Create and save Jobs! The job you save might be your own silly democrats

Right ON Eric 738896 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well Said

How dense can they be to think this is not a referendum on health care? Scott brown ran on the platform of being the 41st vote against the health care take over. His campaign took off when he hit that issue hard 3 weeks ago. Even the moderate dems. know this is very a dangerous path for there careers. This plan doesn't do any of the things they wanted, but the socialist O-bots think they have to pass something, or admit their majority has accomplished nothing. They have, unfortunatly, accomplished something. They have buried our children in debt. Now they want finish the job and bury our grand children, and their children.

Edm, 743399, do you think "Faux" News, health care insurance companies, big pharma and tea baggers make up 72.2% of this poll? Because that's how many Americans are against it. As of Monday, January 18,the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that just 38% of voters nationwide favor the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats.

The only people who like the health care bill are those with their hands out, and liberal special interests.

I don't know about that ED. Revolution is what helped create this great country. Your right about doing nothing though. Do nothing and it's bad. Do it in the current version the democrats are offering and it's worse.

I care about that.

Larry Summers

Nicely said Ed - post 1.3

There is no foresight behind the GOP agenda. I also don't think this Mass election was a normal election. The GOP and Health Insurers fought way to hard to defeat Coakley w/ a candidate who posed NUDE, just to help block healthcare reform which would help millions of Americans!! Very typical of the whining, knee-locking, playing dirty, party of "no" GOPers.

And for all the GOP effort, money, and non- Massachusetts people sticking their noses in this election, Brown should have won by a landslide. Winning by 5% while it's still winning, doesn't mean that Massachusetts or the rest of the nation are all against healthcare reform.

oops, sorry eric, I meant ED.

ed743399, one area you had wrong is that pharma is in bed and already made their deal with the white house.... as someone who does not have health insurance and needs it, i do not want it at the expense of those who are already caught up in this economic tsunami... and I think since I pay for the congress to have health care while i have none, as with all things, they have forgotten they are the employees and we are the employers.

Ed, you are right, it doesn't differentiate between left and right. Every incumbent must be replaced. They have stopped listening to America and what America wants. In addition to be voted out of office they should be prosecuted for bribery, dereliction of duty, professional malfeasance, betraying the trust of the people and any other charges that can put these self-serving criminals behind bars and strip them of their benefits. Let them keep the money they had when they first came to Washington, and when they are found guilty they must forfeit any wealth in excess of their first year wealth.

Well said Steve!

Ed, Your assertion that "The only people who don't like the health care bill are Faux News, health care insurance companies, big pharma, and a lot of tea baggers who have no clue who is stringing them along" is not correct. I suppose you believe that it is not possible to be reasonably against a piece of legislation that addresses some clear problems, but also includes many new issues. I, for one, believe that the bill will be better off once they need people from both sides of the aisle to get it passed.

Right on the money Eric !!

Must be Ed & Tomkat sit on there asses all day and smoke crake and live off the system, that would be the only reason why you want dems in the office get money for doing nothing !!!!

Are people aware of the fact that many dems and independents are mad at obama because they feel the health care bill does not lean enough to the left? Don't assume that everyone who is upset is upset because they want us to move more to the right. Millions of americans feel we have been too right for far too long.

Healthcare is a great idea. The issue is that politics has put your party against my party. The Dems can't force the Republican voters to pay for everyone. They can't make backroom deals that at best are unethical, at worst illegal.

You can't say something is deficit neutral when it is only that if you raise taxes. That is not neutral, it is a new tax. A tax that will be passed onto consumers in the form of higher prices, or reduced wages.

We all want healthcare. Nobody wants elderly, children, people with health issues no fault of their own without a means to get healthy. The question is how to pay for it? You can't tax only small business and let large corporations off. You can't make deals that appeal to your party only because you have the votes.

I'll throw out and idea. Tariff imports, pay for it that way. Tax the goods that were sent overseas that resulted in our people getting laid off, our companies profits being reduced and wages to go down. Bring Fair Trade back (vs Free Trade). As an employer if I have to provide health insurance, it is a cost I have to put into my "widgits" that we manufacture. Chinese "widgets" don't have that cost. Tariff them, put them on an equal playing field.

Dump the politics and get something done together.

Nice Post Ed, The Eric's of this world just don't get it, what is coming down the road for this country.

The problem however is that everyone is forgetting that it's MA itself that doesn't want health care because they already have 90% covered in their state. For them, it's more cost giving them something that they already have.

That does not mean however that it is the right choice for the rest of the country to give up on health care.

Eric,your are correct. I don't think the Democrats have it yet. This is just the beginning. There is just too much against it.

Ed, 1.3, go back to sleep and take tomkat, 1.4, with you.

We are paying for the lack of health care coverage in our taxes and premiums now. Emergency room services and extended care of the uninsured are paid by local, state, and federal governments, and by the insured through inflated reimbursements. What is so bad about getting those people in an insurance plan that spreads the financial risk and maybe gives them some preventative care? Ohhhh no, we wouldn't want tax money to pay for any individual's insurance, even if the entire system then actually saves money, that would be socialism. Seems the GOP's idea of reform is to make sure only corporations are healthy.

Eric, the only thing being shoved down our thoats are the far-right's talking points; one of which is that Dems are somehow scheming to destroy our way of life by providing insurance to everyone.

The health bill is a trillion dollar give away to big insurance. Nothing more, nothing less. This election shows that dems agree with repubs on 1 key issue: they want representation, and this culture of authoritarianism and arrogance in DC must go.

Ummm... last time I looked, one of the things that "got them elected" was a strong stance in favor of a national healthcare overhaul, including a public option. The Dems have a larger majority in both houses than W ever had, back when he did whatever the hell he wanted. They shouldn't be afraid to force this issue. It is crucial to the long-term survial of the nation.

The Dems have been in control of congress for 3 years. Under Clinton, the basis for the housing failure was created. Stop blaming the GOP for all this failure. Since before yesterday's sounding defeat in Mass, all I am hearing from the Dems is different scenarios on how they can still ram their plan down our throats without GOP support. Here's a scenario they do not want to consider... How about finally sitting down with the GOP and working out a bi-partisan plan. THAT'S what we, as citizens, expect them to do. THAT'S what obama promised during his campaigning. Unfortunately, compromise is not in the liberal vocabulary because all they want is "gimmee, gimmee, gimmee". I think we have all found out by now that American households no longer have anything to give, except the boot when election season rolls around.

Wrong, let's see 3000 deaths on 9/11/01 on U.S. soil. Needless wars in Iraq and Afgan. House prices way too high. What exactly was going good?

Now go back to 94 - 2000 and yes things were going good for most of the country then.

Everyone keeps saying Bush got us into this mess. All I know is that everything was going good for me until 2007. Let's see, that was the year after we elected the Democratic congress.

President Obama, don't be surprised with Massachusetts since you have established an new environment of Chicago style corrupt political behavior in DC. The truth is.... "You LIE"

1. "No more pork in the bills that I will sign." 787 billion stimulus with 9294 plus pork projects added

1a. "We must hurry and pass the monumental 787 stimulus bill so that unemployment will not go over 8%". Duhhh.... unemployment peaked at 10.2 percent and is at an adjusted rate of 17% or 10% unadjusted.

2. "Lobbyist will not influence legislation" Health care deals with big pharma, Insurance companies, AMA, AARP, unions, etc

3. "I guarantee you can keep your current Insurance if you like" If you believe this God help you.

4. "Health care legislation will be on CSPAN" Who knew?

The #1 concern for most all Americans is JOBS JOBS and more JOBS. Why do the Dems refuse to acknowledge this FACT? Its about control and power (tyranny), that's why they have put the cart before the horse!!!!

The American sleeping giant has been awakened and he likes TEA parties plus people who drive American made pick-up trucks.

Finally and unrelated to the election.... globally the POTUS is loved by many and feared by NONE!!!

Pat, you forgot to add that the election was in Mass.! Blues typically own that state. Keep rationalizing though.

I would love to say that we have a bi-partisan bill. But there have been over 160 concessions by Dems to include Republican ideas and still NOT ONE republican has voted in favor of the reforms. That tells me Repubs are more concerned playing politics than finding common ground with the Dems to move the country forward. It's a shame. I would love to entertain the thought of voting for a Republican that isn't just a Nobama-tron.

We warned them, and they didn't listen. Now they want to shove a bill down our throats at the expense of a democratically elected representative?! It'll be revolution time. We warned you, and you didn't listen.

Reid worked out HIS bill without GOP input or public scrutiny. Peosi and Reid both stated that they don't need the GOP to pass THEIR bill. There was no CSpan coverage, as promised, on the health care debate. How does that add up to concessions for the GOP? The Dems had it in their mind what they wanted and would not take no for an answer. That's how they ended up bribing Nebraska to go along. So who's playing politics more? The GOP want a bi-partisan bill, the dems need to be prepared to compromise if a health care reform is to pass.

J Corry,
If it's the talking points you're concerned with, you can choose to not take part, and listen to or watch something else.
However, when it comes to healthcare, if the current plans are passed, those who disagree with them (which is now the majority of Americans) would not have the option of not taking part. It would be "forced" on most all of us.

And yet "ERIC" MASS already has Universal Health Care- signed into law by MITT ROMNEY, Rep.

Oh- and jobs & Wall Street......who gave us that mess? Yes, everything went to hell in just the last year, NOT.

Your absolutely right Eric. And if the Dems werent such sore losers, they would agree. They just want victory ...at any cost (even at thier own children/grandchildrens future). Congradulations Senator Brown!

I agree Eric. We should send hearing aids also to Congress as they don't seem to listen very well to the public opinion!

@Pennys Mom

Yes Mitt Romney signed the bill, but this bill was rammed through the state legislation just like the current Congress is doing. Plus with the majority of democrats in the Commonwealth, they would have overridden any veto of Romney. He didn't champion that bill, just signed it.

And now there is a shortage of doctors to run it there in the Commonwealth and good ones like the one that I found have left practice or the area due to the increased work load. Imagine that on a national scale!

I think Massachusetts voters should be ashamed of themselves. Now they have a conservative Senator who could be a roadblock to national health care reform. Do they really understand the implications of that or did they buy the simplistic rhetoric of the campaign? If we stay on the same path, health care costs are sure to rise. There will be no stopping increases by insurance companies, doctors, hospitals, equipment makers and the drug companies. They will be given the green flag to continue with business as usual.
And what about the claims that if Brown won in Mass the stock market would rally. It is down 175 the last time I looked. Maybe the market knows that the current path of health care costs will bring us all to our knees. Between the wars, the escalating miliary costs (for every soldier we send over there, we send/hire 1-2 civilians in support), the escalating health care costs and the increasing payment on the federal debt (40% of which belongs to George W. Bush), the market probably sees what is coming in six months. So much for the rally after Brown wins?
I think President Obama deserved better. Again, Massachusetts voters should be ashamed of themselves. Voting Brown in as Senator is a giant step BACKWARD.

I don't understand the cheering that maybe healthcare won't be revised. I really cannot believe people are so immune that they cannot see that healthcare IS broken. I'll agree that numerous aspects of both the Senate and Congress proposals aren't exactly ideal, yet surely there should be an effort to fix it?

In a recent contract negotiation conflict here between Blue Cross and a large hospital, it came to light that out of every $1 BC reimbursed the hospital for, only $0.55 was actually spent on the care of the insured patient. The balance was made up of $0.35 for uninsured/medicare and $0.10 for the hospital's profit.

I can understand people not wanting the government involved in their healthcare at a provider level, but I really do believe some cost containment needs to be looked at. If things stay unchecked, there will be fewer people who can afford the premium increases that will be necessary. As time goes on, the percentage of what proportion of your $1 gets spent on you will diminish in order to take care of those who are no longer able to afford it.

Yes, health care costs are going to rise. Yes, more people are going to have to do without health care.

But, nothing I've seen in any version of the health care reform bills addresses these issues.

SHAME on the democrats in DC who never had any intention of doing anything about health care in the first place but yap about it and hope for re-election. We know how that's going to turn out, don't we?

i think its funny when people say the democrats are made with power, when what they have done so far is NOTHING compared to what the rupublicans did when they had power for eight years.

if anything, i wish the democrats would act more like the republicans, have the courage of their convictions and say "we think this is the healthcare reform the country needs, and we're going to pass it." but the democrats are their own biggest enemy.

Amen!!!!!! Totally agree with you.

It is not the Democrats or the Republicans I am truly afraid of it is the Progressives. The Parties need to rid themselves of these Marxist/Progressives! They do not care about the American People and have a disdain for our Constitution!

Kudos and a heartfelt THANK YOU to the voters of Massachusetts!!!!!!

Hey, CNBC....you're a very liberal organization. This online voting doesn't do anyone any good unless you publish the results. Are you going to send the results to Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and the White House?

Greg, I agree there wasn't anything in the Democrats' proposals to that effect. Sadly though there also hasn't been any productive suggestions emanating from the GOP on that topic either. Not now, nor for the last 8 years. Both sides of the aisle have been more content in placating the insurance companies than looking out for their voters. The only difference sofar has been the Democrats wish to provide coverage for all costing us $$$. The GOP wishes things to remain unchanged costing us $$$. The end result? The average joe is going to be unable to afford healthcare at the current rate of increases.

george maby you havent keeped up with is going on.OB --- and all his bailouts to banks,so what have we got now china which has control of our banks that tax payers have been forced to pay for has told our banks to quite lending money.That is what drove down the stock market.

George...

I'd have to guess that you are not a stock broker or trader.

A simple scan of 'business' news on the internet would explain the actual reason for today's stock market drop...if you are actually interested in "reality" rather than instructing people as to how Mr. Brown's election caused the market to fall.

I'm sick and tired of these polls that ask a simple yes, no, undecided question that add conditions to the end of the answer.

What's up with the undecided guys having to vote "because I don't think Republicans will blah blah"?

