You make it sound as if the people wanted to harm the children. They did not go about it the right way without out paper work, but atleast they went down and tried to help!

Intentions or best interest have nothing to do with it. If my family is starving and I have been unemployeed for months does that justify me robbing a grocery store and stealing $200 worth of food to feed them? Laws are in place to maintain order, when laws are broken punishment is due. It's all about choices and consecuences.

Wow... I would be glad people were trying to rescue my kids, take them in, shelter them, love them ,nurture for them and I find it very over whelming that these people are being held like fugitives, when they were trying to help out. Have you followed the story?

Good Points

You DON"T Kidnap children,they broke the law now they MUST pay for their "sins"! Isn't that the way "they" talk to us.

Unless at least a few people in the group of zealots are trained, experienced relief workers, they had no business being there, period.

What would happen if some haitians came here and did the same...............

These people are more likely guilty of being stupid and naive when trying to help. I don't imagine they are "traffickers" but then, now it must be decided. I hope their good intentions were just that, and that they are not kidnappers. But if they are kidnappers......

Once again we try people in the media. Over and over again - Americans (Christians, Jews, Scientologists, Catholics, Protestants....) seem to have all the answers. The children are all fine. No harm was done. Now let those people go. Send them back to the US where they can go back into obscurity. Seriously, do they look like they are into child trafficking??

Oh, they were trying to help... THEIR CHURCH. Ask them why the never adopt American kids.

Hey whoever you are #1 they had the parents permission on most of them the others were orphans..so if the parents wanted them to come to America how can you say they were like vultures...know the facts yourself before you condemn a group that was trying to help these children..

Joshua Turner- I wonder if you have been following the story- yeah, they were taking the kids in to feed them, nurture them- and remove them from the country without anybody knowing what they were doing- no adoption papers, no clearance from the government, nothing. Also, the story the missionaries gave was that they were taking the kids for adoption; the story the parents tell is that the kids were being taken to a camp in the DR, and they would be returned later. Too many inconsistencies to just let it go.

I agree with Freedomfromfreedom. I don't know what those missionaries were up to, but it sounds pretty shady to me. Parental consent, fine, otherwise, hands off!

After Hurricane Katrina, if 10 good-hearted people from another country came in, took 33 kids who may or may not be orphaned, and tried to cross the border with them into Mexico....could you imagine the outrage? I get they were trying to help, but there are proper channels and outlets to do so! Donate money, donate food, donate time, but don't fill up a bus full of children and take them out of the country illegally. Find an actual children's aid organization and work with them.

What they did was extremely stupid and put the Haitian authorities in a very precarious situation in which any option they choose will end up hurting Haiti. They’ve actually done more to hurt the children of Haiti rather than helping them. Here’s why.

If the authorities prosecute them a significant group of people which I’ll label the “average person” for the purpose of this discussion will no longer feel sorry for these people and withdraw support. Even if it’s only 2% of the possible contributors it still means less money for people who need it.

If the authorities don’t prosecute they set a precedent for future child traffickers to capitalize on. Now all a potential trafficker would have to do is claim they’re a missionary with intent to help the children. With a small payoff in an already corrupt system coupled with a belief that the government will let them go free anyway border personnel will be more inclined to let them through.

The question should be why SHOULDN'T they??

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The way they went about this was wrong. Period. Renee1811 stated my point succulently.

Yes, they were trying to help the kids but it does not justify going behind the back of the law to do so. How do they KNOW these kids were orphaned? How do they KNOW anything?

If they wanted to stay and feed and house the kids there and worked on finding out the true state of the kid's situation, then great. But no. They wanted to TAKE THEM OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as the saying goes.

Sure, they were trying to help the children. These people are always doing the 'right' thing despite laws which they interpret to the contrary. Sorry, no sympathy.

Anyone traveling internationally knows to be very careful and very respectful. I don't have the facts, so I can't make a judgement.

In a typical American fashion, they just swoop in and think they own the world and do what they want. Many of these kids weren't even orphans and yet they were moving them to orphanages (supposidely), with a plan to have them adopted at a later stage. They should have at minimum respected the laws of the land (assuming they actually had honorable intentions). So they should pay the price that people who break such laws pay, no matter where you are breaking them or where you are from

you got it renee1811. Could you imagine the outrage if the shoe was on any other foot? It doesn't matter what the story is, and we don't really know anything yet, to take sides is pointless. Regardless, there are proper channels and ways to help. You can't just take a bus load of kids across international borders because you believe you are a saint sent by the same God who just destroyed Haiti. wtf? America's most arrogant and ignorant at their best. Not to be rude, but they look like they are from the backwoods of Idaho, not from the few good cities. Like from one of those scary little redneck cities tucked away in a valley in central or northern Idaho where everyone has a gun rack in their monster truck and they b**ch about big government, universal health care, and are completely freaked out by the word 'socialism', which they really don't comprehend except through what they've seen on their local tv or been told by their other redneck friend who heard something at the Long John Silver's in Lewiston...all while shopping at the hegemonic and homogeneous Walmart and McD's that killed the dreams of generations of independent businessmen in their rotting city. Come on! we all know the type. No offense to you cool peeps in Idaho, because I know you are there, and you know what I'm talking about. I've been there many times.

Once again we try people in the media. Over and over again - Americans (Christians, Jews, Scientologists, Catholics

You forgot, What really about Muslims?

Salam.

