I have done the exact same thing. I understand that young children will and do act unruly, no one is perfect. But there is a difference between acting like a child and parents allowing their children to run wild. When I was little all my dad had to do was look at me and I knew I had to straighten out. That's whats missing in todays society: lack of discipline and children no longer being raised with boundaries.

Since smoking was banned in restaurants, and even before, annoying, misbehaving, crying children have been the worst thing about eating out. I routinely ask for the "no children" section when I am seated. There may not be one but the host gets the idea and seats us away from children. I took mine to restaurants when they were young and they knew how to act politely. Today's children, and their parents, have no idea!

I've seen children bring the entire restaurant dining room to a standstill. Those are the kids who shouldn't be allowed in. Some parents today are just clueless. They're the ones raising the kids who turn into entitled, bratty, idiots.

Agreed. When I take my kids out, even my two year old is reasonably well behaved. He sits in a high chair and drinks from a cup with a lid on it. If he screams, I reprimand him. I get dirty looks, sure. I understand he's two. "He's just a baby." But you know, that baby is growing up and forming habits, and I'll be damned if those habits are going to involve running around, bothering people, screaming and generally being rude. Not on my watch. People remark all the time on how well mannered my eight year old son is. Do you think he got that way from 8 years of me saying, "Oh, he's just a kid"? By the time they turned two, both were saying "please" and "thank you," and now the two year old is learning "excuse me." That's because I say these to them, and as soon as they start babbling, I start telling them when to say them.

And I would never take them to a fancy place until I was sure they were old enough to mind their manners, not yell even once, and not spill food on the floor. Where is common sense anymore? A toddler simply does not belong in a place like that. He wouldn't even enjoy himself.

My line to the hostess: No smoking, no kids....but i'd take the smokers before the kids.

How about-kids not being allowed in a restaurant that has a bar in it. I have learned to look around before I put my name on the list waiting for a table.It is without a doubt the parents fault for bring up these small nightmares. Teach them some manors- my guess you need to learn some yourself.

I agree that parents are the irresponsible ones by allowing their children to be loud and run wild. When my son was a toddler I left restaurants carrying him because he wouldn't behave, several times before I even got to eat my OWN meal. When a child can't behave and the parents won't take action, that speaks a great deal about the character of the parent and how the child will turn out as an adult. It is selfish for those parents to think they have the right to impose that behavior on everyone in the establishment.

This restaurant owner said he does not have a children's menu nor has he ever had one. My question to the parents that would bring young children there is what did they eat? It is clear his establishment was not meant for children and he has the right to say they are not allowed under a certain age. Good for him!

Yea, I just don't get parents that just sit there while their kids are running around and crawling underneath the chairs and tables bumping into other patrons and causing a general ruckus. It's even worse when there is a group of parents all with kids. It's as if they think oh well, it's really ok now since all of us have kids to just turn the restaurant into a playground for them and I'm too busy talking to "Bob" to pretend like I care. What is just as annoying is these people that bring their 1 year old babies to loud movies. Yea, I got a tip for you, the baby is gonna fricking cry no matter what you do, and even getting up every 10 minutes to climb over people with your baby because it started crying...... again....... is not cool. My parents used to take my sister and I out to nice restaurants when we were both very young, but you better believe we acted just like adults and were quite aware of the fact that if my dad even had to so much as clear his throat in our direction that we would never be going to another restaurant with them ever again.

I agree 100%. When I was a kid and we went out to eat, I sat in my chair and minded my manners or I knew what would happen when we got home. Evidently kids today are not worried about that or any conquences. I totally blame the parents.

There are still many, many restaurants out there who do cater to families and there is no reason for people to bring their kids to an adult oriented bar/restaurant.

kudos - when I see bratty kids in a restaurant it makes me thankful I don't have any. However, my nephew is a wonderful, well-behaved 5-year-old, and I would hope that if I had children, I would have the mental strength to instruct them to use their manners and make sure they are disciplined. I just got a puppy and I have to accept that I can't just take her anywhere, and that I have to train her to behave - small children are not much different.

when you have children, you are sacrificing the ability to go anywhere at anytime. that means nicer restaurants (unless you get a sitter) are out of the question until your children are older and have learned how to behave.

kids walking on the tables ( where other people are expected to eat ) ?

I'd seen more than ................ ...........................................................................TEN TIMES!

You are mistaken. As of mother of two and a teacher of many, Kids today need to understand they are not adults with adult choices. Parents need to parent and not be their child's friend. It will be the down fall of our society if we don't get a handle on children. The world does not revolve for them at any age. The Amish may have this right. Their kids are seen and not herd! They are polite, quiet and remember that they are not in control. Come on America get this figured out before it is too late.

I'm a parent of two boys, ages 3 and 6. We simply don't take them out to eat unless the place is kid oriented like McDonalds or the Rainforest Cafe. While the 6 year old is well behaved and well mannered the 3 year old passed over the terrible twos and decided decided to have the terrible threes instead. He can't sit still for more than 10 minutes. Attempts to restrain him result in tantrums. While my wife and I are content to let him roil through his tantrum at home to show they don't work in getting what he wants, we won't subject patrons trying to enjoy lunch or dinner to our mayhem. Well, unless, like I said, its a kid themed restaurant. Then we'll risk it. But if he doesn't behave, and he breaks down in a tantrum when we try to reel him in, we leave. We get our food to go and we leave. When he's older and has learned our rules and boundries, we'll enjoy family nights out. Until then, we'll keep our chaos at home. I would expect other parents to be just as considerate.

There is a fantastic book called, "Epidemic". It deals with exactly this issue. Parents have gone from, "you better behave", to "aren't my kids just so sarn cute"... They can't understand that others could really care less about their kids.

Another tip: If you see a sign ANYWHERE that says kids eat free, do not walk in the door. It is actually a code: Your inability to parent is accepted here.

Any establishment should be allowed to ban kids. Even stores should have this right. Since the government decided that disciplining your kids is wrong things have gotten out of control. A couple abusive parents and we change the rules for everyone.

Now the way to take control is to not allow kids in to your business if you choose not to. You want to take the kids out to eat go to Chucky Cheese. The food might not be any more nutritious than cardboard but it is designed for the out of control kids.

When parents come to realize that their responsibility is to "parent" and not be their kids best friends things might change.

There is a statement I have heard out of the mouths of 30 something parents that amuses me to this day. "I am not raising my kids the way I was brought up". My question to them is, how did you turn out?

For all the whining and complaining about how we were raised apparently our parents did something right because we are full functioning adults. Somewhere along the line we lost site of things like, rules, responsibility, manners, respect............all the things that make kids a joy to be around are gone because parents have become indentured servants to their kids. They have forgotten the simple things like the word "no".

Parents, you know if your kids are unruly or not. If you want a nice night out for dinner, get a babysitter. If you can't afford one you probably shouldn't be going out to dinner.

The brewpub that I managed was forced by the city to ban children. Our city has an ordinance that says that food sales must equal or exceed 51% of total sales in order to admit minors. Since beer was our main source of revenue, we could not admit children. We had to turn away families with children often. We would tell them to go to one of the other downtown restaurants that could serve children. If someone got angry about the situation, we would tell them to contact the Mayor, who was also the city liquor commissioner. Most people were understanding.

However, I cannot recall ever being in a restaurant where disruptive children were present. Maybe the children in our area are better behaved than the norm.

One goes to a restaurant to eat in peace. Not to listen to a bunch of rowdy kids screaming and running all over the place. They have places like Chucky-Cheese to go to and McDonald's (I don't recommend).

Parents need to make their kids sit down when eating out or don't take them out at all, or just order take out.

However, I know there are some annoying adults as well that needs to be tossed out too. Especially the loud mouth pones yapping on their cell-phones.

Too bad this place is several hours from me -- I'd got just to show my support!

I do not dislike small children, but I do intensely dislike the idiot parents of badly-behaved-in-public small children that think their Little Precious can do no wrong. When I go out to dinner, I don't want to be subjected to your screaming, running, food-throwing, wait-staff-tripping out-of-control kid.

I've also asked to be seated in the 'no kids' section. I think restaurants should have that option for adults!

We never went to a restaurant without being prepared - paper, coloring pens, small activity books. Our kids running around was not an option, so they needed something to do while they waited for dinner.
Joe's Crab shack was great if we went out with some other couples - we'd sit where we could watch our kids play in the little playground area.

Not too long ago, we were at an moderately upscale restaurant that served fondue. At the table behind us, was a family with two young, unruly children. One kept popping his (her?) head over the barrier between us and the other (apparently) kept trying to burn themselves on the fondue burners - as every other word out of mom's mouth was the whine "stop, you'll burn yourself".

How I wish THAT restaurant banned children. I liked the idea of asking for the no-kid area, and will do that in the future!

Children are exactly why I do not eat from buffet lines (some adults too), I've seen kids just standing and grabbing food and eating bites and putting the rest back or reaching across other food items to garb something they want because the parents are too busy stuffing their own faces to mind the kids they are responsible for. I've even seen people bring their kids into Friday's or Chili's and sit the children AT the bar... and nary a word was said.

OUTSTANDING Mr. Vuick!

Parents: Your kids are really only cute to you. Running around in a restaurant screaming and crying with snotty noses running down in their mouths is extremely rude to other customers.

I don't blame that guy at all for banning children under 6. Good call.

There are few things more annoying than taking my wife out for a quiet dinner and having to listen to the kid at the next table scream and fuss the entire time. It ruins it. I am for free enterprise. Let the restaurant owner do what he wants. People with kids will be offended and may boycott his place (even when the kids aren't in tow) while those wanting a nice quiet dinner will probably give him more of their business. In the end, he will either do better or worse, but it will be his choice (and his business).

The alternative would be to ask people with noisy kids to leave, but this creates conflict and puts the "bad guy" label on the people who are forced to lodge the complaint.

Of course, the best solution would be for parents with small kids to just not take them to nicer places to eat. If your kids are young, go to McDonalds or Chuckee Cheese, where people expect kids to be kids.

It's HIS restaurant he can do what he wants. Don't like it, then don't eat there. I used to own 3 restaurants back in the 80's, not "family" restaurants, but high end, and fairly expensive. We did not allow children under 12 to come in, no booster chairs or kids seats. People have a right to be away from children sometimes. I was cussed out a few times over the years, I didn't care, it's my place I could do as I damned well pleased. My company was not a "democracy" it was a dictatership in which my decisions were the "rules".

Those of you who complain, open your own restaurant, and stop telling people what to do with something you have no say in. Don't like it? tough.

Their kids are seen and not herd

I think that's the point most people here are making. That the rambunctious "little one's" are running around like a herd of (fill in with animal of your choice).

I once was at a restaurant, and while eating 2 families came in, one with older (elementary school age) kids, and one with a toddler (maybe 3 years old). I thought "oh great, that kid's gonna be screaming his head off". But when it came time to leave, I stopped by their table and complimented the parents of that toddler on how well-behaved he was - and loud enough for the parents of the 2 hyperactive cretins to hear. That toddler never fussed and when he started to, his parents attended to him and quieted him down. The other 2 kids, their parents were off in their own little world not caring what their kids were doing, and never correcting the kids' bad behaviour.

I will be the first to say that honestly good parents can have bad kids and bad parents can have good kids. But parents need to be parents and not their childrens friends. I have 5 children (now from 12 to 25) and have not allowed them to misbehave when we're out. They have been taught and they understand that there are acceptable and unacceptable behaviors.

I can guarantee that the behavior you see in public is the same or worse at home. I've seen it. This is a lack of parental discipline. While the home life should be more relaxed, there isn't any valid reason to let the children go wild, doing what they want. They need to understand what good manners are and they should have them from an early age.

When the children are small, the choices they make are small and the consequences, and rewards, should be equal to the age. If they are never taught the consequences of their choices they will not be prepared when they go out into the world.

What too many parents don't understand is that when children are finally let go into the world, that the world will be harsh. The "world" isn't a loving, nurturing place. Parents aren't doing their kids any favors by saying "they're just being kids". Discipline in love is proper teaching and prepares children to understand that with choices come consequences. And the older the child gets, the more difficult it will be to teach them manners. It should be started very early. That's what we did, and our kids are very well mannered and considerate of others.

I don't appreciate the bad behavior of children in public places. I have children, I understand, and I don't approve of poor behavior. Not only in restaurants, I would suggest that the movie houses take the same approach, at least to certain movies. When I go to a movie with my wife (date night) I don't want to hear screaming children in a PG or PG-13 movie. Is it really appropriate to bring the young children to these venues? G rated movies I completely understand that young children would be there. Ok, I'll concede that this could be a gray area, but I still think the poor behavior shouldn't be acceptable and we (paying patrons) shouldn't have to simply tolerate it because "they are just being kids". Parents need to take responsibility and take appropriate action.

I have said for years that I would pay more to go to a restaurant that didn't allow kids....that goes for movie theaters too. I don't have kids, don't want kids and don't like to be around kids. Like others have said, if I walk into a place and there are a bunch of kids, I'll turn around and go someplace else.

I wish this kid ban would spread....there are some restaurants that I would like to experience without having shreiking in the background or my hair pulled from the other side of the booth seat. Yes....that did happen to me....the mother couldn't be bothered to get off her cell phone to swat the kid trying to give me a bald spot. I didn't yell at the kid....but I did let the mother have it. She didn't appreciate me suggesting a perfect location for her to store her phone, nor my offer to put it there.

This place sounds like a bar & grill, not a family restaurant. Never even had a children's menu. It's a privately-owned business and the owner should do as he sees fit to maximize his revenue and the enjoyment of his customers.

If people with young kids are offended by the new policy, they are free to eat somewhere else.

I am against unruly children just as much as everyone else. However, I find it offensive and insulting that I would not be welcome to take my children out for dinner. That is obscene!

No one is saying you can't take your children out to dinner - just that you can't take them to this particular restaurant. No matter where you live, I doubt that being able to go to ONE restaurant means not being able to go out to dinner at all. If you live in a town small enough that there really IS only one non-fast-food restaurant, it's probably kid-friendly anyhow.

Well, my two little ones back in the day. I told them the first time we went out in a public restaurant, that if they didn't behave and sit like little gentlemen, then we all will leave and go back home, and they will be served a plate a spinach and brussel-sprouts. They acted up the first time at a restaurant and sure enough, I kept my word. We all sat at the table and I sat with them until they finished their vegetables.

