Is the "necessity defense" a valid defense in cases of attacks on abortion providers?

Do you consider yourself more sane than the person that committed this crime?

It's now 88.6% that thinks it is wrong. However, what is the difference between what that piece of scum did and if we kill him in retribution?

Maxxx

Please tone it down. This is the United States of America and we have due process of law FOR ALL.

As you point out, the defendant admitted the crime and that will speed up due process a bit.

Let's just hope that he was properly Mirandized before he confessed.

Lock him up and toss away the key! Oh, and do the same to anyone who comes out and supports this murderer!

I would

Beckie

Do you have a source that would tell us which women use abortion as birth control? I live in a depressed area, a city, and I can tell you that most of the women keep their babies.

I don't supposed you've ever had someone force themselves on you? Be thankful for that. If you actually expect a man to take responsibility for birth control I would encourage you to just say NO.

A fetus is not a child. It is evolving cell tissues.

Polls say that 95 % of all abortions are done as a matter of convenience. Becky, you are right.

Polls say that 95 % of all abortions are done as a matter of convenience

*SIGH* Is it really that hard to cite a source?

How about the Guttmacher Institute?

Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[9]

• The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.[8]

What polls? The ones shown by fox "news"? Abortion is not a valid first line birth control, and it is cost prohibitive to do it in such a way. Birth control pills have been around since at least the 70's, and are safe and effective. The fact is that sometimes a front line birth control method fails. Condoms break sometimes, and birth control pills cannot be 100% effective without causing harm to the woman using it. This isn't even taking into account rape. Abortion should only be used as a second line birth control method, and thats all I think any rational person would use it as. The problem comes in when religious zealots teach abstinence only programs, which cause more pregnancies from girls not having access to first line birth control methods. Overpopulation is also an issue to be considered. How many unwanted born children end up in foster care and put on ritalin and other amphetamine based drugs which rape their minds, leaving them shadows of their potential? Becky, for some reason I believe you capable of reasoning. A being is only truly alive when it can fear its own death. Pro-life is an inaccurate term, as we have seen. As the term "pro-abortion" has been thrown around recently, which is rediculously wrong, I suggest we start calling the zealots out on what they really are, Anti-Choice.

Meso, thanks for the information! I know this is a highly emotional issue for all of us, but it's important (for me) to know as many facts as possible. Since we all know that we can't believe everything we read, it's good to have objective sources.

I would challenge you to actually speak with someone who has been faced with the wrenching decision to have a late-term abortion. This is not a form of birth control. Rather, it is a last resort when severe, usually life-threatening abnormalities are discovered. For example, a fetus with sever hydoencephaly may have a head too large to be delivered vaginally. This same enlarged head means that a ceasarean incision will destroy the mother's uterus, making her unable to have other children. On top of that, the infant cannot survive. The coice offered her is to drain the fluid from the fetal skull and deliver the now-stillborn infant. This is the reality of late-term abortion. What would you have her do?

Hi United,

My pleasure! I like the Guttmacher because they have links to the original peer-reviewed articles where you can read how they got and analysed the data that supports their conclusions. Proper science shows study methods!

And thanks to Walla Walla for mentioning another reason for abortion, birth defects.

It's not all black and white. We all need to make our own choices!

"Polls say that 95 % of all abortions are done as a matter of convenience"

Real polls not fox, say the exact opposite.

at what point does a fetus become a child? could you explain that to me in medical terms that have research to back up your opinion?

Every woman deserves the right to decide what to do with her body. Denying women that right is equal to treating them like property as is done in Muslim countries. Every woman deserves freedom of choice. If you personally don't believe in abortion, you are entitled to your opinion. However, you are not entitled to allow others from having a choice.

Sorry, but if taxpayer dollars are used to supply men with Viagra, then they should also be used to fund abortions for women who want them.

Walla Walla

Dr. Tiller was a "severe life-threatening abnormality." In a profession that is sworn to save lives, he was destroying them.