Might as well state it like you're thinking whoever the editor is on this poll.
Yes - Because I'm a patriot who loves all people
No - Because I'm a !@#$!@#$
Undecided - Because I'm partially thinking like a !@#$!@#$

What storm is coming. You mean the storm where Republicans get drunk and back in power and spend/waste on pet projects like endless wars and no bid contracts to friends.

You're right. How dumb of a politician do you have to be to know that there is no such thing as a "lay-up" election? I guess the Dems haven't been paying attention to what's been going on in the country for the past year. Everybody is blaming everyone else in the Dem camp when they aught to own up to the fact that they are all to blame. Brown took advantage of the huge tactical glich made by the Dems. He was out pressing the flesh while the Dems didn't even campaign. Sure he's detestable--but he won. Sadly, I began to think Obama was going to be a one-term president when last March or April he had the health-insurance fat cats come to the White House for a closed-door meeting. I e-mailed the WH begging him not to cave but I knew he already did. He had already caved when he started that bi-partisan crap. I don't want this bill that was written by big insurance for big insurance to become law. I am a liberal and I hate this sell-out bill for liberal reasons. Obama wimped out when he wouldn't kick ass and take names with Congress like Johnson did to get Medicare passed. Oh, by the way, after Medicare was passed it only took eighteen months to get it up and operating---And this was BEFORE computers!

Obama made health-care reform incomprehensible to most of us. We don't support what we can't understand. How could he not know this?

Amen Eric,,,,,my vote as a senior citizen I believe is a representation of ALL senior citizens. We like the insurance plans we have NOW; and this grandma doesn't want to be swept under the rug just because she's over 65. Thanks.

Amen Allen. The MSNBC polls have always drove me crazy for that very reason.

the bank bailouts were done under Bush

I'm staying away from 'politics' on this one. What I want for all Americans is fairly simple and this 'shout-out' is on behalf of everyone to Congress: WE WANT (the coverage) WHAT YOU HAVE! How simple is that, and it won't take 6 more months to figure that out? Finally, DON'T TELL US HOW EXPENSIVE IT WILL BE EITHER!

What cracks me up is that reading the Huffington Post and Daily Kos (for some good laughs), there is this talk of Western Mass. Dems and Boston Dems infighting being the reason why Coakley lost. They are saying that this was not a referendum on anything Obama and Washington have done. I hope these jack a$$es (that the president seems to listen to) keep believing that going into the the summer. The Tea Party Express will steam roll over these idiots this fall with that thought process.

Brown was so upfront with the "41st vote" issue, that anyone who was really in favor of the health care bill wouldn't have voted for him. Thank you, Massachusetts for saving us all.

I am realizing that DUMOCRATES is the right word for these people. Can they not get past their own egos and see what the people that in theory they are representing want, that would be the people that made the mistake of electing them and just might not when reelection comes up. Wake up Washington and see what the people want the the ego in chief.

Yes Bush started the bailouts but now he wishes he had not. If you remember the same guy is still giving the same advice to Obama. If he had known that it was going to lead to all this I dont think he would have. Why do you blame Bush for all the failure, he had a Dem. Congress who went crazy ( Barney Frank and Chris Dodd)who said everything was fine lend to more people who could not afford what they got. I dont agree with Bush on many things but stop blameing him for what a Dem congress did , and Obama has sunk us even further down the tubes and shows no signs of stopping .

Couldn't agree less. The frustration that most of the country feels is NOT because of the Democratic agenda - it's because virtually none of that agenda has gone anywhere yet. If the last 12 months has proven anything, it's that the Dems in D.C. are just as ineffective in the majority as they were in the minority.

They cry about needing 60 votes in the Senate. How did W. manage to push through his horrible, destructive agenda when he never had 60 votes himself? Because the Repubs knew how to get things done. (Of course, the Nazis also kept the trains on time, too, so I'm not necessarily saying that's a good thing.)

I wanted change, and so did most of the country. I voted for change, and so did most of the country. If the Dems could just translate their good ideas into action, the nation and the world would be so much better off. But I'm beginning to think it will never happen, because they are the latest incarnation of the Keystone Cops. If they get tossed out on their a**es next year, they will only have to look in a mirror to know why.

its so nice to see that you have such great insurance!!! but please explain to my coworker whose hardworking dad is dying of cancer because he has no healthcare and couldnt get the early treatment he so desperately needed and now not only is she going to lose her dad but her mother will end up with a bill she cant afford to pay!! is your life more important than his!!! and you people call yourselves christians-

Gimme a break! Dems lost because they've lost a large portion of their base that they've taken for granted. Progressives sat this one out. We're pissed and we're showing it!!! And by the way, as a state representative, Brown voted FOR a public option for the people of MA! Over 60% of the people in this country support a public option! Polls in MA show the VAST majority of people there like their own version of a public option. The message to the Obama and the dems is "You aren't going far enough!" And yeah, if they don't get the message, they're screwed!

Eric, I guess ignorance is golden. Passing health reform would create thousands of jobs and relieve the pressure we are now facing paying these high costs of healthcare which comes from paying a Middle man for health care. People have to realize that the cost of our insurance policies includes broker commissions, corporate expenses yearly bonuses to to Insurance Company officers, profits to stock holders. All of the above have to be paid out before actual cost of health care.

The only people who like the health care bill are those with their hands out, and liberal special interests.

What Liberal special Interests? The Republicans did everything they could to make sure the Insurance companies make out like bandits. Sorry to say the Dems shot themselves in the foot again by wimping out on an effective health care bill. Now they're stuck with a piece of trash.

During last year's elections both Dems and Republicans campaigned on "affordable health care for all." Exactly what did the Republicans have in mind? (To get elected?) Only problem: the Republicans didn't mean it, which is why they have yet to come up with a bill of their own.

Doing nothing is not a way to deliver on that promise.

If last night’s upset in Massachusetts is any indication of what’s going to happen in the 2010 mid-term elections Obama and the country should be relieved to know that like Bill Clinton in 1994, Obama will be able to coast to a balanced budget with Republicans once again doing all the heavy lifting while he takes all the credit.

The honeymoon is definitely over and the only one who was screwed was the American taxpayer. Squandered stimulous money, government takeover of GM, bailouts of banks and insurance giants who immediately gave out the money in bonuses to incompetent execs, and the jobs went to Al Gore's green agenda. BS is green too, remember that. Contracs for solar and wind energy that went to foreign countries, in spite of the fact we have American mfg capable and already producing the products. And they want to force amnesty for millions who are not citizens, do not speak English and are taking the few jobs that are here...illegally.

I am not a Democrat nor a Republican but it is obvious the far left wing ignoring their constituants, holding closed door meetings, bribing their own Democratic Congress members, and their PR, SPIN, and LIES are going to pay a toll.

The tea party exit polls indicate these folks aren't Republicans but Blue Dog Democrats and Independents who DO NOT want RADICAL SOCIALISM, DO NOT want Goverment takeover of banks, automakers, oil companys, insurance companys but simply want reform and safeguards.

Right now I also feel like that Lee Greenwood song, who sings "I'm proud to be an American....or even the Okie from where?" ~amn straight.

The people are talking but are you listening. I'm quite sure the other 10 House Members from Mass now understand the Kennedy gangland is over, and the munchkins, under their rule are now happy to be free, and they know that the office belongs to them, not the Kennedy dynasty.

Don't let it stop. Start the recall petitions on Pelosi and Reid. Only those from those states, California and Nevada can start them. Go for it. Don't wait until 2010. It's time we took our country back, from both the Democrat and Republican politicians and did what was right for this country, not what is PC.

If they dont you are all slaves to big business. Good luck

I believe Ed misinterpreted what Eric meant by "storm". I am sure Eric meant the senate voting in Nov.

As far as bashing dems...OF COURSE! I didn't jump on the Obama band wagon for obvious reasons...reasons that all of you had access to, but chose to ignore. I expected the African American community to all show and vote for BO. That really wasn't the issue. The issue was that most white dems voted for BO, totally ignoring his lack of experience and his relationships with prominent white hating men. I was left believing that most dems were cheering for their favorite entertainer than for a qualified candidate. Although BO puts on a good act for someone who has no clue what they are doing, his actions tell me and many Americans that he is not what this country needed and he is not a protector of our constitution and the American way of life.

We can all argue about health insurance, but the bottom line is that government...an American government, has no business taking over private industry. For comparison, this happened in Venezuela and how many of you, including democrats like Chavez and think he is great for the people of Venezuela and the region? That should be close to zero.

And by the way, everyone in this country has access to medical treatment. You just don't pay the hospital bill afterwards. They have to treat you.

Is everybody in America now a Member of the Klan,Bush and Dick got us here in this Debt through Impeachable lies and other offenses, not Obama not Health Care Bill and all of your So called American Hero's should have served their time and not hidden behind Mama Bush skirt tail and became a deserter for 18+ months and anyone over 18 should be DRAFT NOW especially Gun Ho people like you ERIC,I was 17 teen and enlisted in the U.S.ARMY(Paratroopers) and did a tour in the U.S.Navy cause I grew up Poor, you CHICKEN HAWKS!!! America spends countless Billions on DUMB DADDY'S WARS and NOT on POOR PEOPLE you GUYS and GALS just AMAZE my 55 year old White Repblican ass how stupid you Really are and I not talking Just about Eric here He just wrote a Stupid Opinion at the wrong time,He maybe a great Person but Stupid Speak comes from TWO PLACES either the Heart or not knowing about the Real Life outside of your small town or state or Stupid opinion to yourself. Roy Lee

The republican did write a healthcare proposal. It was just more than 200 pages long. The obama media refused to talk about it. The number one reform the republicans had in there bill was tort reform. I am in healthcare, and law suits are the driving force behind the cost of insurance premiums. Tort reform isn't even addressed in this 2000 plus page porkulous bill. That is because the tort lawyers are the democrat party. The dems plan will do little in terms of fixing healthcare, but it will be great in paying the lobby groups. Just like the stimulus bill, trillions of dollars are not accounted for labeled as sent to areas (zip codes) that don't exist. DC is corrupt, this administration is corrupt. It is chicago corruption on a national level now.

I agree with you wholeheartedly......

on another note - I recently received a an eye-opening email that indicated there were approx 544 people in charge of the government - and approx 6 billion americians (this number may not be correct) the writer went on to ask if there are so few in charge and so many americans - why cant we get rid of those 544 people who are determined to run this country into the ground???

We as a nation need to step up and VOTE as if our lives depended on it - because they really do. We need to focus more on what is going on and what the politicians can do for the country and less on marital status, gossip and dirt. lets face it - there is not one person on this panet that has not done something the should not have done. We should not be measured by our mistakes - they are what make us stronger. We should be measured by our accomplishments.....

Ed-743399 Comment collapsed by the community

This is what happens when the ultra right wing takes over, censorship. Why did the "community" collapse Ed-743399 comments? I'll tell you why, because he posted an intelligent response to a not so intelligent threat from Eric-738896.

This countries health care system is in need of help. I underwent a PLIF (Posterior Lumbar Inter-body Fusion) in December. The surgery was deemed "medically necessary" and was a complete success. I am fortunate to have very good health insurance through my employer and a secondary through my wife's employer. The statements have been coming in from the insurance companies and to try and understand how they charge for services is damn near impossible. You will see a charge on a line for a particular service for say $17,000. The next line will say "negotiated discount" taking that lines balance down to $7500! (this is an example) That is the line that the insurance companies pay from, HOWEVER, if I had no insurance I would be responsible for paying the original amount of $17,000!!! And this example is only for one line!!! There are many lines on many different claim explanations, understanding them all is impossible for a layman.

What I want to know from all of you republicans here is what do you propose we do?, because the system is so wrought with fraud and red-tape! If I was one of the Americans without health insurance I would not have been able to afford to have this surgery and would have been forced to live on with debilitating, chronic back pain! THIS IS AMERICA HERE PEOPLE AND NO AMERICAN SHOULD BE FORCED TO SUFFER BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE DECIDE THAT THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE!!!!!!

Americans were against this health care reform bill EVEN BEFORE they heard about Brown.

Brown's election hopefully woke our legislators up.

Hopefully it'll blow away as many republicans as possible.

These Tea Party folks -

Are these the same folks who voted for George Bush, watched as he lowered taxes on the very wealthy for eight years, and then are wondering where all the tax money went and are now fighting against new taxes - yet the country has a major infrastructure hole?

I'll save these people time: it went back in the rich people's pockets.

The Tea Party will accomplish about as much as the National's Socialist Party (The REAL Socialist folks - look it up!) has and does: not much

Hey Kevin...we already pay for all those who don't have insurance. Those illegal immigrants, people on welfare, etc. There is an easy way to fix health care. Get rid of welfare, ship out all illegals and make the lazy welfare croud get in the fruit and vegetable fields and finally work for a living and contribute to taxed income. Many that voted for BO would love to have this health care bill pass. They already get taken care of by big government and more help to reward laziness would be much appreciated. In fact, I am tired of paying high insurance rates that get raised constantly because I and everyone else with insurance pays for these people. I believe maybe they can meet in the middle and offer a choice...welfare or health care, you pick. How many do you think would actually choose health care?

If the democrats continue to push this legislation then what happened in Massachusetts will be what they can expect in their home districts/states.

The politicians in DC have lost sight as to who they work for. We do NOT work for them. I can't recall any decent legislation coming out of DC lately. The only thing the stimulus plan provided was more money to the people who need it the least.

I'd be curious how many of the people posting here are one -unemployed with no insurance, two - employed with employer-paid insurance, paying their own insurance.

I don't think the bill in its current form has all the right answers, but I do know something has got to be done. As a small business owner, we pay for our employees insurance. Last year our premiums went up 35% and this year they increased 28%. None of us had more than a few doctor's visits. We cannot continue to pay the insurance if the premiums continue at this rate. We were told last year our rates went up because we had an "aging" group. This year it's because we added three employees in the 20's and were told the increase is due to the possibility of pregnancies. We cannot win with these companies.

If you're opposed to the legislation as it is, then come up with suggestions.

