people, you were once 2 also, and I know some 50 year olds who haven't gotten out of the "terrible twos" yet.
so, I take it you were a perfect child???? If you were not, so I guess your parents didn't have any parenting skills?? Kids will be kids and they have as much rights as adults. I am so sick of people thinking that they were perfect little angels and that people can't discipline their kids. I have 3 kids and all 3 have different personalities. Give me a break people.
Stupid analogy because it is against the law to steal... not against the law to take a child on an airplane!!
I absolutely agree with Southwest's decision. I have friends who are in the process of adopting a child. They have to take CPR, parenting classes, first aid, and have all kinds of background checks and evaluations. It would be better for society, if everyone had to learn to parent before becoming a parent. She obviously has permitted this type of behavior and should suffer the consequences of poor parenting skills.
I don't understand you people that said "YES" you must not have kids yourself, and you don't know how fast things can change on a dime with a 2 year old. Don't judge!!! And like I read earlier "get a car", or maybe it's because you can't stand to be in a car with spouse with nothing to talk about for that long. All -- F. O. S. !!!!
Won't fly SW now!!!
Where is your common sense and compassion . Professional flight crews ARE trained HOW TO HELP in situations like this. Is your money ALL that important to you. It is attitudes like yours that hurt this country ! Give something back or pay it forward and see what happens . Oh yeah , I'm not some sniffling liberal either , I am a retired Marine that knows alot about life that I think you don't !
"Kids will be kids" is a lame assed excuse for poor parenting! I totally agree that they should limit exposure of unruly, upset or misbehaving children by whatever means necessary - including parachutes! LOL Well maybe not parachutes - better to leave them on the ground before takeoff.
Hey darthfrodo, whos the one making assumptions here. your assuming that the kid was that out of hand to warrant being kicked off the flight. The world is full of @!$%#s and a good portion seem to have read this article.
What is wrong with people? I can assure you there was nothing wrong with the mother's parenting skills - the child is 2!!! The tantrum would have ended once the plane got going. Even the most well behaved child was once 2!!! Sometimes a plane ride is much easier than driving for 16 hours! How was the mother supposed to get home with her child? They should have given her a chance. I guarantee the child would have stopped once the plane got up in the air. People say they are constantly being disturbed and kicked from child passengers??!! Well, I find the opposite to be true. I am constantly being disturbed on a plane by ADULTS that kick my seat, snore, cough, and take my armrest!!! I am small person and I don't appreciate that - so should I complain and have the adult removed? I am sick and tired of adults bad mouthing kids and mothers! Southwest had better compensate this woman and her child! It makes me scared to have a child in this world when there are such a-holes around! We need to all just work with one another and HELP each other!!! But if not, the next time I take a plane ride, I think I will ask to have the obnoxious adult behind me or next to me removed.
What is wrong with people? I can assure you there was nothing wrong with the mother's parenting skills - the child is 2!!! The tantrum would have ended once the plane got going. Even the most well behaved child was once 2!!! Sometimes a plane ride is much easier than driving for 16 hours! How was the mother supposed to get home with her child? They should have given her a chance. I guarantee the child would have stopped once the plane got up in the air. People say they are constantly being disturbed and kicked from child passengers??!! Well, I find the opposite to be true. I am constantly being disturbed on a plane by ADULTS that kick my seat, snore, cough, and take my armrest!!! I am small person and I don't appreciate that - so should I complain and have the adult removed? I am sick and tired of adults bad mouthing kids and mothers! Southwest had better compensate this woman and her child! It makes me scared to have a child in this world when there are such a-holes around! We need to all just work with one another and HELP each other!!! But if not, the next time I take a plane ride, I think I will ask to have the obnoxious adult behind me or next to me removed.
Give me a bleedin break! These whiny, no kid having ingrates are too much! So what, are parents not to go to the mall with children because it may inconvenience anyone around that may hear them? Are they not to leave the house until their children are out of "tantrum" age so as to not offend childless persons sensitivities? Get over your selves! What did you want this woman to do? Because if she took care of business (i.e. spanked the child) and got the child to quiet down you'd cry child abuse. Look, you can't have it your way all the time and you WILL experience inconvenience at times in your life...get used to it, it's called being alive! The world doesn't revolve around you and your wishes. This person paid full price for her ticket, just like everyone else. She paid full price for the child's ticket, how do I know? They require for proof of the childs age when you check in. So looks to me she paid good hard earned money just like you!
For those who have older children that where perfect angels on flights and perfect when told, you are delusional. I had very strict parents (the children are to be seen and not heard kind) and was told not to touch when we went places or there would be dire consequences (such as a SERIOUS butt beating) but I still climbed on top of a store display once and sent an entire Prell shampoo display tumbling down, this was back when they came in glass bottles so you can imagine the mess. Sometimes the temptation or the desire is worth the punishment. For those that remember being angels as young as the age of two, you are also delusional. I have only limited memory of when I was that age and only because the situation was a big deal at the time and it's not because I don't have an excellent memory.
Get over your "I'm so annoyed, I'm so inconvenienced, I'm so this, I'm so that...me me me" and try a little compassion, it won't kill you. Fact is that most parents are mortified when there child/children behave like that and wish they could fix the situation with a good old fashion spanking but are afraid they'll be reported to DSS for abuse. My sister flew to the U.S. from Ireland and the trip here her daughter was perfect. The trip back on the other hand was the polar opposite. These are the risks everyone takes when you use public transportation which everyone that can pay for the ticket has the right to use, no matter what the age.
To the intellectual who posted this piece of nonsense;
"b0394
hey VAL let's be honest in todays world if i opened an all adult's airline, the first thing to happen would be me being sued by some parent for discrimination."
Yeah....because the courts are flooded with cases of parents suing bar owners because they can't bring in anyone under age....brilliant reasoning.
Anyone who hammers on the mother's parenting skills probably doesn't have kids. Two year olds sometimes go off on some wild tangent. And yelling I want Daddy or Go Plane Go is not out of control for that age. They are called the Terrible Two for good reason. Kids that age are growing into the "I want phase" and have not developed reasoning skills
For those of us that fly, we have all been around kids. Sometimes they are quiet sometimes they aren't. That life. I'll take a screaming kid next to me before I
A. take a person that doesn't believe in bathing
B sit next to someone who takes up their seat, and 1/2 of mine.
It sounds like the mother was not making any effort to quiet the child (her statement that she assumed he would quiet after takeoff). If she'd been making an effort, I could see trying to accomodate them and perhaps move them to the back for a time or something, however if she didn't care to stop the child herself then the flight crew was absolutely right to remove them.
Usually a two years old child has to pay 100% ticket no more discounts for kids, unless it is an infant and being held by mom on the whole flight, so this is unfair for you to say, and about the parenting skills...well.. please read my other, longer comment by Anna-Tucson
I just booked a ticket to South America. I shudder to think I may have had to spend those 15 hours in the plane with that kid. I raised three kids, my husband had a job that required we move every 2 years or so, my kids were never taken anywhere that they could not handle. There are many well behaved two year olds. They learn a language, how to eat by themselves, they begin letters, numbers, colors - and they can learn to behave with proper parenting, or how to throw a tantrum and make demands. No one should have to be in a plane with that.
ABSOLUTELY, Southwest is not playing games with you people. I love them, Keep up the good work. Don't give her anything she needs to get control of her child. I find it interesting that everyone that has been in the news for being put off a Southwest filght have been wrong as the day as long. People need to understand that flying is serious business and the pilots do not need to be bothered with all of that noise. I hope they continue to check the passengers and put off any violators.
Perhaps one could take a poll of the people that were actually on that plane.
Go Plane Go and I want daddy, doesn't sound like a "tantrum" to me. Had he been thrashing around, kicking, screaming, throwing himself on the floor...now THAT'S a tantrum.
Parenting skills or no parenting skills, the kid was cutting up. I highly doubt they were thrown off for the kid being 'whiny' or just 'regular' crying. For the poster that said calling for daddy and telling the plane to go didn't sound like a tantrum to her.........it's not WHAT they're saying but HOW!
I was at DMV and lady came rushing in with 3 girls, the youngest being about 3. Her eyes were already red and very puffy, her face wet with tears. She continually howled 'I DON'T WANTA BE HERE' and 'I WANTA GO HOME' at the TOP OF HER LUNGS!!! These 2 phrases were interspersed with blood curdling screams. You know the kind that make your ears sorta buzzy. The DMV put that human siren and her mom OUT!! Hip, hip, hooray for the DMV!!
