Don't bring God into this. The MAJORITY of illegal immigrants come here to live off of our government programs, that are paid for directly from every American citizens tax dollars. Illegal immigrants don't contribute taxes to help pay for social services, they sure do reap the rewards though! Is that something God will be proud of? The term commonly referred to for people who do these things is a leech.

10 million US citizens are out of work right now and legitimately need those government programs but the money is largely being directly funneled to illegal immigrants who TAKE it, and don't give anything back. They are stealing from every citizen in this country.

Nobody has a problem with LEGAL immigration, that's what makes our country unique. But don't come here illegally, take money out of our pockets to feed, clothe, and house you, and expect anything other than hostility and resentment.

You are not a conservative if you want to change the Constitution.

Sorry Brad. In my county last year just jail costs for illegals was $900,000. This does not count healthcare. If you have another suggestion, I would be open. Keeping in mind that America is one of the most compassionate countries in the world......

But with our country going broke at some point we have to ask, how are we going to pay for everything?

hey BRad - are you paying for all those illegals??? I sure as hell am NOT! More taxes from the King?! Hell no!

It's Brad who's brainwashed. Educated by the NEA and passed on without testing, no doubt. The old standard presumed a situation that no longer exists, back in the day before Mexicans began having 'anchor' babies. Born in the USA to a pair of citizens should be the measure for automatic citizenship.

@Brad (#1.1):

Obama and your liberal boyfriends have you brainwashed. Wake up or God will be angry!

When I see these comments and the result on the poll, I understand why this country is going down. You people are trying to destroy the Soul and Hart of this nation that open its arms to your ancestors and from which you are anchor babies. Remember, the frontiers are made by people and the ancestors of those that you hate so much lived in this continent way before '"yours" came (before 1868 also).

A little harsh nevada-brett,

Leave Brad alone and eventually he will get bored from being on his soap box. Especially when he finds out noone is listening. His posts scream anger and that this story hits a personal nerve. He is not backing up anything with hard information, but bringing in God, and calling everyone a racist.

Feel sorry for him, I do. What an aweful world he must live in to have that challenged perspective.

cdahl.... what?????.... you are really grasping..... and have nothing..... to funny.........wow

Brett - I son't think Brad subscribes to Obama - I do, more of less, and I am clearly in favor of sending each and every illegal back (including their children, regardless of where they were born) unless they can prove, with their OWN funding, that they would face torture, death, or some sort of inhumanity upon their return.

I'm tired of paying for law-breaking border-crossing criminals. God knows what they bring with them (drugs, disease, guns, welfare addictions, etc.)

Oh my God. Seriously? How much more greedy could we be? Just make becoming legal be less expensive or free and then the people who want to become legal might have a hope and prayer. Do you know how HARD it is for them? Try to imagine yourself in their shoes. Do some reasearch. And try learning a language without rosetta stone or whatever other stupid program you use. It's not that easy. To do most things here, you have to speak english because we are to lazy to do anything for others. It's not easy and can take an extremely long time. And, do you realize, WE are "anchor babies." OUR ANCESTORS just came and tried to live here. The whole basis of our country is to bring people together and be FREE. "E PLURIBUS UNUM" (which means, "Out of many, one"), LOOK AT THE BACK OF YOUR QUARTERS IT'S RIGHT THERE!!!

This isn't about God and helping humans. It's about sustainability. Unfortunately we as a country can not support the world that is sneaking in illegally and having children we will have to support in unlimitless numbers. There has to be a limit because frankly we don't have that many resources or land.

I believe in God and probably have helped more people than you, so stop throwing stones. The proposed solution isn't perfect and frankly it might be a desperate one, but so far, it's also the right one.

whoislegal:

My ancestors on my mother's side came by boat and registered at Ellis Island (really) in the 1830's. They didn't sneak across a river, cut through barbed wire, and evade patrols in the middle of the night like these criminals.

My ancestors on my father's side were here for the Revolutionary War. One of my great-greats was a sheriff in Tucson, AR before it was a state.

I don't think your comparison of today's Mexican border scramble with the European immigrations of the 16th-19th centuries holds water. Send them home now and leave my tax money alone!

@Geoff

Really? Anyway, if God knows (And yes I am a Christian) what they bring here, why would he let them? So they can better themselves, and if we stop being immature, lazy a-holes then MAYBE we can help them. Think.

ihuntghosts:

Learn a language? Why do they have to learn a language? Every damn road sign, ATM, store sign, etc. is in that ugly language of Spanish - this country speaks English and it should only be English!

Hard for them? Please - so hard that they break the law and come here to suck on our welfare? Go home - if you want the illegals so bad, take them in your home and keep their hands off my tax dollars!

@Geoff

you think they have enough money to have the choice? Things change and are different in other areas. (Sry for late rply, I have a life)

ihuntghosts:

You don't get it - I don't want to help them. I don't think it's our place to have to help them. No offense to you or them, but I think we have enough to do here. We have our own poor people in Appalachia and in inner cities, and on Indian reservations; we don't need to help people who enter this country illegally.

And get off the God thing - it has nothing to do with it. Does being a Christian make you "better"? Does it give you the right to assume I am lazy, immature, cruel or not a Christian? Maybe I'm a hard-working, mature, employer of over 45 legal citizens of this country who is fed up with taking care of illegals.

@Geoff

Idiot. Do you know what you are talking about? Do you know that your tax dollars are paying for other services that you also may never need? And if I do come across someone that needs to be taken in, I will take them in no matter what financial situation I am in. And trust me, right now, it's looking pretty crappy.

Do some reasearch. And try learning a language without rosetta stone or whatever other stupid program you use. It's not that easy.

Pleaseee, seriously? Are you even in the USA? Everything in the this country is bl-lingual. Almost every place has information in at least 2 languages available, if not more. You can't make a phone call without determining which language you want to hear first. I'm a flaming liberal and think it's fine, but don't act like people can't function or are under some other hardship due to a language barrier. We are one of the few countries that bends over backwards to make it easy.

And, do you realize, WE are "anchor babies." OUR ANCESTORS just came and tried to live here. The whole basis of our country is to bring people together and be FREE.

I'll be sure to tell that to my Cherokee great-grandfather and African great-grandmother. Duh. Stop being emotionally and generalizing and make a rationale debate.

Well aware that tax dollars go to things that I may never need - just want them going to people who are here illegally.

Nice Christian values you have there: calling people idiots. Anyway, best of luck to you: about half a million illegals coming to your house for dinner and the rest of their lives. God bless.

Texan, God has a well deserved place in this, he created all of us.

What we need to leave out of the debate are 'facts' that are just plain false. If your from Texas, you should know that the Office of Comptroller has completed the most thorough study to date of the fiscal and economic impact of non-citizens without a valid visa. According to the report, undocumented immigrants pay a NET of $427 million per year more in taxes than they receive in services. We're not paying fo them, they're paying for us. They also add $17 billion per year to the state's GDP, which creates jobs for citizens.

There are a lot more than 10 million Americans out of work right now, but if we start rounding up people who work hard, pay taxes, and love America we are going to see that number shoot up, not down. Not many, if any at all, of the undocumented would choose that status over something legal. The problem is that a LEGAL alternative doesn't exist. We have quotas and waiting lines, when what we really need is a system of work permits and a path to citizenship for some (not necessarily all).

By the way, St. Augustine said that it is not a SIN to say what you believe, even when what you believe is untrue; but it is EVIL, nevertheless.

Will Rogers said something along the lines of: "It ain't so much what we don't know that hurts us, as what we think we DO know that ain't true."

ihuntghosts

I need a place to live with my 8 kids. send me an address. My parents and uncle will come with me but I can help by painting your place with some left over paint. Don't worry I will make sure that all our trucks and cars are parked on the lawn so we don't take up any of your neighbors parking spaces.

