Donald Trump is so going to look like a chump !

First the CNN investigation, now the release of the long form.

Bye bye Trump !

I need to see if Donald Trump's wife is here legally because I think she's a mail order bride.

LOL

This appears to be a copy of a page from a book but will it be proof enough to shut up the birthers? I doubt it. Watch the birthers come out with more dumb statements as to why this should not be accepted. They have no knowledge of the workings of the Department of Vital Statistics but call them liars.

It doesn't really matter. Obama is still a bad president, made worse by the fact that he is a socialist democrat that wants nothing more than to spend this country into financial ruin, open the doors to Mexican invaders, and pander to the unions.

You know, the one thing the birthers don't disagree with is that Obama was legally elected by a majority of Americans (and a majority of the electorate). And if he's reelected, it's the same thing.

Rather than complaining about a bad president, perhaps they should focus on complaining about bad Americans. That would be much more entertaining.

WinkWink, so wrong as always.

Obama led us out of the recession, and is working hard to reduce the deficit in a manner that it doesn't further saddle the poor and elderly. While republicans endure town hall meetings against their policies.

All you need to know about Obama's success:

Jobless Claims Graph: http://www.bullandbearwise.com/InitialJoblessChart.asp

GDP Graph: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_glance.htm

Dow Jones Graph: http://www.forecast-chart.com/stock-dow-industrial.html

Oh, come on Eric. That's not fair. You're using facts.

Birther's new argument ........ Ya, but look at the dates!!! Was Hawaii a state then?? Huh.. Huh..

So the State of Hawai'i released a copy of the document that they had been claiming could not be released to anyone. It's amazing what a little political pressure can get done. If Obama had done this two+ years ago we could have avoided all the birther nonsense. Of course the fact that it took so long to be released will have the nuts now claiming that this is a forgery. If it had been released right away two+ years ago they would not have been able to make that claim without being laughed out of the room. I do not see what the big deal was about releasing this that it took so long, but I am sure it is the real thing.

Obama did not have the authority to make the state of Hawaii do anything two+ years ago.

Besides I kind of enjoyed watching the birthers make idiots of themselves. Of course if FOX would have "reported" that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii this birther crap would died long ago.

ioh - "The economy lives and dies with average citizens and their financial choices, not with policy makers in Washington DC"

so the economy has nothing to do with Obama? glad we cleared that up.

let's put the blame where it belongs, greedy ignorant americans who dont understand the notion of UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

JS - so when the next republican president is elected, and we claim he's from outer space...and cant prove he's NOT from outer space...should that president have to respond to us crazies?

its really no different...

so if you believe its the real thing, why does it matter how long it took to release it? I mean, frankly I think it was brilliant to let the crazies come across as crazy as possible. sort of makes that side of the fence look completely incompetent come 2012...dont ya think? even more so since many of those nuts got elected in 2010...

all the evidence prior to releasing this long form answered the question of his citizenship so it was not needed. the only reason he did it now was to shut down Trump's sideshow so he could get people to focus on real issues. One thing people forget is that in this country we are supposed to be protected by the fact that we are not required to prove our innocence--someone has to prove you are guilty. It is sad that the press, Trump and 45% of republicans forgot this.

I just love it that Trump is claiming it was because of him that the WH showed the long form.

Now Donald, didn't you just say the other day that the BC was "lost"? Nowhere to be found?

The fact that Obama had to even show this is ridiculous - and even now there's STILL going to be idiots out there who STILL won't believe it! Gah!

..hope this will finally get the birthers to shut the hell up...

It's beyond pathetic that a horse had to be exhumed that had been beaten to death a long time ago. People please!

no, because birthers are a bunch of ignorant racists. And evidence never convinces the willfully stupid.

Why is he coming up with it now after spending a great deal of money to keep it a secret? Why didn't he release it 3 or 4 years ago when the issue first came up?

I don't think he knew then, that he would need it as a fall-back to garner supporters for his re-election bit. But then, I guess he really has to grasp as straws now since there are so few of his supporters left.

Retirednavyguy,
How does innocent until proven guilty apply here? He didn't commit a crime, and I don't think anyone was saying he did as far as I know. If one of the rules or prerequisites for running for president is to be born in the US, I would have expected every presidential candidate would have to have their birth certificate examined prior to being put on the ballot. Why make it a rule if no one is going to enforce it. Personally I was tired of hearing about this whole thing after the very first time, he should have just released this a long time ago and not let it been an issue. Now everyone, I hope, can move along.

The whole 'if you question or criticize the president in any way, you must be racist' argument is just as tired as that of the birthers.

I can't stand to hear Trump talk. I'm pretty sure he doesn't realize how fake he sounds. Everyone knows he put himself out there as a "birther" and now he's glad it's over because it's distracting him. How the hell does he take credit for that?

Do you need more proof that BO is nothing but a political shyster? He says he went to Columbia University, where no one in his class remembers him... Hiding his 'birth certificate' is typical of a juvenile prank, not an example of a mature adult.

Hard to believe he's actually President, isn't it? The jokes on us!

Trump needs to get a life.....he's waaaay too full of himself!

TheNiteNurse - no she isn't here legally. He bought her.

Trump is such an idiot it will be interesting to see what he goes after next. Taking credit for the release of the birth certificate? Well of course he does. He has nothing else to take credit for except 3 bankruptcies; numerous affairs- even current ones!

Really????? I don't believe anything that comes from this pres mouth so why should this be any different.

Here we have it...the first to go on record saying they refuse to believe facts. You people crack me up....almost three years demanding this document and predictably, you don't believe it when it's produced. No surprise there.

Although, I do know why his sheep believe it. Thats why they voted for a man with NO experience and that still shows even today.

No experience? At what? Being president? No one has experience at that until after they are elected. As a US senator he was:

Member, Environmental and Public Works Committee

Seems like a pretty well-rounded resume to me. Certainly better than say...Governor of Texas...or Alaska...or Trumps corporate whore resume.

Sorry obama...fool me once.....not on your life.

Oh...I doubt anyone has ever fooled someone as clever and discerning as you.

MikeD: Hey, I don't remember anyone in my college classes either!! Why does everyone insist that he should remember people. College is a busy time for most people, especially at Columbia, and they have little time to do much more than study (at least the serious students). Just because he can't remember his classmates is ridiculous!! He's got more important things to have on his mind than who he sat next to in a random class in college!!

mikeyD

You're dumb as a stump. Why don't you just say I'm a racist jerk and don't want a black president. Now that would be truthful.

Now that Obama's shared his BC, Trump, how about sharing your 2011 tax return....

Hey Didi - The really perplexing thing is that none of his classmates remember him. Does this not strike you as a little bit strange? Nobody remembers his presence at all???

Birthers....still failing.

Get ready to hound every Presidential candidate from here until the day you die for their birth certificate and don't vote for them if they don't provide it.

President slams 'silliness' of birther issue; Trump claims credit for release

The silliness was you taking this long to put out a piece of paper.

I was looking at mine the other night...my certificate has my footprints on it and hand prints...wonder why they do that with some and not others.

StangSalie- Most people dont think that simply disagreeing with the president is racist. The reason why some call birthers racists is due to the fact that no matter what evidence is put forward, they will still believe he was not born in the US. For what reason? If you dont agree with the mans political agenda then thats fine, but why stay on the birther topic? The only reason I can think of is that they want to discredit him in anyway they can. Why not resort to reason an logic in attacking his views? Wouldnt that be what most intelligent people will do? Thus leading to the racist comments because these arguements arent based on policy or ideals.

@Mnmule (#1.11)

Birther's new argument ........ Ya, but look at the dates!!! Was Hawaii a state then?? Huh.. Huh..

That made me giggle. I love a good laugh in the morning. Thanks! =D

"We're not gonna be able to solve our problems if we get distracted by sideshows and carnival barkers."

Sideshows and carnival barkers. That says it all about Republican party "leadership" - and the yahoos who step right up to see the show.

The problem with the new document is that Trump's investigators found that the hospital grounds were actually situated on land owned by the Kenyan Embassy in Hawaii! That means that President Obama was born on Kenyan soil, and his father was a Kenyan citizen. This matter is not cleared up!!!! Trump's hair has a press conference scheduled for May 15th, at which this will be revealed and Trump will announce plans for a constitutional amendment allowing him to be proclaimed Emperor! They will also announce Trump's new show "The Sorceror's Apprentice"!!!

Arky: No, I don't agree....I bet many of my classmates don't remember me either just as I don't remember them. Why would someone remember a classmate unless they were best of friends??? It IS possible, you know! Can't you find anything else to complain about? Now that his birth has been proven....you are now going to go after his educational background? What's next?

WOW!! Listen to the liberals. I hear more grumbling from them than anyone else making the claims liberals are making.

Just think... now that Obama has FINALLY released the long form, the liberals will have to shut up about the issue. They won't be able to use the term "birther" anymore and that has them upset. One of their talking points has been diminished.

The claims that the "birthers" were crazy are no longer valid. Obama should have extinguished this a long time ago. All they wanted was proof and now the proof has been produced. Remember, it was a democrat that started the birther movement. Hillary was the first to openly bring up the subject of the birth certificate... leave it to a liberal/progressive to lead the charge and then blame republicans for insisting that proof be made.

We have the Don to thank for forcing the issue out in the open and putting it to bed.

MERLIN:: you are sooo right,,these people will never learn.

i mean what more proof do they need? right?

i mean he said he was going to provide us with a transparent government,then he took all of his buddies in secret rooms and closed the doors to pass bills.

then he said he would put a stop to all the special interests and back room pay offs,,then he puts union leaders and bank CEO's and lobbiests in important places in our government without even letting the american people know about it.

then he said he would close guantanimo(sp) and that never happened

the fact is that EVERYTHING he said he would do has turned out to be a lie.

but of course it HAS to be because he is black right? it couldnt be because he is a very bad president that has lied at every turn to the american people.

no that couldnt be it at all huh? it of course HAS to be about the color of his skin and not the very bad job he has done so far.

why didnt i see it all along how racist i have been,,and to think all this time i was going by the actual job he has done so far,,hummmm my mistake i guess

thanks for sorting that out for me

Oh boy! I sure like to hear what Dumbass Trump has to say now. I wonder what would be the next low punch from the Tea Baggers, I mean everybody knows that some of the most brilliant minds of the country belong to them, you know, like Sarah Palin, Dumb Ass Trump, SRY Donald Trump just to mention 2 of them although there is a whole Pleiades of geniuses within the ranks of the party of hate A.K.A. The Tea Party, after all the earth is only 6000 years old right? Manure eaters!

Obama created this entire fiasco by steadfastly refusing to release his birth certificate in the first place. The question is: why now?

I believe he was originally content to have those “birthers” in the news because they mostly came across as fanatics. However, it seems that Trump indeed may be responsible for Obama deciding to finally release it.

Why Obama really held off on releasing his birth certificate for so long is anyone’s guess.

What I dont understand is why so many anti-obama folks resort to these ridiculous issues that just arent true? He is not an illegal alien, he is not muslim, he doesnt pal around with terrorists, he doesnt hate America, he doesnt support 'death panels'. These are all facts. Harping on any of these issue just makes you look uneducated and kind of dumb. The thing is, there's plenty of REAL stuff to dislike Obama about. Try focusing on that stuff, and people will take you seriously. You make you opponent look smart by default when you make yourself look stupid.

Sorry Didi, but if a POTUS had been in my class at college, I might not agree with him politically, but I, and quite a few of my classmates, would definitely remember his having been there. Sorry, but Columbia just ain't that big. There are lots of question marks about this man's past. Why the secrecy? To hide his ineptitude?

I'm not sure whose political theatre is worse here. Trump and his sillines, or Obama/media trying to capitalize on that silliness. He should have released the silly papers 2 years ago, why did we have to be subject to this dribble?

Wet Willy, not that the facts matter to your clan, but Obama released his official Hawaiian birth certificate in 2008. (Look at FactCheck.org, if you're not allergic to it.) You know, the same one he used to get his U.S. passport at age 26.