Scott Roeder performed a public service, much like a cop who is compelled to shoot an armed aggressor. He should be honored for his heroism instead of tried for murder.

Dr Arthur,

I hear you, but when I saw the sonogram at 8 weeks for our first child, my heart melted. I took the picture to work and acted like a proud Papa. I'm not saying who is right or wrong, but the emotion was overwhelming.

scales67,

Why do they not make that decision before they are pregnant, instead of after they are pregnant? Freedom of choice is to prevent pregnancy not asking me to pay for an abortion. That is like not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle and then wanting the taxpayer to pay for rehabilitating you after an accident. Or smoking and then wanting the taxpayer to cure you.

the statistics on why women have abortions dont mean anything to me, I dont really care why....its their business not mine. This murderer on the other hand, he should fry for his unholy deed. No different than the Muslim fanatics, the Christian fundies just want an excuse to kill and feed the beast they have inside their hearts, while trying to hide that truth behind a veil of hypocritical sanctity.

Everyone who answered with yes is a Moron. Two wrongs still don't make a right. I also think that all the yes sayers are abotions that got away.

Beckie

I get very annoyed when women criticize other women for having an abortion.

ABORTIONS ARE LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES.

If you don't want one, the power to you to choose.

Signed - A WOMAN WHO BELIEVES IT IS NO ONE'S BUSINESS BUT HERS.

Jim from Tempe, AZ - spoken just like a man. Why is it solely the woman's responsibility to take measures to prevent a pregnancy if she doesn't want a baby? If the laws requiring men to financially support their offspring until adulthood were stricter, maybe you guys would think twice about not using protection.

Perhaps if the government were not so determined to provide Viagra to any man who wants it but can't afford it, a significant percentage of those abortions would be unnecessary. What else can we citizens expect though, considering that the country is run by men? There are worse things in life than not being able to consummate a relationship.

and to continue, Snipers and the military that are trained to kill the enemy. Shoud we take them out one by one because they may kill innocent women who may be pregnant? Where do we draw the line?

"and to continue, Snipers and the military that are trained to kill the enemy. Shoud we take them out one by one because they may kill innocent women who may be pregnant? Where do we draw the line?"

We only sniped 100,000 elected leaders in viet nam, [some pregnant] whats the problem???

I don't like you.

The truth hurts...HA!

Please disregard my previous comment. That is false, I do not dislike you. I dislike Tedd.

Birth control methods can never be 100% effective Becky, thats why abortion is a valid method, however not a first line method. It is no more murder than amputating a leg is. The cells of the leg are living, yes, as are the cells of a fetus. Abortion, like amputation, however unwanted, is sometimes necessary. No one wants to have an abortion the same way as no one wants to have an amputation.

What about rape or incest where the woman (or girl) has no control of the situation?

and remember...The Truth Sets You Free

Beckie

What YOU SEEM TO FORGET is the fact that IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS how other women think or believe. YOU ARE NOT GOD.

PERIOD.

Doesn't God say to take the sty out of your own eye before taking it out of another person's eye?

I suggest you go do that before posting any more nonsense on this board.

Polls say that 95 % of all abortions are done as a matter of convenience.

Please list source, your full of @!$%#. 94% of all statistics are made up on the spot and just come from people like you pulling a number out of their ass.

No, Skip it's 95% of Mother's use JIF

These zealots are just like Muslim extremists. No difference. They need to be greeted with the same force, too.

Skip's a troll. Read post 3.4 for some real information.

Polls say that skip is 95 % moron

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

here's the stats

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Reasons_for_abortions

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0904509.html

this states that only 13,000 abortions each year are performed because of rape.

in the year 2000 1.31 million abortions were performed in the US>

wow that is a lot of 'women's lives at risk' !!

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm

http://www.mrdata.net/books/9reasons.htm

this sit states that 4,000 abortions are perfomed each day in the us.