You would be glad someone took your children in? And just why is it you would trust these people? Those children could have disappeared from their parents lives forever. Some of the children protested that they had parents and were ignored or their claims disregarded by these people, why? Why spirit them away instead of at least trying to find out the facts of the situation?

If someone had rounded up children during Katrina and tried to bus them out of town with no ones permission, what do you think would have happened. If they just wanted to help, why didn't they get advice from the many legitimate groups already established in the area? Some of you people sound so nieve. When someone illegally "takes" children, even as these children are protesting, the best interests of the children are not what's in their minds. These are stupid, selfish people who committed a crime. How could they have not questioned that what they were doing was kidnapping? No one knows what their intentions were. How dare they assume they know what's best for anyone else or anyone else's children? I know some really wonderful Christians. I also know some who believe they themselves know everything and will single-handedly save all the world's sinners and their children. They snatched up other peoples children! The wonderful ones would never have done something this stupid and selfish. I would be interested on what a background check would bring up on these people. Please, stop assuming what their intentions were. Would you feel the same if they had been good Muslims?

The courts need to make an effort to get to the bottom of this mess. The true intents and actions of these so called good people needs to be investigated. Just because they belong to a religion, any religion, does not automaticly make them good people. There are many people out ther with very sinister reasons for snatching children off the street. Thse people had many other options besides taking them without anyone's permission. Why didn't they persue them?

middleclasswarrior, just what does a child trafficker look like? I'm sure all of the law enforcement agencies would like to know. It sure would save them alot of time and effort. I'm not judging these individuals, but who would have thought 20 years ago you had to keep an eye on the local priest? Let the Haiti legal system deal with them determine what they were up to.

There were and are plenty of ways to help in Haiti, without going and snatching children! These are very questionable actions at best, they need to be investigated!

The reason they are being held is that the officials smell a chance to cash in on some big payoff money. They want bribes.

Those who talk about the shoe being on the other foot should get a clue. Flatly, you have no idea what it is like there, absolutely none.

Why would anyone collect a small group of children in a disaster area and try and remove them from their home country? I think if a church group arrived in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina and collected 30 children and tried to take them off to Mexico or Canada, Americans would be examining the motives of such people very, very closely.

There is plenty to do in Haiti to help homeless, hungry and injured children without trying to rmove them from the country. Something is not right here.

WHAT?!!! We you don't have to observe Haitian law anymore? You think that because Haiti was hit by an earthquake you just the need permission from somebody in the Domincan Republic to take Haitian kids out of their home country?

Oh, I get it. This is this a White thing? Because the takers were White, their motives are automatically pure? WHO ARE YOU !*@#%!! PEOPLE!!?

All initial reports indicate that they DID NOT SEEK AND DID NOT OBTAIN the proper written authorizations from the HAITIAN GOVERNMENT to transport those children out of the country. In any case, they're not going to summarily execute them. Their going to court to be tried against the evidence just as, I HOPE, would happen here.

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot. Some of you have never understood nor agreed to the equality of man or rule of law. Those Haitian children were, therefore, just commodities and the Haitian government is moral bound to relinquish them to caucasians under any whatever pretense they offer...especially when you, who have probably never left the United States, say that their intentions were so noble.

How is anyone supposed to obtain paperwork when there is no place in which to obtain it? All of the buildings were destroyed, the workers are on the streets trying to survive right now. How the hell is anyone going to get a bunch of passports for a bunch of orphans?
They were acting quickly to get those kids out of there. I don't think they should face up to 25 years in prison for that. Were they naive? Absolutely. They should be fined and serve a short sentence, like 90 days, but not 25 years! I'm not a big organized religion fan either, but I'm willing to bet that those people just wanted to help, even if they were really idiotic about it.

Oh, I get it. This is this a White thing? Because the takers were White, their motives are automatically pure? WHO ARE YOU !*@#%!! PEOPLE!!?

dingdingdingding!!! And there it is, ladies and gentlemen! The race card!! dimba, thank you for playing...maroon...

I think this is a travisty and an embarrassment to our country. If you read all the facts this group was not "helping" those kids, they were stealing them for sale. It was worse than human trafficing or Child trafficing, it was kidnapping children for sale for profit to possibly adopt them or do whatever they were going to do with them for that woman to pay all her bills. It was taking children and just about regressing back to Black Slavery, children for sale for adoption for the highest bidder. They made empty promisses to these kids and their parents. They are manipulative and decetful and I have NO sympathy for them and I hope they all spend time in prison in Haiti for what they tried to do. Thank God they stopped them.

And now that our country has been so heavily involved with helping Haiti, I hope the Haiti Government does not let these people off easy out of fear that if they give them what they deserve we will stop helping. It discusts me that I know politics will get involved with this. I hope our Government stays out of it and does not try to "help" these criminals and let them get and serve what they earned. To me it is cut and dry. God Bless Haiti.

Let them stand trial. If their intention were pure they will get their chance to prove their innocence's. It's okay if they broke the law they need to stand trial. I personally think they were not above boards and we'll soon find out.

They broke the law, they should pay. Since the head of the group has so many lawsuits filed against her and she was in need of money, what were her intentions really. I think they lied. You just don't enter a country and steal their children without proper papers. This needs to be looked into more. You can't use God's good name and say it's for a cause. They will be punished.

If a U.S. pedophile took a child across international boundaries, they'd be arrested and thrown in jail and probably be murdered in jail. These people probably weren't pedophiles but they tried to take children across international boundaries. That is a crime. The parents are alive.