I personally think we should tell Congress that they can't have government-sponsored, taxpayer-paid insurance until all of us get their kind of insurance! I bet they'd find some solutions!

How long will it take for the blustery neocons in this forum to realize that the Progressives, the true LEFT of the USA, are not in bed with this administration simply because the current administration is weak and does not promote a liberal agenda?

That's right, tighty righties: Obama is not a liberal.

A true left-leaning administration would have:

A) promoted the health care reform as "Medicare for All"

B) pushed said reform through by a 50-vote referendum, if necessary -- damn the open-floor 60 vote limit

C) stopped all U.S. actions in Iraq

D) established a Manhattan Project-level initiative to make the U.S. the frontrunner in renewable energy, electric cars, and FUSION RESEARCH

Obama and the current administration are so moderate and conciliatory it's insulting to a true liberal PROGRESSIVE to be thrown in with these moderates simply because of someone else's ignorace or illiteracy.

Think, preferably prior to posting, Newsvine righties.

America needs a MULTI-PARTY SYSTEM of government!

Barry Sanders/Alan Grayson 2012!

I cant beleive that people - on both sides- are so blinded by partizan nonsense -that they cannot see further than republican/democrat. We need HCR - no doubt. But not to the extent the liberals in Congress seem to think. But then again... it is America!

To the blind democrats - Its not all big business and Fox news and conservatives that dont want to see HCR go through. Yes, there are going to be blind lemmings following the republican party off the cliff if they were told to. But a lot of republicans (not conservatives) realize - yes we need HCR - but not that the type of reform that the liberal administration is trying to shove down America's throats.

To the blind republicans - Its not all socialist liberals that want to be Switzerland that want to see HCR go through. Yes, there are going to be blind lemmings following the democratic party off the cliff if they were told to. But a lot of Democrats (not liberals) realize - yes, we need HCR - but not the type of reform that the not-liberal-enough administration is trying to shove down America's throats.

Bottom line is - the vocal minority - conservatives/liberals- are just that. the vocal MINORITY. The rest of Americal lies somewhere in the middle. We want HCR. Only a fool would say the system is great and works as intended. We just dont want what President Obama and Congress are selling. Tone it down. Realize, the country is not as liberal as you think it is, nor is it as conservative as the right would like to you to beleive. You have good broad points - stick to them. And for God's sake, put away the blank checkbook and and work within your means without all your hidden dealings with special interests. If we have to live within our means, so do you.

So Eric agrees with Republicans that more Americans should die because of an inadequate health care plan. In addition, Eric agrees that the insurance industry and lobbyists and special interests should make money off the backs of dead and working class Americans. Eric, it was the Republican party so drunk on power that they stopped working for the American people and hopped into bed with big business, you remember, Wall Street, and the insurance industry to line their pockets, and in the process of the eight year drunken free for all, they bankrupted the country, our pockets, ran through a $293 billion surplus left by Clinton, which if handled correctly would have meant a $5.6 trillion dollar surplus which would have paid all our bills, but guess what, Republican majority in the house, in the senate, and in the White House took their eye off the ball and instead opted for power, greed, and money and took this country down. I would say, Eric, that the true, hard facts of reality hardly support your "drunken" claims of who did what to whom. The only people in Washington who worked and earned their paychecks this year were the Democrats. The rest of them sat on their backsides, or rallied against the people who pays their paychecks and pays for their benefits, and whined and complained all year, and Republicans, Eric, have absolutely nothing concrete or in writing to show for anything for a whole year. Only the Democrats were brave enough and put their money where their mouths are and actually produced something, took the hits and the slams, and still produced something. Can't say the same for the Republican party, who it looks like, are still and will remain in the pockets of the health care and drug lobbyists and insurance companies, because no way do they have the guts to tackle health care reform. Where else would they get their money since the party is bankrupt, and like Michael Steele says, incapable of leading the country? You must truly be ashamed of your Republican Party. At least the Democrats have the guts to take them on, while the Republicans continue to look the other way, and oh, by the way, health insurance stocks soared today, so they made more money on your Scott Brown, another "NO" vote. Yeah, let people die, Eric, while you are all "drunk" on your backsides watching from the sidelines and acting like immature babies with no guts to take on the big issues. Says a lot about them, and makes the Democrats look the ones with the guts, regardless of the hits they take, they are still standing. Too bad you don't demand better from your party. No wonder they are such a mess, and no wonder they took this country down. Too drunk on their own power to take care of business and safeguard the country. Facts don't go away, Eric, they just don't go away.

Ben,

Should of happened during Clinton or Bush. Thats where we messed up. We lead the world and then lost our ambition for advance and stayed for the oil status quo. Which isn't worng but just small. Oil should be the catalyst for advance not a standard.

I say to hell with the party system all together. Take political party names off of Ballots. Too many simply vote for the party, which doesn't do anyone any good. Plus the tug of war which puts us to sleep is an injustice for the lack of movement we feel and pay for.

Start a fund for new business who are either profit sharing or employee owned. Their products are usually better and the economy could certainly benefit from money in the hands of workers who are the consumers.

Tax outsourcing companies and tax credits for each permenant hire of Americans. Tax credits to exporting companies.

health care reform should have been: no pre-existing conditions clauses, cutting medical malpractice cases to tolerable levels, interstate marketing of insurance plans to hold down costs, public assistance for the 15 million poor or under insured who REALLY need help. That is what ALL americans can stand behind.

The crap the congress is trying to shove down our throats has none of the items mentioned above. Their ideas are: tax those who work and have insurance, control everyone's ability to get medical care, dumb down levels of care so that ALL americans can only get the same level of care as the lowest common denominator in our society. This is CLASSIC REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH BY THE FAR LEFT. Redistribution of wealth is not only cash, but goods and services as well.

Forcing hard working americans to pay the bills/tabs of low lives, lazy people and the intentionally unemployed is one of the cornerstones of Obama's administration.

Sidenote- i see a lot of "Big business is evil" and "greedy big business" etc. Since when has being successful been evil? Yes, some of it is excessive- but if we are crying over excess- where is all the outrage at Sports figures and their Greed? Where is all the outrage at Hollywood and the stupid high salaries of actors and actresses? Where is all the outrage at musicians? Where is the outrage at lawyers who sue over trivial and frivilous cases that shouldnt even be in court? What? Cant hear you.... got nothing? oh.

While yes, I agree you shouldnt be taking a bonus when your company is tanking - all the rage at "big business" is ridiculous. And yes, many of those salaries are astronomical. But the way i see it - these big business execs deserve it more than the athlete or the actor. They make decisions that affect all of the employees of that big business. Their success or failures will drive jobs or break homes. That to me is worth a heck of a lot more and worthy of more money than is some idiot can fake good tears in a movie, or some steriod head can hit a ball.

Im just noting the complete hypocracy of this anger. If your going to rage at greed, then at least be fair about it- and rage at all greed, not just the greed that suites your agenda.

BoBo,

There is another way to look at Professional Athletes and Actors. They are simply workers that are actually getting a fair share of the business they create with their work. Do you really think TV execs and sports owners deserve to make all of the money being produced on the backs of athletes and actors. Some might say they are actually getting paid what the market allows. Bank execs on the other hand are making huge salaries while the workers at Banks make almost nothing. You cannot compare the two.

I'm proud of the people of the great state of Massachusetts and congratulate Scott Brown. I hope this serves as a warning to incumbents of both parties that no one should be safe in November (not to mention in the primaries!!). Far too many career politicians of both sides have forgotten that they represent the people. Martha Coakley may not have been in national politics but she followed the failed recipes of Harry, Nancy and the President and it cost her. Many more politicians of both parties should join her on the sidelines before the year is out!!

I fail to see how the election of Scott Brown in anyway is a referendum on health care reform when you consider that the state of Massachusetts already has health care provided in their state. Unless Scott Brown was talking about trashing Mass. health care policies then this election was more about independents who have become disillusioned with things taking too long in Washington. The Republicans would like to think that this shows that the majority of the people in the country are now in their favor and want Republicans to continue to obstruct and drag their heels and say "no" to everything. I believe that is the last thing the majority of Americans want. We need solutions but we also need to realize these things are going to take some time to fix properly. Unfortunately we never seem to remember and we find someone else to blame.

I think a lot of Americans are starting to realize "Hey, this Obama guy is a bonehead, nothing is ever going to get better in this country if we're taxed into oblivion to pay for graft!" Do any of you honestly think you're getting anything out of these bills? Of course not! Do you know how many roads have been repaired with the money from the initial stimulus packages? NONE! Not a single one! No bridges have been rebuilt, no roads, nothing, because the government has put so much red tape in the way of getting the money that nobody has gotten a dime yet! All this money is being funneled into crooked organizations like ACORN to line people's pockets, that's all the stimulus packages ever were. The only reason the first one passed under Bush was he was a lame duck president and had no real power to stop it.

As far as health care goes, I look at it like this: If the people writing the bill have purposely worded the bill in a way that excludes them from being forced to follow it, how good can it really be for the American people???

The truth is, Congress has not forgotten that they are our employees in Congress. The real problem is that the American people have stopped researching the issues and making informed decisions and has relied on the "big three" of ABC, CBS, and NBC (all of whom are major financial supporters of the Democrats) to make their decisions for them. Then you sit around and wonder why the hell the people in Congress think they can screw you. Well, simply put, you idiots voted them in!

The people of this country have long forgotten what made this country great and have allowed crooked men to take us to the brink of destruction by way of economic collapse. Every American citizen should be forced to watch "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington".Even way back in the 40's, people knew this day would come. If that movie doesn't drive home what needs to be done in this country, nothing will.

I will agree healthcare needs work, but not in the form of obamacare. All government run programs are failing, mostly because the bureaucrats won't leave the money alone. Employers and Employees put money into programs like medicare and social security for their retirement, so where's the money, if companies and businesses moved money around like the government they'd be arrested for embezzlement, unless they're friends with obama or dobbs. Two thumbs up for the american people, but this is only one victory and the battle is yet to begin lets line up the progressive incumbents democrat or republican and hand them all a pink slip.

Massachusetts voters posthumously spit in face of Ted Kennedy who always callled health care Reform "the cause of his life". I'm about to finish True Compass Senator Kennedy's memoirs in which healthcare for those who did not have it was termed by Mr. Kennedy as a cruel system, both morally and financially. Crushing medical costs, and insurance company manipulations are the leading cause of bankruptcy in America.

This turn of events is the most ironic, near Greek Tragic, happenstance I can imagine. The death of the one true believer in Natiional Healthcare has caused it's demise. At least Teddy fought until almost his last breath for Reform.

I'm sure all Republicans who have not and will not lift a finger to help those medically in need are jumping for joy. Congratulations, you selfish SOBs.

Barney L Cornett..

honestly.. what have you been watching?

Republicans dont have the people's interest in heart. They just want Obama to fail. and will do anything for that to happen. THEY'RE the ones that wont work with him.. How can he work with republicans when they expect/wish for him to fail. Both parties should stop treating politics/ government like a competition and work together to come up with a bill that will make both parties plus americans satisfied. The reason republicans dont give a rats a$$ about healthcare reform is because the majority have healthcare therefore what the hell do they know. They dont struggle like some of us do so how the f@%* are they supposed to know. If they would get over this bull and work with democrats we wouldnt be in this mess. How is Obama supposed to make the "perfect" bill while even some of his own party members are against him. Americans are acting like if healthcare reform is easy. like they will get everything they want.. they expect to much for it just to be the beginning.

"The only people who like the health care bill are those with their hands out, and liberal special interests."

Sorry Steve, but that statement just pisses me off. I don't have "my hand out", nor am I a "liberal special interest". Rather, I'm a very hard working 51 year old female, who works for a company with 5 employees. We don't exactly qualify for great "group insurance", since our group is so small. I'll have you know my monthly premium was just raised this month from $810 to $975. $975 a MONTH. For one person. While that is disgusting enough, the real shxt part of it is that OBSCENE premium does not cover anything the insurance company deems related to my pre-existing condition of high blood pressure, including my medicine, which is another $110/month!!! That's a monthly expense of $1085!!!! On a $32K Salary!! It's sickening to me. And statements like yours really piss me off to the point where I truly hope and pray you find yourself in my position one day ----- really, really soon!

i actually think keeping them pre occupied with that heath reform might be a good idea. see...if they are too pre occupied with that to come up with other ding-dong ideas, i'm good with that. so, like a kid with a toy, just let them be....lol

Stella, in all sincerity, you would be better off putting that $1,085/month into some interest bearing instrument and negotiating your own payments with your health providers. Paying that on top of co-pays is probably contributing to that high blood pressure. Keep it in your own name and find providers who will work with you - might help the blood pressure problem, too - really. So sorry you are going through that.

As for the Dems, they still have the majority in both houses. They need to do what's right, cut out all the back room deals, make the correct decisions, put the plan in front of the people and if the Repubs balk at an efficient, cost-effective, citizen-oriented plan, then THEY look bad. Call their bluff. Put the heat on them to be part of the solution or get the he!! out of the way. This may be the best thing that could have happened to the Dems politically and it may just be the best thing for all of us. Cut the costs, tell the insurance companies to fall in line or go bust, and get everyone insured. That was the original plan. If they do it right this time, the Repubs will have to fall in line or risk exposing their true agenda.

If this is really 'nothing left to lose', then go for it. Get organized and get it done.

I find it sad and amusing at the same time that Harry Reid came out and asked the republicans to work with them to get health care reform passed. Where was that kind of attitude when they had the majority? Perhaps if the democrats had allowed the republicans to participate in crafting the bill it would already have been passed and signed into law......

The party that held up passing of health care reform was the democrats. They were too busy fighting over who would benefit from thier socialist nirvanna to pass anything. They did not need the republicans at all as they had their filibuster proof majority in the Senate and a wide majority in the House.

They screwed the pooch on this and have no one but themselves to blame.

