Agreed

It is almost like the county is charging their own fire "insurance". What a crock! They are public servants, there to protect the safety and welfare of the population---that's what tax payer money is going towards. If it is absolutely needed, I agree, do a penalty fine.

amen!

Totally agree. I hope that they have many sleepless nights over this one. I hope that they remember what goes around will come around. Wouldn't want to be them.

I agree. Suppose their were children inside or disabled people, what than?

It's interesting that the Mayors website is "currently down". He probably took it down to avoid the rest of the country coming down on him. And the Fire Dept website is also not allowing emails. Real nice people down there. The website states "Won't you come and stay for awhile?"

This was a service, a contract for pay, you pay 75 dollars and for a year I will protect your house from fire. If you do not pay I will not risk my life (which is worth something)or my equipment(which is also worth something) for nothing.

Should take the mayors and firefighters jobs and homes away kick them to the curb they are a disgrace. I hope the bad Karma comes back to all of them 1,000,000,000 fold. This was heartless to sit and watch bet they were laughing at the guy as well sick pos. If the man pays his taxes to the government and city they should do the job they are trained for. Even though he didnt pay $75 this is their job to help people wonder if their ambulance services follow this rule as well.

Look up the history of fire houses and how they started up. It was a paid contract for fire protection, You pay, they protect. No pay, no work.

Their whole system was screwed up. Instead of having a flat yearly rate that not everyone would be able to pay, they should have a mandatory tax based on income. If you don't make much money, you don't have to pay much. If you make lots of money, you pay more. That way everyone pays according to their means and everyone gets the same service. I guess that's too 'socialist' for America and we'd rather have a private contractor charge a price that's too much for some of us to pay so that we can shove our principles of 'enterprise' down everyone's throat.
Not only that, but basic humanity dictates that if your fellow man's house is burning down, you put your qualms aside and do something to help them. I understand that they don't want to undermine their funding, but maybe they should change the whole system and not run the risk of having this happen again.

The man pays property, sale and income taxes. We're all told these taxes are required to cover things like emergency services, roads, government expenses, etc.

So, why should the citizens now have to pay 'contract' fees for a service that is supposed to be covered by our taxes??

Tell you what... eliminate the property, sales, and income tax and I'll gladly pay $75 for fire protection. But, I shouldn't have to pay both!!!

Taxes don't cover every rural area, these are probably poor areas, you 'd have to tax everyone more to cover all of the area. So they have FOR 20 YEARS had a policy that if you live outside the city limits you need to pay. $75 is not that much for a year's worth of fire protection.

Priorities!

There is a "Duty to Act" for public servants paid or volunteer. Issues of public safety include property and life/limb

I think it's a sad day when someone doesn't pay a fee that they know about and expects compassion from others. Good thing he remembered to pay his homeowners insurance otherwise he'd have nothing at all. The $75 is just that, insurance. You KNOW the cost of a fire is well over that. AND what about the son burning garbage?? What the heck is that all about?? Couldn't pay his garbage removal fee either?? Have to burn it??

Feel free to let the S. Fulton fire dept. know how you feel

731.479.0213

Tennessee collected a whopping $7.8 Billion in various taxes in 2002!

An average homeowner pays around $794 annually as Tennessee property taxes for having a home worth $114,000.

This is more than enough money to cover emergency services for all homes that have a paved road.

Social services like public libraries, public schools, and fire and police support are primarily funded by the collected Tennessee property taxes.

So, why doesn't the fire department have enough funds?? Because the biggest bulk of these funds is channeled to the education sectors or the public schools.

Socialism at it's best. High taxes, and then watch it vanish as it gets sucked dry by the useless education system again and again., so that there isn't enough for basic emergency services.

Oh, and none of these numbers take into account the Federal income taxes collected from the citizens of Tennessee!!

http://www.city-data.com/states/Tennessee-Taxation.html

http://www.articlesbase.com/taxes-articles/tennessee-property-taxes-some-interesting-tips-for-tennessee-residents--708630.html

@ raven. Yes, fire fighting services used to be a private "pay for" service, but the reason they moved to the public domain was because that a fire at ONE house, almost always moved to another, then another, and so on until the entire city would be engulfed in flames. Rather than sitting around deciding who paid and deserves to be saved versus who hadn't, it was considered in the interest of the common good that just all fires of that nature be put out...

Screw it. If people want this sort of system, then let them have it... They'll change their minds about those tax paid services soon enough.

Why don't they have Volunteer firefighting services? My husband is a Deputy Sheriff and is also a Volunteer firefighter. He does not get paid for it. He helps people for free. That city makes me sick. I hope their houses burn to the ground and no one helps them.

Paid Heros? More like mercenaries.

Agreed. I never thought I'd see the day when I actually thought something bad about a firefighter.

All decisions (good or bad) have consequences. If you don’t pay for fire service in a low tax zone with a privatized fire department don’t expect fire service. The firefighters were 100% correct in allowing this house to burn down. If these firefighters would have been injured fighting this uninsured house they would be denied insurance from their insurer. This is what happens when important services such as the fire department are privatized as most Tea Partiers/Republicans prefer them to be. Hopefully the people(voters) of this town will change their minds about important tax paid services.

This is bunk, guarantee the politicians in this town have bloated salaries, as always. Their is no excuse for these services not to be apart of the property taxes, sales taxes and business taxes, tickets and citations, local municipalities use as revenue. Politicians should have to take a pay cut before they are allowed stupid actions as such, if it can't be done after a pay cut then look at other options. I have never lived in a town or city that has a Fire FEE that if you don't pay they will let you burn and die, america is not about that in my mind.

The entire situation is an absolute disgrace. The man offered to pay their precious $75.00 fee on the spot, but they told him it was too late. Inexcusable! It makes me sick to my stomach.

I still hold firefighters in high esteem, the fire department in this story excluded, of course.

Tell your democrat friends that control the taxpayers money ($12.2 billion for 2009), to reduce the spending for useless services like education, and raise it for emergency services so that there will be more government firehouses, and no need for private firehouses.

By the way, how many homes have been saved by these private firehouses? If they didn't open up in the neighborhood in the first place, then all homes would burn to the ground since there is not enough government firehouse coverage.

Since they are a private contractor, they would lose a court battle to recover money for putting out the man's house without a signed contract. As the Chief said, if they would have put the fire out, then nobody would pay the yearly $75 except when their house caught on fire. Then there wouldn't be enough money to keep the firehouse open at all.

It's not greed... it's called hiring firefighters and having enough money to provide them a regular paycheck, since the socialist system of progressive taxation is clearly not working!

Want to get rid of the private firehouses... then stop wasting the tax dollars that are stolen from us in the first place, and spend it for services that we really need!!

I'm simply amazed at the idiocy and lack of knowledge some who have posted comments actually have. so let me get this correct before I go hurl, because I lost my job and can't pay a $75.00 fee your going to let my house burn down if it catches fire and you feel you have no liability as a HUMAN BEING to Help neighbors in need. It is obvious there were some lessons lost in your upbringing. Everything to you seems to be about the Almighty Dollar and nothing is about being Human anymore. What happened to Caring and Helping each other through the hard times? My Heart goes out to those that feel this way because to be honest, you are the ones that need help. If the price of someone's life is only $75.00 then we all deserve what is coming in the future and what we are getting now. For the family that lost everything over this stupidity, Get an Attorney and Destroy them. They have earned that by their actions and lack of actions. I have never been one to start a fight but it's high time you finished this one. There are honest people out there that will see this Extortion for What it is and justice will be served. This Fire department acted just like a Racketeer does. If this were anyone off the street that did this they would be charged for Extortion by Police but because it is a supposed Fire Department they are exempt? I was always taught no one was above the law. Exactly what is different between this and the local bully that collects Protection fees from store owners? The answer is nothing. Just because it has gone on for 20 years doesn't mean it is right for it to go on at all or that you have to accept it. Time for the Governor to step up or get booted.

Firefighters aren't "sworn to protect" anyone. That's the police. Firefighters are paid to put out fires. When they don't get paid they shouldn't have to put out the fires, if there isn't a human life on the line. If you don't pay for a phone, you don't get phone service. You don't pay for health insurance, you don't get the assistance paying medical bills. He knew there was a fee in his area and he chose NOT to pay it. Deliberately. Why should he be the only person in town not paying the fire department?

This guy decided to save a few bucks by not paying his bill and he paid the price for it. His greed is what killed his pets, not the fire department.

Again this is a good example of what should be a government service being privatized. Fire protection for money does not sit well for most of us, but that's exactly what happens when we have so many haters despising government. Do you really want a world where you get only what you're willing to pay for? Better think again.

As for this particular case, it is a shame, but the man knew what the situation was and, (here comes that "personal responsibility" thingy so beloved by the right) he did not act to protect his own home by paying a very modest fee.

In response to 1.14- Many rural communities don't have a garbage service that comes out to their place once a week. Burning garbage is common.

Don't keep slamming the guy. I'm sure he's had enough.

This is why we just shouldn't HAVE 'public servants'. You get what you pay for - simple. No it's not pretty or nice, but we all suffer the consequences of our choices.

After 20-30 years, he was completely aware of the fee he did not pay. This man made two informed choices:

1.) He chose to live outside the metropolitan area covered by the city services

2.) He chose not to receive services the city extended to those who lived outside its limits by not participating in the "pool.

I think that chief must have been speaking from experience with those local residents when he said no one would pay until thier house caught on fire if they did not enforce the pre-pay rule.

@JJCOM.

Guess you're missing the point.

1.) The state of Tennessee collected $12.2 BILLION dollars in taxes, but because the bulk of that money goes to education spending, there is not enough left over for government funded firehouses. Blame the socialist dems for that, not the Right.

2.) Quasi-privately funded firehouses open-up for business to provide fire protection, where otherwise there wouldn't be any protection (because of the wasteful spending). These firehouses are funded (wages, trucks, fuel, water, equipment) by private payments from residents in their coverage area. Without these regular payments, there would be no firehouse.

3.) There are a couple of problems with putting out this man's house fire.
(a) It would set an example to everyone else that you don't have to pay the $75 yearly insurance fee, then everyone would stop paying.
(b) This man doesn't have the money to repay the firehouse for the costs of stopping the fire.
(c) since there is not a prexisting signed contract between the firehouse and the man, then the firehouse would be unlikely to prevail in civil suit against the homeowner. In other words, the court would likely rule that the firehouse acted in a 'volunteer' capacity. Again, this would contribute to everyone realizing they could stop paying the yearly fee.
(d) Again, since there is no signed contract, then this firehouse could very easily be exposed to a lawsuit for water damage to this man's property, or failing to properly put the fire out, or some other damage they might have contributed to by entering his property. Blame the lawsuit happy lawyers for that one (John Edwards, etc)

It will be impossible for the man to sue the firehouse for failing to act. Since he was previously paying for the service, then he failed to continue to pay, then he knew of the danger. If he has the right to sue anyone, then it would be the government for collecting property and sales taxes, and then failing to provide adequate emergency services in the first place.

This is a horrible tragedy that could have been taken care of properly. That family lost everything due to a cities greed and callus rules. I have never in my life heard of paying a fee for a rescue service, I thought that is why we all pay our taxes. Things happen and I don't think that people should have to pay for such things in an emergency situation, especially when lives are in danger. Now I could see if it was a prank or something that they pay fees for unneeded services but this is pure intentional cruelty. The man offered to pay what ever needed to be paid and they still let his home and pets burn. I think that the county should cover the rest of the cost of his losses that his insurance wont cover. All of that loss over a stupid $75 dollar fee, its a shame...

As a firefighter you are not sworn to help anyone. If there was a danger to human life they would have attempted a rescue. This fire department is a town fire department, meaning they do not recieve any taxes from this individual since he does not live in the town. Why should he get to use it for free. Wouldn't you be pissed if the home you were paying for, your neighbor got to live into for free?

When you move out on your own, you'll find that compassion doesn't pay the bills...but it's not about paying the bills it's about providing services and building a society that provides robust quality of life.

To be effective, a fire department must have 7/24/365 human resource coverage backed by extensive training costs (you don't practice CPR in actual emergencies and you don't practice coordinated activities while in a blaze), significant technological outlay and overhead, and vary high capital equipment costs. The cost of running a fire department divided by the actual number of fires is well in excess of $1 million (varies greatly by geography but the minimum cost to operate a rural, volunteer fire department is over $1M). On top of all major costs listed above, it costs approximately $5,000 to train and equip each volunteer firefighter.

So the bill would be in excess of $1 million. Do you really think that the fire department would collect $1M? Their inability to collect doesn't lessen the cost so then the next person would have to pay $2M...or there will not be a fire department. What do we do when the second person doesn't have $2M???

Your "compassion" would leave us all unprotected...your "compassion" leads to a complete breakdown of society. Please don't have any compassion on me.

Most small, rural communities have VOLUNTEER FDs. Not everywhere is big enough to support full-time fire departments. Therefore our taxes do not cover the cost of a fire department, and it costs to maintain, even a volunteer force. My county has less than 5,000 residents and has the same policy. It is very clear if you don't pay your fire dues, there is NO fire coverage. The FD will show up to keep the fire from spreading, but there is NO pay on demand. Some residents choose to gamble and not pay the bill and hope they will never need the service. The FD has available several places to pay your bill, ie. post office, the banks, insurance offices, and there is an option to pay when you pay your property taxes. And some just won't pay. I empathize with the gentleman, but he gambled and lost.

Your "compassion" would leave us all unprotected...your "compassion" leads to a complete breakdown of society. Please don't have any compassion on me.

Oh. my. [divine entity].
I think I love you.

This also comes down to the father and his commitment to his family. If there is a service that you pay $75 a year for to protect your house, posessions, family, anything, in the event of a fire and you don't pay.. it all falls on you should anything happen.

The service was offered, he didn't pay so he should not receive the service. He was outside of the county so he doesn't pay county taxes, thus the need for the fee.

Morally yeah the firefighters should have helped, am I going to put that weight on their shoulders.. hell no. The service was there, he didn't pay. As I stated before, its his duty as a father, husband, protector to do everything he can to ensure everything is taken care of. The weight of the world is now on his shoulders and its his fault.

You must be a Democrat!!! I guess you agree with, "Pass the bill, we'll read it later." People need to be accountable for their actions or Do you need the government to control your money for you. I guess you love your work so much, that you don't need a paycheck.

The unfortunate misconception is that fire services are covered by your taxes. Unless there is a very specific tax for it, they are generally NOT covered.

This situation stinks, but let me tell you this - he knew he had to pay $75, and he didn't.

It costs, in my suburban town, on the average of $1500 - $2000 to roll a truck with a full VOLUNTEER crew. Even for a false alarm. We get on average $20,000 a year from municipal sources, and response to solicitations is LESS THAN 10% of the residents, businesses, everyone. So who pays the difference?

Fire trucks are anywhere from $350,000 to $1,500,000. They are not cheap, and we don't get free diesel, we don't get free insurance, nothing. We are a non-profit organization, and that doesn't buy us much.

To head the questions off at the pass:

1) There is no state money - one of the first things cut in a bad economy is ancillary services (and unfortunately, we're considered ancillary)

2) There is no federal money - see #1.

3) In return for the safety provided to a homeowner, they asked for $75 - and more importantly if he knew and did not pay, how you you allow services to be rendered?

4) No, we can't charge for filling pools or pumping basements.

As an 8 year volunteer myself, I appreciate that it is a catastrophic loss, but the expectation is for me (or any other firefighter) to risk my life every time the horn blows. Especially in a fully involved building fire like this, you cry "save his house" but what about my family? Are you saying that I should get hurt/killed/etc for someone who did not have the common decency to help in return knowing he was supposed to? He decided it was not worth the $75, and he took that risk. His lack of caring to help the fire company does not mean he gets free services he knows he has to pay for.

My station makes ends meet for BASIC SUPPLIES LIKE FUEL AND ELECTRICITY through fund raisers and solicitations. We participate in every single community function, parade, home-coming event, church event, the works out of our own pockets. And even then we don't get much more than a handshake.

Before you are so willing to sacrifice live human being to protect stuff, know the facts! Then, when your self-righteousness has managed to win over common sense, go read this: http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/home.php. My station has ended up on this list.

All that said, however, despite years of lack of appreciation by the types of people who seem to make up the bulk of the people on this list, I will still run when the whistle blows. I will still risk my life for free to save your stuff. And when you are done yelling about how we should have been able to put it out in 10 seconds through Divine Intervention (because God loves firemen, right?) and how we didn't run fast enough (BTW: we can't do anything until we have water in the hoses an a safety protocol in place in case we are in danger), I will hopefully go back home to my family.

Sorry, you have hit a nerve - but here is the sign that has always hung in any firehouse I have been a member of that pretty much explains WHY we do what we do - yes, usually for free:

When I am called to duty, God
whenever flames may rage,
Give me the strength to save some life
Whatever be its age.

Help me to embrace a little child
Before it’s too late,
Or some older person
from the horror of that fate.

Enable me to be alert
And hear the weakest shout,
And quickly and efficiently
to put the fire out.

I want to fill my calling
and give the best in me,
To guard my neighbor
And protect his property.

And if according to Your will
I have to lose my life,
Please bless with Your protecting hand
My children and my wife

Is this what protesters of big government call “getting the government of my business and my pocketbook”? But this is not big government is it? It’s local politics, and the leadership has voted to expand the fire taxes to other counties in Tennessee. I am assuming that everyone in this Tennessee area is gainfully employed or self-employed, and can afford to pay their fair share of taxes.

Voters in this Tennessee town voted these decision makers in office, and they are the only ones who can vote them out. They are the only ones who demand that this nonsense stops immediately. Otherwise, some very serious consequences will be suffered later.

The gentleman’s whose house burned down said he could not get his dogs out of the house, and that’s where they died. What if a relative had been trapped in the fire! Would the so-called firemen stood by and let them die? After all, it wasn’t their fault that someone died. The man should have paid his fire taxes.

My God!Is this the new America?

Actually, the guy let himself lose everything by failing to pay the subscription. If you fail to pay your insurance premiums, the insurance companies don't cover your house, car, etc. either. This guy thought he would save himself a few bucks and put his place at risk. I guess he lost that gamble, didn't he?

