Yes!! I agree with you 100%. This generation is a microwave generation, they do not want to wait for anything.

I saw one of her big fat tub of goo students, who is now in college, on the news a couple of days ago. He came across as some smarmy spoiled brat. He had a smirk on his face that suggested that he had one thing on his mind and that was to do as much damage to her as possible. Asked by the News host if an apology would have helped this turd answered no. WTF? This piece of crap is not in her school anymore and had absolutely no compassion for her. If he's an example of the youth of today and tomorrows leaders we are in major trouble.

I cannot imagine teaching high school students without having an escape valve. They are just nasty little individuals. Part of it is the problem that they are the product of the no child left behind idiocy which allowed kids who were not prepared to continue their education. How frustrating to see a classroom full of students who just do not care. This is why we are hitting bottom in so many states.

Strangely, I had a Latin teacher in 10-12th grades who would take us to task for the slightest error. Now, he would be fired. But, at age 64, I stood in the Colloseum and and could translate what was on a chunk of marble; I can open a book by Virgil and just read as if it is English. Something to be said for teaching as though it means something; and this woman really wants to teach.

I had the same experience. I'm 73, and I can still sing Jingle Bells in Latin, and O Come all ye Faithful in Latin, and understand most of what I read. This teacher drilled and hassled and scolded us daily. We didn't much like her. But I learned, by God I learned.

One of the biggest problems in today's education system is that there is no way to fail.. We are teaching our kids that no matter what they do they will never fail... that is not real life... In real life you either perform or get left behind.. In real life you either make the grade of you are out on the street. When I went to school there was a true stigma about being left behind... It motivated me to do my best.. Failing meant that you would not go to the next grade and would be labeled a "dummy"... Now we are so concerned with their "feelings" and their "self esteem" that we don't teach them that there is such a thing as failure and you need to learn to deal with it... I tried out for the baseball team and didn't make it... I had to learn to deal with that failure.. I wasn't good enough.. I tried harder and made it next year... My parents consoled me, but reminded me that I hadn't really practiced that much and if I practiced more..... well you get the idea...

We are so busy today that we neglect to teach our children that real life has the potential of failure...

The immaturity of the students is not really the issue here. The question is whether or not an angry rant like that is likely to be helpful. It may have felt good to write those things but it's silly to think that the kids are somehow going to become more mature because a teacher wrote a profanity-strewn rant on the internet.

That's not "tough love". Tough love is expecting the child to accept the consequences of his or her decisions. If you choose not to study, you're going to get a bad grade. What this teacher (and her defenders) don't seem to understand is that tough love is not incompatible with having respect for the child. Quite the contrary -- the basic philosophy of tough love is a recognition that the child is a smart, capable, mature individual that is ready to accept responsibility and the consequences of his or her choices. If, on the other hand, you tell your students that they are lazy, unmotivated, ignorant, immature clods then why would they think they can do anything?

If I thought I was a lazy, unmotivated, immature clod then I probably wouldn't bother trying to succeed either. People are motivated to work hard when A) the hard work would lead to a reward worth having and B) the person believes that the reward is attainable. If you make the child feel like he is lower than whale feces, he's not going to very motivated because he won't believe he can succeed in the first place.

All the politicians talk about the value of education and demand more money. Money is not the answer here, this teacher is citing the problem with education, namely unaccountable 'students' and is being punished for telling the truth. That is the real problem. Political correctness and no one backing up the teachers.

I have taught in universities and community colleges, I took one look at public education in the lower levels and said no way. The classes I taught in community college were entry level and the level of knowledge the students had was deplorable. Many could read or write at a fifth grade level and their knowledge of history and current events was essentially limited to American Idol and who their favorite pop star was.

I doubt seriously that the teacher treated her students like 'whale feces' and the reward worth having is an education. This education is 'free' in the sense that students don't have to reach into their pockets to pay for it. Perhaps if they did they would value it more.

the basic philosophy of tough love is a recognition that the child is a smart, capable, mature individual that is ready to accept responsibility and the consequences of his or her choices. If, on the other hand, you tell your students that they are lazy, unmotivated, ignorant, immature clods then why would they think they can do anything?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay...and if they are not smart, capable, and mature and simply happen to be deadbeat kids with deadbeat parents? What then? Just tell them they are so the letdown is that much greater?

She can't use tough love because nobody is allowed to fail or otherwise be held accountable. She's using the only tools she has.

While I agree with the teacher, I also find some of the comments amusing. If you want to find the real problem look in the mirror. People p1ss and moan because of bratty kids and crummy schools but I guarantee you that 90 of the parents today would raise 8 kinds of hell if the teacher was cracking down on their little prince or princess. If you want to know why kids do poor in school, why they misbehave and are lazy, don't blame the school or the teacher, blame what they're learning at home.

wow, you've managed an anti-israel rant on an education post and...israel,,,not isreil.

I think the kids today learn by example, look at what this country has become, a bunch of whiners and cry babies, that is why our country is in deep Sh_t and what do we do, look for escape goats to put the blame on, I wonder if people even noticed how we all got here, we now face the most pressing problems of joblessness and lost of homes, yes this is an important issue it is a first amendment issue, she spoke her mind about as issue most here knows exist, no names were mentioned so why suspend her, and I'm sure it was not the kids that got that done, so the parents can't face the truth is that it ? ....... I guess they like being whiners ... LOL

Discipline of mind and action is the biggest failing of education today. Kids crave discipline, they need to know the rules and know that not following the rules have consequences. That's why games are so popular with kids, both electronic and otherwise. The games have rules that must be followed to be successful and if you don't follow the rules, you are penalized. It is not the action that draws gamers, it is the creative operation within a set of rules that keeps them playing. When I was young (pre-computers) every time my friends and I worked up some sort of impromptu outside game, the first thing was to lay down the rules, which sometimes caused a lot of heated discussion, but they were often more important than the actual game.

If classroom and learning rules are clearly spelled out and ENFORCED, kids will be just fine, they want it and are used to it. If classrooms were as disciplined as computer games we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Teachers have no choice but to speak in general terms in an open online forum. They CANNOT speak back to their principals, or parents. Regardless of how much of a poor performer the kid is, they have to cater. God forbid a parent would complain to the District Superintendent! My wife teaches Middle School and I can't believe the stories she comes home with. I considered teaching, but I would have lost my job long ago with the first mouthy kid and parent(s). My wife works 7 days a week-literally, 5 in the class and then the whole weekend preparing for the next week. She works 10+ hour days every day! I hate her job! Gone are the days when a kid would get a whippin' for back talk or cutting or failing. Oh no, not my Johnny! BS! I raised three and I was in school for every one meeting with staff, and I NEVER took my kid's side because I KNOW KIDS! I was one! My child would get their butt chewed right in the meeting, for starts, and it continued at home, if necessary. Rarely did I have a second meeting. Nope. Gloves have to come off on these little spoiled brats texting in class, sexting in class, etc, grind dances, etc. No wonder we are behind in all the major sciences.

Hey Jack,

Couldn't disagree with you more. So what do you do if the male student, who is most likely bigger and stronger than the female teacher, gets mad at the teacher telling him what he can or cannot do in the classroom? What if he assaults her outside of class because she "embarrassed" him in front of his friends? And you call her inept? I call you naive and narrow minded.

I have been teaching for over 15 years and the kids get worse each year. They don't do critisism, they don't do homework and they don't like to read. But if they fail a class it's the teacher's fault. The parents yell at the school administration and the administration goes after the teacher.

Remember it doesn't matter what a student knows or does not know or how prepared they are or unprepared they are, it is the responsibility of the teacher to ensure the student passes. And the student knows this.

That's the problem.

First--this was a blog that she shared with family and friends. It was not an opinion blog that she was seeking a public following on. Her apparent assumption that her blog wouldn't be compromised may have been naive, but it is germane.

Second--I've worked as a sub, and I learned early to avoid middle school. Middle school is absolutely the worst time in most kids lives. They are dealing with raging hormones and changed social imperatives that they've never experienced before.

We have an 1803 letter handed down in the family from a sister to her brother at boarding school. Some of the boys at the school went on a rampage and threw their benches through the school windows. His sister was admonishing him not to follow the lead of other boys in this behavior. It isn't just kids today. It only takes one or two students as a spark to ignite the powder keg. The situation is aggravated by school consolidations. In a small school the trouble-makers are marginalized. In a larger school there are enough of them to create a critical mass...with predictable results.

(Did anyone else pick up on the fact that she quoted lyrics from the musical Bye Bye Birdie song "Kids"? )

I have looked over the new comments... You people are the ones that are the problem... Ohhhhhh poor little babies... you cant succeed if people tell you the truth... that you are a lazy slob that doesn't want to learn... Well folks the truth sometimes hurts.. it is time to face the brutal facts that the majority of our children are lazy slobs that don't want to learn... You talk about adults that expect entitlements... wait till the next generation gets out of school...

As for this person ranting on an anonymous web blog... How did her students know that it was her talking about them... or was it that they felt guilty about not learning and wanted to lash out for their own failure????

yeah we have to tell the truth...our kids are monsters and we parents are ignorant. wow why can't we see what miserable human beings we are

Ahh. BIG FAT LOSER, I see you are an idiot.

I taught school for years. If her students are disrespectful, it's because she allows them to be.

If she's this inept she needs to find another career anyway.

Sorry, Jack, but you're wrong. Teachers in schools aren't allowed to defend themselves and they aren't allowed to punish students for bad behavior.

But...hey....you're from Texas. Maybe they let you have a pistol in school to carry around, huh?

Schools in the other parts of the country expect their teachers to just shut up and deal with bad behavior and not say a word about it. It's come to the point where these stupid "gangsta" wanna-be idiot kids are beating up and even stabbing and shooting their teachers. When it comes to incidents like these, do you really in your right mind think it's the teachers' fault?



Get the kids detached from electronics and facebook and bring them back to reality.

Couldn't disagree with you more. So what do you do if the male student, who is most likely bigger and stronger than the female teacher, gets mad at the teacher telling him what he can or cannot do in the classroom? What if he assaults her outside of class because she "embarrassed" him in front of his friends? And you call her inept? I call you naive and narrow minded.

Call me whatever you like. I taught in some real hell-holes, and I promise you she's inept. There are several problems with your suggestions:

She's not complaining about physical threats. She's complaining about laziness and whining. She's whining about their whining....good lord.

You seem to imply that she's somehow out on her own in the event a student threatens her physically. Is this the case in your building? It never was in any place I ever taught?

I have been teaching for over 15 years and the kids get worse each year.

No they don't. They are the same now as they were 20 years ago. We've just attached cell phones to them....surgically attached, apparently.

Kids are lazy. You know it, I know it, and she should know it. What was she expecting? For that matter, what are you expecting? This is not a new phenomenon. Americans have been on a lazy binge since the Eisenhower administration. Complaining about it is akin to a doctor complaining that everybody she sees is sick.

Now, everybody needs to vent a bit. That's what the teachers' lounge is for. That's what Friday afternoon happy hour is for. You don't do it on the internet with your photo attached.

Now, if you REALLY still want to defend this woman, please take my advice and spend the rest of this semester finding yourself an office job where you will be much happier and make more money.

Sorry, Jack, but you're wrong. Teachers in schools aren't allowed to defend themselves and they aren't allowed to punish students for bad behavior.

Of course they are. Do/did you teach? If not, don't spout ridiculous nonsense on a topic you know nothing about.

But...hey....you're from Texas. Maybe they let you have a pistol in school to carry around, huh?

I guess that was supposed to be humor. Let's keep working on that.

Schools in the other parts of the country expect their teachers to just shut up and deal with bad behavior and not say a word about it.

Given the earlier part of your post, I suspect this may be equally as inaccurate.

It's come to the point where these stupid "gangsta" wanna-be idiot kids are beating up and even stabbing and shooting their teachers. When it comes to incidents like these, do you really in your right mind think it's the teachers' fault?

No, that would be the administrators' fault, but I lend more credence to the statement than it deserves. You seem to imply that teaching in whatever passes for a school in your town is more dangerous than being a prison guard. I require documentation before I believe this.

Kids need strict discipline and corporal punishment from the start or you end up with chaos in the classroom. If the child learns respect for their elders from the early years their not as likely to attack a teacher when they reach the High School years. Seems simple to me. I grew up fighting other kids, played Football and wrestled in High School. Was 6'1 and 285lb as a junior and senior. But to fight an adult authority figure terrified me. Respect for authority was ingrained from early childhood.

whatthetruth52 I agree with you 100%. We started this coddling attitude with kids and now it is completely out of control. As for the former teachers stating that it is the teachers fault, the key word is former. How long ago was that? It's not the same anymore because if you try and discipline these kids the parents come down on the school because their baby couldn't possibly do anything wrong.