Shame on all those rapists!

just because the law does not consider abortion to be murder, does not mean it isn't

The death penalty is listed as homicide on a death certificate.

And, what is the difference between what this scum did and the people who would kill him in retribution?

Carmen

I am sooooo sad that you and BECKIE feel you are above it all.

If you don't want an abortion, DON'T HAVE ONE.

STOP criticizing others because YOU AND BECKIE ARE NOT GOD.

Please pray for forgiveness of your sins to the rest of us women.

Carmen

I am sooooo sad that you and BECKIE feel you are above it all.

If you don't want an abortion, DON'T HAVE ONE.

STOP criticizing others because YOU AND BECKIE ARE NOT GOD.

Please pray for forgiveness of your sins to the rest of us women.

Carmen-

"just because the law does not consider abortion to be murder doesn't mean it isn't"

In a nation of laws, which seeks law and order, it does. Your own morality may differ but the morality we share as a nation is defined by our laws. If every individual is free to put their own judgements above the law there is no nation of law. Don't like the law? change it. But don't say it doesn't apply to you.

The very reason a woman should be able to change her mind at any time about having some ones baby.

you are exactly right, it is not ONLY her baby, the man should have say also, as it is equally his.

Of course if she chooses to have it, suddenly he is required to support it.

but she can choose to kill it and he has no say in the matter. SHAME on our government and those women!

It sure is. It is also scary how these people label themselves as being part of the "moral majority" and all for "family values". If the belief that murder is anything but immoral is considered a "family value", I want no part of it. Some day, once society grows up and matures, we will look back at debates like this and be ashamed of ourselves.

And a larger percentage voted the other way. That's scary too.

Perhaps you would be happier if the protestors confined their peaceful protests in a dark basement in the wee small hours of the night with the shades drawn, too.

The reality of abortion is ugly, and apologists try to deny it's ugliness. At the close of WW@, when GI's entered the Concentration Camps, Ike ordered that all possible pictures be taken because "someday, some son-of-a-@!$%# will try to deny this ever happened." Sure enough, nations like Iran are trying to say the Holocaust never happened.

Now I'm not calling you a son-of-a-@!$%#, Jabber, but your demand that the pro-life crowd not show the truth because it is ugly, is not very American.

Just because something is legal according to the law does not make it right.

Our government is not the supreme authority on the law.

No God is the Supremene authority and he will judge....NOT you carment stay out of peoples personal business!

"Just because something is legal according to the law does not make it right.Our government is not the supreme authority on the law.

Actually, in this country the Governmant (law enforcement and the courts) are the authority of the law. Good luck convincing anyone otherwise. But if you break the law, you face justice.

Murder is illegal

Sorry, but abortion is legal. Its not murder in the eyes of the law. Dont like the law as written and enforced? Great, get enough people to vote it out that opportunity has always been there, you just havent been able to get it done.

Its called a Democracy, not a theocracy. Moral values do not trump the law. Its a fact.

And for those playing the 'god will get justice' when you die. Fine. The law on earth is that abortion is legal.

The doctor was scum to begin with. I would never go as far as to act upon my beliefs (murder), however, as a parent of twins that were born at 26 weeks, I can't fathom how late term abortion could ever be considered. Let alone, a doctor, whom is supposed to protect and save life, can perform late term abortions. My children are healthy now and fought to survive when they were born. THey didn't have a voice when they were born, but my babies, and all babies for that matter, fight to survive. Those that defend doing late term abortions, should also be 6 feet under. A baby doesn't have a voice yet, but the first two words when they do are (Da-Da or Ma-Ma). Pretty sad when you think about it.

"Just because something is legal according to the law does not make it right. Our government is not the supreme authority on the law."

Many convicted criminals living behind bars agree , I am sure...

so you are in effect saying that you believe God thinks abortion is ok?

We do not need to speak for God, the Bible does that.