Stella, the more worrying aspect is that your monthly premium is getting really close to an expenditure the elected elite in Washington feel qualifies as a "Cadillac Plan". It really shows how completely out of touch Washington DC is with what some people are paying. Your situation further highlights the fact that one area that needs to be authorized quickly is for health coops to be allowed to exist across state lines.

How you voted

• Yes. Democrats have worked too hard on the health overhaul legislation to allow one election to kill important reforms that would affect all Americans.

True story the day before yesterday I took my wife to emergency room where she waited for two days without care and she has insurance. I witnessed an 85 year old woman in the ER who hadn't had even her blood pressure checked and wanted to go home. From here on out I will remain quiet on this issue but very distressing and I see many more personal bankruptcies coming near future.

these closed door meetings and senators blackmailing for their votes is showing what this admistration and the dems, are, (nothing) for jobs, energy independence or any thing for the american peoople. drop this health care bill and work on the economy, it's the economy and jobs, stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mc Obama ran on reform not a take over. This country doesnt want a take over. If we wanted canadain health care, that is inferior to our todays health care it is not so far away we could move there but we dont want our people to die waiting or we could simply move to oregon where they have rationed health care into murder care. What part of no dont you get?

If we wanted canadain health care, that is inferior to our todays health care

Have you ever been to Canada? Their Health Care System is outstanding and I have been envious for years. Take profits out as insurance companies are the death panels.

Health Care Reform is necessary and it will happen. The Democrats next move will be to append Health Care Reform to a bill which only requires 51 votes to become law. This is how Bush passed the disastrous Medicare Drug Law when Republicans had control of both the House and Senate. In case you forgot, this was from 2000 - 2006. That law and the 6 years of "drunken Republican power" is what led this country into the "The Great Recession" we find ourselves in today. By the way, thanks Republicans for this financial mess and the $1.3 trillion dollar budget deficit left for the Democrats to clean up!!"

Most people have no clue as to the real problems that exist in the Health Care and Health Insurance Industries. They're also clueless about the tremendous benefits Health Care Reform will bring to each citizen and business in our country. All they can do is emotionally react without looking at the facts. If you don't think we need Health Care and Health Insurance Reform, simply ask the millions of plan participants of Blue Cross in California facing a 35% rate increase this year.

Its now time for all those opposed to Health Care and Health Insurance Reform to educate yourselves, rather than listen, rely and believe the lies, hatred, propaganda, etc, spewed out by Fox News!!

Use powdered water...

First of all MA already has a health care plan - but that does not cover the remainder of the country. Brown ran a better race - one state does not represent the country. BTW I am not affiliated with Republicans, Democrats, or Independents (whom I have absolutely no respect for)- just a tax paying American tired of being squeezed financially from every corner. At the end of the 8 years of Bush/Cheney I felt I had no voice as an American, period! All I did was work and pay for the rich to become richer. Wake up America and stop going by party lines.

Any version of the health care bill that I have seen is absolutely useless, except to line the pockets of politicians and insurance companies.

There was never any plans for any reform that meant anything.

Americans don't like change.

When are people going to learn that, when voting for the lesser of two evils, you are still voting for something evil?

NEF-1172889

First of all MA already has a health care plan - but that does not cover the remainder of the country.

Ta-da! It should be the states responsibility to do things for their people. It's not up to Congress to force a one-size-fits-all. It's DEFINITELY not the job of Congress to make sure the other states pay for another state because of a back room deal.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

Uncommon Sensibility

When are people going to learn that, when voting for the lesser of two evils, you are still voting for something evil?

Who would you have voted for then? Coakley so Dems would still be filibuster proof and ram unwanted bills through? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. There wasn't a viable 3rd candidate. The alternative "evil" was to force them to go back to partisanship and LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE.

And Greg, you hit the nail on the head..."Americans don't like change." I would expand that to say that people don't like change. Under the best of circumstances, people are AFRAID of change, and what we have now is not the best of circumstances. People are grabbing on to what are the "old ways" because that's what they know, no matter how bad it is, thus the step backwards in Massachusetts. One thing is for sure, life is change. If we are not changing we are dead. We have seen how people who don't want change polarize the process. I for one, while I don't do it easily, want to see it happen. We've seen what same old same old brings us. Scott Brown is same old same old. There is a perceived "safety" with Scott Brown. I don't think it will take Massachusetts long to realize what they have done. I hope this energizes the Democrats to keep going and get more focused about the great amount of work to be done to keep America a great country. As it was before the current administration took office, we were headed down the tubes and off the map.

Idiot. No one is siputing that the health care system needs to be changed. What not one gets is that ramming a health care bill that only covers a fraction of the country (not ALL) and cannot be paid for without huge taxes, is a huge step in infringing on our American liberties. First, health care reform, then Cap and Trade, gun control, legalizing all current illegals, they are all steps leading to move government control and less liberties for citizens. Nancy Pelosi wants to push that health care is a "right" in this country, not a privilege. Sorry, it's a privelege. The only rights we have are given to us by our Constitution. READ IT!

Absolutely, Greg-281912. The bill has had so many of its teeth pulled that it's not only useless, it's been turned into a cash cow for insuance companies, pharma companies, the politicians who got paid off to kill the bill, etc. That's why I no longer care if it passes or not, in fact, I hope it's defeated.

By the way, every single Repubican says they're against Healthcare Reform because the Democrats' bill is 'no good'. Funny, but I don't remember any of them contributing anything to it but a 'no' vote or a filibuster to try to stop it. Does anybody know what, if anything, any of the Republicans have to offer in the way of Healthcare Reform from their side? You know, like how to keep the insurance companies from raising their rates so high, it's either food or insurance for us working stiffs. Or how to keep insurance companies from denying insurance for 'pre-existing conditions', or to a five month old baby because he's 'too chubby' (actual true story). Or how to keep the drug companies from raising prices ten times the rate of inflation on the medicines that the elderly (maybe your mothers and fathers) absolutely must have to live (another true story). You know, I just haven't heard any ideas from Republicans to benefit the ordinary people at all.

My friends in MA assure me the results had precious little to do with national health care reform and more to do with candidates. It was a tough battle.

They, also, reminded me of at least one congressional special election where a Dem. won what had long been a solidly Rep. district just a couple of months ago.

DM7741 wrote:

I don't think it will take Massachusetts long to realize what they have done.

You could not be more correct. Talk about buyers remorse, wait until his every move and every vote is directed from the "leaders" of the GOP. Then we'll find out that he lied about abortion rights among other things, just like Mitt did. Enjoy your seat while you've got it Mr. Brown because in 2012 you're GONE.

water down the bill?

Please don't...then the stench will be even worse than it is already. The water that is in the pill is either #1 or #2. Adding more will only add stench to it. No, it needs to be backed up, rethought, and NOT done behind closed doors, secret meetings, bribing Congressmen. We need reform or a few laws passed but we DO NOT need government takeover. Only an idiot would believe this would help. I've been on the public option before, most incompetent doctors I've ever seen, along with the health care. IT gave me incentive to study, to improve myself, so that I could afford not only a visit to the doctor but decent health care coverage. Pay for drug addicts, 12 pack a day smokers, alcoholics, you name it...for free? You have to be ~hitting me?

The honeymoon is definitely over and the only one who was screwed was the American taxpayer. Squandered stimulous money, government takeover of GM, bailouts of banks and insurance giants who immediately gave out the money in bonuses to incompetent execs, and the jobs went to Al Gore's green agenda. BS is green too, remember that. Contracs for solar and wind energy that went to foreign countries, in spite of the fact we have American mfg capable and already producing the products. And they want to force amnesty for millions who are not citizens, do not speak English and are taking the few jobs that are here...illegally.

I am not a Democrat nor a Republican but it is obvious the far left wing ignoring their constituants, holding closed door meetings, bribing their own Democratic Congress members, and their PR, SPIN, and LIES are going to pay a toll.

The tea party exit polls indicate these folks aren't Republicans but Blue Dog Democrats and Independents who DO NOT want RADICAL SOCIALISM, DO NOT want Goverment takeover of banks, automakers, oil companys, insurance companys but simply want reform and safeguards.

Right now I also feel like that Lee Greenwood song, who sings "I'm proud to be an American....or even the Okie from where?" ~amn straight.

The people are talking but are you listening. I'm quite sure the other 10 House Members from Mass now understand the Kennedy gangland is over, and the munchkins, under their rule are now happy to be free, and they know that the office belongs to them, not the Kennedy dynasty.

Don't let it stop. Start the recall petitions on Pelosi and Reid. Only those from those states, California and Nevada can start them. Go for it. Don't wait until 2010. It's time we took our country back, from both the Democrat and Republican politicians and did what was right for this country, not what is PC.

DM7741...clueless

When the most "Democratic" state in the union votes Republican, it means what most of the rest of the country is thinking. This President was and is a mistake.

You're reading far more into this election than is there. Were you aware the Coakley took December off on vacation? Not exactly a bright move when the competition is on your heels. Brown, a former stripper, isn't the average Republican candidate.

Besides, MA doesn't care what the country does with health care reform, they already have virtually universal health care.

Bloggerrich:

Exactly. We asked for a liberal and got a moderate.

Steve-1003320

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Or perhaps you were wrong on purpose.

You must not have been paying attention to the debate on health care or you would have seen the multiple times republicans tried to amend the bill, discuss the bill etc. and being told by either Pelosi or Reid or via votes in committee that it's our bill, we don't want you to amend it or have anything to do with it. We have the majority and we will write this bill.

You have been diseaved and are trying to diseave others.

Stop running against George Bush. Live in the present, which seems to be uncomfortable for the Dems. You had a supermajority and could pass anything of substance. Obama's imperial presidency is over after one year. It took Bush 8 years for his imperious ways to fall.

I think most of what was given to private banks has been repaid or is in the process of being repaid.

When do we get our money back from Fannie, Freddie, GM and Chrysler?

Obama is an emperor? He has imperious ways? You guys are out of touch with reality and recent history. I'm not gonna go blaming Bush, but I will make a comparison. Obama has been very open minded compared to Bush who actually did ram through a lot of legislation along party lines.

How soon we forget and how easy it is to rewrite the past.

stick to the issue...it's healthcare, and this bill does not address the need for reform, it's a big redistributionist payoff for political supporters

Open minded to the public, nut what is going on behind the closed doors?

Everyone keeps saying Bush got us into this mess. All I know is that everything was going good for me until 2007. Let's see, that was the year after we elected the Democratic congress.

The problem the dems have is not the fact that a healthcare reform bill is badly needed for the United States, we all know that reform would be great. However, their problem is that THIS health care bill is not needed or wanted by the American people! It doesn't address the high cost of medical malpractice insurance (any doctor would tell you that is the root of our high medical costs), it doesn't give people the right to purchase insurance outside of thier own state borders (competition brings costs down), it expands an admittidly (SP?) broken and ill managed government involvment in healthcare, and the passage of the senate bill included the under the table deals with labor unions, Louisianna, and Nebraska. Where is the transparency Obama campaigned on? Was he/is he just lying to us? Democrats and most republican's alike, don't get it. We are sick of the politics. We need them to help us. But that help has to rise above partisan politics and special interests. Scott Brown (at least on the surface) understands this. His true colors will be shortly revealed when he takes office. I only hope that he walks the walk after he has clearly talked the talk. Represent the independents and push aside the partisan's aside Mr. Brown. You will be handsomely rewarded for your patriotism!

Brian...

Correct.

I believe the stock market hit 14,000 in October, 2007...the only time this level was ever reached...I'm tired of being told by Democrat whiners about just how bad Bush's 8 years in office were for America.

Brian - absolutely correct. But for whatever reason, people don't seem to know that the Democrats took over congress 5 years ago, and put the far far left in charge.

What is wrong with passing a plan that would let insurance companies cross state lines? If the government thinks they can offer a National plan, then lets let the insurance companies to the same.

I did not vote republican or democrat. I voted for the candidate, so let's stop all the bashing and get our country back on track.

Lets not forget that Dems have had sizeable majorities in Congress for THREE YEARS. Yeah, keep blaming Bush....

To Brian and Tony....things did not get bad for YOU till 2007...well what about the rest of the country. Ignorance! Before talking please educate yourself. Don't go by what you hear or read in the news.

I don't blame Bush....I blame the IDIOTS who put him in office. You got us in this mess. Thanks a lot. Pat yourselves on the back!

Threatt:

If you think our system is so bad, feel free to go to Canada, or any other socialist country for you health care. But you might want to do that early in their fiscal year because they drop all but emergency surgeries for that last 2 to 3 months because they can't afford it. The waiting list at doctors offices can be even longer. Canadians are coming to America for health care! But you feel free to go there for your medical treatment.

Barny Frank did Bush tried to stop this way back during is 1st term and isn't that funny Barney Frank was put in charge bt Obama. YOU CAN THANK BARNEY FRANK FOR OUR FINACIAL MESS

would that psychological help be covered under your health care plan?

LOL It's entertaining to see all the lockstep little Republicans out crowing today. My my, they sure forgot about NY 23 really quick didn't they? Who gives a big fat rats arse about MA. It's a tiny little state with a tiny little population. Wow, you guys have conqured the world! LMAO

Threatt - The democrats ran on the platform of "elect us and we will fix what the republicans screwed up". IDIOTS elected them on that platform and we have gone downhill ever since. Their idea of health care is no more than their entire platform, redistribution of wealth.

I guess you're forgetting that Bush was the president who prevented terrorism in this country during his TWO terms in office and kept you and your family safe. How quick you are to judge him. The IDIOT in the White House couldn't keep anyone safe, let alone an entire country. You're an embarrassment to America.

Bud,

The statement that Canada has poor health care is a lie. Any you sir, are a liar.

Obviously I know more about politics than you idiots. Your showing your ignorance if you believe the BS out of your mouths. President Obama did not create this mess. He is trying to fix the mess that YOU idiots did. Very hard job, I'm sure. To Bud....hope you don't need this wonderful healthcare you believe we have. How about this, research your wonderful healthcare...