What is The United States coming to be? As a past firefighter I could never allow a home to burn nor an animal. We need to get back to caring for fellow citizens means more than the money. We have lost the meaning of honor, respect, protect and care for one another. Greed is what is running the United States and it will bury all of us if we don't stand up and care for one another. The me generation needs to take a hike!!! It should have been called the greedy generation. Money never comes before life whether human, animal or property. One shelter is just as important as food for suvivual. Many folks have lost the meaning of our great country and founding fathers.

I wonder what would have happen had that been a relative of the Fire Chief's or Mayor’s home. Would he have allowed this to happen? More than likely anyone that voted no he shouldn't have received help has not thought to themselves "what if that was my parent's home" Would you still think the fire dept was justified in not assisting your family when your mother has lost her animals & possessions? Doubtful!!!

I have heard of fees to supplement a department, but since when is a local fire district not supported by the local tax base?

Don't expect any future support from your citizens down there, you heartless bastards.

Mr. C was not in a fire district! His taxes didn't not include support for the city fire department because he lived outside the city in an unincorporated area. He only pays (we can guess) county property taxes not city taxes.

Thank you Bob P for your post. I was in the middle of three very nasty fires here in CA, one being the Station Fire. At least two firefighters lost their own homes while trying to save complete stranger's ones. I refer to fire fighters as angels in yellow coats for the job they did. If it was made clear to this man that he would not be covered without paying the fee, he was aware of the consequences. When I initially heard about this, it was reported that they responded, but just hung back and watched the house burn. If this indeed was the case, that is just adding insult to injury and wrong on so many levels.

Makes you wonder how they morally could just sit by and do nothing. I would not have been able to do that if I had been in the firefighters positions. Someone could have died and for what? $75.00

Doesn't sound like a community I would ever consider living in!

Yeah. Right on man! Just last week I had a car accident. It was my fault, I didn't have any insurance, and the cars were totaled. I went to State Farm, Geico, and Progressive but none of them would pay for it (I even offered to pay for a month's coverage as well as the deductible!).

What kind of country have we become when other people aren't required by law to pay for your mistakes?

Yeesh.

I have three dogs, if they were trapped in my house as it was burning, I would never allow a fireman to risk his life for any of them. To me, a person with a family and who is a heroe is far more valuable than the life of my pets. He knew he had to pay a fee for fire service but made the conscious choice not to, take responsibility for your actions son. He had the chance to save his house and his property but he didn't when he wouldn't pay the fee. How much do you fine the guy when a fireman runs in to save his precious stuff and dies? Take responsibility from the beginning and pay the $75. I pay for my fire service via city taxes, he lives outside the limits so he doesn't pay city taxes, no payment no service just like everything else in the world. But I do hope that $75 dollars he saved helps him with the lawsuits he will have on his hands when his neighbors sue him over the damages HIS NEGLIGENCE caused to their homes.

I know a fella who gives small bribes to the police in order to win their support. He tells me that is how it is done in his country, Iraq. I think he pays the firemen, too. It's liquor that Bozo likes.

I understand both sides of this issue, and I have to explain and offer the best solution possible:

For every tax dollar that you pay, there are certain percentages that go for all the benefits we recieve as taxpayes. Much of that money goes to social welfare programs, Social Security, Medicare, military, etc.. (Some benefits we disagree with, some we will never see...) The basic security that we think of as our right have major costs. Running a fire department, even voluntarily, costs a lot. There are management fees, engines, water, rent, insurance, etc.. that must be met. The people in the city are covered by taxes, but in order to stay afloat - and yes, even safety needs to stay afloat because we ARE NOT a socialist society, they need to charge a supplemental fee for people that don't pay the tax. It makes perfect sense.

That being said, there was an emergency, and a families home was destroyed, which will just cost the taxpayers more money in the long run. If people are entitled to pay th $75 during a fire, obviously the fire department won't be able to cover costs. Here comes my solution:

The $75 does not cover the fire departments expenses alone. A pool of all the covered homeowners $75 add up to cover the bills. Therefore, if one of them has a fire, they are paying for the service. If one is not covered, they should be billed for all the relevant costs (much more than $75) to put out the fire. They should be billed for allocated insurance, rent, salaries, etc.. for the respondents, plus a large late fee for not having paid before the deadline for the year. The property that is saved (in this case, the house) should be leaned to the fire department until full payment is made. The payment should be significant enough to deter people from avoiding the annual fee. This way, people like the jerk that hardly have the education to read out the name on his check book can get coverage, and be lazy bums that somehow garnish the sympathy of the American public.

Safety costs money. There is no "magical money man" called the government that can just sprinkle fairy powder over our financial woes and make them begone. We shouldn't increase taxes on the people that pay their dues in a timely matter to cover the costs of the idiots that don't. Welcome to America. Land of the free-to-go-rebuild-your home. Take a little bit of responsibility and our offered social programs will work fine. This is just Darwinism, culling out the weak minded.

You probably don't hear this very often, but.... God bless Darwin.

The word is "lose,'' as in lose everything.

Plain and simple, this country is going to @!$%#.

This is crazy, what ever happened to the "Hero" Fire fighters? Whats next Doctors will not save your life because you have no insurance, this goes without saying that these firefighters need to be "Fired" there are thousands that need jobs that would have fought the fire.............................

It is unconscionable that they did not attempt to save the animals.

I agree netcom the country is in baaad shape. So what if he didnt pay the fee that makes him lazy and incompetent? Do any of you even know the man? Do you know if he could afford that $75? Does the man pay state taxes? If so why doesnt that entitle him to fire protection? Why didnt the fire department do him a favor and put out the fire? If they would have they would have perfect grounds to ask for a fee much higher than the $75 just in case fee. Now because he didnt pay and needed the assistance they could have charged him $7500 and Im sure he would have paid it willingly especially if his houe and pets were saved. The firefighters arrived at his nieghbors house and sprayed their house and yard. Since the firefighters were there already they couldnt have just turned the hose a little and douse the flames? This is idiotic and rediculous. To all those that think the guy got what he deserved. I hope Karma give you a dose of what he got.

this is a situation that while i feel bad for the guy i support the fire department.

a few of you made the point that fire fighting has moved to the public doman. while that might be the case where you live it obviously wasnt the case here.

mozzie--- you really think that a human life should be risked for the sake of an animal? risk your own but dont ask someone else to do the same. ill risk my life for my dog but i wouldnt ask someone else to.

guito---- thats right. i should just expect to roll up to a drive through, order and than get my food without paying. after all. i was already there and the food had been prepared. dont like that analogy? lets try another. you should be able to get free cable because after all. the line is already hooked up and you paid the last three years. why bother paying again when the service is already there. let me guess. you dont like that analogy either. ok ill try one more time... lets say you live on the edge of the city line next to another city that hasnt been annexed. you call 911 and than expect the other city police to respond even though your taxes dont pay for them. even though the other city police are closer, the city police your in responds taking 30 min longer. do you have the right to complain? nope

DRFP---- and no. doctors WILL NOT save your life if you dont have insurance or the cash to pay. if you didnt know that you really are as dumb as your comment

joanne---- you do that. send a letter. it wont fix the situation and it shouldnt.

now just because i support the action taken, that does not mean that i agree witht he system. it definately needs to change.

Mozzie-6

It is unconscionable that they did not attempt to save the animals.

I love my animals but I would never ask a firefighter to risk his or her life to save them.

sebastion,

DRFP---- and no. doctors WILL NOT save your life if you dont have insurance or the cash to pay. if you didnt know that you really are as dumb as your comment.

What world do you live in? Doctors do this every day because they live up to the Hippocratic oath. You have the nerve to call someone dumb.

Doctors do this every day because they live up to the Hippocratic oath.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/10/17-0?

They should have contained the fire, putting it out.

Then the Fire Dept. could have gone after this guy to pay up, charged with time, life endangerment to the firefighters. These firefighters knew there were 3 dogs and a cat in the house.

Talk about brainless. The owner and the firefighters. In this case, Principal of the subject doesn't work.

hayte---- thanks for the backup proof.

fletch----- yes i have the nerve. hypocratic oathes dont mean a damn thing if the patient never makes it to them. its not doctors running the front desk or the e.r. its the nurses who are under strict orders from the owner/chief of the hospital not to let anyone in who cannot pay. in fact thats the main reason your not just allowed to walk up to a room and demand service. the buffer at the front desk is meant to keep the hospital with paying customers only. so once again... yes. i have the nerve to call someone dumb for not knowing the very basics of hospital care. and while he may have been dumb your just an idiot for continuing to argue an obviously losing point

joanne----- haha good point!

Kstarr1 -- the next time you enjoy those farm fresh eggs (free range of course because I am sure you would do nothing to impugne the Earth or any of its lifeforms) or before you bite into that cob of corn (organically grown because of course any other way would be oh so hurtful to the environment) please consider that those of us who actually live a rural life do so for mere pennies on the dollar...$75 would feed our families for a month or more...we don't make decisions based in the thousands of dollars but in the tens of dollars...but please, enjoy our hospitality and generosity that makes you feel so secure that you are doing something to "save the Earth."

Good luck with that....

I agree. They should use a graduated fee system for non-payers. Four or five times the annual fee amount should do it. However, as was said this may result in more non-compliance as people decide to gamble on whether or not they will suffer a fire or not. An easier way to handle this would be to have an annual assessment paid at the same time you paid your property taxes. This way everybody pays.

This is the email to the Obion County Mayor. Please email him and let him know what you think of his County's response to this families time of need.

'obioncountymayor@ken-tennwireless.com'

The reason the firefighters hung out and watched the house burn down is to ensure that nobody ended up going back into the fire. Had there been someone in the house (human, not animal) at the time it was burning, they WOULD most certainly have gone in and saved the person - utilizing the fire equipment to clear the way for the firefighter to do that job, regardless if the man paid the fire service fee or not. Their job is not to risk their lives to save "stuff" or even animals. To put out the fire, in that case, requires a fee, which the man knowingly did not pay.

I come from a small rural area in Missouri with the same fee-for-service all-volunteer fire department set up, and my father served on the all-volunteer force. You'd be amazed how many times the poor-white-trash-free-loading dirtbag families (who don't pay the fire support fee) will attempt to push one of their own children or relatives BACK INTO the fire in order to set up a potential lawsuit against the fire department for "not saving my loved one". That's why they stay....to make sure nobody goes back into the fire deliberately (or against their will as was the case with one family in my dear, hometown).

Everyone seems to be under the impression that all fire services are funded by tax dollars, they aren't. There are private companies in the US that provide fire and ems services to outlying areas for a fee. What if no one paid the fee upfront? How would the department pay for staffing and equipment? People are also angry asking "what if someone was in the house". No one was so it's a mute point. If this would have been a last minute decision by the fire service I could see the issue. He didn't take the insurance and understood the risks.

Hayte...,

I read the site and this is a political progressive website pushing the health care bill. This article was written in October 2009, blaming Obama. If you read correctly, they were blaming insurance companies, not doctors. Since I know for a fact that hospitals do not turn away emergency cases. There are waiting rooms filled with uninsured people who do get care.

Since you are commenting on what I said " Doctors do this every day because they live up to the Hippocratic oath". This is the the truth, since if you believe the article, the hospital turned them away, not a Doctor. They were criticizing insurance companies not Doctors.

These are our killing fields. In America. In October 2009. In Barack Obama's America. That land full of hope and promise for those who can afford that hope and promise. Yet few in our government offices react as one might think you would when hearing of Jenny and the baby and Sean and Kylee.

Amanda (Tannery) Field, 30, has thrombocytosis and doctors are also working her up for Budd Chiari syndrome which is preventing the liver from draining properly......Aetna, her insurer, has denied help due to a lapse in coverage while she was unemployed..........Doctors are currently working on a variety of interim measures to keep her alive.

Our government should grant, provide and protect the right to healthcare as if it meant the future of our nation or its failure. Because that is exactly what it does mean.

I think it's truly sad that in todays society, one man just happen to "forget" his lousy 75$ bill, and now his home is burnt to the ground because, those individuals that were there that night, did not have the HEART AND SOUL of a real human being, and PUT THE DAMN FIRE OUT!!!! For a whole little fire department" mind you, its RURAL, WHERE NEIGHBORS are far and in between" to sit there and WATCH, watch as a whole family in agony, as everything they have worked for go down in flames??? You are SICK, YOU UNDERSTAND ME??? Each and every individual who was involved in that incident, Karmas a bitch, remember that! Remember every single scream, cry, and howls and screech's of the animals that ALL YOU SO CALLED FIRE FIGHTERS KILLED! Heartless you are, everyone of you! If I ever did that in the Marines, or if I ever saw one of my Marines doing that, lets just say, my knee will quench your thirst! Was 75$ really worth the torture of a family losing ALL THEIR BELONGINGS??

Read the story. These firefighters are not public servants. They are a volunteer force meaning they are your neighbors. Volunteer fireman are generally not paid even when on duty fighting a fire. There are no taxes in that county for rural fire service hence the $75 fee (they tried to implement the tax and it was voted down). These facts are clearly explained in this and other articles. Hmmm...goes to show taxes aren't always so bad now are they?

As for this entire incident; I'm of the opinion they should have put out the fire. I'm ok with the idea of charging penalty fees later. Seems like a simple solution. Maybe they will institue this policy now that this has occurred.

As for this entire incident; I'm of the opinion they should have put out the fire. I'm ok with the idea of charging penalty fees later.

I'm pretty sure that's what they were supposed to do and that it was simply a violation of their contract with the municipality for them to do otherwise, and if so, then they should be made to pay for the fire damage to this house and all the belongings in it as a breech of contract.

In my municipality, we either pay $200/yr, or get billed $8,000 per hour per firetruck that responds to a fire and homeowner's insurance will not cover that cost.

Where has our humanity gone? They didn't even try and save their pets?

The way they set up the fee system, it was a form of blackmail if you didn't pay. They could have saved the house, then billed the owner or liened the house if the bill wasn't paid.

Black mark for the Fire Department and the County. Shame.

These "Firefighters" were probably lucky there were no marshmellows around...with thier ethics they would have probably been roasting them when a news crew showed up. Pretty disgusting no matter how you look at it. You are there and standing with thumb up your butt while someones home, possessions and pets are all burned to the ground. Hope they are all proud. I wonder if any of them have pets? can they stomach going home and petting them?

Of course I can see this might be a good racket for them...find out the people that haven't paid then set fires at their homes...extortionists/mafiaso might be proud of these guys.

I agree. I mean, what kind of world do we live in where a man will just stand there and watch another's house burn, over $75. It literally makes me sick to my stomach. Then the fire dept wants to say it's because they "had to" not do anything?! Guaranteed, if it was their house or one of their family's or friend's house, they would be saying the same thing a lot of us are saying right now - How could you not do anything over $75???

I can't help but wonder whats next? Pre-Paid Police protection? If you don't pay their fee they won't come out to stop theives from stealing your vehicle or robbing your house? Pre-Paid for ambulence service? If your some elderly person who falls and can't get up, if you didn't pay your annual fee you'll just lay there? What about pre-paid homeland security? If some terrorist, home or abroad decides to target you and does so, you should be up the creek without a paddle?

Whats more is what if there had been people inside that building as it went up in flames? I would personally consider that negligent homicide on the fire dept's part regardless if their fee was paid or not. What if that home had been near a forest? Or in a crowded neighborhood? Or near an old decrepit gas main (causing an explosion similar to what happened in california)?

There are some things that just should not be pre-pay services. To top it off the guy did offer to pay the fire dept any amount they wanted when they did decide to show up for the neighbor's property. That same neighbor even said he wanted them to deal with the fire. That should have been in both cases acceptable enough to have them do the job they're paid to do.

If I ever did that in the Marines, or if I ever saw one of my Marines doing that, lets just say, my knee will quench your thirst!

As a Marine I would suspect you remember something called 'Chain of Command' so to sit there and call every one of those fire fighters 'heartless' is asinine.

But when did elementary school teaching of RULES become obsolete? Don't we have them for a reason? Sure the FD 'could' have billed the family for the cost of the call but that wasn't in this TWENTY YEAR OLD POLICY. You can't expect the fire fighters to play the name your price game while they were on scene and you can't expect them to provide a service the man hadn't paid for. Otherwise why would ANYONE bother paying the fee.

My guess is that this subscription based fire service system came as a compromise between those rural residents who wanted the service 20 yrs ago and those who did not. The fact remains that was the policy and it wasn't a surprise to anyone, or at east shouldn't have been. We don't get to change the rules in the middle of the game, otherwise they're useless.

'You'd be amazed how many times the poor-white-trash-free-loading dirtbag families (who don't pay the fire support fee) will attempt to push one of their own children or relatives BACK INTO the fire in order to set up a potential lawsuit against the fire department for "not saving my loved one".

--annieoakley 1.70

This seems to be the sentiment of those who blame the man who lost his home.

Whether expressed as clearly as annieoakley said it or stated in a more diplomatic manner, the same sentiment comes through, and it's this....

He got what he deserved for not paying the 75 dollars in advance.

And he did not pay that 75 dollars because he is a white trash, free loading dirtbag. And the rest of the family is as well, guilt by association.

Never mind the fact that in order to believe this you have to pre judge this man, his situation in life, then extrapolate all of this to make it applicable to his family as well.

Having done this, it easy to believe that one is very much morally and ethically superior to this man. He made his bed, let him lay in it, right?

This is about as un-Christian as it gets. It is just an excuse, a rationale for hating the less fortunate and the poor, and convincing yourself that you a better person than they are. It is willful blindness. You think it cannot happen to you, because you have made yourself safe and secure, all by your own hand.

This country really is going to hell on a fire pole.

1. Voters turned down tax for fire fighting 3 times. 2. If fireman gets hurt fighting a "no fee" fire, the insurance does not have to pay for his care, he loses his job..ie VOLUNTEER fire fighter. STOP being URBAN bigots..rural means NO MONEY..thats why there is a fees for services. And for the lein comment: Liens only work if a place is sold..until that time the lien can sit and stay unpaid forever..they are not the IRS. I live in a rural undeveloped area and yes it sucks, but put the blame where it belongs..with the trash burning and no water present to put out a stray spark..where is the initial responsibility?