@ Geoff

Why don't you want to help them? Do you realize how -please excuse me for using a younger vocabulary- mean that is? AYou can't be kind to ONE person at least? We can't take a few moments of our day, and a few dollars to help? Get over yourself. If you are doing things for the better, it will always turn out fine. If you want to help people here, go for it, but let the ones who are helping elsewhere help them. ANd the only reason I brought up that I am a christian was so the bible-thumpers wouldn't attack. And if you give the illegals a chance, maybe you will find out that some ARE hard working. You NEED TO STOP ASSUMING THINGS! NO ONE IS THE SAME! All ANYONE is doing about this is undoing our ancestors hard work.

Geoff, it's refreshing to read that we (Reps and Dems) can see eye to eye on this pressing issue. Every year that we allow the invasion to continue it becomes that much more difficult to oppose.

By the looks of this Vine poll, combined with other polls, the vast majority of Americans are infuriated with "illegal" immigration. Action needs to be taken now, before it's too late!

BO, once again, is on the wrong side of the American people. Citizens are beginning to rebel.

Wow,

Lot's of hurt and hard feelings here. Time to take the emotion out of the argument. It is about spitting out the facts, keeping it to factual information and dump the name calling.

For me it boils down simply to costs. I don't believe that we can continue to be the social assistance program for the world. As a country we are basically broke and at some point we have to protect those whom we are obligated to first.

the ignorance is evident....

Wonder how most of you would reply if the question was posed differently...

What if these were Italian, Polish, Greek, German babies in the 30's, 40's or 50's...many of those parents didn't come here legally and if they did they were given amnesty.

Our country is a much better country today because of these immigrants...Hispanics especially Mexican have been coming to this country for decades...the reason for our current issues aren't immigrants its our failed economic policies by both parties!!

Okay, Andlifegoeson, I am sorry, but I was refferring to people in real life and not on the internet. I need to meet the person and get to know them in person for a while first, and it takes a while to prepare a place for people to stay. And if you aren't serious, REALLY? Wow.

And to the rest of you, I'm sorry, but life is calling and I have things to do. so, bye.

Geoff, you're being a bit of a hypocrite. If your ancestors got here in the 19th century or before, all they did was show up. There were no quotas. There was no bar to entry whatsoever. And there was no requirement to learn English.

You're not paying for anybody. Immigrants are not eligible for welfare. Get off your high horse, you're no more special than anybody else.

commonsence,

Can you give me the source to your argument? I would be very interested and it may change my perspective, as mine is purely based on costs.

Thank you in advance.

14 million out of work here.

In regards to Brad's comment I believe he meant that we need to be just. Now for all of those people saying that illegal immigrants are "leeches" let me correct you. Illegal immigrants do pay taxes and contribute to the economy of the United States 68% of the blue collar jobs are done by illegal immigrants who work in the construction, restaurnat, housecleaning, farming etc. industry feeding are beloved and loving corporate America. People open your eyes and see these people are not the problem these people are not the ones who payed billions of dollars to AIG, Bank of America, and so many other corporate companies in the stock market who made a stupid gambling move. Our country is not in a deficit becuase of immigrants it is because our taxpayer money went in to the pockets of the wrong people! Now if it is so that immigrants are the problem... Then lets begin getting rid of the problem "Pilgrims" who came from England and took this land from the Native Americans and the Mexican Indigineous People go back! As a Mexican-American I can proudly say this country belongs more to the immigrants than to the Anglo Saxons sitting in Capitol Hill!

Thank you, Commonsense. The big problem is that too many people on this list are repeating what they have heard from others and not acting from personal knowledge. I have known and worked with and taught people from other countries, and I have not known anyone who was a "criminal", "freeloader", or "mooch on our welfare system." The immigrants I associated with (and I did not question their "status") were intelligent, hard-working, very family-oriented, eager to learn and participate, and they had great senses of humor. So I would ask those who post here, "How many "criminals", "freeloaders", and "welfare mooches" do you know personally? On what are you basing your venomous diatribes?

I despise illegal immigration as much as any that posted "No" to this article. But who are you punishing by taking away the citizenship of the children?

First, most illegals are employed, but take advantage of welfare to supplement their low income, punish the employers! Fine them, impose criminal penalties as well. Make it more expensive to hire illegals than legals. Next, no one lives in this country illegally completely off the grid unless they are supported or wealthy, so throw them out! Tighten border controls. Impose stricter controls on benefits. A myriad of other things that can be done to adress the problem, but....

Why punish the children? If a child grows up in the US with parents that are here illegally, under a government that does not deal with the parents or their employers timely and properly, this is entirely out of the child's control. It would be a crime to call that child a criminal, especially when they turn of age to enter the workforce.

Lastly, on language. I believe every individual should strive to be multi-lingual, but the US language is English. I am offended when I land in Miami, re-entering the US, only to be greeted by Spanish in my own country, even though I understand what they are saying. Live in a country, learn the language. Be a citizen of the globe and learn someone else's language as well.

When my wife took her final citizenship interview (and she did everything legal) I was not allowed to accompany her to the interview room (she speaks english perfectly). The couple before us, the husband accompanied his wife for her interview because she did not speak English, he was her interpreter. This I found absurd and offensive, especially since it is a requirement of citizenship to have working knowledge of the english language.

Couldn't agree more. We as a nation should not encourage people to come here illegally by granting citizenship to their kids simply because they are born here. If there parents happen to be here legally at the time of their birth, then the child should be granted citizenship if, they can speak, read and write English. If they do not have a lengthy criminal history and if they are illegal drug free. Their citizenship should be granted on their 18th birthday if the meet the above and they should be on 5 years unsupervised probation in which time their citizenship can be revoked if they commit a serious crime or become a member of a criminal gang.

Under no circumstances should the "anchor baby" be used as an excuse for the parentst to stay here illegally.

i can't believe some of the comments i'm hearing from "Brad" and "Ihuntghosts". Americans are struggling right now to make ends meet and all they care about are people who came here illegally. i say no more anchor babies, we can't take care of the world , nor should we be rewarding illegals with food stamps, free health-care , and housing!!! that is just beyond comprehension!!

Geoff OH - You say your mother's ancestors registered at Ellis Island in the 1830's. Please tell us who they registered with. The immigration center at Ellis Island wasn't created until 1892. Did they also buy the Brooklyn Bridge when they finished their registration?

I am a grandchild of immigrants, and my wife came over here with her family when she was two months old, so our son is also a child of immigrants.

I will always agree that people immigrating over here legally should not only be accepted but also should have the moral weight of all of us backing it up.

The sad thing is that my mother-in-laws siblings have been waiting for over fourty years to come here, and have been told that they need to wait more because of the sever illegal immigration problem we have in this country.

The problem I have is that we as citizens are told that we need to abide by the law, and my wife has been told that if she breaks the law it can effect her green card status (we are taking care of this issue by having her study to become a citizen), but we have people in Washington DC wanting to grant amnesty to people that broke the law coming over here, then broke the law by having stolen identification, and then broke the law again by not paying for their taxes.

I feel that concerning the children of immigrants that are born here should not be granted citizenship unless one of their parents are citizens. Also I think we need to start up a work vista programs so we can track the citizens in this country, make sure that they are paying their taxes, and to make sure that any children born by them will be citizens of the country the parents came from.

I agree with New Generation.

Texan you couldn't have your facts more wrong. But something needs to be done about our illegal employer problem. But once solved will end our illegal immigration problem. The best thing about it as all it will cost us tax payers is to throw a few thousand employers in jail for illegal hiring. I am sure that is all it will take to get the message accross that we will no longer allow employers to exploit our freedoms in this country. That sure will be a heck of a lot less money than trying to prosecute 12 million people for staying in the country illegally. Remember most did not enter this country illegally they are only staying here illegally. What this stuff about secure the border crap. People... that can only lead to one thing. A dismantling of our freedoms. When are we as a people going to grow a pair and stop this country's rise as a millitary State and the stop it's fall from grace as a nation of free peoples.

t benton...would vote for your comment 100 times if I could!

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

You can come here legally from Mexico or any other country by following the laws. When you have a child here under this condition of legal immigration status then the child is also granted legal immigration status. Simple easy.