You believe we went to war to prevent terroism? Wow! Hidden agenda.....Don't believe everything you hear!

Threatt - look up at the top of this page. Almost 75% of the people voted against your belief. You sir, are peeing into the wind.

I see the ignorance...thanks for the observation. I also know not to use this poll as a basis for the entire country. I hope you know that. I also know not to trust the "So called majority" from past experience, hence Bush!

I'm done...Ignorance is contagious!

LOL It's entertaining to see all the lockstep little Republicans out crowing today. My my, they sure forgot about NY 23 really quick didn't they? Who gives a big fat rats arse about MA. It's a tiny little state with a tiny little population. Wow, you guys have conqured the world! LMAO

Sally, I am confused. You do realize EVERY state has 2 senators right? You do realize that aspect balances the power in this republic so that a more populous state doesn't enforce its residents' beliefs on the rest of this republic? Even with a majority in Congress (where those populous states still have the say-so), without Senate majority, things will no longer get railroaded through. Surely you've seen the effects of what can happen when a President, Senate and Congress are all controlled by the same party? And btw that's NOT just meant for currently.....

Threatt....

Maybe you can educate me, since you have deemed me incapable of "educating myself" to a point where I'd agree with the blathering you've done here. Can you use the word "ignorant" just a few more times ???

Instead you sign off with "I'm done...ignorance is contagious".

Thanks much....that means that the rest of us here won't be getting sick !!!

Let's just go back and forth, back and forth, if anything I hope people will throw out every politician that has been there more than 8 years. Some of these guys should step down whethere they are Republican or Democrat it is obvious that this system doesn't change anything and people blame each other back and forth. Just remember there isn't any difference between most Republican and Democratic candidates they all work for the same big corporate America and its war and medical industry, and most of you fools do what you hear on the nightly news just like you are told.

I love the way Threatt represents the logic of so many of the angry liberals. Here's my analogy:

People like you continuously show your ingnorance. Have you even taken the time to read the Health Reform...obviously not.

Bet you haven't either. Because it's NOT PUBLIC! It's NOT TRANSPARENT like Obama said it would be. It's NOT PARTISAN because they did not include anyone but the "60 votes".

There are so many things wrong with our current healthcare its a shame...pre-existing rules, the cost of medical treatment, the list goes on. You want to keep it the same!

Really? Is that why the Republicans have been proposing health care REFORM bills since the 80s? Is that why a higher % approval rating for the original idea of this bill was higher than the % of registered Republicans? Now that it's around 30% approval, I guess the "You" in "You want to keep it the same" includes a bunch of your own guys, huh? Explain that.

People like you got this country in this mess anyways!

Steve-726645

Lets not forget that Dems have had sizeable majorities in Congress for THREE YEARS.

Threatt

I don't blame Bush....I blame the IDIOTS who put him in office.

Notice the circular argument forming here. Change the subject when someone mentions who was in control of Congress.

JH-479998

Threatt - The democrats ran on the platform of "elect us and we will fix what the republicans screwed up".

Threatt

Obviously I know more about politics than you idiots. Your showing your ignorance if you believe the BS out of your mouths. President Obama did not create this mess. He is trying to fix the mess

Again, notice how he resorts to name calling and diverts the conversation away from the promise Obama made and who was in control of Congress in every year of this recession.

Threatt

You believe we went to war to prevent terroism? Wow! Hidden agenda.....Don't believe everything you hear!

Ah, ok. Liberal logic. Don't believe everything you hear (even if it involves planes flying into buildings and terrorists admitting they did it), but I'm going to tell you something and provide no facts to back it up. *facepalm*

JH-479998
Threatt - look up at the top of this page. Almost 75% of the people voted against your belief.

Threatt

I see the ignorance...thanks for the observation. I also know not to use this poll as a basis for the entire country. I hope you know that. I also know not to trust the "So called majority" from past experience, hence Bush!

And there you have it. A complete circle. All polls don't agree with you (including this one on a liberal media site). reply - BUSH!!!!

I'll agree that many repubs have lost their way and need to get back on track. However I think Scott Brown is just such a man. This didn't happen in one year, you're right. It happened under President FDR, Dem., and his new deal when the socialist tactics were first allowed to be used. Now that many of them are common practice and policy, it doesn't take a whole lot to dig an endless pit of debt using the same ideas. I know this is general, i am not intending to be specific for those of you who will chide me. No matter what a conservative bent republican does anymore it will be a hard fought battle to straighten things out, and especially when moderate republicans and liberal dems rule the roost. Is Bush to blame? Maybe very, very slightly, he did give out the first bail out, but he isn't the one who in the first year of his office piled on more debt than my grandkids will be able to pay. And I'm on my first 3 year old. GET IT TOGETHER! Go Conservative.

Everyone keeps saying Bush got us into this mess. All I know is that everything was going good for me until 2007. Let's see, that was the year after we elected the Democratic congress.

Wow! Everything was going good for you? I wish I had your money. Everything was going good for me before 2001. Within a few months after Bush took office my retirement portfolio began to shrink --- and it kept shrinking --- and it kept shrinking. I'll never get that money back. But at least things have leveled off in the last year and I have not lost any more.

I agree with you, Andrea.

another person who took the sip of cool-aid they offered, along with the lies, the PR, the SPIN, the HATE Bush campaign. No offense to cool-aid, but really get a grip on reality. You fell for the HATE campaign...and by golly you still hate, but you failed to realize you were being LIED to...and I do mean LIED. Al Gore is BTW green all right, BS is green too.

The honeymoon is definitely over and the only one who was screwed was the American taxpayer. Squandered stimulous money, government takeover of GM, bailouts of banks and insurance giants who immediately gave out the money in bonuses to incompetent execs, and the jobs went to Al Gore's green agenda. BS is green too, remember that. Contracs for solar and wind energy that went to foreign countries, in spite of the fact we have American mfg capable and already producing the products. And they want to force amnesty for millions who are not citizens, do not speak English and are taking the few jobs that are here...illegally.

I am not a Democrat nor a Republican but it is obvious the far left wing ignoring their constituants, holding closed door meetings, bribing their own Democratic Congress members, and their PR, SPIN, and LIES are going to pay a toll.

The tea party exit polls indicate these folks aren't Republicans but Blue Dog Democrats and Independents who DO NOT want RADICAL SOCIALISM, DO NOT want Goverment takeover of banks, automakers, oil companys, insurance companys but simply want reform and safeguards.

Right now I also feel like that Lee Greenwood song, who sings "I'm proud to be an American....or even the Okie from where?" ~amn straight.

The people are talking but are you listening. I'm quite sure the other 10 House Members from Mass now understand the Kennedy gangland is over, and the munchkins, under their rule are now happy to be free, and they know that the office belongs to them, not the Kennedy dynasty.

Don't let it stop. Start the recall petitions on Pelosi and Reid. Only those from those states, California and Nevada can start them. Go for it. Don't wait until 2010. It's time we took our country back, from both the Democrat and Republican politicians and did what was right for this country, not what is PC.

andreag23...

If the republicans gave the banks everything, then why did Obama have to bail them out? You can't answer this can you?

If you rewind to when Clinton took office, the economy was already primed for growth. The tech boom happened for about 4 or 5 years than it busted. The economy started to slide and Bush took office. Then we were attacked by terrorist that were training on Clinton's 8 year watch and the economy continued to slide downward. The fed lowered interest rates to stimulate the economy and it worked for a short 3 or 4 years. The problem...unscrupulous lenders and selfish consumers meet at the bargaining table and sign a deal with the devil. In the end, greed on both the lenders and the borrowers parts contributed to the problem we have today. Obama has been in for a year and nothing has changed with the exception that many dems are realizing the mistake they made by putting a guy in that had zero qualifications for the Presidency. Still, he focuses on his health care bill like it is really what America needs right now. What America needs is job growth so people can go back to work and get their own insurance.

We are Americans and we are not socialists. It's time lazy Americans get off the big government tit and start taking responsibility for their decisions...decisions that led us into this bad economy...decisions that were made by democrats, republicans, independants, etc.

As far as Obama goes, that was just a bad decision on the democrats part.

Bush bailed the banks out. How quickly we forget.

Bush proposed the bailout plan. The Democrats in congress wrote it, and did a poor job at it. Obama was already president-elect, and supported it. Bush stated that since this was going to occur on Obama's watch, and Obama approved it, he would sign it.

Stop lying and misrepresenting the facts. The Congress writes ALL the bills, not the President. Congress wrote the bailout plan, and congress wrote the health care plan. They both suck. And they were both written by Democrats.!

wtfwwus

Thank you! The only thing you forgot was to mention that Timothy Geithner (at that time the head of the federal reserve bank in NY) helped to draft the bail out package...you know what his payoff is...his current position! Also, Bush let 1/2 of the money out, leaving the other half for Obama to have $350,000,000.00 in case it was needed...and it has not been used for stimulus, or bail outs, it is being used as a slush fund by the Obama administration to pay back cronies.

ChevsMark,

Thank you! Excellent points. I couldn't agree more. Bush is by no means innocent, but the blind excusing of and omission of Obama's liability in this fiasco is sickening.

And I don't believe the controls on the money that were left out of the Democratic Congress written bill was by mistake. They gave their buddies time to pocket the money. Then they conveniently added in some "rules", but it was too late by then.

I'm not a Republican, but I cannot shed 1 tear for any Democrat who gets booted out because of this. Since the Republicans have been saying "no" to all of this, I think they aren't totally responsible this time.

You are so wrong. I voted Republican for many years, after LBJ but got fed up with the radical right-wing religeous nuts idea of "freedom" and "serving the people". What we need is a return to modeation in all things and pass health care reform of course, but the current breed of Republicans are going to have no part of that. They are too busy serving the rich insurance companies. I would be in favor of some tweaking the current healthcare reform bills, but I hope we don't throw the baby out with the washwater.

Well said Pater-500676.

Where were the checks and balances last decade, when the Republicans had the White House, Senate, House and Supreme Court?? There were NONE. That's why we have the current situation. The dems are only now beginning to bring some "balance" back. The U.S will pay dearly if the fickle public reverts back to the old "status quo".

tweaking will get you nowhere... what needs to be done is reform ERISA which gives companies the tax breaks for providing healthcare. Instead pay the employee the equivalent and let them form their own healthcare relationship. Then you will get rid of pre-existing because it will be totally portable. AND if people are stupid enough not to maintain their insurance,,,, hey personal responsibility. You can also get a cheap catastrophic policy ,,,,,,,,

Democrats who blame the economic downturn on Bush: Watch this CSPAN clip:

It wasn't the Republicans that brought on the housing bust and ensuing economic problems. It started with a bill called "The Affordable Housing Act" by Barney Frank. The Federal government pushed banks to "relax" their standard lending criteria so that many more people could get mortgages and buy houses.

As usual, the liberals don't have a sense of reality. In huge numbers, those people defaulted on their mortgages, which meant the banks owned the houses, which in turn made the housing market crash (ever hear of Supply vs. Demand) and made banks fail

And just if you don't believe it, here's CSPAN footage of the hearings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

The people of MA (who already have a very progressive healthcare plan, so are not affected by giving the repubs a filibuster) have been used by the Republican campaign/fear machine. From the very start of Obama's presidency they have planned and carried out a systematic obstructionist agenda with the goal of hindering all policy from the White House. The plan, as acted upon, was to slow legislation in order to create impatience in the public with the pace of progress. During this time of stymied change the Republicans spread lies and fear about the President's plans (even his birth and religion). Even though they have been refuted, the public will believe them if given enough time. The Republicans wanted to obstruct all the way to the 2010 elections but were given a gift with the death of Ted Kennedy. They have had absolutely not one actionable plan for legislation or governance during this time on any topic. It is "get the party back in power first, country's needs second."

Republicans run effective campaigns in that they know how to manipulate voters - usually with fear and patriotic nonsense. Once in office they ram through idealistic crap without regard to facts. I don't want to drag out the ghost of the last ten years, because GOPers will accuse me of living in the past, but since it is the last time Repubs actually even attempted to legislate it is the only example I can use. They caused our situation with their idealogic right wing agenda and their obstructionist lies.

MA is more gullible than I thought. Do you really think that there is more to be done for the economy if only we would focus less on healthcare? What more could be done short of spending another trillion in the near term? The job losses have stabilized, banks are paying back TARP loans (with interest). It is going to take years to climb out of this hole - not months - and even the repubs know this, but they use that time to rile up resentment anyway! It doesn't matter what is done to fix it. The repubs have no plan either except to ignore it and let the markets correct themselves, with all of the painful losses and staggering job cuts that would entail. Do you really think that the GOP has answers? Of course they don't they only have questions and doubts. Does that sound like leadership to anyone?

What is wrong with you people?

Shawn -- you got it right.

It was sickening to watch Barney "Fudgepacker" Frank try to cast the blame on everyone else during the hearings immediately following the meltdown in Fall of '08.

Fwank's role as the PRIMARY CAUSE of the housing bubble and subsequent collapse of the U.S. economy are indeed well-documented.

Dems are too busy serving the interests of Big Labor, Trial Lawyers, and radical minority special interests. Ask yourself this -- after spending how many trillions of dollars in bailouts and "stimulus", WHERE ARE THE JOBS?????

Shawn....the mortgage issue was not the beginning. Answer this question for me...if you do not have a job how are you going to pay your mortgage? Remember, outsourcing was put in place by who? Guess! I don't know what you remember or what you are believing in the media, but I remember a lot of companies sending jobs overseas because it was/is cheaper. So how are we, the American people, supposed to pay bills if the jobs are leaving. President Obama's plan is to give companies tax breaks for keeping the jobs in the U.S.

radagast: Standing O for this post!

radagast - the only truth in your rant is that the death of Ted Kennedy was a gift, but it was a gift to the country not just republicans. Everything else was pure BS.

radagast - I am from Massachusetts and voted for Scott Brown so I must be one of those gullible idiots you are refering too. You ask, "you really think that the GOP has answers?" My question back to you is, what are the Democrats answers? I am sorry, but bribing Senators from Nebraska and Louisiana are not answers. Ramming a bill, that no one has read, down our throats when the polls show it is not supported is not the answer.