Previous stories stated that some of the children did in fact have parents. I'm sorry but if you see a child in need you report it, you try and help the family, but HOPEFULLY you don't snatch the child and try to spirit it away. If they are well-intentioned, they are idiots; if they want to proselytize, there's plenty of fields "ripe for the harvest" right here in the US. And if they wanted to help the people of Haiti they could have taken their airfares and donated them to an orphanage there!!

How Christian of them to tear children from their families and homes instead of offering aid...(food, shelter, clothing, water and medical aid). Legitimate organizations do not tear families apart but help keep families together and offer food, medical care and clothing and education.

Since the leader of this religious group is facing extreme financial problems at home as well as what ever the court decisions are as yet to be determined, the money to be made off the "adoption" of these innocence could have been substantial and the money is obviously much needed.

There is no such thing as coincidence....financially strapped used to be entrepreneur turned leader of new found church facing multiple charges in court lands in Haiti's chaos and ends of trying to get across the border with thritysome kids she conned their parents into giving up with no paper work.....child trafficking.

I wonder if this zealous group has done this before?.........they didn't seem to have a hard time pulling this off until they got to the border. Something to look into. Wonder if they had clients already lined up for receiving kids.

None of us really know what the intentions of these people were and ALL of us should know that laws are in place in every country on earth to protect the citizens. To pretend you do not understand that is just silly and taking children whose families, nuclear or extended, may be surviving and searching for them is not only illegal, it is cruel.

No matter what their intentions were, they broke the law and should be prosecuted. If someone steals diapers because their baby needs them, they may have the best intentions but they are still breaking the law.

As a fellow Idahohoan, I am not proud of what these people did. However it is important to remember that this is not a reflection of the general actions or attitude of people in this state. To comments such as the one made by mindlessbuddha - your lack of knowledge on Idaho is evident as these peole are from Meridian, a city in Southern Idaho that is a suburb of Boise. Being an ignorant "redneck" is not commendable. However, being an ignorant outsider who uses those ignorant thought processes to make judgments about other people is even worse.

So quick to pass judgement when you have no idea what the truth is.

Seriously, you act as if you know that for a fact. What kind of profit do you think they would earn? Last I knew raising kids is expensive. I agree that they acted hastily and did not think it through, but none of these kids were found hurt or injured. If they were truly trying to profit from these kids, I would think that they would have very little regard for the children which is not the case. Do you research before you make outlandish statements.

Freedom from Freedom...

Intentions or best interest have nothing to do with it. If my family is starving and I have been unemployeed for months does that justify me robbing a grocery store and stealing $200 worth of food to feed them? Laws are in place to maintain order, when laws are broken punishment is due. It's all about choices and consecuences.

I don't think we can compare stealing apples... and... offering assistance to children (with the village's presiding Haitian Pastor and parents help and consent in the arrangement)

I can understand a REASONABLE fine if necessary, but if the statements of the involved missionaries, Haitian Pastor, and involved parents are shown to be true...through the witness accounts we have all seen broadcast, and any other supporting church documentation, communications with Dominican Republic authorities, and the verified existence of a safe haven these missionaries were preparing for the children...I believe to throw these people in prison would be an injustice.

"Offering assistance to children"? Gimme a break!

If they wanted to offer assistance, they could have brought help to Haiti in the form of food, clothes, education, money, etc., etc., etc., and not try to take the children out illegally.

So why do we ever remove vulnerable people from dangerous surroundings?

Will: Claims about Christian theology being the basis that our freedoms today are based on, oh I just laugh and laugh and laugh. Democracy was invented in PRE-Christian times! You may remember a lil society known as ancient Greece? Democracy was further fleshed out by the Romans, y'know...the ones that crucified Jesus? Do you know what historians call the period in-between the fall of the Roman era and The Enlightenment? Y'know...that period where Christianity spread across the globe by hook or by crook and democratic governments all but disappeared from the planet? They call that the Dark Ages, because Democracy was practically squashed out of existence by a feudal society that spread your beloved Christian theology. In a feudal society, Kings are next to god, and many claimed status similar to that of the Pope. It fact it was a Christian king who created the Church of England, and it was this Christian church that caused our forefathers to flee England and set up a country that does not endorse any one religion over another. It's in the Bill of Rights, man!! If there ever was a case to be made for why church & state should be kept separate....just look at the story of the American Revolution. It was founded by yes, religious people, but they were religious people trying to get religion out of gov't. These Christians in Haiti are in jail because they put religion above gov't rules, in other words they did not respect that distinction.

a little over-simplified, Barry-411365, but right on! Of course, considering the general audience on newsvine, I'm not sure if your targets will even get it, or if they even know any history. I really doubt it. But LOVE IT anyway! You rock.

You tell em Barry-411365--"Amen" brother.

I agree, very well put. Let's not forget the Spanish inquisition. Funny that you should mention the separation of churh and state...we just had a verdict here in Oregon, that convicted a couple, who believe in faith healing only, in the death of their 16 yo son. He too, believed in prayer only, and was legally able to decide to decide to go to doctor or not. Separation of the two seems to take place only if it's convenient to do so.

KJR

It looks as though the leader of this band of zealous non Catholic Christians may go to jail anyway due to her conduct prior to establishing this lovely church....so if this gal has already shown her propensity for shrugging her responsibilities to other human beings (all of her employees and lawyers she never paid wages to) what makes you think she will come through for these innocent children from families in desperate situations? I see the leader of this religious group as a con artist and a hood winker................the fact that she created this church and has followers is merely corroboration of her abilities to bamboozle people-----Jim Jones was very good at it too.