When I got in trouble at school I worried more about the trouble I was in when I got home. Now the kids whine to their parents about how unfair they are being treated and the cycle goes on.

I know a lot of teachers and I guess they all have no idea how to do their jobs because they all complain about the same thing. This is why I question my daughter for wanting to get into this field. She has always done well in school because if she didn't she would hear it from me. She has made the Deans or Presidents list every semester since she started college, she is on her forth. She gets stuck with roommates that care more about what they are going to wear than what they need to study.

We are breeding generations of kids that will never move out of their parents homes because they aren't prepared for it. Failure is a part of life and kids do fail at things. The problem is, we don't let them know it because somehow it is now traumatic to tell them they did something wrong or they aren't good at something.

Parents can no longer discipline their kids. There are no outs in a kids baseball game. There are no winners or losers in other sports. If you are ten or older you are looked at like a freak if you don't have a cell phone. Parents have to stop being their kids best friend. You are supposed to be shaping them for their future and kissing their a$$es isn't shaping them for the future.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's and so did millions of others and somehow we were able to become fully functioning adults in society. All of a sudden everything we did, the way our parents raised us, it was all wrong. It all had to be picked apart and changed.

When the hell is someone going to admit that change was wrong? Millions of kids but something bad happens to five of them and we have to change the rules for everyone.

No chores just rewards. Parents who give gifts to all their kids on one child's birthday. Parents who don't help their kids with their homework, they do it for them. Parents who put their kids in sports when the kid can't play. Sorry folks but some people aren't built for athletics. But since we reward the jocks and let the brains fend for themselves what do you expect? How many full ride sports scholarships are given versus academic? If you want to become something in this country you need to play sports, act or sing. There are a lot more wealthy pro athletes than there are Mark Zuckerburgs in the world.

But god forbid if someone makes these statements in a public forum. How dare we call them out. How dare we call them the lazy entitles brats that they are.

All this even when they have advantages we never even heard of at that age. You don't need a dictionary or a set of encyclopedias. You have Google and Wikipedia. Instant answers for an instant society. So instant, in fact, that it is too much work.

I gotta get off this soapbox and get back to my job.

The people who need to be suspended are the district officials who suspended Miss Munroe! Board members need to be voted out if they are supporting this action.

Sorry MGinRochester your arguments just don't wash!

" The question is whether or not an angry rant like that is likely to be helpful."

Let me ask you this. Just because she points out the truth about a problem she's "angry"? I say discussions NEED to be generated, and they are often generated from frustration at a given situation.

"Tough love is expecting the child to accept the consequences of his or her decisions."

True. But if all you get when you exercise tough love is the children AND their parents "arguing for grades", implying that somehow it is YOUR fault that THEY screwed up. Then you have administrators and people like you who tell you that YOU need to respect the child, implying that by giving them bad grades, or telling them to their face things they NEED to hear, you are somehow degrading them as human beings. Ever hear of don't shoot the messenger, MGinRochester?

"If I thought I was a lazy, unmotivated, immature clod then I probably wouldn't bother trying to succeed either."

Well this one says more about you than me I guess! If my boss told me I was lazy & unmotivated I'd want to find out why they thought that and if I could do anything to fix the situation. And if my significant other told me I was being an immature clod, I'd like to think that my life experience would allow me to admit to it and accept it, without it damaging my relationship for life!

"People are motivated to work hard when A) the hard work would lead to a reward worth having and B) the person believes that the reward is attainable. If you make the child feel like he is lower than whale feces, he's not going to very motivated because he won't believe he can succeed in the first place."

UNLESS, of course, they can somehow manipulate the person in charge..... Because if there is one thing they've learned throughout their education is that their self esteem is more important than anyone elses. You see it's not that they don't believe they can succeed at the subject it's that they don't believe they will ever NEED to know the things that adults have to teach them. Why? Because their self esteem is all that matters. Period. End of subject.

And who has taught them this? Why you have! And so has anyone out there that says that just because someone says that you're lazy, unmotivated, disrespectfull, whiny, or immature is just plain WRONG because you're a good person who deserves to be treated with respect.... blah! blah! blah! Did you ever stop to consider that because she used those words, she was simply telling the TRUTH? They are legitimate descriptive words, used to describe people who ARE lazy, whiny, disrespectful etc....

And one final thought. Did you, MGinRochester ever stop and consider that SHE deserves your respect and validation because of who she is and all she's been through to get where she is? Is her self esteam any less important than anyone else's simply because she's the teacher?

Well said, Browns! Kudos for that!

jake-1916371 Okay...and if they are not smart, capable, and mature and simply happen to be deadbeat kids with deadbeat parents? What then? Just tell them they are so the letdown is that much greater?

A whole classroom full of them? Isn't it amazing how some teachers DON'T seem to have classrooms full of deadbeat kids? Any time I hear someone say "It's not my fault -- it's just that everyone around me is an irresponsible idiot", my inner skeptic jumps up and starts talking.

Rather than conclude that this teacher has an entire classroom full of deadbeats who also have nothing but deadbeat parents, I find it much more likely that this teacher simply doesn't know how to teach. I've seen PLENTY of classrooms full of unmotivated kids. What I found interesting, however, is how often those same kids magically become MOTIVATED AND RESPONSIBLE when they get a different teacher.

Your view: 30 kids and 50-60 parents are ALL a bunch of useless deadbeats and 1 teacher is a hero.

My view: ONE incompetent teacher that wants to blame her failures on 80-90 other people.

Jack from TX. You seem to be the only one that gets the stupidity of what this woman did. Let me summarize it for the rest of you:

Teacher who is tired of laziness and whining amongst her students expresses her frustration in just about the most lazy and passive aggressive way in existence - whining on the Internet.

So many of you on here refuse to put your thinking caps on and actually make a difference on anything, preferring to just complainlike the very people you criticize. I can't speak for everyone on here, but setting up a blog and venting my frustrations like a little baby never solved a single thing in my office. Sitting back and screaming "these damn kids" never made a lick of difference to anything either. People have been saying that and cheering on this populist stupidity for generations and it seems to get worse.

It says a lot that with almost 30,000 votes, 98% of us agree with her. The other 2% probably were the students she was talking about. I have never seen such a lopsided vote.

If this woman is reinstated, just how effective will she be as a classroom teacher now? Does she think her own behavior will instill respect in her students? Will any students even want to be in her class? Will parents even allow their students in her class?

This woman has placed herself under a magnifying glass. It is my opinion that she will be totally ineffective as a classroom teacher. She should find another profession. She's obviously unhappy with the profession she's chosen.

@ Don-

Yes....maybe bitching on the net isn't the grand way to solve problems. But that's all she was doing...voicing complaints on the net in her own blog. Why should this even be a news-worthy issue?

Have you ever had a journal? Have you ever gone to a bar and complained about life to a bartender? Have you ever watched the news and had a debate with friends about what is going on in the world?

These are just examples.....but these are also things people do that do not "solve" issues. They are just stress-release valves.

I can think of worse things that this lady could have done to release pent-up stress about her job. Could she have done more constructive things? Of course. However, should she be penalized for writing her thoughts and feelings in her own blog? I don't think so.

As I posted earlier.....if you don't like what's on the TV or radio, change the channel. If you don't like what's being said on the internet, turn it off and go outside.

And it's not just the kids still in school who are whining losers. The "graduates" of our awful "no challenges, please" education system are the losers whining because nobody will hire them - instead of getting off of their butts and making something happen for themselves.

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND.....no matter how stupid or ignorant they are.

USA - USA - USA - USA ! And let the kids in Calif fly the Mexican flag so they don't get upset either. What crap.

lrose30198 Sorry MGinRochester your arguments just don't wash!

Let me ask you this. Just because she points out the truth about a problem she's "angry"? I say discussions NEED to be generated, and they are often generated from frustration at a given situation.

You call a profanity-strewn rant "starting a discussion"? Give me a break.

True. But if all you get when you exercise tough love is the children AND their parents "arguing for grades", implying that somehow it is YOUR fault that THEY screwed up. Then you have administrators and people like you who tell you that YOU need to respect the child, implying that by giving them bad grades, or telling them to their face things they NEED to hear, you are somehow degrading them as human beings. Ever hear of don't shoot the messenger, MGinRochester?

Reading comprehension is a wonderful skill to develop. Nowhere did I say that bad grades should be changed because it would upset kids or their parents. In fact, I said exactly the opposite. If you're going to misrepresent my post in such a blatant fashion, any meaningful discussion is impossible.

What I do find odd, however, is your unwillingness to consider the possibility that this particular teacher really ISN'T a good teacher. There are teachers out there that aren't good, you know. I readily believe that, in any classroom, there will be some kids that are unmotivated deadbeats. Fine. Give these kids failing grades and stand your ground when the kids or their parents complain. I do not believe, however, that **ALL** of the kids in the class are useless deadbeats.

Well this one says more about you than me I guess! If my boss told me I was lazy & unmotivated I'd want to find out why they thought that and if I could do anything to fix the situation. And if my significant other told me I was being an immature clod, I'd like to think that my life experience would allow me to admit to it and accept it, without it damaging my relationship for life!

Tough comments can either motivate or not, depending on how they are delivered and on the circumstances and the person on the receiving end. If my boss told me -- in a mature fashion -- that he was unhappy with my work, I would take those comments very seriously. There is a world of difference, however, between directly addressing someone with a mature, serious talk and anonymously posting a profanity-strewn rant on the internet. PLEASE tell me you can see the difference.

"People are motivated to work hard when A) the hard work would lead to a reward worth having and B) the person believes that the reward is attainable. If you make the child feel like he is lower than whale feces, he's not going to very motivated because he won't believe he can succeed in the first place."

UNLESS, of course, they can somehow manipulate the person in charge..... Because if there is one thing they've learned throughout their education is that their self esteem is more important than anyone elses. You see it's not that they don't believe they can succeed at the subject it's that they don't believe they will ever NEED to know the things that adults have to teach them. Why? Because their self esteem is all that matters. Period. End of subject.

Once AGAIN you fail to understand the issue. Nowhere did I say that a child should be rewarded with a good grade when they didn't study. In fact -- AGAIN -- I said exactly the opposite! Again, I sincerely hope that you are capable of understanding the difference between giving a child the grade (good or bad) that they earned and posting an anonymous, profanity strewn immature rant on the internet.

How do I think a teacher should handle an unmotivated teenager? She should give that kid a failing grade if that's what he earned and she shouldn't change that grade just because someone complains. If she believes he's capable of better work, she might have a mature conversation with him in which she tries to identify the problem. Perhaps he IS just an deadbeat that honestly doesn't care about his future. On the other hand, he may have an undiagnosed learning disability or disorder that impairs his school performance, he may have dreadful things happening in his life that the teacher doesn't know about, etc, etc, etc.

I know because, 20 years ago I **WAS** the teenager that everyone thought was lazy and unmotivated. If someone had simply been willing to look for the source of the problem instead of blindly assuming that I was lazy, my own disability might have been diagnosed 20 years sooner. Unfortunately, I mostly had teachers like you that blindly assume that a teenager is lazy if he isn't doing well.

And before you erect another strawman, I am >>>>>>>NOT<<<<<<< denying the obvious fact that some teenagers really are deadbeats.

I went to college with the intention of becoming a teacher - English was my area of interest. Ultimately, im grateful that didnt pan out - mostly because id likely have lost my job by now because of the funding issues (at least here in michigan). But mostly, because I dont know if deep down inside I would have been happy.

I remember what high school was like for me - I really wasnt motivated, I didnt apply myself and I somehow managed to graduate with a B average (pretty good for no real effort). That said, in the subjects I did enjoy - Art, English & Social Studies/History...I did very well, again without much effort - but I definitely put forth MORE effort in these classes than I did in the subjects I hated, like Math & Science.

Looking back, I have to wonder how different things would have been if I applied myself...if I had convinced myself that trying hard and doing well, even in subjects I hated, was important. I didnt have parents who pushed me, they never inquired about my homework and mostly, they couldnt have helped me with it even if I needed help. Whatever motivation I had at school I brought myself, and thankfully - for me - there were subjects I cared about, subjects that mattered to me.

For a lot of these kids, im betting their parents dont care anymore than they do...and thats tragic. I didnt even consider college until I was almost graduating, its like that conversation just wasnt had with me - or if it was - the thought of more school just made me want to vomit.