WHO DO THESE PEOPLE ANSWER TO ANYWAY?

I will not deny that Bush started this TARP mess but I think the blame goes far beyond him and the Republicans as you would like to point out. Have you forgotten Barney Frank and Mr. Dodd? They had a huge part in creating this mess. And don't just blame the banks and corporations that gave out all of these suspect loans, what about the idiots that took out the loans in the first place?

Bottom Line - Since Obama has become President, the United States government has a majority stake in the Auto Industry, Banking, Finance, ...and now they want Healthcare too. This does not sound like the country our Founding Fathers intended. The US government is not supposed to own private sector businesses. He is driving us toward Socialism which, in the mind of men like Thomas Jefferson, is CRAP!

well said Boston 1977

Right on Boston! I am a 25 year old male who follows politics fairly close and I am glad to say I am not a drone and don't buy into this crap the Democrats are trying to force feed the U.S. population by strong arming the American people, which by the way voted them into office in the first place. I hope we see more of a balance in the future but rest assured I will never, ever, vote for todays democrat. I am in the middle but know I can't stand their ethics or policies!

I believe that it is a wonderful day to offer Mr. Obama a hearty congratulations on the day of his first anniversary in office.

I believe he's already received the big surprise gift from Massachusetts.

Enjoy Mr. Prez...you've definitely earned what you've received !!!

Threatt

Shawn....the mortgage issue was not the beginning. Answer this question for me...if you do not have a job how are you going to pay your mortgage? Remember, outsourcing was put in place by who? Guess!

Well, since you're too lazy to use google or even search youtube, I'll do it for you.

Bill Clinton himself speaking about it before the vote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C40uvoIw0mw
Note that even he mentions the possibility of jobs lost in technology around 1:27. "..And then when people ARE dislocated here, if they lose their jobs in technology or they don't buy the products any more...".

Here's Obama's viewpoint(s) (which flipflops and you're believing).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZppfH5IJ3a0

If you watch the video with Clinton and are old enough to remember, the Dems back then were even saying it would adjust if things got worse for Americans based on what Clinton said. Apparently, for people like you, "adjust" means to blame Bush over a decade later. The same things are being said now with this health care bill. Dems are saying to pass it now and they'll fix it later if it's not working. Sorry, but fool me once, shame on me.

Brown voted FOR the Romney/Mass Healthcare bill.

Threatt,

Allen-968499 is right, but before that happened the dems passed income tax reform in 1963 and 1964 that allowed American companies to keep their headquarters here and move operations "off shore" and not have to pay import taxes. Also Carter (D) with the last super majority passed laws screwing the auto industry and the military. Clinton and Carter both signed executive orders which gave the EPA (created by Nixon) a vast expansion of power to regulate. This also screwed industry. It's all there on the web to find (if you bother to search for the truth).

This, NAFTA and GATT were all brought to us by the democrats...who still tell us that they are for the working man. But in my experience, all they are there for is to take money from the working men and women and give it to those who would sit on their ass with their hand out for the government to fill. And yes, I am a union member!

How horrible. To laugh at someone else's defeat simply because you have a different political ideology is disgusting. Playground bully, no doubt. You're saying nothing of substance in your post. You say "create jobs instead of just 'saving' them." What are your specific ideas for doing that? Do you have any of your own ideas that aren't given to you by Fox News? And what is with this "Chosen One" thing? Seriously? Yeah, he was chosen...by the majority. Do you really think he can fix in one year what it took Bush eight years to wreck? Rome wasn't built in a day, you know. As far as health care...why should it be dead? I know it was far from perfect, but it boggles my mind that some people actually believe that everybody doesn't deserve medical care. And for the record, you seem way more bitter than Rachel Maddow...the difference is, she's bitter about something that happened last night, and you're still bitter about something that happened over a year ago

And you're still bitter about something that happened eight years ago. If Bush was evil personified, why didn't the Democrats vote him out before he "ruined" the world? YOU let him stay in power for those eight years. People are seeing the dirty deals the Dems are putting forth to try to get the bill passed, and in one year are saying no.

Let's cut taxes. Make it less cushy to sit on unemployment and welfare. And send people to take jobs that aren't normally taken.

Why are there jobs for illegals? Because it is better to sit on welfare and unemployment than work.

Cut taxes for those that hire.

Don't add cost to employers (like manditory healthcare) for those that hire people.

You want more ideas?

Give people a tax cut so they spend the money, instead of pumping funds into projects that get eaten up with administrative costs that are really your buddies.

Strengthen the military. Promote military spending creating jobs in the military contracting sector.

Take the unemployed and have them trade their time in public service for their unemployment/welfare check.

You obviously have never had someone in your family with a chronic condition that had to face the problem of getting insurance with a "pre-existing condition." I see nothing "Rational and Logical" in your obvious glee in the face of all the people in this country who suffer from lack of insurance due to pre-existing conditions or due to insurance companies whimsically canceling their policies just when they need them the most. Someone in MY family faced this, so yes I know first hand what a huge problem this is. The health care bill, flawed though it is, is a good first start in correcting these problem.

While I understand the disappointment in the degree to which Obama has delivered on his promises (he hasn't in many ways) I still find it truly amazing that so many ignorant people in this country think that the best way to respond to this is to vote back into power the very group of people who were most responsible for creating these problems in the first place. Ok sure, the Dems have unfortunately become far too wedded to corporate interests and (for example) the Glass Steagall act was repealed under the Clinton administration. Both parties these days enact policies that benefit their corporate and Wall Street masters to the detriment of the working people and small business. The problem isn't that the Dems have become "too liberal" - the problem is that the Dems have become too much like the Republicans who have been doing this far more vigorously for decades. The Repub party has always been the party of Big Business (at least after Teddy Roosevelt, who was a big monopoly buster but who would have been called a lefty by todays neocon standards). The evil brilliance of the Repub party has been to deflect attention from their obvious corporate/plutocratic economic policies (ie "let's make our friends in our own social class rich by enacting policies that screw everyone else") and to convince the undereducated and undercultured masses in this country that this is really about "defending God and freedom against those commies and lefties." So the masses get all riled up by Rush Limbaugh and then go out and vote against their own economic interests, giving even more power to their plutocratic masters who are laughing all the way to the bank at the gullibility of the voters they hoodwinked.

The Dems now should get healthcare passed, regardless of what happened in MA. Sometimes a president needs to do what's right, not what the ignorant masses think they want or don't want but really don't know the first thing about. 50% of Americans believe in astrology - hardly a ringing endorsement for their ability to understand rational arguments. Pushing healthcare through will piss off some people in the near term but in the long term our country will be far better off.

What most of you dont understand is that both partys are corrupt and care more about power than the people. Unfortunalty the DEMS have figured out a way to Buy their votes by giving entitlements to unworthy people and by taking more from the wealthy. Hate to break it to you guys but the wealthy are the ones who create jobs....if you tax them too much they will just get frustrated and take their jobs somewhere else.....oops already happening. As to healthcare every one knows there is a problem with the system....but having ths governmetn control it?? OMG are we crazy??? what has government EVER done more efficiently than the private sector. Unregulate insurance, allow people to pool together to create more competition and limit litigation..... although i think maybe we should have a better way to monitor doctors competency. Self regulation by the AMA does not seem to work.....

In this one exchange is encapsulated the entire problem. It's not about politics. It's about dumb versus smart. And that battle will take years to win - if it ever is!

This country, sadly, was happier with a dumb, inarticulate president than it is with a smart one.

All of Obama's problems were inherited. But that's already been forgotten.

First, although I didn't watch Rachel Maddow...because I can't....I too am thrilled if she was uncomfortable. She has been blatently insulting toward anyone who holds different views than hers, and so I am thrilled to hear she is upset, as the things she has said ABOUT ME have certainly upset me.

Second, health care is not dead, but hopefully this disastrous bill and the disgusting process used to produce it will be.

Third, Rachel is bitter about last night, Rational and Logical is bitter about Obama's win, but you, acooper, are clearly still bitter about Bush, so you aren't exactly in a position to chastise Rational and Logical for living in the past.

I'd say we all need to get over ourselves and the past and make sure we actually have the transparency and decency that both Obama and Brown have promised us. If Brown doesn't deliver....as Obama clearly has not....he should be thrown out on his butt also!

IM Laughing with you.

HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!

Keeping healthcare the way it is won't be the only thing dead!

My problem with this whole health care debate is that it seems to be thrown together at the last minute and carelessly rushed through the system. I am glad to see that Mass. spectrum shifted from Dem to Rep for one reason only...the Democratic controlled congress is out of control like a freight train without brakes and it needed a wall on the tracks to stop it. They think they need to pass everything in one year...if they want to change the health care system, they need to step back and READ what's in the bill, vote the crap out that doesn't make sense and let the Republicans in on the conversation. The way Reid and Pelosi are handling this major bill is disgusting. You can't rush this type of a bill as it will affect people's lives, pocketbooks and, frankly, our country's future so that their side wins....that is purely selfish. This needs to be a bi-partisan bill.

I suggest that if the Democrats in Congress want to keep their jobs in the upcoming mid-terms, they had better take what happened in Mass. to heart and slow the passage of this bill down or the American people will throw them out.

Sickof....

Great first sentence on your comeback !!! Perfect retort and with perfect comic timing.

Remove CINFUL-1553855 #5.10 entry for obcene language. Thankyou!!!

No...remove CINFUL period. He is out of line, vile and obscene... See his post within #9! Thanks Newsvine.

Threatt

Keeping healthcare the way it is won't be the only thing dead!

Why do you think that the majority doesn't want reform? And why do I feel like I'm talking to lmk again. Did lmk get banned and make another acct?

Pablo, I don't pay very much taxes to begin with. Federal and maybe a fuel tax or something miniscule like that. I don't have sales tax or property tax or state/county/city income tax. I love it here in NH.

NH has one of the largest congressional bodies in the WORLD. I wonder how are taxes are so low. Did I mention I love NH?

So now, why do you want to lower my taxes even more?

mp,

The rest of the nation does not enjoy the same atmosphere that you in NH do. Many of us (I'm in MI) have everything taxed (6% sales tax) except food we buy at the grociers. We have income tax, both State, County, and City. There are taxes on gas (regular state and sales tax), alcohol, cigarettes, tickets to concerts, sports events. I could go on and on. That is on top of the federal taxes. Then if we get a refund from the State which was from a overpayment of taxes which we already had been taxed on by both the state and feds, we have to declare it as income the next year!

I would love to pay less taxes, because it has been proven time and time again that the more of their money a person has, the more they spend, which generates more money for the government than if they taxed us.

They are caring alright. Caring about their own agenda with total disregard of what we want. They are to represent us, that is why they are called representatives. This health care bill is a sham, catering to special interests and if you look at the polls, even the left leaning ones, WE THE PEOPLE don't want this insane combined 4000 page piece of crap.

"Care for ALL citizens of the USA" -- are you kidding me! With whose money? They can "care" all they want, but someone has to pay for it -- and guess who that is -- the working people of this country. Not the people with their hands out -- the ones who always vote for the Dem's! Get real!

Power of the Democrats is embedded in to waring factions Liberals and Progressives. On one hand you have the classic Liberals (Good Democrats) and on the other you have Progressives (Bad Democrats like Nancy, Barney and President Obama) Hopefully, the election of Senator Brown will get the Progressives to show their true colors.

As a sworn independent voter, I will say that there are Good Democrats out there, but they have been stifled by the Progressives. Let us hope that this election will empower them to stand up for the Constitution and the America people and not the agenda of a Progresive.

We said benramz2.

Fascist, socialist, statist, redistributionist....eh what else ? we'll all be living in one room hovels like the east germans and the chinese before they wised up

sure the dems care .......they think.... lets give people something for free and they will vote for us

rocco2 I could not agree with you more.

“You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation… You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”

Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931-2005

Nobody understands the Dems.

You have to be the most ignorant person! God forbid you ever lose your job and it up like the people you speak about. If that is the only reason you don't agree with REFORM than you deserve what you get. I have insurance and a premature child in NICU. If my child hits there max (which is not hard) what do you think the insurance company is going to do....drop my child. Republicans are the ones that have the agenda....Keep them rich and the rest of us poor. Idiot!

Threatt - you need to calm down. That election last night must have got your blood pressure going. Take a deep breath. I totally disagree with you on this subject but I certainly hope everything works out for your baby. I will say a quick prayer if it's OK to do that. I am conservative and don't say prayers very often but some believe that's all we ever do.

Threatt - if you're poor you only have yourself to blame.

Ken...

Thanks. American citizens frightfully believe that those in political office get extra points for being "intelligent" due to the office they hold.

Personally, I do not believe that the majority of politicians are any more intelligent than people I do business with on a weekly basis. In fact, one can spin the dial quickly and come up with quite a list of politicians who reside on the dimmer side of the intelligence meter. Has anyone listened to Maxine Waters lately ???

Just because they are nominated for the job does mean that they would not drag others thru hell to push thru a faulty policy which they wrongly believe not to be so.

If it were not so serious I would laugh , I cant believe you Dems cant see how rididicilous you are . Watch some of the Lame street media and you wonder how they got so stupid. It is the biggest bunch of bull I have ever seen. I guess they are all so far gone on socialism and marxism that they cant see anything anymore. What did Saul Alinsky say , When you face a defeat step on the excelorater. They have become the meanest , most dishonest bunch of liars , they think if they say the same thing over and over again we will believe it. If I wanted to live in France or Russia I would move there. I want my America back and dont want it fundamentaly changed forever.

Threatt

You have to be the most ignorant person! God forbid you ever lose your job and it up like the people you speak about. If that is the only reason you don't agree with REFORM than you deserve what you get. I have insurance and a premature child in NICU. If my child hits there max (which is not hard) what do you think the insurance company is going to do....drop my child. Republicans are the ones that have the agenda....Keep them rich and the rest of us poor. Idiot!