When you come to this country illegally and break the immigrations laws, when you have a child here, then the child is also here illegally and in violation of current immigration laws.

If you accept that children born in the US are automatically considered citizens regardless of whether they are here illegally or on vacation. What happens when American citizens are overseas and the child is born in lets say Iran. Is the child then considered Iranian and not American. Subject to Iranian laws? Children must retain the legal citizenship of their parents not the country they happen to be when they are born.

The Democrats probably fear this because then Obama's Own Citizen status would be in question again....

Roland Tibbs: that my friend is an excellent quote that sums up all our feelings. Mexicans set themselves up as a seperate entity instead of embracing the United States. That is no longer acceptable, and just in time. No more confrontational immigrants: be a US citizen or go back south.

In order to be a legal citizen of the United States a child has to be born to a parent who has legal jurisdiction in the country. If both or the only parent is not of any jurisdiction IE a legal resident then the child is not a legal American citizen of this country.

Sorry Russ, you are very much mistaken. The fourteenth amendment to the constitution does make US citizenship a birthright to anyone born on US soil. Even a pregnant tourist with no intention of giving birth while here in the US, if the baby is born here, the baby has a birthright for US citizenship, even if the child returns to their home country and never lives here again. As for your comment about Iran, if a US citizen mother's or father's a child born outside of the US, that child is still a US citizen. However, the US and many countries allow dual or multiple citizenships. I personally know someone that was born in the US to an Austrian father and Canadian mother (the mother also has dual citizenship because of a British parent). This child has four nationalities, Austrian, American, Canadian, and British. All legal and she has four passports.

Oh, and immigration to the US is anything but easy these days. I don't condone illegal immigration because of that, but part of our problem with illegals stems from our own hipocracy. We want the cheap labor force for low class jobs that most citizens don't want, then whine when that pay doesn't even provide sustinance, even when their pay is below the federally mandated minimum wage. If we really wanted to stop illegal immigration, we would go after the employers.

When slavery was ended it was a provision extended by our government to be sure that the children of newly free people- black and white- would be recognized and extended the rights of full citizens.

So many legal americans are out of work. Not because they are lazy but because employers are working cheaper labor. I am not racist I have freinds of all race. I also am a employer who cares about the way of life for all the legal Americans and their children. I am having a hard time making it right now and have always worked hard , followed the laws and paid all the taxes I have owed. I will not work illegals just to make a few more dollars. I care to much about what is happening to are country. If You don't think this is a serious problem You are not living in the real world. Our country will end up as other countries if everybody comes here. Wages will be dirt cheap. We will have to live with four or five families just to get by and it will be our generation that will destroy what Americans have built. Our children and their children will not have a chance for a life as we have once lived. Wise up to what is really happening.

When you use the argument " illegals pay taxes they never collect" were do you suppose that tax money comes from? You have 2 choices: they don't pay taxes because they get paid under the table, or....they have false identification and SSI number. If its the latter some poor legal American will get screwed when he\she files for unemployment, gets a tax audit, applies for SSI, etc... So try again with that argument. And with the examples I have just given, remember....you will be guilty until you prove yourself innocent. At your own expense...of course. And just wait for the fun you'll get when someone defaults on a loan using your SSI number.

But yea....the state has extra taxes...so its worth it I guess...

You cannot simply revise he Fourteenth's Citizenship Clause to mean yes, it really was the intent of the Congress to grant citizenship to alien children born on US soil when the same Congress enacted law afterwards that did just the reverse. Try and explain why Congress would pass a Constitutional Amendment that grants citizenship to ANYONE born in the US and then turn around and pass a law that would deny automatic citizenship to aliens? Because you cannot, only leads us back to the to the exact construction of the clause for which it was intended and written to mean.

After thinking about it, let them come into the country.

BUT

The government MUST totally slash liberal social programs that benefit Illegals and Minorities, giving them welfare and free money. The Constitution is going to have to trump unrealistic progressive liberal programs.

After the free rides and hand outs are taken out, then let all the immigrants come here and earn a living themselves like our ancestors did, with no help from anyone else.

AMERICA IS A LAND OF OPPORTUNITY, NOT FREE RIDES

THAT is the issue, remember that.

When I was in the U.S. Military stationed in Japan, my wife gave birth to our now grown daughter. Being born in Japan did not automatically make her a citizen of Japan. She became a citizen of the country of origin of the parents.

When people from foreign countries, (diplomats, people doing business, students, tourist and parents who are in this country illegally) have new additions to their families while in the U.S., and that birth fact makes that child an automatic U.S. citizen..... there is need for intelligent review.

As for people who are in this country illegally...... gambeling with the fate of discovery. Kinda looks like they will get a free pass. Protecting law breakers and not changing the law runs contrary to the reason for laws and their enforcement.

RESOLUTION without REVOLUTION is the eminent delema facing the United States.

Leaving me to wonder why more people don't put their faith and hope in God, instead of man's laws, people and governments, which seem to never get it right ..... no matter how honorable their intentions are.

I was reading the 14th amendment and found that the language of the amendment had to do with the southern states forcing freed slaves having to sign for one year free work contracts before they could become American citizens.

There was a case brought forth in 1898 about a man that was born of immigrants (they were legal immigrants) (the case was United States vs. Wong Kim in Arkinsaw), this child was considered a citizen of the U.S.. The problem I have with this is that nowhere has it ever stated that a child born of some one illegally here is automatically a citizen.

There is a case (Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202 (1982)), but this never dealt with the issue of citizenship but rather if school could charge for eduction of a child (who was an illegal alien) born of parents that were illegal aliens.

By what I have looked up I have seen no support for making the children of illegal aliens citizens, but I have found no cases that have explicitly stated that they are.

By what I have seen I think this will have to go to either the supreme court for clarification or will have to have congress further define this statute. The problem with having congress further define this statute is that I do not know if they will have to have this ratified as an addition to the constitution or if they can clarify this themselves.

The United States is a nation made up of immigrants who have come here seeking opportunity. There is no reason to change the current policy.
All I know is this is out laddish as a defense for a yes vote. When people first came to the states and formed the USA they did not come as immigrants they came as Colonist. The immigrants came later and the children born here being legal even if the parents weren't came, in the 80's from a Kennedy push for an amnesty. The services and funds to these have drained our coffers and is not being replenished by them. But is continuing to be raped from the Americans and their families that put into it and was intended for. But by their families that are not here even from a birthright law. Many Americans in the 80's said this would happen and it has. We need to fix this and enforce our Constitutional laws along with billing Mexico for taking care of its peoples for all these years. Or this country could be on the verge of breaking-up into nation states as many warned in the 80's at the passing of the amnesty laws that lead us to this.

@GEOFF OH: There is no way your ancestors came through Ellis Island in the 1830's...it wasn't opened then. They may have come through NYC, but Ellis Island wasn't opened until the 1892. The following is from the Ellis Island Historical Site, "Prior to 1890, the individual states (rather than the Federal government) regulated immigration into the United States. Castle Garden in the Battery (originally known as Castle Clinton) served as the New York State immigration station from 1855 to 1890 and approximately eight million immigrants, mostly from Northern and Western Europe, passed through its doors"

So, if you're wrong about your ancestors in their arrival, then may be you're wrong about allowing children born in this country to have the same rights as you do.

So, is this a federal or state issue? Therein, I believe, is the real discussion.

No! None of these illegal mothers giving birth to kids in the US should be made legal citizens in the USA. This is a loop-hole for them, and it needs to be stopped immediately.

I am honestly sick of the American tax-dollars supporting all these illegals from food-stamps, housing, medical, schooling, legal aid and such. They need to be sent back to their own country, and America needs to invest in land-mines to place about the boards of the US/Mexico. We need to take care of our own American people first.

Having them come here is destroying our country financially, and they need to go back and overthrow their corrupt government and police and build their own country for the good of their people.

Absolutely NOT !!!