And like other posters saying the kid 'probably' would have calmed down after take off. Well what if the kid didn't calm down? Were the other passengers supposed to grin and bear it because 'it's just a kid being a kid'. Puh-leez!! I bet you are the same people that think it's also ok to let your kids 'just be kids' by kicking the back of my seat like one little boy on a recent flight. THUNK, THUNK, THUNK. Rest a minute or two and repeat. He was about 5 and definitely old enough to know better! Oh yea, he was also giving his sister pure de hell by badgering her. So add her whining to the mix plus an oblivious father. I gave the little boy the evil eye quite a few times and the little devil gave me an evil eye back and kicked harder. Ok. I finally gave his dad the evil eye and he acted as if nothing at all was wrong. I gave the dad his 2nd and final 'warning' evil eye and he ignored me. My hubby gave me the 'PLEASE try to stay calm' look. BULLSH*T!! I wasn't about to put up with that for 4 or 5 more hours - I'd had it. I ripped off my seatbelt, manuevered and stood and said 'Little boy! If you don't quit kicking my Godd*mned seat!!' And YES, I used those exact words. Scared the living sh*t out of him and then I glared at his sorry excuse for a father and dared him to say anything back to me. Mmmm, did i hear murmurs of approval! Several years ago I had a also had a 'kicker' in the theater and it was pretty much exactly the same as the flight but a little girl. And she was nice enough to share the wealth by going about 5 or 6 seats down. Back and forth she went with me getting the brunt of them since I was sitting right in front of her mother where she'd linger before going back down the row. She'd also poke this elderly gentleman about 4 seats down in the back with her fingers. His evil eye worked no better than mine. After 10 or more minutes of this (during which the movie was quiet/low volumned so her thunks could be heard by others) I figured it was time to bring that crap to a halt! I stood up and said same thing I did above, and at least half the large theater applauded.
So all of you parents (good or bad) that KNOW or even THINK your kids are likely to be UNRULY BADA$$es that you can't or refuse to control - keep them off the planes, out of theaters, nice restaurants, the DMV or whereever.
And just a note......I'm sure Dr.'s will give you something to sedate the kids for long flights (probably short ones too). Especially since these days they dish out Ritalin like it's skittles or m&m's. (but that's another blog :-)
Well said Heyford...my sentiments exactly. Bad parenting is the cause of most of our problems in this country. Our prisons are full of the products of bad parenting. If my child had acted like that little brat, I would have never let her out of the yard. She tried, was spanked and learned to behave. Thank God, we had never heard of "time out". It rarely works.
To all of you non-disciplinarians out there. She did not become violent as a result of paddling. She became a educator, continued to go to college after work and at night for her Masters Degree. She decided not to have children because she saw how very unruly today's kids are.
Sadly, it has become necessary for our schools to teach the values that bad parents are too lazy, too busy or too drugged up to teach. And, of course, the teachers are expected to fix the little darlings without being able to discipline them.
Way to go, Heyford.
In the past I was a flight attendant and later a check-rider for a major airline. Contrary to popular belief, flight attendants primary job is safety and security, not pampering passengers. Flight attendants are trained and retrained frequently for emergency procedures.
The child and mother were put off the plane because the child interfered with the crew's safety instruction. It's been a long time since any airline I've travelled cared about passenger comfort. Take the seats......
When I check-rode, I often took my 2 or 4 year old. The airline liked to know how families with children were treated. My children always behaved, because the knew if they didn't it would be their last trip. I made that clear and it worked.
wow! must live in a glass houses!! or not a parent! but if you are a parent your a great lier... 2yrs old child... they have there moments! has nothing to do with parenting skills at all! dont tell me your a parent and never had a moment with there child... all of the comments by perfect parents are full of it!!! guess when i sat 11hrs on the run way and the passengers were crying bitching for hrs southwest didnt kick them off!! everyone is so thin skinned these days.... PEOPLE NEED TO GROW UP!!! its life!! get over it! whos really the kids in this... not the 2yr old... southwest and there cry baby passengers... i know theres going to be so call parents saying there child is perfect.. mabe in your eyes but not to everyones...
I wonder who the children are here, even as I admit I would want them 86'd, too. We can let quiet, polite muslims idiots on a plane so they can crash it, but to hell with a poor mother and her screaming child. It sounds like this is where a good old fashioned ass whipping would have come in handy. Where was Home Security when this was going on? It would have been easier just to shoot the infidels!!
That's foolish to blame the parents for a misbehaving two year old. Have you not heard of the term terrible two's. I'm disgusted the airline resorted to escorting the mother and her child out of the plane. I'm sure there could have been other ways to calm the child who probably had never been on an aircraft before down. I never flying southwest again after hearing this.
Having lived on a reservation, the American Indians used to stop a child from crying by holding the child's nose; he couldn't breathe and cry at the same time so he quit crying- safe, effective, and humane.
"native americans" were really the "original immigrants"
what the heck does parenting skills have to do with somone's will?
I agree with the people here who said Southwest acted correctly. If a brat is making too much commotion then the parent and brat need to get booted out. I hate it when parents force their brats on us like in a plane or the movies etc. I have not worked hard to earn a vacation just to have my trip messed up by someone else child from hell. PERIOD!!!!!
Jezz: People we have to get the unemployment rate down, after reading all of the above, both sides, looks like people have to much time on their hands (don't count me I am retired and bored) got to find something else to do because the above statements both sides make me sick. Truthseeker yours was best answer, but the mother would have been reported and arrested, the bleeding heart's that don't want children on a plane would have called the police for child abuse. have a nice day. PS Ep13 I sure hope you never had or have children BRAT is not the word to use, you will make a wonderful mother.
Who has never had a child scream before? I think we all have. It certainly doesn't make us bad parents.
Unfortunately people are forgetting about compassion and common sense. Kids will be kids and I know that it has been said and argued many times before but that is the solid truth/ Everyone has different personalities and unfortunately not everyone understands that. My main concern is that if a flight crew is not able to control a 2 year old then how well do you think they would do with a terrorist or psychotic passenger. This only shows the incompetence of a flight crew not the incompetence of mother probably wrought with embarassment. Instead of hiring funny flight attendants maybe hire some with common sense and problem solving skills. I will never fly southwest again
Commenters who criticize the mother's parenting skill obviously have never had children of their own and should keep their yaps shut. Fly business-only if you want to avoid children. The fact of the matter is that this kind of thing can happen to ANY parent with a two year old. Those of us whose children usually do well with air travel hold our breaths because we all know that the calm hangs by a small thread, even if we use all the best tricks of the trade. For those who don't think they should have to pay for other's choice to have children and travel with them, we'll remind our children of your objections when it comes time to take care of you in a long-term care facility and pay the hefty tax burden your presence will impose on society. Perhaps your parents shouldn't have burdened the rest of us with your presence either.
You people are cruel. No one wants to listen to a child having a tantrum, but as the mother of a 3 year old, I can tell you, sometimes there is just nothing you can do. Yes, planning helps, but is certainly not fool proof. I would not choose to fly with my child for fear of annoying other passengers, but sometimes it can't be avoided. I had to fly with my son last year, then 2 years old. I had a critically ill parent on the other side of the country and had no shoice but to fly. Thankfully, I had lovely young woman on my right who let my sons legs rest on hers when he fell asleep and a sweet young man on the other side of me. My son slept most of the way, but even while worrying about if I would get to my parent before he died, I was still worried about my son annoying people. Sad when we have to worry about such trivial things. A child is a precious gift and should be cherished even while having a tantrum. And by the way, tantrums are usually caused by a child that is over tired, not from parents that don't discipline. Who isn't tired when traveling? Lighten up people. Be glad you can hear the child.
You have the right attitude. I guess I have to add, as a mother who traveled frequently with children, that the attitudes of the people around me helped or hurt the most when my children had a meltdown. The nice people, those who knew children or who were simply compassionate, said, "oh you are having a bad time, but it will soon get better, how old are you, and do you have any brothers or sisters? Is this your first time traveling with mommy?" etc, etc, all the while smiling gently at the crying youngster. Amazingly, the people who got all irritated racketed up the crying and screaming because children are amazingly quick to pick up on the vibes around them. Now when I travel, and it is frequently, I try to smile and help out the mom in distress. I have also found that when I speak out gently to the mom, so that my seatmates can hear, they also become calmer and more tolerant. There will always be inconsiderate selfish people in the world. That does not mean we all need to be like that.
Quite frankly sir, a 2 year old throwing a tantrum is in no way a sign of that mother's parenting. The kid is 2! That's what 2 year olds do, and it's quite obvious that you have no experience with children what so ever if that's the conclusion you came up with. I will have no choice later this year but to fly with my 2 year old son and 1 year old son because my husband will have our car and I will have no other means of transportation. I would gladly take a MAC or military space available flight as I am allowed to take those because of my husband's occupation, but their schedules and available space are unpredictable, so I will be flying with a regular civilian airline. And just for your information, that mother more than likely had to pay for an extra seat for her 2 year old since most airlines force parents to pay for seats for kids 2 and up. I will do my best to keep my children quite and happy, but if they get upset, honestly, what do you expect a parent to do with a child in such a confined space when they have no other choice? Are you going to expect them to have to foot the bill for another night in a hotel with their child and another plane ticket just to hope they don't get kicked off the next flight as well because their child is uncomfortable?? Honestly, you have no right to judge that mother since you obviously have no idea what a 2 year old is like and how do you know that she wasn't trying everything she could to calm him down?
A no-brainer idea:
How about a simple cry booth? How hard would it be to enclose (soundproof) one set of seats for crying babies???
Sheesh . . .
You know what, that is an EXCELLENT IDEA! I'm sure a lot of parents would appreciate that, as well...if my daughter was still little, I sure would.