Debbie McCarten,

I object to the mob mentality that is stirred up by journalism such as that surrounding this story, when we do not have all the facts...and each day a new round of assuming is stirred up by articles such as this. There are many people loosing homes to foreclosure, many businesses going bankrupt, and many people taken into court that are not guilty of anything criminal.

If this group had harmful motives in taking these children, than I hope that is discovered and they are held accountable. I just do not think we know that at this time...however I think we do know there are many children who ARE IN FACT, endangered and suffering in Haiti...thus I do not like to see distractions such as this taking up precious resources needed to assist, and also to catch and prosecute those who are mistreating children in Haiti. I wonder where those in Haiti's government were during the abuse, slavery and poverty that Haitian children lived with everyday BEFORE the quake. I felt that if this church mission's plans were truly as they stated (and as the Haitian Pastor and some Haitian parents stated) then improper paperwork or not following proper guidelines should be addressed...maybe they should be fined...sent back to U.S....whatever. I just do not think that throwing them in jail for a few years is going to accomplish anything good in the big picture of things.

I also think there are many legitimate people who could and would like to help, but the Haitian government can make that very difficult. I personally believe that allowing Haitian orphans to be adopted...and the process to be expediated...would be a good thing for the children.

Thankfully, there NOW seems to be a move towards welcoming help from Haitian "ex-patriots" I believe they are called...those who have left Haiti for the U.S. and Canada and pursued educations, and would like to be involved in helping Haiti, but up to this time they have been mostly looked down upon and excluded by Haitians and those in government.

At any rate, without knowing all the facts, we don't know all the whys or situations behind this groups mission...and the point I have tried to make is that there could be nothing but good motives and intentions without an adequate application of the plan. These people could have been misled by others. And this woman could be someone who has not made very intelligent, thought out decisions, but still had the well being of suffering Haitian children as her motive.

I am always shocked to see how so many people seem to want to sweep in like vultures on someone they don't even know. And many of these comments seem more about the commenters ill regard for religion or Christianity than anything else, which is sad. I realize that there are some who give organized religion a bad name...I just people could stop hating what they don't really know.

KJR,

Most people whom I have met, especially in America, who hate religion do not do so out of ignorance. I was raised religious, exposed to a great number of christian "faiths", and well-scooled in the bible and other christian texts in private schools and churches as well as at home, and it is that very personal knowledge of the tenets and history of christianity which led me to the conclusion that christianity, like all religions, is at best misguided and at worst dangerously divisive. I do know your religion all too well, and I do hate your religion. I, like so many others you dismiss as unknowing, come by my atheism honestly, thank you very much.

I did not mention what my religion is...or if I belong to any organized religion at all. I also did not mention anything about my faith or what my beliefs are. To stereotype all members of any group...IS IGNORANT...and "most people" know that. For the record, I know and respect some Atheists who do not share your views of "hate" of religion. They don't feel the need to hate and condemn something they have simply not chosen for themselves...as is usually the case when people are confident and comfortable with their choices and beliefs.

Why don't you stop benefiting from the culture that brought you this great country we live in if you don't like it. Go live in a more accepting culture! Hate to break it to you, but it was Christian theology and moral obligation to a "higher" authority that shaped the freedoms we enjoy here today. If you don't like it - MOVE! We are exceptional here, that's why other countries either want to be like us or hate us.

We are NOT exceptional! We are LUCKY enough to have been born in this country, that's all. I'd just love to see some of those who claim to be so exceptional try to live in a place like Haiti, or any number of other impoverished, exploited cultures, and do any better than those unfortunate enough to be born in one. People are the same all over the world. They just have drastically different realities to deal with. I've lived in Idaho and was always fearful of the iron willed righteousness of Idaho Babtists. Many of them seem blind to whatever they'd rather not see. And that includes the idea that maybe God didn't send them to "save" poor people in distress. When I lived in Lima, Peru amongst poor people, I noticed how all those affluent American missionaries went to gringo restaurants, without any poor Peruvians, when it came time to eat. To me, that says it all.

Eric:

Many religious types do "act from a higher authority" but most have common sense...just like yourself. You are right, they should have checked it out.

Right on the money Ed - We've been blessed with much greater opportunities, greater freedom's, and overall a much better place to live. We're all very aware of the child trafficking trade for labor and sex around the world. If any of you have children of your own - I hope it hits home how dangerous a place it is out there. I watch closely my kids outside in my own front yard (which sucks because it wasn't like that at all when I was a kid) I want to believe this group had all the right intentions, but that's a dangerous game they're playing attempting to take children out of the country without the right to do so. I would absolutely feel the need to do a thorough investigation on what happened. Hopefully they are innocent and found as such, but some of the details sure seem sketchy and not the approach that I would assume an upstanding church organization would take. And as with any group or organization, there's "mostly" good people involved, but on the fringes are the people who scare me. Both muslim extremist and christian extremist alike. We're dealing with a case of a christian extremist who murdered an abortion doctor in the name of his religion. No religious group is ammune to extremists..

Good post.

Yeah, lets see how that "higher authority" protects their idiotic asses in a Haitian prison.

Ed Weeks

Great post. Thanks for your thoughts. I personally hope they don't go to jail, but it's now up a higher power - the Haitian courts!