Hey, its easy to impose fine but is there a law that enforces payment. If he refuses to pay what happens, how do they get fund. Sorry, the fire department is not exactly a charity organisation. The fire trunks cost money, they require money for mentenance. It cost mony to get water. Damn, if you want service who got to pay for it. Simple

The County would eventually have been paid back through the lien, even if the homeowner didn't pay the bill. The County would not have been out a dime.

There's no excuse. The way the County has the system set up, it's blackmail. If you don't pay upfront, you're not allowed to pay afterwards.

Shame on the County and shame on the fire department.

Okay for all you railing about them not getting their 75 bucks, whats the difference between getting it the day before or paid to them while they were there on site, if it was just about the 75 bucks? He actually offered to pay them anything they wanted to take care of the fire. His neighbor who did pay (who should be able to have a say in how his 75 bucks was applied) wanted them to deal with the burning house. What happened that night was inexcusable. And if there had been humans in that fire rather than pets, the blood of those lives would've been on the hands of those fire fighters. Thats just all there is to it.

Shame on the County and shame on the fire department.

Yes they should be publicly shammed and as well as ashamed of themselves.

Okay for all you railing about them not getting their 75 bucks, whats the difference between getting it the day before or paid to them while they were there on site, if it was just about the 75 bucks? He actually offered to pay them anything they wanted to take care of the fire.

Are we still not getting this? If they allowed this man to pay the $75 ON SITE, then there would be no reason ANYONE would ever pay the fee UNTIL there was a fire at their property!

And as far as him paying ANYTHING they wanted... how much do they take? What would be fair? There would be no way for the fire fighters to sit and calculate the cost of fighting that fire on site. Any amount they charged would probably been viewed as blackmail or bribery of some sort AND... THAT WASN'T WRITTEN INTO THE POLICY!

You don't get to change the rules mid game. We have rules in place for a reason and we all have to play under them.

Had there been people inside the home, I feel fairly comfortable that as humans, they would have done what ever it took to get them out and once everyone was safe probably still would have let the property burn.

No one has any obligation to protect your PROPERTY without compensation.

It doesnt matter, they were wrong, its a bad system that shouldn't exist outside of 3rd world countries and dictatorships, and they should do away with it asap!

It might be a bad system but it is the one that has been in place for 20+ years and everyone involved knew it. The only thing worse than a BAD system is none at all and even for a bad system to work, people must follow the rules.

Athiesmo: I would never ask a firefighter to risk his or her life to save them.

That's what firefighters do for a living. If they said no, I'd do it myself. Our pets have entrusted us to take care of them, and they are at our mercy. Their survival is our responsibility. To do anything less is cruel and unforgivable.

P.S. to my above post 1.91: An animal doesn't suffer from being burned alive any less than a human does. To those of you who think an animal is not worth saving from a horrific death due to negligence, you should not have any.

Mozzie -- would you be willing to look the widow and children of a firefighter who died in the line of duty in the eye and say "Sorry, your husband and father is dead but I still have my dog!" How selfish is that! Have you ever lost a husband or child and know that pain? I have!! Losing a pet is awful, no doubt, but to risk a human life is crazy!! I suggest you rethink this from a greiving family's point of view!

Shipup: This is what firefighters GET PAID TO DO. They signed up for this. I am not being callous here. They are paid to save lives - all species, not just humans. That's their job. And if they do it right, nobody gets hurt.

Shipup: Firefighters know what they are doing. They go to school to learn what risks to take. I don't know why you would presume to tell them how to do their job.

No, they are not paid to save lives of all species!!! In this case, they are volunteers and not paid at all!!! I have witnessed a family friends house burning down, just around the corner from my own. The fire department was not there to "save the house", they were there to save people, and prevent the fire from spreading. Once a house is engulfed in flames, no amount of "spraying water" is gonna help the situation. And, I love my pets, but I think any human who thinks its worth risking a life to save an animal, even from extreme pain, is crazy. I may be considered a bigot for saying this, but HUMANS ARE BETTER THAN ANIMALS. We are more important, more significant, more intelligent, etc.. The only thing a dog has over a human is loyalty, because none would be as quick to attack their entire race as humans, who are constantly looking to the animal kingdom to degregate themselves. Only humans have moral codes, so stop imposing human moral values on creatures.

Demosthenes: HUMANS ARE BETTER THAN ANIMALS.

Only by your standards. If a dog is unlucky enough to have you as her owner, she would do her best to save you from a fire.

Our "moral codes" haven't served us very well now, have they?

Your right Demosthenes Humans are better than animals in the way that they have larger brains and more intelligence. If your a christian that has read the bible you would Know that it states the More you know the More your accountable for. When you take an animal in to feed and care for it you are claiming responsibility for that animals life. YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE for that LIFE in the eyes of "GOD" because YOU KNOW more than that animal and you have the ability to see cause and effect relationships. YOU KNOW if you leave said animal in a burning building it will suffer a most excrutiating death. The animal does NOT know this untill its too late. When you make a conscious descision to take responsibility of another beings LIFE you are accountable for that life. Even if you dont believe in "GOD" that is what morality is. That is what it means to be human.

"Paid to save all species" -- ok so they would also need to enter your burning home to save your goldfish, grab your hamster, save your bird, empty your aquarium. I have always had animals and they are my family. But in the worst case scenerio, I would never expect a firefighter to risk his or her life to save my pets. I don't care how well trained they are or whether they were paid to do it or not. The cost would be too great in the event of a tragedy. When my oldest daughter recently got married, I didn't cry because my dog wasn't there!!

Also, going after an animal would be very risky. They would be scared and run and hide from the firefighter, not go to him/her as a person would do. My one dog never goes to strangers so how long should the firefighter stay in my burning house trying to grab her?

In any case, I would imagine that on the scene the fire chief's job would be to protect human life and wouldn't allow one of his troops into a burning building for a pet, regardless.

I applaud your commitment to animals. I feel much the same way. But in this area, I'm going to have to disagree, vehemently!

Hayte...,

I read the site and this is a political progressive website pushing the health care bill. This article was written in October 2009, blaming Obama. If you read correctly, they were blaming insurance companies, not doctors. Since I know for a fact that hospitals do not turn away emergency cases. There are waiting rooms filled with uninsured people who do get care.

Hospitals DO turn folks away in FLA. Doctors aren't superheros. They are in that line of work for the money. If you think otherwise, you are being purposfully naive. Do a search for yourself. That was just on the first page of the search. There are many more that have been reported.

Whatever your opinion of the site and its agenda, the fact that it happened has not been disputed. The fact that it continues to happen is in dispute but, I know alot of folks in the health care industry and I can tell you that it is not perfect nor altruistic in terms of oaths taken and honor bestowed.

In FLA we have a Doctor that refused treatment to those who voted against his agenda. Get that? He refused to treat folks because of the way they voted. Wanna know why? Because he couldn't double dip medicare and medicaid anymore because of the Obama Plan. His view of the hypocratic oath is apparent in his actions.

I don't have the answers to this problem. I don't know if Obamas plan will work. I don't know how treatment will be affected, but I do know that if something is NOT done, the consequences will be dire.

If you have a better idea, please don't post it here. E-Mail the president. I'm sure he's looking for good ideas and if yours will work, he'd gladly give you credit.

*******************************

BTT:

I maintain that this move by that fire department is evidence of a terrible business model. A system should be in place to let those who have opted not to pay the fee of $75 to pay an emergancy service charge of $100. Done this way, folks don't have to watch their homes burn, the fire department makes money and folks have an avenue to pay a price for a poor decision of $25 instead of their homes.

Guito: Amen to that.

Shipup: Although I know that a fireman would do what he/she could to get everybody out of the house, I think your comments about expecting them to empty the aquarium, etc., are a bit sarcastic. A relative is a Captain on the fire department, and they do try to save everybody and everything that they can without putting their own lives in jeopardy. I am not attacking you. But I do hope you never have to make the decision - for your pet's sake - to save a them from a horrible death or let them perish. Take a deep breath now, and try to relax.

Mozzie -- you were the one that stated the firefighters were supposed to save "all species," I just called you on it! Of course I was being sarcastic. LOL

I have a brother-in-law that was a firefighter (now is a paramedic) so I understand their dedication as well. But I fully admit that when I hear people talk about having firefighters enter their burning homes to save their pets, it gets me going. If I ever have to make that decision, as awful and painful as it might be, I will tell the firefighters not to go. I have spent the past 12 years raising my daughters without their father (who died of natural causes when they were young) and no pet, no property, no money, nothing is worth the risk of losing a human life and having a family go through that pain, except another human life. I will get off my soap box now! You're right, I do need to take a deep breath and relax --- this topic raises my blood pressure! :-)

ShipupMom: From one widow (17 years now) to another, I sympathize with you. My animals have been a tremendous blessing to me.

Everyone is missing the real issue here.....what effort did the CITY make to remind the "opt-in" residents living on the edge of the city that they had not paid their "subscription" fee? Do they send out annual statements? Do they send reminders if not paid within a certain period? Annual fees are hard to remember to pay if such notices are not sent. How many of you have had your driver's license or other licenses expire because you failed to pay attention to expiration dates? Monthly fees are much easier to remember to pay than annual fees, right?

... This is what firefighters GET PAID TO DO. They signed up for this. I am not being callous here. They are paid to save lives - all species, not just humans. That's their job. And if they do it right, nobody gets hurt...

No wonder the American Indian could never get a treaty that stuck.

the Major argument that permeates this thread is; Compassion, Mercy, - help out your neighbor ... even if he ignors the rules, even if ye avoides paying his "fair share" of the costs of having, maintaining a Fire department which could respond in times of need ... even if the home owner is a self admitted arsonist, who allow uncontrolled burning on his own property - with as much as having the forsight to have a water hose near by or even an adult in charge of the open air burn. Then he attempt to avoid calling the Fire Service (more evidence that our Independent anarchist knew, from the start, that he did not have any intention of participating in the FD subscriber service.

Now he is on TV sheding Crocidill tears about how aweful - HE - is being treated.

The above posting wants to talk out of both sides his mouth ...

Fire fighter are, in his words; PAID to fight fires - thus we should not be concerned about their safety when they are asked to risk their life to go into a burning building to save the "family Hamster", Pet Rat, mouse, teddy bear, picture of our wedding, Grand Mothers burial Urn - all the things they forgot to get out of the house, when the fire was inching its way toward the house.

They are PAID to fight fires ... But they weren't PAID, dammit - that the whole point of the thread. They weren't PAID, specifically not by the " idjit "- in - Charge of the family who lost their home. Seems to me the blame - all of it - is fairly, firmly attributed to the gross negligence of the penny-wise, skin flint home owner. Now he is still an owner... of a pile of ashes and want "donations" to get his sorry behind in out of the weather.

Make up your mind, either as professionals they should do their job ... or as professionals, no pay - no workee! ... Is that too much to ask? Damn bleeding heart Tea Baggers - always whining about Government cost, but when the feces hit the fan ... want free services.

Was there ever any moral to the story of the Grasshopper vs, the Ant?

So, Bunky... you feel ... they should do it Anyway?

Why! Please limit your argument to logical responses, if you can find any.

Anti-Trust, What effort did the city make to ensure that he signed up? Who cares??? When did this become the cities fault? This guy doesnt live in the city!!! If I'm being generous enough to give an offer to the rural area outside my city and say I'll give them fire service if they pay me, I also need to follow up with them? Only in America would idiots complain about being offered a life saving service!!!

Re: Before, when we were discussing doctors who don't take in patients without insurance. Yes, a doctor is a professional, but many people become doctors because of a deep felt compassion in their youth. After a young student graduates medical school, $200,000 in debt and working 20 hour shifts, they deserve to make some money. They get to help people, and in exchange, people help them by paying their due. Many doctors used to give more free services as well. You know what liberal America did to the charitable doctor? Exposed this poor doctor who works like crazy to the Justice department of the United States and crazy tort laws. A doctor can lose millions of dollars they do not have for doing something for free and messing up slightly. Why should people actively try to be nice when they will get screwed?

Boewoelf: Compassion, Mercy, - help out your neighbor ... even if he ignors [sic] the rules, even if ye avoides [sic] paying his "fair share" of the costs of having, maintaining a Fire department which could respond in times of need .

You say these firefighters were "not paid to fight fires". (In Cincinnati, they are paid, which was my reference.) Regardless, these firefighters made the choice to protect property. They chose to protect other people's property from being destroyed by fire. Under U.S. law, animals are still considered "property", (as it were), and absolutely should be included.

You are making many judgements here--that Gene Cranick is an idiot; and also is a skinflint, when he has said he forgot to pay the annual fee. Unless you know the man personally--which may or may not be the case--and unless you know his personal intent and financial circumstances, I daresay you have no cause to judge him or his family. Certainly, the man has lost his HOME AND ALL HIS POSSESSIONS! Have you no compassion for his circumstances at all? If not, I hope I never have the opportunity to meet you, as we would never get along. You are lucky if you have never exprienced his situation. Maybe you need to think about this for awhile.

Yes to your statements above. What harm does it do to have compassion for another human being? What harm? You should count your blessings.

I fully agree with you if it had been a family member of one of the Fire Department they would not have just stood by they would have acted faster then the speed of light... I hope someone calls PETA because those people don't play about the animals & if anyone can get things shaken up it's them..

Remarkable insight...

I've noticed that too. when I was a kid, my friends Dad owned an Ice cream franchise. I was shocked and appalled when he gave free ice cream to his kids and more often than not, would give me a cone for free. Sometimes would even give my Dad a discount when we came in.

Secretly, I think he was being generous to us because I was friends with his kid ... but I never told anyone, they wouldn't have understood. That wasn't the only experience where there was rampant favoritism going on. Its a pernicious infection spreading, like wildfire, through out the country.

I would bet that this man did not have home owners insurance so he lost everything. I sold insurance for J.C. Penny Insurance. They would not let me sell home owners insurance if a house was more than a certain distance from a fire hydrant or a further than a specified distance from a fire house. If a person lived outside an Incorporated area with no fire protection we could not issue them a policy even if the state had mandatory insurance pool.

First these firefighters are not sworn to serve these people unless they pay, they(homeowner) live out side of the city that these firefighters serve. Second if you "forget" to pay your light bill do they leave your lights on untill you rember to pay??? I think not. Lastly there WAS a burn ban it effect and these people were the cause of the fire.

so many of you are missing the real problem here. No matter what the fee if you don't pay you don't play. It was a volunteer fire dept. If he wanted to save his house he could of done many things. 1st and foremost he should of kept his fire fee paid. second he should of kept his insurance current. 3rd he could of joined the local volunteer FD. In all reality he was probably 1 of the DON'T RAISE MY TAXES IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN TO ME people when they tried to get a tax passed. The volunteers did not start the fire they are just there to help whoever supports their service. In all reality the double wide was probably pretty much gone before they got there anyways.

Its about time these free-loaders get what's coming. This guy was probably one of those fighting against the fees to begin with. Karma my friend, Karma

You should volunteer. It takes a LOT of training and it's very dangerous. See above of John-2488732! I worked over 40rs a week on my main job AND a second job. I went to a LOT of training. Woke up in middle of the night, kids school events missed and he couldn't even pay $75???? THEY TURNED DOWN THE TAX LEVY to boot!!! And YOU blame the FF's?? He started the fire that got out of hane, NO life was in danger. HE made the choice. Fighting a fire in a double wide is very dangerous to boot and HE chose NOT to have FF protection. Read WHOLE article, the FF's were feeling the pain, It's what we train for, but he made the choice. They HAVE to fund the Fire Dept and helping those who don't pay, only hurts others that do by showing that you get coverage w/o paying.

Guess all you educated and knowledgeable people forgot to read the story. It said he forgot to pay the $75,nor does it say if he paid all those yrs prior.Guess all you perfect people saying this man didn't pay the $75 on purpose has never ever forgot to pay a bill.I just watched a video on this and the man said he paid the yrs prior and just forgot this yr.And all you sorry a$$' out there saying "if you don't pay your phone bill then you don't get phone service" well all you have to do is the what you owe and the phone is turned back on. This fire dept was wrong, the man paid the yrs prior and just forgot this time around.They should have responded and put the fire out and collected the $75 after.

Remember this is completely volunteer FD. These guys do this on their own time to help others. It's sad but a result of their system. If you don't pay, even it was just an oversight, then you get no service. The firefighters share no blame. (I also feel confident had anyone been inside they would have rescued them.) I'm sure by this time next year they will have tax to cover fire protection. If they don't then the blame is with the people who live in Obion County.

Exactly! Impose a "Post Fire Protection" fee of $500.00. Makes sense and everyone wins. Common sense people...remember that?

Exactly! Impose a "Post Fire Protection" fee of $500.00. Makes sense and everyone wins.

No legal grounds to do so. The city cannot force residents outside city limits to accept their services nor impose a penalty.

I believe there are cruelty to animal laws in Tenn. If the fire chief knew there where animals in the house and let them burn to death I think that would violate the law. We all have been burned at one time or another imagine dieing that way. Before you reply to this remember Vick was not at the fights or training the dogs he knew it was going on at his property. If it had been a person in there something they where not sure. Had they only done enough to attempt to save the animals there would be less blow back.

The fir department decided to give the cost of this fire to everyone that has insurance that covers fire. Just as the hospitals pass on the cost of uninsured to everyone. The difference is fire departments are not for profit I would like to see how much of the municipalities money comes from the federal government or state. If this man paid taxes to either then he as well as everyone else is owed a refund.

I believe there are cruelty to animal laws in Tenn. If the fire chief knew there where animals in the house and let them burn to death I think that would violate the law.

This gets tiring. The chief did not set the fire. If anyone would be charged with cruelty to animals it would be the home owner who through negligence set his house on fire. Not only that but with the amount of time it took for the fire to actually reach the house, he could have gotten them out.