I can't wait until you have kids. You'll never be able to go anywhere with that attitude. Here is a news flash: Children are part of life, and even the best parent sometimes has no control over what they say and do.
Hey Mr. Neanderthal man, If you want a private flight go pay for it. One child making a little noise for a few minutes is not a big deal. How about the loud ass music you probably play on your i-pod or your smelly ass feet when you take off your shoes on the plane or your over abundance of carry-on luggage. Dude do us all a favor and just drive if you can't handle being around people.
OK so everyone has there own opinion so here is mine do I agree with what they did NO. I have 5 children and comments have been made that you do not take kids on a plane until they are old enough well sometime that is not possible. Not everyone lives or is stationed her in the USA. So many people want to travel and see their loved ones JUST LIKE YOU DO. Do i think you should control them yes but when it comes to kids just because you have a 2yr old raising hell does not mean you are not a good parent it means hmmm maybe they are tired, scared or who knows what. If most other ADULTS(not the parents) would take the time to say hello to the kids or make a goofy face at them maybe they would calm down faster. As an adult you hate being coped up in a small airplane for hours with kids on it well MAYBE you should fly first class or hey charter a flight that is only you on it. BEACUSE just like you the mother and child also paid good hard earned money to be on that flight. If we as adults could learn to lend a helping hand every now and then and worry about what others are going thru just maybe it would help this world be a much better place.
I dont know what this big fat or big f calls parental skill, anyone can have a bad day regardless of age, when you now come to thik of a two years old that has got no clue of what his going on at that moment. You will expect someone at age 2 to use crying to express themselves and make demenads. I think sending the poor mum off the flight is a way too hard on her and I will consider this a slap on all parents all over the world.
Most likely that parent paid for her ticket and her childs ticket. Try to control a 2 year old and see how lucky you are. A child screaming has nothing to do with parenting skills. Sometimes the airline and the weather has a lot to do with that child's behavior. I have been delayed due to weather and had to sit in a packed airport with my toddler for 7 hours after my flight. The airline did not help me out one bit and did not provide any extra benefits due to my inconvenience. You want first class service pay the extra fee.
1. I've flown w/ SW and crying baby. The flight attendants were doing a good job of calming the kid (I would guess 1-2 yr old). Matter of fact the only time the kid shut up was when they were there b/c the parent was happy to ignore the screaming brat and let us deal. Either way, SW staff did a good job of handling it and didn't kick the kid/parent off the flight, so this is an isolated incident.
2. This happened b/c the rest of the passengers couldn't hear the safety stuff. I've seen them make ppl take of headphones and stuff for the safety talk. They have a duty to make sure everyone hears it (even if they aren't paying attention). What if there was a first time flyer who wanted to know that stuff? I know a lot of you get on a plane and take it for granted, but I work in a high risk job where I've been in the situations that required me to do the "here is what you do in this situation" stuff and I can tell you that knowing by heart what you are supposed to do is the only way you stand a chance.
3. To those of you saying the kid would get tired of screaming eventually NO THEY DON"T. I had to fly from Denver to Baltimore with screaming brat from #1 the whole way!
4. I'd fly adults only (or no babies/kids under 10) airline anytime. I think they should at least offer flight times that don't allow kids (no, 10pm to 2am your local time is not a good flight for jr... pay the extra money for a decent flight time or don't take the kiddo along)
5. If you must take a kid on a plane, do your best to control them and occupy their time. AND they have to follow the rules too. I once almost missed a landing time (and would be stuck in the air for 30 more min) b/c an inconsiderate parent was letting her kid run up and down the aisle as we were buckled in and starting to make our approach for the landing. That is a parent who deserves to be on the "do not fly" list. If jr got hurt, she'd be the first to sue the airline.
First of all the child did pay- anyone over 1 pays for a seat....so that tells me you are not a parent. and second, who are we to judge her parenting skills, a 2 year old cannot reason, no matter how good of a parent you are, You couldnt at 3 either so have a heart.
Parents have a huge sense of entitlement these days. Yes, I have been kicked for hours during flight and the Mom was angry when I asked her to get her child to stop. I have endured hours of screaming, whilde the dad zoned out with his earphones and a gameboy thing. I have been asked (and not in a nice way but with attitude) to change my seat so a child could see out the window after I went to a lot of trouble to get that seat (nausea issue) I was harrassed for over an hour by a hyperactive child travelling alone. When he finally screamed at me "I am talking to you, you need to pay attention to me, why aren't you playing with me!" I said"Because I would like to have a quiet flight." the entire plane of passengers broke out into spontaneous applause. I too have had $100 meals ruined by kids. As a parent i learned to never put my kids in situations that taxed their endurance beyond a certain level (hours of shopping, grown up movies etc) I think part of the problem is all the kids are in daycare these days and in a big group situation the only way to get attention to your needs is to be the loudest. Dont ask for what you want go into instant meltdown behavior (see this all the time in the grocery store). They used to have no smoking zones in planes and restaurants, how about no kid zones? Just because I can't afford 1st class do I have no right to expect civil behavior from my fellow passengers? Do parents think that their kids are an excuse for everything?
you in great moron i guess you are an expert on the control of a smile child,you probaly dont have children and you think you are an expert.i guess if the mother had taped the childs mouth shut with duct tape or beat him til he passes out you would then want her arrested for child abuse.
I am angry that SW backed down, apologized, then compensated her? Out of control 2 yr old. who still wears diapers? Let me repeat...A 2 year old who still wears diapers???? Really?? The mom either has no parenting skills, or her 2 yr old son runs her. I vote both. I guess SW saw a gold digger calling her lawyer!
Has everybody totally missed the point here? The passengers couold not hear the SAFETY briefing, or other crew announcements. SAFETY!!
Not parenting skills, not poorly trained child, not who paid for what. SAFETY!!!
The airline was correct, and should not apologize or compensate anything.
Did you say parenting skills? If a child cries, it has nothing to do with parenting skills. How about if the child or baby is teething, or ear infection, or... Let me guess... You don't have any kids. No parenting skills...... PLEASE! Suck it up!
Has anyone had this experience-- you're in the supermarket and a child is crying, screaming, or otherwise raisin' cain.....and Mommy just blocks it out and continues calmly and slowly selecting items without any attempt at comforting the child???? I usually try to quickly wrap-up my errand and get the heck outta dodge before I have an anxiety attack ('cause if an adult has a loud meltdown in a public place you can bet your butt they will get hauled out!)
So, on a plane you don't really have much recourse, right? Either the parent stops the ruckus or the flight attendant does or everyone should be given a complimentary Xanax.
PS - why not give small unpredictable children a small dose of antihistamine prior to the flight to induce a calm, sleepy state?
Don"t make me come back there!
A 2 yr old is a baby. What do people expect? Some of the posts are laughable. Reading some of the posts is like most imagine the 2 yr old to behave like this "Excuse me sir, I need to get to my seat. May I?" LOL. When its a child under 3 its expected that they will act out at some point; its a baby. Thats what they do and no matter how good a parent you think you are they will act out at some point. Maybe they should try giving out crayons and coloring books onboard or something similar to keep them entertained like they do in restaurants while the safety drill is going on. It sounds to me like the crew didn't have enough experience to deal with this kind of situation.
Okay, I have flown "Screaming Baby Airlines" before and it is terrible. But screaming babies ususally have a reason. I don't blame the mother, usually she is as frustrated by the screaming as her fellow passengers. You often just have to suck it up and hope the kid falls asleep. The ones I have a problem with are the parents that let their kids run up and down the aisle of the plane, jump and hang on the seat back (usually mine) or kick the back of the seat. These parents are responsible for allowing this kind of behavior and should be thrown off (over Cleveland if possible). That being said, there are plenty of so-called adults who also don't know how to behave on a plane and should be ejected as well (drunks, the "unwashed", the foul-mouthed, the loud, the obnoxious, well, the list goes on). It would be nice if there was an option of adult-only flights, however as noted, there are plenty of adults I don't care to fly with as well. Just sayin'
Are you joking? This is a 2 year old. The best parent with the best parenting skills can't control a 2 year old. I have had to sit on a full flight with a person who was so overweight, her body fell into my seat and she had to have the armrest up. No one kicked her off the flight...and I didn't ask...I figured I would have my comfort after leaving the flight. I've had to sit next to more than one person who stunk so terribly I could hardly breathe...but no one kicked them off the flight...and I didn't ask...I figured I would have my nice air after the flight. Shame on the intolerant...they better be prepared to always be perfect for the rest of their lives on every flight.
I agree that Southwest should have the right to remove someone if their conduct is disruptive to the rest of the passengers on the flight. That includes children. The other passengers' rights shouldn't be stepped on so that one child can make the flight miserable for everyone. Granted - flying is considered "public" transportation, but being a "public" form of transportation means that you have to be sensitive to the rest of the "public's" rights - not just your own. I've flown on an international flight where there was a 2 or 3 year old that screamed for their mommy or daddy almost the entire time because the child couldn't decide if they wanted to sit in mommy's or daddy's lap the whole time (parents were sitting across the aisle from each other.) When you are stuck in an airplane for 7 hours plus with a child that is screaming the whole time, it is totally unbearable and miserable!!! Where were my rights to relax, rest and enjoy my flight?