Ed Weeks is onto something. We can tend to get arrogant about our American-ness. Who knows the motivation of these 'missionaries'. Maybe their hearts were in the right place and they were mis-guided about paperwork. But I doubt it. If they are egocentric concrete thinkers they felt they had a right and moral obligation to take the kids. I arrange travel for people and bristle every time someone refers to the practice of other countries driving on the "wrong" side of the road. These are the same people who are offended by cultural differences of native residents when they are in a foreign country. They also comment about the trip from the airport to their resort as being "depressing" seeing all the poverty. They want the world to revolve around them and aren't interested in learning anything. Very narrow thinking. Elitist.

So according to Ed, Andy and JR the only reason America became and has remained the greatest country the world has ever known is......."luck".

I disagree.

First off I do not believe in "luck" any more than I believe in "divine intervention". I believe America rose to the top because our love of individual freedom has, in fact, made us exceptional. The truth of this is evident by the fact that the more control of our lives, money and decisions we allow the government to take, the more America and it's citizen's standing in the world is diminished.

Just a thought.....What if the LOCAL "guide" who was so nicely showing these Americans around, helping them find "orphaned children", actually orchestrated this whole incident as rouse. If the authorities are busy prosecuting "imposter traffickers" (naive unassuming do-gooders from America), they have little time to search for "actual traffickers"(locals who make lots of money trafficking). Maybe someone in Haiti saw this as a way to divert the attention of this real problem away from the locals and focus it on someone else. Who better to use as a "mule" than a foreigner? Sick as it is, there are apparently many (in and out of the states) who like to take advantage of children. With regard to the missionaries having/not having the proper paperwork in order to help the children, who REALLY knows what they were told? They are foreigners! There is much to be misunderstood or inadvertently left out given the language barrier and the conversion in translation. From what I know so far, some of the children who were accompanying the Americans were not orphaned and THEIR PARENTS WILLINGLY handed them over in hopes they would having a better future in America. Unfortunately, not many people want the "help" the U.S. provides. I sometimes think we would be better off helping the many people in our own Country who are in need everyday. After all, American can't prosecute itself for trying to do a good deed....

Y'all need to stop trying to make political hay from this. I don't think most of the Baptist folks involved were guilty of anything other than ignorance, naivite, and trust. The ones who should bear the brunt of responsibility are the woman who was the "leader" and her former nanny. Ms. Silsby had been planning an orphanage for some time. She had been informed of the the need for papers and the possible consequences of transporting the children without Haitian legal authorization. She chose to ignore that warning. Her former nanny had been working with her on the orphanage scheme for the past year, so it seems unlikely that she was duped.

One of the things that should also be considered in this discussion is that the CEO of SOS Children's Villages, the group that received these children when they were taken from Silsby et al, reported that the children were dehydrated, dirty, inadequately dressed, and in need of medical assistance. And Silsby's group didn't even have an existing facility to take these kids to. Does that sound as if the children were being cared for by people whose first concern was the safety and well-being of the children? Add to that the fact that there was no one with them that spoke the French Creole dialect found in Haiti, and I think their defense is on very thin ice.

Actually not Will. If you had studied our history (which obviously you have not) you would know that the Founding Fathers built separation of church and state into our Constitution, in part because a large number of them were NOT religious people.

Will, the reason that most folks hate us it do to our arrogance. The US for years has had this misguided notion that the rest of the world has to be just like us. We have a history of butting our noses in places it don't belong. That has come to bite us in the ass more than once. It has led to some people, thinking that we are so much better than the rest of the world. Before you get bent outta shape, I love this country, and as a veteran, have always defended it's people, but as someone else stated different does not mean wrong.

Will has been thoroughly propagandized, I see. When the Declaration of Independence was signed, fewer than one fifth of the population of what would become the United States claimed ANY religion at all, Christian or otherwise. To claim that this society was established on "Christian values" just demonstrates your lack of understanding of our cultural history.

You seem to be as righteous as those who are charged. Other children have been brought out of the country without this type of behavior. Actually, the people charged are why so many people around the world don't like Americans. There are those Americans who feel superior to the cultures and laws of other nations. Please, if you really believe, be humble and continue to give to those in need.

Just like AMericans and illegals from Central America are BOUND to follow our laws in the US, anyone who goes to another sovereign nation, including the dump called Haiti, has to follow their laws.

How dare these people arrogantly go in an do whatever the hell they want, regardless of good intentions, to smuggle minors out of their homeland? How DARE they plan on getting a dozen kids out when they could just as easily spend their time there to help organize local and int'l orphanages and registration of destroyed family units, etc.

What's next? Why not go into homes of black Americans and pull their kids out without regard to our own laws?

JW - You're an idiot!

Children without a birth certificate cannot attend public school, cannot get a passport, cannot do anything and are completely at the mercy of their captors. Even in a benign situation - and this has not been proven to be so - these people lied and put these children in a potentially harmful situation. The parents, too, were forced to trust strangers. Surely this group could have brought in food and set up a legal process if they were legitimately trying to help. Sounds more like wanting to give them to the highest bidder and calling it a "donation."

No legitimate missionary takes children from their home and country without legal authority in order to "save" them. Without a passport they can't even return. As for Hillary, this is currently a legal situation, she will monitor until appropriate to step in. We don't own Haiti.

Instead of helping the families with children, they were cohorsing the parents to give the m up for a claimed "better life" clearly taking advantage of their desperate situation... and these people claim to be Christians???

How dare they what? Oh you mean get upset because someone kidnapped their children?!?! Honestly...our country is trying to help but this group of people is doing nothing to help. Basically lying to parents about how they'll take care of the children and give them a better life. It's groups like this that truly hinder rescue efforts. No matter how you look at it these people are kidnappers. If they want to help the kids they should stay down in Haiti and help rebuild homes, schools, etc. not just steal kids.