Perhaps what we need to realize is that maybe there's a portion of our population that doesnt want to excel, that doesnt want to be CEO's and the next brilliant scientist, maybe there's just too many kids who just want to do the bare minimum and get by.

I know I dont have much desire to be great or do great things, I just want to live an average life, working an average job, doing average things with my friends and family.

But we've taken away all the "average" jobs...and now all we've got are good jobs and crappy jobs.

This generation is in for a rude awakening, mcdonalds will not give them a big enough paycheck for all the things they are used to getting now.

The "fault" with kids and schools today has many components.

Kids: Most kids today are used to instant feedback and gratification. They play video games that reinforce their addiction to instant results. The institutions that used to teach self-discipline (families, churches, Boy/Girl Scouts, etc.) have far less influence.

Families: Most kids today come from homes where both parents work. There is often no one at home to hold them accountable when they get home from school. It's easy for them to snag school letters on grades or behavior before parents get home. Then they head out to hang with their friends. It used to be that there were also grandparents who stood in for parents if both worked. Now grandparents often live at a distance and see their grandkids once or twice a year. It's hard to instill respect for teachers/elders when they spend most of their time with their peers, with little or no adult supervision.

Schools: Ever since they started using business models for school organization, the quality has dropped precipitously. Success is measured by students' scores on standardized tests, so teachers are required to teach to the test rather than educate. The main goal is now to prep students to recognize and correctly answer multiple choice questions. Comprehension of a subject is nice if it happens, but really isn't a requirement. There are exceptions, but too few.

Because the business model also says that larger schools offer greater efficiencies (translation: cost savings), small schools where students get individual attention are mostly part of the mythical past. In addition, schools face much more competition in trying to attract bright teachers. In the 'good old days', there were few jobs open to women, so teaching attracted the best and brightest of them. Now that women are able to compete with men for good paying jobs in business, schools have a hard time competing. What they often get are the left-overs--the college graduates who can't cut it in the competitive business world, or the social misfits who are bright but lack people skills. That really isn't anything new, but when combined with less home reinforcement and supplementation, it aggravates the problem.

In most countries, teachers' pay is among the highest of all professions. In the US, teachers must have a Masters degree, but they are often paid less than factory workers. Small wonder our schools and students are suffering.

While I agree with most of her comments, I still think she may have crossed the line with her posts. Even without including names, it is often very easy to determine who someone is talking about. I also think that if her students are unmotivated, that maybe she needs to examine her teaching methods and not blame it all on her students. Very few high school kids are naturally motivated towards learning. It takes a good teacher to make the subjects interesting and motivate the students. I have had some very good teachers in my life as well as some complete drones that were just going through the motions to collect their paycheck. Berating students is not a way to motivate them and her blog is only going to make things worse if the students know it is there and read it. It sounds like this teacher has been doing it too long and has lost the motivation it takes to teach high school students. It is probably time she retire or find another level to teach at. High school is by far the worst when it comes to motivating students and it sounds like she no longer wants to put in the effort or has what it takes. I also think it is ridiculous for the district to suspend her with pay. If someone has done something wrong you do not give them a paid vacation. If they are going to suspend her it should be without pay, otherwise they should assign her to other duties outside of the classroom to earn her paycheck.

I think she was 100% accurate with what she said. The problem is that she published it on a blog. And for those everyone has a right to free speech fanatics...all that means is that you can speak your mind without getting arrested. It doesn't mean that you won't suffer from any consequences of what you say. She still has the right to free speech. But a lot of employers make their employees sign their codes of conduct. This was pretty stupid on her part to put it in writing for the public to see. She will lose her job if it's found that she violated the terms of her employment.

Just like in the healthcare field, we could be found violating a patient's HIPAA rights even if we don't disclose a name. I can say something if I want to...you know....free speech and all. But I don't want to lose my job. And like others have said, if her job is that bad (which I'm sure it is), maybe it's time to find another one.

I hope those kids and parents take a long hard look at themselves. She hit the nail on the head. Unless the parents start doing their jobs, and holding their kids accountable, nothing is going to change.

If they don't fire her, they will have to transfer her. I don't see how her students would ever respect her knowing how this teacher really feels about them.

Here's a lesson....stop putting things that might hurt you on the internet or text messages!!!!! Say it and forget it....Write it and regret it!

MGinRochester,

The immaturity of the students is not really the issue here. The question is whether or not an angry rant like that is likely to be helpful. It may have felt good to write those things but it's silly to think that the kids are somehow going to become more mature because a teacher wrote a profanity-strewn rant on the internet.

Why does it have to be helpful? Why not rant for the therapeutic value of getting out your frustrations. Feeling good is exactly what it was for.

Jessica,

This generation is in for a rude awakening, mcdonalds will not give them a big enough paycheck for all the things they are used to getting now.

Great post! That's exactly what I was thinking. Like "The Greatest Generation" spawned "The Worst Generation". I can't believe it but the latest is about as bad.

I'm really glad they are trying to get rid of this teacher, and I hope they take all the others who are like her out of the system! Why, you might ask? Because I cracked on my kids (past) and grandkids (current). This teacher is a pansy in her postings. I'm much more stern and demanding. My family can create and produce good-excellent results. This teacher's lazy students will FAIL! FAIL! FAIL! They will be no competition for my family, and we will get the good grades, the fanatstic jobs, scholarships, raises, bonuses--all of the good stuff. While the little whiners will just be on the lowest tier of everything. They are/will be nothing but stepping stones for my kids. Greedy? No! We're not, but we are driven to succeed and do well! We like nice things, and we know there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Ms. Munroe--you deserve to be treated much better. Too bad that your school administration is spineless.

Has anyone considered that we 98% shouldn't waste our time discussing this with the 2% that don't get the point? They're wrong, they'll waste lots of time justifying their point, they're 2% - ignore them and move on.

The problem is more and more adults are the same way. They are churned out of the Government run schools where excellence and hard work haven't been taught in years. Of course this is exactly what Liberals want. A population that has been trained to believe that they can't make it with out the Government providing everything for them.

If you want to change a society you start in the Public Schools. The teachers unions and Libs have been doing that for years and this is the result.

The kids are no different that they were long ago. The difference is what they are taught has changed.

So yes you can toss the kids under the bus, but toss the teachers union and Libs under first. They are the ones who really deserve the credit for failing schools.

This is almost as bad as the teacher that got fired over some retarded bumper stickers here in Phoenix the other day. People need to lighten up, technically this is all covered under the first amendment, people have the right to complain about where they work and who they work with. If the company, or school in this case, can't deal then they should clam it or close shop. If I had a kid going to that school I would un-enroll them, they might advocate teaching idiocy, something that is very hard to get rid of once learned.

@touchdownplay

I would not generalize that just because many public schools failed to pass various measurements under No Child Left Behind that the entire countries public school system is screwed. It has more to do with a portion today's students not being motivated enough to learn or work hard.

It also has to do with their up bringing, if the parents instill the proper work ethics int their kids they will preform better at school. I had friends that's parents said high school was a scam, and they dropped out eventually before Junior year. Others parents said you need a degree in order to get a decent job, and they stuck with it till the graduated.

Geowil,

Maybe I have a different perspective. My wife has been a teacher in a Government run school for 3 years. I agree with you on the parents not living up to their end. A parent actually wanted her 3rd grader pulled from my wife's class because she wanted to educate this child. The mother got mad because my wife called her at home and told her she needed to make sure her child was turning in her work and had missed too much school. That would be 28 days this year. The Principal allowed this child to move across the hall so the mother did not have to deal with a teacher who gave a crap. She will find out though the other teacher also gives a crap. So I guess the mother will continue to be mad. Oh well. Just sucks for the kid.

I did tot say teachers were the problem by the way. I said it was the Teachers Unions that tie the hands of educators with bonds of mediocrity. Unless you really think the union pushes excellence in teachers. I read the Union magazines that get sent to us in the mail. Very little is aimed at making better teachers. It is about electing Liberals.

I would love to continue but I have to get back to work. Lunch time is over.

You know, Aggy. I might be in the 98% that think the teacher shouldn't be punished for what she wrote, but I neven think you should ignore someone their point of view. Once you do that, you might as well become one of the school admins that are going to fire her... since she is the 2% in that school.

The sad thing is as I went thru this thread, I started totally on her sided, because I know how easy the kids have it today and their total lack of motivation to actually learn anything. It is so bad that they rely on electronics to answer everything for them. Math and science... pull out the calculator functions. Anything else... google it. When it comes to competitions... they all win, which means we all lose in the long run.

That is what had me so tightly in her court to start, but then there is the fact that she might not be a very good teacher. She might be one of those teachers who took the job for summers off... afterall there are only around 180 school days in a year. She might not have realized that teaching is actually work, not just babysitting. Hold on, before everyone goes ballistic, I'm not saying that she is this person... I'm merely stating that she MAY be this person.

Let's face it. We all "want" to be on her side. Most teachers are grossly underpaid for what they have to deal with and we are putting Ms. Munroe under this umbrella at the moment. Would you all feel the same if you found out she got paid six figures to do her job? That would definitely take away the underpaid stigma from her. What would there be left for you to feel sorry about? Nothing. Just the simple fact that she might get railroaded for typing her diary on the internet instead of a little book that has a lock and key.

For those of you that have a problem with her blog... grow up. It was meant for friends and family. The fact that students found it shows that if they applied themselves to their schoolwork like they did to hunting her blog down, she wouldn't have needed to vent in the first place.

Here is a simple little thing for you to do every time you want to blame someone for something. Look down at your hand and at that rigid index finger, and instead of letting it waggle away from you, turn it back on yourself. When it is pointed at you, ask... "How can I fix this?" If you can't come up with an answer, then be quiet and don't become more of a problem. I was taught that in 5th grade and I still believe in it. I think that would do wonders in today's society.

Okay...and if they are not smart, capable, and mature and simply happen to be deadbeat kids with deadbeat parents? What then? Just tell them they are so the letdown is that much greater?

If the child is in fact just a "deadbeat", then why expect better behavior? That's where you have to make a choice... either you're going to believe the child is capable and worthy of more and set expectations for them that support that, or your going to accept the fact that they're a "deadbeat", and just leave them alone. Do keep this in mind though... a person treated like a deadbeat will BEHAVE like a deadbeat, so don't get mad when the "deadbeat" fires a huge spitball at your forehead.

Geowil,

Technically, you might be wrong. Yes, you have the right to say it if it is presented in a manner where people know it is your opinion... However, NO you don't have the right to necessarily keep your job after you say it. Depending on her employment guidelines/rules she could definitly be in some deep doo doo. CONGRESS shall make no law abridging freedom of speech, employers CAN make rules abridging it.

Keep up the fight Natalie!!!

Rather than whining and complaining to friends and family on Facebook this woman should be studying and working with her fellow teachers, devising better teaching strategies and working on ways to involve parents who care about their children in the education process.

This teacher's actions are extremely unprofessional. What would be your opinion of a doctor who complained about his patients or a lawyer who described her clients in such unflattering terms?

I'm sure that some of her students might fit her descriptions, but all students are not lazy and self-involved. Some parents are a pain, but parents can also be among a teacher's best allies in the effort to win the hearts and minds of young people.

Most of the bloggers who have commented on this story are willing to believe that all young people are alike, that they are not as good or not as capable as previous generations. This tendency to believe that all people who share a singe characteristic (such as age) alike fail to recognize the individuals who do not fit your beliefs, many of whom are exceptional young people. Such intellectual laziness on your part inhibits your ability to participate in practical solutions to the problems and issues of our society.

BrownsBacker wrote:

When I got in trouble at school I worried more about the trouble I was in when I got home. Now the kids whine to their parents about how unfair they are being treated and the cycle goes on.

That is how we grew up in our family, too! If we got in trouble at school, then we knew that it would be DOUBLE at home!! So, not one of us kids (3) got in trouble at school.

It mentions in the article that this teacher is pregnant. I wonder what kind of parent she will be---will she make sure that her child is a good student who is well behaved and does not cause trouble in school (her "desired" student) or will she be the parent who believes that her child "can do no wrong" and is "always the victim."

WiseMocha, I had a brother who was told by a high school counselor he would never be a doctor and he should not even try because his grades weren't good enough. My brother worked harder because of it and is a doctor. I don't believe that people will always behave they way others treat them. In fact, great people are confident in themselves and don't need others to validate them.

Of course, everyone needs to feel that they are valuable members of society. But we also need to know that we are not blameless. We all make mistakes and we all need to work to improve ourselves.