The next time out, they behaved like little gentlemen and I never had that problem again. The food we order at the restaurant we paid for, we just got it as take out, but the kids didn't get a bite of it.

Also the same method works when it come to movie theaters. As they begin to act out and annoying the others that were trying to enjoy the film they paid to see. I told them that if they didn't behave that they we will get up and leave the theater. They didn't believe me, and we walked out. We went home and as punishment, they spent the weekend doing yard work and chores, and no tv for a week.

They learned real quick. Next time we went to the theater, they were well behaved and sat up in their seats like little boys should.

Wow just read the hate on this board, directly at KIDS...not just a few kids...ALL kids!! You bet it's this owner's right to ban kids. It's also the right of any cusstomer disgusted with the vilification of all children to boycott it. What's next...I don't want to sit next to any badly dressed fat bald guy who stabs his meat and chews with his mouth open? Geez people...grow up. Come out of your basements. There's a whole world out here, outside your island.

plenty of kids and idiot alike to bring kids, and they even cater to have kids menu's, and wow! even playgrounds indoors! go there.

“I can't believe this. I am offended. This is just an ignorant policy," Kelley said.

well kelly, you go right on being offended. be offended till you realise it isnt all about you and your snot nosed brat, that when people eat out, those WITHOUT a kid on their teat like to do so in peace. thats why there are these things called "baby sitters". so YOU can go out and enjoy your meal, and at the same time be considerate enough to let others enjoy theirs. Rather letting the little tot sit and fuss or run off and play while others would like a peaceful moment to themselves.... what would you sacrifice for them in return?

there is McDonalds, Chuck E Cheese, Burger King, and so on, that lets your kid be a kid, and you be what have you as a parent, and will next to drop your drawers, and kiss your a** for the price of an ice cream cone..... feel more than free to try one of those other establishments.

AP, what would your solution be? Have some sort of behavior test on a case by case basis?

For those that like to oppressive free speech that isn't inflammatory, I like to repost. That way it gets seen even more... I can do this all day too. The more you oppress, the more I cut and paste, and the more it gets seen. So do it all you like.

The 'report' button isn't a 'disagree' vote, and abusing it is just going to change their policies so those that abusers of it will not be able to do it anymore.

Here is the cut & paste of it, again:

My guess is that this guy has simply turned old and crabby, he probably doesn't even realize it himself that he has become so unbearable. Common age defect.

At the same time, it depends on the establishment. My quick quess is that this type of establishment wasn't meant to be family restrictive.

Next time you have a kid problem, just have the parents leave, not have half your clientel shown the door.

btw people, if you don't like how a kid is disciplined by their parents, think of the fact that it was you that passed laws preventing parents from spanking children.

AP-1414066

Wow just read the hate on this board, directly at KIDS...not just a few kids...ALL kids!! You bet it's this owner's right to ban kids. It's also the right of any cusstomer disgusted with the vilification of all children to boycott it. What's next...I don't want to sit next to any badly dressed fat bald guy who stabs his meat and chews with his mouth open? Geez people...grow up. Come out of your basements. There's a whole world out here, outside your island.

No one on here has said anything about hating kids. They hate the way the parents let them run amok and about in public places that interfere with other people rights to eat at a restaurant in peace and quiet.

They are your kids, make them behave in public or cage them like the animals you are raising them to become.

I raised mine and they learned to behave like little gentlemen when out in public. In the back yard, they can run, scream and play, but not that way in public.

Teaching your kids to behave in public places and having respect for others is not hateing them AP.

Ap it is not directed at kids it is directed at lousy parents with no parenting skills whgo subject the rest of us to their failures.

AP, Perhaps I am reading something different from you. These comments are all on the money. No one likes to hear loud out of control children when trying to enjoy a meal. Incidentally, the "hate" is not directed at children; it is towards the selfish and clueless PARENTS! I will not allow my grandson to scream and behave badly in a restaraunt. If he doesn't control himself, he leaves with his mother or we all leave. Kudos to this restaraunt owner...

As a Father of three boys, 19,17,15, and now a Daughter of 2-1/2, I have no problem with this Restaurant Owner. Many parents can't control their children at any age, let alone as a toddler. We have friends that have children that are a year or two older than my Daughter and I can't stand their kids. They're obnoxious, loud, unruly little heathens with the only limit to what they do being their own imagination. Be offended as a parent if you want but I suspect you're part of the problem that spurred the decision in the first place.

I was briefly offended, because my child behaves at restaurants. But then I realized, many do not. And, if I'm going out for an evening to get a break from my kid - who is well behaved - it would be nice to not deal with someone Else's - who is not.

And, aside from parents who don't teach their children properly, it is also unreasonable to expect a young child to sit still for the duration of a proper sit down meal at a restaurant. It sets everyone up for a not so good time.

The way most parents bring up children these days pretty soon they won't be allowed in public anywhere. I am sure I wasn't perfect as a kid but I don't think I would have gotten away with 10% of the stuff I see kids do while their parents don't even watch or scold them for these days. Restaurants are generally some of the worst offending situations. I get it, you want a nice night out with some friends, and to maybe forget your parental responsibilities for a few minutes, that is why babysitters exist. In a typical "kids in a restaurant" situation that I have seen the kids are either complaining that their parents won't let them order something, then throwing their food on the floor, or sitting the whole time playing their nintendo or watching a portable dvd player, sometimes without headphones letting spongbob blare across the restaurant. If you can't be bothered to teach your little monster some table manners, and want a few minutes to yourself, cough up for a babysitter or at least make sure your kids aren't terrorizing the other patrons while you drink your third glass of wine.

We never went to a restaurant without being prepared - paper, coloring pens, small activity books. Our kids running around was not an option, so they needed something to do while they waited for dinner.

You see, to me that's a bad sign. If your child needs some sort of distraction in order to behave maybe they just aren't ready for an adult dinner in an adult restaurant. When my parents took us out for dinner, we sat there and had a conversation with our parents. There is no way in hell my parents would bother bringing toys to the restaurant to keep us occupied like pets. Then again, I hated my mom's cooking, bless her heart, and I knew if I wanted to eat a delicious meal that I better behave like an adult. My sister and I, however, were very different from many kids in that our parents raised us with a certain amount of sophistication, making sure that we were reading novels in the second grade and engaging in serious discussion. No, we were not rich. We were a lower middle class military family. And no, my father never once had to lay a hand on us in order for us to behave.

My guess is that this guy has simply turned old and crabby, he probably doesn't even realize it himself that he has become so unbearable. Common age defect.

well my guess..... me having to sit in the same room with your kids would be unbearable, just by what you are saying. Thing is, people dont HAVE to like yours, or anyones kids, well behaved or not. if i go out to dinner, i exspect it to be just that, a dinner with me or a person of MY choosing, not YOUR kids to be tossed into the bargain by force. some people think because they have kids every living thing walking this earth needs to make way for them.... wrong-o! if i had my way, id have a belt for each hand and 3 more for a back up, because parents who think like yourself, let your kids do whatever they please. when they get into trouble we all get the same old story "but my baby is such an angel!" bit, and its more pathetic than anything cause most people already know better.

So to put it in lamens terms... if i go out for a quiet evening of dinner and relaxation, that is what i exspect. nothing more, nothing less. find a sitter, or go to McDonald's, take YOUR pick.

Ok, you clearly do not get it. This is not villification of children. This is, however, villification of parents who do not discipline children. Parents who think it is acceptable to let their little darlings do whatever they want, with no thought or concern for the other people around them.

Anna, while YOU may have behaved children, SO many don't and don't care how much they ruin other guests meals. Kids seem to rule EVERYTHING these days and the parents let them do it. I came from a family of 6. When we acted up, we simply left the restaurant. No big spanking scene, etc, but we knew we messed up. We weren't allowed to wonder around, dominate an adult conversation or bang on the table, etc. These days, when we go to dinner with adults with children, they allow them to participate in our conversations when it should be strictly adults... Parents need to get a GRIP on their kids. They grow up to be bratty adults.

You see, to me that's a bad sign. If your child needs some sort of distraction in order to behave maybe they just aren't ready for an adult dinner in an adult restaurant.

I disagree with that. At least as parents they are providing something for their children to do. Most kids can't sit still for 10 minutes and need something to focus their energy upon. For that matter a lot of family oriented chains have paper place mats that have stuff for the kids to do and they give crayons out in many of them.

When my kids were little they were well behaved too but that's because I bothered to take the time to be a parent. After my kids got a little older they were bothered by other children that misbehaved. They didn't like the yelling, screaming and running around any more than I did. Have you ever had a birthday party that was ruined by someone else's kid that wasn't even invited? Even at fast food restaurants children should be taught to behave instead of turned loose to run wild.

I have no problem with restaurant owners that ban children. They are simply trying to solve a problem caused by other adults that cannot or will not control their offspring. I really hate planning a night out and looking forward to it only to have it ruined by brats that have no idea how to behave in public.

Someone else has pointed out that bratty children grow up to be awful adults. Just a while back I was at a restaurant where a group of adults were behaving just like a group of loud, rowdy children. Mind you there was no bar and these people were sober and they did not appear to be mentally impaired or have chaperones. They also appeared to be in their 30s and 40s. What is their excuse for disrupting an entire restaurant? The place was packed and when they left you could literally hear everyone breath a sigh of relief. I hope this is not the future that we have to look forward to when all these brats of today grow up into adults.

I have a friend that was a very good mother, wife to a good doctor. All three of her natural born children grew up educated and well mannered.

One day, she decided to help a child out by adopting her. The child was in bad circumstances. She adopted early.

First thing the adoption agency told her is that they PROHIBIT adopting parents from spanking an ADOPTED child.

Each time the child did bad, she would 'remind' her parents and even let them know that she was told by the agency to immediately report any spankings.

The adopting mother surrendered the child to the adopting agency.

So, each time you want to complain about parents not discipling their children correctly. Remember that it was YOU who wanted those laws preventing it.

I don't have a problem with kids in a restaurant. I'd much rather see restaurants ban PEOPLE FROM TALKING ON CELL PHONES!!!!! These self absorbed jerks are more annoying than any two year old.

Too bad airlines can't do the same thing. A cramped airplane with a bunch of screaming kids is even worse than a restaurant or theater. You can't get up and leave. I was on a 4 hour flight once where I had to put up with several screaming babies and toddlers the entire flight and the parents did nothing to control them or the "older" pre-teens kicking the seat, pulling the hair of the person in front of them, and totally disrupting the "peace" of the flight.

I think it's just a sign of the times. People are generally more self absorbed and less concerned about others around them. Everything has become a right, rather than a priviledge. We claim that we are a "Civil Society", but it appears that most civility has been lost. We barely qualify as a society any longer, as we have neglected to try to formulate and adhere to any common societal goals.

I raised my two sons to be well behaved and respectful of others. In looking how our society has changed, I hope it wasn't a mistake. Perhaps I should have made sure they were self centered and disrespectful so that they go after what they are entitled to.

As far as banning kids from public places like restaurants, it might backfire. I mean if there are enough families with kids going to the place where it's causing a problem, the owner might find that his business drops off significantly.

My mom used to threaten to take us to the bathroom if we so much as wiggled in our seat at a restaurant. It only happened once. I use it with mine as well and they are very well behaved in public. But I also didn't take them to restaurants when they were very young. You never really know when a child is going to lose it. Until they had more self-control we just got it to go.

Now, I love my children, but I don't like other people's children. They annoy me. Nor do I believe others are enthralled by my brood. So I agree with his right to ban children under a certain age. It's his restaurant. How anyone is insulted is beyond me.

Brian wrote "but there seems to be a growing trend among parents of taking their kids to a public place and turning them loose like it was a playground."

There is a growing trend of poorly behaved adults. In the past, polite adults would grin and bear a nuisance or two.

As a result of the economic booms, there are more restaurants and people eat out more often. The easiest way to avoid parents with children is to spend more on meals and eat later.

@ Vincent

Poorly behaved adults are adults who take their kids to restaurants and expect everyone else to tolerate the ruckus their kids raise when they act out. If your kids are poorly behaved, it is not the problem of anyone else in the establishment to deal with the consequences of their misbehavior. Polite adults realize from the get-go that such a ruckus might occur if the kids come along, and therefore plan ahead with alternative arrangements for the kids so as not to disturb other patrons. It's called being responsible, and adults are supposed to be good at it.

avengemesir,

I agree completely with you. Anyone should be able to go to a reataurant and spend their money for a decent meal and not have to put up with someone else's misbehaving children.

I agree with you Spikegary. I should be able to go into a restaurant without hearing a bunch of screaming and crying kids. I wish they would do something about them in the stores as well. I hear them constantly at super maerkets, clothiing stores, Kohls and even at walmart screaming, crying and yelling not stop. Makes it miserable to shop.

Numbers in Colorado, so if it became a federal offense to spank ANY child, would this sparkling example of motherhood give up her own kids? She actually gave a kid back because she couldn't spank her? The best word I can think of is "bizarre"! And I did not have ANYTHING to do with getting any laws passed that would prohibit a normal disciplinary action. You are clearly in the minority here. I promise you that you will never be forced to go to this restaurant that you find so offensive. I have gotten up and told my daughter that I would wait outside because my grandchild was making a scene. I will not sit there at a table with an unruly kid and condone it by not leaving.

I took my son to see X-Men First Class when he was about 22 months old. I got a seat near the exit, with the whole row to ourselves and a wall at one end. We sat at the edge to head him off and basically let him play around in that little area. I fully expected to have to take him outside at some point and let him blow off steam, but he was actually really good. He sat with us for a large portion of the movie and actually watched it, and the worst thing he did was get into my purse, take out all my stuff, and unwrap all my gum. But at least he did that quietly, and we cleaned it up before we left.

Over the weekend, my husband and I went out to eat lunch. Now, I admit we went to a family friendly place, however, as the hostess was walking us to a booth, the booth next to it had one adult and 5 small unruly children (not all of them hers and all of them were under 5), two of which were hanging over into the booth we were directed to, and all were screaming. I adamantly refused stating "I'm not sitting there. We're here to eat, not entertain kids". The hostess looked at me as if I had 6 heads, and the lady with the gaggle of unruly, misbehaving little brats looked at me as if she wanted me dead. Too bad. I am not going to sit there with children hanging over my head while I eat. If the woman had those kids under control, it would be a non-issue, but she didn't, and they continued to be bothersome, starting to run around and harass others including the wait staff. Luckily, about 15 minutes into me and my husband being there, they left.