I do not feel sorry for them missionarys go all over the world preaching there way this is a big world with many walks of life, they are not above the law and should be tyred as kidnappers. and when they push there way onto other lands well again do not feel sorry when bad things happen to them everyone has a right to freedom of choice but religion is not the law and does not make a person above to law or any better then the next the whole ida is be good and help each other

Some churches, let's face it, have ulterior motives. They are entirely too locked into their fundamentalism and their 'holy' books. And some leaders of some of these 'churches' even go beyond those limits.

Let the courts of the country where the offenses are taking place decide. It is their people who are being impacted by the ulterior motives.

JW I had never realized that it is alright to take advantage of a countries laws and procedures just because they are experiencing a disaster I also wasn’t aware that throwing a temper tantrum that could cost lives is the best course of action. Why don’t you stop being such a ignorant fool and realize that the USA is not full of god men who are above the rest of the world that we are all instead just human no different from the people in Haiti. Do you realize that the other people on earth are also human or has the love of your “hard earned money” caused you to forget?

By show of hands...

Who would support deporting the moronic Auh20 to some hell hole - like Iran?

I agree with JM. How dare they!! We have spent millions of dollars, and have millions more in volunteer labor hours helping this situation. Whats a child or 33?? We should have the right for payback! Let the Christians take a kid or two...NOTHING IS FREE!! Isnt there something in the Bible that justifies that? If we cant take what we want in payment, then yes, bring our money and peolple home! Except Hillary...she can stay! Hmmm...wonder how many children the zealots can get for Hillary.....Maybe she's good eatin...for an old cow....lol

Ok GCGOP, so we can take your kids the next time and not tell you where they want or let them think you are dead?

Zivo I have both hands up..

You cannot go into a sovereign country and do anything you want, disaster or not. Clinton is doing just what she should be doing at this point..... nothing.

These people have changed their stories several times. We have no idea what their true motives were or what their intent was with these kids. For all we know they are front for a pedophilia ring.

AuH2O!

Have you read the Newsvine CoH. If not I would strongly urge you to do so. There is a reason that your comments 4.9 and 4.11 have been collapsed by the community.

Haiti is a sovereign nation and the their laws apply. When you travel outside of the US the laws of the country you are travelling in apply.

It is my understanding that this people did not have the proper adoption documentation. You know those pesky child trafficking laws. Let the Hatians sort it out.

Freedom of speech is an honor, JW. You should try to think, with at least a bit more than the 5% of your brain you are using, before opening that pie-hole. What arrogance! Why don't you hook up with GCGOP and corn-hole each other with your guns. And don't worry GCGOP, NO ONE WOULD WANT TO TAKE OR SAVE YOUR KIDS. poor kids...

So "JW" if I collected a group of children in your home town and took them off to Canada, and arrived at the border without documents to show I was their lawful guardian, you would want the American and Canadian border guards to just wave me through?

Yes! How dare they not let us do whatever we want to them, including kidnapping their children (and perhaps murder, rape and robbery as well) because we gave them assistance in their hour of need. They OWE it to us (NOT!)

i think we're being a bit harsh on GCGOP - he's surely having a laugh....... isn't he??

But but but...its all about the family! Dems can spend millions to save these people, then why cant Christians take a few kids? Their small! They were all under the age of 10! They cant take up that much room! I say let them have thier pick!

Wow that's a really sensible sane suggestion AuH20. BTW what would have happened to all the wonderful military bases had they already acted on your so eloquent suggestion? Are US army bases immune from earthquakes? I am trying to think of an imperialistic country you could move to that condones invasions in order to raze a country to build defenses based on infantile fears of invasions from Cuba or Venezuela. Luckily I think most of those nations have seen the light. However, maybe Cheney could give you some hints or better yet the two of you could find an island somewhere.

PS exactly what is your problem with Venezuela? Surely you should admire Chavez for taking something over like the oil industry's equipment there. After all, you condone taking over another nation's assets for YOUR purposes. How is that any different to Chavez and Venezuela's past actions? Also have YOU ever traveled there? You may be surprised what you would find.

Listen. We can all debate about how much or how little our country is doing in this situation and all of the similar situations we have helped with in the past. Our humanitarian efforts trump all other nations and we have a right to be proud of that as a country. That being said, our country will always be looked at differently and some of the people accept help with open arms and some will always complain that we didn't do enough. In my opinion any help we give them no matter how small is better than none. And some countries will still continue to hate us after we help no matter how much better we make the situation. But honestly, this small group of "vigilantes" broke laws plain and simple. They knew what they were doing was illegal and continued to proceed anyway. If any of them truly believe that what they are doing is right it is ashame. Goes to show that not everyone trying to help has truly good intentions. Just because the Haitian government gets upset after someone kidnaps their children doesn't mean they still don't appreciate and need help from those who are honest and forthright.

DebDo54- Well, I'm guessing they want help, as anyone in their situation would, but I think they would like the "helpers" to refrain from taking children out of the country illegally. I really don't think that's too much to ask.

Debdo they were taking the kids out of the country illegally. Unless you are an insider you don't know their intentions. They need to be tried in Haitian court not let free just because they were born in America. You are the epitome of the sanctimonious American that gives the rest of us a bad reputation.

Debdo I don't think they want us to "help" ourselves to their children. Besides that, just because they say they are missionaries and have good motives, doesn't mean its true.