Perhaps what is most troublesome about the arguments I'm hearing here is the idea that children should be protected from anything negative. While I don't advocate a Lord of the Flies type of environment for children, isn't it true that trials make us stronger? How many examples do we see in the media of children who had everything handed to them, and then they waste all they have, adding nothing to the society that bows to them. On the other hand, how many underdogs manage to pull themselves up and make their own lives meaningful for themselves and others?

There needs to be a more reasonable way for teachers to manage inappropriate behaviors. When a student is disrespectful, he or she should be called on it. But, if a teacher is disrespectful in teaching the concept, he or she will have a tough time getting the message across since young people seem to be particularly adept at detecting hypocrisy. Also, I see nothing wrong with telling a child that his or her behavior is lazy. How can they change their behavior if they don't recognize that a problem exists? When I've discussed poorly done assignments with my students, it's rarely a surprise for them. They know when they've slacked. Why let them even think they got away with it?

As a teacher, I love my students. I want what is best for them. I want them to KNOW they are valuable, lovable, human beings. But I also don't want them to have an elitist belief that what they want is all that matters. I do them a disservice if I allow lazy, disrespectful behaviors in these students I've dedicated my life to teach. One way or another, they will learn that they can't live that way. Do we want them to learn it where it may hurt for a little while, but they'll learn from it? Or, do we want them to learn the world doesn't revolve around them when their spouses or children expect too much of them, or when they might spend time in jail? I think a little detention time where they have to make up school work is a better teacher than the warden at the prison -- or the other prisoners.

Chuck, I have to disagree with you that kids want rules. You mention today's video games as evidence of their desire for rules. Today's video games don't really have rules. They have patterns. Plus, they are designed so that any idiot with half a brain cell working can continually 'level' up. It used to be that in a video game, when you lost your lives, you started back at the beginning. This motivated you to focus and to learn the patterns. Now, you make two moves and it saves your location, so if you die, you just start back at that spot. Endless 'lives' now. NO RULES.

This country has created entitlement as a right, from welfare to social security, now insurance to education. No Child Left Behind was the worst thing anyone could have done for education. Even kids playing sports are not allowed to keep score because someone doesn't 'want kids to experience losing.' This is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. These kids are going to grow up, go to college, fail, get jobs, get fired, and wonder why they are living at home when they're 40, still single, playing their video games, waiting for their parents to die so they can collect their inheritance. And maybe that's justice. The parents eventually will learn, but it will be too late.

This country is in serious trouble and it deserves everything it's going through now. It was built on hard work, perseverance, and dedication. Not laziness, greed, and entitlement. When people are forced to work hard again, then maybe we'll be able to get our country back. I doubt it, though. America has died. The once great America, that is. Now we're just a bunch of self righteous, overweight sloths all looking for the trough.

" is driving a sensation by daring to ask: Why are today's students unmotivated — and what's wrong with calling them out?"

they are unmotivated because public school teachers today are members of teachers unions, ergo public education sucks...try "Waiting For Superman"

Chuck, I have to disagree with you that kids want rules.

Read Maslow. Kids want rules. Rules in a classroom environment represent safety.

mattwend - I agree with much of what you've written (though I wouldn't use the term "lazy" with a student). As a professor, I've encountered many students who were ill-prepared for life beyond high school. I always try to counsel and motivate them because I care about my students and I honestly believe all students can learn given the right environment - I guess I'm a bit idealistic in that respect. Admittedly, they have to want it for themselves as well.

There will always be unmotivated and disruptive students - this is not a new phenomena - however, if the teacher/professor has "control" of the classroom, these students will not be able to hijack the classroom. I am very straight-forward with my expectations of students, but I'm also honest with them. I think that has aided me in building their trust in me and interest in my courses. That said, I have had students reprimand fellow "unruly" students during my lectures, which secretly makes me smile inside because I know they're interested in the subject, they want to learn and they don't want distractions inhibiting this. Very much like your "Lord of the Flies" reference, except it becomes peer pressure to behave and learn. This is the "right environment" I mentioned earlier that I try to foster in the classroom. In the end, there has to be a beneficial outcome that will motivate the students who want to succeed. The students who don't want to succeed will weed themselves out.

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post: A teacher/professor has to be as motivated as we expect our students to be. We must lead by example. Therefore, I don't completely agree with Ms Munroe's rants. I understand where she is coming from, but I think her approach could use some finesse. I teach because I love it. This profession is not for everyone, so if you are not passionate about it I'd suggest you choose another profession.

Plainhypocrisy,

Very good comments and I agree with your posts, but I would think that teaching in a college atmosphere is different than in high school or middle school.

Having taught in public high school and middle school both, I have had to deal with disruptive, disrespectful, and even angry students many times. Most of them knew that I would not take lip from them, but there were still days when it was very trying.

I always felt sorry for the well-behaved students when these disruptions would occur, and often would quietly tell a good student to just hang on until he/she got to college, that it would be better then because those students WANT to be there and know it costs a lot to attend.

My college-aged sons have commented on how much different it is in the classes now, too.

(And middle schoolers can be the worst. Just today, someone told me of a middle school teacher that fled the room in tears because her class was out of control.)

Lebron...

#1 - learn to spell if you are going to complain about a society.

#2 - a vast majority of high school students have no idea what is going on in Isreal.

the kids today arent dumb. they see isreil get away with it so they want to do the same

ROTFLMAO!!! Most kids today probably couldn't pick out Israel on a map or even SPELL IT CORRECTLY for that matter.

remember, if you disagree with isreil about anything then you are as anti-semitic as the SS.

No I think that is reserved specifically for those people who look for EVEN THE MOST RIDICULOUS EXCUSES to bash on the Israelis. I’m not a big fan of Israeli policies or our relationship with them but you sir are obviously a bigot.

Really, you are going to compare problems with our education and parenting with whatever fear you have of another country. You i'm sure don't have any kids. This generation is like this because we have become a country of winers who don't disapline our kids and let them get away with everything because they are trying to be thier friends instead of a parent.

How does Israel have anything to do with this? And further if the students were following the United States relationship with Israel that closely and able to derive their own ability to be lazy and rewarded from it I would say they are anything but disengaged.

This person is a troll... ignore him and he will crawl back under the bridge...

the truth does hurt and we have slowly been moving the ethical line. if you look at what is acceptable today to just a few generations ago it is not surprising to see our children lack good judgement. we have a nation of children who are superficial and think they are living in some kind of a movie and they are the entitled stars of that make believe world. parents who try to be friends with their children are the problem. also, it's not the children's fault, it's society in america. we are creating the monster and by turning a blind eye on the truth will be our demise. i wonder if any of you people think the economy has anything to do with moving that ethical line. as a nation we have been forced in to accepting less is better, frankly it is not and i'm talking about everything from racial integration, freedom of speech, to how we as a nation vote. you all deserve it as far as i'm concerned. look at the nation that will take over as the number one economy in the world pretty soon and you will see that they drive a hard standard when it comes to application, whether or not it is in education, business or social interaction. in this country we lowered that standard and the result from that should be lower expectations. so honestly this teacher should just keep her pie hole shut and toe the line. she deserves to get fired because she is going against the idea of lowering the standard. shame on her for wanting a higher standard!

yeah wow the truth hurts becasue i have been to her class and know what monsters these kids are.... oh no wait i have never met this woman, have no idea if she is a good teacher and i do not know any of the kids but i know that all teachers are saints and all kids are evil and all their parents are morons...except of course for me and my kids and everyone who does exactly as i do

Sickandtired-

I see your point, but that doesn't change the fact that she has a right to free speech. Also, from personal experience many students these days are self entitled little whiners who have no understanding of the value of their education because they believe they deserve good things regardless of wether or not they work for it. So, no it doesn't really matter if she's a good teacher, she's right and she is entitled to voice that opinion.

sickandtired-1089442

yeah wow the truth hurts becasue i have been to her class and know what monsters these kids are.... oh no wait i have never met this woman, have no idea if she is a good teacher and i do not know any of the kids but i know that all teachers are saints and all kids are evil and all their parents are morons...except of course for me and my kids and everyone who does exactly as i do

Yes....while it is true that the quality of her teaching hasn't come into question, it's also true that a lot of kids today act like monstrous little bastards and parents do nothing to discipline their kids because most of America can't be bothered.

Frankly, there are "parents" who, in reality, should've used condoms. If you can't be bothered to be a parent and take on the responsibilities of being one, then don't have kids.

This nonsense that the teacher has to make sure the student passes is foolish.If the brats don't do the work the don't pass plain and simple.There is one phrase they will need to learn however."Would you like fries with that order"

I SO agree with that! People have kids without any understanding of the enormous responsibility and obligation that goes with it. Then both parents work in order to support tech-filled lifestyles, using electronic devices as baby sitters to free them from the obligation of actually interacting with and teaching their own children, when they aren't paying strangers to keep them from harm while they themselves work. If we had a law in this country that one parent HAD to stay home with each child until they were in first grade, then they couldn't afford all the electronic parenting-denial tools and could actually spend the time interacting with and teaching their children, or not have kids at all. I say kudos to all the parents out there who make the financial sacrifices so one parent can stay home with the children! Those children will be the most productive citizens of the future.

Lets see...Middle School and I wonder if the class she is teaching was regular or advanced. 20 years ago, everyone was pretty much in the same classes until HS. Teachers also had the ability to discipline students and used it. I think the problem is both parent and teacher....parent wants to be friend and doesn't discipline say 10% of students, and few teachers really want to discipline or don't have many resources to discipline. So these handful of kids, who don't want to learn, just be bullies, disrupts the entire class. Teacher has no real recourse, so just complains on the blogs about it....what about the other 90% of kids...the victims, not just of the bully that the teacher ignores, but of learning in general. They lose interest and may act out in destructive ways (think Columbine). I think that if the teacher removed these students permantly, yes the parents of the kid will complain, but if you ask each of the students left, individually, most will profoundly thank you for it and have a renewed respect for this teacher (in an open debate of students none would admit to being grateful...just one of the survival tactics of adolesence).

U.S. students only get worse in college. Each semester, I had 2 or 3 (of 25) graduating seniors who were actually competent, *somewhat* mature and engaged in their classes, especially their major. Or, for that matter, were engaged in anything other than themselves and gaming the system. I had one who still couldn't read and write beyond the level of a 3rd grader. He wasn't the least bit bothered by it, because his family told him he was good-looking enough to get a job in ... wait for it ... television. I suspect he is now in the unemployment line. I had another whose mother threatened me and the university with a lawsuit if her lazy, solid D- student son didn't get at least a C in my class - one that most private, parochial or homeschooled 8th graders could pass. It was beyond me how he made it through 4 years of college, or even got in. Why are U.S. students both obnoxious AND failing? Parents. The silver lining were those 2 or 3 each semester, bless 'em.

It is really too bad that teachers are left to choose between teaching and safety. Most teachers really love their jobs. But it is also true that every year the students become more difficult to deal with … To me, there should be three things taught in our schools: Reading, writing and arithmetic. If, after these topics have been learned, the student qualifies for other areas of learning. Otherwise, the student stays back. The classroom is going to get even more difficult in the coming years because the Cell Phone Generation coupled with the student thinking they know it all (enough to be responsible at a young age) that will continue to drive the young.

As for the blog, You go Girl!!

It is really too bad that teachers are left to choose between teaching and safety.

We miss you here in reality. Come back.

littlechanges, I applaud your viewpoint. College kids these days are mirroring these younger immature middle schoolers. And when they fail because they didn't do the work, or worse -cheated-, the parents call the Dean or the Chair of the department, raise a stink, and then the professor is pressured to 'pass' the student.

It's time for parents to realize that what they are producing are not well adjusted young adults ready to handle the pressures of life with these actions, but immature trolls who will be living with them for the rest of their lives because no one will hire them for much more than minimum wage. Of course, with our nation becoming more socialist by the year, maybe they won't have to worry about it because the kids that studied, worked hard, and succeed will be punished for it with higher taxes.

I think I see a correlating pattern here. Kids get lazier and dumber and the government steps in to steal from the hard working motivated. Yep, it's happening as we speak. Maybe I shouldn't have studied for all those years.

If I had been given anything I wanted from the day I was born, had no real discipline, no responsibilities, was not taught to respect adults, and was raised by video games rather than parents, I might have a bad case of entitlement, too. Even if that were not the case, when I went to school and spent all my time surrounded by peers who WERE raised that way, I imagine their behavior would start to rub off on me. Parents are afraid to discipline their children, and teachers aren't allowed to. What do people expect?