If we were eating somewhere that was upscale, we would be very angry if there were ill-mannered children or babies around. If parents want to go out to a nice place, they should budget for a sitter. A place that costs an average of $100+ for a couple to just eat is no place for a small child.

Good for you , StephAce. The waitress should have applauded you.

I know I would have. I Have already told my parents that I refuse to go out with them if they bring my little sister. We were raised differently, I by my grandparents who were somewhat old fashioned but raised me well, I suppose, and my sister by her grandmother and our mother who, quite frankly, allow her to do as she pleases. I will also not go out if my cousin Olivia is joining us.

Again, I would have applauded you, my friend. You deserve a cookie or delicious item of your choice~

For once I agree with you. The worst part is when parents try to justify the actions of their unruly children.

digital, you are right...this policy "hurts" (I mean there are plenty of other places to go eat) families with well behaved kids, but you have to look at it from the owner's viewpoint.....would you want to walk up to a table with unruly kids and tell them they have to leave? open the door for HUGE problems and scenes.

For those of us who do control our kids, it's frustrating. I've had people request to be moved to another table just as I was being seated with my kids. Didn't even give them a chance. My kids have always been expected to show appropriate table manners at all times. They've never been allowed to bang, kick, throw things, get up from the table (unless it's to go to the bathroom, and then they're accompanied by an adult when they were younger). When they were babies, if they started crying one of us would take them outside to avoid disrupting other diners. It was always challenging when we would get together with extended family and go to a restaurant, as my nieces and nephews were always allowed to run around restaurants, risking tripping wait staff, bang silverware on the table, kick the backs of booths, and so on. We always explained to our kids that they had to follow OUR rules regardless of how their cousins behaved. Now that my kids are teenagers they are thankful that they have been taught proper behavior. After meals out, they will often mention what they saw kids doing and say "we would NEVER have been allowed to bother others like that!"

And the restaurant where someone asked to be moved as soon as they saw me walk in with kids - was an O'Charleys. Generally known as a family restaurant. Not like I was taking them to an exclusive eatery. When you are at a restaurant with a "kids eat fee" policy, you should expect there to be kids dining!

Disruptive patrons (of whatever age) should be asked to leave. A blanket ban is absolutely ridiculous.

My husband and I have been taking our kids out to eat at nice restaurants since our oldest was a baby in 2002, and there have only been a handful of times where I've had to remove one out to the car for being loud. We get compliments all the time about how well-behaved they are.

If you want to avoid families, go to restaurants "fashionably late". That's what we do when we want to have a child-free "date night" meal.

So digital..... are you saying you don't eat out anywhere? Since you proclaim that you don't go to restaurants that have these kind of policies I'd assume you just eat a home.... or are you a hypocrite? I ask because almost all restaurants have a policy against smokers. My guess is that you're just a hypocrite and enjoy posting nonsense to fulfill your need to seem progressive.

Digital- On planet Utopia your thought process might work fine. here on Earth, well, not so much.

Digital,

your comment is like saying a women's gym is discriminating against men. An adult oriented restaurant without a kid's menu is not a place for small children. Period.

Banning them is not a form of discrimination, any more than banning smokers is. The restaurant also wouldn't allow people to bring in their own radios either: basically, the restaurant has the right to ban anyone/anything that is disruptive to other diners and clashes with the atmosphere of the restaurant.

gday and j burk are being a tad bitter. Digital is free to spend his money how he chooses, and the bottom line is you are criticizing him for how he chooses to spend his money, the reason for the spending be damned. It's like when people tell you not to fly if you don't like going through security. They give you a smile then, but later they get MAD if you actually drive out of principle. It's like people don't want you to make your own choice.

Digital, the same sledgehammer was used with policies were put in place making it a crime to discipline your kids. A few abusive parents and now if you spank your kids bottom you can be arrested.

Oh no, if I do something wrong I might get a time out. When I got spanked it was much more effective than when I had to sit in a corner.

This is not discrimination. As a matter of fact, I think that any facility that serves alcohol should be off limits to kids. It is child endangering because there is no rule that says a parent can't have a couple drinks with dinner just because they have kids with them. See, that would be a rule not discrimination. Just like an 18 year old can grab a gun and get shipped overseas to kill but can't have a beer before he/she leaves. They are adult enough for one thing but not for another.

If you can't control your kids at home what would make you think you can do it in public? Common sense, common sense, common sense.

Restaurants are where I taught my children good manners. I have four kids and we used to eat out a lot. My kids loved to eat out and it was only on the condition that they behaved. We never had a problem, and always got compliments on how well-behaved they were.

I would be offended to see a "no kids allowed" sign on a restaurant. It's ridiculous to ban all kids because some parents allow their kids to be obnoxious. When an adult drinks too much at the bar and becomes obnoxious and offensive, he/she is asked to leave. So should people not be allowed to drink in restaurants because a few overdo it? Of course not.

The same should hold true for kids. Have a policy, written on the menu, that states that any diner, including children, who behave in a way that bothers other diners will be asked to leave. If the manager has to come over to the parents and explain that their child cannot run around the restaurant, and is bothering other guests - the parents will either realize the error of their ways and get their kid in order, or they'll get ticked off and leave. Either way, it works out. It's more appropriate to offend the parents of an unruly child, than to offend good paying families of well-behaved children by banning them.

And the restaurant where someone asked to be moved as soon as they saw me walk in with kids - was an O'Charleys.

princessbride - why was it necessary for you to include the name of the restaurant where people asked to be moved when they saw your kids? It wasn't the fault of the restaurant that the people asked to be moved and it is unfair that you are trying to generate negative publicity for that establishment. No matter how well behaved you think that your kids are, we have all had a meal, flight, movie or other event destroyed by screaming banshees whose parents do absolutely nothing to control their kids. After being burned once or twice, why should people take a chance that your kids will act differently, especially if other tables are easily available.

I included the name of the restaurant because I figured people were going to accuse me of taking my kids to a non-kid friendly restaurant. I do not blame the restaurant. My point is that if you are eating at a chain restaurant with a "kids eat free" policy, you should not be offended when someone walks in with kids. And you should not assume that all parents are incapable of keeping their children in line.

Renee - in our community there is a family style Italian restaurant that has a notice on the menu, as you suggest. It says that children are welcome, but if the parents are lax in keeping them quiet and in their seats, that the restaurant management will happily step in and show the parents how it's done. We've never been disturbed by noisy, annoying children while in this restaurant! It works!

My policy is just not to frequent businesses who discriminate, rightly or wrongly, against any segment, whether it directly affects me or not. If I wanted to take my wife out for a night on the town, we wouldn't visit this place even though we didn't have the kids with us - simply because of the policy.

I'm just the opposite -- I don't feel this is "discrimination". It would be much more discriminating if it was arbitrary. This kid is well behaved enough, this kid is not. There are many places where young children just don't belong -- and moderately-upscale to upscale restaurants is one of them!

There are plenty of family restaurants out there where kids are not only welcomed, but are catered to ... therefore there should be no problem were adults (and even older children) can go in peace.

The problem is that parents are seldom objective about their own kids. I have already read several posts on here from people who have said, "My kids were always well behaved...." I bet they really weren't all the time. If you were to confront the parents of brats in a restaurant today, I bet 90% of them would say, "She's normally SO well behaved and we normally don't have any problems with her." And any kid can have a meltdown at about any time, so even if you only allow "perfect" children in, you will still have kids screaming, etc.... Kids are kids. The answer would be to have no children sections just like they have no smoking sections. Put all the loud kids together away from everyone else and let the parents of all the kids enjoy their meals with all the kids!

Clearly, parental participation in many areas has declined to the point of ridiculousness. Ever been to a buffet? It's enough to turn your stomach in more ways than one. I have seen children lean their backsides up against produce and packaged meat in supermarkets. Disgusting! If these parents will not or cannot raise their children, the least they can do is police them. I have 3 kids and all I ever needed was "the look". LOL. Worked every time.

digitalnoise... as a father of two, I feel for you, I really do but I do not take my kids to places that I believe are for "adults"... no I'm not talking about bars or those other places that may immediately come to mind when the word "Adult" is used, have you ever been to Ruth's Chris or Morton's... I would never take my kids to either before they turned 10 years old... I just felt that the atmosphere in those places would be over their heads, besides I do believe that kids should enjoy themselves when "out", but not at the expense of bothering other people, and I feel that way about your kids and everybody else's kids when I'm out eating.

for every person like digital who refuses to go to places that ban children there will be 5 new customers who love the idea. i've never even heard of the place before this article and i want to go now.

For those who feel this policy is out of line, you also need to consider this from the standpoint of the business owner. People who allow their children to run around a restaurant are putting their children as well as everyone else in the path of the servers in danger. I cannot count the number of times I have seen small children almost burned, and in one case actually burned, by scalding hot coffee/soup because they run in front of a server with a tray full of hot food/drinks.

I have worked in the restaurant industry for the past 14 years and you would be amazed at the number of kids who are allowed to run rampant through restaurants, then when you ask the parents to settle their children down, the parents get mad.

Does it seem unfair to those who have well behaved children? Possibly, but the article clearly stated this is not a restuarant that cateres to children. They don't have a children's menu and 1/3 of their seats are in the bar. There are plenty of family oriented restaurants out there where you can take your children, leave the adult restaurants to the adults.

And for the record, I have two children who have been eating out in restaurants since they were able to sit on their own, but I don't take them to adult restaurants and I don't take them to regular restaurants on nights like New Year's and Valentines when I know the majority of people who are going out are couples who want to enjoy a quiet evening. This is not because my children are unruly or wild, but as children, they can get to be a little louder than most adults care for when out on a date.

For all of you parents who think this is a bad idea, I have two words for you... Disney World!

The problem is that these policies affect both parents of children who are well behaved, and those who aren't. It's using a sledgehammer for an ant.

So to hell with the people there without kids who want to have a quiet kid free evening? We're supposed to sit there and know that if a kid does start acting like a brat, the owner will give them the boot? Because the parents of the brat will COMPLETELY understand and leave quietly? Get real. Anyone who has kids that act like that have absolutely no clue that they are annoying the crap out of everyone else there...and if they do, they don't care. So for the "good" kids that are forced to go someplace else to eat...I'm sorry...but it is what it is and I wish more places would do the same.

What I don't get is...why is it that people with kids are so adament that EVERYONE must want to be around their kids too and if they don't they are horrible discriminatory people? I don't like to be around kids. I avoid them like the plague. How would you like it if I tried to force you to be around something you didn't like? There is a reason places like McDonald's, Chuck E Cheese, (blast from the past) Showbiz Pizza, Lasertag Pizza, etc, exist....for people to bring their kids and all come together for a screaming migraine waiting to happen meal where no one will be bothered....because it is expected there. Take them to places like that and leave my favorite mexican place off your list....I like to have my margarita in peace.

The other side of the coin is this - parents who fully expect their children to behave in a restaurant should also be mindful of what is reasonable to expect from the best behaved child. Small children are incapable of sitting still for long periods of time - even if they want to. When parents take their kids out to eat, it needs to be a place where you are served fairly quickly. It's rude and inconsiderate of parents to go to a restaurant, have drinks and appetizers, a big meal, dessert, and talk endlessly with other adults. Kids aren't part of the conversation and no matter how well behaved they are, the boredom and frustration takes over. The parents are setting the kids up for failure. Next restaurant visit, the kids are going to get irritated sooner because they remember how awful their last visit was. The way for parents to have well-behaved kids is to expect good behavior, keep the dining out time to a reasonable length depending on the age of the child, and compliment the child on how good they were afterward.

The problem is that parents are seldom objective about their own kids. I have already read several posts on here from people who have said, "My kids were always well behaved...." I bet they really weren't all the time. If you were to confront the parents of brats in a restaurant today, I bet 90% of them would say, "She's normally SO well behaved and we normally don't have any problems with her." And any kid can have a meltdown at about any time, so even if you only allow "perfect" children in, you will still have kids screaming, etc.... Kids are kids. The answer would be to have no children sections just like they have no smoking sections. Put all the loud kids together away from everyone else and let the parents of all the kids enjoy their meals with all the kids!

You've hit the nail right on the head, Bruce. I can remember being a fairly well-behaved child, but I also remember times when I was a little hellion. NO child is well-behaved ALL of the time. It's too bad that parents whose children DO behave well most of the time are being penalized - but no one ever said life is fair.

I do wonder, however, how a "no children" section of a restaurant would work. Unless it's a big restaurant that has separate rooms, it would be difficult to keep customers completely away from children. As anyone who has ever been around children knows, if a kid decides to be loud, that noise carries a LONG way.

For those who feel this policy is out of line, you also need to consider this from the standpoint of the business owner. People who allow their children to run around a restaurant are putting their children as well as everyone else in the path of the servers in danger. I cannot count the number of times I have seen small children almost burned, and in one case actually burned, by scalding hot coffee/soup because they run in front of a server with a tray full of hot food/drinks.

I'm glad someone else brought this point up. You would think that even if parents were inconsiderate enough to not care whether their children's behavior was bothering other people, they would care that their child might be hurt by running around in a crowded restaurant. Same thing with parents who let their children run around unattended in a department store - do they have ANY idea how easy it is for someone to grab a child and leave the store?

I'm just the opposite -- I don't feel this is "discrimination". It would be much more discriminating if it was arbitrary. This kid is well behaved enough, this kid is not.

Beth, actually, based on your definition it would in fact be discriminatory. Judging a group of anything for the acts of a few would be discrimination. However, discriminating doesn't always have to take on the same pc context as in race, sex, age, etc.

I don't see this as discrimination as we all know it to be, yes I see the hypocrisy, but sometimes, it is OK, as in this context. Just because one can not or should not discriminate based on race, sex, age, etc, doesn't mean it isn't ok in other circumstances such as this one. Discrimination in itself isn't an ugly word, only how it is used.

I read an article once where parents were not controlling their misbehaving children in a restaurant. The owner brought them to-go boxes and didn't charge them, and asked them to leave. However, if word got out, there would be those people who would let their kids run amok to get a free meal even if it meant embarrassment.