Some churches, let's face it, have ulterior motives. They are entirely too locked into their fundamentalism and their 'holy' books. And some leaders of some of these 'churches' even go beyond those limits.

Let the courts of the country where the offenses are taking place decide. It is their people who are being impacted by the ulterior motives.

I agree with your post...but "leave it to Christians to do stupid things in Christ's name?" I suppose the obverse to that statement is "Leave it to non-Christians to do stupid things...?...because they're stupid?" I kind of like "stupid is as stupid does", the best. The rest of your post is right on.

There's a case here for kidnapping, but not trafficking. And atheists using this as an overzealous opportunity to attack Christians is simply short sighted and ignorant. This could've come from any group. Believe it or not, atheists do criminal activities as well. But I bet the atheists on here would cry foul if all atheists were branded as stupid or criminal simply because of a handful of bad ones. Now WWJD really? Well he was known for going against the law if he felt that it was the right thing to do, so who knows, maybe he would've done the same thing if he were in their position.

OH COME ON!! Whats a child or two...or thirty...or more. We deserve it for all the help those damn Democrates have been doing!

So are you implying that ALL Baptists are self-righteous? Because if that's the case, you, sir, are mistaken. I was a Baptist all my life and only converted to Catholicism when I got married this past November. My faith is what keeps me grounded and wanting to do good things for the world. As for Cafeteria-style Christians, that's a straight-up insult. We all believe differently. Just because Baptists beliefs are slightly different that what Catholics believe, or any other religion for that matter, doesn't mean they "pick and choose" what they follow...but then again, isn't that what religion is all about? Following what you know to be true in your heart? Truth comes in all different forms and varieties. Don't insult one religion just because an idiotic few decided to act on something they knew better not to. So before you go judging a group of people just because of the acts of some, get your facts straight. Yes, I agree that they didn't go about this the right way, but that doesn't mean you have to insult all Baptists.

So you are making money off the Nepal sex trade?Bet you are.

One of Satan's most effective ways of turning people from the truth is by feeding them lies, and calling it the truth. Afterall, he is the father of lies, and that is his native language.

I don't know the details about these organizations you speak of, but if what you say it true, then they definitely are not christian, regardless of what they call themselves. Simply saying that I'm the King of England doesn't make it so.

Who? O another one of those mythical figures...

Look...Christians have allot of $....allot of churches...allot of bibles! Those bibles and churches aint gonna dust themselves off!! Maybe a little enslavery is necessary when the Lord says so! Besides...at least the will get fed!

Woohoo! I love wallowing in the filth with the likes of GCGOP! woohoo! Harder, GCGOP, harder baby. If newsvine represents both sides, we are in BIG TROUBLE. What a bunch of idiots.

There certainly ARE good people out there who identify themselves as Christian, but over its history, the religion has been used to justify MANY terrible behaviors, from slavery to genocide to other forms of imperialism. Christianity was the tool, used by the elite whether they actually believed in its ideology or not. I am agnostic, don't know if there is a God, and don't care, but to blame an entire religion for the behaviors of a few reminds me a lot of the response to 9-11. To assume that it was the religion and not some small group's wacky, arrogant interpretation of it, cannot be fully accurate.

Jim, they were told that the kids were going to a camp in the DR and that they would be able to see the kids when they wanted to and could take them back when they were ready...problem is their camp was a hotel room...hmm that doesn´t sound right..if you aren´t smuggling kids why don´t you ahve a rented building instead of a hotel room?

Added to your observations, the issue that really doesn't sit well with me is that even if allegedly some of these parents had knowingly agreed to this, many of the kids were visually taken aback when they discovered their parents were still alive.

I agree with you. Think of all of the people wanting to adopt. There are many many hoops to jump through and it takes time for a good reason. It would be awful if these kids went from a bad situation to something worse. If we let this group get away with this, what's stopping people from just kidnapping "unwanted" kids anywhere in the world and saying "I was doing God's work, so it's ok."

Oscar you are a jerk. Sounds to me like you have been living in a bubble. We don't want to take over Haiti. We went there to help make a difference. Army is there to help keep order (people looting and fighting), not take over the country. Why would the US want Haiti - name three good assets.

I'd have to agree with Oscar. One assets is cheap or free labor.

I've been married to my wife for 41 years and she has traveled all over the world. I tell her all the time that stuff like this would not happen if these people had been at home working where they belong. We have military troops in 167 different countries. We spend more on our military than most of the world combined. We make 80% of the war goods in the entire world. We need to stay at home and mind our on business and take care of our business.

jack, the State department cannot intervene for you when you break the laws..read the website..they are clear..you have to pay for your own attorney as well..you aren´t provided one by the government ...doesn´t work that way.

I'm so glad that "settersperch" has a such kind heart and outlookon those that can't take care of their own when tradagy strikes. I'm sure that all of your friends and family are very proud of you and your feelings. Lets make all the children and poor suffer since they have some bad apples here and there.

I hope you get an opportunity to serve our country, then you would have the ability to not just talk trash about those you don't like but to kill them as well, in the name of freedom, that you seem to dislike so much.

I would like to take you over my knee and give you a good spanking!

settersperch, do you really believe that the fact our government is providing emergency assistance to Haiti means that all private U.S. citizens have immunity from prosecution for crimes such as kidnapping (or, say robbery, murder or rape)? It may be that these folks told the kids' relatives the truth....we are taking them temporarily to the DR where it is easier to provide them with food, water and shelter and you can reclaim them when all of this is over. Or it may be that they intended to KEEP the kids once they got them over the border. The fact they have told different people different stories about their intent does not speak well of their motives, however. It is entirely correct for the Haitians to investigate (which is all that is happening now) what they were doing.