What he released today was a document that is NOT REQUIRED to prove citizenship and is usually not released by the State of Hawaii.

Quit whining.

Waste of time on both sides. I don't care if the Pres. is from Mars, so long as they are the best suited for the job. Let the arguments fall on that parameter.

**Yawn**

I do not consider myself a "birther", and hope that the issue is finally resolved. It doesn't matter anyway because 1) he was never going to be removed from office for this or they would have been more diligent in getting it produced before now, 2) the damage is already done.

That being said, I don't understand why it took so long to produce this document. This looks just like the one that I have. All I had to do was submit a request to the state vital statistics office with a fee and they send it to me with an embossed seal to prove it's authenticity. It took less than 2 weeks to get it and I am not the POTUS or even running for office. I had to have this to enroll in public school, register for college, get a passport. When I took the "hospital certificate" (the one with the footprints that they issue at the hospital and is not an "official" document), I was told that I had to have the "certified birth certificate" or what is being called the long form. So why did he not have to produce this initially when he became a candidate? Just asking!

On a side note, please stop with the racism BS! Can we not disagree or dislike the president based on his policies and performance? I don't care what color he is, what his religion is, what his sexual orientation is, or for that matter, where he was born, I do not like how he is performing in the job he was hired to do.

Hey Wink Wink,

Snap out of it!!! Yeah, and you Republicans want to crush the middle class. Look at these wonderful town hall meetings the Republicans have had to deal with lately. This country does not want to go down the road Ryan has planned for us.

So, now that your birther agenda has failed, let's get down to real business. Of course, the Republican's REAL BUSINESS is screwing the middle class.

I'll give it a few days in order to report this release thoroughly to all Americans, but after that I better not hear another word about this from anyone in the Mass News Media ever again.

Case dismissed. Drop it.

If Obama had done this two+ years ago we could have avoided all the birther nonsense

No we couldn't have. They're still at it now. "Birth Certificate Expert" Donald Trump claims to need to analyze it himself. Despite not being able to provide his own when he tried to.

Trump doesn't believe it, either. He's just playing to the desperate hope of idiots who aren't going to believe that he's legally the president no matter what happens. Look at how long religion has been around if you want proof that you don't need any sort of proof or validity to shape your worldview. People just believe what they want to believe. Because they're idiots.

This dog & pony show makes all the politicians in washington who have engaged in this debate (liberal & conservative), and the birthers look stupid.

They only needed to look at one factor: Is one of his parents an American citizen? The answer is "yes", so he is a citizen.

The whole argument is moot because it never mattered where he was born!!!!!

Dear MSNBC:

Why did you Collapse my Comments by the Community?

The definite poll indicates there is a huge disapproval rating of what President Obama had done; hiding his birth certificate. I only told the truth, of which many agree.

Hopefully, this is not censorship, and would like my comments to be RESTORED.

The truth; clearly not anything close to dishonoring the NCOH.

Please reconsider. Thank you. I am truly disappointed in the judgment call here.

"No experience? At what? Being president? No one has experience at that until after they are elected. As a US senator he was:

Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs

Member, Senate Foreign Relations Committee

Member, Environmental and Public Works Committee

Member, Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs

Member, Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs"

This is a joke right? What did he accomplish? He was a first term senator who did his job for 17 months then decided to run for president LOL

@Gil, quit stumping for attention and trying to Bogart the praise lavished on your friend, WinkWink.

@Jason, you make too much sense to be on this Newsvine. I agree with the premise of focusing on the performance of the POTUS rather than being sidelined by "gawk talk." It's sad that so many Americans fail to realize they are purposefully being led down a path of distraction so that all dialogue as to the real issues facing our country is simply drowned out. It's been going on for decades, so nothing new & improved, I suppose. I'm just astounded at the sheer numbers of people who've abdicated all thought and intellect to a talking box with a cable and/or rabbit ears, as the case may be, in/on it. Boggles the mind. Oh, and if not for President Obama's name, this would never have been an issue. Don't they know that the Honorable Senator John McCain HIMSELF wasn't born on American soil? Do they realize that had the election gone the other way, the birther issue would be a REAL issue for McCain? Boggles the mind.

Oh! Miked you are so slow...so.. now his grades? Like it or not he's our President and he is way better than the previous one. Get over it and let him do the job.

Look politics is politics. Obama didn't release the original for a reason. What that reason is, no body knows. That raises suspicion with me. I find it funny that republicans (top republicans) are now saying it was a waste of time for Obama to do that and it was a dead issue and so on. I am damn sure that if it had come back in a negative light they would have been all over it. Yet the same goes for those Democrats, same with the ones here. You guys are all on your high horse, but had there been an issue you, I am sure you would have made excuses.

Politics is crap honestly. Screw who is what and who you voted for. We have serious problems in our country and Obama is not steering us in the right direction. Someone said he lead us out of the Recession...well I don't know where you live but in California we are still in a hole ( and its not just our state issues either). Was Bush any better? Probably not. But he isn't in office right now and the current president is trying to force his policies on the people rather than working with and for the people which is his friggin job.

Lastly, I have seen several collapsed comments by the community and that is quite disturbing. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you should bar us all from listening (reading) what they have to say. Look at a constitution and try to imagine when it was written and why.

Look - I'm not a "birther" and never was. I didn't vote for the guy, but I have been hoping for the best all along. However, this DOES bring up some significant issues:

1. Why is it not an automatic requirement for every candidate to present proof of citizenship in a manner that is publically available? We make such a big deal about Trump having to show us his finanical records (who cares?) IF he runs, but we don't INSIST on proof of birth (US citizenship REQUIRED)? I don't get that. Note that I don't count this as an Obama issue, but rather a Governmental issue overall.

2. If the administration had this all along, why not show it right away and get on with it? It takes two to Tango, so knowing you have it and not showing it is half of the agitation that has caused all the devisiveness. Instead of bringing the country together, at least a little, Obama's administration has needlessly caused further divide. Frankly, even though I didn't vote for him - I didn't think badly of him, until now and because of this specific reason. He's no better than all the "off-the-wall" media moguls that keep whipping the American public into this tit-for-tat dialogue. We need to find ways to come together, not spread apart. I implore Obama supporters to question their leader on this specific issue. Definitely not how a leader should act. Frankly, I would have felt better knowing that he withheld the information because he KNEW there was actually a PROBLEM with it. Knowing that there was no problem but holding it back anyways was far more damaging IMHO.

3. I have heard numerous times, most recently a few days ago, that the administration said the reason they did not provide a long form is that Hawaii does not provide it, and therefore, one did not exist. So, now we have it. Does that mean they have been lying all this time? Or did they create it now based on old information? Those are really the only 2 options. Say it isn't so!

I didn't really care about this issue before now. With this new information, I care very deeply. To me, this looks very bad for Obama - at least in my eyes.

WinkWinkRestored

It doesn't really matter. Obama is still a bad president, made worse by the fact that he is a socialist democrat that wants nothing more than to spend this country into financial ruin, open the doors to Mexican invaders, and pander to the unions.

Are you kidding me? You mod's restore this?!?!? You mods are laughable at best.

Obama released the legal birth certificate provided by the state of Hawaii long, long ago. It's the same document that anyone else would use to obtain a passport, etc.

That should have been enough. It would be enough for anyone else.

In my opinion, Obama was right to produce the legal document and let the whack jobs make fools of themselves for 2.5 years. Engaging people like birthers is not, and will never be, productive. There will always be a new conspiracy, a new claim.

And quite frankly, yes -- I do believe there's a considerable aspect of racism involved, at least for some of the birthers. No matter what legal proof of Obama's constitutional qualification for the office of POTUS -- let's face it, he's the very first black POTUS in the country's history, and it just wasn't that long ago that we still had separate rest rooms and drinking fountains in a large chunk of this country. I've lived through that and I'm not that old. A lot of people alive then are still around now, and many of them are still pissed off.

So an issue like this is fertile ground for them.

The birthers are followers of the philosophical branch of the skepticism that has derived to thousands of discoveries, and now this last, the revelation of the birth certificate of the President of the United States, which for more than two years was jealously kept in secret by unknown reasons.. Like it or not Obama has been surrendered to the demands of Donald Trump who planned to send an army of investigators to Hawaii, now he victorious will ride his horse to his megalomaniac world of presidential dreams.

I'm sure the ignorant or trouble-making Right-Wing Birthers will find something wrong with this, too. The bigots just can't stand that a minority male won the presidency position away from the white male supremacy so easily with a wide margin. Their minds were made up long before the election took place. The thoroughly disgusting, false, racial hatred e- mails made poking jokes towards the entire family about their heritage long before the election even took place. It would have been no different if the person had been a female in the office as the President; but it is far worse when the President is a black male, who by the way inherited a tremendously huge economical mess from a white Texan Republican male. Now that Obama did win and wants to help others in his own country, the Republicans are even more determined to cut all aid to the poor, middle class, and elderly in order to make sure that the power and control remains in the hands of the wealthy and corporate elite with the rest of us serving to their demands and low salaries without a voice or representative.

Apparently calling yourselves patriots is an attempting to prevent other Americans from laughing at your stupidity disguised as reasonable discernment. Here are some facts that show the continued controversy was based in simple, racist unwillingness to accept the election of a black president.

#1 - Despite what some idiots keep claiming, NO previous presidential candidate has been asked or required to provide documentation of their birthplace, except the black guy.

#2 - John McCain, the opposing candidate in the 2008 election was NOT BORN WITH THE BOUNDARIES OF THE UNITED STATES, he was born in Panama, yet he was not asked to provide documentation to prove his citizenship; but he was white, not black.

#3 - As most of our armed forces who serve or have served overseas know, (including my father) a child born of an American citizen ANYWHERE in the world, is an American citizen by BIRTH - ergo, a 'natural born citizen'. Except, I guess, the black ones.

#4 - During the 2008 campaign, Obama DID release the birth documentation that is routinely supplied by Hawaii state policy in response for requests for same. It was and is posted online at FactCheck.org. If it had been anyone else, that would have sufficed. Remember, John McCain was not born in America and never released HIS birth certificate? WHY NOT? He's white and was never asked. From this point on, especially given repeated statements by Hawaiian officials' (including the REPUBLICAN then-Governor!) that Obama's long-form certificate was on file and legitimate, the issue should have ended. And it would have if the questions had been raised about, oh, say, John McCain! Everything since then is the responsibility of people like yourself. Obama was not responsible for any further documentation beyond that.

#5 - No matter where he or his mother lived after his birth, or for how long, or whether or not he was adopted by his step-father, his citizenship from being born of an American citizen mother was never invalidated.

#6 - Obama was respecting 'states rights' by not pressuring Hawaii to violate its laws and regulations related to long form / short form birth documents. That's something conservatives like you supposedly respect and approve of. Had he used the power of his office to force a state to violate its own long-standing policy regarding anything else, you would have been on him like a swarm of killer bees about THAT, too.

So, now that you and others like you have been shown up for the racists you are, don't try the lame stunt of trying to rationalize your willful blindness on anyone else.

The fact is that this was disrespectful of the man and the office of the Presidency to a level unprecedented in this country's history.

And history will hold you all in contempt and laugh at you and your stupidity and deluded racism, no matter how long or hard you attempt to live in denial of it.

For the record, I am a white person, and not a Democrat.

It's not Obama's duty or moral responsibility to address every criticism and conspiracy theory members of the American public lob at him. The fact is, you birthers were FLAT WRONG. Yet, I don't see a single one of you accepting responsibility for the fact you kicked up an issue and turned out to be moot. Why isn't Donald Trump APOLOGIZING for what he did? If you make an accusation to someone and it turns out to be false, you are the one responsible and in error and you owe them a serious apology.

Why don't you take responsibility for your actions, birthers, instead of still trying to kick it back on Obama for the length of time he took to release it. I thought you were the party of "personal responsibility." Pathetic.

I won't believe this fabricated birth certificate until I see the video of him coming out his mother's womb with the doctor receiving him and then slapping his butt followed by his father in the background giving the "thumbs up" while smiling ear to ear. Then the video would have to include them filling out the "real" birth certificate with them signing it.