Yes, yes, we know...everyone was smart and dedicated and on task and disciplined 'back in the day'...every parent was Ward and June Cleaver, every child an A student, every teacher filled with the excitement of teaching.

Returning to the real world now...The reason this teacher's blog is controversial is because of what it reveals about the TEACHER, not the students. The days of the incessent whining..."oh, they just won't shut up and LEARN", are waning. We cannot compete in the world with this kind of attitude from those who supposedly are modeling ADULT attitudes and behavior. if she isn't up to finding a way to connect with students (they're ALL bad???) then she doesn't belong in the profession.

AP

you just keep bucking for the stupidity prize, like lazy students.

What this says about her, AP, is that she's tired of the attitudes she is expected to put up with in her profession. She's voicing the opinions of thousands of other teachers who see the truth of what our educational system has become. How many of us get into a profession just to realize it wasn't everything we thought it was? Just because she's voicing her frustrations doesn't mean she got into teaching for the wrong reasons.

And also, AP, she did exhibit ADULT behavior by censoring her blog to not identify the school, or any particular student. How many instances of online bullying have been in the news because IMMATURE people rant against specific individuals. Everyone has a right to speak out against injustice (yes, even the students), and this teacher did so in the most respectful way possible.

To AP

If you had ever been in a classroom in the past 15 years or so, you'd understand what the majority is saying here. It is really difficult to earn the respect of students when you have absolutely no authority. They are smart. They know this. You are not allowed to fail them. You are not allowed to discipline them, oh, well I could write their name on the chalkboard if they misbehaved followed by 4 check marks before I could do anything which doesn't work very well with 15 year olds!! The problem with the school system isn't so much the teachers or the students, although there are some bad in both categories. The real problem rests in our society. We have all become lazy and expect everything to go our way. Well, wake up! It doesn't work that way. We can't fire bad teachers. Good teachers are leaving the profession. Parents threaten to sue if you say anything negative to the students. The students are lazy, mainly because they are bored, or because they were pushed through a system that doesn't teach the subject matter, only how to pass the test. Just exactly WHO is running the show?

AP... I am not saying that everything was perfect "back in the day" I am saying though that there was a punishment system in place for poor performance... that you had the opportunity to FAIL... and that opportunity kept a lot of us in line... In today's classrooms there is no chance of failure.. Hell if they are disruptive, you can't even throw the student out of class... without fear of being fired... We give them all the carrots and no sticks... bring back the stick and keep the carrots... you will find that they perform better... quite frankly throw out the ones that don't want to learn... let them see how easy it is to be in the world without an education...

If you had ever been in a classroom in the past 15 years or so, you'd understand what the majority is saying here.

So.....do you assert that the majority of posters on this thread HAVE spent that time in the classroom?

If it were like the old days of you don't do the work you don't pass,half the 6th graders would have beards and kids of thier own as lazy as they are.

You guys make it sound like this blog is going to effect the students that she is complaining about. Not at all. The children who will be effected by this blog are those that feel the need for attention by teachers and parents who never feel like they are doing good enough even when they are. The ones that are like 98% isn't good enough.

The lazy ones don't care what this teacher says about them, and won't change because of it.

Tough love only works if it is directed at the individual person. Then you have to actually follow through. Break them down, and then you better be there to build them back up or all you end up with is lazy depressed student who may take violence against themselves and or others.

I don't want this teacher anywhere near a child of mine or relative. She obviously doesn't care anymore about trying to help her students. Nowhere do I see in comments supportive comments from teachers or ex-students. That says it all to me. I've seen teachers who helped rally their students into suicide by being one of the fellow bullies and they get students telling how wonderful of a teacher they were to them.

It seems she did identify herself -- her picture accompanies the article. While she has a right to her opinion, sharing it on line shows poor judgement. How many times do we have to tell our children to be careful because what they post on line will come back to haunt them, and yet here is a teacher, a role model, doing the same thing.

Does anyone really believe if this is her attitude towards these children, it does not come across in the classroom? She needs to be fired and find work where she won't have to deal with children she obviously can't handle.

Maybe having her own children will change her attitude, or else some day they will be reading her blog about how much she hates them.

Wrong! If Wikkileaks is Free Speach than so is a teacher speaking her mind! She should have named names, they deserve it. I am sick and tired of hearing about how we need year-round schools to get our kids up to par. We need parents to be parents and tell the children they're "children" and to Shut Up and Do As You Are Told!

o'really: you're obviously not a teacher in today's federally-run, propogandized public school system...but if you are, then you're part of the problem.

o'really: you're obviously not a teacher in today's federally-run, propogandized public school system...but if you are, then you're part of the problem.

No.

The behavior was completely unprofessional. The woman is obviously inept on many levels.

O'really & Jack, why should anyone be expected to just "handle" a bunch of malcontents? Schools are not there to take the place of bad parenting. I have held all my kids to the highest standards in their attitude towards their education and behavior, and always let their teachers know from day one that if they have a problem with my child, I'll address it. It hurts to know other parents don't support the teachers the same way.

The problem lies not just with the education system but with society as a whole. I don't know how many times I've been rejected or needed to do a little additional convincing for a job because I'm young enough I get lumped in with that generation. We need to stop this now children/ young adults have a terrible sense of entitlement, they have no ambition or work ethic, and no interest in learning. This comes from poor parenting and too much politics in schools.

I know its hard to find time with both parent working to really push our kids, and demand the absolute best from them, but if they and our society are going to succeed that's exactly what we need to do. My husband and I both work and its hard to have to punish our daughter for bad behavior during the, what seems like so short time we get with her at night, but if the behavior is bad it needs to be punished, they will be better off for it. Its so sad to see so many parents give up and just ignore disrespect, laziness, and all the other poor behavior that all children are prone to exibit from time to time.

Jack and O'Really,

You're the Minority Report by 97%. One word on your opinion with regard to giving effective action to this problem as a whole: Overruled.

O'really & Jack, why should anyone be expected to just "handle" a bunch of malcontents? Schools are not there to take the place of bad parenting. I have held all my kids to the highest standards in their attitude towards their education and behavior, and always let their teachers know from day one that if they have a problem with my child, I'll address it. It hurts to know other parents don't support the teachers the same way.

RandomB,

The kids whine. First, that's hardly qualification as a "malcontent". Second, they whine because she let's them whine. When I taught, all of my students would whine....once. Here's how that played out:

Me: Ok, for homework you have page 15, problems 1-24.

Them: 1-24????? (insert one of) That's too many/That'll take all night/That sucks/We can't do that/etc.

Me: Oh, I'm sorry, let's go ahead and do 1-35 then.

Them: WHAT????

Me: Well, if I have to put up with you whining about it, I may as well earn it. Anybody else want to complain? There are 60 problems on the page and I have 2 worksheets to go along??

Them: You're mean

Me: Why thank you. I've worked hard to become so. And BTW, you don't say "sucks" to a teacher, here's your detention.

Right Jack, then little Johnny refuses to do the homework and you fail him. Now, little Johnny and his parents are in your office asking why you are giving Johnny so much homework that he can't possibly get it done. At the end of it all, you fail little Johnny, and he moves on anyway because failure is not allowed. Your tactics would have worked on me, but I'm 39 years old, and back then, I would have been the one on the firing block. Now it's the teacher that is wrong. When I graduated from college, I considered teaching in prisions because of the advantages. 1. Students want to be in the classroom and must exhibit good behavior to attend. 2. I would have an armed guard at all times. 3. I was innocent until proven guilty. These are things that teachers in public schools today have no right to expect. Your kid should be good in my class because YOU taught him to be that way. I teach English. YOU, as a parent, teach manners and respect.

So Jack,

you only gave them 35 problems out of 60? Barely more that 1/2 the load? No wonder students are in the shape they're in....

and you call yourself a teacher.

whynot & stayout

When you've taught public school, or even have kids in one, come back and post.

Jack, I have taught in public high school, as a substitute teacher. And, I've raised six kids, all of them in public high school.

I once told a student to run an extra lap in PE because of attitude. That student complained to the administration, and the principal blacklisted me from coming back to that school. No he-said/she-said, just that a student complained, and the school didn't want the backlash. Entitlement.

My kids were not always angels. I've always backed up the teachers observations on my kids, with one or two exceptions. On one occasion, my son was having a problem with a gang-banger bullying him during class. When this happened, the teacher would send my son out of the room to minimize the disruptions.

Jack, what the teachers can do depends on how willing the administration is to back them. I taught for five years, and some of the administrators I worked with would back you, others wouldn't.

I have taught school, middle & high school. I assume that the Jack TX means you are from Texas? If you taught here recently, you'd know that you can't just say here's your detention. You have to follow many, many steps before it can get to that point. "Back in the day" you could just hand out the detention slip. And, before you judge my teaching abilities without having known anything about me, my evaluations were always "clearly outstanding." I left teaching because of the continuous threat of lawsuits because I did demand respect which resulted in numerous issues with parents. My sanity was worth more than the salary.

I'll be the first to admit that there are many teachers in the system that shouldn't be, but as stated above, that is one of the problems with the system. Until we demand that those teachers are removed from the system, we will continue to have those problems.

As for the teacher in the article, who are we to judge that she is the problem? I loved my students, even those that caused some problems, but I still would say some of the things she said about them. The blog was for her family and friends so I'm sure she worded things differently than she would for the general public. That said, however, I always tell my kids that if you don't want the world to know about it, don't put it on the internet.

Bottom line: The System is Broken

What's wrong Jack? Dish it but can't take it? I thought you had thicker skin than that.

What's wrong Jack? Dish it but can't take it? I thought you had thicker skin than that.

Dude, it's a forum, not IM. On a forum, you can go into a meeting for a few hours and then respond when you get back.

RandomB & Steve C--both of you make good points. Effective administration is important, and if you don't have it the job is much more difficult. However the classroom teacher is still not powerless.

RandomB--A substitute teacher has a rough life. Kids who would not normally misbehave suddenly do so and you get almost no backing from administration. A regular classroom teacher's job is different and the level of support they get is different

I have taught school, middle & high school. I assume that the Jack TX means you are from Texas? If you taught here recently, you'd know that you can't just say here's your detention. You have to follow many, many steps before it can get to that point.

From one former "clearly outstanding" to another, you clearly know what you're talking about, but for the sake of the non-professionals following along let's make sure we clarify. Every school has a code of conduct that is issued to every student upon arrival. That code outlines disciplinary procedures, and classifies them by severity.

So, as you say, you can't just run through detention slips willy-nilly. (If you're any good you don't need them anyway.) But there are certain behaviors whose severity warrants immediate issue of a detention, or immediate removal from the classroom, or immediate removal from the campus.

In short, contrary to what seems the belief of many here on the Vine, if a kid walks into your classroom and tells you to go f**k yourself, you are NOT expected to sit there and take it.

Back closer to the topic at hand, if your students whine, it's because you allow the behavior. It's a bit difficult to describe without a demonstration, but a good teacher can cut off 99% of unwanted behavior very easily. Good teachers understand the psychology of the kids. They understand the need for structure, and how the right structure is like the right offense in football....effective and easy to execute.

Maadimom, you know as well as I do that even with all the tools we have, sometimes students will drive you to drink. You also know as well as I do, that there is a time and place for venting, bitching, moaning and screaming about it. The internet is not that place.

Jack, you seem....uptight.

Boy, Jack TX makes me ashamed I'm from Texas. First off, it doesn't matter what she said, where she said or how she said it - she said it on her time, on her blog, to her friends and family. What happened to free speech?

Furthermore, what happened to holding these kids accountable? What about the parent's? Kids are lazy, I know - I have 5 of them. The schools in my district teach to an exam, period. There are no freedoms, no curriculum other than what the state mandates. Teachers cannot be individuals any more...it's sad. We have one of the worst school systems in the world, and people want to worry about what some teacher said on a blog? How about talking to your senators and congressmen? How about making a change in the system that pushed this teacher to the brink. Some of you have said that if she couldn't hang, then leave. Are you for real?? Do you not realize how much it cost her to go to college to become a teacher? She's probably still paying student loans, to teach these stupid, arrogant, bratty kids? I applaud her! I couldn't teach, because I would've put her thoughts on their papers. Most kids are punks ... don't care and with both parent's having to work, they don't care either. Instead of punishing the teacher for what she said, find out WHY she said it and make a difference. Geez, fight the right battles. You people that voted in the lower %, if you're not careful - you'll lose your right to disagree because it's exactly that type of mentality that takes away our rights ... before you know it, freedom of speech will be gone. Then, you guys will be the ones "whining" about it ...