Read where a child was misbehaving in a restaurant and bothering other patrons, and the parents made the child go table to table and apologize for his/her behavior. Need more parents like that.

Princess I for one don't care what type of restaurant I go to I do not expect my meal to be ruined by uncontrollable brats. Parent need to do their job and be a parent and remove the offending brat immediately.

I completely agree with this choice. Yes it sucks for those that have well mannered kids, but it is his restaurant to do what he pleases. Basically saying that he wants your business as long as you aren't bringing infants or toddlers in. There are plenty of restaurants that those of you with poor mannered kids can go.

What I find humerous though is how many of you are sitting here arguing that the restaurant owner should have the choice since it is his establishment, yet that doesn't apply when it comes to smoking. So...as long as the policy fits YOUR interests, then it is a good one.

Crimson Wife - "If you want to avoid families, go to restaurants "fashionably late". That's what we do when we want to have a child-free "date night" meal."

Unless you apparently don't go out so much anymore the "parents" that are the problem take their children out at any hour of the day or night. I've been out and stopped somewhere after a movie to have a few drinks and get something to eat and there were two tables with toddlers carrying on.....AT 11:00pm. It's a simple case that some people should be allowed to breed when they couldn't conduct themselves appropriately as adults and now they're having offspring equally as out of control.

Its great to see some parents in here who say they take responsibility for their kids and make sure they are well behaved. I am sorry you feel as though you are being discriminated against, but clearly if you were in the majority these kinds of policies wouldn't have to be put in place.

I don't eat out with my in laws anymore because her 6 year old stood up and walked down the middle of a long table, and her, her husband, and her other 4 brats thought it was funny. It has caused problems with my wife, but she accepts it now. Ours didn't dare do stuff like that. It blows me away at how some of these people think their little brats do no wrong.

I have a neice whose mom lets he do as she wishes Most of the family will no longer go out to eat with them, or will lie to say we're "going home" when we're actually rendezvous-ing at a nearby restaurant sans-kids.

This lovely child sat across the table from me and pushed her feet against the table edge almost spilling my drink into my lap. Without missing a beat, the mom kept talking and just gently pushed her daughter's feet off the table edge. No apology, no correction!! And later, when she got so out of control that there was no choice but to leave, she made her husband do it, while she finished her meal and simply said "It's been a long day." And this is with family!

I can only say that my sister-in -law, as lovely as she is, has only a passing interest in discipline and is more interested in trying the newest and latest fads in parenting, which is not leading to the most pleasant of experiences for everyone around her.

What I find humerous though is how many of you are sitting here arguing that the restaurant owner should have the choice since it is his establishment, yet that doesn't apply when it comes to smoking.

Kayner - In many ways, the issue of smoking is exactly the same as the issue of unruly kids. Namely, if smokers would obey signs and requests to refrain from smoking in certain areas, there would not be any need to pass laws prohibiting smoking. Certain parents infringe upon the rights of others to enjoy a pleasant meal by refusing to discipline their kids. Smokers risk the health of others by lighting up.

princessbride - it's still the right of any diner to enjoy a meal without a brat screaming in his or her ear, regardless of whether a restaurant is kids friendly. You need to get over the fact that people asked to be seated at a different table to avoid being near your kids. Why should they have to accept the table next to yours only to have to request a different one after their dinner arrives if your kids happen to be the unruly type? Including the name of the restaurant is still crass because not everyone has ever heard of O'Charleys and because it is unnecessary when trying to make your point.

So is it discriminatory if you are asked to leave a strip club with your child when they have a lunch buffet?

There is actually a club near here that serves a huge buffet at lunch. Not that I have ever frequented that particular establishment!

Luckily my little heathens usually only act out at home. We often get compliments. If we're going to be in public, they're generally allowed to bring along one small quiet toy (eg matchbox car), and the 4 year old has been trained to respond to 'the look'. I also keep a baggie of cheerios to distract the 1 year old in case he gets too chatty. We will leave a place if they're too disruptive, and the only public place they're allowed to run and scream at is the park...

John said "There is actually a club near here that serves a huge buffet at lunch. Not that I have ever frequented that particular establishment!"

Sure you haven't ;)

@Stang Salie - I don't think you are a horrible person for not liking children, I actually applaud you for knowing your personal limitations and being responsible in your decision to not have children, if only more people would realize they don't like kids, there may be fewer allowed to annoy the heck out of everyone else.

@VickiC and Bruce - I can actually say with confidence that my children have never misbehaved in a restaurant, they are only 7 and 9 and with having worked in restaurants for 14 years, they were never allowed to misbehave. If they were to start acting up and getting loud, they are told once to sit down or quiet down, after that we would have left, but it only ever took once becuase they knew the consequences. We also got them used to going out to eat at the restaurant I worked at, this way they got to enjoy all the attention of everyone stopping by to say hi, which gave them a better tolerance for the length of time it takes to get the food.

I will admit, my older son has been taken out of a store once for throwing a tantrum, he had to sit in the car with dad while my younger son and I finished the shopping. At the end of the trip, as we always do, we stopped by the bakery for a free cookie, when he got to the car with his cookie, his older brother realized what his bad behavior cost him. Neither of them have ever acted up again.

@skiddy and musique - I have a similar situation. We went out with my sister-in-law and her two brats, I mean boys, last Christmas. The older one kept trying to run away and the younger one spent the entire meal crying. My sister-in-law actually looked at him at one point and said "do you realize you are ruining everyone's meal?" Seriously, he was not two. I wanted to look at her and say, do you realize you are ruining everyone's meal? Thankfully, we were the only table in the restaurant at the time.

I have multiple kids and even more child relatives. I fully appreciate the difference between a family restaurant and an adult one. I like having restaurants around that are adult-only. When I want a night out away from mine, it's good to have a place to go where someone else's won't ruin the time off. I love kids but it's nice to have a few grown-up moments now and then.

@digitalnoise;

Some people abused the 'report' button and tried to use it as a 'disagree' vote, thus closing your comment. I decided to repost it for you, since there was nothing wrong with it.

If need be, I'll post it again later on too. The more that they try to suppress free speech, the more I'll post it, and the more it will be seen.

It is only time before newsvine will take action against those abusing the report button.

From digitalnoise:
The problem is that these policies affect both parents of children who are well behaved, and those who aren't. It's using a sledgehammer for an ant.

My policy is just not to frequent businesses who discriminate, rightly or wrongly, against any segment, whether it directly affects me or not. If I wanted to take my wife out for a night on the town, we wouldn't visit this place even though we didn't have the kids with us - simply because of the policy.

I'm not ignorant enough to think that my not frequenting places with these policies has any real affect on their bottom line, but it's a matter of principle to me; and I have, in the past, steered rather large amounts of business away from these business owners (catering, office lunches, etc.).

Sandle wrote "I have 3 kids and all I ever needed was "the look". LOL. Worked every time."

Not all of us have Medusa for a wife.

Hey Vinnie,

I can tell by your comment how you were raised. Guess its too late now. My comment referred to the fact that I raised my children to behave themselves when out in public at places like restaurants and the like. They had more leeway at home but they were taught and knew my expectations of them when in public from an early age. If they needed a reminder of that, they got "the look" that told them to rethink and amend their current course of action. Two of the three are now adults, good and productive people. The youngest is a great kid with a huge heart who was taught better manners than to speak ill of someone's mother. Guess I can't say the same for you and yours.

Sorry, but if me and my husband are spending over $100 on a meal, there shouldn't be anything that negates our experience. For those who bring their child outside when they misbehave, guess what? Its too late and your child has already interrupted others' meals. You want to bring your small child to a place that is going to cost that much, be prepare to pay for everyone's meal the second that child lets out even a shriek.

Its not illegal if it is a private establishment. If it was a chain, yes, but technically, he can keep people with brown eyes out if he wants.

Hahahaha - that's awesome! Open a restaurant called Hansel & Gretel's with a big oven in the corner that says "Feed Me Rowdy Children"

We sometimes visit a restaurant that has a wonderful children's play space, but with a sign reading something like "Unattended children will be given unlimited Red Bull and a free puppy".

LOL@ NEGal. Now, THAT'S a perfect way to instill terror into the hearts of parents everywhere.

LOL Culheath...I have a great name for the dish...Brat-Worst!

NewEngGal----I read of an antique store with a sign reading UNATTENDED CHILDREN WILL BE GIVEN A FREE KITTEN; it worked well for them. for the ( well-behaved ) children who did ask for a kitten, they kept a supply of little stuffed toy kittens.

cookykamp that's pretty funny.

While I agree with many of these people, what they don't seem to realize is that everyone is being punished here. Why not allow the kids but have the balls to kick patrons out that are disturbing the peace? Why punish the parents who have well-behaved kids? I've been seeing signs in restaurants stating they have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason for years. Why not just use that and be strict about the behavior code? That way only irresponsible parents are punished.

Really42.....do you think that they would leave peacefully? Doubtful. More than likely if that was how the restaurant chose to deal with it, those with unruly kids would only further disturb everyone there when asked to leave. Everyone isn't being punished....the people with no kids or who just want a kid free evening think this is the best thing since sliced bread.....myself included.

It probably is cute to the parent. So adorable!

Big difference between flying and going out to eat.....when you fly you are simply going to be amongst other people of all kinds going where they need/want to go....driving is now always option....to demand a ban on children from flights is ignorant and childish...and frankly selfish. Yes, parents should try to keep their kids reasonably quiet and well behaved....and adults try to act like adults.

When you choose a resturant you should be able to reasonably expect a certain kind of atmosphere depending on your choice. Parents who take small children to an adult, more upscale resturant are also being selfish....they believe they have the right to take their child anywhere and have no regard for the other patrons. These are the same people who will let their toddler/youngster wander all over the resturant...yelling....and acting like...well, children...disturbing the other diners....then will become irate and abusive when asked to keep their child under control.

You just don't seem to like children at all.....which is fine....as a child you probably weren't all that popular yourself.

I'd be in favor of "child free" flights if they also offered alcohol-free family flights. Drunk passengers in my experience are *FAR* more unruly and disruptive than small children.

I'd pay extra for child free flights but then I'd pay extra for tourist free flights as well. Flying has gotten to be a nightmare between the people who fly once every few years, their children and the airlines. Every Monday feels like you're headed into battle.

As for children in restaurants... well I've seen some really lovely children in restaurants but it's been quite a while. We live in a narcissistic culture where parents believe what they want is the only thing that matters. To all of you that think this is a harsh ban, is it less harsh for me to have to discipline your children because you're too tired or you think their behavior is cute?

The problem, as correctly stated in the article is that people have no sense. They bring their children everywhere no matter who they offend, upset or disturb. Once upon a time parents understood an upscale restaurant was no place for a two year old. Two year olds are two year olds and much like teenagers can often only be loved by a parent. Now people just do what they want. So this restaurant has stepped to manage the situation.

The message here is, manage your children or stay home. It is excellent. More business should do this.

@Hoyahoo - I glare at those kids when the parents look away and usually it works. lol

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never been on a flight interrupted by either drunks or unruly children. There have been crying babies and toddlers, including mine, but I don't count those as misbehaving children. Babies cry. It's the only way they are able to express themselves. If I didn't have the power of speech, I'd probably spend most of a flight weeping myself.

Babies crying on planes, sucks. driving is not an option when going over the pond (s). What many parents refuse to accept is . I DON'T LOVE YOUR CHILDREN THE WAY YOU LOVE THEM. What you think is cute and childish, is many times positively outrageous and annoying to the rest of the world. Many children are well behaved, however an ever increasing number are simply spoiled misbahaving brats.

As far as flying with children is concerned, a pair of Bose noise reduction headphones (sealed cushion type) pretty much takes care of most noises from babbling children to babbling drunks. Plus I tend to be more indulgent toward flying with babies as their little ears give them problems with shifting cabin pressure. It can be annoying, but what the hell as long as its not a 7 hour overseas flight I can deal with it.

As far as restaurants are concerned, its a private business and I let the management decide their own policies. When my brother and I were small children my parents would occasionally take us to their favorite "supper club" where we would have to behave for way too long while my parents had after dinner cigarettes, drinks and conversation. My mother would actually bring paper and colored pencils to occupy us during this time but no matter what if we got out of hand my father would let it be known quite clearly that such behavior was NOT permitted.

Just show me where to pay extra for child-free flights. I'll pay. Until then, I simply glare at the little bastards until they cry. Then, at least, I have made the parent miserable as well.

On one particular flight, one that had a rare gem of a little beast, i looked at the mother and said, "If you cannot raise them stop breeding them!"

Got a standing ovation.

I just got back from a long flight where the two-year old

I stopped reading after that. What the hell can a person do about a two year old? Smack them? Give them a serious talking to? You may be one of those people who thinks your dog can understand what you are saying as well.

Some folks expect much more maturity, courtesy, and self-control from a two-year old than they have themselves mastered.

I simply glare at the little bastards until they cry.

What really amazes me is that any adult would actually admit to this and think being that kind of person is anything to pat themselves on the back for. It's bad enough that parents are letting their kids run wild but then we also have to deal with adults who have not learned how to act right either.

I glare at those kids when the parents look away and usually it works. lol

So true! Years ago I was at ROSS with my mom and this 2 year old in the cart was screaming and her parents were not doing anything. After a minute or two, I looked over and gave her this evil look - shut her up quick!

U of Chicago student- My dogs do understand a lot of what I say. When I ask if they want to go out, they let me know. When I tell them to stop doing something, they stop, when I tell them to not pee on something they dont. When they are eating something I dont want them to eat and I tell them to stop, they stop. When I tell them to not bark, they stop. If teaching dogs is this easy, why is trying to teach a child so hard? Which is smarter?

You may be one of those people who thinks your dog can understand what you are saying as well.

My dog might not understand what I'm saying, but if I know that there's a good possibility that she won't behave, she stays home. And, that's where young children should be until they're old enough to understand how to behave.

Dogs understand agression, which is what passes in some places for communication. Babies don't, it just makes them scream more.

no, dogs have more desire to please their master than a child does to please it's parents. you seem to assume people have to be aggressive with their dog which is simply untrue.