All foreign nationals should be obligated to pass the standard naturalization exams, and that includes their progeny once of age.

NO free ride for any of the illegals, regardless of circumstance

This should have been gotten rid of years ago!

THANK YOU skua44! Finally someone who writes the truth. It was for African Americans!!!

The Fourteenth Amendment codifies the way Americans have looked at citizenship since the birth of the nation. The Declaration of Independence labels the King of England a tyrant in part because he placed unreasonable restrictions on immigration.

To Mr. Geoff OH,

Your explanation don't change much the fact that this country's only original owners were the Indians and the same reason your fathers came to this country in a "boat" is the reason for today's immigrants to come now, walking or whatever way looking for a better place for their families and believe me if your parents love you they do commit the crime of coming to look for a job to feed you. Don't you know that many of those soldiers dying for us right now in Afghanistan and Iraq are illegal by your "standard" but they love this Country the same or more than you when they are willing to dye knowing they are defending the freedom of people like you.

If you read a little futher states must protect the rights under the LAWS. ILLEGALS being illegal do not have these rights.

While it not clear about the intent of the ammendment it is clear that rights of Citizens are protected. Having citizenship by birth is wrong; citizen ship is a privledge not a right. I am proud of my heiretige but more proud to be a citizen of the USA. It isn't the anchore kids that are at fault it is the parents. They should be sent back with the parents period. If you want to take care of them then take out an ad in the paper and take them in.

The Constitution was written by the People for the People and because they already worked for our ancestors now we "the spoiled children" don't think they are good anymore and we want to make our own, right?

Actually this was only one of several reasons for the fourteenth amendment. The primary reason was that citizenship was dealt with under state law prior to the civil war. So, the primary reason was to deal with freed slave citizenship fairly with national law, but was broadened to encompass the definition of citizenship for our nation. That definition does include citizenship as a birthright.

Correct skua44-

You realize that there were plenty of black senators in office as well prior to Wilson. Then came Wilson, who basically kicked them all out of office and segregated everything perhaps started the KKK. If I were a black American at that time I would be very upset. Foot note Wilson was a Democrat. The Northern States the ones who fought against slavery was Conservative Republicans.

My personal thought is that Wilson could not stand to see the once enslaved to be free. He enslaved them again in another way. Through persecution and then fast forward to today's massive entitlement system that looks like a free ride for any and all takers white, black, legal illegal come one come all.

The idea that to just be born here equals citizenship is incorrect, but it is a thought that has been portrayed as the truth for so long that it is a lie that is believed broadly.

Whoislegal,

Don't you know that many of those soldiers dying for us right now in Afghanistan and Iraq are illegal by your "standard"

WRONG!! Foreign nationals must have a "Green Card" to enlist and DoD thoroughly checks personal documentation for veracity, so stolen SSANs will not do either.

Get your facts straight, blueiris. No African-American served in either house of Congress between 1901 and 1928, thus negating your premise of "Wilson...kicked them out of office". I have no real love or admiration for Woodrow Wilson but FYI, the Ku Klux Klan was formed by Confederate Army veterans when Wilson was a boy of ten or eleven and had been suppressed by the Force Acts by the time Wilson was old enough to vote. A later resurgence of the Klan came after Wilson's second term as president.

Whoislegal,

I do not know how you are justify what you are writing. Yes, the original people that came over here on the mayflower did not have a passport or were granted any rights by the inhabitants of this country at the time (Native Americans), the problem you have is that there was no unified nation or any type of national government here. I do not think you can apply this towards the issue we have with illegal aliens coming into this country now because we do have an organized national government that explicitly states they are breaking the law by not going through the proper legal channels to come here.

And the Declaration of Independence was not about immigration or citizenship, it was about taxation without representation and people being tried without due process.

And what does the war in Afghanistan have to do with this discussion or situation, this is a war and thus we do not need to get visa to go there.

Your argument about the constitution and us not wanting it is not worth spending any more time trying to answer. It's nothing but argumentative.

Blue-Iris, a correct and true history lesson. Finally someone who researches before they start throwing out statements.

Blue-iris: read the fourteenth amendment and the definition of jus soli "right of soil". You may not agree with the law of the land, but citizenship in the US has been considered a birthright as a whole for our nation since 1868 and for many states since the founding of their constitutions. It is also common for most countries.

Ya, how in the heck did the amnesty lot of the 80's convince the congress that the citenzenship of freed slaves incluced new immigrant's. /bewildered And how in the heck do they get the funds to give them all these handouts that even citzens don't have access to.

neil you are right about america, but juy solis is not common for most countries.

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868 as one of the Reconstruction Amendments.

Its Citizenship Clause provides a broad definition of citizenship that overruled the decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), which held that blacks could not be citizens of the United States.

Its Due Process Clause prohibits state and local governments from depriving people (individual and corporate) of life, liberty, or property without certain steps being taken. This clause has been used to make most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the states, as well as to recognize substantive rights and procedural rights.

Its Equal Protection Clause requires each state to provide equal protection under the law to all people within its jurisdiction. This clause later became the basis for Brown v. Board of Education (1954), the Supreme Court decision which precipitated the dismantling of racial segregation in the United States.

The amendment also includes a number of clauses dealing with the Confederacy and its officials.

Chunky-Monkey: excellent post. Bravo!

I may be a little late to this page, but it is a fairly hot topic and I just found it.

I'm shocked that it has caused so many suspensions.

How is it so unreasonable to see some opinions of others that differ? There's for and against.

No other Country I know allows "anchor babies" to alow illegal foreign individuals rights of birth citizenship, free schooling etc.

It is not racism when over 12 million estimated unlawful people, who happen to be Central American, are here. If there were 12 million Mafia, or any other law breakers, would you claim racism? There is Italian, Russian, and oriental "Mafia types" so seeking them out would be racism? Do they send remittances in the $Billion$ out of the Country yearly?

Where would you look to find them? In Black churches or the Cajun bayous?

It is not a social injustice to follow the law. AND yes this Country was founded on imigrations. Legal, processed, recorded, lawfull imigrations of people who wished to be American Citizens and contribute to this Country with their talents.

I don't believe you could ask anyone on the planet who would be apposed to a better life for their family. That doesn't justify anarchy and disregard for the law of this Country or the abuse of our imigration law.

Anthony,

It is not racism when over 12 million estimated unlawful people, who happen to be Central American, are here.

I hope I misread you, but are you suggesting that the estimated 12 million undocumented here in the U.S. are all Hispanic/Latino? How about the estimated 50,000 illegal Irishmen, the countless of undocumented Asians that came here as stowaways, the Germans that immigrated here with fraudulent (illegal) documents after WWII, or the untold numbers of Russians that found their way here (smuggled) after the fall of the Soviet Union?

Quite frankly, I find your statement objectionable and short sighted.

Quite frankly, I find your statement objectionable and short sighted.

It's objectionable that that is all you could read because it was the only thing you could object to. The rest of your statements are garbage and illinformed.

If you cannot get your numbers correct don't try to use them

Germans that immigrated here with fraudulent (illegal) documents after WWII,

German immigration took place before WWII and yes there may have been a few who entered with false documents to hide but scarcely an invasion as you portray it. The other were 'war brides' (legal-documented) refugees (legal-documented)

How about the estimated 50,000 illegal Irishmen, the countless of undocumented Asians that came here as stowaways,

Try this on someone else. The Irish came through Ellis Island and intigrated, The boat people came and registered as refugies and were documented by the U.S. government.

estimated 12 million undocumented here in the U.S. are all Hispanic/Latino?

YES! And they are with out any other minor group. This is an estimate of the U.S. Government and not some figure I "dreamed up over a bad piece of beef"

Anthony,

With all due respect:

If you can not get your numbers correct don't try to use them

1. What numbers have I used that are incorrect?

Germans that immigrated here with fraudulent (illegal) documents after WWII,

German immigration took place before WWII and yes there may have been a few who entered with false documents to hide but scarcely an invasion as you portray it. The other were 'war brides' (legal-documented) refugees (legal-documented)

2. How have I "portray[ed]" an "invasion"? And "war brides"?...sounds like some group found a loop hole in the system to becomming U.S. citizens before the "Mexicans" did. But that's acceptable in you perception of events.