Boy, Jack TX makes me ashamed I'm from Texas.

Do you have something specific to disagree with?

First off, it doesn't matter what she said, where she said or how she said it - she said it on her time, on her blog, to her friends and family. What happened to free speech?

on....her....blog.....

She published it. Hence the scandal. Hence the suspension. Hence the news article.

If she had put it in an email to her sister nobody would say a word.

Furthermore, what happened to holding these kids accountable?

Is that what she's doing?

Do you not realize how much it cost her to go to college to become a teacher?

I taught. For a living. Yes. I know.

You know, in today's day and age (world of technology) you have to account for blogs and online social networks. These are the new modes of correspondence between people. Why should she have sent it through email to her family, when it was her nameless blog to begin with.

Is that what she's doing?

I didn't say her blog was holding them accountable. I said why is everyone harping on her, about what she said when everyone needs to be looking at the class. They need to figure out what is going on, how to make the educational system better ... not scanning nameless blog accounts for a possible hit. The only reason anyone connected this, is probably because someone that didn't like her, went hunting.

I taught. For a living. Yes. I know.

I had a negative comment for this but it doesn't pertain to the current topic, so I'll leave it to your imagination.

Why should she have sent it through email to her family, when it was her nameless blog to begin with.

I think the problem is that her photo was on the blog. Again, had it truly been anonymous we wouldn't have anything to discuss.

jack...You're wrong, and you're losing...rightfully...So, how does it feel to know the rest of the world is a tuxedo, and you're a pair of brown shoes?...

COME ON!!!

She posted all of this anonymously. She didn't name any names. She was VENTING through a personal blog.

The school was WRONG.

Harmful, Richard, really? Obviously you are part of the problem if you think calling someone "lazy" is HARMFUL. Geez Louise. We need more teachers like her.

Not in my school district (hopefully).

And yes, she was clearly oblivious of the consequences of using social media to whine about her students. Harmful, to herself especially.

Well

they've done a good job of getting you to police yourself. Of course that means you are in fear of reprisal. Not the attitude of a free person, is it?

Wastes time??!! No, wasting time is attending countless parent conferences to help the child only to find out that as a teacher you will be expected to lower your expectations, make concessions to ease the burden on the child, change grades because the parents are influential with the board of education. Wastes time!!???? How about the hours you spend correcting papers over and over to allow a student to pass, giving them free tutoring time after school so that no one can say that you have not given them the correct instruction. Giving up your lunch, free periods and any other time to try to get them to understand that THEY ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE even though their parents don't give any help in this area. Wastes times???!!!! The time I lost in my personal life trying to help all of these entitled children. I loved teaching, but it was a constant battle zone and those of us who care are being beaten until we just have to give up. Bravo to anyone who has the courage to say something, to call attention to this disease that is blighting America. I only hope that President Obama realizes that the money he wants to put into education will do no good as long as parents run the schools. Run schools more like a business, as unsavory as that may sound, and you will probably see a huge change in what is happening in education. Those who really care need to vent or they will explode. Teachers are not in charge of a classroom and they need to interact with others to survive. They need the moral support from somewhere because they are not getting any help in schools.

Harmful Information!!!???? Speaking the truth, raising awareness, and bringing attention to something that the public needs to be aware of is not harmful. I dare you to last a day in a regular classroom. It is a war zone and none of the rules of engagement hold that were in place for our generation. Respect, dignity, responsibility, honor, obedience, and truth are no longer there. To survive the administration plays the game with the parents and the teachers are caught in the crossfire with no functional weapons. Become aware and judge not lest you be judged. She is in the only mode teachers have left - survival mode. And if that means venting anonymously, she has every right, God-given and Constitutional.

Boy, was it ever worth it! The truth is often tough to swallow, huh?

You said it well, kedbob. A society isn't free anymore if the measure of a person's behavior is whether or not they get in trouble for something they say. It is not enough to pretend she's entitled to her opinion, as long as she does nothing to express it. There are obviously many things wrong with our educational system today, and it will not improve without people expressing themselves.

I have only one question for this teacher or anyone else that wastes so much time, effort and money to vent out on-line the same frustrations all of us have everyday:

"Was it worth it"???

Why don’t you tell us Richard. After all you seem to be doing the same thing on newsvine every day.

Harmful, Richard? Really? Harmful as in.....?

I think someone here is being a little melodramatic and I think that someone is you, friend.

"Harmful" posting of information on the net is what WikiLeaks does with our nation's secrets. A teacher having a little rant online in her OWN PERSONAL BLOG is not harmful. It is a rant. It's her voicing her opinion in an open forum that doesn't have to be read by anyone.

When you don't like what's on TV, change the channel. If you don't like what's being said on the internet, then turn off the computer and go outside.

When did having a grievance or trying to set things straight Whining..If that is the Case then GOP is LORD of the WHINERS!

Are we to never say anything and just keep being abused and trudging along like a good lemming....is this the slow molding needed to be totally controlled by the Government?

11th and 12th-graders? They don't need to be "monitored" by the parents. They need to start showing some accountability. You want to start acting like an adult then get the respect of of an adult. Act like a spoiled, entitled child and that is exactly what you should be treated like.

Parents are engaged in their childrens life no matter the age. Monitoring at any age is acceptable as long as this young adult expects mom and dad to foot the bill. Understand parents are legally responsible for the actions of these young adults until they hit 18 or 21 - depends upon the state.

Consider also these same young adults are almost always expecting mom and dad to fund their college and their party life style while at college. Yep parents have not only the right but the responsibility to monitor these "adults" since they're paying the bills. The young "adults" demonstrate thier maturity and transition from childhood to adulthood by their conduct and their success in their education endeavors.

Tom....you won't see that because that would mean that a lot of these "parents" would have to be actually be ACCOUNTABLE for all of these little bastards running around under foot.

I hate that I'm doing this BUT ... with the world the way it is, both parent's having to work to make ends meet, it's hard for them to monitor their kids everyday life. If they are 11th and 12th graders, they need to be held accountable for THEIR actions, after all - they are about to be out of school, in the workforce and probably your boss. I'm going to get a lot of women pissy at me but when women left home and went into the workforce, a lot of people suffered. Someone needs to be home with the children, male or female but one parent should always be available and that just isn't possible these days. When do you stop blaming the parent and start blaming the 17/18/19 year old's for their problems?? Point the finger in the right direction ...

Our education system only works if parents work with teachers to ensure a positive and respectful environment for students. Communication is the key. If my child misses an assignment, or is having trouble in a particular area I expect their teacher to tell me so I can address the problem before it escalates. If I don't know what is happening at school I can't help my child succeed. That being said, it is my job to check with my child daily - Do you have homework? How was your day at school? How is your science fair project going? It is also my responsibility to talk face to face with their teacher on a regular basis, not just at conferences. I talk to my younger childs teachers about once a week. For my High School student her assignments are posted online so I know how she is doing. I don't spend as much time in her classrooms because she has learned to be responsible for herself. However if there are missing assignments or other indications of problems, then it is time to intervene.

I agree with your first paragraph. For the rest though, why assume she always felts like this? She may have just been venting on a few bad days, it said that the majority of her posts were not like the ones quoted- everyone gets a little frustrated at work sometimes. Especially when you care and want things to be better.

oops, felt not felts

That is true, Emily. I must admit, I am curious to read her blog.

Also, did anyone else notice that her line:

"Kids! They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs. Noisy, crazy, sloppy, lazy LOAFERS,"

is from the Bye Bye Birdie song called "What the matter with kids today?" Sounds like a lost of her complaining might have been kind of tongue in cheek.

Henador: nice of you to eventually include parents in the mix of blame. The education system is administred by elected officals on the local school boards - don't like the quality of support coming from the administration than exercise your right and vote in better folks.

Also keep in mind those administrators must compete local requiremets, local control and local limitations (funding, enrollment etc) with state and federal guidelines, policies, rules and laws etc.

I place the blame for our failed education system on our elected officials, parents, unions, parents, students, parents, incompetent educators, parents, low standards, parents and did I mention parents.

I also support Ms. Munroe - she would have earned my greater respect if she had voiced these concerns, views and facts at the PTA meetings and with the school system administrators rather than limiting her comments to facebook.

And I thought the morons who objected to using red ink to grade papers were bad! As if somehow, an "F" in green is less of a failure than a red one. Education is regressing in this country to a frightening degree.

My kids' elementary school already grades like this. I wanted to hold my 7 yr old back a year, he is really behind in reading, has a summer bday and needs a bit more maturity/confidence. The school refused to, because his *test scores* didn't show an issue!! He's in 2nd grade and can't write a readable sentence, can't read sight words he should have learned in kindergarten. The school tested him, his IQ is 123 and he has an almost photographic memory, but there is some sort of disconnect between what he reads and what he writes. We're currently homeschooling him since after 4 mos of special ed reading groups he is not showing improvement in reading. He is able to score very high on tests because he absorbs the knowledge, but doesn't have to write anything, just fills in the circles. I was very angry when the school refused to listen to my concerns and forced me to move him to the next grade when I knew he was not ready. So now we're doing homeschool and I will also homeschool my 6 yr old daughter next year because she too is exceptionally smart and the school is not teaching her anything.

The schools teach to the dummies. That is the difficulty. We need to stop making children feel ok about failure.

Now that is just plain sad. The aricle did indicate that the changed would give students and parents a better idea of the progress. OK, fine...put that in the comments section and leave the regular letter grades alone.

I haven't seen a report card in about 10 years now. Is there still an effort grade given? Maybe the new words could be used there (Or the first letter).

Amanda,
When I read your post I had to bite my tongue not to yell "You gotta be kidding me!" I actually had a job where they tested that system for performance reviews... at the end I wanted to ask my manager for a lolipop. Thankfully it only lasted for one review.

Ruth,
Have you had your son tested for dyslexia? A lot of otherwise brilliant children can't read or write because of that.

Agreed. There are parents who don't care about being real parents and then there are the parents who are hamstrung by overbearing government organizations like this. If a kid is truly being abused, it's one thing. However, a teenager being punished can just pick up the phone and scream "child abuse" and get the parent locked up. How are parents supposed to deal with that?

As a parent in a fairly affluent area, I have seen these behaviors on a social and sports level for many, many years - everyone gets a trophy, every child is 'perfect', no one's child is ever to blame for poor behavior, and outright cheating and lying have been condoned by parents. I know each generation wants the best for their children, but just wait until this crop of little darlings hits the real world! Kudos to Ms. Munroe - she said what I've been thinking for years!

"My students are out of control,"

And whose job is it to maintain control?

Jack, it's the PARENT'S job!

When I got in trouble in school (and I did) there was NO blaming the teacher or the administrators. I got my a$$ whipped all the way home and it was taught to me that under NO circumstances was it OK to disrespect my teachers and it was my JOB to do well in school. It was my ONLY responsibility outside the home and I was damn well going to live up to that responsibility, or else.

I raised four kids with the same principles, and was by far the strictes parent out of all my kids friends. And guess what?? I've seen those other kids die in drug/alcohol related car crashes and OD's, have children out of wedlock, spend their lives doing nothing meaningful, etc. My kids? Four college degrees, three happily married, three careers on track and one in grad school. I'm not telling you this because I think I'm a fantastic parent or that my kids are inately superior to anyone else's. They were made to know what their obligations were and they were taught to uphold their obligations. Simple equation. And one that got lost somewhere between my parent's generation and my generation. I've seen how kids turn out when they never have to earn anything and are not held accountable. It ain't pretty.

This teacher hit the nail right on the head.

And just so you know, I'm 54 and my oldest child is 30. I'm not some ancient geezer. Parents need to wake up and quit trying to make their kids happy instead of teaching them to be successful.

Jack, it's the PARENT'S job!

Ideally it should be. Legally, it's not. The entire body of educational law in the US takes responsibility away from parents and puts it onto the schools.

Teachers are highly educated, certified professionals with years of training and experience.

Parents could be anybody who couldn't figure out how to use a condom.

Whom do you want running the school?

Teachers are highly educated, certified professionals with years of training and experience

No teachers are not all highly educated, certified professionals with years of training and experience. The brightest and most capable DONT teach, they go to fields that PAY more. The best teachers become Principles or School Administration. Finally, after one fails at other professions, then one pursues a teaching career because the pay is lousy. Few go into public school teaching because they have a calling; therefore our best and brightest are not teaching school.

No teachers are not all highly educated, certified professionals with years of training and experience.

You have to be college educated, and you have to have a teaching certificate. You're right. They're not all experienced.

therefore our best and brightest are not teaching school.