Ok there, Hoyahoo, so what I'm hearing is that because it's inconvenient for you, all families should be banned from air travel. Smart. Frankly, the last flight I was on, the adults flying with their teens for a softball comeptition were louder, rowdier, and altogether worse than my two year old quietly sitting reading her book. I think we should ban loud, rowdy parents too. Heck, lets ban all groups from air travel.

And while we're at it, let's go and ban business people! I can't stand how they have to put their suit jacket in the overhead compartment, blocking overhead bin access. Speaking of, their travel cases are way too big! We should ban them for that reason too. And they ALWAYS have to get on the phone RIGHT as they land! As if it's their right to make a phone call when it bothers me!

And what about seniors? They take way too much time to get on and off the plane, and geez, when they have to use the wheelchair. Ugh, so slow!

Flight attendants! They're always talking to you, asking if you need anything. Leave me alone!

What about college students? Their music is always way too loud!

What a slippery slope this seems to be.....

No....dogs don't want to please you. I have trained enough animals to know they are in it for the reward. Also not a good model to be pursuing with children.

I am sorry, but I can see where the childless flights is not outrageous. I understand that driving is not always an option, but then again, so is waiting to take a vacation until your children are old enough to behave themselves. I have a 7 and a 9 year old. Up until last year, we took only local vacations that we could drive to so we didn't have to worry about them misbehaving on the plane, or worse, spending the couple of hours crying because their ears hurt. Not only is this annoying to the other passengers, but frankly, why would you want to put a small child through that?

Just yesterday there was a blurb about the Octomom and an actress getting into an argument beacuse the 8 two year olds were running rampant through the plane. When the actress said something to her, Nadia asked how she thought she should control 8 two year olds, to which the actress responded, "get more help." To which I agree, otherwise, simply don't fly with kids you cannot control. The same goes for any public situation. If you cannot or will not control your kids, don't take them out in public.

@University student - dogs can understand people, this is why you are able to train them to respond on command. I can give my dog one of many commands and she will respond appropriately to it, none of which are issued with aggression, and all of which result in the same treatment from me, whether it is for her to sit to get her leash on or off, to go potty, or to shake or bow for a treat, she understands all these commands.

Justme-517872:

Please explain to me why I am unable to express my displeasure at a child or parent that behaves badly on a flight? Do i not have the right to peace and quiet? Why am I looked down upon simply because I look bad behavior in the eye and call it for what it is?

Jeff in Houston

You have a right to buy a ticket on a plane, just like everyone else. You also have a right to drive somewhere if the atmosphere of a cramped airplane and the visual and aural conditions therein are not pleasing to you.

Even better, please explain why it is such a crime for a child to cry about the pressure in their ears but okay for you to purposely intimidate a year old to the point of making them cry? What makes one an "offense" and one something to brag about?

If indeed that parent did not make any effort to calm a wild kid or make it behave, absolutely I can understand it is irritating. A week ago I was on an international flight full of kids. I expected some irritation simply because they are kids. I don't have to money to book a private jet so it's part of life - gotta share space with others.

What I criticize in your post is that you obviously think it's okay to terrorize a two year old. You're supposed to be the adult. Can you not express your displeasure like an adult? Spewing meanness and hatred at other adults and bullying two year olds is somehow more acceptable than a kid making noise?

chicago, the reward is being a loved family member. the dog gets that from pleasing it's master. it's a pavlov effect that it sees doing what it's told means being loved.

I've seen unruly children on flights a lot more often than I've seen drunks. And I'd still take the drunks over the children. If your children can't behave, don't subject us to them.

You just don't seem to like children at all.....which is fine....as a child you probably weren't all that popular yourself.

See....it's comments like that right there that irritate me to no end. I don't like to be around kids, I don't have kids for that reason....does that make me a bad person? You seem to think so by what you posted to Hoyahoo. Not everyone has to like kids just like not everyone has to like spinach or puppies or lollipops. Get over yourself.

I just got back from a long flight where the two-year old

I stopped reading after that. What the hell can a person do about a two year old? Smack them? Give them a serious talking to? You may be one of those people who thinks your dog can understand what you are saying as well.

Obviously you don't have children. Even a two-year-old can be taught how to behave well. Haven't you ever heard a parent tell a small child to use his indoor voice? They can even be taught simple manners such as saying "please" and "thank you".

In addition: if you HAD continued to read the post, you would have noticed that the poster was complaing about a child who was shrieking pretty much non-stop throughout the flight. There is NO reason for that to be happening with a two-year-old.

I blame a lot on lazy parenting, they threaten and don't follow through, doesn't take long for a kid to catch on to this???

I remember when my kids were little, trying to teach them to behave in a store. I told them if they didn't behave when they got home they would be punished. Didn't affect them, so I left as soon as I could. After some time, when we got home and unloaded the car, they took off to play...I said "excuse me, I think you boys are going to time out", and they did. I also told them if they acted like that again they wouldn't go to the store, restaurant, whatever for a very long time, and I meant it. If I needed to go, I would have to wait until my husband or someone else could watch them. It may be inconvenient but it worked. Do this a couple of times and they remember.

If lazy parents would realize that if they stick to their guns and follow through with realistic threats (not: your grounded for the rest of your life nonsense), they would soon realize their kids will start behaving more because they know the parent will follow-through. It may be a little work up front, but in the long run it pays off.

Dr. Phil had a mother who was exhausted chasing around after her four kids who were constantly getting into stuff or into trouble...Dr. Phil said "that's not parenting, that's chasing"!

Apperantly dogs are more intelligent then the brats in restaurants as they do as they are expected to act, sit and stay when told. :-)

So, for so many of you that are posting how you make the kids cry or scared, what you are saying is that its ok for you (an adult) to pick on a two year old (who is just learning how to listen and behave) but if another kid does it, they should be punished for bullying. Those of you who I speak of are just as childish as the toddlers, except the toddlers have the excuse of being 2 while you are supposedly a grown adult. You should be proud.

I completely agree with the ban because it is the owners choice, but some of you on here are simply ignorant mean ol bastards.

Obviously you don't have children. Even a two-year-old can be taught how to behave well.

Actually I do have a two year old which is why I know that no toddler is perfect 100% of the time. Those saying they never had a single issue with their toddler either don't really have kids or have selective memory. Toddlers are not perfect - they are learning how to express and deal with their emotions, how to behave properly, how to articulate things, etc.

I also know that a 2 year old is simply not designed to sit in one spot for long periods of time which is exactly why I choose family restaurants with buffets. Quick in, eat, and back out. I already know if I take her to a restaurant which requires a few hours to eat is not going to work for either me or her.

And I don't care if the kid was crying the whole time. Who is to say the kid didn't have a medical problem or was autistic? Even if neither are true that makes it okay to bully a small child into crying? How can we demand high standards from kids if we have none for adults?

Barry, well said.

VickiC

There is most definitely a reason for a two-year-old to be crying non-stop on a flight. There have been plenty of flights that my ears, as an adult, hurt so bad from the pressure change that I just wanted to cry. A toddler doesn't understand why their ears are hurting or how to express this...so they cry. There isn't much you can do to soothe a child when this happens either.

I do have children. I have grandchildren. They all behaved or do behave. There is no other option open to them. They are children. We are the adults.

i think it is all of you that guard your precious little darlings that have completely forgotten those two points.

And, as you children grow up to be the spoiled, entitled, insolent so-called adults you are raising, i will set back and watch this country to go right to hell. But by all means, let us dare not in any way crush the spirit of your adorable little child. No discipline. No rules. Those would mean you have to take responsibility for your breeding habits.

You are not parents. You are little more than children yourselves.

Justme-517872

So, i am completely out of line to expect your feral offspring to behave the way mine behave? i made the effort to be a good parent. have you?

Justme-517872

What I criticize in your post is that you obviously think it's okay to terrorize a two year old. You're supposed to be the adult. Can you not express your displeasure like an adult? Spewing meanness and hatred at other adults and bullying two year olds is somehow more acceptable than a kid making noise?

As a matter of fact, it is. The child is obviously being patently obnoxious. The parent is incabable of making the little vermin bahave, even after we all ask the parent to do something about the beast.

Nothing is done.

We asked nicely.

You bet I am going to retaliate against the parent for invading my peace and quiet.

It is not, I repeat, NOT unreasonable to expect parents to keep their children in line! If I have to shame the parent in to doing their job, beleive me, I will do it....and it will work. I will make them as miserable as they made me, and they will think twice about bording a place again, at least until the beast learns some manners.

Jeff in Houston wrote "Just show me where to pay extra for child-free flights. I'll pay."

Fly first class or business class and don't shop for flights by low price.

"Until then, I simply glare at the little bastards until they cry. Then, at least, I have made the parent miserable as well."

The weak and innocent are easy to bully.

Jeff in Houston wrote "i looked at the mother and said, "If you cannot raise them stop breeding them!"""

If you actually told another person this, I'd say you are an example of a bratty adult. It's another thing to write an opinion on the Internet.

Face it, there are a lot of parents who do not have the first idea of HOW to parent. It seems crazy to me for one to have a child without knowiing how to raise a child but that horse left the barn long ago. Some do manage to rise above their shortcomings in this area by learning all they can to be a responsible parent. We were not totally ready for the overwhelming job of parenting when our first child came along. But we did what we had to do and honestly, even accounting for the times when I thought I was going to pull all of my hair out, I would not have missed the experience of being a parent for anything. Could I have been happy without being a parent? Of course. But what these three lives have brought to my life is so sweet and so rich, I could never repay them. Children who misbehave do not happen in a vacuum. It starts with the parents. A recently televised trial is but one such example. As for children flying, my youngest and I were on a flight one month after 9/11. She was 18 months old and could fly seated on my lap. We found our seat, it was a two seat row and the other passenger was already seated. She took one look at us and I thought she was going to be ill. I said nothing. I got us settled in and off we went. Eventually a conversation began and the other passenger and myself and my daughter had a great flight. The other passenger admitted that she was unhappy when she saw that she had been seated next to an baby due to bad experiences in the past. I told her that I understood but that she should not be so quick to judge all by the previous experiences she had. Today my daughter is eleven and still sweet. Just a little more "mouth" on her but no real problems, knock wood. To those who know they do not want children, I applud you for knowing yourself. Women are often made to feel like something is wrong with them when they say they do not want children. Ignore that.

It is not, I repeat, NOT unreasonable to expect parents to keep their children in line! If I have to shame the parent in to doing their job, beleive me, I will do it....and it will work.

I can agree with this first part. It is not by any stretch unreasonable to expect parents to "man up" and be a parent. You can't shame an adult into being a parent. They either are on or they aren't and bullying their child sure isn't going to change that. "Staring at the little bastards until they cry" is teaching something but the lesson is about you and how far you still have to go on your maturity level and learning how to behave with dignity and maturity in public.

As Vincent said..."The weak and innocent are easy to bully". I'm surprised being a parent yourself that you don't see anything wrong with terrorizing small children. My ex is the type who would do that too but then again he's got a restraining order on him until next year.

Last night I couldn't help but appreciate the irony when I ended up at McD's with my daughter and the stranger next to us couldn't get over how one so little was sitting quietly eating her food and didn't make a mess while the other kids around were yelling and fussing. I guess teaching her meal time is not play time is paying off. Did you teach your kids or did you just stare at the little bastards until they cried? Just curious and since you're questioning my parenting it's your turn.

We took our one and a half year old on a flight to Mexico. Toward the end, he got cranky and nothing worked. He didn't want any of the things we had brought to keep him busy - snacks, drinks, toys, books, even an iPod. He just flat wanted to get up and move around. It happens. No matter how much you teach and instruct a child and prepare for long trips, children are unpredictable and have not yet developed the patience that I'm sure makes you incredibly tolerable in unpleasant situations. Does that mean no one in the family who lives further than a car ride away gets to experience his childhood? That he has to wait until he's six or seven to meet them? Or that maybe you can try to tune out his crying for the last 15 minutes of your flight, and go your merry way knowing that it's my problem now, and not yours? I put up with quite a bit from idiots who drive crazy, are rude in public, and impose their ridiculous beliefs on society. You can tolerate my relatively well-behaved offspring for a few minutes if they have a rough day. They will be paying into your social security some day, so just consider it an occupational nuisance.

Of course, this doesn't apply to unchecked brats. Parents, raise your children.

Eli, Great post :o) I remember reading somewhere that 2 yr olds are not designed yet for sitting in one place still for any significant length of time. A long flight is torture for them. Some handle it better than others naturally just as some adults do. There are loads of adults who irritate and/or inconvenience me all of the time and I deal with it because that's the price of living with other human beings on this planet. There are a whole lot of people out there young and old who need to grow up and learn to share.

We took our one and a half year old on a flight to Mexico. Toward the end, he got cranky and nothing worked. He didn't want any of the things we had brought to keep him busy - snacks, drinks, toys, books, even an iPod. He just flat wanted to get up and move around. It happens. No matter how much you teach and instruct a child and prepare for long trips, children are unpredictable and have not yet developed the patience that I'm sure makes you incredibly tolerable in unpleasant situations. Does that mean no one in the family who lives further than a car ride away gets to experience his childhood?

Yes.

That he has to wait until he's six or seven to meet them?

Yes.

Or that maybe you can try to tune out his crying for the last 15 minutes of your flight, and go your merry way knowing that it's my problem now, and not yours?

No.

I put up with quite a bit from idiots who drive crazy, are rude in public, and impose their ridiculous beliefs on society. You can tolerate my relatively well-behaved offspring for a few minutes if they have a rough day.

I will not. And, if you read the postings here agree with me. Control you children or keep them away from civilized people. Period.

They will be paying into your social security some day, so just consider it an occupational nuisance.

I doubt i will see a dime of social security. That is why I pay my own way, and I expect to get what I pay for. Including first class airline tickets.

Justme-517872

Explain to me again why i need to share/participate/endure a problem of your creation, that i had nothing to do with at all, that i did not ask for in any way, nor force you to take on. You took up the responsibility of being a parent. Do the job.

Jeff, Wow. You're actually suggesting that Eli's family should not be able to know her kids until they're older so that you don't have to be bothered with anything you don't wish to? Are you just baiting people or are you serious? I'm having a hard time believing you're as selfish and immature as you're presenting yourself to be only because I rarely meet an adult who is that bad off.