My comment is so far down this thread, I'm afraid no one will see this - but I want the whole world to hear this...

Obama could have been reasonable and extinguished this fire by authorizing the release of this document a LONG time ago. He CHOSE to NOT do it. What the hell for????????????????????? What gain would there be by allowing the "birther" debate to grow? Look beyond the "us against them" crap this vine falls into every time and ask yourself, was there gain in allowing the debate to rage as far as it has? The answer is "YES", there was much to gain by allowing the debate to go out of control - for Obama and more importantly, the Democratic party itself.

This matter could have been put to rest years ago, instead, a decision was made to allow the matter to grow, knowing those throwing gas on the fire would be those from the right. All of a sudden, this president plays dumb and says he can't believe the matter has gone this far. Mr. Obama, do you know how stupid you look to the entire planet in this matter. You are no fool. I give you all the credit you deserve, but you just look dumb on this one!

But now, Mr. President, you can say things like 'is that all they had?', 'why did they drag this out for so long?', 'it's time for the Republicans to move on'?. This is complete and utter nonsense to divide this country further. You had the opportunity to give the ultra right what they wanted a long time ago, but by your intentional neglect in addressing, YOU caused this to be more than it ever should have been!

I sure wish I could have a one-on-one conversation with Mr. Obama so I could tell him how I really feel, but I don't think it would accomplish anything. No one is trying to bring a nation together any more. They are all in it for 1. Themselves... 2. Their party. Those of us in the middle get screwed more and more every day.

Arky,

there's plenty of records of Obama's two years at Occidental College, in L.A., before he transferred to Columbia. I don't know what records or remembrances of him there are there. I didn't go to Columbia. Here's a link to a photo exhibit of some casual pictures that a dorm mate shot of him as a photography project. She, of course did not know at that time what his future held.

http://laist.com/2009/05/28/pencil_this_in_263.php

You can also just google "Obama at Oxy" and get a bunch more, or enlarged versions of some of these, but why bother to do any research when you can just go on continuing to spout your crackpot theories?

Realamericansfirst 1.61

You say this document is not required to prove citizenship, eh? I’m certainly no authority on determining the authenticity of or legitimacy of documents and apparently neither are you which is why I rely on others to make these determinations. So, if you think this isn’t a document required to prove citizenship, answer the following:

Why does the document heading read: “Certificate of Live Birth”

Why is this very liberal MSNBC article title state: Obama reveals full birth certificate”

Finally, why is it that MSNBC and pretty much all the other news organizations consider this “birth Certificate” to finally put to rest the question of Obama’s citizenship status?

My clan indeed. At least my handle isn’t an oxymoron.

joe -2768962

i think obama thinks he is special,

Bet you think he's "uppity" too, Joe?

People are actually posting short comments saying "If it's real, why doesn't it have his footprints on it?"

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

It amazes me that some Americans are incapable of seeing beyond the obvious. I don't believe Trump ever really thought Obama was not a citizen, I do believe he wanted to test him, especially since he is looking to run for re-election. And whether you wish to accept it, Trump got the President to do exactly what he wanted and succeeded. Unfortunately, the President failed miserably. He yielded to a millionaire's influence. No true leader can yield to the ridiculous so easily and he did. The President needs to get a thicker skin and speak out to this directly and not indirectly. I truly believe that's what Trump was trying to get out of the President and did not. I've been disappointed with my decision to elect Obama because of his lack of strength as President...He needs to push back and stand up, even if it does not align to some citizens' position on issues....

Isn't it about time that the hard working class of Americans vote all of the ignorant, racially bigoted, greedy self -serving, unpatriotic politicians out of office for good??

Contrari neither statement is correct so both options are wrong. The certification of live birth is a document used to proove your birth here in the US. That was provided at the time he ran for President, and has been available since day one. Our court systems including radical John Roberts believed he was born in the US, his opposing candidates believed he was born in the US, and if anyone should have the right to question it is the man who lost to him McCain but he never did, FBI and CIA etc. believe he was born in the US and approved him very high level of security clearance. What did they have the certification of live birth. Right on the paper it says for all court proceedings.

Wet Willy - you know, in order to vote, you should do your basic duty as an American citizen and do at least a minimal amount of research before you form an opinion. Although I realize that's not how the GOP works, but it should.

And you should be more careful about which "others" you "rely on to make these determinations."

Some states' OFFICIAL form of birth certificate is titled "Birth Certificate". Those states sometimes also issue a non-official version called "Certificate of Live Birth" that is cheaper, quicker and doesn't require as much documentation to obtain. ("short form")

Other states, like Hawaii, only have one form. And in some of these states (not just Hawaii) the official form is titled "Certificate of Live Birth". It's just as valid as the "Birth Certificate" issued by other states - there's no national law about what it has to be called. Obama's Hawaii certificate was accepted to issue his U.S. passport long before he was President. BECAUSE it is the official form for Hawaii.

There is only ONE "original" birth certificate - and Hawaii usually does not hand it out because there's only ONE. They give out LEGAL copies, and those are the short form in Hawaii. Obama went back and got special permission to get a copy of his long form, but that is NOT REQUIRED to prove citizenship, obtain a U.S. passport or any other legal purpose because the SHORT FORM is the LEGAL Hawaiian birth certificate. (And they can call it "Certificate of Live Birth", and that doesn't change its legality one whit.)

Sorry that the laws are so confusing to ya'll. But that's what you get when you have a republic and not a single centralized government. I thought you all hated the idea of that.

Hey Winkwink - I supported your post and they collapsed me too. (No surprise there!)

Glad you were restored.

(Now Trump is calling for the college transcripts. That could be even funnier than the birth certificate!)

To satisfy those who have time to waste on idiotic issues, next on the agenda is to release Trump's birth certificate. Do they keep records of hatchlings?

SwimMom said

"On a side note, please stop with the racism BS! Can we not disagree or dislike the president based on his policies and performance? I don't care what color he is, what his religion is, what his sexual orientation is, or for that matter, where he was born, I do not like how he is performing in the job he was hired to do."

It IS racist for people to assume that Obama can't possibly be a American citizen because he is a black person. or am i missing something?

Look at the date on the certificate APR-25-2011? Why was this never produced before he took office, over two years now. About as phony as BHO and his claim to CHANGE!

It is so fun to see the battle between the birthers and the faithers when we there are more important issues to worry about, debt, jobs, 3 wars, weak dollar, price of gas, inflation, no energy policy other than war to oil. Republicans don't need a birth certificate to win an election, this country is going in the wrong direction and this is more than enough.

The legal certificate was produced over two years ago. That should have been the end of it. Obama did the right thing - he ignored the stupidity as long as possible.

Ok, so now you have the long form of the birth certificate (still not enough). He published the short form in 2008...(that wasn't enough). Now your attacking his college education...wow....you people are sad.

Oh and as far as him doing what he said he would do...he's done it and more....thank goodness for Healthcare reform, thank goodness for saving our economy. While jackasses have been downing his every move, he's been working.

Now what do you have to complain about?

Arky.....how could anyone in his college have KNOWN that he was going to eventually be elected President of the United States? There was NO reason while he was in college that anyone would have to remember him. I have several classmates that I've been told are famous....I don't remember ANY of them although it's been said that I should. Give me a break!!

WinkWink:

You obviously must have been thinking of Bush as the bad President, who started the 2 wars without money to pay for them, who spent the surplus money as soon as he took the Oath of Office, who ran the economy into the ground, who "Bailed Out" his banker buddies, etc., etc., and then finally handed over the big mess to Obama. It might help if people try doing some accurate research for the truth with both eyes open rather than listening to the frequent pandering put out by a Party.

Look at the date on the certificate APR-25-2011? Why was this never produced before he took office, over two years now.

Jeezus H fricken Christ! The date Apr25, 2011 is two days ago. That's the date of the photocopying of the document, the text stamped right next to the date says "This is a certified copy of blah, blah, blah..."

"Oh, but then this is just another copy!! We want the original document!!"

The "original document" stays in the files. No one gets the original. What part of this do you not understand?

Two things - The first is that both the Nordyke twins and Obama were born at the same hospital, yet their certs show different addresses for the hospital. Why?

Second - Obama was born August 4th, 1961, the day before the Nordyke twins whose birth certs have been posted on the internet - and yet his certificate registration number is higher than those given to the Nordyke twins (thier's are 10637 & 10637, Obama's is 10641) which would indicate that he was born after the Nordyke twins.

Just sayin' - sumthin' to think about....

YES!! I struck a nerve! 1.50 collapsed! Leave it to the liberals to collapse posts that have no violations in them. Liberals find anything opposing their viewpoints offensive. Success!! I wonder how many clicked on inflammatory vs no value... LOL... Liberals - you gotta love em.

Rorschach - I politely disagree. If this president wanted to unite the country, he would address the things that are driving us apart. He chose to ignore the issue (intentionally) for his personal gain. If this would have come out 2 years ago, many concerned Americans (myself included) would have let this go. He Chose to keep it going for political gain - nothing more - nothing less.

Sorry Loli and others,

But it actaully does matter if the president was born in this country, for any other office he just needs to be a citizen, but the presidency requires a natural born citizen, period. He would have to removed from office if it turned out he was'nt. I believe that president Obama was "naturally born" in the U.S., but to discount the neccessity of his proving his origins shows ignorance of our laws.

Personally I think this is just silly political theatre coming from both sides. Conservatives who are hung up on this blather need to move on, and Obama, liberals and the left leaning media need to stop using this particular (and other) convenient fiction to paint the entire conservative movement with this hype for their own political gain.

So, the point really was that some people don't like the President, and they wanted to latch onto a non-issue, but it really didn't matter because they still don't like the President. Therefore proving that providing the birth certificate was useless. Because they aren't listening anyway.

Yes, that's why if you are thinking conservative, Birthers are and have been, pointless. And they will be pointless in any upcoming election, because they aren't changing their minds anyway. Is is a surprise politicians ignore them as much as they can?

The release of this document a couple years after it was asked for only creates more controversy - like 'who killed JFK'. Evidence delayed is evidence questioned. The President stalled on this matter for his gain (a brilliant chess move). So now it is time to move on... Again, why didn't this concerned leader have the fore site to release this a couple years ago(regardless of his PRIDE) in order to bring dividing sides together? Instead of healing wounds, salt is abundantly applied to injuries to make the pain worse. Thank you Mr. President for bringing us all together!

Realamericanfirst 1.90

If you go back and read my post again you should discover that I stated I am not any kind of authority on the validity and or purpose of such documents and further more, I have no inclination to do any such research into the specific purpose and weight of such documents. I’m inclined to rely on news accounts (MSNBC and the others) for this because it really never was all that important to me as I’d prefer to waste my time on things I consider more relevant or engaging.

So you see, the laws aren’t all that confusing, I simply considered this entire fiasco to be not very interesting to me at all.

Regarding this country being a republic, nope, we are a democracy. It seems Ben Franklin’s words were indeed prophetic and we couldn’t keep it since you progressives usurped the republic concept long ago. Tragically, few noticed.

I'm going to go really slow here, because apparently some still don't get it...

Obama did release the appropriate copy of his birth certificate, which provided proof of his citizenship, a long, long, time ago. "Birthers" chose not to accept that because it was the form that ALL HI's residents are given, as opposed to the original. The originals (or long versions) are kept on the books in the state's archives. Everyone from the former Republican Governor on down, who had any say so in the matter (including Hilary Clinton & John McCain who had the most access to resources & the most to lose) ALL agreed he was a citizen.

So stop with the finally, and what took him so long. Apparently the standards the Federal Government and the US Constitution have in place are not high enough for the "Birthers".

And I'm glad he held off showing this long version. Idiocy and assinine rantings shouldn't be pandered to. Especially when you know they're just gonna up the ante next time. What's next, huh? Obama eats babies for breakfast?