I paid over $900 to sit on that miserable flight. Public transportation or not - that is a lot of money to sit through that kind of misery and have no recourse. I couldn't choose to get off the plane once we were in the air, so how was Southwest to know that the Mom "knew" her child would calm down once the plane took off? Southwest did the right thing. In my opinion - First, give a warning, second a verbal warning stating you will be removed and put on another flight if the child is unable to comply, Third warning - be removed and put on a different flight.
I have 2 children - and I wouldn't want my kids to make others that miserable and would feel completely embarrassed if they did. My job as their parent is to teach them how to behave appropriately and I am not afraid to let them know when they need to correct their behavior; even at the age of 2.
Let's think about this a minute. Yesterday Southwest was throwing a young woman off because she was, according to the flight crew, exposing too much of herself with her scanty clothing. Now, it's because a 2 year old disrupted the safety announcements. You may be next for some reason or another. Southwest, as a whole, have given flight crews the green light to evict passengers from flights based upon spontaneously developed criteria. The answer for me then is to not purchase tickets on Southwest. I fly American all of the time and even if children are quiet during take off they are often unconsolable during the flight because of discomforts caused by cabin pressure or the level of noise. Do I like it? Not at all. Do I let it bother me? Nope. Life's way too short.
It has nothing to do about parenting skills. It has everything to do with a child getting locked in a "not so kid friendly" cabin. I would freak if my daughter did the same and she certainly has in the past but that does not reflect on parenting skills. Put on your headsets and deal with it people. Southwest obviously realizes the marketing error they have made and seems to be working at correcting the error. For as many as you out there that are happy about what happened and will fly Southwest even more, there are many more with children that would rather take another airline.
Parents today just cant be bothered – its easier just to ignore the kids and let them scream. Doesn’t bother them, they’re used to it. I raised 2 boys, who are now grown family men with their own families and homes. When they were young we took a twelve hour flight to visit my husband’s family. We didn’t have ONE incident because we knew how to be PARENTS!!! I see parents today travel with nothing in tow and that AMAZES me!!!!! I always carried a tote bag with cars, action figures, crayons, snacks, etc. This was back in the day when you actually had to pack your own (not prepackaged). This went with us EVERYWHERE – airplanes, restaurants, friends houses, doctor appts., you name it. Our children were taught how to behave and we watched them closely. We didn’t depend on recalls to protect them, we did it ourselves. Parents today just knock the kids out and drop them off at daycare or let them roam the streets. How many actually accompany their children to sports practices? No – they drop them and run. They’re too busy. We both worked full time, coached baseball and soccer and worked the stands. Parents today cant be bothered!
Thank you Guest-397120 - I agree totally with you - I have 2 children and when we went on trips and I don't care if it's by car or plane - kids get bored and get bored easily - they've also learned that fit throwing gets them exactly what they want (attention). I used to pack just like you and I used to take the time whether in the car or the grocery store to make it a learning adventure, but again - the parents of today (not all but most) have absolutely no qualms about dragging a screaming child through a grocery store or mall as the rest of us have to listen to it, why because it might inconvenience them by having to leave and come back when the child had either calmed down or they had found a sitter - yes all children have melt downs, but guess what as parents were responsible for making sure that meltdown doesn effect everyone else - it's called common courtesy - something I'm finding less and less these days - If you know you have to fly - trying doing it at nite (wheny typically they'll sleep thru it or before or after nap time and if they are truly afraid of flying (which at 2 they tend to be afraid of alot things) then for sanity sake don't make them fly - again common courtesy.
Flown a lot myself, I apparently missed all of these tantrums kids are throwing all over the skies of the world. I have however had to put up with fat people in the seats around me taking up my space or bashing the front or back of my seat; people with poor hygiene or loud, boorish behavior, etc. Let's start kicking those people off too, especially since I bet the people who spend all of their time whining about kids are likely some of the people I am talking about....
i am wondering when , if ever, people will start to teach kids manners and how to obey, again? I was one of ten children and we knew better than to ever throw a fit like that or to bother other people. I raised four of my own and they to knew that they could not mis behave when it would bother others. Now every where you go there are rude , unruly kids. My husband and I went out for an anniverary dinner and someone's kid, Whose snotty nose just reached the top of our table spent the whole evening standing there staring at us and watching every bite we ate!
I could go on and on , as I am sure everyone else could too!
Thank you
There are plenty of little monsters out there, to be sure, but I am actually encouraged by how many of my (quite well-behaved, thank you) little kids' friends are themselves polite and well-mannered. Not saying you don't have a point - you do - but it's not that people have stopped good parenting; just that the percentage has dropped. There is hope, because there are a lot of really great kids out there.
are you forgetting that this child is only TWO??? Can you honestly tell me that your two year olds were perfect angels? NO!!!
I totally agree!!! These responders must be childless. Two year olds will be cranky and eventually settle down. When I fly I am amazed how rude people can be to parents in regards to a cranky child. Get over it people!!!! It is a child and flying is hard on them just like us adults and they tend to be a little cranky. Personally I think the hired help on airplanes today have forgotten we pay to fly with them and they are probably worse than that there two year old.
It doesn't matter how old the child is. Children who misbehave and parents that allow it should not be able to be in an enclosed area with the general public. Take the bus or sedate the child. I just flew back from Hawaii and there was a screaming child in the same row as me for almost 6 hours! I wasn't angry at the kid as much as I was at the mother. She didn't see anything wrong with the situation. It was like she was used to it. Unbelievable.
My son flew with twin 2 year old boys and they had been waiting at the airport for over an hour to get on the plane. When they would start to get rowdy, Mom or Dad would take them back to the rest room for a little quiet time. They were really good for 99% of the 3 hour trip.
I have flown w/ my kids since they were 3-4 weeks old -- they are now teenagers. In large part, they were great travelers and show it now. But, I had some flights from hell -- either through their being overly tired (had to keep to airline schedule) and/or an ear infection I didn't know about until the flight. This reaction was ridiculous -- it is not like being in a restaurant/store where you can walk out to calm the infant.
When I was 2 years old, I had the social skills and reading ability of a 4th grader, and my parents basically told me if I wanted to earn candy or my favorite toy from the toy store, I had to earn it by behaving, and if I screamed because I didn't get the toy, my mom immediately took me home. No toy, nothing. I either had to learn to take No for an answer and earn my keep from day 1 or I didn't get anything.
First off you make a CHOICE when you decide to have children period. You now have the added responsibility of that child and its actions whether it is keeping them civil/quiet on a crowded airplane or being legally responsible when they crash a car and injure someone when they are a teenage driver etc... You are now held accountable for that childs behavior until they are an adult.
I'm also sick of the fact that people that choose NOT to have kids are automatically burdened by those that do. It's not enough that we have to endure obnoxious, loud, snotty noised brats during what should be a relaxing, peaceful dinner, but now people that choose not to have kids have to pay additional taxes and such to support the education & state programs for children that are not theirs? WTF?
Exactly, zeebidee! Good parents are those who care enough to learn how to handle their children. Children need (and want) boundaries.
It is actually more comforting to a child to know what will and what won't be tolerated.
The same parents that shrug off the misbehavior of their out-of-control 2-year old will be the same parents scratching their heads and blaming "society" when their precious little monster turns into a 14-year old delinquent.
with all due respect MW, those kids that you are paying taxes for now, will be the ones paying your social security later.
Fine, end social security. I don't need the 1k a month. Stop taking SS taxes from my paycheck and you keep your kid quite.
So? Who lives off of Social Security?
Real people with real careers live off of pensions, 401Ks and IRAs.
Also, as a journalism major, I obviously plan to become a journalist. We don't retire...
SERIOUSLY.....Although there was someone that once told me that when I get old, those kids that aren't mine will be Dr.'s and Politicians. So if I want them to be educated well enough to take care of me when I'm old then I guess paying a little more tax is okay. Plus it's cheeper than acutally raising the little hellions and I don't even have to change diapers or put my life on hold raising one.
But I do agree, it is very annoying when the Choosing to Have Children people forget what it was like when they DIDN'T have kids.
I'm not having kids cause I know that I am selfish and I want to live my life for ME not any offspring. I don't care if I end up in a 'home' when I'm old cause I don't have kids to care for me. I wouldn't want to be a burden on my family anyway. Plus, when you're that bad that you end up in a 'home', you probably aren't living anyway, you're just existing. Sad but true.
Why have children if your intention is just to pay them back for having to raise them!
Excuse me???? Today the 401k has tanked, the pension isn't big enough and wwithout social security my husband and I would be in poor shape. Perhaps MW will grow up soon and stop seeing the world in black and white.
Two years old is not a controllable age. I took three kids five and under half way round the world and the older two were great. The little one (18 months) swore the seatbelt made her throw up. I hate crying kids on the airplane, also, but I have also seen mother's doing their darndest to quiet scared, tired, screaming toddlers. MW, I'd be interested to see how you manage a "terrible two" confined into a tiny space on an airplane.