Explain to me again why i need to share/participate/endure a problem of your creation, that i had nothing to do with at all, that i did not ask for in any way, nor force you to take on. You took up the responsibility of being a parent. Do the job.

Quite frankly you don't own this planet and at some point you have to learn how to deal with the fact that you are not the only person on it and not everyone on this planet is going to bend over and cater to your whims. Since you do in fact have to share Earth with others, you will have to endure things at times you'd prefer not to. That's life and that's reality. Grow up. Really. Or stay out of the public and don't inflict your personal problems that were not of our creation on the rest of us.

And don't worry - at the age of two my daughter has already mastered much more of that concept than you have so you won't have to worry about her. She gets the concept of sharing, helping others, being nice, etc.

And neither do you own the planet. Certianly the little primates do not . . . at least not yet.

Stalemate.

The only advantage I have, I suppose, is the ability to pay for peace and quiet. I do not think i should have to, but as you say, the world is populated with . . . all kinds of creatures. Though I do worry about the direction we are headed when I see how children are being raised. I will not be around for the social Armageddon, but i am sure today's parents will pass out the candy and sodas when it finally occurs.

But please note: I am one of the quietest people you would ever meet. My friends and I never raise a fuss unless provoked. And yes, i have gone out of my way to complement parents with well-behaved children, few as those compliments have been. I insist on my privacy and i defend those who feel the same way.

One final question: If things are as okay as you purport them to be, then why is there a problem in this discussion at all? Why is American education going downhill at a rapid rate? Why is juvenile crime out of control?

Answer: Because the parents rush to defend their little darlings, insist on a loosening of discipline and standards, all to compensate for the lousy job they did as parents.

And any newspaper you pick up or television news broadcast you care to select will back me up.

Not exactly stalemate. It only means that we (society) have to learn how to share and deal with all different types in our everyday lives.

I couldn't help smiling at the thought you are a rather quiet person. You have painted yourself as a rather venemous person in many of your posts. Lol I'd probably be rather surprised if I met you. Are you perhaps just enjoying having a spot to vent?

The reason why I have a problem with making it socially acceptable to spew hate and venom at anyone with kids is that the ugliness ends up not being confined to only being directed at slacker parents - it ends up being directed at anyone with children. I've been the recipient of that before and it really sucks for me just as much as it sucks for you to be stuck near someone who lets their kid run wild. I have had a lunch out with my family ruined because of an adult who had never learned to act right in public simply because I have a kid.

I agree with your answer about parents defending their little angels iso stepping up and parenting them as they should. No argument there. Between nosey strangers presuming to to step in if they don't agree with a parent's actions and the "be a friend to your kid" bs wayyyyy too many parents are not teaching their kids discipline or proper behaviour.

I am not in favor of loosening up on discipline and standards any more than I am in favor of lowering our standards of behaviour as adults. When hate is directed at small children, do you think they are learning anything good? Iso acting like monsters ourselves, I'd really prefer that adults set a better example.

Are you seriously implying that you hearing my child cry for 15 minutes equates to you raising him? Because if that's so, I sure hope you haven't had and never do have children, if all you're going to do for eighteen years is hear them cry.

Being a parent is not about making sure your child is never upset. It's about teaching him to deal with uncomfortable situations graciously and accepting that he won't always have things his way. Apparantly, you missed these lessons in your childhood. I won't place blame, but I hear those lessons fall to one's parents.

Excuse me... But those complaining about the one who glared at the child?

It's called 'the look' and it had me behaving like a good girl when I was little. Yeesh...i can still remember Papa's glare. Scary.

I find it amazing that kids can be going crazy and parents act like it's acceptable.....but i'm guessing their home is a madhouse....

LU - That's exactly it. Parents get used to tuning out certain behavior because it doesn't bother them. They forget that other people are not used to it, and it is bothersome. They aren't all bad parents - sometimes they just aren't thinking.

I glare at those kids when the parents look away and usually it works.

Truly it does often work! Sometimes just a no-nonsense look from another adult does the trick! Sorry for those who don't LIKE it when another adult does that to YOUR kids -- but if parents mastered it, there would be a lot fewer of these discussions.

"My dining experience was awful" waahhhhhh. Want me to call the wambulance for you. I'm so sick of you overly sensitive, politically correct dining yuppies. Is your life so boring that you are worried about your dining experiene? You just can't have an interruption in your day? I'd like to ban knitwits like you from a restaurant so I don't have to look you. You're probably the type that complains to a waiter that they didn't put enough ice in your glass of water. A real pain in the ass. A two-year old will not always behave to your standards. If you don't like the occasional interruption then eat at home. I hope that parents stop going to these places that are banning children and run them out of business. People in this country just bitch and complain to no end...evidence by this discussion.

If I am going to pay for a meal I want to be able to enjoy it with the company I am there with. Not all two year olds are disruptive, but what I will not tolerate are children running around the restaurant, crawling under the tables, throwing food, and screaming for their entire visit. I understand that small disruptions are to be expected from small children and even adults sometimes, but I think you are missing the entire point or have never experience the level of rudeness from parents that would lead to a decision like this by a restaurant.

People who don't understand tantrums either

a) haven't had a kid or
b) don't know how to parent.

I'm not saying that the parents shouldn't remove the child from a public situation. I do it all the time with my 19 month old. But understand this - when you "pay attention" to a tantrum, it only begets more tantrums. The only way to stop them is to ignore them or to remove them from the situation, then ignore them.

Unfortunately, many parents hear the first step, and neglect to understand the second works just as well. Pick the screaming child up, sit him/her in the car, get in and ignore them until the tantrum stops. Simple.

For you "stern look" people, thanks for screwing up. That does nothing more than reinforce that their tantrum gets them some sort of attention. Class act.

It amazes me how the me generation of the sixties and seventies begat the me generation of the 80s and 90s, which begat this new generation of parents. The problem now is that you have me-boomers complaining that THEIR dinners are ruined because of some "SELFISH" parent, who more than likely is being selfish, because of the me-boomer parent they had.

ed, i hope they stop going too. more adults who don't have kids will start going and the business will probably pick up. i mean kid's meals are usually at best half of what an adult meal costs so even if only 1 adult comes in for every 2 kids they'll still be making the same amount of money. parents control your kids cause otherwise more places will start doing this and make your only options for dining out places like mcdonald's.

mojiody, people who didn't have kids shouldn't have to understand tantrums, only that your child is being rude and therefore you are by not dealing with it. if you can't deal with it because of some parenting rule that you're supposed to ignore their tantrums don't bring them to a place where you are expected to have a certain level of behavior cause you already know you're not going to meet those expectations. mcdonald's doesn't care how your child acts so take them there.

@ed - I have two children and they never behaved in a restaurant and if they started to misbehave in a store they were told once to stop, if they didn't stop we simply left the store, typically, they didn't misbehave agais as they knew it wouldn't be tolerated. I absolutely agree with Dianne, control your kids, it really isn't that difficult, I have actually taken my two children, ages 7 and 9 as well as my 4 year old niece and 2 year old twin niece and nephew out to eat without problems because they are not allowed to be overly wild or loud at any given time and tantrums yield them nothing more than a banishment to their bedroom until they are done.

A two-year old will not always behave to your standards. If you don't like the occasional interruption then eat at home.

@Ed .. you are right, which is why toddlers should not be taken to these sorts of restaurants. It's THEY who should stay and eat at home.

I'd like to ban knitwits like you from a restaurant so I don't have to look you

Somehow I suspect you are one of those "knitwits" (sic) who have the unruly kids and don't want to parent them.

For you "stern look" people, thanks for screwing up. That does nothing more than reinforce that their tantrum gets them some sort of attention. Class act.

Actually, the "stern look" can work perfectly well - IF the child knows that there are consequences that will follow. When I was a kid, both my mom and my grandmother used The Look on my brother and me - and we knew darned well that what it meant was "If you don't stop that behavior RIGHT NOW, there will be hell to pay as soon as we leave here". Worked beautifully with us, and it worked equally well with my own son.

--mojiody, people who didn't have kids shouldn't have to understand tantrums, only that your child is being rude and therefore you are by not dealing with it.

Yes, that's right, my child is being "rude". You do realize, that a 19 month-2 year old doesn't understand the concept of "rude", right? I DO agree, if you READ my post, that a parent doing NOTHING at all is not appropriate, the same effect can be taken by removing the child from the situation THEN ignoring the tantrum. But why read the entire post when you can just cull what you want to make your point?

I also agree that there is a time and a place for child dinners. My wife and I are foodies, and we would never bring our child to a restaraunt that we would consider to not be a family place. That being said, McDonalds should not be the only place to have a family meal. There's a medium somewhere, but it seems that some posters on here would love for it to just be the bottom of the barrel.

As for not understanding tantrums, far be it from me to suggest that a human understand human nature.

-- Actually, the "stern look" can work perfectly well - IF the child knows that there are consequences that will follow.

I agree, it can and does work well, but not with a child that's in the middle of a temper tantrum, and not from a stranger. It all depends on the age.

@ Beth (sic) (sic) (sic) whatever that means...somehow I suspect you are a weirdo

@ everyone else I'll eat wherever the hell I want to eat. Any responsible parent would ask for the check if their kids are acting out and won't calm down. My kids are well behaved 95% of the time but I'm not going to pretend that they have NEVER had an outburst in a restaurant. They are 2 & 4. If they don't calm down after a minute my wife and I ask for the check and a to-go container and leave. HOWEVER if one of my kids starts yelling or crying and we get him to calm down after a few seconds and someone close to our table decides they want to act like a jackass and shoots me or my kids dirty looks I will quietly encourage them to continue the behavior. It turns into a game with my wife and I with the kids. I think its funny that people get that irritated. With any luck they will get up and walk out which is the absolute best. Usually the kids get a good chuckle out of it too and calm down afterwards.

Ed I've got news for you banning kids will not run the restaurant out of business it will increase business as soon as the word gets out. I'm certainly not a yuppie and far from it but if the brat can't behave in public leave it at home with a sitter. You sound like you have wonderful parenting skills. NOT. It would be great if 50% of restaurants or better banned kids maybe then parents would do their job and be a parent.

@ Ed, these places will not go out of business because more people without kids will frequent them, and more often!

Ed1556361 - ""My dining experience was awful" waahhhhhh. Want me to call the wambulance for you. I'm so sick of you overly sensitive, politically correct dining yuppies. Is your life so boring that you are worried about your dining experiene? You just can't have an interruption in your day?"

I have a 2-1/2 year old and what you're saying is ignorant. There is a VAST difference between normal toddler behavior and what people try to pass off as "normal". It's never been acceptable to let your children scream for an hour, running around the tables, acting like little miscreants. When I try to go out for a peaceful meal I don't expect to have to deal with other parents lack of ability to teach their children nor should I have to be subjected to their brats that they aren't raising.

What a way to teach your gets good manners and how to deal with other people. They are going to grow up and do that to the wrong person and get their butts kicked, good parenting ED!

You should probably have your kids taken away, first you admonish them for bad behavior then you encourage it just to piss somebody off. What kind of parent are you. Your poor kids.

Borac - I'm teaching my kids a life lesson and that is not to let miserable impatient @!$%#heads like you ruin their day.

Ed - There is no excuse for poor parenting. My kids are now 16 and 17 and were taught from the beginning what was and was not acceptable behavior. We were able to take them places with us when they were small because they knew how to behave. When they didn't behave we packed them up and took them home rather than impose on others in public places. If more parents were responsible, then there wouldn't need to be discussions like this.

What an insufferable bastard you are. It's "ok" for someone to be irritated by your kids disrupting them while it's NOT acceptable for other people to ruin YOUR day? When did the Earth shudder as it began revolving around you? I guess you eliminated the need to wonder where douche bags come from.

Taking kids to a nice restaurant should be a lesson in good manners and proper behavior. I think it is unreasonable to expect a 2 year old or 4 year old to not lose patience at such a place, and that's usually when they act up. My son is 11. I take him to nicer restaurants around 2 and we practice the way to behave. Not that he doesn't behave at every place he goes, or at least he's expected to and deals with consequences if he doesn't. But at the nicer place we put the napkin on the lap, use the right forks, etc etc. 2 in the afternoon is perfect, they aren't busy from lunch or dinner. Once he gets it down, he's ready for a meal at a normal time.

Yes thats right Tim. You just don't like what I'm telling you. It's a free country and I will dine with my kids wherever and whenever I want. I'm a paying customer just like you. I've said my kids are well behaved but occassionally they do throw a tantrum. When that happens we leave. When people like Borac feel the need to shoot a dirty look at a kid (which by the way is none of his business) I feel the need to make him even more miserable. What is so wrong with that in your little world? A lot of people annoy me at a restaurant including people on cell phones but I don't feel they should be banned. I think people in this country have way too much time on their hands and feel the need to bitch and complain when things don't go their way. If anything everyone on this board could use a lesson in patience and better coping skills.

As a parent myself, this kind of parenting (or lack of it) bothers me to no end. There's a difference between being unable to control a child's behavior and not even trying to. Most kids, if you start early, will behave when you get serious with them. Yeah, some will have some melt-down moments no matter what but most cases of wild child in public were directly because the parent/guardian with them didn't even bother to tell them "Stop that. That's not acceptable behavior."

Sad thing is most of these parents just ignore the behavior. When they're small that's a lot easier to do than when they're a teen behaving the same way. I always shudder when I see an adult letting a toddler hit them because I see the future young adult doing the same thing to other people, only harder.

I'm teaching my kids a life lesson and that is not to let miserable impatient @!$%#heads like you ruin their day.

Judging by what you've written up here, you're showing kids HOW to throw a tantrum. And, if I am weird by YOUR standards -- YIPPEE!

BTW: (sic) means I repeated a mistake on purpose that someone else made.

ed- i will dine whereever and whenever i want with my kids.

uh, no you won't if they are under the age limit at mcdain's.

Amen! I spent plenty of meals in the car for a "time out" with my small children. I would never dream of ruining other diner's meals.

sebrad wrote:

"NEWSFLASH: WE DON'T ENJOY YOUR KIDS NONSENSE. DO YOUR JOB AS A PARENT AND CONTROL YOUR KIDS. IF YOU CAN'T, AND ARE OBVIOUSLY DISTURBING OTHER PATRONS, GET YOUR FOOD WRAPPED TO GO, PAY YOUR BILL AND LEAVE. JUST BECAUSE YOUR NIGHT IS RUINED DOESN'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO RUIN ANYONE ELSES."