How about the estimated 50,000 illegal Irishmen, the countless of undocumented Asians that came here as stowaways,

Try this on someone else. The Irish came through Ellis Island and intigrated, The boat people came and registered as refugies and were documented by the U.S. government.

3. Do your homework and research the estimated number of illegal Irishmen (some former IRA commandos) lurking upon us right here in the U.S.A.

estimated 12 million undocumented here in the U.S. are all Hispanic/Latino?

YES! And they are with out any other minor group. This is an estimate of the U.S. Government and not some figure I "dreamed up over a bad piece of beef"

4. Show me the statistic(s) confirming that ALL 12 million estimated illegals are Hispanics/Latinos.

Other than the aforementioned, what have you say about the illegal Asians, Russians, Africans, etc.? Or do you only interpret: illegal immigrants = "Mexicans" (code word for ALL Hispanics/Latinos)? If you do, then I'd have to say that it is not only objectionable but obtuse, to say the least.

why be racist, who does it help?... Do you think that God will be impressed?

So what about the folks that come here legally, who's first language is Spanish? Are you O.K. with them, or do you live under a rock that tells you Spanish speaking = illegal immigrant?

which race is Illegal?

Not only should we not have to press # for Spanish, but think of the money our public schools would save by not having to print everything in English and Spanish. We are always hearing of how programs are being cut in schools due to lack of funding, yet we are paying for translation and double printing of everything that is being sent home with our students. These costs add up, and the savings would benefit our schools in so many ways. If I went to another country, I certainly would not expect them to provide me with documents in my language, I would learn to speak, read and write theirs.

I think what Geri is saying is this is an english speaking country, if you want to come and live here learn our language. I agree with this.

I dont think it is an issue of racism. I am just tired of my tax dollars helping others who do not pay into the system. I pay $10-$50 for prescriptions with health insurance. Illegal immigrants end up on welfare and pay nothing when they need it. I am a single mother with four kids. I work full time, have a house and a vehicle and making ends meet is tough. Our country cannot continue to go into debt. I dont care what country they immigrate from; black, white, brown or purple for the matter. That isnt the main issue. However, it does cost extra money for companies to have spanish speaking people and to print materials in two languages. Our schools cant leave a child behind so we are in many cases providing free meals and using extra resources to meet the needs of people who cant speak english. Our language in United States is english. Come here the right way, go through the steps, make the effort to learn english before you get here. I dont think it is that much to ask. Have a job, pay taxes and dont burden the rest of the american tax payers. For that matter, I think our entire welfare system needs revamped even for people who are US citizens. People are brought up in the system, to them that is normal. They learn from example and keep repeating the cycle. We need to force those that are able bodied out of the system with realistic process and time line.

Thank you!! Finally someone who has the right mind track as I do!! BUT, this will never happen with the governent we have.

I know a very fine couple who have just been surprised with their third pregnancy. They never planned to have another child and weren't financially prepared for it. So they'll be struggling to pay the bills for their child's birth while illegals flow into the country like lava to take my money to pay for the birth of their children. Time to stop that NOW.

bsbfankaren - I would hate to educate you in any way, but part of the path to citizenship in our country is to learn the English language. (gasp)

Even if someone's first language is Spanish, they will still know how to speak English. Additionally, using English, as opposed to Spanish, will only serve to help the person with their language skills.

It's the people who come here ILLEGALLY that can't speak English, and are the source of resentment.

For those worried about your "tax dollars" let me tell you that a big majority of those illegal immigrants are probably paying for your welfare, because they get taxes deducted from their payroll checks and never file for a tax return to which they would have the right to, but they are afraid because they know they don't have a "legal number" and rather give that money away, "for you". They only want to work and give their kids a better future, the one your ancestors gave to you.

I think what Geri is saying is that, although the Constitution guarantees us the right to freedom of speech, she doesn't care.

janice, the reason your friends will be struggling with bills is because they're having a baby. Babies are expensive, but they're worth it. ALL babies.

Texan: Well said!

whois: Although your argument can be made, it is a losing one. The taxes they pay (and not all pay taxes, by the way, for one reason or another) don't match up to all the social services they use.

commonsense: All "legal" babies. Or, how 'bout we send you the next hospital bill, and the one after that.... It's a shame we are all not rich, huh.

Like I said, Nevada, I value ALL human life.

I thought Brad was suspended for a week, but why was Robert lopez-2112072 suspended for a day? I have never seen this before on this site.

Good for you, "commonsense." But in the real world there are limitations to our actions.

Say, here's an idea for ya, why don't you go to China and petition their one-child policy. And when you get back, please let us Viners know how you faired. We're a curious bunch, ya know.

Whoisillegal,

those illegal immigrants are probably paying for your welfare, because they get taxes deducted from their payroll checks

Illegals don't get social security numbers. If they are having taxes taken out of their paycheck, then they are using a fake number (which makes them a liar) or, more likely, someone else's STOLEN SS# (which makes them a liar AND a thief). You don't really think that's ok do you?

Do you know what someone whose identity has been stolen has to deal with to get their life back? A few years back there was a story in the LA Times about a woman on the east coast who discovered that her ss# was being used 2,000 miles away at a chicken processing plant...by 80 people! Is anyone really supposed to care that none of them filed a tax return? Whatever taxes are paid by these theiving, lying, leeches doesn't even BEGIN to cover what they cost us every year.

They're paying for our welfare? BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAA! Who do you think pays for the welfare their tens of thousands of anchor babies are signed up for from day one? (Hint: People with REAL ss#'s!). Why do you think California is in so much trouble? Illegals and their anchor babies cost us billions of dollars every year!! Giving us a few dollars back is the least they can do!

And What about the millions who are getting paid under the table and pay no taxes at all? They still use the roads and hospitals and schools, etc. that our taxes pay for. They still have their hands out for every freebie and social program they can get. They take much and give NOTHING. It's a huge burden, particularly for the border states. Is that really ok with you?

I spoke to a woman from LULAC (Latino Org)here a couple of years ago and she was telling everyone how the estimated 12 million illegals were honest hardworking folks just like us, That they even pay an estimated 100 million a year into federals taxes that they never get back.... sob... cry.... whine

When I pointed out to her that I would love to pay the same in taxes and it would be OK if I never got any back also. She said why would I want to that??? I told her " Hey 12 million illegals paying 100 million a year in taxes is a just little more then 8 dollars a person. I would love to have to pay only 8 dollars in taxes......PER YEAR

Her response to me "I was a racist...." I guess because I can do math.

whoislegal: the problem is that you and i both know that is not the truth. Most illegals use fake social security numbers so they can get employed and you all should know this: when they fill out the w-4, many claim multiple kids even if they do not have them so that no federal taxes are withdrawn....

Geri I am so with you about the press one thing. However Americans do need to be bilingual don't you think?

Brad-

How is that a racist comment?

beside canada name one country that has a national language of 2

Switzerland has 3 main languages-- Swiss, which is not German, but close, Swiss-German, and Swiss-French. I can't think of the proper names that they use for their languages, but they are different, more than just dialects.

I'm not sure about the others, but there may be some of the Eastern European countries have 2 languages-- Russian and whatever their native tongue may be.

I'm bi-lingual (English-Spanish) and I find it very disturbing when someone comes up to me asking for directions in Spanish; almost demanding that I speak Spanish. But if the person just made a simple attempt to speak English, I would have no conpungtion helping them. My point is that if you're going to another country, especially to live there, it is not only incumbent upon you to learn that language so that you can better assimilate with your new neighbours and new home but it is a gesture of respect.

Insofar as being (at least) bi-lingual, I believe it is necessary for our progression. I may be mistaken but aside from English, the next most common language is Spanish followed by either French or Italian. In either case, Chinese will, in my opinion, be a language that will be offered more in our high schools and universities.