Or, he could pay the fee like everyone else did!

everyone on the forum is missing the point. if you don't follow the rules and pay the fee ahead of time then no one every will. what happens when no one pays the fee until they need the fire department... what happens is there is no fire department because they have gone bankrupt and had to close it down because they have no money for operating cost.

where have you been "to protect and serve" these are not what the police and fire fighters ar eabout it is the money...to put out your fire or the tickets you are give no warning just here your ticket......money money money to rich get richer and to poor get poorer and we can not aford all the fees that are need to run fire and police protection....this country is ran by lawers..bankers and insurance comp...they all get what they want reguardless of what is realy needed...try to find one person in politics that does not fall into one of this 3

What's bogus about the question itself is that MSNBC left pertinent information out, like his neighbor had the money to pay for the bill and they continued to try and get the firefighters to take it but they wouldn't. That's what I mean when I speak about how the media can get the polls to go in what ever direction they want them to.

Now had the neighbor part of the story been included and you then asked people should the firefighters allowed the home to burn anyway, even though the monies was available on the spot, majority would have said the fire should have been put out. Don't trust the media or MSNBC.

Let's think about this for a minute. The fire department does not respond to a fire where the home is burning down, yet responds right next door to where the fire has spread, watches the first home burn to the ground (remember cats and dogs are inside) and extinguishes the fire next door. The money is not even the issue. The greater problem is ethics. What code of ethics does a firefighter live by? This town should be sanctioned on ethical charges.

Again, let me state first: I agree that the fire should have been extinguished...period...fee, no fee, whatever. Do the work, bill it out on a VERY expensive "guess I won't forget to pay the cheap $75.00 fee next year" rate when the work is done...BUT DO THE DAMN JOB!!!

Now, the fire department NEVER GOT THE CALL!!!! It was the 911 dispatcher who refused to send the fire department. They were only dispatched after the fire had completely consumed the original house, and spread across the property to a neighbors house who called 911 AGAIN!!! THEN, and ONLY THEN did 911 dispatch the fire department who put out the fire at the neighbors house, and sprayed water along the fence line of the original property...by then it was too late for them to do anything for the man anyway...yes, I agree, a little effort on their part could have at least made him feel better....but it would not have saved his house, pets, or property.

@Torry:
I completely agree with you about the ethics of the situation. The truck WAS THERE, how could men take an oath as firefighters and then do this?

The policy is ridiculous. If it's about the money, I'm sure this man would have payed whatever it cost to put out this fire (actual cost for man-hours, equipment, materials, etc.). They should have at least given the option for this, then this man's home could have been saved for a few hundred, or even thousand dollars...

Yeah, the man would have said he will pay all the costs associated with stopping the fire. But, since there is no signed contract between him and the private firehouse, then he doesn't have to pay, and the firehouse would have to take him to court. Again, no signed contract, so there is a strong chance the court would not force the man to pay.

Now, we also know, that the man doesn't have enough money to pay the firefighters for the cost of stopping the fire in the first place.

This firehouse stays in business and is able to pay the wages, buy the trucks, fuel, water, equipment etc because of the yearly $75 fee. If people didn't pay for the coverage, then this firehouse would be out of business.

he chose (intentionally or not) to not pay this fee, knowing full well what it meant, burned his trash in his yard, putting his neighbors at risk...his insurance company should reject his claim because he didn't pay this fee...it is just that simple

Welcome to the new privatized world. This is not an indictment of the poor man and his family, but an opportunity to show how a privatized public service has failed to respond to a tragedy. This is just a taste of what will happen if we lose our ability to think and act as a concerned society for the welfare for others. Laissez faire capitalism will prove to be a Hobbesian nightmare.

I'm betting that his insurance company would have gladly paid the fee.

@awfton:

It's not a new privatized world. The residents of that county pay millions in property and sales tax, and as a whole, the entire state collected $12.2 billion in taxes for 2009. There is enough money to fund fire coverage for everyone in the entire county.

However, the local governments choose to spend the bulk of the revenue collected on public education, and less on emergency services.

So, not only are the citizens being raped by a progressive tax system (socialism), they don't even get to enjoy basic services like fire protection.

So, of course the local fire department has to look for private funding if they are going to respond to calls outside of their jurisdiction. Otherwise, there won't be any fire department at all for these rural areas.

Lets see. Less government. More private corporations. The government save your home and life whether you are rich or poor. The private corporation watch you burn and loose everything. Obviously wouldn't even try to save a life (real heroes).

We should all move to this wonderful state. Visitors remember, if you are vacationing here, pop in to the local emergency services office and make sure you find out how much you need to pay in advance of a possible accident or emergency. We need to support private business and get rid of big government, who is ruining our lives.

The man was in a wheelchair. I guess if he was on fire, he would have to stop, drop, and roll while they watched. Pathetic bunch of losers. People should stop paying and then who would hire them?

If people stopped paying, then there wouldn't be ANY fire protection services for the area.

Blame the local government for wasting the bulk of the tax dollars on public education instead of emergency services. Since they are forcing us to pay taxes, then they should be spending it on these types of emergency services, then there wouldn't be a need for a quasi-privately funded firehouse to cover this area.

There isn't any protection. I suppose you do or did not use the public school system. I agree that we should blame government, but how many of us are asking for less government?

This is a basic moral issue. They watched the man home burn. Is that what we have become as Americans? Privatize everything , get big government out of our lives and watch us burn. I am sure they are not after him for not paying taxes.

What is your gripe with education? You make it sound like a pariah. It seems like ya'll could use a little.

Whats wrong with public education??? Really?

Have you seen the documentary "Waiting for Superman"?

Just do a simple Google search and you'll see the waste of our tax dollars on Teachers' unions, overpaid officials, children being taught how wonderful communism is, how to put condoms on a cucumber, how homosexuals contributed to the world, and how our students rare failing to graduate at record levels, while ranking low against the rest of the world. Public education has failed us, and is wasting our tax dollars.

Spend less money on public education, and more money on emergency services and these rural communities wouldn't have to contract with firehouses outside of their jurisdiction.

@2.13

Yeeah, we're going to have to take back that reading and writing then.

Do you not see anything funny about writing about how bad wasting money on education is?

Stop pulling the ladder up after you there.

Tonya,

After reading your statement. I do realize that the public education system failed you. But I know several highly educated, successful professionals who went through the same system that seem to have let you down.

You are probably listening to Sarah Palin who doesn't think a good education is necessary, and is quick to criticize those who have one (a good education that is).

Your bigotry is showing.

It disturbs me to know That a mans home can be let to burn to the ground over $75. And our own fed. gov. Bailed out private and foriegn banks to the tune of $1.3 trillion. I would rather see them save this mans house!!!!!!

Tonya, let me get this straight, instead of spending your tax dollars on teacher's unions that you feel are letting you down, you want them to spend it on police and fire-fighter unions that have proven in this very story that they will let you down?

Remember, think first THEN type.

... Also, by not putting out the fire over a $75.00 bill, the fire spread to another persons home who will now have to file an insurance claim along with the initial home owner. Theses claims will then turn around and raise everyones premiums including the fire fighters who only cared about $75.00 ...

Yes, and if the is any justice in the world - the neighbor should sue the home owner for letting the fire get out of control. folks, this ain't Rocket science or Brain Surgery, (although, at least one party in the incident, the home owner, exhibits signs that he may have had a lobotomy at some point in his life. Or at the very least, been fed paint chips or played with Lead toys as a small child.

Even a cursory investigation, using root cause analysis, would point directly at the culprit being open air burning, unsupervised by any responsible party... everything else flowed from that initial error.

Using your own quote you could also argue that since the Neighbor had paid his fee and the fire was encroaching his property the FD was then obligated to extinguish the fire. What the FD did was spray the neighbors house and stand by incase the fire spread to said neighbors house. I side with the neighbor if I paid my fee and my house was becoming endangered by said fire. I would want the fire extinguished entirely every spark and cinder regardless of wether my neighbor paid or not. I did and the fire is spreading to my property PUT IT OUT NOW!!!

They had no right, implied nor leaglly, to work on the other property. Your statement that protection of property #2, they were required to put out the fire on property #1 - is self serving and emotionally based.

example: If you or the city "knew" that vermin were breeding in the property next door (roaches, rats, termites ... whatever), you , the city nor both have any right or obligation to exterminate on the the source of the invasion - much like our country ... you must wait until they cross the border. Fire is no different, until it crosses from one property to the other, or possibly in an extreme emergency could you advance from fire defence to move to attack mode.

As noted, in this case, the only real faillure is on the part of property owner #1 to prevent, the fire from gettig out of control in the first place. Had his fee's been up to date - I would expect he would have call the FD, sooner - when they had a chance to extinguish the fire while it was still a grass frie - before any structures were involved. But that just a guess as is all this tempest, attempt to blame everyone .... except the property owner #1, who set a trash fire, didn't have adult supervision of that fire, didn't follow common sense procedure in have a plan to have water or enough foresight to predict what to do and when to do it .. if the fire got out of hand. Do you really think the neighbor next door was happy to see a bunch of kids starting an open fire?

No, I doubt very seriously that anyone should take any heat over this matter - other than the person who started the fire, let it get out of control and had foolishly thought someone "owed" him the same protection he failed to take advantage of, pay for - like any other person who placed value on prevention and protection ... instead of claiming is right to not participate in the only program which was available (subscription Fire fee) .... just like the rest of the responsible home owner decided was how their rural area would handle fire services. How close was the neighbors house to the original fire is a consideration that needs to be determine.

As is often quoted when authorities do something questionable - lets not rush to judgement, gather all the facts before judging the situation ... determine what would be reasonable, legal and prudent, at worst - was it within Guide lines.

I seldom stand on the side of "authorities" ... but this case clearly rest on the inaction, a trail of blatant and serial inaction, on the part of the property owner in defence of his own property.

Unless you are a illegal immigrant nothing is free in this country. This family knew it, they rolled the dice and lost. We are paying for obamas stupid agenda and the illegals, now we have to pay for others when they choose not to pay. He made a choice, he knew the rules and now he paid the consequences.

Absolutely! If there is concern that letting people pay on the spot would result in them not paying the annual fee, then create a "failure to pay" fine that's high enough to encourage them to pay the fee rather than face the fine.

It's completely ridiculous for a public service to allow loss of property and possibly loss of life over a $75 fee. But it shows the ethics of government. As Thomas Paine put it, "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."

So, firefighters should risk their lives for free to save cats?

They do that for a living. If you don't pay, how can you expect them to risk their lives to save your cats and dogs?

If they do that this time, then all the residents who WERE paying $75 fee will see that and stop pay the fee, because now they know fire fighters will come and save them anyway whether they pay or not.

Wrong understaning here. These are privatized firemen, not pulblic servants. Not the same thing. You get what you pay for. No pay, no service. As for me, I'll take good old fashioned public service. People who serve because they believe in the public good, not money. Hard for greedsters to understand, but it does still exist in places.

Let's assume this person couldn't (or wouldn't) pay the $75 fee for services. What makes you think they would be able to pay (or want to pay) for the full cost? The fire department would drag them through collections, at the expense of the fire department, and quite possibly never be paid anything for putting out the fire. Next year, no one pays the $75 fee because they'll come and put the fire out anyway.

This way, while perhaps ethically questionable, ensure the survival of the fire department. Survival, sometimes, outweighs ethics.

It's a cruel world we live in, digitalsatori, and I understand what you're saying about survival versus ethics. It's a shame, though, that something as crucial as fire control be subject to that particular natural law.

This also comes down to the father and his commitment to his family. If there is a service that you pay $75 a year for to protect your house, posessions, family, anything, in the event of a fire and you don't pay.. it all falls on you should anything happen.

The service was offered, he didn't pay so he should not receive the service. He was outside of the county so he doesn't pay county taxes, thus the need for the fee.

Morally yeah the firefighters should have helped, am I going to put that weight on their shoulders.. hell no. The service was there, he didn't pay. As I stated before, its his duty as a father, husband, protector to do everything he can to ensure everything is taken care of. The weight of the world is now on his shoulders and its his fault.

awfton said, "As for me, I'll take good old fashioned public service. People who serve because they believe in the public good, not money. Hard for greedsters to understand, but it does still exist in places".

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I agree with you 100%. I'll take good old fashioned public service over privatized service any day.

@digitalsatori, agreed.

It seems to me that it's more ethical to ensure that the neighbour still has fire coverage for when there actually is a baby trapped in a house (there wasn't here) than doing one guy a favour, saving his stuff and maybe endangering the future of the fire service as a whole.

In this case what's ethical isn't just being nice to one guy. It's ensuring that you still have the ability to save everyone else the next day.

I wasn't at this one, so I can't talk about what could have been done to save what, by the time they got there. I will tell you though, that as a firefighter, if there were a person in there, and any chance that they could still be alive, guys would have gone in. For a pet? No. No responsible professional or even a well trained volunteer, risks his or her life for an animal.

I'm surprised his insurance company did not require him to pay the fee. Or more likely, they did require it, and he ignored that. That is the system they have there. Fire Service is incredibly expensive by it's very nature. Every community decides on it's own what trade-offs to make. He could have had a sprinkler system installed. He could have paid the very cheap fee..which is what I would have done. He gambled and lost. Are you willing to cover every gamble someone else chooses to take?

If I ever build a house in the country, you can bet your buns it will be sprinklered. Even with fire service, chances are good that in a fire, by the time the response gets to some rural area, without an in-place water supply, the place will be totally engulfed before anything can be done.

I wasn't at this one, so I can't talk about what could have been done to save what, by the time they got there. I will tell you though, that as a firefighter, if there were a person in there, and any chance that they could still be alive, guys would have gone in. For a pet? No. No responsible professional or even a well trained volunteer, risks his or her life for an animal.

I'm surprised his insurance company did not require him to pay the fee. Or more likely, they did require it, and he ignored that. That is the system they have there. Fire Service is incredibly expensive by it's very nature. Every community decides on it's own what trade-offs to make. He could have had a sprinkler system installed. He could have paid the very cheap fee..which is what I would have done. He gambled and lost. Are you willing to cover every gamble someone else chooses to take?

If I ever build a house in the country, you can bet your buns it will be sprinklered. Even with fire service, chances are good that in a fire, by the time the response gets to some rural area, without an in-place water supply, the place will be totally engulfed before anything can be done.

You must really be in trouble if you should ever find yourself relying on the police or the fire dept; don't expect much.

The thing is everyone keeps talking about putting the guys fire out for free. The firemen are on salary and get paid no matter what. How about all the days they didnt have to put out a fire and they just sat on their asses collecting pay. That doesn't count for anything? Like hey we didnt have to put out a single fire all last week and we still got paid. Why dont we just return the courtesy and put the damn Fire out?

Im sick of about 3/4 of the people this world produces. Those that have self-serving, greedy, entitled attitudes. If I was sitting at home and noticed my neighbors house burning I wouldn't look the other way I would go out and help them!! FOR FREE!!! I wouldn't ask for a dime before or after the fact. I would be happy knowing that stopping their fire ENSURES my house doesn't burn. If you dont share that same basic ethical philosophy it is my opinion you dont deserve to live.

I like to see the fire station burn down with them in it! Hope nobody comes to there rescue them! The greedy B@$TERD$!!!!! This is whats totally wrong with america today! Its all about greed! I am tired of it!!!!! When does it ever end?

If there ever was national disaster wether it would be another 911 God forbid. A major earthquake. Or Yellowstone blowing. Would we still get charged if we need to be rescued?

Its called insurance. That stuff for "in case @!$%# happens," you know the stuff that protects your car.

Do you believe insurance companies are greedy bastards cause you don't have insurance but wreck your car and expect it to be fixed? Maybe there was a device that would prevent the accident that you could have purchased but didn't, do you expect someone to give you the insurance at the time of the accident to prevent further damage?

If you can't understand than we have larger issues.

I am following my previous post cause I forgot to edit it.

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In addition to the insurance, to expect services from another person, to expect them to help just because your property is begin damaged, to expect someone else to risk their life for a service that you didn't pay for.. isn't that borderline entitlement and wouldn't that put someone into slave status if we all "expected" this service no matter what. You don't get a service just for existing. The services from another person cannot be forced.

Mopman Ill forget the fact that you've asked me to kill myself and family out of some twisted logic you derived from my post. Im sure someone will flag your comment and youll be banned anyway. While I realize if your a self serving greedy individual you may have been offended by my post. I never directly asked for anyone to Die, kill themselves or anyone else.

I would like to point out car insurance is a forced legal raqette. A lot of people do not claim accidents on their insurance because #1 it makes rates skyrocket #2 it is very difficult to get the insurance company to pay out anyway and when they do they want you to use thier special mechanics that cut corners and save cost.

Also the Gov. expects you to pay them taxes just for living so we are all born a "Slave" to the Gov. how could we be expected to have any other attitude about such things.

Maybe they could have put it out and billed him for the service plus some hefty premium or something. The problem is he probably wouldn't have paid that either and then they'd have to try and put a lean on his house. And 911 response is not cheap. The bill would easily have been several thousand dollars and who knows whether it would be covered by insurance. To be fair they should charge him by what fraction of the total fires in that county he was responsible for. If the fire department only handles 10 fires per year then he should personally be liable for 10% of the firefighting budget for that year. That could be as much as his house.

This is the problem with using a fee based system rather than just taxing everyone and letting people use the service when they need it. I think its kind of funny how most of the people on here seem to be dismissing the fee based system in favor of a tax based cover-everyone system but when it comes to healthcare in this country we'd rather have some complex system of fees rather than paying a little tax and never having to worry about who or what's covered. But that's most of America for you. Very generous when they see the dead bodies or whatever on their TV screens but when it comes down to actually solving any of the complex problems that cause these things, their attention span has long been exhausted. That's why anyone can walk into an ER and get top notch care regardless of whether or not they can pay, but for preventative stuff that will save your life (but isn't an emergency) like cancer screenings you're on your own.

Guito, I'm glad you enjoyed my post. I got a lot of self satisfaction out of it. Unlike most others I am a little more sadistic, I honestly couldn't care less.

I will point out that claiming that auto insurance is a legal raqette seems to be nothing but an excuse. Yes insurance goes up, if that's the case than should have had a difference insurance provider. But the thing to take away from that, its a service, paid for and can be used at any time.