Also, stop with the "All presidential candidates should have to do this." I've yet to find a "Birther" who can answer, when, how, and in what form any of the prior presidents have proved their citizenship. But here's a hint, the same way Obama proved his long ago, which you all refused to accept. So no, are you overtly, KKK, racist, probably not. However, I am willing to bet you're closet racists. You know, it's such a faux pas to be bigotted, but you just can't stand that those coloreds are so lazy.

And no, this will not satifsy you people. Just like everything in "crazy, blackboard, conspiracy, land" you will never be satisfied, because the whole essence of any conspiracy is that shady, powerful, people are behind it. Which means they can produce or make disappear anything they want in your minds, and that in turn keeps the conspiracy locked in the perpetual cycle of insanity.

And by insanity I mean batsh(#$*, lick the windows, hide the scissors, if Charlie Sheen and Gahdaffi had a baby, CRAZY!

Sarah,

It won't help to go slow. They will still continue like kids running around with their fingers in their ears screaming NAH, NAH, NAH

As many times as it's been posted on these boards, that his birth certificate has been available for years, they won't hear. Factcheck.org actually went to Hawaii viewed the original, photographed it, they are available on the net, with the engraved stamped seal clearly seen in close up detail. Do you think they even go look, or it's just a dodge. Trump has already said that he needs to examine it himself and then have experts examine it, so expect to have them screamed for that by this group. There is proof on line AGAIN that there were people who remembered him at Columbia, including his roommate. But will they check, no. Do they believe it because Donald repeats it, yes. I realize that it's useless to even address these people any more.

The sad thing is that while everyone focuses on this ridiculousness, the Republicans particularly, the House, and many states are passing some incredibly horrific bills that have disastrous impacts on us all. The Republicans used this diversion with the Swift boaters, and with Mc Cain's black baby when he was running against Bush. Everyone reacted, and focused only on that. I wish someone would pay attention to the budget President Obama released, and have some type knowledgeable discussion, but that would require some actual cognitive, analytical skill and the boys from the south and others don't seem to be able to do that. I wouldn't care, except they also are allowed to vote. One doesn't have to agree with me on voting, but at least do it with a little valid information and research, instead of letting viral Emails make your decision for you.

You folks use the word "birther" like it was the "F"-bomb. To compare the birth of Obama to any past president is apples to oranges. Clinton's father was not a Kenyan citizen, and Clinton did not spend a considerable amount of his early childhood living in a foreign nation. Same for any recent president..........

Then you call names and say how anyone who would question this lacks 'cognitive, analytical skill'. There you go again, building relationships within your own small circle, instead of figuring out how we will get along and function as a cohesive populace in the future. Maybe some day the other half of our U.S. population will say how right YOU were, but with your CONSTANT demeaning attitude, it won't be said today.....

concernedone

,,,"If this would have come out 2 years ago, many concerned Americans (myself included) would have let this go. He Chose to keep it going for political gain"

I'm not sure where you see anything resembling political gain for Obama in the whole ridiculous ordeal. It was a constant noise, constant distraction and part of a broad-scale campaign to discredit the guy by any means possible. Gain for the GOP/opposition? Until now, sure enough, since the goal was to sow/encourage doubt and distrust --

--- for political gain.

I sincerely hope that the rest of your comment, accusing Obama of dividing the country, is meant as a joke. If you're serious, I politely ask you to rewind the last two point five years and watch again, this time with Fox turned off. Somehow, "Muslim", "Socialist", "Communist", "Kenyan", "Hates America" and "Hell NO!" don't seem like olive branches from where I sit.

Wet Willy- Really!?! You say you dont want to do research on the validity of documents, then state you rely on others to provide you with your information, so basically your stating that your lazy and believe what your told by the talking heads rather than relying on your own researching skills. Sounds like most republicans to me. Then this little gem pops out of your mouth:

Regarding this country being a republic, nope, we are a democracy.

This country is NOT a Democracy. Further more it is not a Republic either. Im tired of idiots posting things as facts without actually knowing the truth! Pick up a government book people, middle school text would be the best suited for you if you dont have the basic understandings.

The United States Government is considered a Constitution-based federal republic; with strong democratic tradition. What this means is that we have a federation of republic states that are bounded by the constitution.

Rorschach - I've watched about 1/2 hour of Fox news in my entire life. I have never heard Glen Beck speak, and have only heard Rush speak a couple times, but couldn't stand the hard line stance he took on EVERYTHING! If there are any others that come to your mind, I can almost guarantee I've never listened to them either. So your continued attack continues to divide us.

I call it like I see it. I'm a realist. I'm about as middle of the road as you will hope for. This situation could have been easily avoided and you know it. If proving you are correct and on the high ground is pandering to your enemy, this nation is lost! That is the way I see it. If your "side" can't reach even a guy like me standing squarely in the middle of the aisle, how do you expect to reach beyond and function as a nation?

The noise and distraction as you call it was the political process in action. Too bad it was handled so poorly early on. The ball was squarely in the Democratic court, and the return volley was wide left!

Birthers are stipping the Republican Party of all the dignity it once had.

Concerned -- Perspective is a strange thing, since we both seem to consider ourselves middle of the road, but see this so differently. (That said, the more noise the fringe right makes and the more extreme the GOP becomes, the farther they push me to the left out of sheer disgust -- but that is another discussion.)

As a centrist/moderate, I personally don't see what obligated Obama to kowtow to the birther wingnuts. He gave them the very same legal BC that anyone else would provide -- not good enough? If it would get me a passport, establish my identity anywhere, why not his? Then, the wingnuts were cooking up laughable forgeries "proving" his "Kenyan birth". The circus just kept adding rings.

At what point does a rational person reach the conclusion that engaging with crazy people only makes everybody look crazy?

And at what point does engaging with these nut cases have the opposite effect -- defending oneself ends up looking... defensive. That's also something the opposition is going to trumpet to the highest.

In all of my life I've never seen anyone's essential citizenship trashed as far as these people have attempted to trash Obama's. He's taken the high road all the way, as far as I'm concerned. Give those trash any attention and you've given them a win. They aren't worth it and they don't deserve his time -- or anyone's, for that matter.

So now it's time for the Birther Bunkers to find themselves another side show distracting clown stunt now that they've made themselves the laughing stock of fools. The Party might try finding a serious and qualified candidate first and finally getting down to some real work, which is why they were sent to Congress in the first place. And for those three time bankruptcy losers, try sticking to the entertainment business, and stop interfering with the limited work that is being accomplished in D.C. That's all our country needs is a person with so many bankruptcies, since we are in the whole enough as it is.

Concerned,

I'm afraid logical, coherent, reasonable arguments don't often register very well on MSNBC. When passionate feelings take over, those on the left lose all perspective. I believe (have always believed) the President was born in Hawaii, but it is not irrational to question his behavior on the issue. Nor is it a trivial thing where you are born as concerns the Presidency; You must be a natural born citizen to be president, period.

I repeat:

"I'm not sure whose political theatre is worse here. Trump and his silliness, or Obama/dems/media trying to capitalize on that silliness. He should have released today's papers 2 years ago, why did we have to be subject to this dribble?"

Rorscach,

Your post claiming to be a "centrist/moderate" kinda insults my intelligence.

Todays so-called fringe extreme conservative looks an awful lot like JFK, so please don't give us this extreme right wing blather. Today's conservative believes in smaller government and has basically the same social values most of the country (including democratic politicains) believed in 10 years ago.

The democratic party has gone to the left, on both issues. If you can't see that you are either blind or you are lieing to yourself.

Answer me this about the budget;

We have not experienced any noticeable inflation in 12 years (Clinton years). Our budget looked great (balanced) back then. Tell me, what is it you believe we so desperately need government to provide today that we did'nt have back then? Because, aside from the wars (another argument) we are spending three times as much as we were then. On what? What is so "extreme" about the mere suggestion to cut our government's ridiculous, unaccounted for, out of control spending? Was grannie sleeping on the streets back then? Were children dieing for lack of governemntal protection and care? Why can't liberals have a rational conversation about these issues without demonizing those they disagree with?

Tod-2791955

Rorscach,

Your post claiming to be a "centrist/moderate" kinda insults my intelligence.

Todays so-called fringe extreme conservative looks an awful lot like JFK, so please don't give us this extreme right wing blather.

Laughable, an insult to JFK, more pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain rhetoric from a bunch of -- let me say this deliberately so that there's no misunderstanding...

Whack jobs.

I rest my case; I offer a logical, coherent, rational argument and the post back is a rational response? No. A coherent counter argument? No. Logical discourse,? Nope, none of that.

You get "laughable" and "whack job". Rhors, all you've succeeded in doing is; insult your own intelligence. Enjoy your bubble, your college professor would be so proud.

Rescue dogs: "the Republicans particularly, the House, and many states are passing some incredibly horrific bills that have disastrous impacts on us all"

Please do share with us; what are these "incredibly horrific bills" of which you post, and how are they going to drastically impact us? Cause, I kinda think you just made that up to pretend at being informed. So, back it up!!

Tod etc,

You're calling a comparison of today's Republican Party with John F. Kennedy rational?

I was around for JFK. I know better. You're either hopelessly misinformed, a paid rebranding marketing shill for the GOP -- or a liar. Pick one.

You may be able to sell your revision-history garbage to the young, highly suggestible, or simply stupid -- but it won't work with me.

Kinda funny how the GOP's decided that the best way to re-brand itself and hide their renewed love affair with the John Birch Society is to declare JFK their hero. Even funnier when you consider that the Birch Society had JFK labeled as a Communist.

In fact, when you read the following handbill distributed by Birchers in Dallas when Kennedy arrived on Nov 21, 1963, the content of that Bircher handbill sounds rather familiar. It sounds just like the crap that circulates today re: Obama.

As follows:

(M1) Wanted for Treason, a handbill published by supporters of the John Birch Society and handed out in Dallas before President John F. Kennedy arrived on his visit (November, 1963)

1. Betraying the Constitution (which he swore to uphold). He is turning the sovereignty of the US over to the Communist controlled United Nations. He is betraying our friends (Cuba, Katanga, Portugal) and befriending our enemies (Russia, Yugoslavia, Poland).

2. He has been WRONG on innumerable issues affecting the security of the US (United Nations, Berlin Wall, Missile Removal, Cuba, Wheat deals, Test Ban Treaty, etc.).

3. He has been lax in enforcing the Communist Registration laws.

4. He has given support and encouragement to the Communist-inspired racial riots.

5. He has illegally invaded a sovereign State with federal troops.

6. He has consistently appointed Anti-Christians to Federal office. Upholds the Supreme Court in Anti-Christian rulings. Aliens and known Communists abound in Federal offices.

7. He has been caught in fantastic LIES to the American people (including personal ones like his previous marriage and divorce).

Im sorry, but why am I supposed to care what the John Birch Society thinks about anything, especially JFK? That was a whole lot of irrelevant blathering. Stay on point.

Tell you what? Here are 5 of today's top issues 2 fiscal, 3 social. You tell me how JFK would line up.

1) Big government (cradle to grave entitlements)

2) The military (uses of, homosexuality, women in combat, funding of)

3) gay marriage, gay rights

4) civil rights

5) abortion

I don't really care what works with you, and yeah I call it a rational comparison. As far as me revising history, I'm just trying to look at it through non-biased eyes, based on a president's stated platforms and production. I have a minor in history, and was around durring JFK, though I was pretty young when he was killed. So, once again stay on point, and awy from personal attacks of my character. Go after the intelligence/logic of my comments all you want, but seriously, you on the left need to stop questioning the motives/character of those you disagree with; Grow up!!

My comparison of JFK to today's republican is neither "laughable" nor "whack job". Sure it lies in the realm of opinion, but it is at least based on some historical thought rather what some society thinks. The rest of my post is not opinion based, so tell me what is so extreme about those views. And please don't give me quotes from Donald, Beck, John Birch Society folks or any other people you despise, I really don't care what they think, or what you think of them.

Tod,

You aren't interested in discussion: you're looking for a fight.

Let me give you an example. You cite "big government". JFK argued in favor of universal health care. The disconnect between your bizarre view of JFK and reality is rather obvious, and you'll still deny it - so why bother?

You're really not worth the effort. Seriously.