Psalm 139:15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;

Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

Isaiah 49:1 Listen to Me, O islands, And pay attention, you peoples from afar. The LORD called Me from the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Moral values do not trump the law. Its a fact.

That is not factual for Christians. We believe the Bible is the Supreme Authority, and any man made law that goes against biblical principal is not to be followed.

But he is to be murdered?

"Thou shalt not kill"

What's so hard to understand about that?

Carmen, I think your religious values are more than a little skewed. Don't remember Jesus saying, "Kill those who don't believe as I do"....or worse, "Kill those who don't believe as YOU do"

I don't support abortion except in extreme cases...but I don't support murder, either.

Christians don't believe the Bible is the Supreme Authority...you do.

Christians believe that God is the Supreme Authority. And he said, "Judge not lest ye be judged"

It's religious zealots who make the life very difficult for the rest of us to be taken seriously. It religious zealots who corrupt the Word of God to fit thier every need.

and you are a parent? Late term abortions....are you for them? then you should have never been a parent.

Abortions period if the women chooses end of story.

Ridiculous...Why are you so closed minded to believe that your opinion is the right one and whoever disagrees with you is wrong. You may be surprised to learn that some of your closest friends and relatives had abortions. Will you shun them now? Maybe one of your children who struggles their whole life and is weaker than most is raped and chooses to end the horror. Will you be the one to judge her and say she must now also die?

My issue is late term abortion. Yes I have an issue. As a parent of preemies, I have very good personal reasons as to why. At 26 weeks old, my children fought to survive. They felt pain at 26 weeks. In the NICU, I saw 24 week old children that also felt pain. My view is correct. It's based on what I know an experienced. Late term abortion is nothing more than murder. Rape, misuse of birth control and the health of the mother, have nothing to do with late term abortion. They deliver everything except the child's head before killing the child.

He certainly deserved to die. He brutally murdered thousands of viable babies. Many late term perfect babies that would have lived if they had been born at that stage. If a woman gives birth and throws it in the garbage, we arrest her for murder or say she has a mental problem. But legally she can pay an abortionist to kill her baby at that same age, as long as the head is crushed and the brain sucked out, and its arms and legs dismembered IN the womb, it is legal. He was a sicko. A greedy murdrer with no respect for human life.

Lemmiflip

If people should not force their views on others, then any jury should not force their opinion on any defendant.

Most criminal cases are "The People vs John Doe."

carmen---God will judge you for passing judgement on her and bring you to justice for "SLACKING" in not talking to people about alternatives and prasing people for murdering others...Shame on you!

God will not be so slacking in serving justice for her killings.

Your problem is you believe in the Spaghetti Monster and how is that working out for you?

carmen has proved, she is mental... plain and simple

Yup, the fact people believe in the Spaghetti Monster pretty much sums up all that is wrong with the world.

Carmen, How arrogant, and blasphemous, of you to presume to know the mind of God.

I have a question...

How can something that doesn't exist have a mind? Furthermore, how can someone who bows before something that doesn't exist have a mind?

JT ....

Yes, I'm still paying for your unemployment benefits either way, but you are a moron.

I have a severly disabled son and two daughters adopted from an orphanage. I have certainly not been slacking in telling others their options. I offered to take the twins, and she still killed them. I have volunteered at my local pregnancy support center many times. YOU are judging by saying I am slacking at efforts to educate others.

I have not passed any judgment on her. The bible says murder is wrong, her own actions have judged her. The Bible says we will know people by their fruits. Her fruit is murder.

Hey Ridiculous-

I'm the moron for not believing in a fairy story and not using fairy stories to justify murder! Now that's a laugh!

And, I absoluely gaurantee that make more money in an hour than you make in week...but if ever I decide to take advantage of getting unemployment insurance...that's my right under something called THE LAW.

Ridiculous is a good name for you. I couldn't help but notice that you chose to respond but didn't answer my question....hmmmmm....