Taxes by the gov't, yes I see a lot wrong with it but on the other side of the coin, every single American uses substitutes every single day. Someone has to pay for those and its us, the people who use the services that are subsidized.

If you want to have a debate about professions that include a level of servitude right now, or ones that will have it in the future I'd be more than happy to provide amusement.

Disagreeing with taxes or fee based services, its everyone's right but doesn't provide any foot hold when things come crashing down.

mopman411 I'm pretty sure telling anyone to hop into a car and drive off a cliff or kill themselves as you did is a clear violation of the CoH policy Newsvine enforces.

Ok one more time the fire men weren't there. They were not dispatched. And stop with the ethical and christian remarks. Where are your ethics and christian attitude when some one gets hurt and the insurance does not pay for care because they were working off coverage? Do I see you ponying up the hundreds of thousands of dollars for a poor rural fireman who did the "right and Christian thing"? And do I see you buying tires, fuel, hoses, paying electrical bills etc? As far as what the county collected...Hmm ever heard of infrastructure? IE Roads, police, insurance costs (yup counties pay them too)

They are not private....the fire department is a CITY department that contracts their services out to those living outside of the city limits. As I posted above, did they send out annual statements, and reminders if it wasn't paid on time? Are any county taxes used to support the purchase of fire equipment?

Clayton, yes they were there, they showed up only after the fire spread to the neighbor's property. The neighbor who did pay the fee instructed them to put the house fire out instead since it was just the neighbor's field that was on fire, but the firemen refused and sprayed down the fence and the field and stood and watched as the house of the one who didn't pay went up in flames. So yes they do deserve all the public shaming and have violated whatever ethics and sense of decency, that they supposed to uphold.

Ruilt Wolfrick

mopman411 I'm pretty sure telling anyone to hop into a car and drive off a cliff or kill themselves as you did is a clear violation of the CoH policy Newsvine enforces.

Cry me a river. My opinions are something that I am completely entitled to, I don't care what you think and what your opinions are on anything that I say(type).

they do deserve all the public shaming and have violated whatever ethics and sense of decency

You said that the firefighters deserve all the public shaming and they violated ethics and a sense of decency. The question is whose ethics and sense of decency? Yours? I don't think yours matter very much when there is a document trail that says the fee was not paid to have the city fire department dispatched to fight a fire that is outside of city limits. Just as with insurance, protecting you in case @!$%# happens, they cannot be held responsible when @!$%# does happen. The fee for protection and aid in the event of a fire wasn't paid. Plain and simple.

Re: a late fine. Yes, I think they would be making more money that way over the year also. It would be a wise way to deal with this problem and meet everyone's needs, the immediate goal being to save lives and property which is priceless at the time of the emergency. This is why ER charges more... this is a humanitarian and fair solution...a late fine and reimbursement in a private volunteer service, when requested and agreed to by the home owner, is appropriate ethically and is also just following good old fashioned common sense. Also, wouldn't that compensation come from the homeowner's insurance? Either way, insurance or none, the higher late fee should be a priority pay back.

You forget the South Fulton Fire Department has NO JURISDICTION outside city limits. They CANNOT mandate someone accept their services, thus the subscription service. that means you cannot charge someone a penalty for not accepting your service.

If they had accepted the $75 fee at the time of service, that would have undermines the entire point of a subscription service and sent a message to other residents that they only need to pay when and if they have a fire.

Since fire crews generally don't travels with lawyers or legal teams to draw up contracts or estimators to estimate the cost of fighting a fire and home owners whose homes are on fire also don't generally have lawyers on hand to consult, on the spot contracts don't work. Contracts signed under distress (house on fire) are generally unenforceable.

The difference between an ER or other life saving service is implied consent. Had there been someone in that house, it would be implied that the victim would want to be saved. When you go to the ER it is implied you are authorizing any necessary medical attention. If your ailment is not life threatening, you still need to authorize medical attention.

The subscription represents a fee for a contract authorizing South Fulton Fire Department onto the property since they have no legal jurisdiction in these areas. Without it, in advance, they're hands are legally tied.

Also, keep in mind, a Fire Chief is, in limited capacity, a law enforcement officer and a fire department is a limited branch of law enforcement. They simply cannot march onto your land without either an emergency (a fire contained not threatening human lives doesn't constitute an emergency), a warrant, Routine mandated inspections, or express consent.

Mike, bravo on your post. I believe that the legal term you speaking of in the last part is called Due Process. You're very well spoken sir. I agree with you completely.

Amen! You said it. This is horrible and the mayor and the firefighters should all be fired! And now, I have no desire at all to go to the state of Tennasee if this is how they treat their own residents....imagine how I might be treated as an outsider, probably in the say way as the cats and dogs in the fire!! Left to burn!! So my planned trip to the state will be cancelled!!!!!!!

It is a very sad day when we as humans don't step up to the plate and do what is ethically and morally right due to money, and especially $75.00. What if it was a new resident to the area that was renting that house and wasn't aware of the $75.00 fee? And next time, will the firefighters let a baby or children burn because the $75.00 fee wasn't paid????

With the economy today there are people out there really suffering finding it hard to just afford groceries, never mind good health care and other necessities. Who knows this man's situation, $75.00 for some is a real hardship, maybe that is why he didn't pay it or forgot, because he just didn't have the money?? Possible, right?

I hope the firefighters can sleep at night and not imagine how they would feel if this was their house and their family and their pets. But if nightmares prevail during their slumber, well then, as the criminal justice world would say...."they got their just dessert".

I totally agree! Time for the state to take out the garbage and find a new mayor and fire department. They need to take responsibility, change laws and try to make it right.

As a resident of Tennessee, I can assure you that these people do NOT hold the same values as most Tennesseeans. This story absolutely sickens me. I couldn't believe this was happening in my home state. Were these people not raised to help each other and look out for their neighbors? I can understand charging a fee, but I cannot understand refusing service because someone has not paid it. Provide a service, then provide a bill for that service. What's next, police coverage?

America has gotten to where it is today by Americans taking care of Americans. We are all brothers and sisters and we need to look out for one another.

I COMPLETELY agree! We as Americans need to take back our country and restore old fashioned values while embracing modern age technology. This is something that is SO terrible! I am VERY sorry he lost his pets, but I am THANKFUL that nobody was trapped in the house. I must say however, he really should have been more careful and burned his own garbage instead of letting his son do it, and made sure before he did that, that he had a fire extinguisher or hose on the ready just in case...things do happen and they are called ACCIDENTS for a reason. Also, things really need to be standardized across the board so that you get equal service no matter WHERE in this county, city, state or country you are in. Bureaucracy needs to go...it serve NO useful purpose but to get in its own way!

This is an outrageous and callous act, whoever was responsible for it has brought nothing but shame on their community. This is exactly the type of unfortunate event which will be read by good people all over the world and they will consider themselves fortunate not to reside in a municipality where it could happen to them.

Wrong...

Not all places - all over the world - have Fire Departments. And in many of them, they too have fee structure, since the population doesn't see ther value (as did this individual) of paying taxes or fees for fire protection.

The fact is, this man lived in a rural area and like a lot of others who value their independence above all elsem has strong feelings about being help for ransom, the "Governement". You shouldn't be surprised at the resistance, smoldering anarcy that permieates some rural areas - that why people move out of the cities, they are not all that social in the first place.

Think about the fact that the victim didn't call - until the house was involved in flames, He could have put the call in much earlier, before it even reached his house, much less the home of the property owner next to him.

Seems, since the fire started on his land, his neighbor was ... more or less ... releuctant to call for the fire service he was entitled to until it crossed over and threatened his home/structures. Courtesy or caution - either way, the actions of the non-paying home owner directly contributed to the fire reaching the second property.

Firefighters were not dispatched to the first house. END OF STORY.

County voters have voted down the county wide tax for fire fighting services 3 times.

He should have had water present and adult supervision of a child burning trash...it boils down to the man was negligent in everything leading up to the fire. put blame where it belongs and start with the homeowner and how the fire started. By the way home owners insurance wont pay for fires caused by negligence. He is really out of luck.

Yes. I had this same thought. Many times a levee/tax is voted down in a local precinct or county by the citizens who are misinformed or impoverished. You see this quite often with things for local schools that are badly needed or for roadwork, etc., and yet the citizens will not allow two cents more on their property tax for this or that thinking it is either BS that goes into someone's pocket, or not that important. As for safety items, it is clearly penny wise and pound foolish to neglect something like basic law enforcement, emergency or fire services.

This is what the fire chief was saying, that he wanted the citizens to stand up and change the current rules in place. The firefighters had created a proposal that was not accepted, and he did not agree with the current fee set up, yet explained he had to work with what they had been dealt with. It is frustrating because he finds himself sandwiched (middle management) between the elected officials, city council, and the voters on this.

This issue needs oversight from the Governor and the state superior courts to be changed by law to provide an adequate regional fire tax to be added to the property tax for each homeowner. Seventy five dollars should never dictate the ruin of a Seventy five thousand dollar home and all of the family items of personal meaning and value that can never be replaced within it.

As for living things, this is priceless and beyond money. Living beings feel pain, I would hate to feel that death, wouldn't YOU??? Do you not think a mammal feels pain like you? Although they do not cry or talk, they also have feelings just the same. I have never understood the lack of compassion people have and even with other humans, cannot have an understanding of what if that was ME??? Our values are way off here ethically. We have really lost it as far as our reputation as a caring and compassionate country goes. Where is our understanding of these things, are our children not learning this in our communities, are we really becoming this alienated?

This is a huge psycho- social problem if so. Children learn their parent's hang ups, digest them and behave them as they adopt them. They know no other way. Learning goes on continually at home and at school...its whatever they are exposed to and whatever they witness. Mostly though, as mentioned, this is a moral and ethical problem. It's heartless and cruel to stand by as others die when something could be done...now if they got there after the structure had burned it was impossible to save the animals, but it is still wrong, to ever wait in an emergency when seconds can determine a life being saved or not!!! Does a lifeguard wait to get permission if someone is drowning? Life is precious!

Charging later would have been the obvious way to go or having set aside an emergency charity fund to buffer for this. Any local church congregation could have set aside seventy five dollars of offerings toward this!!! Some taxes are necessary for good reason, this fire protection is one of them. Why? Because you as property owners are all equally invested, prepared and protected, period. There is no room for the hypocracy of haves vs have nots here. It is a matter of life or death. You cannot say that some do not have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness which requires health. This goes beyond politics, it is a basic health issue which affects all.

Voting against your own protection is really careless. Everyone who votes or is a homeowner/taxpayer is responsible here on the local level, this is not a right or left thing, it is a practical survival and safety thing so get involved local citizens and be voting and attending council meetings on this, and that goes for all small towns USA! Hold your local reps and law enforcement, fire, postal etc. workers accountable to be prepared for emergencies. No one should ever be left out in this case of basic services. No one.

If you have dogs and cats that you feed, you are not paying for the basics. ( I feel you should take care of yourself first and not be a burden to others and when you have accomplished this then you can take care of others and pets)

I am sympathetic to those living in poverty and I help those in need monthly. It is up to family, friends and neighbors to help those in need. I do not feel that if you do not pay for a service that you should get it for free.

I guess you have never been in a situation to ask for a hand out. People make choices based on the circumstances at the time, the conditions they live in are accumulative. How many times have you not paid a bill because other basics are more important, and then forget? Animals give people the love and companionship in good times and bad. Where is your empathy? Why do you give to those in need? Judge not, lest you be judged.

To Little Toe - It doesn't say that he got the cats and dogs after reaching financial hardship. Could have been fine, and then affected by unemployment in the more recent years.

To Little Toe.......

REALLY?????? "You are sympathetic to those living in poverty"????? REALLY???? So I guess you would have let the pets burn too....since he shouldn't have had them in the first place because he is poor? OMG!!!

Obviouly YOU have never lived in poverty??? And like others have pointed out, the pets could have been before reaching financial hardship? Who knows what this persons situation was. For some elderly people who have no family left, it is the love of a pet that keeps them going and many are on a fixed budget. Guess you never had a pet to love in your life either?

The guy lives on a farm out in the country......more than likely they are strays he took in....caring for someone else s deserted animals...and then he is treated like this......SHAME

I understand both sides of this argument, but I still can't imagine just letting someone's home burn if something can be done about it. Maybe this man really forgot to pay (??). I doubt it, but how would I know?

Assuming the 911 dispatcher or fire department have a list of residents who did not pay the fee (otherwise how would they know), what if there was a mistake? What if it had turned out that it was in fact a neighbor that hadn't paid the fee, and someone got the name (Smith, Jones) or the address incorrect? And, since you can't get back into your burning house to prove that you did in fact pay the fee, then what?

The blame lies with the home owner. Burning trash without proper and adequate water present to douse stray sparks is stupid. Allowing a minor to burn trash unsupervised in a rural area, is stupid. Forget the poverty thing.

Forgert the firefighters, they werent dispatched so the house was burning out of control when they arrived. Dont "big city" and "paid" firefighters make decisions to let structures burn when there is no safe way to extnguish them? YES.. Sometimes, it is a homeowners fault and they play the media card for support and sympathy. His insurance will not pay, becasue it was human error that started the fire to begin with. Now he is negligent and needs a new house.... guess he needed to pay more attention to his grandchild.

Wow Clayton, you make scary sense. I'm not thrilled they stood and watched his home burn (controlled burn) but honestly, he did have an obligation to pay just like everybody else. The point about his ins. co. a few comments ago, requiring his receipt of this payment for coverage? Sounds logical.

This is exactly why a tax is needed. To take away the blame, the haves and have not hypocritical attitudes and to provide a solid uniform and equal contribution amount and fair share to all homeowners/citizens/taxpayers in the region.

Your theoretical problem on the right is this. You are pointing at this thing you call the government. You must ask what and who this is. It is management by the citizens, it is you and you and you. Not some thing out there. Get with it and participate, if you don't like something go to the local council meeting or report a danger you see. Vote in an informed way. To vote against a levee that raises everyone up a few cents for basic emergency services for the region is wrong and careless. Local survival and emergency preparation concerns are not political right or left, they are basic health issues that affect all on the local level. No one should be left out on this.

What goes around comes around, always has and always will.

If you think that allowing a person's home to burn is the appropriate way to make the point that in a county where there is a fee for fire protection that you had best pay or else, you are certainly entitled to that opinion.

You are even entitled to enjoy it if you like, and to make cute comments about the predicament of someone this happens to. Whatever makes your boat float.

Just remember that the same standard that you apply to others will one day be applied to you.

I live in "poverty" thank you, and I don't forget to pay important things, he had an agreement and didn't follow his part. Thank you for proving just how much Americans keep distancing themselves from the reality which is self-responsibility.

@ Jareth

Many older citizens are on a fixed income retired and live on a few hundred a month, let us look at it this way. In the old times, they did not have homeowner's insurance for covered wagons did they? Nah. If your wagon train was attacked and your covered wagon burnt and some of your relatives killed, the difference would be what? That the guy a couple covered wagons down the line who is your friend and who was fortunate enough not to have suffered the same tragedy, would take your belongings that were left, which wouldn't be much, and you plus another couple living family members who had survived, perhaps injured, and his wife would help nurse them and feed them and take you onto his covered wagon to continue rather than abandoning you in the wilderness. Right? This is basic common sense, for survival. Lets face it, crap happens and when it does it happens fast. So, yes, it is good to be prepared the best we can, but sometimes it goes beyond our preparations and reasons and everything else. Self responsibility is hard if you find yourself injured and in danger...you need help. Not everything is in your control or your fault and sadly to say, God's hands do not always magically appear at the critical moment and pick you up.

That is why we must help each other and have a back up plan or a charity, or a tax ahead of time that covers everyone fairly and provides a wage for our emergency services workers and their necessary tools and materials. The common funds in our communities and in the outlying areas would be put toward the need to build a small fire station or have a fire hydrant or two put in near homes, etc.. Again, this goes beyond partisanship, or blame. It is a basic safety, and survival issue.

Actually I think the town supports them in this matter.

Had there been people inside they would have been rescued, however there were not. My thing is the people were home when the fire started, they started it, why didn't they get their animals out? I have been around the Fire Service for many years and a house doesn't burn so fast that you can't run inside and grab your animals when you see the fire start. Why didn't they have a water hose run out to where they were burning. That way when the fire started to spread they could have put it out. This particular fire department receives no money from this individual since he does not live in the town limits. He knows that he has to pay the yearly fee, and yet decided not too. The neighbor paid his fee therefore his property was saved. Why should the fire starter get to use the fire service for free, when if everyone else was like him there wouldn't be one to begin with.

joanne...He did not refuse to pay. He missed one payment. These people are talking about 'personal responsibility'. If he had moved to a better part of town, to an expensive home and lived on credit cards, rather than living within his means, this would not have happened.

If you are poor and try to live how dare you. Its all about the money.

Personal responsibility? Even, for the sake of argument, if someone doesn't have compassion for the guy who was supposed to pay the fee - what would they do in the case of children in the house who aren't responsible for the fee? Or renters whose landlord was supposed to but neglected to pay the fee? Or NEIGHBORS who DID pay the fee but whose house was damaged, even though the fire dept responded but too late because they failed to put the fire out at the start and it spread???

Woe to the country who does NOT stand up for your neighbors, this was so wrong in all areas. This is still America, and to the firefighters and the major Time To step Down.

No fiesta this is not America anymore. It is the United Corporate States of Profit! Ruled by greed and lead by lies.

I pitty this greedy country!

I pity those of us whom aren't greedy and are forced to live here.

Ill justify it all day long. These pigs should have put out the fire and saved the house and animals, instead this will backlash on ALL fire departments in the country, like when they stand in car lines asking for change to pay for stuff. Bad move on their part. Its not hard to put the fire out and then charge DOUBLE for not paying it in the first place. Just that simple.

And you didn't cover the fact that he agreed to pay right then and there and they refused... bottom line? NO EXCUSE FOR PISS POOR BEHAVIOUR..