Chris,
Are you suggesting MW isn't paying into SS now? Anyway you slice it, those of us who have chosen to not have children still pay taxes to feed and educate the children others choose to have. I am not complaining mind you, just pointing out the truth.
I think airlines need an area just for parents with tots thats isolated by thick walls and kool-aid on the other side.If they can do it for two pilots they surely can do it for 250 fliers on the same plane.
I bought my ticket so my kid can scream as loud as they want=dumbass
Most parents don't care about themselves their children or anyone else and this is evident everytime you fly and there's a two year old aboard.
900.00 dollars for a one way ticket and listen to some kid whine and scream all the way,hell no.
chris from pax- doubtful- they are not being raised properly and they will almost certainly not be able to hold jobs....they will be the reason SSI goes broke.
So if you don't have a pension or a 401K or an IRA then you aren't a REAL person eh "skunk"?
Really big of you to take that attitude. I saw some of your other comments too. You are a real community activist and model citizen aren't you? Maybe you should go on the speaking circuit for Boy Scout and Girl Scout troops to teach them about tolerance and helping others... it'd be a great use of that obviously well-earned journalism degree.
Wow... as my kids would say... epic fail!
Jansa, I have the same questions. I think it's lazy parenting. People have kids as if they are fashion accessories, then when they found out how much work it is to raise them, esp. the discipline, they don't put in the effort. Then they excuse the kids' behavior and attack people who protest it. I grew up in the Baby Boom era and there were tons of kids everywhere you went and I don't remember any kid throwing a fit in public, except a couple of times a kid would cry or something at church on Sun. a.m. and one of the parents would leave with the child.
The fact that this mother demands an apology without realizing that she should be the one apologizing tells me that this kid has no chance of being a civilized member of society. He is being raised by a selfish mother, so he'll likely never learn consideration for other and manners. There are millions of mothers like her - go to any classoom, grocery store aisle or department store and see the awful behavior exhibited by kids.
We started very young with our daughter, when she would act up in a public place we would remove her from the situation. First of course we made sure nothing was wrong. Many times one of us would finish a meal alone in a resteraunt while the other sat in car with her. She learned fast what behavior was expected of her. But we also had a bag of things for her to do. Books, crayons and small toys so she would not be bored.
People with small children are not the only people in the world and they are not the first with a child. How would she feel if it was another persons child screaming on plane?
Chris....you pay into your own social security, no one else pays into it for you. I am not far from collecting but it but it won't be there when I am due it because the government has depleted it. This thing reminds me of a joke I heard once......
Parents take a baby to the movies. They are told if the baby makes a fuss, they will be asked to leave, their ticket money refunded. The baby make no fuss but the movie sucks. One parent says to the other....quick, pinch the baby.
Iagree, when are we going to go back to teaching our children boundaries, respect, polite behavior? My mother raised 5 kids of her own and babysat for another 500 or more and ran a nursery/daycare. She always said there are no terrible 2yr olds, only terrible 2yr old parents. If we kick misbehaving, obnoxious adults off a plane, why not a screaming child?
Benadryl.
Ah, looking at things through rose-colored glasses...
People were better at that in the good old days...
Sarcasm aside, there are so many people here complaining about the parents and ill-mannered kids...You all sound like ill-mannered adults to me. What a bunch of mean spirited, hateful people.
rjkardo--Nothing mean spirited about expecting civility. Yes, whether you like it or not, there has been much coarsening in our culture.
To you idiots who do not know how social security works. You do not pay into an acount that you draw out of post retirement. The vast majority of SSN recipients receive far more than they paid into it and that money comes from current payees. The whole system relies on population and salary growth to fund itself and without current payees (todays children) your retired self would be broke. Ditto with Medicare and Medicaid (which almost all of you will be on when you hit the nursing homes). If you don't know how the system works don't talk and make yourself look ignorant. And the one thing all of you whining childless forget, is someone had to put up with your spoiled self, and going by your whining you were little terrors.
Doesn't make any difference how we feel or whether we agree or not. That airplane is under the command of the pilot and he can throw any one he wants off. Final word!
really? so the pilot can kick off someone for being black, asian or hispanic? pilots are like bus drivers of the sky -- unless it's a safety issue, they should not be kicking anybody off a plane.
Thanks, edw, for introducing the race card. I'd wager there is not a single Newvine column where it is NOT played.
By the way, why didn't you include white people? Is it because you are a minority racist?
This has absolutely nothing to do with race, nor is that a pertinent concern. No need to interject undue racial paranoia or defensiveness where it doesn't belong. A squalling 2 year old would be a distraction to the pilot who's operating a 200 ton metal vehicle at 40,000 ft and everyone on the plane, including the self-righteous idiotic woman and her ill-mannered child should be THANKING the pilot for having the foresight to realize he shouldn't risk eveyone else's life because she obviously doesn't discipline and over-indulges her child. She should be ashamed of herself.
feel free to replace the racial reference with body size, shape or any other distinguishing characteristic you feel like -- thats not the point. and no i dont think white people should be kicked off planes either.
if you read carefully i said nobody should be kicked off a plane -- unless its a safety issue.
Well, I am an airline pilot and I've thrown people off for being drunk, disorderly, argumentative, and stinky. The captain is not a bus driver, and I challenge the poster to attain my qualifications and experience and still spew the lack of respect for my position. Unruly children are usually not an issue, but if my cabin crew expresses a concern, they're going back to the gate.
Really? Come on, with the training anyone can fly. Can you weld? I can. Can you code an OS? No? I didn't think so. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back when your cohorts are missing an airstrip by 150 miles. A skill is a skill. We all have different skills but that doesn' t make us a GOD in what we do. Get over yourself dude.
I totally agree with Hologram5.
Anyways, being a bus driver, in someways, is probably tougher than being a pilot. I don't envy bus drivers that have to drive an articulated, 2 section, 50 foot long bus through downtown traffic swarming with taxis and pedestrians.
Thanks, edw, for showing what an ignorant person you are...
You think flying a commercial airliner is like driving a bus? Hope to see you on my next flight....you'll be booted just to raise the IQ average for the rest of the passengers.
"king of the jungle jive?" and edw is the racist? I agree there needs to be more of a reason than a 2 year old acting like a 2 year old to kick him/her off of a plane. Children are not adults and toddlers, especially don't even come close to behaving like they are. I took Amtrak from California to Chicago once and was annoyed by a mother from California to Colorado, who kept punishig her toddler because she wouldn't sit still. Now what toddler is going to sit still on a ride from California to Colorado. I thought a plane ride would have been more apropos. The truth is: Parents have to be able to travel with toddlers and babies. And we need to all remember we were once toddlers and babies, and I don't know about you but I was a cranky one for whatever reason.
Hologram5, you are an idiot, because you used two stupid and unrelated examples. The guy was just introducing his authority on speaking on the situation, because he is an airline pilot. We call that qualifying our statements, very much unlike what you just did.
By the way, I doubt you can "code an OS" either, just because of the way you worded that statement.
Bob, I think the majority of people are ignorant what it takes to attain the position in the left seat of any airliner. This guy is just representative of most WalMart shoppers that lack a formal education. Maybe he can weld himself a 20 million dollar jet and fly himself wherever he needs to go.
The captain of a commercial airliner has the final authority to do whatever he wants in relation to that aircraft once it's under his control. If someone or something is causing a disturbance, we take the appropriate action. Sometimes a warning is enough. Obviously this time it was not.
edw, go F! yourself!
Many a fat chick has been kicked off a plane. It is not only legal, it is encouraged.
Sorry- yes the parents must travel, but I do not need to travel with them. Why not sell adults only flights?? Bet you would be surprised how many people would opt for that!! Yes morbidly bese people have been taken off flights- but not enough!! I can't count the times I have been seated next to someone who done lapped over the seat- I am not small, but I can stay in my seat!! The airlines have made the planes smaller and smaller and packed more people in, and the flight attendants are over worked and they react!!
Flight crews are highly trained in more skills than most people apparently comprehend in any clear and logical way, and at the dawn of the early 21st century in our great nation it is patently ignorant--if not downright stupid--to question the actions and directions of the flight crew, no matter what the rank, perceived role, or demeanor of any particular flight crew member might appear to be at the time . . .
For all practical purposes, your rights end the instant you arrive at the airport, and this is as much for your protection and safety as it is for the protection and safety of others . . .
There are several reasons for paying great attention to the lawful orders of flight crews:
(1) There might be imminent danger of a terrorist attack, and the flight crew might be using a misbehaved child as an excuse to return the airplane to the terminal so that U. S. Air Marshalls or other law enforcement can deal with the terrorists . . .
(2) You not only can but will be arrested for interfering with the flight crew, and federal courts are not the least bit lenient when sentencing for this type of federal offense . . .
(3) The parent of the misbehaved child might be a terrorist, and strange as it might be, the misbehaved child or the parent might have had some type of explosive device implanted surgically--noting that while this has not occurred in our great nation, so far, it has occurred elsewhere, although with typically older children, adolescents, and adults . . .
(4) There could be an undercover U. S. Air Marshall on the airplane who might not interpret your ranting and raving correctly, in which case if you do not follow the instructions given by the flight crew, you might not make to your intended destination alive . . .