I didn't say best and brightest. I said highly educated and certified.

Not everybody is motivated by money alone. I became a teacher because I had a great high school journalism teacher who was my hero. I didn't expect to get paid a lot. Maybe once upon a time, teachers were barely qualified, but that is absolutely not true anymore. Unless you happen to live in a low-income community where schools have metal detectors to keep weapons out. Those schools definitely have some recruitment issues.

It shouldn't be either parents or school, it should be both parties job. You guys blame it all on the parent, and say well they shouldn't have kids. That might be true, but that child exists in this world now. From what I read on here, the majority thinks this child deserves every horrible thing that comes their way just because they have bad parents. Please don't make it my responsibility to step in and help these children attitude on here shows why we have such bad problems with students these days. No one here wants to take responsibility for their lack of doing anything to help.

One good teacher, coach, school administrator, religious leader, scout leader, etc. having the heart to step in and help a student, instead of bashing them in a blog, might save that kid's life literally or figuratively by giving them the opportunity to succeed.

@Indievote:

Right on the money!! Good Job and congratulations!!

We should be starting a family soon and at 38 I feel like I can mimic your absolutely spot on parenting. It is right on the money!!! Ps. I've been in the classroom 9 years and know we have a huge problem!!

Jack, you COMPLETELY missed the point of my post. The teachers should run the school. They should have a classroom with children in it who are respectful and ready to do their job. It is the PARENT'S job to get the child ready to do that. A teacher should not have to deal with disruptive, disrespectful, unmotivated children. It is the parent's responsibility to the school, the other students and society at large to prepare their children to grow into a role as a responsible, productive adult. Teaching them how to behave in school is just the beginning of that process. I don't know what "legal" issues you're talking about that removes responsibility for a child's behavior from the parents. I don't think any law has been passed making it illegal for a parent to teach their child how to behave.

One point I pounded into my own children is this: Character is how you act when no one is watching. Teach them the satisfaction of a job well done, the satisfaction of delayed gratification, of working towards something and the satisfaction of something coming to you that you EARNED. Simple principles that have been lost along the way somehow. If parents concentrated on teaching (and living) those simple precepts, teachers wouldn't HAVE to deal with the kinds of kids they are these days.

Jack, you COMPLETELY missed the point of my post.

Oops. Thanks for the clarification.

A teacher should not have to deal with disruptive, disrespectful, unmotivated children.

I agree. However the reality is that they do. This has been the reality for decades, and every teacher gets training on how to deal with these kids.

OK, Jack. So what are you saying exactly? That it's the teachers who should be teaching these kids how to behave in public? Have you raised kids yourself? Did you expect the schools/teachers to straighten out your kids when they misbehaved, or were there consequences at home for your kids if they disrespected their teachers? Who raised YOUR kids?

OK, Jack. So what are you saying exactly? That it's the teachers who should be teaching these kids how to behave in public?

No. Teachers are responsible for maintaining control in their classroom, as well as any other area of the building they may be assigned (hall duty, lunch duty, ISS, whatever). Maintaining control means deciding what behavior you will allow and eliminating what you won't allow.

Have you raised kids yourself?

In process. Girl (16) and a boy (12).

Did you expect the schools/teachers to straighten out your kids when they misbehaved, or were there consequences at home for your kids if they disrespected their teachers?

Both of course. If my kids misbehave at school, I expect there to be consequences at school. How else will they keep order? There will be additional consequences when they get home that will make them wish I was as nice as the principal.

Let's back up for a minute. You appear to think that I'm saying parents SHOULD not bring up their kids in such a way so that they behave while they are at school. Not at all. I am saying that parents DO not do it.

What SHOULD be only matters on internet forums. What actually IS matters in the real world.

The reality of every teacher's life is that kids misbehave. For that matter, the reality of every parent's life is that kids misbehave. It doesn't mean they are sorry little miscreants or that they are not being raised properly. They are pushing the boundaries. It is a natural part of their psychological development. However it is the boundary's job to push back. Every teacher studies child psychology. They know this.

I don't know where Jack gets his info....but NO not every teacher gets training on how to deal with behavior problems! Only those in special education programs!! I'd like to see Jack have to deal with 30 different kids 8 periods a day, that's 240 different kids in a days time, and realize he's only got his own common sense and a usually weak administration behind him for disiplinary help. And that's the biggest problem, because so many parents blame everyone but their child for bad behaviour, administrators are worn out dealing with the problems and DON'T want to deal with any of it anymore, so there is little support when a teacher does have severe problems with students. Teaching is taking a back seat to disiplinary work because it takes so much time out of a teachers day. And there's only one place to put the blame...PARENTS. Disipline is taught at home, and reinforced at school. If it's not taught at home, it can't be reinforced anyplace else....it then has to be "dealt" with. And you expect a teacher who gets paid a pitance for a four year degree to not only teach your little darlings, but to do what the parents are to lazy to take care of at home? You people are the problem!

I don't know where Jack gets his info....

8 years teaching in public schools.

but NO not every teacher gets training on how to deal with behavior problems!

Yes. They. Do.

I'd like to see Jack have to deal with 30 different kids 8 periods a day, that's 240 different kids in a days time, and realize he's only got his own common sense and a usually weak administration behind him for disiplinary help.

I have done. I was also a mentor for new/younger teachers.

I've had classes of 38 kids with 30 desks. I've had classes where a kid was in a wheelchair from being shot through his spinal cord and the shooter was in the same class. I've taught in classrooms with bullet holes in the windows. I've been the teacher that other teachers send kids to when they misbehave because the administrators were useless.

Teaching is taking a back seat to disiplinary work because it takes so much time out of a teachers day.

This was true for me when during my first couple of years. As I got more experienced...and better....discipline became less and less time consuming because I knew how to head off discipline problems before they occurred.

Unions are at fault? By what stretch of the imagination? Unions used to be the backbone of the middle class, and created wealth and working conditions that benefitted most of us who are working class today. It is not the Unions that are siding with parents and students, it is the Department of Education, the Superintendants, and the School administrations, and this administrative component of education is creating the lack of discipline and grade inflating. The Teachers' Unions are standing behind good teachers that are becoming victims of these policies and are standing in the way of pay for student performance, which is absolutely absurd considering most of the problems with students originate in the home environment. Unions only have so much power and you are giving way too much blame to the unions and not enough blame to the employer. An employer can simply fire a person for repeatedly not showing up to work unexcused, and there are not many Unions that would be able to stop it or even defend it.

YES UNIONS ARE AT FAULT. ALL UNIONS are crap. If you can't fight your own battles you don't deserve the job.

Patricia

meet me, alone. We'll see if you fight your own battles well when the odds are stacked against you.

Lincoln, I think we have to take a long, hard look at our society's values as a whole, rather than at a single group. Too many of us have begun to value the individual so much that we have cast off our recognition that we cannot truly succeed unless the group of which we are a part succeeds, as well. I do recognize that there was a time when groups unfairly excluded individuals rather than help them to develop necessary abilities, but even that is a part of improving the group as a whole. To complain about real abuse is one thing; to decry constructive criticism and punishment for deliberate misbehavior as being abuse is another entirely. Parents are ordered to 'persuade' their children to behave properly, rather than to demand that they do so, with no authority to enforce that persuasion. We are told that it is corporal punishment that leads to violent acting out in children, yet we see the children of "hands off" rearing use knives and guns against others. And these self-centered children are becoming a part of our work force, either failing because they have what they term as " problems with authority", or become CEOs and such, who profit while the organizations for which they are supposedly responsible fail. Our desire for a gentler society has led us down the wrong path.

There is a generational difference, which could be perceived as a lack of this or that. Every generation experiences this, and every older generation bemoans the lack of civility in the younger generations. This is not a new story.

I do agree that children are not really given many opportunities to learn from mistakes or to practice problem solving -- this really is a problem! But to lay the blame solely at the feet of teachers is a bit misguided in my opinion. Yes, there are bad teachers, but so many teachers I have met are incredibly dedicated, much more than I would be to a job that pays so little (money or respect). I'm not sure how unions are implicated here. Most of the constraints that teachers work under are imposed by administrators at district, state, and federal levels. There is little time for creativity in teaching anymore.

Oh, and I can attest to seeing college students who are brilliant test takers (what they've been taught to do, K thru 12) but who couldn't think themselves out of a paper bag.

Hey Patricia,

Why in the H-ll don't you go learn some REAL history of Unionism in America and why they were created and thrived in the first place.

In a gentler tone - I say that I've been witness to many corrupted ethical practices perpetrated by (my) union members... and in my internalized angry response I had to remember that they are only human and most humans have to look outwardly to even know how to behave and choose.

The examples to be seen once again (Ref: Union History - Causes & Effects) within our world (USA - Free Capitalism - Unbridled) is that only the people in the Board Rooms and Executive Offices are deserving of (overly) fair compensation and that the Workers in the so-called "trenches" really do nothing of import, thereby undeserving of anything but a begrudged paltry wage.

I guess you to be somewhere in middle management...(could be wrong)... so why don't you get in the trenches and YOU dig/make the ditches, widgets or whatever....

Signed - Annoyed with the whole DANG thing.

PS:

If the teacher was engaged, making an honest effort and not slacking off herself... then I vote for her. The response by her Administration is another example of our societal tendency to Stick the Head in the Sand and Blame Some One Else.

Patricia:

Can you image a school dristrict with about 3000 teachers and each teacher had to negotiate their own contract AND all at the same time of the year (so that education could continue on the current calendar without disruption to the learning in the classroom)... How much of the tax payers dollars would that cost on wasteful effort? Its unreasonable! Its wasteful! And its not what the teacher's focus is. This is the reason for the unions.

In general:

We are professional educators! We want to be in the classroom, we want to help our society and the next generation. (And by 'we' - I mean 95% of all teachers... in every industry you have bad apples)

Everything in life is a pendulum... right now in our society every pendulum seems to be at one extreme or another, all in a 'bad' way. Its like our societies bio-rhythms are out of whack and it very well could lead to the fall of the American society (much like the Roman Empire of 2 millennia ago). As always, IMHO.

Thank you for giving us this perspective, and your honesty.

So, Sam...you give the poor teacher your support by saying she's right, this is how it is in high school...you've been there done that. But then you turn around and say it's the teachers fault? Teachers either do nothing or are overbearing? How pathetic an excuse for students bad behaviour is that.

I couldn't be a teacher today because I wouldn't put up with the students' crap and I sure as hell wouldn't put up with any whiny parents who've created the sense of entitlement these kids possess.

That's why I quit pursuing a teaching degree, and that was 25 years ago! Two weeks of student teaching were more than enough for me. I can only imagine how much worse it's become in the interim.

YES!!!

Personally, I think she went about this the wrong way. If she has students who are lazy and aren't doing the work required, then fail them. If she has students swearing or showing up late to class, give them detention. I know if a teacher threatened me with detention when I was in school I straightened right up because I didn't want to miss a volleyball game as were the rules at my school. Should she be fired, probably not. But she definitely should have thought twice before posting those things online. Everyone knows that when you post online, it's there for everyone to see!

Same here, Dennis. I did some dumb things as a kid and my mom and dad took me to task for it. I turned out just fine without all the "emotional scars" that overly sensitive people just love to complain about and make excuses for when they fail at life.

Historically unions have fought for a certain maximum number of hours of work(e.g., 40 hours). This type of schedule gives parents time to spend with their children and help to develop them, provide structure and discipline. The likelihood of parents being home more and spending more time with their children provides a better foundation for them to be good students. Now as unions have declined, so have the number of people that spend time at home, because they are working late or well over 40 hours a week. Too many parents are busy chasing the $$$ to provide material wealth, and to pay for services like cable, internet, cell phones, etc. instead of the priceless act of spending time with their children. This is a societal trend, and not many people are lucky enough to choose a job that lets people spend more time at home and less at work. You could try asking for less hours by yourself, but that would be sealing your own employment fate, but if everyone in the Office requested it in an organized fashion it would likely be a different story. So tell us wise Patricia - how is it better to fight your own battles?

@CleanHands you don't seem to get the point. They can't fail them, especially if they don't have tenure because they'll get fired. This is a deadly cycle - it's just like back in the day when football players got free grades. There is nothing honest about the US education system! If teachers fail the student, they get fired. If students fail, the school gets less money, UNLESS the student is labeled LD .. then they get lots of money. This is all about politics and how to play the system for more money. No Child Left Behind has created a lot of these issues ...

They can't fail them, especially if they don't have tenure because they'll get fired.

I tutor several of my daughter's friends in math. Most are failing when they start coming to see me. If the teachers can't fail them, where are these kids getting their F's?