But does anyone know why? Well, much of this country's success is derived from international business. So it would be in our best interest to learn our next competitor's language. Why do you think that more than half of the world speaks English as a second language? Well among other variables, they need to know their business partner's/nemesis language to be competitive.

Aside from that, learning a different language or being bi-lingual is something that enhances our understanding, acceptance, and tolerance of foreign cultures and traditions.

You've got your 'Go Arizona' all wrong! It should be 'GO, GO, GO ARIZONA!!!!!'

assimilate.... now that is funny.... you were joking right?

Oh, really? Ever heard of Little Italy or China Town? Are those places about bastardizing the "local culture" or adapting it?

What gives folks? What is the real reason behind all this animosity toward those who's first language is Spanish?

If they come here to be Americans, their first language should be English.

bsbfankaren - I think you're personalizing something that isn't there. Even in the hostile posts I'm seeing "illegal", not "spanish". Why are you assuming that everyone is refering to spanish speaking people?

you are so right Asian American 2112090.

My wife is Asian, and even though they still practice a lot of their culture, they have grown to enjoy and even love American culture. I find that as people come here the first generation keeps most of their cultural identity, the second generation mix the two cultures together, and the third generation identify themselves as Americans first and their culture second. Personally, I believe this is the way it should be.

what is american culture. i am half mexican my father is white and my mother is mexican my husband is mexican i grew up here with my fathers and his family they are southern . after 32 years im am still trying figure this out. every country has rich culture and belives . i love the united states but do we really have a cultural. were all mixed in to one .

Leena,

I've read many of these posts and I have to tell you that unfourtunately, there are many Vineres that equate illegal immigration with Mexicans (code word for Hispanics/Latinos) without taking into account the other nationalities or races that are also here illegally. Furthermore, I suspect that the national spike in hate crimes against "Mexicans" is a direct result of Arizona's introduction of SB1070 coupled with the sluggish economy. But the "Mexicans did not create this problem. It was Wall Street that decided to take advantage of lower income, less knowledgeable people to make a profit without considering, not only the U.S. economy but, the global economy.

If we're going to asign blame to anyone, at least let's be just and honest about it...and the "Mexicans" are not to blame. Let's face it, the easiest group to blame for our economic ills is the weak, the voiceless, and unrepresented...today it's the "Mexicans" and tomorrow...?

To LEENA that replied to this.....They are most likely referring to Spanish speaking, because I don't see a lot of Russian speaking ILLEGALS coming from Mexico!!!!!!!!

AND, to "Voice of Reason".....you say 'the easiest group to blame for our economic ills is the weak, the voiceless, and unrepresented'. OH PLEEEEAAAASSSSEEEE!!!!!! I work for over 40 years to get Social Security Benefits and your Voiceless and Unrepresented get just as much if not MORE Social Security JUST BY APPLYING for it and they DO NOT have to have worked at ALL. "Voiceless and Unrepresented" my A$$ !!!!!

I was born in one border state (Texas)and raised in another (New Mexico). If there is a so called "drain" it is not a new one, and has been around for decades on end. People have come to the US from Mexico to work, some stay, while other's go back and forth. What we need to do is make it easier for those who want to come here and work, to do so legally then go home, rather then having to make a home here. They would then become tax paying citizen's and the so called "drain" whould therefore be lessoned. But then again, there are the "small business" owners that the Republican leadership loves to bring up, who employ illegal workers, knowing they can treat them anyway they choose, as they have no one to complain to. When are we going to do something about that once and for all?

Why are we as a country suddenly having such a problem with illegal immigration of those who speak Spanish? There absolutely has to be more to this story, and I sure wish someone were willing to dig up the answer!

YOU DO?? REALLY??? i do not think so...there is no way an illegal could get ANYTHING,, from any social services...they pay for their health!!! if they get fired,,, tough luck,,,, no welfare will take them,,, so what are you talking about,,, what you think?? not the reality.. that is why they don't go to the doctor at all sometimes.. no dentist available unless community centers which charge a minimum BUT CHARGE..why dont you better check on your people from puerto rico.. or are you the same as the ones that think that they are illegals too??? so much ignorance...

Very well said, there is no way...an illegal can get anything...they cant'!!! they dont!! Why? the greatest country in the world and they're people wow!! it amazes me again...why is it so easy for people from the middleeast who blow up this country to get legal docs and why is it so hard for people south of the border get working docs...unbelievable!!

It's a issue now due to the state of the economy. If you owned a business and started to lose profits, you would look at your expenses. People are out of work and not spending money which reduces tax dollars. Federal, state and local governments can only adjust expenditures so much before they have to look at expenses in more detail. When they do so, they find issues that may have actually been there for a long time, but are now being realized or have grown to the point that they cant go without a change being made.

sorry to disapoint -my inlaws are mexican american--their family have been here for centuries and they feel the same way--illegal alliens cause problems and take jobs others will work if paid a liveable wage----they have had friends injured and killed by illegals due to uninsured car accidents and thefts--

-come to the country legally and you are welcome no matter what race you are--do not come illegally--

also people who come to this country should be required to learn english--keep your language but do not require everyone to speak yours -if we moved to a non english speaking country we would be required to learn their language to function we should get the same respect as any other country

and stop calling people racist because they beleave people should come to this country legally- you would feel different if you lost your job to illegal aliens so your employer could "save money"

you are paranoid bsbfankaren, you are looking for a problem when the only problem we have is the obvious one, these people are coming into our country illegally, they are sapping resources that are meant for american citizens, they are having anchor babies, and it needs to stop. it is wrong and it needs to stop. this is a no-brainer. it is not about not liking spanish or mexican people, it is nothing to do with liking or disliking a certain race. but ofcourse people are always playing the "race" card to try and make it into something it is not.

I think beannie missed bsbfankaren's point. The top three states with illegal immigrant problems are states with a high population of migrant farm workers. The average pay of a migrant farm worker falls more than 70% below the US minimum wage. I agree 1,000% that we should put an end to illegal immigration, but part of the solution should include labor laws that embrace Mexican nationals performing work in the US. One reason they stay in our country instead of going home to their families is because of the challenges they have crossing the border.

The top two jobs performed by illegal immigrants are agriculture and construction (not skilled construction work). Employers are not penalized, and although our taxes are higher, our grocery bill and housing costs are lower. These jobs are seasonal or temporary and if our labor laws were reformed for tighter controls on benefits COUPLED with more liberal work exchange programs, then rational compromises could be accomplished.

If your argument against illegal immigration is truly based on welfare abuse, you are looking in the wrong place. Although perhaps an overgeneralization, illegal immigrants are hardworking people. Welfare abuse is a much larger problem with Americans that are born here and feel a sense of entitlement to be taken care of by the government. Illegal immigrants do not typically feel that entitlement, even though they will certainly take advantage of programs that are made available to them to supplement their low income.

Oh, and if you are one of the 14 Million Americans out of work, are you willing to pick strawberries in Sacramento Valley in 115 degree temperatures for $5 per hour or less? I am sure there are openings available :)

nsls of course illegals get all sorts of welfare, starting with hundreds a month in foodstamps and healthcare. Then, schools like my kids in Chicago (70% illegal) are required to take them in (free education, free breakfast, free lunch). This is the tip of the iceburg. but the crazy thing is that our own government gives them tips on how to fill out the paperwork to get the most money, and also that we have Mexican consulates in places like Chicago that help illegals get fake documents and take advantage of the US system. The worst is that guys like Daly back that illegal system because it enhances their base.