I think I'll get that printed up on cards and just slip one onto their table next time I am forced to dine with parents that don't care how their children disturb others.

Agreed.

Assuming the food is good, I'd just as soon go with a restaurant that doesn't allow children on the weekends over another one with similar quality food if we were going to go out for a meal.

In my experience, the overwhelming majority of children are spoiled and ill mannered these days. What's amazing are the parents who seem to be completely oblivious to how annoying their children are and display a complete lack of care for how they act in public...as if the child is some kind of unimaginable burden and they're just tired of dealing with it.

Yes. If i lived in the area, I would be more likely to patronize that restaurant knowing that they cared about our dining experience.

My last visit to Chili's was a never again moment ruined by multiple unrestrained children running, screaming, climbing under other people's tables. At no time did management step in to curb the problem even though the servers were being impeded by the ruckus. I haven't been back in over two years.

Now if only children 6 and under were banned from obviously adult films, such as scary or violent, loud action films it would be a good day. Taking young kids to PG13 or R rated films is tantamount to abuse both to the children and the audience. No parental sense indeed.

Cat -- did you 'accidentally' kick any of the kids crawling under your table?

One of the worst movie viewings I ever had was the first LOTR. Just as it started a family with four older kids (12-16?) and one little guy -- maybe 4 -- came in and sat down right on front of me. That poor kidlet was totally freaked out and kept crying that he wanted to leave NOW -- especially when the orcs were coming out of the pit.

I moved shortly after they got there (thanks anyway, I don't want to be subjected to teenagers having a popcorn fight....) but hear this child crying the whole time. He probably had nightmares for months! Nitwit parents kept telling him 'it's ok, we'll go soon.'

::eyeroll::

I have seen some kids run wild, fortunately not often. But when that does happen, and my kids are along - it makes a great teachable moment. Often beginning with "Please do not EVER let your children run wild like that", and my kids watching the others' display in amazement.
When my youngest was only 12, we went to a store after soccer practice one evening - it was dark, about 6:30pm. There were a few kids, about her age and younger - outside a Target - on skateboards, and with who-know-what weirdos around. I asked, please do not ever let your children out at night in some commercial plaza, unsupervised - and this was readily agreed to.
I feel lucky my kids always seemed to want to behave with civility, but maybe that was the message they got early on?

@Cassandra - I often use these moments to teach my children also. I was at a department store a couple of years ago with my then 4 or 5 year old, and this other young child was running wild through the store, hiding in the clothing racks and being a general nuisance. My son looked at me and said, "it sure looks like he is having fun." I asked him if he really thought being naughty looked like fun, he looked at me and said, no I guess not, he is getting in the way isn't he. Now, he is 7 and when he sees kids misbehaving he is quite vocal about telling them and their parents that they are rude.

Children are children, and adults should act like adults. The problem isn't the parent, the problem is the adults, which expect to force their will on others. Misbehavior applies twice for adults. Looking at a child with fowl intent to get them to cry, is the legal definition of ASSAULT. It is against the law. If you want a quiet evening alone or with only your small group, have a dinner party. You go out into the public, that is what you get. THE PUBLIC.

If you want to travel without children get a FIRST CLASS TICKET, but the problem is you don't want to fork out a grand to fly in your own bubble.

If you force a child to fear you, you are not teaching manners or respect. YOU ARE FORCING YOUR CHILDREN AND OTHER CHILDREN TO NOT LIKE YOU. Your also teaching your children that force is alright so long as you have the power. I bet each parent who has forced their kids to behave with the force of punishment hasn't done their jobs of being a good parent, because your kids didn't learn crap. To teach, you must show a child understanding, and punishment for misbehavior is just teaching the children how to be drone. Children rebel against strict parents and can't become what they want, they become what their parents want and don't learn free will. Because their parents removed theirs.

That is why free thinking individuals don't become mirror images of their parents, and if your child is a mirror image your were too strict.

Try seeing parents with a small child (4 or 5 tops) in a stroller at a Hallowe'en themed amusement park event! The child is terrified and crying hysterically, mommy is laughing and saying "Its ok sweetie, it's not real" (poor kid sees a monster right in front of him, screw you mommy, THAT s*** is REAL) and the poor actors don't know what to do because they can't stop acting or they'll get into trouble, and there are people other than the child in the room.

I think people need to have a licence to breed, which you must complete a year long course in high school or college to receive and if you don't have a licence no kids for you.

That's great.

@Alison...are you and my husband related? his grandmother says that about herself when she was raising hers and now she says it about her grandchildren...lol

"If a parent feels the need to go to an upscale restaurant for a meal, get someone to watch your child."

I've taken my children to upscale restaurants for years with only a handful of times having to go out to the car because one was too loud. Why should I be forced to eat at cr*ppy chain restaurants if I want to enjoy a meal with my family? My kids know how to behave themselves.

If you want to avoid families, go dine "fashionably late". That's what we do when we want to enjoy a "date night" meal.

I see so your right to do what you want supersedes every other person in the place. You do realize they are all paying for dinner as well, don't you? When you chose to have children there were things you chose to give up until those children were grown. It's one of the sacrifices parents make.

Lady you're not only what's wrong with the restaurant/kid issue, you are what's wrong with the world.

Crimson,

Control your kids and we'll never have a problem. If your kid wonders over and starts bothering me and mine, then we will have a problem. mj @8.2 is correct-your rights don't supercede everyone else's. Besides, nowhere does it say you have a right to a dinner out anywhere-that's a choice, not a right.

And why should I adjust MY schedule to meet the needs of ignorant parents who REFUSE to control their kids?

Why should you have to eat at cr*ppy chain restaurants if you want to eat with your kids? Why should I have to eat dinner at 10pm if I want to guarantee a quiet and child-free meal? For gosh sakes, it's not a law banning kids from all restaurants, it's just one restaurant that wants to cater to a particular kind of clientele. Sometimes people, myself included, are in a fine mood to risk unruly children and will go to more lively restaurants. Other times we just want a guaranteed peaceful meal. Can't people like me have a few places???

Everyone is raving about what good parents they are or were, and of course no one is going to fess up to being one of the ban-worthy ones. Some of you are simply lying. Or embellishing greatly. Your exercise of discipline is appreciated, but all of your children can't possibly be perfect-behaving angels all of the time. Remember, you may exercise the discipline at some point, but the build-up to it (the kid whining, the kid starting to kick the chair, the reasoning with him to stop screaming) before you finally take him outside is annoying to other people. Kudos to you for eventually taking him outside, but everyone else in the place was cringing for the previous 10 minutes.

Wow, what a bunch of ego-centric comments here. How about understanding that there is no rule that parents have to forgo eating at nice restaurants with children for 18 years? Granted, there are poorly behaved kids out there. I get that. But with few exceptions my kids have never been loud in a restaurant, and have certainly never run amok in the dining room. We rarely go out to eat due to cost, but we like to eat at family restaurants (Olive Garden, Bugaboo Creek, etc) for certain special occasions. Never has anyone asked to be moved away from us, never once has anyone complained about our children. So why ban us when we've not committed a crime? Granted I don't know this restaurant, but what if others follow suit? You claim that this is a generation of problem children. Is this going to be the first generation to experience wholesale discrimination before proving themselves as adults? Because even if you blame the parents for the bad behavior, those parents aren't barred from any establishments, the kids are. What kind of message does that send?

You knew it was coming. Doctordonna has yelled "discrimination". And with her sense of entitlement that she probably has passed to her kids, I'm sure they are a hand full at restaurants. Just exercising their first amendment "rights" to do what they want I guess.

Wow, what a bunch of ego-centric comments here. How about understanding that there is no rule that parents have to forgo eating at nice restaurants with children for 18 years?

Actually, I believe the restaurant only banned YOUNG toddlers ... so your comment is hyperbole at the least. Second, your comment is a bit egotistical as well -- I'm sure you have the PERFECT toddlers who have NEVER, EVER annoyed another diner. Most likely, the other diners are too polite and have too good of manners to tell you. Or, just don't want to get into a shouting match.

No one is saying ban all children from all restaurants. But there is no reason why a few restaurants can't be out there for those who DON'T want to eat with children.

@doctordonna - two things, first, the ban is for children 6 and under, not all children, and second, it is not a family oriented restaurant like Olive Garden, it is an adult centered restaurant that has never offered a children's menu and 1/3 of their seats are in the bar.

How about understanding that there is no rule that parents have to forgo eating at nice restaurants with children for 18 years?

How about understanding that there is no rule that everyone else should have to put up with other people's kids during their meal?

Crimson Wife - "If you want to avoid families, go to restaurants "fashionably late". That's what we do when we want to have a child-free "date night" meal."

Unless you apparently don't go out so much anymore the "parents" that are the problem take their children out at any hour of the day or night. I've been out and stopped somewhere after a movie to have a few drinks and get something to eat and there were two tables with toddlers carrying on.....AT 11:00pm. It's a simple case that some people shouldn't be allowed to breed when they couldn't conduct themselves appropriately as adults and now they're having offspring equally as out of control.

My kids wouldn't be wandering over to your table because they know not to leave their seats unless they are holding my hand to go to the restroom or the exit. They also know to use their indoor voices and their "princess/knight" manners or I'll take them out to the car straight away. They're not perfect absolutely 100% of the time but I can get them out within a minute if I need to (as has very occasionally happened). And one time of being removed from a restaurant is a very effective deterrent against future problems.

It's really not all that hard to raise a child to behave himself/herself in public. And yes, that includes places like Ruth's Chris or Fleming's.

Nor is it difficult to NOT take young children out after 9pm when the adults would like some adult time. The restaurant in question has a third of the seating in the BAR. It was never intended to be a "family" place to go, hence the lack of the child's menu. You're missing the point. The people that are the problem take their kids out anytime of night. Either way any parent that is "banning" the busines and says they won't go there, YOU ARE RIGHT! You won't be going there with your kids.

As a parent of 2, I just won't patronize any business that has restrictions on children if my wife and I are having a date night.

Yes, we both have the same understanding that you do - that there are places where it's appropriate for the kids to come and there are others that it's not.

That said, an outright ban is offensive to any parent who has raised well-behaved children - or at least it is to us.

You know, you are absolutely right. Banning children because so many of them misbehave is offensive.

In fact, I think I always stop at intersections so we should just take down all of the stop signs and stop lights. I find them offensive. it's like saying I don't know how to drive. Because we all know everything is about ME. I'm offended. I think I'll write a letter to civil planning and complain.

Are you people serious? Grow up.

digitalnoise-

You need to grow a pair.

BarbaraB, I think you are spot on. Digitalnoise sounds like his wiffy keeps his nads in her purse and he only gets to see them when she wants to play with a set. Digatnoise- we dont love your kids the way you do. Does your wife let you ever go out and play with the other boys?

mj- what an ignorant comment. First of all, not all intersections have 4-way stops, so not everyone has to stop depending on which way that car is traveling. So if you always stop at intersections you could cause an accident because the person behind you is aware he has the right-of-way and rear ends you when you stop for no reason.

As a parent of 2, I just won't patronize any business that has restrictions on children if my wife and I are having a date night.

That's fine -- no one is forcing you to. Why should you force US to patronize a restaurant where there is a possibility of unruly children?

Yes, we both have the same understanding that you do - that there are places where it's appropriate for the kids to come and there are others that it's not.

There are way too many parents who DON"T "have that same understanding" -- and take their unruly kids anyway. Thus the ban.

That said, an outright ban is offensive to any parent who has raised well-behaved children - or at least it is to us.

Well, if it's offensive to you, don't go. Unruly children are offensive to us AND to other parents who have raised well-behaved children.

Digitalnoise,

If more parents had the same thought process that you and Jessica do, it would not be an issue. Obviously this is not one of those places that it is appropriate to take children, but there have been self-absorbed parents that can't be bothered with assessing the appropriateness of their restaurant choice, can't be respectful of other patrons and the business, and don't love/respect their children enough to teach them how to behave in public, that have caused problems. It is truly a shame that it has had to come to this point and that the well behaved few have to miss out because of the poorly behaved many.

I worked in a resort where one of the fine dining restaurants had a rule of no children under seven. Exceptions were made from time to time, but it was very rare, and for the most part, the youngest patrons were in their mid to late teens. The place was always packed and reservations had to be booked weeks in advance to get in. I think part of the appeal of the restaurant was that it was a quiet place to have a nice romantic evening or 'grown-up' get together. They probably gained more patrons than they lost because of the age restriction.

BarbaraB-810840

digitalnoise-

You need to grow a pair.

LOVE IT!

mj- what an ignorant comment. First of all, not all intersections have 4-way stops, so not everyone has to stop depending on which way that car is traveling. So if you always stop at intersections you could cause an accident because the person behind you is aware he has the right-of-way and rear ends you when you stop for no reason.

WOW.....someone is in dire need of a lesson on SARCASM. Talk about ignorant.

Digital, Good then there is more tables for us :-)

mj, hilarious. Hit's the nail on the head too. Everyone seems to be obsessed with their own self importance. It's all about "well I'm insulted". My usual answer to that is "tough".

digitalnoise, the restaurant discussed in the article is a bar that also serves food -- but it's still mostly a bar.

When you take your wife out on date night, do you sometimes go to bars? My wife and I do. Would we bring along our 2 year old...to a bar? Of course not!

If it offends you that a neighborhood bar owner has decided to ban young children, then take your business elsewhere. But I'm pretty sure the owner of the bar discussed in the article will see a healthy increase in business.

Note to parents: Bars are for adults. Just because they also serve food doesn't mean you should take your kids there! Take them to Chuck-e-Cheese or some place where they can have fun, and actually eat a kid's meal.

it's funny how some people confuse discipline with abuse...these same people are probably the bad parents with the unruly kids...

I'm so tired of hearing that CPS is going to be called if you try to discipline your child. Guess what - there are effective means of keeping a child in control without resorting to bodily harm. If you don't know what they are, then perhaps you should take a parenting class.