@Jack they won't fail for the year - they'll pass them through like they always have.

Jay, so you prefer the old days when it was required to work 60 to 80 hours a week?

@Jack they won't fail for the year - they'll pass them through like they always have.

I'll take your word for it that this happens in your school district. It doesn't where my kids go to school. If these kids fail math, they have to go to summer school or night school to make up the credit.

Also, I'm referring to secondary school, which is what I am familiar. Elementary may be different.

All you anti-union people read "The Jungle" some time, and then you will understand why unions became necessary. I'm not sure your weak stomaches can handle it.

I don't think every job field needs one or that you should be forced to join one, but there are fields that do need one, and those are ones that are dangerous especially when the owners care more about the bottom line then the safety of it's workers.

Rita: The jungle was written more than 100 ago. And even though Unions were the solution back then, unfortunately today they have become power units who in some cases will go against the will of their own members than the necessary tool to compensate for so many injustices. We need a more balanced system, where the labor department is a referee of the system, not a simple incompetent office who washes its hands and protects more the employer than the employee. I had the chance of witness its incompetence when the company I used to work forced the workers to sign a draconian contract that in some cases violated the employees' rights by forcing them to arbitration and making them relinquish their right to trial. When we asked the DOL for guidance their response was... "They can do whatever they want", therefore I turned my resignation and found something else. But I am the exception, not the norm. Most of these people had no other choice to accept the conditions because no one would come to their defense. And I don't have anything against unions, I simply do not enroll in one of them because I think I have the right to negotiate my own rate and my own rights with any employer. Having said that I agree that in some cases are beneficial, but in other cases unfortunately they become just like any other power handler.

Sorry Butterfly, my kids are 32 and 21 and they still say "How high, Momma" when I say "Jump". I never spanked, I just gave them a look and they "knew" I meant business. My 21 year old is in college now, majoring in elementary education. He is teaching his first class today. He was raised to give respect when it's earned, and only when it's earned. I can see fur flying in the future.

My parents taught us that respect was earned not a given. My Dad's favorite saying was "You may not like me but you will respect me." After all these years my respect for my parents is as strong as ever. Children of any age need to know respect isn't a given and earning it is hard. In the work force their need for respect will pay off in spades.

I a 40 year old parent of 16 and 8. Both of my kids behave and respect their teachers! Because they know if they don't the $%&* will hit the fan! They have been taught that school is for learning not playing! So don't blame all of todays parents some of us are as tough as our parents were and DAMM proud of it!

Cat: I agree with you, not all the parents are lenient. But cases like yours are rare. Most parents (and I emphasize on most, not all) do not care about their children education or the education at home. A child or a teenager reflects in school what he or she assimilates at home and vice versa. When a child is disrespectful from a teacher is because the same behavior is tolerated at home. And the teacher's job is to instruct the child. A teacher's job does not include to teach those kids behavior or how would they handle themselves in society. That's the parent's job. I remember having a 4th grade teacher (and this was many years ago, when being a teacher was a vocation, not another job) who could line up the whole school with a megaphone and counting to three. Before that teacher reached 3, the whole school was lined up. And none of us dared to be disrespectful to a teacher, that would grant us the embarrassment of our parents being called to the school and most likely as spanking from the school door to our house. So we knew not only that it was wrong but that the consequences of us violating those rules were harsh. It was rewards and punishment at its best. Today that has been forgotten, and some kids are little brats who make teachers think twice whether assault could be justified. That is one of the reasons why I teach only at college level. Besides that, I completely agree with you and my kudos to you on keeping them straight.

catlover - although this may sound odd, there is research behind these tactics. If kids learn experientially, they learn faster and retain more than if they learn by being told. With regards to getting out of their seats, movement does bring oxygen to the brain and wake kids up. It isn't really natural for kids to sit still all day, they have a ton of energy. I agree with most everyone that the bottom line has to be learning and accountability, but as a former outdoor / experiential educator I've seen firsthand that this type of learning really gets kids engaged and interested, and they are able to retain the information because it isn't just route learning. I'm not saying water down the education, I'm saying it makes a lot of sense to look at our current ideas about how the education is delivered and think about whether there are ways to deliver it that works better for young people whose natural state is activity. In China the kids are required to perform daily physical exercises. They even take time every hour to get out of their chairs and jump up and down, as strange as that may sound. Not chaotically, it's all choreographed, but they are utilizing these types of tactics in other places in the world.

What I worry more about is the lack of any intellectual challenge. I remember public school being so easy you could get good grades without even really trying. That I think needs to be remedied, because there are a lot of really serious problems that as adults, we're collectively being faced with. Beyond all of the problems of our personal lives there are social issues, environmental issues, climate change, poverty, etc, etc... If kids aren't used to sticking with something really tough, thinking creatively or working collaboratively together, they aren't going to be able to tackle the big issues they will most certainly be facing as adults.

catlover: couldn't agree with you more. One of my former students is a teacher for a local middle school. She shared the same stories. This is playtime masquerading as education. It is also demeaning to the students, assuming that they're so stupid that they have to be 'entertained' to be educated. Too much television 'culture' has entered the educational systems.

catlover - Agree. I give the teacher credit for airing this issue. It seems to me that children reflect what they are being taught at home - grow up self centered and disrespectful and it is reflected in out shcools. Hence, no respect for themselves, others, authority, or their future. Regardless of the type of school - public or private - without the fundemental learning at home this is what happens.

When I was in school, they called it "recess" , and it worked.

Tundraleigh,

then if the schools choose to use this new type of learning activities to enhance the oxygen and learning abilities of their students I suggest they make the school year longer to cover for the time being spent on these exercises and games. Schools/Teachers and PARENTS all need to share the blame on this one. Curriculum is most certainly diluted as to where it was "Back in the Day" and there are just way to many vacation days, late start days, and now they want to shorten the school year, then teachers hide behind their union saying it is all about the students when that is a load of crap, take in LAUSD for example they asked the union to pay 25% of their health cost ( all of us have to pay more than that) to save 2500 plus teachers jobs. The union came back and said no, so who is barking up the wrong tree there? Then Parents, we cannot lay a finger on our kids anymore or else you get a visit from child protective services, a lot of parents want to be their kids best buddy and mommies just love to dress like their little darlings in the latest pop clothing, instead of acting like adults. As I tell my friends who have little kids, If my kids didn't tell me I hate you at least 3 times a week because I said no to them, then i wasn't being a parent.

Bottom line is a teacher that calls it like it is, I wish she teached here in California and in my kids school district.

Catlover,

As a former college professor, I would hope you would understand the importance of research.

Research shows (and has shown for decades) that kids retain more when a variety of interactive pedagogical methods are used. The National Council of Teachers of Mathematics has been on this bandwagon since the early 1980's.

Should we ignore research in all areas, or just education?

When a doctor uses a minimally invasive procedure instead of slicing the patient open, is that OK or are we coddling?

@ Catlover-

Eh....there's nothing really wrong with making learning fun. I wish my teachers made learning more fun. I have the utmost respect for the teachers who made learning fun and challenging. While some of the "games" may be a little overboard (I don't know what is expected from your friend), there's nothing wrong with getting a kid engaged in the learning process. As a college prof, can you seriously say that you enjoy just droning on and on and lecturing your students to death? Nothing is absorbed in that way and all you accomplish is talking until your throat is worn out. However, debates, little learning games, and even a 5 minute break here and there can re-vitalize both students and teachers. Learning should be an experience that opens a person's eyes to the world. Lecturing just leads people to fall asleep and miss the instructor's entire point.

..That's what bothered me about this news article...The former student said it was the teacher's job to motivate the students....I have a problem with that...The motivation to learn should be the betterment of themselves, not some person standing in front of the class telling jokes and acting the fool to keep them entertained........

...I learned from 'good' teachers as well as 'bad' teachers....but that was MY choice to make....I wanted the education for it's own sake, not because someone was expected to beat it into my head or entertain me....Should we now refer to those who choose a career in education as entertainers?

jammin jimmy -

I have no problem with making school days or the school year longer. I think it makes a lot of sense especially since so many parents work outside of the home until well after school has been let out.

I think you missed my point though which was that learning can be integrated with fun, that education is not replaced, just delivered in an alternate fashion. You can learn about math the traditional way, or you can go outside and do a hands-on experiment that pulls together principles of math and science and then write up a report (english, grammar) that you put together with your group (teambuilding) while getting exercise and being immersed in the natural world (the last two have both been shown to lower stress and increase self-esteem and kids make some vitamin D to boot).

Education is vitally important, but the education system is structured for the convenience of the educator and administrator rather than the health and well-being of the student (or for that matter the educator - maybe health insurance costs would be lower if teachers got to be out hiking around instead of stuck sitting in a cinderblock room). If we conscientiously looked at delivery, we might also solve some of the behavioral issues that are weighing schools down financially because they have to hire so many professionals to deal with behavior issues that probably stem from boredom and lack of any outlet for physical energy. That is my only point here. I completely agree that standards need to be high and students need to be accountable.

The rest of your post I won't comment on except to say that I would never knowingly hurt my own daughter and if someone else tried to I would defend her with my life and every tool at my disposal. She's only 10 months old but I hope that when she's old and thinks of her relationship with me it isn't hatred or friendship that she remembers, but that I loved her and all of my acts, whether she liked them or not, stemmed from that love.

Jack,

Since you value the use of research I assume you understand the relevance of empirical data, especially when coupled to a or 'the' desirable outcome.

China damn sure doesn't do this, Japan doesn't do this, Europe is moving away from this, Russia doesn't do it either. They are all blowing our socks off when it comes to churning out kids with a solid foundation of knowledge when they complete their primary education.

I would say your studies are flawed, and the result of pre-selected outcomes to satisfy grant money. An example of classic corrupt bastardization of academic research. I only have the rest of the world to look at as the counter to the argument you present.

Cniht--

You make interesting points. I am not familiar with pedagogical practices in China, Japan or Russia. If you have detailed knowledge of these practices, I would love to know where I can read up.

What we know about Asian students in the US is that their educational practices are very interactive. The Ford Foundation commissioned a study to determine the reason behind the huge gap in academic performance between Asian and Black kids at a couple of major universities, specifically as it related to mathematics. What they found was that the Asian kids created an interactive learning environment among themselves, while the Black kids tended to end up stranded and isolated.

The University of Texas then implemented a mandatory group study program as part of its freshman calculus curriculum and nearly eliminated the gap in one semester.

As far as the studies being flawed, I guess that's possible. It's equally possible that the majority of reason for the performance difference are cultural.

That's exactly what is expected of teachers now! Our faculty was required to read a book called, "Working on the Work." If we make it interesting, they will do it. Well, some will. Others will do any work, regardless of whether it is fun, just because they were assigned to do it. Which students will fare better in the world?

@Catlover my husband use to work for the school systems. One day, he had to work on the clocks in the elementary. He was in a 4th grade math class - the teacher was using apples and worms to teach addition. She had a cute little joke that made my husband snicker. He fixed the clock and then moved on to the next 4th grade math class ... guess what? The teacher was teaching the very same curriculum; all the way down to the little joke the previous teacher had told. They are robots, not by their fault but by the systems. I had favorite teachers because they had the ability to teach differently or if a friend got it but I didn't (and they had a diff teachers) we'd explain it the way we'd learned it ... it's sad these teachers are locked into this, it's sad that parents don't have the time to care and it's sad that our children aren't taught to take responsibility.. so I'm saying, I see what you're saying first hand. It's not about entertaining these kids, it's about an education; which kids that truly want one aren't getting because of those lazy loafers!

If the lesson and the joke worked on one group, why shouldn't it work for another? Have you ever tried to write lesson plans that are engaging and congruent to the objective? Teachers do it for every subject, every day. If they are repetitive from one class to another, it usually means the lesson is hitting home. It is beneficial to each class. My guess is that the teacher did a good job of engaging her students. Part of the art of teaching is recognizing when it works and when it needs to be tweaked.

Yes I write a lesson plan every month, I home school my youngest ... because the "left her behind". I teach several ASL co-op classes, so I know a bit about engaging student's and keeping them interested. You are one of those people that was uniformity and everyone to be "equal". In all my years of attending school, I have NEVER had what I described happen.

I don't want robots, I want teachers that care ...

PS they don't write their own curricula, they are given what they must teach for the year (namely the "test"). There is no creative anymore! That's why my oldest went through teachers her 5th grade year - they'd get in there and realize it wasn't what they wanted, they had not teaching freedom and "the boy upstairs" controlled everything.