DNFTT.

DNFTT huh? Yeah I read about that one, and to some extent I agree with the sentiment, but in this case it "is rather obvious" you just pulled that card because don't have a coherent argument. So be it, though I would love to see your reference that backs up "JFK's universal health care plan", so I could actually compare it to today's Dem and Rep plans.

Here, Tod. From the man's own lips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14A1zxaHpD8

And with that, you are on ignore. Have a nice day.

I actually read the transcripts of his Madison Square Gardens speech 15 minutes ago, and learned something. I assume that is what you are referencing. I have to say its apples to oranges though, it's like arguing for S.S. before there was any type of Social Security, he even makes that analogy. In 1962 there was no health care insurance, and Kennedy's plan made sense, helth care cost could devestate a family, and did for many. Do you believe he would argue for the same today, with medicare, medicaid, and all of other entitlement programs government is supporting, and the majority of our citizens having private or public health care insurance?

Do you actually believe JFK would support, let alone propose a budget that borrows at least 1/3 of our yearly expenditures 10 years out (big government).

Go ahead ignore, but you are not being honest with yourself. You have had two reasonable people counter your over the top opinions on this post. You have answered both with petty character assasinations and no concrete arguments.

First off Tod, your starting out all wrong.

Sorry Loli and others,

But it actaully does matter if the president was born in this country, for any other office he just needs to be a citizen, but the presidency requires a natural born citizen, period.

NO it doesnt matter where he was born. His mother was a citizen therefore he is a natural born citizen. Natural born citizen: also known as a CITIZEN AT BIRTH.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

• Anyone born inside the United States *
• Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
• Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
• Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
• Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
• Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
• Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
• A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

You have answered both with petty character assasinations and no concrete arguments.

Love how you try to say all rorschach does is insult you without arguments, yet you attacked him first.

I'm afraid logical, coherent, reasonable arguments don't often register very well on MSNBC. When passionate feelings take over, those on the left lose all perspective.

Like the arguements of your fellow birthers? Its funny that you say this about those on the left, but its your side that didnt use this logic, coherent, reasonable thought to understand that this subject is just a distraction coming FROM YOUR SIDE. Then you attack the President because he didnt bow to your will sooner. LOL I love how this is all the rights fault, yet they blatently try to blame Obama for the distraction. You people arent fooling anyone except yourselves!

He should have released today's papers 2 years ago, why did we have to be subject to this dribble

Ask your side of the isle genius, they are the ones that wouldnt let it go. Obama showed all that was necessary to be considered for the presidency 2 years ago.

Today's conservative believes in smaller government and has basically the same social values most of the country (including democratic politicains) believed in 10 years ago.

The democratic party has gone to the left, on both issues. If you can't see that you are either blind or you are lieing to yourself.

This is laughable! Where do you get this trash? This coming from the people who perpetuated the birther argument. The republicans want smaller government so there is less oversight for corporations and with a smaller govt they will have less taxes. Then you say they have the same social values?!?!?! Your out of your mind! HOW can you claim this when they are trying to desroy medicare and medicaid? Thats the complete opposite of what democrats wanted 10 years ago. You must be lieng to yourself again.

Sorry pete but its a lot more complex than you are making it out to be.

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person

(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph.

If (As I mentioned before; the whole argument was silly from both sides) President Obama was not born in Hawaii, it would have hit the fan. Challenges to his legitimacy would have been legally and appropriately made, Do you deny that? It also would have opened back up the dual citizenship avenue. I don't support or care about the issue, it was soved for me two years ago, but it is not a ridiculous notion, nor is it a new one (check into past presidents birth challenges). If I recall, the entire issue was first raised durring the primarys by the Clintons.

The rest of your post is opinion, and you are welcome to it. I will continue to comment on the inteligence/logic of MSNBC posters and your ilk will continue to question the motives/character of those you disagree with, thats just what many of you do (though some conservatives are prone to that emotional response also). I can take it!!

for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years

So she could have been 16 years old, 2 of which were after attaining the age of fourteen. So no it wouldnt have hit the fan. Just like all these other conspiracy theories you wanna play what if. Thats fine, but dont be surprised that people dont take your other views seriously after hearing you give claim to this non-sense.

The fact that in the face of all this evidence, some still choose not to believe it, gives me cause to question their motives and character, does it not?

AND The site where I got the insert from the constitution left the part out about

a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:

I have seen many try to claim that it states five years after the age of 16 and I wondered where they got this from, and that explains it.

Also, I tried researching some past presidential birth challenges but Obama dominated all the articles. So I will have to check on this later and get back to you with my thoughts. If you could provide some places to look that would help.

It's all the right has. They don't have a candidate to run against him, so demean his character.

AP-1414066

If reason, proof, documentation, and intelligence had anything to do with the nonsensical birther conspiracy theories, this would have already been put to rest.

If reason, proof, documentation, and intelligence had anything to do with the nonsensical birther conspiracy theories, it never would have started. Is Graham, Trump and the rest of the political trolls going to accept this or continue to look like idiots?

I've never been worried about where he was born. What I want to know is how he got back into the United States after his Mom left him in Indonesia and had him removed from her Passport as a rider/dependent.

It would only be fair for you to show us your documentation to your claims since Obama showed his. Please post your proof.

Well, as Reagan would say, here we go again. statements without fact.

montanajelly - somehow I doubt you "never really cared about where he was born" before he provided the proof the whack jobs were crying for.

she probably smuggled him back in like a kangaroo in a belly pouch. yeah, that makes sense. right?

Montana, at least the cows are sane!

Er... Montana... it doesn't matter if she had him on her passport as a dependent.

You know why? Huh? Do you know?

Because.... he's a natural born citizen of the United States - THAT'S WHY!

That means he gets his OWN Passport saying that... YES! He's a natural born citizen of the US! Cool, hunh?

Wait, he's a II? Oh the lies, the betrayal....I would of so loved to be able to call him Junior.

The problem is these idiot birthers don't know that Hawaii is a state! I swear I had one of these backwoods morons tell me "he wasn't born in America, he was born in Hawaii!"

Califigna: Wait he's a 11? Ah yes, I raised my eyebrow as well.....

I never had any doubts about his place of birth until I read the 11 after his name. Now I'm wondering about his years in Indonesia. Did his stepfather adopt him?

The birthers were not crazy. The whole thing seemed odd.

But cudo's to the President for solving the problem.

Good show Pres

it was never a question to me that he was considered a citizen when he was born... the question is why the hell was he, none of his parents where citizens and he was raised in another country for part of his life.

the stipulation for "natural born" should be that at least one parent is a citizen

@The Serpent

the reason they raise the Hawaii question is because Hawaii wasn't a state until 1959 and Obama was born in 1961, just 2 years after it became a state and was, to my understanding, a place that would have been easy to sneak across the border to give birth <like Obamas parents did.

after all, if me and my wife gave birth on your yard dose that make us legal tenants of your land

Unbelievable.

c1c: How many times does one have to tell you that he is a U.S. Citizen because his mother was a U.S. Citizen? Can you get that drilled into your thick skull??? Please look at the birth certificate to see where SHE was born!! If ONE parent is a U.S. Citizen; then the child is also a U.S. Citizen!!

true didi....although the place of birth is spelled out clearly in the constitutional requirements regarding being eligible for holding the presidency.....one must be born on american soil....which includes american embassies as well as military bases around the world.and before anyone rails about traveling americans abroad giving birth there are provisions for that as well

It is a stipulation that only 1 parent needs to be a citizen. And it would not matter if he were "adopted" by his stepfather, no actions of a parent can nullify the US citizenship of a minor child.

Birthers are just so ignorant they don't want to know what the legal definition of natural born citizen is.

. . . would have been easy to sneak across the border to give birth <like Obamas parents did.

Are you f--king kidding me? Sneak across the border . . . of Hawaii. Good God, man, it's an island!!! Series of islands actually.

c1, I see what you are saying but I think you would have to swim or boat to Hawaii, not just cross a border

I think the liberals are more upset about this than anyone else. Now they can't use one of their "Trumped up" (pun intended) talking points anymore.

Funny... the "birther" movement was started by a democrat/liberal/progressive. I love the way liberals make such a big deal about this.

wow sorry, i spoke before i read the certificate wasn't aware she was a citizen i thought she was a resident of Kenya < history mistake

@jackal50 they had plains dont thank they used a boat :P

Hey, PDK, don't you get it? The birthers think that the Constitution says that the President has to be a natural born citizen of the United States as it existed when the Constitution was written!

So anyone not from Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Virginia, "you're fired!" (says King Donald)

I mean, really, who ever heard of an American President from an island?

(LOL)

the reason they raise the Hawaii question is because Hawaii wasn't a state until 1959 and Obama was born in 1961, just 2 years after it became a state and was, to my understanding, a place that would have been easy to sneak across the border to give birth <like Obamas parents did.

after all, if me and my wife gave birth on your yard dose that make us legal tenants of your land

@c1c2c3c4c

Are you kidding? His mother was born in Wichita, KS! The last I checked, you don't have to "sneak" into the U.S to give birth when you were born here as a legal citizen. Give it up already...

to be fair thou the stipulation still needs to be changed so that two parents without citizenship cant get a child citizenship by giving birth on vacation to Hawaii (or any other state) <its semi-unethical :P

(please don't twist this particular comment into a Obama matter its only a reaction to my previous posts) <couldn't bring up the document to read the handwriting on this cite

Nice.....let the drama play out and then BAM....show the birth certificate (ace in the hole). Proves how much the birthers were fools in the first place.

This won't change any hardcore birthers, but for those of you on the fence; don't you think the FBI and CIA would have done a background check on the Senator from Illinois? Not to mention the Clinton Machine! But hey, birther money funded those candidates who played up to them.

Again, did not vote for the man and I do have problems with his domestic agenda, his wife apologizing for the USA, extensive/expensive foreign travel, but this non-issue, well time for those of you to move on.

now we need to see John McCains certificate of live birth ... He has never been naturalized... We also need Trumps and Bachmanns certified bonafied certificate of live Birth with a sworn statement of at least 2 witnesses to there birth and a copy of the delivering Doctors medical school records to prove they were born American Citizens ... we also need another certified certificate proveing they are born again christians ... with the name of at least 2 theological school graduates that have witnessed there being born again ... then they will qualify to run for president

Feelings of inferiority, Insecurity, and bigotry are the real reasons why there has been so much of this childish, bullying behavior coming from the Right Wing. The Republicans appear to stoop rather low to any means of stopping ALL of Obamas or the Democrats agendas that demonstrates help or fairness with all levels of economic standing and not just the wealthy elitists.

im removing post sorry decided not to make a joke about trump and McCain

the new york times threw a fit until mc shame the libya baby killer showed his 3 years ago, so why did they not do the same for obama? and why did it take 3 years for this simple thing that would have put so many questions to rest? 3 years, this man has no respect for the office he holds, hes petty.

Because Obama filed a legal birth certificate proving his citizenship in 2008.

If you can't form an informed opinion, you shouldn't have one at all.

Your ignorance astounds me. His mother was born, and raised in Witchta, Kansas which is about as American as you get, and Hawaii was a Territory since 1898 which still would make him a citizen of the US.

Hey, PDK, don't you get it? The birthers think that the Constitution says that the President has to be a natural born citizen of the United States as it existed when the Constitution was written!

Hahaha, nice one, RealAmericansFirst. Thank God I was born in one of the original colonies, lest I be mistaken for an Indo-Kenyan Muslim socialist when I announce my candidacy ;)

Me too, this has gone on long enough.

Hmm, if birthers stop acting stupid, then what will they do all day?

They will continue to misuse socialist, communist, etc.....

In reply to rrobeson, they will continue to watch Fox and go to Walgreen's for their pap smears and mammograms.

Since I don't (nor any of you all) know what a long form birth certificate looks like and can't get one to compare it to, this really means nothing. Obama IS NOT up to the job of being president. I get real tired of hearing that anyone not for Obama is a Racist. The guy's experence is limited, his vision narrow, his intellect is exaggerated and his ego grossly inflated. In his book he brags about grinding cigarettes out on people's carpet and now he is grinding them out on our country.

barbie, now i have to clean my keyboard, spewed my tea when I read your post. Thanks for the laugh!