Thank you denar post 7.6

I have said for awhile now where are the legal immigrants that worked hard to gain citizenship. Why do they not speak up? Well thank you!

neil-2112314

I agree that if there is reform it should include Mexcian Nationals being able to do work in this country. That should be a no brainer. But what many are not aware of is the cost to the employer as well as any American National that wish to to the AGI. jobs being offred. A simple but quick assesment would be something like this. A job is offred to Americans first for picking stawberries. It pay lets for the sake of agrument 8$ an hr. With that 8$ and hr the American must use it not only to support his family with food rent and utilites as well as all amendities needed or enjoyed. But pay for the tranport to and from the job. A Mexican National that takes the job will be given the same pay or at least should be. Most the time they are given less and heres why. The employer pays for the tranportation to bring the worker to him. He also pays for the work visa and all other paperwork needed to get that worker to the jobsite. On top of that he will give the worker a resadence. That resadence must meet government approval for habitat. So for the sake of argument the employer has payed out an average of 10K for papers,documents, licences and the houseing up front. Now the Mexican National lives on the job site and gets a check. With witch they usally get with a few others and pool a % of thier checks. Then the first in line get a care then it continues till they all get a car and they live a very happy and productive life compared to that they came from. On the other hand would the American National taken that job IF he had been offered not only the houseing or a stiphen for houseing for the house they already live in as well as a tranportation stiphen? Or say after solong get the equil payout it cost the employee for the paperwork and ect? How do I know it works like this? I spent most my life roaming and picking to support myself in my travels. The underlying problem in all this is this is that many employers still hire under the table for under min wage and let these Mexican Nationals stay on the property but use food drugs and drink to keep them in virtual slave state. And yes I have work for a few of them too. Some of Bill Clintons Apple growin buds.

Amen! I worked for Social Services in Ca.and I can tell you that as soon as that "anchor child" is born the illegal parent(s) are in line to apply for what ever that child is eligible too. Illegal Immigration costs this country $203,000,000,000.00 (203 Billion) a year! This is just not welfare costs but all expenses connected with illegals. Compare this to any taxes they pay. The issue isn't just anchor children. Millions on millions of illegals are crossing our borders every year... we can't assume that all are here to make a better life for themselves, some are terrorists, others into weapon & drug smuggling, human trafficing & lets not forget about disease. So it's not like the Cream of the Crop that is coming here...just the opposite.

Are you of Native American decent? If not, you should be going too.

There is also plenty of food, water and space in their country. Just because people want immigrants to be here legally and become contributing members of society, does not equate to "racist".

Hey Brad... How about you call your state representative and give them your address so that you can support a few of these people. Sounds like you have plenty of food, water and space for them.

No Brad we don't. We have homeless Americans, my loyalty is with them first.

Well since you brought up the issue of God ...

What does God say?

Does not Romans 11 says we should obey civil authorities and all those who enforce the law?

so now you're labeled a racist if you believe in following the laws of the land. interesting how those who have no justifying argument or shred of logic resort instantly to name calling. boy you sure are convincing , now i realize how wrong i've been. ever take an aptitude test? i bet you would score in the high 90's , you're brilliant ! how do you know whats in one's heart? the answer is, you don't have a clue (just like you're political position, not a clue , no thought ,no logic , no reason)

aa..... Don't even try that angle... grow up.

You do not know what a racist is. Protecting our borders is not racist. It is smart.

I guess mexico is racist, it enforces the borders.

"We are called to be hope for the poor...we are called to feed the hungry at our door"...that's what Jesus teaches. Jesus gave us one commandment..."Love one another as I have loved you".

When my Irish ancestors came to this country in the 1840's no one made it easy for then, either. Humans are known for being inhumane to one another. Sad, but true.

tired..... no... you can just walk right in.... I guess you are speaking about something that you don't know about.

Yea Brad! Why don't you take someone you do not know at all, off the streets, let them move in and use your electricity, water, food, gas, savings etc. and see what you think.......Now, put that into a country's perspective and this is exactly what it is like at a VERY MUCH LARGER scale.

Wow!! really wow...Homeless americans...then why dont you do something for them...as far as im concerned there's thousands of them in your american streets...not working or doing any good to society...anyone remember the incindent in new york when a homeless man layed on the street for 20something mins and died bc no one call an ambulance....
Some people in this world are so rotten and selfish it amazes me...
What aobut the illegals who do want to work who struggle in this country night and day? what aobut those who were brought here when they were children??
What about those who say illegals are taking your benefits...do you know how f-ing hard is for them to get any type of benefits?? no such thing...and yeah the ones who take advantage shouldnt it just makes all the other ones seem bad and im talking aobut the hard workers who by the way some of them pay taxes...it might not be the real deal but at least they pay something.
soupson-1503534

No Brad we don't. We have homeless Americans, my loyalty is with them first.

#11.4 - Mon Aug 2, 2010 5:31 PM EDT

Brad , you really are a grade A moron.

santi.... did that.... and

good.... got ANYTHING that shows you even have a brain?

Who is we Brad. What do you do to support all these people. Do you have a job and give them 50% of your income. Do you own a home and have a family to support as well as supporting the ILLEGALS. Tell me exactly what you do to help these poor people out.

You are clueless.

I say trade Brad for 100 illegals! Send him packing - it would be worth it!

And get off the God thing, Brad - typical pseudo-Christian: you apply it when it works in your favor and ditch it when it doesn't.

Brad, God loves me and I still what them to go back, I even think he wants them to go back where they are wanted. This is not in the bible as the promised land.

Brad, you're never going to win converts if you call people racist (whether they truly are or truly aren't). But you're right about most of the anger and self-righteousness not having a firm basis in fact. People seem to want to have someone to blame for the fact that things aren't going well. Non-citizens are easy to pick on; they can't defend themselves, and anyone else who tries is demonized and shouted down.

Lifegoeson, nobody is asking you to support anybody. Let them live free, work hard, and pay taxes like the rest of us. It isn't a crime to want to do that, and that's exactly what the vast majority of "them" are trying to do.

we have plenty of food, water, and space? what planet are you living on?

brad - I am honored to know you because you realize that every cities and towns food banks are overflowing and that you in turn are a generous contributor of that food. But I digress...

Why has California for years taken water from other areas of the southwest to provide the water needs of the imperial valley and the population of southern California. last I read lake mead was shrinking and the mexican government wanted more water from the Colorado river for their use.

I suppose that one can also argue that we also have plenty of land. Again it would probably require irrigation to grow crops or a large area to support livestock production. If the general population wanted to live in remote areas don't you think we would see a growing population there?

Yes ---- fully agree.

There is a reason only selected countries (south of the border) are wary of this whole immigration thing. They have a failed state. The only way for their society to continue to exist is to let go of their uneducated masses - otherwise, those would revolt and upset the existing socio-economic hierarchy.

Other countries have no qualms if America tightens on immigration because they understand the importance of the rule of law and the concept of sovereignty.

Bad law breeds contempt for the law.

Fran, you're not paying for anybody. It's a myth.

Wow Asian American, check your facts. Mexico has a literacy rate of 91%, far higher than many Asian countries. Also a GDP of $1.5 trillion and a stable federal republic for nearly 100 years.

I agree with commonsense. We aren't paying for them. We are paying for the profits of the employers that hire illegals. They don't provide health insurance, they pay less than minimum wage, so the illegals take the jobs that citizens won't take. Then they get health care from free clinics, get welfare for the US born children, food stamps, and anything else that our system allows.

I think it would be a very interesting study to see how many dollars it would be if illegal immigrant pay was marked up to minimum wage or comparable wage for a citizen and compare that with the cost of the services consumed by illegal immigrants. I would wager that if it truly did cost more to have illegal immigrants than to stop them, then American business would stop them.

And Neil where do you think Mexico gets 95% of it's money? That would be the United States. And Neil does Mexico have to educate illegal emigrants? Provide health care and prescriptions? Food stamps and welfare? Print everything in English? Do they? Do they have 1/12th the cost associated to illegals that we do? And then we have our own troubles that we are responsible for. Oh but we don't have the $$ for that! We have to keep the entitlements alive and well, keep the fraud going.

We need to take care of our children, elderly and retired military. We need to respect where we live. Or we will not be living in a free land much longer.

Wow if Mexico is so much better off and does not have the expenses that we do here in the racist United States why then can't they do ANYTHING for their own people and why do they keep coming here?