(5) The commotion and distraction caused by the misbehaved child could be part of an highly orchestrated scheme to hijack the airplane, where it is a planned diversion designed to shift the focus of the flight crew so that they do not notice something else that might be happening . . .
And so forth and so on . . .
Disturbing and frightening as this might be, all you need to know to understand this clearly is what happened to the fellow in England who the police suspected of being a terrorist, perhaps with explosives on his person, and what happened when they ordered the fellow to stop running but he ignored them; continued running; and then jumped onto a bus . . .
The British police did precisely what they were trained to do in such a situation, which is based on the advice from the best experts on this planet--the Israelis--and, they fired their weapons at point blank range into the fellow's head until there were no more rounds in their weapons . . .
The reason is that if a terrorist has a "dead man switch" or whatever, the only way to prevent it from being used literally and physically is to disconnect the brain from the body, which requires hitting and destroying a very specific part of the brain, and since there are only seconds to do this, with no guarantees that it will work, the advice is to shoot first; to shoot often; and to ask questions later . . .
On an airplane, the flight crew is GOD, and you do not want to try to second-guess GOD, which is fabulous . . .
http://www.surfwhammys.com/music/11_Im_In_The_Mood_For_Christmas.mp3
Fabulous!
Baldenario...there you are........ Please stop by the Pets in the News Group. WE miss you http://groups.google.com/group/pets-in-the-news
EXCELLENT post Baldenario!!
Cudos to loafman99. I'm glad that at least one poster is a legitimate airline pilot and is telling it how it is. As I recall from this article, it's about the decision making of what a pilot or captain can do in a situation as it relates to this story. I'm not going to judge loafman99 with the same pilots from Northwest Airlines that missed their landing by more than 150 miles. Some pilots make mistakes and he wasn't one of them. I respect loafman99's opinions since he is a PILOT. He's not a welder, he's not a software engineer. He's a pilot. I dare anyone to call a pilot simply an airplane taxi driver when he holds the lives of few hundred people at more than 30,000ft in the air. Deep down, we all have a lot of respect for these men and women who ferry us in the air across country. I definitely respect them. Glad to hear from you loafman99. And thank you for your efforts and what you do for us as an airline pilot.
To Baldenario, the pilot nor theflight crew is GOD.(just saying) They can't keep the plane in the skies despite their training and education. (I know most of them are very well educated and higly trained) Doctors and medical personnel are not GOD either(some think they are). To the person who called the flight attendants "hired help" you are in need of home training and descipline more than that 2y/o. I once heard some one refer to nurses as "ass cleaners". How demeaning we can get, we are all hired help wether you work for someone or are the business owner. I bet a lot of you who are being so crass and rude don't have the guts to say these things on TV where you can be identified. Thank God for America and free speech however we are talking about a child, maybe some one could have helpped this mom out by asking the mom if she minded some help, children most times will react favorably to some one else other than their parent. I have done it on occasions and it works!
While I think your suggestion is a noble idea, I really don't think that would go over too well with the parent of the misbehaving child! They would most likely start yelling at YOU, thus raising the level of the disturbance even more... How many times have we seen store clerks, restaurant employees, hotel staff and the like gently, politely, try to coax parents of unruly children to "keep an eye on (or whatever euphemism)" or offer to help divert their child's behavior (in many cases to protect said child's safety) only to have the parent(s) start screaming that THEY have been treated in some unconscionable fashion?
While these are not identical circumstances, I'm sure you get my point, and have seen the same. Perhaps the parent that you offered assistance to was genuinely grateful; It seems, just given the examples cited above, that that would be the exception, not the norm. The general rule now seems to be that parents have the God-given right to subject the whole of society to their kids' most awful, gasp-inducing behavior, and everyone else just has to suck it up and DEAL with it. How DARE anyone say otherwise to them, or have the NERVE to try to help? Hmm, and the general consensus seems to be that childless-by-choice people are selfish...
But, I digress. Bravo to you for your humane suggestion, even if the "it takes a village..." approach is a fantasy in our thoughtless times. And apologies to those parents who do not fit the above description. Shame on those of you who do, and I'm quite sure you have no idea who you are.
Right on, Ellen. And safety is the whole crew's primary consideration.
Brew_City_Chick: Baldenario provides his advice to the novices who need it most, but he is planning to visit the pet forum, soon, although other than prices being a bit outrageous (as in 50 percent higher over last year), it appears either that the Red Chinese have stopped sneaky weaseling or have found a less dangerous way to do it, where the latter is the most likely of the two scenarios . . .
And you might be interested to discover that Baldenario has embarked on a new career as an entertainer based on the advice given to him years ago by Bob at the employment counseling center, where the two career choices were (a) professional truck driver and (b) Rock and Roll teen idol in Japan . . .
So far, Baldenario's pretend Rock and Roll band (The Surf Whammys) has sold over one album in Japan--grossing upward of $5.95--and plans are under way for a new holiday album, featuring such soon to be classics as, "Santa's Very Jolly" and "Happy New Year! (I'm Not Wearing Underpants)", which is fabulous . . .
http://www.surfwhammys.com/music/11_Im_In_The_Mood_For_Christmas.mp3
Fabulous! :D
P. S. Thanks for the kind words, doctorsteph!
Did anyone stop to think that maybe it was not the fact that the child was simply misbehaving, but that the mom was not makeing an effort to control it. I have been on many flights that a child became difficult, the parent(s) also attempted to quiet the child, only the most intolent of the passengers seemed irritated, but when the parent(s) did not respond or thought junior was just the cutest did people get pissed. I also have seen flights where the chilren were seated far away from the parents and the Flight Attendent was informed as to how they were to babysit the ill behaved little bast**ds.
"I'm also sick of the fact that people that choose NOT to have kids are automatically burdened by those that do. It's not enough that we have to endure obnoxious, loud, snotty noised brats during what should be a relaxing, peaceful dinner, but now people that choose not to have kids have to pay additional taxes and such to support the education & state programs for children that are not theirs? WTF? "
Actually, it is those loud snotty little kids who will be taking care of your selfish self in your golden years. Maybe they should just toss you out of that bed in your nursing home since you don't want anyone to be a burden on society. I guess you conveniently forgot someone had to put up with and take care of your obviously spoiled snotty childhood self. You selfish, whining childless are not only ignorant of how socities work but your whining is a grate on the ears of the rest of us that have to put up with it.
Absolutely they were right to do this. As for reimbursing her for diapers? All of a sudden her child is toilet trained and has no use for them at home? Give me a break. Reimburse her for her ticket only. She hasn't even lost a day of work. Everyone else pid a lot of money for their ticket for a nice quiet plane trip, not as admission to listen to her out of control child's screaming.
YEAH SW Airlines! Finally putting a stop to spoiled rotten children & their over-doting parents encroaching on the peace & serentiy of others. Flying is stressful enough. I hope the 'investigation' supports the stewardesses decision and this puts bad parents on notice.
People don't want to deal with loud obnoxious children any more than loud obnoxious adults!
I agree, how many of the tolerant parents would be so tolerant of obnoxious teenagers because after all they are just acting like the kids they are or is there a different expectation.
I have experienced hell... a few years ago I was flying back and forth every week. My idea of hell is any flight between Phoenix and Salt Lake City. It's not uncommon for the first 10 rows to look like a preschool field trip. God I don't miss those days. An ipod can drown out the screaming a bit but it can't help you when the little snot is having a fit and kicking the $h1t outta the back of your seat. Do the parents care?? ....nope From a seasoned traveler that still enjoys flying THANK YOU SOUTHWEST for making a move on passenger comfort.
Any suggestions on how to handle the adult sitting behind you kicking the crap out of your kidneys for 5 hours flying half way across the country? This has happened to me twice in the last 2 months...and they are not even aware they are doing it and oblivious to the stares when I turn around and glare at them!!!!
you can handle it by buying a first class ticket.
Yeah, Donna, here's a tip. Unless you are a mute, say something! If they are unaware and oblivious to your killer stare, as you say, try another sense. How about simply asking them to stop? If you are too cowardly simply to ask a polite question to a stranger, you deserve to get kicked. You obviously weren't afraid to give them the look of death. And if you ARE a mute, hand them a nice note.
Donna-talk to the flight personel, they will respond by talking to the individual, directly.
I had to laugh at the people who say two year olds do not know consequences!! What did they raise, turnips?? A newborn knows that if it cries, it will get food, eater, dry pants, picked up.. DUH!!
First of all I am embarrassed for the woman who has the nads to even think of retaliating!! She should be mortified that THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE were inconvienced because of her, regardless of her parenting or child's tolerated behavior. If it was a medical reason(otitis media, strep, UTI ADHD mental challenge, what ever, just think of the ramifications of all this:she forces a professional crew to return to the boot, then re-taxi, probably sit on the tarmac for who-knows how long, then all those passengers had planned their schedules, the airline had theirs, so everyone at both destinations for that entire twenty four hour schedule had to make different accomodations, whether for meetings, buses, other flights, hotel reservations, diabetic injection and/or dietary needs, funerals, vacation plans, others meeting them at various airports, BUT we are supposed to actually HAHA,, swallow this crap about not understanding a two year old??