@princessbride: I'm sorry that you're tired of hearing it, but it is the truth. I've personally witnessed the police being called because a mother spanked (not BEAT, not INJURED, but spanked, with an open hand) her kid in the grocery store because the kid was throwing canned goods at other customers. She got the royal treatment all right - CPS showed up at her home within 2 hours and threatened to take her kid away from her, demanded she take down the child's trousers so they could photograph the "injuries" he surely suffered, etc.

It doesn't take a parenting class to know that some onlookers overreact and call the cops if a mother so much as gives her scions a harsh look these days.

If this mother had disciplined her child at home he would not have acted out in the store.

I think children(especially small children) should be banned from airplanes. I remember on one flight last year this child whined the entire first leg of my trip. When I looked back the mother was staring out of the window completely oblivious to her daughter's noise. She was so used to it that she had learned to tune it out. Sadly other's of us didn't have the same ability.

This is where parents forget that they are in a shared space and not in their living rooms.

Once you have a child with special needs, you have a whole new perspective on misbehaving children. Granted, probably more often than not, the misbehaving children are truly misbehaving but that's because there are no limits at home. But I have to say that I am not so quick to judge a misbehaving child in a restaurant or store because I don't know the full situation (a child's special needs are not always so obvious). My son does pretty well for the most part when out and about and we deal with it when he's not doing well. We certainly don't take him to fancy restaurants--what little kid would really want to be there anyway? Stores have gotten much, much better as he's aged and received help overall for his condition. I have actually had compliments on how well-behaved all 3 of my kids are in restaurants & in stores.

And that's another thing. If you notice a child being good in a situation, take the time to compliment the parents. You'll never how hard they may have worked to get the child to that point. It means a lot to them.

It's nice if you say something to the child(ren) as well. Something along the lines of what a fine little gentelman/lady they are & you thought that that was very nice.

Stop - A few times I had to leave a grocery because the kids were fussing - it only takes a few times, and you have to be strong enough to do it - then they learn that behavior isn't going to "work".
I am leery of a CPS fault on what you described - because the idea of a child so out of control that he is throwing canned goods at others - is a shocking symptom or something very wrong. That is an angry child, and sounds like an out-of-control parent who could use some advice. I've seen tv programs where cameras catch the abuse being dealt out to a child - appalling. No wonder they act like little monsters. People should get more involved - maybe there would be less Caylee Anthony type murders.

And that's another thing. If you notice a child being good in a situation, take the time to compliment the parents. You'll never how hard they may have worked to get the child to that point. It means a lot to them.

Actually, I agree with this and I do ... I also compliment the child.

I was actually dining out in Europe once, with some European friends. There was another American family in the restaurant with beautifully behaved kids. On the way out, I complimented the parents. They said that it was their first trip abroad with the kids (seemed to be older elementary age) and they weren't sure how it would work out -- but it had been well.

The funny part about the experience -- the puzzlement on the faces of our European friends when we did that. I explained how American children were very likely NOT to be well behaved and they where shocked -- that would NOT happen there. Either the kids were behaved, or stayed home.

I might also add, the restaurant was not one where they saw many Americans.

To say kids should be banned from flying is the most ridiculous thing you could ever say. First of all, everyone here once was a child, you were not perfect and you did go on vacation or went to see relatives far away. Yes it can be annoying to have a child under 3 on a plane but they don't know what is going on and you can not hold them responsible. This is not an ADULT world, there are kids in it as the world would end if there weren't children! A fancy restaurant is one thing but banning children from flying is ignorant and plain selfish. Does this mean I can ban rude adults that drink and get unrly on flight, or those that are plain rude and think they are the only ones there? People are selfish these days and feel they are the only ones that deserve everything and don't take into consideration other people. Be kind and I will be kind back. I think we all learned to share in kindergarten!! Don't judge and you will not be judged! UGH! I don't agree with misbehavior but I also don't agree to plain stupidity of adults that believe they deserve all and no one else should disrupt their beliefs, the world does not revolve around one person, we are all in it together!

@PaLLEN - you do realize it is possible to control your children without ever spanking them right? If you set ground rules at a young age and always stick to them, your children will grow up knowing what is right and wrong and what is acceptable and what is not without having to be spanked. My children are 7 and 9, have never been spanked, were each tapped on the mouth once around 7 months old when they bit my shoulder, and I am routinely told how well behaved and polite my children are and was actually asked last year by my youngest sons teacher if I would be willing to teach a parenting class.

abc, your every person was a child argument against banning them from airplanes holds no merit as not every person has flown on an airplane. i never have. it's not a right, it's a privelege and they can be revoked when abused. i really don't care either way about kids flying cause i don't fly though.

And that's another thing. If you notice a child being good in a situation, take the time to compliment the parents. You'll never how hard they may have worked to get the child to that point. It means a lot to them.

Absolutely! Also, if a child does something courteous, like holding a door open, PLEASE say "thank you" to the child. Positive reinforcement is a great way to help the parents instill the good behavior.

I had the cops called one day when I gave my son a smack on the backside, it got his attention. Some woman called the cops who met me in the parking lot and asked what happened I told him and that was the end of it. The ones who don't have kids always have all the answers on parenting. He never acted up in public again so who was right?

sfs--Parents of "special needs" children are generally more aware of their kids' behavioral limitations than your average Mom or Dad. Some of the more pleasant children I've encountered in public had "challenges". My ex-wife was a special education teacher, so I''ve pretty much seen how broad the spectrum runs.

We took our daughter (now 18) for her first "dining experience" at a restaurant whhen she was a month old and--throughtout her toddler years--had people stop by out table and say, "Jeez, I wish Junior was that well-behaved!"

For all you flyers--the first time I was ever publically ashamed of my daughter's behavior was on a transatlantic flight with her; I was traveling overseas to scatter my Mom's ashes. Close confienment and two-year-olds don't mix, but her crankiness didn't escalate into wailing and nobody complained or gave us the evil eye.

At the hotel, she threw a tantrum --the first I'd ever seen. I yanked off all her clothes and drenched her wih cold water in the shower. That got her attention.

I'm glad that the restauranteur made the decision to give some parents a wake-up call as well.

I think one Dr Phil quote is appropriate here.

"You're not raising children, you're raising adults."

Yes, you have different standards at different ages, but you don't smother and spoil and helicopter your kids and then kick them out into the world at university and say "here you, go, you're all set." Certain adult behaviours can be taught at a very young age, such as manners and public behaviour.

No, no child is perfect, nor any any of us deny having once been a child him/herself. However, I do remember as a child that I was expected to behave myself at home, with an indoor voice and no shoes on the furniture, and no colouring on the walls, and other proper behaviour. Then, when we went out into public, we were expected to advance our behaviour further. Now, children seem to be allowed to behave like hellions at home, and there is no difference in going out!.

And all this "don't stifle your kids, they'll be little robots" BS is exactly that - BS. Not every child in the world is going to grow up to be a star, a hero, a celebrity or a millionaire. Most are going to be worker bees and other cogs in the world. If you're spending their formative years teaching them to be the center of all things (just like the other 30 kids in their class, which just created hell for the teachers) imagine the fall you're setting them up for when their first job isn't as a CEO, and making 6 figures, like you taught them to think it will.....

There's nothing wrong with teaching a child to obey authority. Early on, it's the parent's authority, then the teachers, and ultimately the law. If you tell them they don't have to mindlessly obey, then what's to keep them from becoming sociopathic fools who steal and commit crimes. What are laws anyway, but more IMPORTANT rules? Teaching them to obey mom and dad, and behave in public is one step towards becoming a happy and productive citizen.

MJ

if they are unable to grow up, what kind of behavior do you expect from the offspring?

@ 10.16 Now on that we can agree. Adults set the rules and teach by example. If the adults don't learn to act with courtesy, respect, and self-control in public, how can we possibly expect kids to?

My husband and I did the same thing. The first time one of my sons made a fuss, they'd have to sit in the car with dad while the rest of the family finished their meal. Only happened once.

That being said, I also ask for the "no children section." I'm quite tired of parents who fail to control their children. I would be MORE likely to dine at a restaurant that banned children under 6.

A couple of months ago, I saw a man walking a small boy (maybe 3ish) out of Target. Small Boy was wailing loudly 'I DON'T WANT TO GO TO THE CAR!!' while his father told him -- calmly -- 'The way you're acting is why we're going to the car.'

I was ready to applaud!

If only more parents could understand that it just takes a few "removal" lessons, and their lives will be much easier. The kids do "get it" pretty quickly.

If only more parents could understand that it just takes a few "removal" lessons, and their lives will be much easier. The kids do "get it" pretty quickly.

I think a lot of the problem is self centered parents that can't be inconvenienced by interrupting their shopping or dining experience to teach their child a lesson. They however don't have a problem inconveniencing everyone else around them. Like someone said earlier....it's all a product of the narcissistic "it's all about me" society we've become. I truly wish I had been born a decade earlier....so I'd have less time left to experience society as it is today.

Why should I be forced to eat at a cr*ppy fast food joint just because I want to enjoy a meal with my family? My kids know how to behave, and I've only had to remove them for being loud a handful of times over the years.

Disruptive patrons (of whatever age) should be asked to leave. A blanket policy is outrageous.

Crimson Wife

Why should I be forced to eat at a cr*ppy fast food joint just because I want to enjoy a meal with my family?

No one is forcing you to do anything?

I've only had to remove them for being loud a handful of times over the years.

And how many patrons did they annoy during that "handful of times"? Face it, there are just some places little kids don't belong. They are NOT little adults.

And how many patrons did they annoy during that "handful of times"? Face it, there are just some places little kids don't belong. They are NOT little adults.

Beat me to it.

I can get them out in under a minute if I need to.

And if you want to avoid my family entirely, dine on the later side. We always go early so that we're in and out before the evening rush. It's usually just us and the old folks, LOL!

I don't care if I meet up with kids in a family oriented restaurant. But they DO NOT BELONG in one such as in this story. For their sake as well as the sake of other patrons.

Why is it that some people can't figure out the simple fact that children DO NOT BELONG EVERYWHERE.

Saw exactly the same thing in a restaurant a couple of weeks ago - it was so bad that another group with kids ACTUALLY requested seating AWAY from the first group.

This is TOTALLY on the parents, and it is because they totally IGNORE their kids.

Outrageous!!! And you didn't say anything?

I would have handed her my tab and told her next time watch your kid.

I agree with lisa, with the understanding that the mother will likely be defensive. I don't care. Let her be. Maybe having been the oldest child in my family made me never have a problem with talking to other people's children to behave, like a teacher might do in a classroom - with tact, if the parents are "out there". Kids are usually easy to talk to - and often know they should not be doing something. And sadly, they often just want ANYONE to pay attention to them.

Something I HATE seeing is a tableful kids sitting separately from the adults. I went into a Ruby Tuesday a few weeks ago and in the section where they were going to seat me, there was a tableful of kids -- maybe ages 4 to about 10 -- screaming, standing on the seats, throwing food at each other and the surrounding tables. About three tables over were two couples, completely ignoring the kids. Since they were the only two occupied tables in the section, I'm guessing it was their kids.

The hostess tried to put me next to the tableful of kids! 'Is this all right?' Absolutely NOT! What are you thinking? I was very definite about that and insisted on going to a different section. I'm also guessing from the stink-eye I got from the adults, those were their kids.

The hostess looked a little shocked, but we went elsewhere.

How dare the parents give YOU the stinkeye when they wouldn't even sit with their kids (if in fact they were their kids)

Did you read the article? It said this decision was made as a result of repeated customer complaints.

The managers job to ask them? I take it you think it's the schools job or the churches job or what ever entity it may be to raise your kids? Give me a break!That's the problem, asking others to do what should be done yourself! God Lord!

And yet, when somebody else finally DOES take some action, these worthless slug parents scream five kinds of murder about how somebody is interfering with their "rights" as a parent.

SpecialEd -- Yup, that's where you belong. You'll be an "old fart" someday, then this comment will come back to bite you in your old fart a$$.

@ SpecialED: People like you are a BIG part of the problem.

The problem with letting kids in and then ejecting the bad ones is that you have to wait for them to act up, ask the parents to please control them at least once maybe twice and then eject them. But they have already disturbed everyone else by this point. Better to nip it in the bud, or perhaps have one or 2 "Family nights" where kids are allowed.

SpecialEd- Be quit and get back in the corner. The short yellow bus will be back soon to take you home. Let the adults finish their conversations without you interrupting them.

Idiot.

Right, they're the parents watching FOX news and telling their kids that they're 'merican, and they can do whatever they want.

@ Goodlookinfella- in my experience, conservatives tend to believe in firm discipline and a "spare the rod, spoil the child" mentality. It's the "crunchy" set who believe in "positive discipline".

Funny, my experience is that it is the redneck slug kind (of ALL races), that is the ones who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves that are the the slug parents, you can spot them because they wear the trashiest loudest crap (per particular group - twenty gold chains and pants half off for blacks, nascar hats and harley shirts and big honkin' key chains for white and so on).

It is trash that is the problem.

I was thinking the same thing: the parents that read this are probably not the ones who don't parent their children.

I have two kids 6 and 8 and they are very well-behaved. However, we would never take them to an upscale restaurant. Some things are intended for only adults. There are plenty of restaurants to take them to that I would not put in the upscale category.

@ryoushi: Nice to know there are plenty of open-minded folks like you around, who don't judge someone solely on their appearance.

Crimson Wife - give me a break here...you are really saying that "conservatives" are better disiplinarians than "crunchies?" Ridiciculous. I know many conservatives that spank their children and their children are still brats. It is the follow-up that counts, not the rod vs positive disipline theory. Come on!

Well, around Atlanta it's usually the wealthy parents with the wild kids. Whenever we go to a restaurant in Virginia Highlands, there's almost always at least one table in the place with the adults either drinking and laughing amongst themselves or talking on their cell phones while their "angels" are running wild. These are the parents who subscribe to the "my child should be able to express him/herself at all times" train of (crap) thinking. And God forbid you should even think about asking the kid to stop stepping on your foot or Cassidy's Mommy will threaten a lawsuit.

The "rednecks" you refer to that live around here are more apt to pop their kid on the butt for acting up than anyone else.

I have two kids 6 and 8 and they are very well-behaved. However, we would never take them to an upscale restaurant. Some things are intended for only adults. There are plenty of restaurants to take them to that I would not put in the upscale category.

EXACTLY! Nuff said.