Bigmark - I don't believe everyone opposed to Obama is racist. I have several friends who don't like him and didn't vote for him, but I would never call them racist. However, the birther issue IS racist. No other president (that I am aware of) has ever been forced to produce this kind of proof to the public that he was born in the U.S. It's a little ironic that the first time the issue is forced, it's not a white man that's in office.

Oh my jimwallywoo - and your great Gawd is Donald Trump?

'nuff said.

For your information, our country has been in that handbasket to hell for a lot longer than two years pal!

Three words. Anger management class

Hey Bigmark (trying to compensate for something, are we?) and jimwallywoo - what happened? Your posts were not collapsed in spite of their ridiculous content and lack of substance! I guess the crazy lefties were not capable of grasping your eloquent epistles? Ha! Feel free to continue to dream up your conspiracies. It keeps you busy. In criticizing the President you talk in generalities that make no specific points, just rambling insults. Worthless! This article is about just one more insane accusation from the wing nuts on the right and it has now been disproved, period. If you wish to keep the issue alive, be my guest, you wear it well.

jimmywallywoo.

Americans DO NOT have the right to Obama's private records as long as the officials are convinced that he is an American that's all thats required. No law mandates he prove it to you or any other citizen unless you have your own set of laws the rest of us don't know about.

Trump forced his hand?? Give me a break!! Obama never thought he would have to contend with IDIOTS but apparently he isn't perfect he figured all Americans had some level of intellegence but he was wrong in this case there are birthers.

So what did he have to do he had to produce a document which has NO LEGAL value in Hawaii just to make the birthers shut up. Alas now they will all claim it's a clever forgery and all the other evidence such as the newspaper's birth annoucements and people who were witnesses to him in the hospital's nursery (Republicans and Democrats) are all part of a consipiracy.

As Jeff Foxworthy so aptly says... You Can't Fix Stupid!!!!!!! Boy is this proof of that axiom.

Oh jimwallywoo... you're too much! Sort of like our very own Mr. Magoo!

However, the birther issue IS racist.

Please explain how you reach that conclusion. I am not a birther...I could personally care less where he was born.....but I have been called a racist for disagreeing with the president from time to time and I think you trying to separate this issue from any other questioning of the president for anything is inaccurate....wishful thinking on your part possibly...but inaccurate.

jimmywallywoo - your meds! Please take your meds! My gosh what a totally ignorant and hate filled post. I'm guessing you had no problem voting for George Bush - whose intelligence was not only limited - it was non-existent. But you berate President Obama and his wife? What a tiny little man you must be. cgtrav is right - You can't fix stupid. Go back to your padded room. You could be dangerous to yourself!

BarbieD - the best reply ever. You should be voted to the top commentary position.

As Jeff Foxworthy so aptly says... You Can't Fix Stupid!!!!!!! Boy is this proof of that axiom.

That's Ron White.....not Foxworthy.

Those who say Obama was supposed to have the long form released are wrong - he provided his birth certificate (the regular one) and it was examined, just like every other candidate. The only reason to have the long form released is to try and silence the "birthers" which is unfortunate that being black and having a name like Barack Obama is the only reason for the "birther conspiracy".

This does not mean that being opposed to Obama as pres means you are racist but most likely if you believe the "birther conspiracy" then you are most likely a racist.

StangSallie.

Thanks for the correction, I should have known it was Ron White.

(Good thing I didn't make a remark about rednecks.)

Jimwallywoo, here's a clue. "Frightened" and "disgusted" are two really, really different emotions.

"Disgusted" is the operational emotion that is getting your comments collapsed.

mental midgetry running amok......how refreshingly novel.

StangSallie.

Thanks for the correction, I should have known it was Ron White.

(Good thing I didn't make a remark about rednecks.)

Just making sure credit is given where it's due :)

Racist (ray' sist) n.; anyone who disagrees with Obama.

Conservative (con sur' ve tev), n.; see above

Picked ya up a copy of the new edition Democrat dictionary?

Barbie, I too watched that episode of STEPHAN COLBERT on the COLBERT REPORT, and thought it was hilarious.

. . . if you believe the "birther conspiracy" then you are most likely a racist.

A new Foxworthy routine?

He had a mother? O.O

Amen, except for watching other networks. Man CNN only time I watch is early in the morning. Morning Joe is no way to start my day, Fox is fake so all that we have is Msnbc.

The problem is, what network are you going to watch? Conspiracy theories make for great television, and with a news system based on ratings rather than integrity, whatever brings in viewers, will make the news.

If the American Government spent as much time and effort on the American People as they do opposing the American President, then American would be the rich nation it was meant to be!

And the "dumb" beat goes on!

Tell that to all the BUSH haters when they were blaming Bush for EVERYTHING.

One thing I NEVER doubted with Bush was that he LOVES AMERICA!

I have NEVER heard Obama say he LOVES America nor prove it ! Remember, Michele ONLY 2 years ago said, "for the first time in my life I love America"!

They both need to go away and stop damaging our country.

His skin color has nothing to do with his incompetence as POTUS. The only thing his skin color has done in bring racism back to the forefront. No, I did not vote for him not because of his skin color but because of his lack of experience and his stand on important issues plus the fact that he sounded like a used car salesman or a televangelist. I will not vote for him in 2012, not because of his skin color but because of his stand on issues and his past performance.

One thing that he said that I can agree with, "America does not have time for this". He is right, we also do not have time for another vacation or campaign trip. Park Air Force One in the hangar and do your job. If a seated president has earned the respect of the people, he should not have to spend so much time campaigning for re-election or fund-raising. His performance should speak for him. Since he feels that he must raise $1 BILLION for his campaign, he agrees that he has not done his job well enough to earn re-election. Please, Mr. President, do the honorable thing and step aside, we have work to do.

Jeff - and I have never doubted that President Obama loves this country. Bush yelling that he loves America does not make it so. He got us into an unnecessary war in Iraq for oil and his ego. Love of our country didn't play any part in that. Get off your high horse. The Obama's have shown great love for this country and are not going away. And, just for the record, it's THEIR country too!

Maybe Bush does love America. So what. He doesn't love America anymore than others who don't feel the need to trumpet it. Sounds like insecurity to me. It's like a girl you just meet, if you say I love you once, she may like it, after repeating it over and over, not so much. I don't fly the flag, I don't put stupid bumperstickers on my truck and I'm not NRA but I was born here and I'll smack anyone who tells me that I need to prove anything to anyone. Bush loves money. And he loves people that buy him expensive homes after he spent 8 years lining thier pockets.

Swimmom: You need to check your facts....ex-President Bush took MORE vacations in his first 2 years than President Obama has taken so far! Why do people always berate a president for taking a vacation -- if anyone needed it more, it would be him. Even on vacation, he's still at the country's peck and call! Most of his vacations have been "working" vacations. And, why would anyone have anything to say about him wanting to spend time with his family....we would ALL love to spend more time with our families. Give our president a break and quit complaining about stupid things....Bush did the very same thing, but we never heard any complaints about that!!

everybody is saying what obama is doing and what he is not doing,why don"t someone look and see what happen to that duffle bag of money that they found in iraq, no one has spoke of it since it was found,have they forget,(i haven"t)

Jeff in NJ - One thing I NEVER doubted with Bush was that he LOVES AMERICA!

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "If liberals hated America, they would vote Republican"

And that about sums it up.

Bush spent 1,020 days of his presidency on vacation. To put this into context, John F. Kennedy spent fewer days in office, 1000, than George W. Bush spent on vacation.

Bush spent 487 days at Camp David, 490 days at his Crawford ranch, and 43 days in Kennebunkport. George W. Bush spent 69 days in Crawford during his first year in office.

In contrast, according to FactCheck.org, Obama spent all, or part of, 26 days of his first year in office on vacation. This was less than all three previous Republican presidents, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and George W. Bush, but more than the two previous Democratic presidents, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton

Now, we all know you just don't like Obama. But "on vacation too much"? At least get some believable propaganda for a change.

swimmer...GWB was President for 8 years. Do you know how many days he spent in California in 8 years? Four days...and do you know what he did for those 4 days? One of them was when he declared "Mission Accomplished"...of course he was actually off the coast of CA that time (and horribly wrong about the "Mission"). The other 3 times he managed to land in the most populated and most tax paying state of the union was for....guess now....fund raisers. Under GWB California got 63 cents from the fed for every dollar in taxes it paid....down from 87 cents under Clinton. Now California doesn't mind supporting all those welfare redneck states...just keep those bubbas outta here...but the POTUS...if he's going to screw a state so imprtant to the union, should have the guts to show his face to the ones he's robbing.

Tell that to all the BUSH haters when they were blaming Bush for EVERYTHING.

One thing I NEVER doubted with Bush was that he LOVES AMERICA!

I have NEVER heard Obama say he LOVES America nor prove it ! Remember, Michele ONLY 2 years ago said, "for the first time in my life I love America"!

They both need to go away and stop damaging our country.

You have never heard every one of his speeches...I have heard him say that he loves America and what it was built on. I personally have never heard Bush say he loves America...doesn't mean he didn't say it. I didn't hear everything that came out of his mouth. Just like you haven't heard everything...only what you choose to hear and see...doesn't matter if its right or wrong.

Now as far as Michelle, don't sit there and act like you don't understand her point of view (and what you said was not a direct quote, but the correct sentiment)...this country had African-Americans as a fraction of a human being...I wasn't and still am not proud of that. This country was built on the back of slavery and Jim Crow...I'm not proud of that...so don't act like you don't get her POV. Then again, maybe you don't because you don't understand those concepts.

Too bad no "we'll have to wait and see" vote. Probably most will shift from 'he's not an American' to 'he's not a good president anyway.'

Quite frankly, I doubt any "birthers" think he's a good president and are only challenging him on "technical" grounds that (according to them) he's not native born.

every one knows that the POTUS can have the FBI CIA or any other agency forge documents for him (just another thought from the far right WASPs)

@timewonttell

Obama will just forge a document that will prove Trump is from mars and McCain was his Engineer < sarcasm ;)

well then it would be fake... who had a video of there birth in the 60's :P

as far as the moon landing they wont believe that even if they went back with the same cameras and got the same results.

cic2c - Is Wichita, Kansas a part of the United States? I always thought that it was but you know better.

BTW, according to the Birth Certificate, that was were his MOTHER was born.

You folks are sad....

none

wrong comment buddy :P

and you should read all my posts before calling me a names lol

He was a Legacy.

I know but Trump is asking how Obama got into Harvard. Nobody questioned how Bush got into his Ivy league universities.

Well, Obomber is pres so I guess you don't have to be too smart to get into one of the Ivory League colleges. Just be able to flap your lips really well.

That "idiot" as you call him could fly a jet fighter. Not too many idiots can do that. Of course he only flew it in Texas......

how did bush get into Ivy league? Easy, he was grandfathered in!

Grandfather wrote a really big check, with a big string attached to it.

I'm more interested in how Bush STAYED in Yale!

Um, Bernie... I was in the USAF for 8 years. You'd be surprised how many idiots can fly jets.

Honesly.

It is no more unbelievable than Obama being accepted by the Ivy League schools.

TheNiteNurse - Mommy and Daddy bought his way into school and out! And TomCat - President Obama is a very smart man. But, clearly you lack the intelligence to know that. He made Harvard Law Review - that takes intelligence - something you will never know.

Hey idiot(s), ALL previous presidents SHOWED ALL THEIR SCHOOL AND MEDICAL RECORDS !!!

Obama (the savior) HAS NOT !! How DID he get into Harvard?? Who paid?? What were the grades and papers written by this "smartest" president ever?? What is he hiding, or not willing to show? If he went to Harvard and Columbia, I would assume he had excellent (not good) grades....so show us.

Please......the man is a FRAUD !! An emperor with NO clothes !!

I knew a pilot that brought back heroine fromViet-Nam, and was selling it in Tucson, after he got back to DMAFB..