Do you also propose to let someone die because they can't pay the doctor? What the hell are our Income taxes for? Our sales taxes for? It's pay and pay and pay and then too bad if you just don't have the money to pay any more? Just remember, what goes around......

fool you are a caveman this is barbaric. what are u goin to say to god when u pass oh he din't pay me 75 dollars so i let his house and pets burn to the ground cause i swore to protect only those who pay me money. god would prob reply with oh i only help those who help others fool ur goin to hell bye bye!!!!!!!

Caveman

In Tennessee when you live within city limits you pay personal property tax for the city and for the county. When you live in the county you pay personal property tax for the county only. Fire departments in rural areas can only survive with their fire department fees and 99% are volunteers. Who pays for the trucks? Who pays for the hoses? Who pays for the gas for the trucks?

People want it for free and we need to learn that nothing is free. Everything has a price. If you want television pay the cable bill. If you want cell phone then pay the cell phone bill. If you want fire protection then pay the fire department. But there is a magic line here that the fire department could be held culpable if insurance premiums for the home were based on fire protection. Is there emergency responder / EMS /ambulance. If someone died the members of the fire department would scatter like bugs.

Caveman the firefighters could have hooked up the hose and turned on the water without much further exertion on their part, not going into the house and just standing outside pointing the hose toward the house. That, at the very least, was what they should have done. They could and should have the option to charge the homeowner an inconvenience fee for not having paid the original $75.
The arguement you try to make in Question 2 is irrelevant and does not parallel with this event. This is tantamount to utility companies turning off services of poverty stricken residents during months of extreme weather.

Also, it says he didn't pay it this year. That makes me believe he has paid it in other years. Don't judge the guy without knowing all the facts. I understand rural fire departments need funding but it's not like he was shafting him for the past 10 years.

The key is, they were next door and blatently stopped at the property line. Regardless of the 911 operator, that was simply inhumane. The chief that got his a$$ kicked? Got off easy.

The government takes hard earned tax payer money everyday and puts into the pockets of people who don't work! People who will not work, if you give them a job.

So, somewhere down the line, the fire department has gotten their money. Does this fire department not receive any money from taxes? They had the responsibility to put out the fire and the dispatcher should have given out the call.

Who wants to live in a county that picks and chooses who to help and who to leave helpless.

Got to agree with Caveman. Lived in rural TN a long time, I NEVER forgot to pay my fire protection subscription fee. People love to think "oh, it will never happen to me" but it does. And a lousy $75/yr to purchase protection is a small price to pay for the "what if." Chances are, the firemen were not covered if they responded to a house not subscribed. I hate the fact that his pets were killed but the homeowner cheaped out and did it to himself. Stop blaming the fire department and put the blame where it really belongs.

Half of the white house administration didn't pay their taxes, i hope they are denied services when the time comes ;)

your assuming he paid the last ten years.. sounds like from his interview it happened once before with his son and the fire department bailed them out. guess he didn't learn then. that only further proves the point that he was probably banking on not having to pay the fee unless he had a fire.

If everyone knew you could just pay a couple hundred dollars if they had a fire, nobody would pay the fee then there would be no fire department.

Sickofthis123

Paying double once wouldn’t begin to pay for anything towards what the annual $75 brings in.. I assume your not about risking your life daily for someone who cant even be bothered to pay $75 for you to run into a burning building to save the stuff you set of fire.

mssuzieq

you too seem to be missing the point. If you can pay $75 in the off chance you have a fire, why would anyone pay annually? They wouldn’t. There wouldn’t be a fire department. If he wants his taxes to pay for it, he should live in the city and actually pay taxes for it.

Garry-2455779

Your arguing a non issue. There wasn’t anyone in the house. No one died. Find a different forum. Besides I though I was now paying taxes for everyone without a job to go to the doctor now.. when I get sick I can’t go to a doctor, I have to be a work.

THISWORLDWILLBURNINHELL

I think god could say something like I help people who help themselves!?!? I would imagine when the firefighters, if they swore an oath, swore to protect the citizens of the city. Not the people who are too cheap to pay for what they feel entitled.

Sawdusty1

You make sense, I like you.

jmom-1225464

if the "victim" didn't pay a 75 dollar fee what makes you think he would make the payments required for a "inconvenience fee". not to mention, if this "fee" existed, no one would pay the $75. the "inconvenience fee" would be raised to cover the cost that was shared by everyone. so you would get your house fire put out, but you would be in so much debt you couldn't afford the house that was saved.

reference your electricity argument, if you can’t afford electric bills, you shouldn't be in your house. you should be out looking for a job.

ricky-271855

your argument is based on the assumption that he paid the last ten years. I would bet that if he didn’t pay this year, his son didn’t pay the year before, then its probably an ongoing problem. I hold that assuming things makes an ass out of you an me. (say the last sentence out loud to get the full affect)

I think you have serious problems if you think the chief getting assaulted was getting off easy. man A does a job, man B doesn't like the way that man A did his job, so man B should get to physically assault man A? Maybe someone should come assault you for being stupid. is that fair? I think not.

I could type more but like I said I work. Pulled a 13 hour shift, had errands to run and now have to be back at work… no sleep for 24 hours. Hey guess what I live across the street from the city limits. I have to pay a yearly fee to get fire service. Guess who doesn’t “forget” to pay that bill. I’ve lived here for several years and never had a fire. But your all right, I should pay my fee every year so that retard who keeps burning down houses can get fire service for free.

learningfrommistakes

Paying double once wouldn’t begin to pay for anything towards what the annual $75 brings in.. I assume your not about risking your life daily for someone who cant even be bothered to pay $75 for you to run into a burning building to save the stuff you set of fire.

Daily? I dont think this is daily. I think even going to the house in the first place to stand there and not do anything to prove a point is criminal. You spit out all these "told-ya-so" comments when if this were your family then you would be up in arms. ( I already know your going to say "well I would pay my fire protection if that were the case"....of course thats easy to say in hindsight). Lets go ahead and start denying medical care to ALL people who have ANY balance with out healthcare system. Lets turn away the elderly and children because their parents or caretakers couldnt pay a bill, much like the pets in the home. The answer is to help and then fine double, triple or whatever to get the point across. Its absolutly absurd, and your apathetic remarks are sickening. I seriously hope something bad happens to you or yours and I hope that people don't help you when they COULD have.

So the next time we see someone in trouble or about to be injured, we should now stop and check our insurance policy to find out if we should help. I hope all of you here who agrees with these so called firefighters, never get in a situation where you need help from anyone.

again you bring people suffering into the picture to make my point invalid. there were no people in harms way. it was his property he didnt' care to "insure" by paying a fee.

what if the fee cost more then the house and property inside. then you would be upset the firefighters tried to collect their fee.

i think the no pay no service got the point across. i wonder howmany people will "forget" to pay this upcomming year.

i could be wrong but i bet houses across the nation daily. a lot of times theres nothing that can be done even if firefighters give it their all. i don't hear your bleeding heart for them.

HUMAN LIFE IS NOT THE SAME AS AN ANIMALS. in some cases sad but true.

i liked your hate filled section at the end. luckily i normally help myself. and your wrong about this part ->( I already know your going to say "well I would pay my fire protection if that were the case"....of course thats easy to say in hindsight). <- i already paid it.

wishing you and yours the best.

again you bring people suffering into the picture to make my point invalid. there were no people in harms way. it was his property he didnt' care to "insure" by paying a fee.

Oh so we should expect fires everyday? So what your really trying to say is that he started his own housefire so he has to deal with the consequenses of his actions by having his house burn down? Would you suggest that he use his standard anti-house-fire garden hose attached to almost evey house? Since the firefighters have all the equipment should he have called home depot instead?

what if the fee cost more then the house and property inside. then you would be upset the firefighters tried to collect their fee.

Here in my town, firefighters walk around with boots hoping that people will donate to their station and you know what? I ALWAYS donate. ALWAYS. Like I said, if they were really strapped for that cash they wouldnt have GONE out there in the FIRST place

i think the no pay no service got the point across. i wonder howmany people will "forget" to pay this upcomming year.

Oh yeah. I can see the campaign now; "Pay us the 75 bucks or we will let you bitches buuurrrnnn!"

i could be wrong but i bet houses across the nation daily. a lot of times theres nothing that can be done even if firefighters give it their all. i don't hear your bleeding heart for them

Excuse me? So your off topic with that and all of a sudden im a heartless person?

HUMAN LIFE IS NOT THE SAME AS AN ANIMALS. in some cases sad but true.

yes, we are biologically different, nice of you to point that out but compassion applies to all living things.

i already paid it.

What a good citizen.

wishing you and yours the best.

You too

I would suspect you have insurance you pay for your vehicle. Do you expect to have an accident every day? I hope not.

Im very saddened that you don’t see the logic behind the choices that were made regardless if you agree with them or not.

I would suggest that he make it a priority to take responsibility for his life by making sure his family is safe. IE PAY THE FEE.

The reason that they cant accept payment day of the fire is because if they did no one would pay until their house caught fire. <- understanding this is important to see why things happened the way they did.

From what I understand from the article and the video clip, the firefighters did not respond to the residence until some who had the foresight to pay for unlimited firefighter service had property in danger of fire. They paid, hence the response to the residence.

Your dramatized campaign is correct. The whole purpose of the fee is to ensure the fire department can operate. If you don’t pay you don’t get service.

My comment about the bleeding heart never said you were “heartless”. But that fires do in fact happen “DAILY”. It is impossible to know what would have happened if the firefighters did respond against orders. The house might not have been able to be saved. And if it could have been with the fire department responding from a town away, then it was not so severe that the homeowner could not get the animals out.

So your saying if the house is fully engulfed in flames and you were in charge of the fire department, you would send one of your men, ((or women)possibly someone’s father, husband or son)into a death trap to save a cat. I would hope not.

So I ask would you order a group of men into a burning building to save a cat?

What if it was children in the house instead of pets? Would your response still be "But that's the choice he made by not paying the $75, right?" ???

It doesn't matter how irresponsible the owner was. The fire fighters still had a duty to try to put out the fire. They made no effort.

learningfrommistakes- It has nothing to do with logic; it is pure emotion. Everybody is crying, "Oh this poor guy; the fire department is curel and inhumane!" They fail to see that this guy deliberately gambled his house against a $75 fee he knew full well was required for coverage (the system has been in place for 20 years). He probably used the money to buy beer and cigarettes. Don't worry though, he'll probably end up getting rich off all the donations he'll get from all the bleading hearts who feel sorry for his irresponsible a$$. It is no wonder nobody accepts responsible for their own actions any more. It is easier to pass the blame and throw yourself a pity party.

In cognito

There weren’t children in the house. So your statement has no merit, but of course im not for the loss of human life. One of the first few questions a dispatcher would ask would be is there anyone inside the fire. – The answer to this question determines how fast , or what “code” the fire fighters respond.

Focus on the story as it happened. Quit trying to “What If” the situation to make the fire department sound inhumane. THERE WERE NO “LIVES” LOST THAT THE FIRE FIREFIGHTERS WOULD HAVE TRIED TO SAVE REGUARDLESS OF THE SITUATION. THEY…..DON’T…..ENTER….HOUSE…..FIRES….TO…..RESCUE….PETS….

artistfloor9

could you please find me some evidence of the duty/responsibility/lawful requirement you speak of. They have no more duty to respond to his particular land owners property to put out the fire, then they have to respond to a different state and put out fires for them.

From hearing the interview it sounded like this exact same event happened to his son a year ago. Like father like son????? sounds like people were already not starting to take the Fire insurance seriously.

As for the irresponsibility part why should firefighters risk there lives for someone’s PROPERTY - IE MATERIAL POSSESSION NOT LIFE. Ill borrow a page from In cognito and add a “WHAT IF”….what if the fire was caused due to the meth lab he had a brewing in his trailer? Would your heart bleed still?

Firemen really, really don't need to run into burning buildings because of a duty that only exists in your own head. If you're so keen you can go in first.

steviesteveo

i agree.

your comment gave me a funny idea. maybe the option they could have had was if you don't wanna pay when we ask. when you have a house fire, you can rent our equipment. ONE suit for $75 for one day. then you can risk your life for your pets you couldn't pay for in the first place.

PPinLA,

You are so quick to judge, I suppose using your own morals. This man was offered help from Keith O and his viewers and he refused saying he had to discuss with his family, since he has always worked for everything he has. God forbid this man made an error or just did not have the money. I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you need help from anyone.

The fact that these sorry excuse for fire fighters did not even try to hose the house down, says a lot for our "private businesses".

joanne you are truly the moron of morons. enuf said.

your second question doesnt apply,, in an accident it all happens in an instant,, with the fire,, they could have stopped it from being a total loss

phooey'

this accident took more then 2 hours.

very long instant

i bet they would have saved them. there wasn't anyone in the house. so why should they put out the fire

Fine him to the max? He couldn't or wouldn't pay the original $75 fee; why would he be able to pay a higher fee after the fact? So then what, he owes a few thousand dollars to the fire department that he will probably never pay and the fire department eats it? It won't be long before no one pays the $75 fee knowing the fire department will put out the fire anyway. When the fees stop coming in, there won't be a fire department anymore.

Stop the liberal BS about they should provide services because he pays his taxes. So what?

Its the Obama nanny-state mentality that people should expect the government to save them.

When the Tea Party and real Republicans get in power we are going to slash services like this and lower taxes for everyone. We pay too much tax and whining liberals have weakened real Americans with all this liberal nonsense.

We will privatize medicare and put Social Security in the hands of wall street investment houses.

Privatizing these government giveaways is just the beginning!

Funds for commerce, education and the environment will go first, and we will take those saved funds and give those tax monies back to their rightful owners: the taxpayer!

Most of you just don't get it do you?

No, obviously the majority of the posts don't get it. That is what is scary! They all think the government owes them something. They obviously don't know what the proper role of government is and that is also scary.

@ Shocked&Amazed: Shame on you for thinking that people aren't responsible for their OWN choices. He had choices. He made the wrong ones.

mambam,, time and time again you show yourself to be a moron,,, considering there is no alternative to firefighters(see monopoly) this breaks down to greed.they were already ther,, already spraying water.

call me crazy but, i dont think a mans home is a fair trade for $75

he missed one payment

he offered to pay on the spot

they let his house burn out of spite.

the man isnt short on money plenty of insurance, they flat out said we dont need help. read EVERYTHING. life is hectic theres dozens of bills and responibilities a parent has.

stuff happens,, do the right thing ill bet the firefighters at 9/11 werent checking to see if the bill was paid there.

The Gov. does owe us something do you think we give them tax money for the fun of it?

If you didn't have to drive a 4x4 to get to work... then the government is doing its job.

If you didn't get sick from eating tainted meat from the grocery store (more than once in the last 10 years) the government is doing its job,

If you don't need a passport to drive across the USA then the government is doing its job,

If you have water in the tap everyday then the government is doing its job,

if the electricity, utilites, gas, garbage is available 24/7/365 then the government is doing its job

Reminder: the point is making these services available; not "free".

... the point is, these things do cost money, and our participation in this social contract is to "Pay your fair share of taxes, fees, assessment and more important - vote when things go wrong".

Deciding not to pay, or paying "when you get around to it" ... then complaining about the services not being provided - on-time, on demand ... isn't that just a bit obscene?

Really? Are you really that big of a jerk that you would refuse the money on the spot and then let the animals die and leave children homeless? Your trolling...

Caveman, Shutup. Seriously, shutup. Your so ignorant its not even funny. Get out of America.

How do you know they spend money on pet food? Maybe they feed them the table scraps that usually go in the trash. Furthermore, what about all the pictures I've seen of firemen saving cats in trees, etc. If they can take the time to save an animal, they can surely take the time to save a persons home. Or does the $75 fee include using the equipment to climb a tree for a cat?

What was the owner driving? Did the owner have a cell phone? Cable TV?

Some people take in animals because they are homeless and hungry. Some people may be living in poverty, but at least they still have a heart.

Who says he was buying pet food. Some share their table scraps with their pets so as not to waste the food or spend extra on something that isn't wholly needed.

The point is irrelevant.. He had pets AND he had homeowners insurance but he made a human mistake and forgot to pay the bill. He offered on the spot to pay it and was refused. The firefighters AND the dispatcher were wrong. PERIOD. They had a moral obligation to respond and then hash out the details after the fact. I am the sister of a firefighter and a former police officer. I know the meaning of protect and serve but I also know the meaning of liability. Something which they are obviously about to find themselves responsible for.

There is a "Duty to Act" for public servants paid or volunteer. Issues of public safety include property and life/limb

caveman are you REALLY that dumb

Maybe the guy couldn't afford police protection which is why he had the dogs then had to decided to get ambulance service cause he did pay his home owners ins theres only so much to go around. So poor people have no right to call 911 ? if you can't pay your sol, let the kids burn

mssuzieq

they could have gotten the animals out themselves. I bet it took a while for the whole house to catch fire. Maybe the father of the children should have been a father and paid to protect his children

Sickofthis123

That’s the American way. We don’t like you. I think YOU should leave…

Sickofthis123

What about the pictures, I bet the cats were in trees located in the city. Owned by people who paid their taxes, which pay the fireman.

Also, YES, the ladder is paid for by the money the fire department gets from people who PAY!!!!!!!

mdmom-2456558

you would not believe how much an animal lover I am. I would have no problem going into my house to save my dog. I don’t care if it was on fire. Moot point really, he’s usually with me. Maybe you should be attacking the guy who didn’t pay less then 100 bucks to ensure his family and animals safety

jmom-1225464

if all they feed their animals is table scraps then their animals are going to be sick with all kinds of heath issues. People food is not animal food.

mssuzieq

how do you know it was a mistake? That’s an assumption. If you wanna play that game, I would assume the fire department sent notices about miss payments. I guess they could have been too busy begging for money with their boots at intersections. I bet your brother or sister wouldn’t have been a firefighter or police officer if he wasn’t paid. Just because your related to someone who takes on that responsibility doesn’t mean you have any idea what it means to protect and serve. PERIOD.

paperburn

DUTY TO ACT, true. Not slave. Law enforcement and fire fighters normally are paid. It’s a job. They have a boss. They have to respect orders. I bet it sucked having to choose between putting food on the table for your family or helping someone who didn’t think the service you offered was worth paying when you were allowed to accept payment.

johnf8230

at least bring something to the table. I mean come on, his opinion really has nothing to do with his intelligence. At least caveman put his thoughts out for you all to tear apart. You don’t seem to have an original thought on the topic.

ltzbonn

looks to me like your assuming he didn’t have the money. He never said that. The media is making this a “sensational” drama. They hardly included any facts at all. Looks to me like he was living in a nice neighborhood, I doubt his was a one room shanty. He got that trailer pretty quick. Also there weren’t any kids in the house. No ones life was in jeopardy. Trust me all your tax money is going to fund your police, so they can help the “poor people” who spend all their money on booze and create the problem the need the police to fix.

also it may appear that I am just standing up for caveman, in reality, I just couldn't ignore your ignorance. hope you enjoyed my opinion

@Learningfromistakes... reread it.. I am a former officer so I am accutely aware of what it means so nice try but fail.. quit trolling...