Teabagger (and in taking this name, I assume you are unaware of the more settled definition of the word), I see. The people in the rest of the world, particularly if their skin is darker than yours, do not deserve your respect. More than that, you don't give a "rats ass" about them. Well guess what, many of your fellow Americans feel the same about you. I don't suppose you can imagine why.

Hmm...a "nation" if it can even be called that, is destroyed by a natural disaster. No authority in place, no food, water, shelter, medical care...and you idiots keep screaming..they had no documents!!! Give me a friggin' break...documents?? Permission?? Who is there to give the documents/permission??? Now personally I don't give a rats a$$ about Haiti..the same way I feel about Somalia...just making a point.

you sir fit right in with the other scum on this earth....

NF...that hurts soooo much. Where is your compassion for me?? Your understanding?? Your tolerance??? Go @!$%# yourself.

I know two of these people personally and they just trying to help children. It is not a cult. Your gut is wrong!

Most religions meet some if not all the definitions of a cult. Including mind control. Currently that is the goal of religious organizations that are promoting the republican vote. They seek to control the lifestyles of everyone in the United States. They don't want you to have freedoms they don't approve of.

The government should take them to trial and prove that they are guilty.

That is truly convincing news that you know them. Who are you?

cs, you know them? So ask them why God told them to take them from their parents that were alive instead of looking for real orphans? Ask them why they disobeyed the law when they were told they were going to be arrested if they did what they were planning...then ask them if they really wanted to help why didn´t they do clean up of the people´s demolished houses and try to rebuild at least a half decent shelter in order to keep the family together...

ALL religions start out in one of two ways....either as a cult or as a splinter group off some religion that started out as a cult. Cult, by definition, is just a new religious group whose teachings vary enough from the mainstream religion of the place to put them at odds with that mainstream. The way the term "cult" is most often used in our culture makes it appear to be a terrible thing, but what most do not understand is that their own churches started out in exactly the same way.

It's people like you that start wars. You and your over-zealous, self-righteous ilk press upon others your beliefs like a plague. These folks are not above the law and should have done this properly and legally if their intentions were that "pure".

Oh, and I'm pretty sure the "Great Commission" didn't mention anything about human trafficking.

I assure you that these people are not servants of God. Perhaps they worship the same intolerant, misleading, split-tongued fallen angel that you do. Bury your head in your book and pull out another misinterpretted quote. I'd love to crush that as well.

How would you feel if "brave Muslims" followed their Lord's command and came over to the US after a natural disaster and took children away illegally because it would take to long to navigate the legal system? Pleeeeease!

It takes no courage to steal children from their parents and sell them to the highest bidder over here, it takes far more courage to accept other people for what they are, pagan or other wise and let them make their own choices, and then to still help them, Jesus would have given them all food and left the children where they are. Maybe have helped the parents get on their feet financially. Religious people can be so self righteous, there are too many cults parading around under the banner of God. Try them in a fair court and let them take what comes just like a Haitian would over here.

Its the Lord's calling, and thier duty to take these children! Look, we are Christians, and republicans...we are wealthy, and know how to make more! With that comes churches....MEGA church's. These are some big places, they need maintanance damnit!! Its our lord's request that we gather and enslave these children!! Those Bibles aint gonna dust themselves you know!!!!

No, I'd say it's more like "these arrogant Christians". They interpret whatever they want to do as the Lord's command (they wear special headsets to tune in, don't ya know?) and think that gives them license to do whatever they choose. I think there have been enough contradictions in their testimony to pretty safely assume they were way out of line - and knew it. And what's the deal with taking children with living parents, no matter how willing they were to give them up, in a situation where there are obviously thousands of real orphans?

It just does not add up. Why would you take children before you even had established the orphanage? It just sesems more likely that the missionaries wanted to eventually bring the children to the USA and work on ridding them of their "voodoo" religion and the "pact they made with the devil" per the teachings of one Pat Robertson.

They will have to stand trial just as we would do them if they tried that here. And, I wonder......with all of the other assistance in Haiti (the Red Cross being one of the best in the world) and all of the other people down there helping, why did *these* people feel themselves "special" enough to take children into another country? Seems very misguided at the least.

Just because these kids were from poor families doesn't justify the taking of their kids. There's got to be more to the story. Showing families living in extreme poverty a picture of a motel in the DR with a swimming pool and tennis courts to make it seem glamorous and to convince the family to give up a child? That is sneaky and screams some sort of ulterior motive.

There was, in fact, a facility that had been leased and staffed for any children who were "rescued." No ulterior motive...a lack of understanding and smarts, yes! Most of those in the group were "signed on" in the two days just prior to arrival in Haiti. The 18 year old asked permission to be out of school for a week to help. Good people, with good intentions, sometimes make mistakes. That is what happened here!

a simple internet search would have told them that they could not remove Haitian children outside of the country to an orphanage. It is easy to establish one inside Haiti..but outside of Haiti in the DR is tabboo why? Because there is a huge trafficking industry of children from Haiti in the DR, they use them for everything from agriculture workers to sex slaves and it is frequently ´orphanages´in the past that exploit them...the president suspended all adoptions except those children already in the system approved weeks ago...and a simple internet search told me these things...an 18 year old might be that naive..but not a 40 year old with an internet business and a 53 year old missions coordinator or a 43 year old pastor..they knew enough to check it out.