Just one idiot flyer out of all..I think the ratio of idiocy runs just a little higher.

Yet, I am sure a lot of pilots are above average intelligence....

Just like a cross section of the general populace..

I wanna see his grades. We all know that he wasn't the brightest bulb in the pack, so, show me the report card. Obama was one of the bright bulbs. He had to work a lot harder than Bush because he is Black/White. It must be frustrating having to deal with so many idiots just because they shout louder than the smart ones.

Jeff in NJ - all other Presidents did NOT show their school and medical records. Bush had to trump(had to use it) up records about his time as a pilot. The general's secretary said he never came to serve and should be considered a deserter. But, again, mommy and daddy bought his way out. No one has had to show the papers they wrote or how they got into school. Just get over it. President Obama can and does walk circles around Bush every day of the week. Even Bush's Dad can't stand him. Sits next to Clinton at events - not his own son. And, calls Clinton his adopted son.

Bernie: I can fly a jet fighter.....what does that make me? It certainly doesn't make me presidential material. Besides, our ex-president ducked out of his military obligations, and that was proven over and over!!

Jeff in NJ - uh, no, they didn't.

You have NEVER seen Bush's grades, medical records or BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

But somehow that never seemed to matter, eh?

Jeff in NJ: You are as ignorant and partisan as they come. It's sad. Now that you've been proven wrong on the birther issue, you now switch to grades. Pathetic grabbing at straws.

I laugh at your stupidity.

Jack...."Ivory" league.....which elementary school did you drop out of?

Hey Jeff, I'm embarrased to be from the same state as you! Your comments are absurd! And, amazingly, you have the nerve to call others names. Good riddens to bad garbage!

To all others that want to see hig grades, medical reports, college acceptance criteria, and goodness knows what else... Tough! he's the president of the USA. Get over it!

JeffinNJ wrote:

Hey idiot(s), ALL previous presidents SHOWED ALL THEIR SCHOOL AND MEDICAL RECORDS !!!

Obama (the savior) HAS NOT !! How DID he get into Harvard?? Who paid?? What were the grades and papers written by this "smartest" president ever?? What is he hiding, or not willing to show? If he went to Harvard and Columbia, I would assume he had excellent (not good) grades....so show us.

Please......the man is a FRAUD !! An emperor with NO clothes !!

WOW...it must be painful as I don't know what to see that man in office. You now jump from the "birth certificate" issue to the "education" issue. Well let me make this plain....if you can't beat a naked Muslim man from Kenya with Bad grades, whose wife hates America, in an American Presidential election...whose fault is that? Not his.

"Your enemies will be be your footstool"...I want to thank all the Tea Partiers, Birthers and especially Donald Trump for making the the 2012 Presidential election easier for President Obama....please continue.

OBAMA '12'

Didi. I never said he was presidential material, I just don't think he's an idiot and I don't think you are either but we (proverbial "we') voted him in so who are the idiots, Bush or us?

To TheNiteNurse:

Most already know how Bush got into his Ivy League Schools. Certainly not for his intelligence, but definitely because it was a bought and paid for legacy by his wealthy daddy.

Did you know that he graduated at the bottom of his class, which is not hard to believe. I wonder how many of his grades were bought as well.

To clarify, he wasn't last but toward the bottom @ 21%.

"The transcript indicates that in Bush's freshman year, the only year for which rankings were available, he was in the twenty-first percentile of his class—meaning that four-fifths of the students were above him. Yet at the same time that he was earning Cs at Yale, Bush displayed a formidable intelligence in another way. At his induction into the Delta Kappa Epsilon (DKE) fraternity, he and others were asked to name all fifty-four pledges in the room. Most were were able to name only five or six. When it was Bush's turn, he named every single one. Later he rose to become president of DKE, and he was also tapped into Skull and Bones, an elite secret society to which his father had also belonged."

http://www.presidentprofiles.com/Kennedy-Bush/George-W-Bush-Andover-and-yale.html

Read more: Andover and yale - George W. Bush - policy, second http://www.presidentprofiles.com/Kennedy-Bush/George-W-Bush-Andover-and-yale.html#ixzz1KpWGbZpd

He is not required by the Constitution to provide a birth certificate, but he DID 2 years ago. The wingnuts just didn't think it was good enough. It was the same birth certificate anyone born in Hawaii would get if they requested one. Hawaii's policy doesn't permit access to the version that the wingnuts wanted no matter who you are. Obama's staff did some research and sent a request to Hawaii officials to make an exception. Because wingnuts keep jamming up Hawaii's offices with requests and because Obama himself requested, Hawaii made an exception. So now...TWICE he has released his birth certificate even though he is not required to do so.

It was already on record. It was put out on the internet some time ago. Hilary freakin Clinton first brought it up, and it was investigated a long time ago.

So it was already "documented". And he has been leading, the Republicans are just trying to hamstring him, with result being that I will never trust a one of them. THEY have acted against the best interests of the majority of us, to serve themselves and all their wealthy buddies.

Because I guarantee you the FEC verified his natural citizenship when he filed to run for president. If he weren't a natural citizen, he wouldn't be allowed to run. Or do you think the conservative government at the time (Bush admin ran the FEC) was incompetent?

You are truly stuck on stupid, He produced it before, You fools just refuse to face reality.

Hmmmm that explains it. You are from Florida. Yep, where they don't know how to vote or how to read a voting balot. Your ignorance is showing.

But is has been documented for YEARS. They have released the birth certificate before. But "conservatives" don't want to hear that.

Orlando Partiot,

Your correct, it was not hard! It also was NOT necessary! The birthers will not be silenced, satisfied, or accept the birth certificate. They, as well as you, will find another EXCUSE why President Obama should not be president. Perhaps it will be, he does not lead or act presidential, as you stated in your post #8. Perhaps it will be he is not black enough or white enough or smart enough or whatever. Hate, and prejudice seem always to find some trite excuse(s) not to cooperate and/or accept, instead of helping and being constructive!

Why do we continually ask for a copy of his Birth Certificate? Do we have a copy of the Bush clan's birth certificates, how about Bill Clinton, Jack Kennedy, Gerald Ford. . .? Have we asked any other President for proof of birth, let alone his circumcsion (sp) certificate or baptismal certificate. What do the latter do to confirm place of birth? This issue is so ridiculous in the larger scheme of things.

Who really cares at this point where he was born. He has done nothing to fix any problems. Led us out of a recession, are you stupid. We are nowhere near out. Oh but wait I must be racist to dislike Obama. Did not like clinton or JFK or care for Regan's deregulation of business and banks. Both partys are self serving. watch Inside Job narrated by Matt Damon and you decide.

This has been such a stupid argument. His mother, a white American has a child. No matter where he is raised, her citizenship is his. Will they also be asking everyone of the candidates for now on for their official birth certificates so that we can all examine them? and let us all know exactly how everyone got into college, what all their grades were, how they were selected to the distinguished organizations they always claim. Will they be asking? no they won't.

This has been a hate attack on my President. You can disagree with his politics, but you must respect the office and the one who is in it until proven untrustworthy. The birthers are the ones who are not trustworthy.

Show me where in the Constitution it says that the President has to release his birth certificate to YOU.

Orlando

The President as a candidate released the same sort of proof of being an American born citizen as everyone campaigning did. Also, the same kind that was released to me when I needed one. Did none of you conservatives (not birthers) ever wonder why his proof was questioned and others were not? Ask yourself that question and be honest when you answer in your own mind.

As The President said, it had begun to really get in the way of the important issues, and that's because Trump who is flirting with a repub. presidential bid was using it as the "major" part of his platform. Also, The President was probably shocked, as was I, to learn that over 50% of republicans (that's a lot of folks) doubted he was a natural born citizen in that recent poll. My shock, liberal democrat that I am, was that there were that many mentally challenged republicans.

I have serious disagreements with republican plans and ideology, but no way would I have thought that that many republicans were so very stupid. I have a lot of republican friends and family and they have never seemed stupid - must not have been among those polled.

The "birthers" will not stop however. Just hope Fox says this ends the legitimacy question and the more intelligent republicans will allow themselves to believe The President is a natural born citizen.

Apparently calling yourself a patriot is your method of attempting to prevent other Americans from laughing at your stupidity disguised as reasonable discernment. Here are some facts that show the continued controversy was based in simple, racist unwillingness to accept the election of a black president.

#1 - No previous presidential candidate has been asked or required to provide documentation of their birthplace, except the black guy.

#2 - John McCain, the opposing candidate in the 2008 election was not born in this country, he was born in Panama, yet he was not asked to provide documentation to prove his citizenship, but he was white, not black.

#3 - As most of our armed forces who serve or have served overseas know, (including my father) a child born of an American citizen ANYWHERE in the world, is an American citizen by BIRTH. Except, I guess, the black ones.

#4 - During the campaign, Obama DID release the birth documentation that is routinely supplied by Hawaii state policy in response for requests for same. It it had been anyone else, that would have sufficed. Remember, John McCain was not born in America and never released HIS birth certificate? WHY NOT? He's white and was never asked. From this point on, especially given repeated statements by Hawaiian officials' (including the REPUBLICAN then-Governor!) that Obama's long-form certificate was on file and legitimate, the issue should have ended. And it would have if the questions had been raised about, oh, say, John McCain! Everything since then is the responsibility of people like yourself. Obama was not responsible for any further documentation beyond that.

#5 - Obama was respecting 'states rights' by not pressuring Hawaii to violate its laws and regulations related to long form / short form birth documents. That's something conservatives like you supposedly respect and approve of.

So, now that you and others like you have been shown up for the racists you are, don't try the lame stunt of trying to rationalize your willful blindness on anyone else. The fact is that this was disrespectful of the man and the office of the Presidency to a level unprecedented in this country's history. And history will hold you all in contempt and laugh at you and your 'genteel' racism, no matter how long or hard you attempt to live in denial.

For the record, I am a white person, and not a Democrat.

evanjd201,

MILLIONS cared, or they said they did! The problems the president faces will NOT be easy nor short-term in "fixing"! The serious economic problems we face may NEVER be "fixed" to our satisfaction. We are surely going to have to lower our standards of living to even begin to put a dent in these huge and very complex economic problems we face. It will take decades, if not longer, for the U.S. to recover from what has taken 40 years to develop. Both parties are responsible and one is as guilty as the other for the absolutely horrific condition of our economy. You enumerated such in your post #8.9. What have YOU done to improve YOUR country? I do not accuse you of racism, I accuse you of being qullible, to believe that ANY one man can solve our economic problems in less than three years in office! In fact, I would state, and be fairly confident, that President Obama could be in office for the rest of his life and he COULD NOT substantially solve or correct the economic problems of the United States, nor could any other man alive! That does not mean we simply "give up"! It means that the President starts, and others will have to continue, the process of "righting the ship of state", especially in economic areas. To quote an old Chinese Proverb: "A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step"! Our economic recovery may be a journey of 5000 miles, but let us begin TOGETHER!

The birther issue is & always has been a cover for the real anger of the racist few in this country. Unlike them he is black & intelligent.

Kitty-750867:
To quote you in # 8.5 :

Hmmmm that explains it. You are from Florida. Yep, where they don't know how to vote or how to read a voting balot. Your ignorance is showing.

Are you referring to yourself and not the for the ENTIRE STATE ?? And by the way your word "balot " is spelled "ballot".

MockingbirdGirl - They are actually worse than the lunatic fringe. I can't even think what they are. I want to see all of their IQ tests. I'm pretty sure if you added them all together they would not equal 100.

Obama... open the doors to Mexican invaders, and pander to the unions.

It's amazingly stupid and ignorant comments like this that shows that there will be no believing simple facts staring these nutcases in the face.

No, this certificate won't change many minds of those who believe that our President is not an American citizen. Once a Tea-Baggin'Birther, always a Tea-Baggin'Birther!!

let"s face it everybody, no one ever expect a black man to become president,they have been trying to digg up anything to discredit him, but i will say (god) had a lot to do with this man being where he is today,it seem to me that no one believe"s in a more powerful being,(god) is in control,

Obviously a fake.