IT IS LMK! At least i hope so. We don't need 2 of them.

Thank you the only rational and realistic portrayal of the state of our health care system. I believe all you have written is true. Health insurance costs are growing at a 7% rate which means that the cost will double in 10 years!

The people of MA ( I live there) don't seem to get the fact that the Republicans are happy to have a system that clearly only the rich will be able to afford. Sometimes the electorate really doesn't think things through.

Absolutely, well said both of you!

Do you think it is right -no just- that the current bill excludes union members and government employees from contributing to the costs for this legislation? So the burden is tossed to the rest of us who can least afford it. You think this doesn't stink worse than any insurance lobbyist? The union bought this guy his seat and now the union is getting their payback. As far as the government employees paying for it, come on, did you really think that was going to happen! I'm all for health care reform, we need it, but not this CRAP shoved down our throats.

Hmmm, I keep trying to find where health care by the government is a right. We only have 3 Rights, Life, Liberty and The Persuit of Happiness. Health Care is something you can choose to pay for yourself or gamble and purchase insurance to pay for. Same thing for Life Insurance. If you don't like paying so much for Health insurance, don't buy it. You far lefty's think everything is a right; next you will want the Government to initiate a Bill to provide all citizens with their own home. If you don't like our Democratic form of government and the free enterprise ways, find another country, but stay out of my face.

KEN-1572690-

We only have 3 Rights, Life, Liberty and The Persuit of Happiness.

You haven't spent a lot of time reading that constitution thingy, huh?

You are exactly correct....let people choose whether they want to pay for Healthcare. However, you must realize if an individual who chooses not to buy insurance or can't afford to buy insurance, gets sick or injured and goes to any emergency departmentthey get "free" healthcare. It's the EMTALA Law signed by the great Republican Ronald Reagan. We all paid for the under and uninsured when they get more expensive Emergency Department care.

Yes, I feel much better as I am exercising my pursuit of happiness right. I'm happy you are will to pick up my healthcare tab...I'm dropping my life insurance today. Thank you!

Hey William Joseph Miller -

Take your Harvard University Medical School Study and shred it. Then, go to the "real" world and explain to me why canadians are lining up in MN and WI for healthcare. A friend of mine's father, 84 years old, who lives in Toronto had a heart attack, went to a Toronto hospital and sat in the waiting room for 4 hours!! Bet you won't find that in a Harvard study because it's actually a fact.

A friend of mines, mother's neighbors boyfirend told me that too! LOL

gensch, he would have waited even longer in an ER in many parts of the country, like here in Tucson where some hospitals have closed their ERs due to inability to keep up with the extreme costs.

Currently....

Why would anyone else have to "pick up your healthcare tab" because you are dropping your "life insurance" as of today.

And thanks for educating us all about how medical costs are paid...will you be explaining the ins and outs of life insurance policies next ???

2009 CIA fact book, our infant mortality rate is twice as high as the infant mortality rate of France.

France has some fuzzy math going on when it counts infant mortality. They don't even count the babies that didn't live longer than three hours outside of the womb where we do.

I so agree with this. We need common sense not huge litigation and settlements.
The other fix that would have immediate results would be to rescind the right to emergency care with no power to the hospitals to turn people away. Instead we need to set up clinics that are the first resource with a referral system after the exam and a conclusion about what care is really needed and modest treatment-available to all. Of course emergency is emergency in which case special care is needed immediately.

I completely agree with you. I don’t want healthcare reform to fail, just this bill as it is written to fail.

How anyone can say that this is reform, with a straight face and not fearing a lightning strike from on high, is beyond me. As I see it, the bill does nothing but add more bloat to an already broken system without fixing any of the problems and costing more to go with it. It is like having a car with 5 flat tires, replacing the spare in the trunk and expecting to drive down the road. What drugs are they on and why aren’t they sharing! I don’t care if they use them, just bring enough for everyone!

Does anyone really want their healthcare brought to them by the same people that gave us the US Postal Service, The IRS, and the TSA? Along with that, It doesn’t address the biggest problems.

I read an article several months ago that said approximately 37% of all tests ordered by doctors were done to prevent them from being sued. The article (I think from Newsweek) also stated that some 20% of the price of a new medicine was set aside to pay for the lawsuits that WOULD come later (not Might). I get up every morning at 04:45 to walk 3 miles on a treadmill. When I turn on the TV, I am greeted by the face of a “Concerned Lawyer” telling me that “If you even THINK that a doctor has hurt you, Call US. We are the People’s Medical Malpractice Law Firm!” He tells me how the doctors and hospitals have insurance and we will go after that. What he is really saying is “Buy your winning lottery ticket here!” What he is really, really saying is “Buy MY winning lottery ticket here!” because the law firm will get the vast majority of the settlement.

I‘m beginning to believe that William Shakespeare was right 400 years ago when he said “The first thing we do, is kill all the lawyers!”

Unfortunately, the lawyers are the ones in congress making the laws. They won’t go against themselves. They won’t go after the Drug Companies, or the AMA because their lobbies are too powerful and give too much cash to these clunkers. They just go after the low hanging fruit.. Insurance Companies… nobody likes them, anyway! Neither will they go against Wall Street or the Bankers because they are even bigger contributors to THIS Cash for Clunkers program.

I hope the election of Senator Brown will send a message to the rest of the Congressional Rats; specially the Pelosi, Boxer, Reid, Kerry, Dean, and Byrd sub-species. If they don’t take notice, November can’t come soon enough!

We got medical tort reform in Texas, with the promise of controlling healthcare costs. Haven't seen any cost control or reduction yet, so don't let that provide false hope for fixing the system.

In fact, it just keeps going up. Yep, tort reform sure helped. NOT

I don't think anybody here claimed that tort reform was the only cause of high health care costs. But it is undoubtedly one of the contributors. And yes, it makes sense to address the problems with healthcare distribution in this country one step at a time so that there is time to evaluate the effectiveness of each step and thus imform the next steps to be taken.

But the healthcare "reform" that Obama and the rest of the marxists currently in power are trying to shove down our throats does NOTHING to address spiralling healthcare costs and will result in hurting millions more people than it will ever help. It is an horrendous piece of cr*p that should be flushed down the toilet where it belongs. And I hope the Democrats in Congress are running scared now because they should be. Mr. Brown RAN on a platform of pledging to vote against this legislation - and he won. The message couldn't be any clearer. And 74% of the people on liberal-leaning MSNBC's OWN POLL made it clear they don't want this reform.

Sorry - meant to say that tort reform alone wouldn't be expected to control spiralling healthcare costs....

Right On!

wasnt flawed until the "pubs had to start paying off their buddies and the Dems caved. Am angry with both parties but at least the Dems advanced a bill.

Keep thinking that Mike and watch all the liberals lose. This bill is loaded with special interests; unions, drug companies, deals with senators, no transparency, $50 billion in medicare fraud annually, zero access to hearings. Obama promised no special interests, accountability and transparency. HE LIED!!

CINFUL..wow that was a bad post...I don't like the guy either and I too am upset about the way our courtry is heading, but I certainly wouldn't want them assassinated!!! Vote them out instead and take a breather!

no one is refused health care in this country...it's the law. Go to the ER

Paul, when was the last time you went to the ER? Hmm? Remember what ER stands for? EMERGENCY Room (or more accurately nowadays, ED - EMERGENCY Department)

Why should someone, with no health insurance, be forced to go to the ER for something that is not an EMERGENCY.

Yeah, they cannot turn you away, but you will wait for several HOURS before being seen. Meanwhile, the rest of us who are insured also have to endure these LONG, LONG waits because of this.

Use your frickin' head! The current system as it is DOES NOT WORK.

Most americans don't have health care because of their own choosing. They can buy beer, cigs, have the most expensive cell phones and new cars, but they can't afford health care. Give me a break. They just think someone else should have to pay for it

Most Americans don't have health care of their own choosing? Just where did you get that statistic? Out of your rear end?

Kind of like all l your like minded buddies Bill that practically LIVE on newsvine whining about how bad their financial situation has become. Not bad enough to cut the Internet though. He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

I am happy with my health insurance. It works fine for me and my family. I pay my own premiums, which is how it is supposed to work

paul, do you actually think that if you have cancer you can get free chemo or radiation in the ER! If you need a triple bypass, do you think you can get that in the ER! How dumb can you get?!?! The ER just refers you to find a DR! which you can't do if you have no insurance!

bill r. Typical Right Wing B$

Hey Sally

Who told you my financial situation was bad. from where I sit it looks pretty good. But then again I planned for my future a long time ago. I lived the american dream by working hard and saving. I didnt sit around on my a-- expecting someone else to take care of me when i got older

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Evidently unions don't care either, they screamed bloody murder when they found out they would have to pay something for others heathcare. Unions, all about taking, pathetic. Only like programs that someone else has pays for- typical socialist and democrat.

Actually my personal experience is that is true that many people who don't have insurance choose not to buy it - but could. Clearly, there are MANY people who can't - and we need to address this somehow as a country. But I am very tired of the people who just have sh*t for brains and are irresponsible - and then blame the "system" when they get sick or hurt and get hit with enormous bills. Suddenly it becomes EVERYONE's else's fault except their own - and the hospitals are evil for billing them. Give me a break.

Karen, in my experience those who want health insurance cannot afford to get it Read this as MOST. Premiums are prohibitive. People have to pay rent, get groceries, pay utilities too. I'm not talking about people who live above their means either.

Bill and Karen, sure, you got yours, to hell with everyone else. Typical.

Well, BJ, I know that the biggest reason BY FAR why premiums are so high in my state, NJ, is because the DEMOCRATS have consistently forced expensive unfunded mandates onto the insurance companies, forcing insurance premiums through the roof. You know, all that "feel good" "progressive" cr*p you and the other moronic liberals are so fond of. But you all never seem to worry about how this stuff will be paid for - because you know you'll just come back and steal yet more money from the taxpayers. So now that health insurance costs are so high - which can almost ENTIRELY be blamed on the democrats - now people like me are the bad guys because we don't want you stealing even MORE of our money?!?

You are clearly one of those standing on line with your hand out expecting everybody else to pay your way.

Most Americans have health care coverage because most Americans actually have jobs....which is why most Americans rejected this messy, convoluted, bribe-filled plan put forth by the Obama-Pelosi-Reid team. Health care insurance is not free for most...there are employee contributions and co-pays at the point of service.

And yes..bill r...most Americans are mostly pleased with the medical care they are receiving and with their own insurance plans. In addition, you've got people gladly spending $200 per month on their I-Phone bills, but will complain about a $30 co-pay for their own medical care.

Then people like you or me get told that we are selfish citizens only caring about ourselves and about wars...and other such boring drivel.

In the year 2006 in the state of Connecticut, the "average" citizen had 38.3% of their paychecks taken by federal, state, and municipal taxes. If you made more than that "average" ...you paid even more. Surely by the end of 2010...that "average" figure will have crawled up over 40%.

How much is enough for people to pay to show enough concern to satisfy folks like James and BJs ??? How much should one have to pay to avoid being called selfish and self-centered ???

50%....60% ???....can someone tell me what exactly the right level of taxation should be so that bill r, myself, and many others don't have to read James' proclamations that we "Republicans" just don't care that others are dying ???

You can stuff it, James....you want a list of the charities I give to ??? I bet I help more folks than you.

How much should each of us be expected to pay for the questionable results we are getting from our various levels of government ???

BJs65..., in my experience I hear more and more people complaining that they do not have insurance. Not online, but people that I know - no one in an impoverished area or anything. Some have big-screen TV's, iPhones or other less expensive data phones with expensive data plans, at least one computer and DSL or Cable, car payments (and replace the payments as soon as the car is free and clear by buying a new car), several thousand dollars in consumer debt, and they don't think this is a problem. They do not seem to live excessively, but also don't seem to be able to make any correlation between their life style and their inability to afford health care.

That is not to say that many cannot afford full coverage. We hear statistics about people that can't afford it, but those numbers are never qualified. What does it mean? What level of insurance? I honestly wonder.

To the others who insist that this bill will move us forward in improving health care (such as "RationalWorldview), please understand that "doing nothing" is always an option that you can take and sometimes it is better than existing alternatives. That said, I wonder why we can't start over and try a "less-than-100-page" bill that does a couple of things mentioned: 1) force the insurance companies into a more competitive environment where their competitors can come from out of state, 2) regulate the denying of coverage for pre-existing conditions - maybe after a 30-90 day waiting period to avoid abuse, 3) perhaps create a forum (state or national) that communicates clearly what everyone's options are - such as Medicaid, Medicare, charity write-offs with-in the hospital system, etc., and maybe 4) include a clear statement about personal responsibility as mentioned only twice in this entire list that I noticed (not counting the "if you're poor it's your fault" comment which is a bit naive). Oh, and 5) regulate against dropping someone who gets sick - as long as they keep up with their payments (you could even build a means to subsidize that).

Is there an honest, compelling reason we absolutely must start beyond those few significant, but relatively simple steps? If we could pass those few concepts, we could watch it for a few years and study the impact. Then we could adjust a little bit as needed and continue to monitor.

James-TheTruth

While most Republicans dont care...Americans are dying. Healthcare needs to be passed.

Tort reform.

Focusing on eliminating the waste and fraud so prevalent in the Medicare and welfare systems.

Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines.

No Federally funded abortions if the situation is not life-or-death.

No illegals allowed to participate.

The three branches of Government on the exact same plan as they would have for the rest of us.

No closed-door negotiations, and a five day period of public debate, as our President promised.

------------------------

Until the liberal/neo-Socialists are willing to actually do the above, all claims of "Republicans not caring" are specious.

To make these accusations without consideration of the proposals above is pure hypocrisy, as it demonstrates the Neo-Socialists are not interested in genuine reform.