Perhaps you need to check your facts.

Its called trying to save our conutry's economy!!!

The rules on birthright are spelled out in the Constitution. Have you no respect for the law?

Immigration fuels economic growth. The number of jobs in an economy is not static.

And some of them and/or their supporters desecrated the American flag and the Arizona flag at a rally in AZ over the weekend. I saw it on video and wanted to be sick (http://BorderStatePatriots.net/3659/). We do not need this TRASH in our country!

Heck, in my city, they (PCUN) already got up on the water tower and placed a big ole mexican flag. Of course it had to be taken down, but it has begun..

AA, you have some really peculiar views. I, too have friends who are legally people. Some are Asian Americans, yet they do not denigrate or villainize entire groups of people; they treat everyone as individuals and with Christian love.

mr or ms "commonsense"...... you haven't got any. people like you really tick me off, you talk like you are so above it all, well then you can use your tax dollars to help those people, but keep your hands off of mine and my fellow americans who feel the same way I do.

Which race is Illegal?

If their here illegally they broke the law. As far as the kids, sorry the calf goes back with the cow.

For crying out loud, BRAD. Why are you such a racist? You must be because everytime someone posts something on here about Illiegals you assume they are talking about a race of people. They are talking about the ACTION that person takes by coming here illegally! Not the race of the person doing it. You have the type of attitude that causes most of the racial problems, it's called reverse racism. Rather than looking at a person's actions without race, which is what everyone is supposed to do you just automatically claim anyone not giving them (or you) what ever they want must be racist. God would not approve.

Really? Are you Alex a Native Indian, otherwise you go too

whoislegal:

If they are here legally, they can stay. It's the illegals that gotta go. Stop with the Native American argument, bonehead. They migrated here, too. It's a matter of law - those who are here illegally, broke the law and should have to leave. Real simple - even for you.

Please explain how you ideas of right and wrong have anything to do with the exploration and building of this country goiing back even one year, much less 400 + years ago??? Were you there?? And before you chomp at the bits about slavery, reparations must be paid first to the families of the Union soldiers who died by the thousands to "free" slaves. (even though slavery was the very last reason the war was fought, if they still taught actual history in school instead of what people want to hear)Economics (yes, money, was the first and foremost reason the Civil War was fought. Slavery was already too expensive then. Also, your wonderful, green county Brazil imported more slaves than any other country in the world and the Portuguese trasported more slaves on ships than any other county in the world.

whoislegal "native americans" were conquering tribes who raped, murdered and slaved. They killed anyone they came up against, until they came up against someone stronger. Quit the lovefest and get back to reality.

You need to go back and learn about the history of Native Americans again! The biggest honor was to count coup on your enemy, which meant touching him and not killing him. Native Americans only killed when their people or livelyhood was threatened. You have been watching way too many hollywood movies! (Chippewa and proud of it)

Susan, you need to stop watching tv, lol. You can read many, many first hand NATIVE accounts of these activities. It was their way of life. To say otherwise is to make them...inhuman.

wow way to use the child as an item.

You did not present facts, you presented your conjecture ("I'm sure....."). This country was indeed built by legal immigrants. Those illegal aliens you are actually speaking about who work as cheap labor only do so because they are here illegally and are in hiding; once they're given amnesty they will join the rest of the illegal aliens demanding their rights and equal pay - which is the way it should be - but only when they enter the country legally through the existing immigration system.

the way it should be is that america should stop sending business to other countries thats the main reason why this country is falling apart its not because of the immigrants coming and taking jobs from us. they work the kind of jobs other americans won't do. and why not demand equal pay would'nt you

who is on welfare, recieves money from govntment to pay rent and buy food im sure its not latinos..

It's young white women according the government, but what's the point besides making a racist statement with no facts to back it up? Because if you're saying it's okay to discriminate if people are criminals, that still includes every illegal person...

FYI-- Welfare numbers, since you went there.

Race and Hispanic Origin

White
216,399

White, not Hispanic
187,249

Black
33,661

Asian or Pacific Islander
11,016

Hispanic
31,934

Not Hispanic
232,621

Age

Under 18 Years
69,971

18 to 64 Years
165,299

65 Years and Over
29,285

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/brief.html

yes african americans are easily the biggest victims of illegal immigrants.

Leena..... since Blacks and Hispanics make up 10 and 12% of the U.S. population. Move the comma point over to the right one column making

Blacks 336, and Hispanics 319, if you want to compare them accurately to the whites in proportion to the numbers.

The laws back in 1900s were different. None of those were illegals by definition.

These are still a number of legal migrants. We are not shutting the door of opportunity for those.

We are a nation of laws - this is what makes America different from these other 3rd world (failed) states that these migrants are coming from.

Yes, you are right. We are a notion of laws. Like the one that says walking down Boston Commons with a beard is illegal...

Dear Chaparra,

You are obviously biased. However you are correct that many U.S. citizens have parents or grandparents that immigrated to the U.S. legally. If all of the illegal aliens were deported today, it would eliminate our unemployment problem immediately since (most) Americans wanting to support themselves and/or their families would certainly perform the jobs vacated by illegals. Can I buy you a one-way ticket out of the country?

Think about what happened and what is happening now. The people in the past came to this country and registered through may points like Elis Island, do you know of such places. They got jobs, learned the language and become citizens. They didn't drain the country of funds since most giveaways didn't exist, like social security, medicade, food stamps, aid to dependant children, ....... What else do you want to know about sending everyone back.

Get a job and support as many illegals as you want, I just don't want to do it. I don't want to support Octomon either. She gets over $100,000 in state and federal support because of all her kids.

I don't think anyone said "immigrants have to go back", they said "illegals have to go back". H U G E difference. Diversity is wonderful, criminality is not.

TJC-Ex-NewYorker : You honestly believe that unemployed Americans will jump at the chance to take jobs as migrant farm workers, paid less than the federally mandated minimum wage, with no benefits? Or unskilled construction worker, also very low pay and temporary job with no benefits. Oh, and don't forget that the earner will have to live apart from his family in a communal housing arrangement and send money home. No, citizens don't take those jobs because unemployment pays higher, which is a benefit the illegals don't get.

I don't condone illegal immigration, but it's a complex problem that the illegal individual is less responsible for than our system and the employers that are the root of the problem. We should make it more expensive to hire an illegal than to hire a legal worker through fines, tax levies, and criminal penalties.

I have always wondered why our Government did nothing about people entering our country illegally.

Clearly there are many reasons or were many reasons.

So this debate is a long time coming.

Yes those here illegally need to go back from where they came. We have a perfect detention center for processing in Illinois. How handy. And here I thought that was for legal Americans who did not buy Health Care from Obama..

for some reason there are some who don't seem to understand the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL. It's not about race but how people enter the US. crawling under a fence, trespassing on people's property and using other SS# is not LEGAL it is breaking the LAW. Immigrants who have gone through the right channels to get here and Illegals are two different things. My ancestors were immigrants the followed the law to become citizens of this great country.

bean town guy - nice one, just shows that some laws need to be deleted or changed.

OUR country is BETTER than others.... no?????????... try again

Other countries have nixed the concept of citizenship by birth place ... most recently, Australia (90s).

Having the concept of citizenship by birth place does not make America great. In fact, it only shows how anachronistic America is ... no other 1st world nation has this.

Liberals and progressives are all about adopting European norms... well look at Europe. They have nixed that concept too.

Brad your arguments need work. Name one country that is better. I would also have to ask why you are not living there. If you are living there why do you care what we do?

The greatness of a country is not measured in the quantum of history we choose to suit our purpose but by all of history to date.

No, Mr. Jabba The Elf, Brad is only Human a characteristic that not too many share.

Canada repealed that part of their law not too long ago. One thing is for sure you do not want to be in a country illegally say like Canada or Mexico. The consequences are pretty tough!!

No free ride there!!

good thing my German father struggled to learn english and become a citizen before my brothers and sisters were born.