By the way, he is not black.

jimwallywoo - no - those of us with brains knew he had the birth certificate. Only morons continued to fantasize that he didn't. And now you'll find another reason to hate him. Pathetic little minds! And, Trump won nothing except the chance - again - to look like the fool he is!

Americans have an absolute right to see the document that was produced today...you have absolutely no right to withhold it from us.

Wrong. You do not have any "right" to see this. Our justice system provides that the accusing party has the burden of proof. Simply stated, this means that the lunatic fringe who believed Obama not to be a US citizen has the responsibility of proving the claim. No other president in the history of the United States has ever been asked to provide this.

And I don't know who the "you" is that you suspect of "keeping it from" you.. but the State of Hawaii DOES have that right as granted by their own state laws. They made a one time exception that was against State policy, but could have easily said "no" as they have for the last two years. Obama cannot force any State to change the law for his convenience... and had he attempted to do so, THEN you might have something to bitch about. The State of Hawaii did acquiesce to his request for a release, simply because of the volume of requests they had received from other Americans.

Jimmywallywoo: Trump didn't FORCE the president into doing anything! The fact of his birth was proven 2 years ago. The only thing that Trump did was to show his stupidity....and he did a really good job of it. The reason our president finally provided the long form was because he was getting sick and tired (as were most of us on this discussion) of the crap that was being spewed by the so-called "birthers." Let's just put this to rest and let our president put his mind on more important things.....trust me, there are alot more important things he needs to be worrying about than a bunch of idiots!!

jimwallywoo . . . I really don't understand how you can twist this situation into a "win" for Trump. All he did was prove that he believed in something that wasn't true. And that's a win?

As for you're comment:

...Americans have an absolute right to see the document that was produced today...you have absolutely no right to withhold it from us.

I don't think you are correct on that, either. I've seen or read nothing in the law that means that you and I as individuals have a right to see the birth certificate. His birth and citizenship had to be determined before he was on the ballot as a Presidential candidate. That doesn't mean that it is public for individuals to read, utilize, and to determine whether it was legitimate or not.

As for your comment 3.12:

Like I said this forum is loaded with cowards that do not want any opposing points of view published an especially not seen. Ya see bj...what does bj stand for anyway...

That's odd, I often see opposing views posted. It just when they are particularly ugly or inflammatory or otherwise violate the code of honor that comments are collapsed--whatever point of view they are expressing. And by the way, why the heck are you questioning bj's screen name? That seems totally off the wall!

But then, all your posts that I've read seem pretty off the wall!

You can't cure stupid.

Yeah, you can cure stupid, but you have to start early and teach them to read.

Jimwallywoo - in your small mind.

Jimwallywoo hopes to someday be allowed to polish Donald Trump's boots.

For now, he's just licking them.

Another gem, Mr. Magoo! Well done!

I actually would love to see Donald Trump's school records. I can assure you that if he graduated "Magna/Sumacum" anything"" we would not have been able to shut his "pie hole" up about it. I would lobby for the President to release his transcripts if the "hair" would release his. I know that we would then understand how he managed to drive his companies into bankruptcy four times.

I would also love to have a look at this financial statement. Why do I get the feeling that is not not as "rich" as he is always trying to tell people he is? I guess that is because I don't know of any "rich" people having to tell others about how rich they are. What a loser...

I would like to endorse the "hair' as the Teapublican nominee for president.

Run donald run!!!! Secure your hair behind your ears and Run!!!!!

Trump talks about what a great student he was from a great school, Wharton School of Business. Yes, it is a great school, but he only received his BACHELORS degree which he never states. He doesn't have his Masters from Wharton, so his education is meaningless. When anyone asks him a question he either doesn't want to answer or doesn't have an answer for, he either turns it back on the interviewer...."why are you asking me that....what relevance does have?.....and never answers, or makes a statement and when asked a follow up to the statement says, "I already answered, next" and turns his back. He did that several times today. He uses the garbage he uses in the board room, and it's not going to work. Said today that Saudi Arabia only exists because we protect them, and he could get them to lower their price of oil, by one phone call. He would handle the China problem with one threat. He is a self aggrandizing fool. Said since we help saved Kuwait, we should have kept Kuwait and kept the oil. "After all if you beat a country, you own it."

It would be interesting to see trump's transcripts. I am almost 100% sure that they would be a joke since I know (based on his tendency to blow hot air)if that wind bag had graduated anywhere near the top 20% of this graduation class he would be beating us over the head with that fact. Notice how he waxes on about being a "good student" but never quite get to just how good a student he was? I can't wait for someone to blow that cover just so that wind bad would shut up. but I still want him to run as the Republican nominee.

Run donald run!!!!

Let him also get Bush's school transcripts.

Donald Trump's no more than a huge publicity stunt! Even if he announces he is running, it will be for a matter of weeks because there is no way he wants opponents and the Feds digging into his business and private information. He may be a successful business mogul but politician he is not! He talks only about himself and any sensationalistic he can conjure up! And the loonies just follow along like sheep! It makes me very sad about the state of our citizenry!

Too true Linda. What floors me is that just the other day he announced that his "investigators" couldn't find the birth control because it didn't exist.

This really shows him with egg on his face.

But of course he'll claim victory on this. Donald is just plain nasty. Just watch how he reacts when someone questions him and his actions. Do we really need that sort of hot head in the White House? Oh my...no way.

Why Barbie? Bush isn't running for President. I do agree with all this crazy birther nonsense they won't let it rest, I for one could care less where he was born I still think he's an idiot.

better put your flats on high heels...you're going to need them for backtracking through the second Obama term.

Hello Hiheels,

Yes, those republican governors sure are making a lot of fans by strapping the burden of fiscal reform on the middle class and eliminating legitimate bargaining rights. Remember when those teachers and policemen crashed the stock market? didn't that stink? Remember when planned parenthood gave themselves all those outrageous bonuses while taking benefits away from the rank and file? Remember when NPR flooded the Gulf of Mexico with crude oil? Oh yes, it's a great thing those governors are doing, getting back at those middle class folks for all the damage they have done, while protecting those poor patriotic billionaires who only want to trickle down on the rest of us, isn't it? Get ready for the backlash, heels... Fact is the R's don't have anything close to a credible candidate for 2012, and if you're hoping for a champion to arise from the bullying governors you so highly tout, good luck. The shine is already fading on those apples faster than either you or I can type.

And also, smarty pants, those people that are moving out of the cities into the red states, do you think they are just going to morph into the tea party when they settle in? Ha! Look at the demographics. The days of antiquated and failed conservative ideals are numbered. All we are seeing now is the angry writhering before the end.

Hugs,

Pete

HAHAHA Nicely put Pete!

Well said Pete. lol

August 21, 1959

Yes.

Hawaii became a State in 1959.

You just showed more idiotic ignorance than anything the "birthers" ever showed...

How stupid can someone be?

In any case, even if Hawaii had still been a territory, it was still part of the US. Oh my god, the stupid it burns.....

How can anyone post such nonsense? For goodness sake, google Hawaii and see when it became a state - and before that, a territory - before posting such nonsense. It will take exactly 3 seconds of your time and prevent you from looking like a loon.

ron james,

Why don't YOU look up the answer for YOURSELF? You do have a computer, don't you? If you can't at least look up when Hawaii became a state, how can you form an intelligent and factual opinion on any subject and decern fact from fiction?

You could have googled this on your own instead of looking like a fool.

Statehood in 1959. Alaska too. I remember history. You have a little reading to do.

Does it hurt a lot to be this dumb?

Ron -- a little history is in order!

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763770.html

... pun intended as this is a list IN ORDER of when the states were admitted. Not that I think you would get it, since you couldn't even figure out how to find this basic, little fact.

Ron, in the future go to Google and look something up before you post. It might save you from looking like a complete fool.

hee hee hee. The yapping dogs are finally brought up short on their leash all Moderate Style. Problem is, the yapping dogs never know how to quit.

was it even a state in 1961?

Really? I mean all you had to do was google this before you made yourself look so damned stupid. I mean really? I cannot believe your dumb behind just posted this. Did you not take U.S. History? Civics? Hell, a class on how to use the internet (that would have helped you to look this up?)

This country is in a piss poor shape and it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with a friggin political party!

American PEOPLE are the problem...... You don't even care enough about your country to learn about something as SIMPLE as this???

I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!

But for those who still say that Hawaii was a territory before that, reread the constitution and then the definitions of what is considered 'natural born'. Not all territories of the US are legally part of the US. However, I also did not think that John McClain should have been running since he was born in the Canal Zone. I was not a 'birther' and I, too, thought this was all put to rest before but I do give kudos to Donald Trump for making Obama fold under the pressure and have the long form released. Yes, we have more important things we should be focusing on but I still thought it was good.

Maybe this was a joke. I hope so.

Actually, the customary use of the term at the time it was written meant that the child was a citizen at birth. Which meant that if both parents were citizens, as in McCain, McCain would be a natural born citizen. The Birther movement started because Obama's father was not a US citizen, and his mother was only 19. Since part of the one parent rule is that the US citezen parent must have spent at least 5 years in the US after the age of 16, if Obama really had been born in Kenya, he would not have been a US citizen at birth.

Since he was, he is, and now lets talk about the national debt, and jobs...

First off jpquest, Obama didnt fold under Trump's pressure. We have serious issues with our country and everyone is still talking about this. I dont see how a man can say the things Donald did, then when hes proven wrong about his accusations, turns around to try to be hailed the victor over Obama. And you geniuses believe every word. Its insane, just like the whole birther arguement. Also here is what happens to those born in Hawaii, Dont worry jpquest, ill do the research for you.

A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900.

Dennis- I dont know where you guys keep getting this "5 years after 16" thing, but I dont see it anywhere in the Constitution:

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

• Anyone born inside the United States *
• Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
• Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
• Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
• Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
• Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
• Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
• A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

Here is another tid bit i found while looking at the constitution.

The law contains one other section of historical note, concerning the Panama Canal Zone and the nation of Panama. In 8 USC 1403, the law states that anyone born in the Canal Zone or in Panama itself, on or after February 26, 1904, to a mother and/or father who is a United States citizen, was "declared" to be a United States citizen. Note that the terms "natural-born" or "citizen at birth" are missing from this section.

In 2008, when Arizona Senator John McCain ran for president on the Republican ticket, some theorized that because McCain was born in the Canal Zone, he was not actually qualified to be president. However, it should be noted that section 1403 was written to apply to a small group of people to whom section 1401 did not apply. McCain is a natural-born citizen under 8 USC 1401(c): "a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person."

McCain doesnt require the panama canal section 1403 to cover him because he is already a natural born citizen under section 1401. If a parent or both parents are citizens(that have lived in the US a minimum 5 years) then you are a Natural Born Citizen no matter where you are born.

Here is where I see it, pete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States

Of course tax cuts for the rich will stimulate the economy. SOMEONE has to shine their shoes, carry their sacks of money, feed their guard dogs...

I wondered how that trickle down thing works. I wonder how much of Trumps wealth trickles into income taxes?

Smithers: Actually sir, with our creative book-keeping and
corporate loop holes, we only pay three dollars in taxes a
year.

Monty Burns: You're right, we're getting screwed!

Where's Palin's birth certificate proving she was born in the US and not Canada? We already know her family did most of their health care in Canada when she was a baby and child. Requiring a birth certificate from Obama was and is racism. Because he's black. Because his father is from Africa. These are the reasons the birthers want to see the birth certificate. Where's McCain's? Where's Clinton's? Where's Bush's? We didn't demand those, did we?

That's a lie Jo-An. The Demo-Nazi's demanded McCain's birth documents and military documents during the campaign and McCain produced all of them for the DNC's inspection and also posted them on his web site along with his long form birth certificate. Sarah Palin also produced all her documents and they were inspected by the DNC.

Now, why did Obama spend over 2 millions dollars to keep his out of the public eye????? Why did Obama allow an innocent man to go to jail because of his birth certificate?????? Why hasn't Obama appeared on national television and called his grandmother a liar?????