I've said the same thing many times that Tony said in post # 10.15 about the outrageous level of taxes we are already paying (I live in NJ where we also have the highest property taxes in the country - again, mostly thanks to the liberals and the teacher's union) - and yet liberals still have the balls to call taxpayers "selfish." So I want to hear from a liberal who will tell me exactly when it is that I will have "shared" enough of my income so that I no longer qualify as "selfish". Because, trust me, from where I'm standing, I passed that point a LONG TIME AGO!!! And I am sick to death of politicians treating me and my husband like we are ATM machines. What part of "we can't afford any more taxes" is hard for liberals to understand?!?

BJs65..., in my experience I hear more and more people complaining that they do not have insurance. Not online, but people that I know - no one in an impoverished area or anything. Some have big-screen TV's, iPhones or other less expensive data phones with expensive data plans, at least one computer and DSL or Cable, car payments (and replace the payments as soon as the car is free and clear by buying a new car), several thousand dollars in consumer debt, and they don't think this is a problem. They do not seem to live excessively, but also don't seem to be able to make any correlation between their life style and their inability to afford health care.

Really now? Let me give you an example.

My young niece just started out as a pastry chef. Her employer is very small, and does not offer health coverage. My niece doesn't make nearly enough to purchase health care. She lives with a friend in a small apartment. No computer, no i-pod or anything like that. She does own a cell phone, but that's her only phone and it isn't even a fancy one.

A couple months ago she had a grand mal seizure after years of not having any (she is an epileptic). She now needs medical testing to determine the type and quanity of anti-seizure medication she now needs (she had been weaned off before). She lost her ability to drive for at least a year.

She's not living above her means. She has a job she loves. In order for her to receive assistance, she'd need to leave her job (she "makes too much" now).

Now, if she tries to obtain insurance on her own, they're going to hit her with that "preexisting clause".

She's up the *bleep* creek without a paddle.

Of course, you don't care. You have insurance. As long as you have what you have, to hell with everyone else.

You are clearly one of those standing on line with your hand out expecting everybody else to pay your way.

No darling, I am not. I do have a job. I do have insurance. However, just because I am covered and comfortable does not mean I leave the rest out in the cold and simply turn my back on them.

I have also worked for the insurance industry and I was disgusted with their tactics. I now work for the health care industry and we are literally held hostage by the insurance companies who dictate to us what they will pay.

Quit assuming anyone who is for health care reform is someone with their hand out. Typical dittohead.

BJ - your niece had a responsibility to buy health insurance. It doesn't cost that much for a single young person. I don't care if she had to have 6 room mates to afford it - it was still her responsibilty. And yes, I would expect her to buy insurance before she bought a cell phone.

And seriously - I hate liberals. They constantly scream that the government should pay for this and the government should pay for that - and then they act all surprised when their incessant and ridiculous demands actually drives up the costs of things for everybody - like health insurance, for example. As I said before and you so conveniently ignored - in NJ alone the Democrats almost single-handedly have driven the cost of health insurance out of sight because of their ridiculous demands on insurance companies in the form of unfunded mandates. Totally typical liberal democrat behavior. I love wealthy liberal democratic politicians - it's amazing how easy they find it to spend other people's money.

So get a grip, BJ, face reality, and quit living in the fairytale land you currently inhabit where taxpayers have magic money trees in their backyard. I've had it with morons like you.

And BJ? Try having a brain in your head. Just because an awful lot of people are against Obama's healthcare screw job doesn't mean we don't see that there are problems that need to be addressed with the way healthcare coverage is distributed. But I am sick and tired of being called selfish when I am already paying close to 40% of my household income in taxes between local, state, federal and business taxes - not to mention all the hidden taxes in things like phone and cable service, gas taxes, etc. So again, when will the levels of income taxation be high enough so that smug morons like you won't feel the need to call people selfish. Will it be 50% of income? 60%? More?

Oh and BJ - here's a couple of more ideas for you to try and wrap your squirrel-sized brain around. It is NOT society's responsibility to financially support your niece so that she can be "happy" in a career that does not pay enough for her to support herself. That is her choice and hers alone.

And BJ? You are very smug and self-righteous in your position that it is perfectly reasonable to expect everyone else to pay your niece's health insurance bills. So why didn't YOU help your niece buy health insurance? Why is that BJ? So it's perfectly reasonable to expect strangers to support your family members but YOU couldn't be bothered? See what I mean about liberals? Brain dead.

Karen

I think I knw when the Liberals will say that taxes are high enough. Its when the W-2 form has only 2 lines:

How much do you make?

Send it in!

Why does everyone blame the insurance companies? Have you ever noticed how much money the doctors and hospitals charge? I work for an insurance company run by a church denomination (so we don't have shareholders, per se), and I can assure you that the insurance companies aren't the only ones to blame. I had a doctor's office charge my wife for a second office visit when she asked a question unrelated to the reason she was there in the first place. That 30-second question cost me an extra $75!

And if the medical industry continues to raise their prices, insurance companies will need to follow suit or cover less. In fact, I read recently that insurers only profit about 5%, nothing unusual there. In fact, I believe Target or Wal-mart makes more profit than that, but I don't see anyone complaining about their prices.

The problem is in both camps. Reform is needed, but not this way.

Hello Brent,

Quite true - but the insurance companies set the allownaces for the fees that they will pay. If you look at the fees that doctors charge, all of them are directly related to the fees that they are allowed to charge against the insurance, that's why hospitals chage you $500 for a surgical kit even though they only used the cotton swabs from that kit. It's all a racket created by insurance companies to maximize their profits at the expense of everyone else - but doctors, nurses, hospitals, etc... aren't going to eat the cost, they just pass it down to the line to the insurees - that's why most bankrupancies in the US are related to medical bills...

I just find it interesting that Insurance companies dished out over 100 million to campaign against the passing of health care reform! I am sure they they did this out of care for people and not to line their pockets!

One way another, we pay. Either pay the insurance companies' ever-rising rates or pay the government to get over-involved, raising costs even more than the insurors they denounce as too costly.

If a $4500 "Cash for Clunkers" program actually cost us over $20,000 per car...as has been widely reported...I think I'll prefer to deal with insurance companies. They may be thieves, but not incompetant thieves. Plus...they don't seem to have to pay as many bribes as our government does.

I voted for and still admire the president. This election was not about the color of the president's skin, Harry Reid notwithstanding. This was about a radical agenda being stopped.

Cinful..i am sure no one voted for McCain based on the fact he was white and not black!

He's as much white as he is black!

True...our first half white president!

Hello Rational,

Most jobs no longer include medical insurance or coverage - so how will getting people back to work fix health care?? Also making health coverage affordable is not entitlement..., living in the greatest country on Earth in the 21st century you would think it would be a right by now...

Healthcare paid for by the government with other people's tax money IS an entitlement. And just because you want to make it a right doesn't make it so.

Hello Karen,

Then what is Medicare / Medicade?? Don't we all pay taxes to provide health care to our most valuable resource - Our parents and grandparents??

Still doesn't make it a right, Bobby. And the government is already having trouble keeping Medicare and Medicaid solvent. Use your head, please. Does it make sense to expand government provided insurance coverage/government subsidies for coverage at a time when the country is drowning in debt, more jobs are being lost every day and the existing government-run healthcare programs are in constant financial trouble and mired in fraud and waste? What part of "the middle class can't afford any more Programs" s hard for you to understand?

Hello Karen,

Right doesn't have anything to do with it - I just don't care to read story after story about people dying in the waiting rooms of hospitals because they don't have any health insurance. This is the United States of America, isn't it?? I think that we as Americans can do better than this - besides this country has been drowning in debt for generations and not one single politician has been interested in paying down our debt, Democrat or Republican. And as for the waste of taxpayer dollars is concerned - the first prize has to go to the Defense contractors, more money is wasted both in actual dollars and in percentage than in any other department of the government including Medicare/Medicaid, but that didn't stop us from attacking Iraq - a country that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack in NYC. The easiest way to shift the tax burden of "the middle class that can't afford any more programs" is to have a simple flat tax rate - the more you earn, the more you pay, yet every year every President trots out the new tax books - 5000 pages of exemptions for the Fortune 500 companies... The problems this country has are easy to fix - the problem is that nobody in power wants them fixed because corporations are in control, and they can make a lot more money with things they way they are...

Bobby, I actually agree with most of what you said. I too am very frustrated with politicians on both sides of the aisle and I agree that we should - and can- do better as a society to truly help all CITIZENS and those who are here legally to have access to things like reasonable healthcare coverage etc. And I agree that there is a really big problem with our current tax system. And while I like a lot of aspects of a flat tax, it seems like it lets trust fund babies, etc. off the hook from contributing to society. I'm not in favor of letting those with vast inherited wealth (read as in the millions) escape their obligations to society.

But while you personally have some good ideas, that is not, unfortunately, the current reality. The fact remains that the Democrats in power aren't considering ANYTHING like what you suggested. And in fact, what the Democrats are currently trying to do is still a massive power grab and will add a crushing load to the the all-ready huge burden that middle class taxpayers bear. And they just don't give a damn. Sorry, but I can't support that.

Is that why the special deals to Nebraska, Louisiana, the unions, federal employees, etc. were needed to support the health care bill? Nothing but Chicago-style politics from a president that promised transparency and "change we can believe in." What a farce. The 'crats are ruining our country with entitlement programs, a crushing federal debt and pandering to special interests. I'm embarrassed to have voted for him.

The only special entitlements that are ruining this country now are the Bush/GOP prescription drug plan and Medicare/Medicaid, which Brown and the rest of the GOP have stated they will not touch.

The only thing last nights election did was ensure that the GOP can destroy this country even faster.

Why would they that was a BIG GIFT to pharm!!!!!

nice rational sentiment

From his posts, I have determined that JAGER is a complete moron! It's not personal JAGER, and everyone that disagrees with your points isn't a bad person. Keep in mind that many democrats don't like where this bill is heading either. Take a deep breath and we may call off the suicide watch team for you. If the democratic side had a compelling argument for passing a productive bill, then one would have been passed months ago. The fact is that Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and the other leaders of the democratic party have failed at providing real change to the healthcare industry. Remember, its better to get it right than to get it done. It's not a win if the majority of the country is forced to swallow a poorly written, special interest leaning, under the table negotiated piece of legislation. If you think that pursuing the current coarse of action is best for the country, then you are in deed a moron.

Scott, I'd be careful calling someone a moron when your spelling really blows.

Hey Jager

The american people do see what we are all about. Did you not see the results in Mass. last night?

Wow that's really Christian of you.

You apparently have a problem with people who are not like you. Reread your post and repent.

As for myself I am a health care provider and I watch day in and day out as the health insurance companies deny coverage using preexisting clauses. I watch them apply charges to the deductible column of peoples EOB's when they in fact have no deductible on their policy. They are counting on voters like you who get their opinions from television to hit a home run for them and keep them making obscene salaries and bonuses.

They are stealing from you right under your nose. A person who believes that stopping health care reform is "saving your ass" could only mean one thing. Previous Bush voter.

The Republicans are doing what their party does best, protecting the big money interests in this country. But they are not alone in this. You the voters who have allowed them to wage unnecessary wars and give tax breaks to the richest of Americans. You should share the blame.

You guys play politics like it is high school football. Your team has to win no matter what. Well your team brought us this economic mess and this President will turn the economy around. But thanks to lemmings like you who would support a war in Iraq when no Iraqi's attacked us, we will all continue to get screwed by the health insurance industry.

Feel free to respond but I'm sure you will say something you heard on hannity or O'righty so I won't hold my breath for intelligent debate from any of you.

For the record I am pro reform, pro government option. Why? Even though medicare and medicaid pay poorly I am a participating provider in both programs.

All of us who work and pay taxes contribute to these programs. When we turn 65 we expect medicare to be there for us. So by fighting the system now when I am relatively young and taking medicare later when I am older that would make me like most of the ranters on this site, a hypocrite.

All of you whiners and reform tankers will be lined up for your medicare benefits in a few years. Why is it that you don't want more Americans to have that same basic right to health so that they may pursue happiness?

Secondly I am a participating provider in these poorly paying programs because I believe in what I do, and believe that socioeconomic status should play no part in my decisions as a doctor.

And here is the kicker, of all the health insurance programs/ companies I deal with Medicare and Medicaid are the only entities I don't have to keep guard over to protect myself and my patients.

If I put the claim in via computer, two weeks later the money hits the bank. No preexisting clause BS, no denial of coverage until I can provide the burden of proof that the patient is actually a full time college student and therefore eligible to be on the parents insurance plan.

No review of the claim for all the BS reasons that private companies use to delay payment of claims or deny coverage altogether.

With private companies I have to guard the hen house. I do not get paid any extra to guard the hen house. I do it for you the patient, and to enforce the agreements/ contracts that I have with these companies who steal from us all.

the dems don't have the balls to past hcr with reconciliation, they lack the courage or their convictions. Ron Paul is the next best way to go. I left the repub party because of all of the lies

this doctor is 110 percent correct

Thank you Jager! How true. Americans have to be the dumbest people on Earth. They fall, once again, for the "lets cut taxes for the wealthiest and create jobs." It DIDN'T work under the Bush Crime Family and it won't work NOW! Let's get taxes back to where they were under Clinton and provide healthcare reform on the backs of the WEALTHY 1% of this country that has all the money! We will see how much really "trickles down" then.

pygme1: are you referring to the Japanese Government's subsidy of healthcare (socialized...) that allows their manufacturing base to be more competitive than our own? That's taxpayer funded. Consider: one benefit of required healthcare "for all" is that it will help create a level playing field for American companies ... some of whom pay health benefits, others who don't... will now be on a more competitive basis within our own borders.

Peace...

They are very caring people-----as long as you are a resident of the Nanny State and willing to be manipulated to keep them in office.

You know what neither party cares for you the little guy. The health care plan, as it stands today is nothing more then a give away to the insurance companies. No bill is better then this bill. Forcing me to spend close to half my monthly income on health insurance is not right. I would gladly pay more taxes to cover everyone. But I will not give the insurance companies money needed to pay my house payment.