I am one of seven children, have flown,rail-trailed, driven, hiked, cruised all over the world, flown every class in each mode, but the worst is sociopathic parents who believe that their kids are the cutest, most adorable when they are climbing over and under the seats, spitting on people, throwing things, screaming, etc, while parents watch a movie, talk, read, sleep or watch these little tolerated people make others miserable, knowing that the airline will do anything to avoid bad press, lawsuits, or loss of revenue. And yes, I do have children that have flown from NY to L.A as little ones, and they knew consequences!! I hope this woman was on her way to get a hysterectomy!!
Her family should also be mortified about this!! BTW, years ago my co-worker was eating in a Denny's restaurant and her son got BANNED FOR LIFE from any Dennys for disrupting the entire resaurant from his HIGH CHAIR he was 13 months old!!!!The whole place applauded the management too!!I would bet my entire estate that the passengers and flight attendants on that flight were popping champagne corks like popcorn when those two deplaned!! Now the mother knows consequences, do you think she will pass them on to this kid??HA!
I applaud the captain's choice to give the normal passengers the flight they paid for!! GO loafman!!
Yeh, I was just going to reply "only one screaming child?" try flying to or from SLC.
Perhaps, since most airlines fly several flights a day to each destination, they should advertise one as "child friendly" and offer some incentive for parents to take this flight and it would warn non-parents what to expect.
So....for all you folks calling the people who are applauding SW's decision @$$es, head to page 7 (at least it was page 7 yesterday...may be further down by now). THERE, if you choose to actually read rather than post insults, is the "information" you so crave...from an individual who not only was ON the plane, but sat BEHIND the woman and her obnoxious brat.
In a nutshell, the flight attendants DID try. The child was OUT OF CONTROL even before he boarded the plane! It was the MOTHER who failed in a BIG way by failing to control her child. The MOTHER thought it was FUNNY, until her happy @$$, along with her obnoxious child were being escorted off the aircraft.
SW did the right thing. They chose the rights of the rest of the passengers to have a peaceful flight over the rights of one idiotic parent and her screaming child.
I travel to Asia for business and pleasure all the time. Despite being in kid-friendly places such as zoos, theaters, etc, I've never heard a screaming baby, 2 year old, or child in any of these places. In Asia parents are simply so embarrassed by their child's poor behavior they instantly remove them from the scene and react. This creates a sitation where kids are well-behaved ALL THE TIME. Being Asian myself, I can say that I never behaved that way as a child, despite extensive travel even at a young age. People would always remark to my mother how good her child was on the plane. Perhaps American parents just need to learn more responsibility, instead of making well he/she is only 2 excuses.
Finally! Thank you Yaddayadda
They need to remove those kids from the grocery store, too. My siblings and I knew better than to act that way, my own kids know better than to act that way. Having flown with small children I know that it's possible for them to behave. First you teach your kids how to behave and then you pack enough things to keep them from getting antsy while flying. Parents who refuse to control their children <and yes it is a choice made by parents> shouldn't be allowed to have them at all.
Once on a flight from San Juan, PR to JFK, we had a mother who was encouraging her child to make noises with some silly rhymes. I asked if she did not realize that she and the child were disturbing the rest of the passengers. She jumped up and ran through the cabin screaming that I had assaulted her child. We were met by police at the gate at JFK. Hurray for the flight crew on this Southwest flight!
If that had happened to me I think I would have made calls to several local newspapers and had reporters waiting at the terminal when the plane landed. Some people get through life by intimidating those around them. Ever heard the term "tyranny of the minority"? A loss of common sense. That's what we have in this country now. Can't help but wonder how your experience turned out!
Sorry folks, I can't agree with you. I have flown with a 2 yo beofre, and I understand it can be very troublesome, but a mother (or Father) cannot always make sure their child is well-behaved. The woman paid for her ticket, and like it or not, she deserved the chance to complete her flight. Should she have taken better care to see that her child behaved, of course...but kids do not always take to flying at 30K ft.
Yes, the woman did pay for her ticket, but most likely her child did not. All other passengers on the plane have also paid their ticket, but they do not disrupt the airplane to the point where the pilot and crew cannot do their job. If you know your child can act up, either find alternative ways that are less disruptive to the majority, or don't travel with a child until they're old enough to behave. It is called common decency for the community. Too often we hold up individual rights to the point where it becomes disruptive and counter-productive.
All 2 year olds are required to buy a ticket! Only children UNDER 2 and in an adults lap get to travel for free. The child in this story was 2!
When my kids were in this age bracket we took night time flights so the kids slept most of the way and no one was annoyed.
As as far as adult bad behavior if there is room on the plane you can ask to have your seat switched. As far as the Captain of the plane goes he should use his discretion to maintain order on the plane. The cabin staff has enough experience to know when a bad situation is brewing and took action before it became any worse.
Was I part of the decision process for her to have a kid in the first place? And now I'm forced to tolerate her choice for several hours? She could have driven her car...
Having children means you have to make sacrifices, such as not flying on a plane before your child is mature enough refrain from screaming.
I don't have kids, but I've spent enough time with them to know that there is no way to 100% control their behavior, especially if they are hell bent on having a fit. That said.....it is easy to recognize the difference between a parent who is taking charge of the situation and one who is unwilling or ill-prepared to deal with it. I'll put up with just about any annoyance when the parent is truly trying, but I have no tolerance for the later. If that is what the flight crew and passengers were faced with then kudos to Southwest!
The kid that is out of control on a plane is also out of control on the ground. Mommy is just too lazy to learn parenting skills. We see it every day of our lives, don't we?
Moms and dads want babies, but then they take little or no responsibilty for raising them to live amongst other human beings.
in my opinion an obnoxious and loud passenger on a plane, either adult or child is no different than the same situation in a movie theater. Sure they paid for their tickets like everyone else, but just like everyone else they are expected to act in an acceptable manner that does not interfere with others. Southwest does not fly anywhere that you could not drive in a car. If you have an unruly child then perhaps you had better drive to your destination next time.
I totally agree. While I don't expect two year-olds to always sit still and be quiet, I do expect their parents to appropriately address their outbursts and remove them from the situation. Just because your child is tired, hungry, has an ear infection, or whatever lame excuse the parent uses for the child's annoying-ness doesn't mean that it should become my problem.
It'd be so great if the airlines offered no-child flights.
A child who is 2 yrs. old can be controlled if Discipline is started early enough. She got what she deserved.
What if this child had an inner ear infection? There is no way to know if the child was truly uncomfortable. At 30000 feet in the air the child might have been experiencing pain and her eardrums busting.
We don't know.
Flower, well...the plane hadn't taken off yet, hence its return to the gate. Unless, somehow, the gate itself was 30,000 feet above sea level! HA! =~)
Flowerlover...if the child did have an ear infection, the doctor would have advised the parents not to fly at all. Depending of the severity of the infection, the child could end up with severe hearing loss in that ear. When I was four and a hand full, though never disruptive, my parents took me to MI from CA via train. They could have flown but chose the train because I would be more entertained and would love the scenery. They recognized the fact that small children should not be on planes unless there was no other option. I am 57 and cannot remember what I had for dinner a week ago, but to this day, still remember my train trip.
While I agree that the Mom paid her ticket (but the child probably free) and deserves her seat on a plane; the other people on the plane also paid for their trip. If the child was already screaming and misbehaving before the plane took off, imagine what the behavior would be like at 10,000 feet. Southwest has the right to reshedule a problem passenager that is causing issues for other guests; whether it is a drunk person, an angry out of control person or a child that is screaming and causing other guests discomfort. I do not care for Southwest myself but I applaud their actions in this case. I once spend an overnight 7 hr flight listening to two child cry and scream 5.5 hrs of the flight. The mother had three children with her by herself all under the age of 5 and no one on that flight slept, read ,etc because of these children and of course she was seated in the middle of the plane so everyone was pleased. Even 1st class was treated to the "entertainment" These children were already cranky and crying before (the flight left at 11pm at night) they ever got on the plane. I do not know what the heck she was thinking fying them out at that time of night, of course they were cranky.I wish that crew had done the same thing.
The childs seat was most likely paid for, so what! Every flight I have made has the seat paid for one way or another, does that mean I can act any way I want? No! Every passengers is entitled to certain expectations and one of those are being parents will attempt to control children. Anyone have the pleasure of the child that loves to run the length of the aircraft while mommy and daddy think it is sooo cute.
It's about time these obnoxious people got told off! I'm tired of these screaming, ill behaved kids ruining everything for others,whether in a store, restaurant or wherever. I don't know how many times I've left a place because of unruly brats. At least I could leave...on a plane, where do you go, besides sticking your head in the latrine and hoping you get sucked out? There's a place and time for kids to be introduced to the population...when they've learned to behave. What ever happened to "if they can't behave, or you know they're too young to be in the public, stay home until they are old enough to be civilized amongst the rest of the folks." If you can't control them, stay home and teach them...why should everyone else suffer for your poor parenting. When we were growing up, we wouldn't even think of cutting up...we'd get the "evil eye". Even if we did just start up, we'd be whisked off outside of the store or wherever and given a good talking to. We either behaved or went back home. And...bring back spanking!!! God gave us extra padding there for a reason...a little whack on the butt brings 'em back from the uglies.