Cough...former....cough

Yep former, because of lack of pay and piss poor hours with two little kids at home.. nice try though...

Alright, if that is in fact the case, I apologize, perhaps you did know what it means to protect and serve. did you routinely fight crime out of your jurisdiction without supervisory approval?

Since your brother appears to be a fire fighter, would you send him into a fully involved fire to rescue a cat, Or someone’s TV

@Caveman: Do you live in a cave? Living in poverty in America is living in luxury to the rest of the world! LOL There are sooooooo many organizations and government agencies to the help the poor that quite often they are better off than the hard-working middle class, but that is beside the point. There were several options for this home owner to pay that fee, he CHOSE not too (well I guess now he is saying he "forgot" that will earn him a big WHATEVER in my book and no, I'm not wealthy, I struggle with the rest but I cover the important stuff.

I agree. Seriously, would you want the police to stand by and let someone rape or murder you because you did not pay a $75 fee? Really? Comparing this to car insurance and killing someone in a traffic accident, there is no comparison. This is a basic right to human life. It should be included in their taxes, something where they do not have to specifically write out a check to send to the fire department. Something has to be done to change that. That is horrid and I personally find that dispatcher to be a disgrace to the profession. We do what we can to get help to you quickly. It is not our job to pick and choose who gets services and who doesn't. This makes me furious. The Dispatcher, the Firemen, the city the Mayor, Everyone involved in this complete failure of the system is to blame and should pay a hefty price. I don't care if they were the people out of "Deliverance", they still deserve help. I don't care if they had pets. There is a flaw in this system at the government level. This isn't like paying for trash pickup, the money should have been pulled from their taxes, something. When I needed to call 911 when my daughter died, I didn't think about whether or not I had paid a fee. I just wanted someone to come help her, us. That town has a really screwed up way of doing things.

letting property be ruined is not the same as someone being physically hurt, murdered or raped. apples to oranges. if your husband wasn't paid he wouldn't work, there wouldn't be officers. you would probably get raped and no one would have the equipment or training to help.

Firefighting services aren't just for the benefit of the house that caught fire. They prevent a spread to additional houses, businesses, and lives. You want to put all those people and their property at risk because of the one guy that didn't pay a fee? It doesn't make sense to have a fee based system and refuse service to anyone that didn't pay the fee because it puts so many OTHER people at risk - people who DID pay the fee and people who are not responsible for paying the fee.

I think the story lists that the fire department did respond to the resident next door, a paying customer, when his property was threatened. So if the people keep their financial end, then their property is not a risk. the department contained the fire from other houses who had paid.

In cognito
” It doesn't make sense to have a fee based system” yeah your probably right we have no need for all this green stuff in my wallet. Should everything been controlled by the government and free? I really don’t want to include a governmental debate in this, but dang that sounded a whole lot like socialism

Learningfrommistakes

Do you just troll around everyones post and get mad at them for having compassion for the man? For not focusing on fees and money like the world and America already does? Your really showing the person behind "learningfrommistakes" is a selfish bigot. Its funny how emotional you get when talking about dead pets. I dont think you should own any animals.

im not mad, im upset that people posting cant see why things were done they way they were.

im focused on the big picture like the city planners mayors and fire chiefs.

did you take time to notice in the news interview/coverage of the event? it took over 2 hours for the house to catch fire. in two hours time they didn't think to get the animals out of the house. TWO HOURS. thats a long time for house to burn down. im very upset that the animals died. the home owner could be brought up on charges of animal neglect but i think he’s probably suffered enough.

if only someone somewhere had created a service with a minimal cost that would be able to put out fires...........................like maybe the city department could respond if the people living out of the city could pay money for them to include them in their jurisdiction.

sorry your unable to bring anything to the table that would make my logic and critical thinking invalid. good job with attacking what you perceive at my character. smear campaigns tend to work because people like you fail to see past the hype and focus on shiny things

Rural fire service areas are different. You're not paying for services al-a-carte but, you do have some additional paperwork/fees/steps (depending on the region) that you must take IN ADDITION to paying your taxes and insurance. These steps ensure service and FASTER service (so they can find you) when you live in very rural areas especially. These types of fees/forms/steps are LIKE INSURANCE, because if you don't DO them you are putting your family/property/posessions/etc. in jeapordy. These are not hidden...they're disclosed when you buy the property and you KNOW they are NECESSARY before you sign the dotted line on your mortgage papers! I feel for the family and the firefighters but, mine are PAID first with the rest of my PRIORITIES like insurance etc.

And....agree with the decsion or not...we live in the good ol USofA. If you don't like something you VOTE and/or contact your representatives and REQUIRE them to REPRESENT YOU and EFFECT change. Change the laws/rules, etc. you don't like. A law is a law...we don't have to like it but, we have to abide by it or change it!

@Learningfrommistakes: As always it is the people like Joanne and Sam and the majority of these posts that delude themselves into thinking that they are "such good people" because they have empathy for a person that is negligent and irresponsible. But, as with the majority of these people, are any one of them talking about taking money out of their own pocket to help this guy out? LOL I doubt it! They are also the same people that cannot argue facts, (because they have none) are the first people to resort to name calling and are the first to judge. It must give them some sense of purpose or make them feel good to stand on their pedastool of piety while they espouse "shock and dismay" and "feel good" rhetoric lecturing and condemning anyone who doesn't agree with them. Learning from mistakes is something all of them should be more open to. Good name and kudos on rational and reflective thinking based on more than just reactionary emotions which most of these posts seem to be.

mambatam

hey thanks, its nice to see there are some people that can look past the “feel good” answers and appreciate the long term repercussion of one’s choices and actions.

Critical thinking was one of my strong suits in grade school; however I always had problems when it came to coloring in the lines.

According to the article, he was only behind this payment. Go back and reread the WHOLE article. He didn't stand there doing nothing. He even offered to pay, when he called in and they refused. So who is to blame then?

If he had the $75.00 the day is house was burning he should have paid it the day before.

dumbass u say ur a pet owner then u should know how easily they can get spooked run and hide but i'm assuming ur fire proof so just fly through the fire and get ur pets super retard.

Judy

"This was not a new policy, it dates back 20 years. How long had he not been paying taxes and not paying his $75 fee? Also his family was the one that started the fire. How is it possible that they had time to watch the fire get out of hand call the fire department and not do a damn thing to get their pets out of harms-way?"

Your joking right? Your theory lacks evidence. The question is not how long have they not been paying their taxes or fees, but the fee was not paid . His family started the fire? So, lets say a child accidentally starts a fire, you don't deserve help? You are very quick to judge, and assume many things have happened to justify not receive any help. I hope no tragedy befalls you.

Having lived in a rural Texas town with no trash service, it was very common for us all to burn our trash. It happens quickly. It was an accident and accidents happen. So you are so perfect as to not ever had an accident of any sort? And being a pet owner, you should know that pets scatter when things get loud and crazy. My chihuahua, whom I love like one of my kids, hides behind my moms boxes as we have recently moved her in with us. I would not be able to get all those boxes down and get him out of the house if, Spirit Forbid, there was ever a fire in my home. Plus he was in backwoods, rural Tennessee. Come on, his home was probably wood in and out, you've seen "Deliverance". Seriously, the arguments for letting his home burn and animals die are lacking. You have no points, you have no valid arguments other then just plain lack of care for people. It's all about me me me. You claim to be Christian and caring, well I am not "Christian" and I have more caring in my pinkie finger then you do in your entire body....

I agree - accidents happen. That is why there should always be protection regardless of ability to pay.

Isn't it amazing lately how many so-called "christians" think it is okay to let people suffer? Whatever happened to "Love thy neighbor"? I guess that ONLY applies if they are wealthy, republican, christian and paid their fire fee huh? Are we going to start picking or choosing who to save? Based on what? Who has the final say? When did America become "The Land of the Chosen Few and the Home of the Rich"?

Hey, I'm in need of help and saving. I have this HDTV I want. It's a basic need for watching TV. Help a fellow human out... have some compassion! Oh, yeah, and my pets miss watching Animal Planet. Think of my pets! I don't want to be responsible for my own needs. That's what you're there for you good neighbor!!!

my thoughts excatly.

i agree i (used) to be a fireman

I agree with you! This is NOT the America I want to live in either. I guess hero status is only based on our ability to pay! Whatever happened to do the right thing because it is just that...the right thing?

Time for a reality check. Fire started because an unsupervised minor was burning trash outside without supervision. Can a child be blamed if they panic? Did the child panic? Did the child grab a hose and try to fight the fire? Did the man call 911 before the house was burning? Did the firefighters get there in time to do anything? (NO) not dispatched get off the fire fighters back..it was a dispatcher who did not send them...not them not responding. Was the man's house "engulfed in flames" (YES) And did the firefighters have a moral obligation to protect the neighbor when they arrived? YES the fire had already reached the neighbors proterty when the fire fighters arrived. All they could do is stand and watch.

Slow down!! Everyone jumps to conclusions so fast!!

First of all, there are rules for a reason. A fire agency cannot cover everyone, esp. in outlying areas that are far from help. That is why they offer these homeowners who choose to live that far away from services the "option" for coverage. Suppose that there is a small community with one fire engine. If that fire engine is putting out a fire at a home that did not pay their "fee" and your home is on fire (and you did pay your "fee"), wouldn't you be upset that they don't show up.

I am a career firefighter in a mid-size city where we have outlying communities. They choose to live in those areas not covered by any fire districts, but we offer them the service. Many choose to save a few bucks by turning it down, which is fine, until they need someone to help them. It happens here a few times a year. If my house burns down (I pay for service) because the city decided to send fire engines to "help" someone who they know did not pay their fee, I would be pissed off!!

There are two sides to every story...don't refer to other firefighters as "morons" when they are bound by rules for a reason.

Firefighter are bound by one rule. FIGHT FIRE. You know.. if they SEE a FIRE they put it out. Plain and simple for some folks. Ethics, morals, .. I say screw their rules if this is what happens under their said rules. Anyone who lets another persons house burn down because someone said "you can't help them" is not just a moron but also a coward on many levels.

Gee mikey should we call them "HEROS". I prefer MORONS.

I do understand the funding, we have city firefighters but alot of depts on the outskirts. The do ask for memberships, not everyone pays. Some simply can not afford too. If they are called to one that isn't paid they still perform their duties. The people are charged a higher fee. The fireman is a fireman, they shouldn't even have a list of who paid that should be the county they live ins job to collect the fee & pass it off to the dept. If two houses are on fire at he same time & they both paid which one do you let burn? What if the house that didn't pay had a child trapped inside or is $ the bottem line? it's in excusable. Fire protection, ambulance, & the police is it only for people who have $ ?

Hey dave-sunny so.cal you a firefighter, you do anything "heroic" lately? would bet not. you ever been near a house thats on fire? you have traning to keep yourself alive in a fire to protect someones crap that they paid for?

he couldn't have not paid for cable one month and paid for a year of safety from fire. you are a moron if you think the safety training, safety gear, and time of people RISKING THEIR LIVES is free. money has to come from somewhere. all he lost was stuff. his animals got killed. sad. very sad.

but yeah people doing a job you couldn't do on your best day should do it for free without the tools they need to survive. Gee you have all the answers

Blah Blah Blah..........................

hey learningfrommistakes

stop trolling

thank you

About Time

you seem to be the troll and the typical repug puke that wants everything and pay nothing attitude.

Dave, what an eloquent retort. The facts you presented completely falsify my statements.

About time- Trolling typically refers to someone posting false information. Would you kindly point out what statements I posted were false?

learning,

he couldn't have not paid for cable one month and paid for a year of safety from fire.

What proof do you have that he had cable?

Actually for those that dont know. Trolling is posting a comment for the sole purpose of getting a rise or negative response out of someone. Trolling is a precurser to a flame war which is exactly what you are doing learningfrommistakes.

You have been posting comments for the purpose of argument and your trolling has almost caused this thread to go off topic as you are now delving yourself into other peoples personal lives. Such as your previous post telling someone they know nothing about serve and protect as an ideal even though they posted they used to be a cop. You then rebutted with disbelief and it has continued from there.

Please stop trolling!! And yes technically this post is trolling I appologise but it had to be said.

it was a for example statement. he coulda clipped coupons, gotten another job. its a moot point anyway. he said himself he "forgot" to pay. that implies he had the money just didn't pay.

i just checked google, it says people can make anywhere from nothing to $100 a day to $1000 week. so instead of trading cable payments, which your right, he might not have. he could go stand on a quarter in town. write a cardboard sign that says "im out here to get money to pay my fire bill." at he would most likely have it paid for in a day.

also, i never said he had cable, only that a monthly cable bill is likely $75.

You assume much...I can tell you Mr. Troll that your posts offer nothing substantive to this topic, only derision about somebody you know nothing about. There are bound to be a myriad of reasons why this happened...namely TN is in a drought, he was burning garbage most likely because there is no garbage service out by him. My daughter lives in TN and that is quite frequent. You spew hate and show no compassion at all for somebody whose home was destroyed and his pets killed. The firemen were already there, and regardless of him missing a payment which could have been caused by having something unexpected come up that needed to be paid for which prevented him having the money for that, like a child getting injured, a mechanical issue with his car, an unexpected home repair....etc. YOU don't know the reason. Stop making judgments! You are a TROLL in that you incite anger and emotional responses that serve NO useful purpose. Now go away....

Hmm. TN is in a drought.... maybe if that is the case someone should take extra care when burning trash next to their house to have something to put the fire out before it burns for 2 hours and destroys the house and animals inside.

Everyone on the seed should go to http://abc.go.com/shows/extreme-makeover-home-edition/apply...and hope the team will give this man a new home.

Rather than fill out the application it is easier to print the article with the votes and attach it to the application. I am sure they will understand and respond.

I sent 6 copies.......Since we could not help before or during the fact, we can try to help after.

Excellent Idea! We should be doing more than just talking about it or we aren't any better then those who let it burn. If you have the time to comment here make some noise where it will do the most good! Contact abc's extreme makeover and lets get this done and make those fire-fighters look like the idiots they are!

Fletch2,

Great idea! :-)

Will you please just get teh facts straight before you begin your soapbox oratory.

1 more time for those to encumbered by their daily life to read. Fire was started by a minor burning trash outside without supervision. 911 wasnt called until fire reached house. Fire department was not dispatched to house. They were dispatched when the neighbor who had paid for services called in. When they arrived they had a moral durty to protect an intact structure from harm. The firemen did nothing wrong. If anything is wrong, look first to the homeowner for his negligence, then to the dispatcher who was following policy. The firemen did their job. They saved an intact home and property from a fire that was already consuming another home and the property it sat on. And look and see if the guy had insurance on his home..probably not. Who rebuilds his house? I dont know but homes burn hourly in the US most are total losses. Sorry for his loss, but it was human error and poor supervision that started it, and ultimately caused the family to become homeless. Just a question? Are they gonna charge the grandchild with arson? How about malicious property damage? There are laws about burning down property ..anyone thought about that?

if people were stuck in a building then you are talking about a different story.

If you want to play the hypothetical game then fine. What if I showed up and had a magical monkey fly out of my butt and rescue the people that didn’t exist, take the homeowner back in time, kick him in the balls, and make him pay his fine.

NOBODY DIED. THERE WASN'T ANYONE IN THE HOUSE.

3 lives dead! animals are LIVES!

Im sorry for not clerifying "nobody" - no person.

if you were in charge would you order somones son husband or father to their possible death to rescue a cat?

If I had already paid them a salary and there was days they had no fire to put out you bet your ass I would. They got the same pay wether they were on a fire call or not!!!!! How many days did they collect pay and never had a fire to fight?

guito7399

what are you talking about?

I am talking about the firefighter who get paid a salary. which means they get a certain amount of pay per month regardless of any other circumstances some months they most assuredly do nothing but preventive maintanace on their vehicles some months the work overtime on fires.

if you were in charge would you order somones son husband or father to their possible death to rescue a cat?

In response to YOUR question as quoted above my answer is this:

If I had already paid them a salary and there was days they had no fire to put out you bet your ass I would. They got the same pay wether they were on a fire call or not!!!!! How many days did they collect pay and never had a fire to fight?

So yes if I was in charge I and I was responsible for them recieving pay I would send any one of them into a fire to save a cat wether the owner paid a fee or not. I am a man and I stand behind my descisions good or bad. There may or may not be a GOD but if I have to justify may actions to God in the end I could give a flying F what man thinks about my actions as long as they are right in the eyes of GOD.

Someone once asked me if I believe in GOD. I replied that I was unsure. He then said well you can live your life however you want to but if you spend it believing there is a GOD and the end comes for you and you find out there isn't you lived a good and repectful life. However if you live your life like there isn't a GOD and the end comes and you find out there in fact is a GOD you will be very sorry for the way you lived. I still am unsure wether there is or isnt a GOD but you can bet when the end comes for me if I find out there is a GOD I will be happy and so will he with the way I lived my life.

Like you said If I am in charge and I send someone in to rescue a cat there is a possibility that person MAY die. If I am in charge and I dont send someone in for that cat it is guaranteed that cat WILL die. I would risk the possibiltiy of someones injury or death to prevent a gauranteed death, even if its a cat.

.

guito7399
copy and paste much?

some firemen get paid yes. these didn't get paid by the man who had the fire. you are insanely foolish to put an animals life over a firemans.