Amen Carmelulu!
You are apparently not a parent who has traveled with a child to automatically assume that there are poor parenting skills when a 2 year old has difficulty with traveling. I know a lot of adults who can't handle it. And spanking is child abuse in its purest sense unless a life is in danger. The only time I ever spanked my child was on a flight where she refused to put her seat belt on. Otherwise, spanking only leads to more crying. Get real.
Susan-1441506:
The adults I know who hate flying have never screamed their heads off for two hours on a plane. Adults either learn to cope or they find another way to get there...or they don't go.
If the child is too young to know how to control its emotions or behavior in public, then the parent needs to find a different mode of transportation. Otherwise wait to take your kids on a plane, to a restaurant, a grocery store, etc. until the child has learned those skills.
Susan,
I was raised with spankings and my child is being raised the same way. Similar to this story my child is also 2yrs old, the difference is my child has discipline. Spanking is merely a tool to establish repercussions. He has been spanked for acting out and not listening, and that established what will happen to him... to the point that now all I have to do is give him the look and he will stop whatever he knows he is not supposed to be doing. If you spank them and establish that line in the sand youd find out you rarely have to spank them as they grow older. Sitting them in a corner just gives them time to think how not to get caught next time.
Thank you - my question to mom is, can't you tell when your two year old is coming, well, "unhinged"? As that child's mother, don't you know his response to way too much stimulation (the new environment of the airport and the airplane) and why aren't you attentive enough to calm that child down before they hit "overload"?
its' PUBLIC transportaion, stupid. PUBLIC being the operative word. You need to get out of your trailer more often. What are you, Taliban?
jj---hey stupid...look up public...theres NOTHING in the definition stating rude or poor behavior.....also highschool drop out... SWA is a PRIVATE OWNED COMPANY...and it is selling a certain "quality" product...if a brat and its trailerpark mom are diminishing the level of quality the airline is selling to the PUBLIC... then it is the companies obligation to fix the problem...for THE PUBLIC that PAID for standard quality air travel...the PUBLIC is expected to behave in a safe, considerate manner, while in PUBLIC.
See PUBLIC was never used to imply any behavior is allowed...it was used the way its defined in a dictionary...READ A BOOK MORON
Hey, Susan? I was spanked as a child and turned out pretty well. I've been spanking my daughter since she was a little over a year and she's now an intelligent, well adjusted teenager that's polite, well spoken, well mannered and respectful of others. Sooo, that's abuse? The real abuse is the lack of discipline being taught to children these days. They just grow to be spiteful little brats that are lazy and worthless. No wonder our country is like it is now. Thanks to entitled parents like the one in the story and you!
Love you Carmelulu! Perfectly Put!
Why is it that parenting skills seem to have vanished from the face of the earth? If you can't control your child, no matter what age, keep him/her away from the public. All of us have experienced the screaming child at the check-out stand, yelling for candy, or the child in church, disrupting the service, or ....... well, you get the idea. Southwest had EVERY right to take that mother and child off the plane.
Grrrr. Then there are the parents who insist on dragging their precious little bundle-of-joy to a Church wedding. This way the wedding vows will be drowned out by their spoiled brat in the couple's keepsake wedding video. Grrrrr!
Obviously because we've allowed the state to tell us how to raise our kids.
"The state" doesn't tell us how to parent. Parents that are too lazy to parent are at the heart of issue. If you are old enough to have a kid, you are old enough to be responsible for their behavior.
Anything else is a cop out.
way to go southwest!!
Indeed! Every time I read another story of inappropriate passengers (loud behavior, inappropriate dress, etc.) being booted off a Southwest flight, I think more highly of the company and am more likely to book my future flights with them. It's comforting to know that I won't be forced to deal with people who do not know how to conduct themselves in public.
I have bad days too. When I'm having a "does not play well with others" day, I STAY HOME. It's very simple, really.
I have a brand new baby, as well as a Kinder stepson. I have much more empathy and sympathy for parents than I ever did before, and I now appreciate how tough it can be to travel with kids. We took a cruise and our then 4 year old loudly protested the lifeboat drill.
That being said, I had enough respect for my fellow passengers to anticipate that behavior and take an immediate corrective action away from other drill participants. We ALL had a fine time on the cruise (kudos to Carnival Cruise Lines)
You bring up a very good example of a more kid-friendly environment. On a cruise, it's a more open area than an airplane. Most everyone on a cruise is there to relax and vacation. On an airplane, people are trying to get from Point A to Point B. You're in a very limited area of space, so it is important for the pilot and crew of Southwest to do what's safe for the public.
A plane is closer to being in an elevator than being on a wide open cruise ship. I can only imagine having a child act up while I'm in an elevator packed full of people for 2 hours or more.
Why were kids on a cruise ship? I thought people were there to RELAX.
Rotten kids being unruly and their rotten parents who won't make that horrible noise they make stop!! The parents are lazy or they just plain "suck" as parents. Great job Southwest!!! I really love it when a mom is in a store with a kid and the kid is screaming, I have witnessed many times where the mom keeps shopping and IGNORES the kid like she can't hear it at all. It is unbelievable! I then yell over shut up! when I should be slapping the mom around!!
I had to travel with a 2 and 5 year old after my husband passed away. I took every precaution possible to ensure a smooth flight. Of course, my 2 year old began crying, then my 4 year old. A gentleman from first class got up, sat next to my children and had them laughing almost right away. He was an angel, he got them cookies, played cards with them and even gave them a pen from the White House. It is people like him that remind me to help others and be kind. You never know what there situation is. I know the kindness will be returned to him someday.
I am nervous and irratable enough when I fly, I don't need a screaming kid making it worse. I feel sorry for the Mom, but if your kid can't be quiet... time to hit the bricks. If Soutwest loses a couple "angry moms" as passengers who are upset about this story it will be less than the business traveler and couples vacation passengers gained by rest of us knowing Southwest will take care of a problem.
Yes, of course, the rest of the passengers paid good money for their flight and should not be subjected to a crying, screaming child for the length of the flight. She should be giving the rest of the plane an apology.
When did parents stop teaching their kids common everday manners at home? Both my son and my granddaughter could be taken ANYWHERE from the time we brought them home from the hospital. All it takes is a little time and some rules about behavior in public.
i'm glad you have robot zombies for children and grandchildren, but a 2yr old is a 2yr old. it doesn't even sound like he was having a tantrum he said go plane go.
Thank goodness - Go Southwest! I'm the parent of two grown children who were taught and expected to behave in public. At that age, kids will be kids, but it's still up to the parents to teach them proper behavior. If they can't, then the child shouldn't be put in that situation until they're able to control themselves.
Call Supernanny, Pamela, and learn how to handle your child.
Absolutely. bad parenting is no reason why everyone else on the plane should have to put up with a child misbehaving. I have had several flights where the child was so unruly that other passengers asked the parent to calm their kid down. that went over like a lead balloon.
LMAO like a lead balloon
I was on an 8-hour flight with a boy (7 - 8 years old) who persisted in pushing the attendant call button a dozen or so times at a stretch. The adults the child was traveling with did nothing, so I firmly pressed on the back of his head to get his attention. When he turned around, I instucted, "Cut it out." The "adults" (in age only) gave me a bewildered look and asked if there was a problem. (Um, YES!) On the up side, the kid did cut the crap... but I'm still astounded by the inaction of the adults.
roflmbo..... yeah I have had to do that before as well.......too funny.... thought I was the only one to get onto others kids. If they wont someone has 2 .... kids cant just think its okay just because their parents arent sayin anything.
I agree. I have been on several flights where I have had to use my "evil eye" look on another person's child. It drives me crazy to have my seat kicked constantly and to have the parent sitting right there do nothing about it!! In a close-quarters situation like a cross-country flight, I should not have to discipline other peoples' children. I have two children, and they know how to behave in public because I taught them what was appropriate, and they knew there would be a consequence for not acting right (loss of priveleges, time outs, etc.) I agree with the posters who have mentioned that people need to wait to bring children on a flight, to a restaurant, or wherever, until they learn to behave appropriately. When you provide clear boundaries and discipline to your children, you are showing that you love them. That being said, I do understand that there are times that you need to travel with young children, but try to time it so it is least disruptive to others! Take an overnight flight or something so the kids are more likely to sleep, or something like that!
Not enough facts presented to judge the culpability of the parent. Kid could have been sick, etc. Maybe they simply HAD to get home that day, by any means necessary. And it was a 2 year old, after all.
That being said, however, a screaming kid is not mentioned as an inducement in any SWA advertisements of which I am aware.
Maybe Cowbell will want to introduce herself as the author of her posting the next time she flies SWA. As long as everyone else has paid for their fare, I'm sure she won't mind all the other passengers making her entire flight miserable.
And remember, this happened on the ground, not at 30,000 feet.
Way to go SWA. I've been on a few of those flights Going somewhere that flew through ORLANDO. Many is the time I wanted to open the door for some of their Mothers (?) and throw the bunch out myself. MANY KUDO'S to that caring flight crew!