FIREMEN DON'T RESPOND INTO HOUSES FULLY ON FIRE TO RESCUE PETS.

OMG what the heck...Salary? Rural firefighters? LOL they are VOLUNTEERS PERFORMING A DUTY FOR THEIR COMMUNITY. Yes that was in caps for a reason. I want you to remember these guys are heroes, and when they finally arrived at the site, they saved a house and property from a fire that had been started by an unsupervised child burning trash. As to the firefighters:

First they have to be notified by dispatch that theere is a fire. Usually that means a beeper. They have to leave their homes, work or other places, ...drive to the fire house, get geared up, wait until they have enough crew present to roll safely, then drive a fire truck down rural roads to an area without fire hydrants, and then fight a fire with the water they have on board their fire truck. Maybe someone rolled a tanker, and that comes after the first truck leaves. Then when they get there, they have one house in flames, and another threatened by fire. What do you fight? You use your water to save the intact structure. To the people who scream cats are lives...sigh please support your local animal shelter..these lives you can save, the ones in the house ... well thats sad, but NO firefighting agency has a policy that says put human lives at risk for animals. Sorry.

@Dude: uhhhhhh - not if you pay your dues! duh!

This man's life is turned upside down becuase HE didn't pay a fee that has been in place for 20 years that he knew about. His life is upside down because as he admitted HE didn't carry enough insurance. The firemen on the scene are all following orders from their higher ups.

Those taxes are your city services taxes. Obviously they don't pay city taxes if they don't live in a city. Therefore, the nearby city whose taxpayers pay for the fire department to protect their homes offer a service for a fee. Or, do you think that because the city people pay the taxes that they should also pay for the people who don't? You haven't lived in a rural area have you? Most people in rural areas also don't pay for city sewer or garbage pickup either.

@Joanne: You are soooo amusing. Like I said "reality check" please! It amazes me that you can lecture so many people on this post when your only arguments are based on relativism. There does happen to be such things as "right" and "wrong" and "good decisions" and "bad decisions" as well as PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. Like I've said if this is so troubling for you, go make a donation. Better yet, drive on over to Tennessee and help out....better yet, bring a cat and dog with you. FYI this happens in every rural county in America!!!!!!!!

Foolkiller - I think you've pretty much summed up the insurance industry. ;)

Yes, and just think our Gov. has now given them free rein over your health too.

Fool Killer - you have nailed it perfectly!

Sounds like the old mob days when they collected insurance from shop owners for Protection. Funny, if you didn't pay the mob the protection money a shop owner may come to open his shop in the morning and find there is no shop at all, it burnt down to the ground, was trashed, robbed or all of the above.

If this theory was in practice say in the medical field for instance: an operation for a heart transplant is underway when the hospital finds out the insurance company of the patient just went belly up and no payment will be made on behalf of the patient. Meanwhile the patient is on the table, heart removed, new one in the jar waiting to be installed. Does the Dr. complete the operation and install the new heart, put back he old one or just close up the chest cavity and let the patient die? Sorry, patient dies because they just can't paid now that the insurance company is defunct. Welcome to the New America.

Rural fire department ...1 truck..no fire hydrants...limited water..ie just what they carry...by your logic the guys who fight forest fires should put them out instead of containing them. This is a smaller case but still the same logic. They did not get dispatched to the initial fire. When they arrived they found one structure in flames and a property fire that was threatening an intact home, so they elected to use their limited water to save a home that wasnt burning and to contain a fire so that it didnt spread to other areas. They did the right thing. No matter the moral outrage that seems so apparent. These guys did the right thing with what they had on the scene. The public needs to look at the homeowner that allowed an unsupervised minor to go outside and burn trash without any way to control stray embers and sparks, I have burned trash. You always keep a hose running by you so that you can put out small areas that catch on fire. It is common sense. Judging these men by the standards of a "developed" rural or urban area is stupid. These guys did exactly right and if this guy hadnt gone to the media for sympathy, he would have just been another person who was stupid and burned his own house down. Now he has exposed his negligence and stupidity on a national stage, looking for sympathy. If you all are sympathetic to this man, then feel free to send him 20 or 30 dollars.... there are enough of you who are uninformed and morally outraged to buy this guy a nice new mobile home they can pull into his property and set up for him....he can just push the old one out back.

your a retard

Flagrant COH violation. On top of that, if YOU'RE going to insult someone, have the courtesy to use proper spelling and grammar.

@Foolkiller, Sunnshyne, Pamela: OMG what can anyone say except HELP! There are brains missing or synapses are just not firing! Can you people really be this clueless? Really? Do any of you know the cost of doing business, let alone the cost of maintaining a rural fire department????? IT ALL COSTS MONEY whether you like it or not!! Someone has to pay for it? Are you?

OK, time out. This is in no way like buying insurance after a loss. Insurance repairs the damage. A fire department mitigates damage. A more accurate comparison is puting cheap gas in your car yourself (before it runs out) or paying a lot for road service because you forgot to get gas. They should have put out the fire then charged their actual expenses (plus a huge penalty, who cares?). The mayor and chief say this would result in only those with fires paying... so what's wrong with only getting paid for the work you actually do, as opposed to the work you might do?? Almosts sounds like a racket.

Wrong...

What it is .. Is like going off-roading, in a Lexus sedan, in the back country - then getting stuck off the main highway. You call the local tow truck operator and ask them to come get you un stuck. Do you have insurance? "no". Are you a member of Triple AAA? "No".

No, we can't help you. "But I'll pay on the spot".

We can't accept a promise to pay, on the spot - once we have commited to taking the job, - we have no way of insuring that you will or can pay. You could call the county, but then, they don't have a tow truck service.

Note: ever wonder what there are so many derilict cars in the desert - some have been there since the 20's and 30's...further back than even in the Dust bowl days.

THe problem with penalty's and such is that it removes anyone from ever wantnig to pay the regular fee. And why should they? the chance you'll have a fire is pretty low, so in the 10 years you live at your house and never have a fire you save $750. Which is great till you realize that the $75 fee that you pay maintains the fire station and the equipment so that the fire fighters are ready to go. No one pays = no fire station. It sucks and the way that the system set up down there is stupid for sure, but that is the way it is.

Sounds like the old mob days when they collected insurance from shop owners for Protection. Funny, if you didn't pay the mob the protection money a shop owner may come to open his shop in the morning and find there is no shop at all, it burnt down to the ground, was trashed, robbed or all of the above.

... Except in this case - the home owner, at least his family, set his own house on fire - on purpose!

The FD, did contain the fire so it would not spread off his property... that sounds fair enough to me. Everyone got what he wanted. The home owner did want fire protection - he got none. The next door neighbor wanted protection - they kept his crops, fields from being lit by embers from the idjit next door's open burn.

Everyone should have been happy.

The point is to ask, the motive behind this story ...who reported the story, and what is the purpose of the story?

disregard these morons. with these kind of blabbermouths,they have no brains, and they're always ther ones who turn into the whiners and complainers when it's on their watch.doublestandard idiots all of them. they need a good slap up the side of the head.

they would put the fire out at my house. i pay my out of city fire fee

What those firemen did goes way beyond unconscionable -- it borders on criminal, and I'm not sure the owner doesn't have a lawsuit, even if he didn't pay the fee. They let 3 pets die -- and destroyed this man's life.

Firefighters do what they do because they want to help others, regardless of the cost to them; it is part of their creed and is in their very nature.

Think of the World Trade Center: firefighters, police officers and other public servants who went to the World Trade Center went to protect the public. They acted instinctively and with the highest of motives, to help others. None of them would have willingly left the towers if they believed that they could save civilians and if they knew they needed to protect each other.

To the cowards who call yourselves firefighters: you put a red stain on all those who willingly serve their communities, paid or volunteer. And don't you ever speak of those who served and died in the WTC disaster and call them your brothers or sisters -- you are a disgrace to your profession.

What those firemen did goes way beyond unconscionable -- it borders on criminal, and I'm not sure the owner doesn't have a lawsuit, even if he didn't pay the fee. They let 3 pets die -- and destroyed this man's life.

Firefighters do what they do because they want to help others, regardless of the cost to them; it is part of their creed and is in their very nature.

Think of the World Trade Center: firefighters, police officers and other public servants who went to the World Trade Center went to protect the public. They acted instinctively and with the highest of motives, to help others. None of them would have willingly left the towers if they believed that they could save civilians and if they knew they needed to protect each other.

To the cowards who call yourselves firefighters: you put a red stain on all those who willingly serve their communities, paid or volunteer. And don't you ever speak of those who served and died in the WTC disaster and call them your brothers or sisters -- you are a disgrace to your profession.

AMEN <><<AMEN>>> AMEN>> WONDERFULLY PUT!!BLESSING TO YOU!!

24paws-896188

I will address each paragraph in order

1. First of all, Firemen are protected from civil suits by law. In most cases failure to act is not a criminal. Firemen follow orders, if they didn’t the system wouldn’t work at all. Firemen don’t go into houses on fire or fully involved to rescues pets. Sorry.
2. Firefighters couldn’t do what they do to help others if they get fired and don’t have a job for disobeying orders.
3. The world trade center had people inside. Different story, different topic, different forum. Those brave firemen DID NOT run into the trade towers because it was full of cats and dogs, they risked their lives to save PEOPLE. FYI they tried their best and the building still wasn’t saved.
4. How dare you call firemen cowards. What do you do all day sit behind a desk, flip burgers?
5. ……you started over?

Learning from mistakes its school time for you.

#1 everyone even you are obligated by law to help anyone in need. If you dont you can and will be held accountable. That is why we have the good samaritan law. It protects poeple trying to help others from being sued by additional damage they may cause such as: I see a lady on the steet chocking. I run over and give her the Heimlick manuever but its too late and she passes out. Then I remove the obstruction and give her CPR during the process I crack 3 ribs but save her life. I cannot be sued for that because I fall under the good samaritan law.

#2 In the beginning firefighters were just your neighbors forming a chain from a well to a fire passing buckets back and forth. There would be no fire department without people willing to spend their time waiting for a fire to happen we call them firefighters. So you are backwards on that. There would be no fire department if it were not for the firefighters. In ANY gov. service you are required to dis-obey unethical orders they even have a medal for it.

#3 Dont even get started on WTC there is another thread for that and most people already know or feel that was an inside job/ false flag attack.

#4 call a spade a spade call a coward a coward. I am not afraid to call anyone anything that thier actions prove them to be. You want to know what I do all day? I Am a Tattoo artist. I have people come in all the time with bad tattoos they want me to fix. I did not do those bad tattoos. I do not like fixing other peoples bad tattoo work and I could refuse to. I , however, have the talent to fix most of the bad tattoos I see and out of compassion for the individual with a bad tattoo I fix them. I do not ask for a special fee to do this. I just do the best I can and usually they are very happy with the results.

#5 how do you go out of your way to help your fellow human beings and countrymen...?

24 Paws and Guito - BRAVO! Well put and WELL said!!

Learningfrommistakes...it appears to me you are a hater and your comments have no merit!

Your right the us and Gov is all about money and nothing about the people.

guito7399

your #1; your right the Good Samaritan law protects people when they help. there are no laws requiring you to help. so unfortunatly you are wrong about being held accountable.

your #2; ol boy lived in the sticks of TN. unlikely people without gear or transportation could get there to fight the fire. that stuff costs MONEY. therefore sorry they couldn't operate without the funding as they do now. in the beginning, most of the time the houses just burned, thats why the system evolved.

your #3. hey i didnt' bring in "WTC" i said to keep out of the topic, somewhere brought it up. i told them not to cloud the topical disscussion with an emotional event

your #4 & #5....huh? Pro bono tattoo artist. way to contribute to society..... i won't even bother stating my vocation. being too close to topic you wouldn't believe me anyway. i could flip burgers and contribute more then you.

Lots of posts and way to much stupidity to address them all.

Didnt get dispatched to the first fire...get off their backs.

Arrived with one truck and 5 crew. That means they had the water on board and that was it. Rural TN means NO FIRE HYDRANTS. They decided to save a home that was threatend by a property fire and contain the blaze that had already partially comsumed the home in the report. Did they just stand by spraying water and protecting the guy who had paid 75$..yup. Because that was all they could do when they got there.

As far as taxes. Please. The county rural voters voted down the fire levy 3 times..please check out the voting record. Thats why there is a fee for service payment.

As far as complaining abut the fee system...been to a National Park lately? No Fee..NO ENTRANCE. And we have the national taxes to support the park system, this county doesnt. There are way to many facts that you are overlooking:

A unsupervised child burning trash behind the house started the fire. UNSUPERVISED CHILD being forced to burn trash and be exposed to toxic fumes from plastics etc....where is your moral outrage? Didnt call 911 until house was already on fire....Where is the comments on the decision making and delay in calling for help? Rural means out of town. It means a response time and limited respurces to assist you in times of need. Frequently it means containment.

Look at california..should the fire departments save everyhouse when a wildfire is going on? By your logic..YES, and yet they make decisions to allow areas to burn because they dont have the resourses to defend them or they are not safe to stay and fight. Are the firemen upset when they are pulled back, sure you see them on TV every year. And yet a in a rural area, with limited men and limited water, these men prevented a human caused fire from destroying one home and contained the fire so that it didnt spread to neighboring hills and firests and you are all castrating them, hanging them, and calling them vile names like cowards? SHAME ON ALL OF YOU

Clayton? The more you post, the more the haters will spew garbage at your logic, I on the other hand, have a respect for your insight. Thank you for these facts.

Mr Clayton, I am sure the child feels terrible about this, but you will get your chance to scold him, I am sure. Boys seem to go through a firebug phase, as I am sure many will attest. Cranick is nearly seventy years old, a grandpa. This means he may not have the vigor and stamina of a 35 year old. But to defend these Posers as weakly as you have, will not convince the rest of us, that a moral crime has been committed. I've met many police and firemen who could be described as simple minded. They really believe they are heroes, when they have not a clue. I witnessed a fire that was making its way from field to home. The Fire Dept came and stood around their truck for several minutes putting on gear and hooking up hoses. The flames were now at the front door. This was a slow moving fire. The homeowners were away, a vulnerable feeling for anyone. The backyard was full of chained dogs. The Firemen didn't know this until it was brought to their attention. They really don't seem to like to break contact with their fire engines! They called the Dog catcher. Still the flames moved in, and already the outer buildings were surrounded. In the crowd of onlookers was a young man who came from the lower end of the working class, judging by his clothes and demeanor, who carefully surveyed the situation, and after a moment's contemplation he scaled the fence, released the dogs but held their chains in one hand, grabbed a hose and turned on the water, and fought the fire himself. A brave lad, a smart lad, and someone the system overlooks and disregards; he saves the day. When the fire is extinguished he puts the dogs back to their kennels and gives each a pat. He shuts off the hose and walks back to the fence and over he goes. I cheer the fellow and he gives a nod and off he goes up the street. Meanwhile the firemen are still strutting and posing about the truck like its a photography shoot. Oh what a lesson about the real world. Oh yeah, the dog catcher shows up and captures the now saved dogs which then become terrified by the choke noose and the dark cages. Then he drives them to the pound where the owners will think that the "Good Guys" saved them. There was probably a substantial fee, too. The funny thing to all this is that the firefighters put out the field fire, finally, and the dog catcher took the dogs to safety. Each of these believing that they played their roles and society is grateful to them. But I still see the young man who probably never told anyone because he figures that no one would believe him anyway.

@Malika: Is this really Joanne but you just changed your name? LOL So what does that make you calling anyone who disagrees with you a terrible person? LOL

@Guito: maybe YOU should go BACK to school! A law that requires you to help people? LMAO But, there was a requirement to pay 75.00 for fire protection. Funny how facts seem to get so lost on you people. You are so wrapped up in your "emotions" that you are all almost orgasmic over it. But I understand, rational thinking is hard. It requires looking at things called "Facts" and really engaging your brain! @Sunnshyne: what are you smoking? Yee! haha...this is so funi, isn't it?

LMAO all you want 8 states have duty to rescue laws in the US so take your insults and ignorance somewhere else.

You are so wrapped up in your "emotions" that you are all almost orgasmic over it. But I understand, rational thinking is hard. It requires looking at things called "Facts" and really engaging your brain! @Sunnshyne: what are you smoking?

Are you sexually deprived? what does anything I said have to do with an orgasm? Further more... being all wrapped up im my emotions? Are you kidding me? Thats what its called when you want someone to do the right thing in this world? For you maybe rational thinking is hard but for me it comes very easy. Saving someone life and property is rational thinking especially if I dont want that peson to come begging for my spare room. you need to engage your brain and what I state is a fact IS a FACT!!! IT IS a FACT that there are laws that force you to help people those laws are called Duty to rescue laws and 8 states have them So scoff and talk smack but your the fool.

actually guito is correct, it is a common law that any emergency worker, such as police, firefighters, emergency medical techs. ect, have a general duty to rescue the public within the scope of their employment. and last i checked it was a firefighters duty to not only rescue people from the object thats burning but also to extinguish the fires to prevent further loss. if their inactions had cause a neighboring home to start on fire they could all have been brought up on criminal neglience charges. which i think should still be possible. Most fire departments require their firefighters to swear an oath to save Life, Property, and the Environment. guess 2 out of 3 is the best those guys can do without $75 huh.

What you all seem to be forgetting is that this fire department was operating outside of their chartered jurisdiction on a SUBSCRIPTION based agreement. No de3partment has an obligation to respond outside their chartered jurisdictions. Try calling the fire department for a neighboring city next time you have a fire. Or the police fromt he next town over...

There is no law mandating anyone to protect your property and first responders are only required to assist if they can do so without putting themselves in danger.

Firefighters put their lives on the line everyday to save people but no law requires it. This is why they are called HEROS. But in this case, no human lives were in danger and it was only personal property. Even the fire fighter oath doesn't require them to defend personal property, only that of the general public. If that means letting your burn and containing it to that, so be it.

The only negligence here was on the part of the home owner.

yeah, they let a building burn down, they did what their job required them to do. WE SHOULD KILL THEM.

FYI the $75 lasts for a year. its an annual fee, you pay it every year. Once.